Tiling in Gnome is the best. Specifically - popOS gnome. Its tweaked and works flawless. I tried it on ubuntu - it sucked. Gnome definitely is not the best from other perspectives, but, for productivity, popOS tiling does incredible job making windows management really great.
Aaand Chris, please… You - buddy - grab a glass as well, for even LXDE does better job than any Windows or OSX I've tried XD But i agree with heavy heart on principalities in assigning to GOAT tier; waiting for that KDE 6 to mature into lightweight, or LXQT to reach customizability of KDE 5.27 :)
If KDE team spends a few rounds just fixing all the bugs and crap instead of shoving more features just for the sake of it, I believe it would beat everything else by far.
I agree with this. Plasma is gorgeous and all the features and options are pretty nice, but it's always felt pretty buggy and messy when I've used it. KDE is very capable of taking a break from adding features for a while to just focus on cleaning it up and making it nicer to use for normal people.
KDE is like the game City of Heroes. The dev team behind each spent all their time creating customization parameters and then seemed to run out of gas after that. In the case of the game, the game content isn't there. And in the case of KDE it's the tools. I'm finding I've no choice but to do so much more CLI simply because there's either no tool to do something or what's provided is terrible (ie. Discover).
Can't wait for WM tierlist and another tierlist series from Mister Titus, I really like the way he explains why even he ranked it based on his personal experience
It's just his personal opinion and carries no real weight. I don't like pizza, but you declare pizza the GOAT of foods. See what I mean? I have seen others make tier lists with varying opinions. It's individual, which is the entire point. Not that you do, but don't let others decide for you, including this guy.
I don't think XFCE receives even remotely the amount of love it deserves. It does have its limitations and quirks. However, if you want a DE you can dress up nicely but you want it to stay out of the way of your workflow, then XFCE is the DE for you. Definitely my top tier DE.
I used XFCE for years; I stopped using it when I got a 4k monitor because it handled HDPI awfully back then. I don't know how it is now but it was very broken a few years ago.
@@ruadeil_zabelin it's a lot better i use it currently on a two seperate 4k monitors dual booting it with linux mint and endeavourOS kde and after a bit of setup (mainly cause of two monitors) xfce works fine
I've always liked Gnome. I even paid for Ximian Desktop! I really like Gnome 40 but I have to agree with you, the developers are very stubborn and having to add features, which are often basic like desktop icons through extensions, realy sucks!
Ximian + gnome 2 were completely different beast! I liked (and used) those too, today Mate and XFCE are somewhat more similar to Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is nothing like it.
When it comes to the laptop workflow, nothing compares to Gnome - the trackpad gestures are quite simply unbeatable. It's nowhere near as nice as KDE when it comes to desktop use though sadly.
@@miguelguthridgeye, I use Gnome on my laptop: best experience I've ever had on that thing. Sadly you're kinda forced to install extentions to enable even basic functionalities like background apps. It's definitely great on a laptop and I'd probably even use it on desktop, but it sucks that so many functionalities are walled behind external extentions.
I love KDE from a technical side, it is the only GUI to fully integrate GTK and QT properly without bullshit. But I hate it's performance. It's pretty slow. Enlightenment is pretty nice tbh. But you sacrifice all compatibility.
KDE is incredibly polished. All I can say is avoid the temptation to theme it too heavily. You can get to a point where it's next to impossible to go back to stock, and to unbreak what you broke 😅 Stock and unsullied? It's pretty stunning, and can be surprisingly performant, considering the amount of functionality hiding in there. GNOME 2 is the original goat though. R.i.p that's my homie *pours 40oz of OE 800*
I installed Cinnamon with Debian 12, and it is rock solid and stable. It provides everything I need. In the past I did lots of distro hopping, but I am over that. I just got tired of breaking things and the frustration of having to reboot or reinstall stuff. What I want now is something that just works and that I don't have to be updating every day. Debian 12 with Cinnamon gives me that.
12 shades of grey. Why are they all grey? I really miss Aero Glass, it had contours, and depth, and buttons felt like buttons and UI elements would glow, so beautiful. Luckily I do have a soft spot for LXDE/LXQt, because it looks so retro - like Windows 2000. :P
I feel like Gnome is really a "love it or hate it" DE. I'm personally in the hate it category because it's just not my cup of tea. Probably the most polished of all the DEs, definitely the most cohesive. It's also the "standard" on Linux, if you can call it that. I'll probably run Cinnamon until X11 becomes a chore.
I agree. I love Gnome, but at the same time I can see why other people hate it. It's different and the team has a vision of how they want it, but without extensions there is almost no customisability, and they aren't afraid to break extensions if it brings them closer to that vision.
KDE is god tier, Titus, there's no perfect DE even windows has its flaws (windows 11 I'm looking at you), but dang it, KDE never let me down, yes it crashed once or twice, but that was because of my stupidity and ignorance of editing system files. Out of the box, it's just perfect
Wow I discovered KDE today thats why watching this. I will try it now. I'm a LXDE and xfce person, I hope I don't have any regrets on installing kde on my desktop
@@John14vs6_ if you do it right you'll be good, though if you plan to install kde next to other DEs it was always a bad experience (not with kde, but miximg up DEs in general). I always suggested to everyone to do separate installs for the DEs they like, else they might end up with a messy qt and gtk combo. Since I'm a main KDE user myself, I use openSUSE Tumbleweed, because they natively have superb compatibility and support to one another
@@Automata_Omega wow I was having some issues trying to figure out how to change the brightness for my monitor was about to install xfce here but thank God I did not as you just mentioned it's not a good idea. I managed to download a third-party app and it work did not have do install anything. So wow I must say this is the best DE I have used I feel like I'm in windows or something more futuristic it's out of this world not even Gnome made me feel this way or windows 11. I will keep this DE and I hope I don't experience any more bugs especially when I install pyspark and other programming apps. I'm a Lxde lover by the way. Thanks for replying
Personally, Cinnamon is now average for me. The lack of Wayland support is really dragging down the distro. How much longer will Cinnamon users have to wait!?
That and the Mint bugs like allowing background apps to repeatedly grab focus, 'always on top' doesn't work and the mouse pointer won't stay set across applications.
Using core Debian with KDE and I've been really happy with it. Glad I decided simply go core Deb and use something I've always really liked, which was KDE. Just works and is very customizable. Highly recommend!
@@patricknelson Yeah, it is. Very stable even on an older Ryzen laptop. Had to mess with C-States, but I found one that worked perfectly without going into full performance mode. Only had one freeze since I did that, but other than that, it's been smooth as silk. Can't go wrong with Debian, in my opinion!
@@TaikenUchida41 That's a fair concern. Although, some are being opened up more these days, but I can tell you, at least for me, there was only one piece of hardware I had to let go for Linux. A video capture device that I wasn't even using anymore, from Elgato. Other than that, it's been a great. A few dumps in the road due to older mesa drivers for gaming on Vulkan, but using Proton on Steam or Flatpaks has helped greatly to mitigate that.
@@KanokYT Yeah. I'm thinking of installing it on my old machine, so there shouldn't really be a problem as long as things are in line with where the system currently is. One question for you: is there a difference in the way Apt works with Ubuntu and Pop.OS compared to Debian?
I am using infact using Gnome without any extensions. I just feel comfortable with it. I have tried KDE but it just has too many features for me to wrap my head around. I get lost using that DE more often than not. Gnome is simple and just easy to use. Though I would say a good tier list overall.
I was going back and forth with GNOME and xfce for nearly 10 years and finally tried cinnamon on Debian edition which impressed me with polish and intuitiveness.
Cinnamon to start with for people migrating from Windows, KDE for better customization at the cost of more likely encountering bugs and less polish but still decent performance, XFCE for old hardware and that's pretty much all you need to know to get started.
I agree that there is not a perfect DE. I'm glad that there are choices to fit the different things that people like. I currently like how ZorinOS has adapted Gnome.
Nicely presented Mr. Titus. I do agree in that I like portions of desktops. I tend to hover in Arch with I3WM these days for the daily driver. My Goat would be Arch if I were placing.
Gnome does not install extensions through the browser anymore, it uses the extension manager app. (still has the web browser as an option though, I think)
Agree... but KDE is better (for an amateur user) than all others (I used Cinnamon for long time, and Gnome too)... it is lighter and faster than Cinnamon and has more features... I am using Kubuntu btw...
10 years ago I would have been 100% Gnome and insulted anyone that used KDE. Those were good times. But have to agree Gnome hasn't improved in all that time and arguably it's gotten worse - whereas KDE you can really make your DE look absolutely sensational. If I want a "pretty" DE I go for KDE If I want barebones but functional then I go for Cinnamon or MATE.
Really content with the gnome setup I use, not sure if it's extensions and what not but the guy who makes my theme is legit. It's definitely a Mac Clone a little more streamlined since it's on Arch. Have used a lot of Linux UIs nothing has come close imo. Once I get it setup I'm not really going to go around exposing myself to more extensions.
One month linux newbie here. Try both Gnome and Cinnamon from long-term win background back to version 3.11, Both are damn easy, easier than even win 7 8 10, 11. Prefer Gnome as you can pin app on top left side and can access it immediately when boosting Linux (Ubuntu style). I think I will stick to that. Very solid Ubuntu 24.03 LTS so far, not a single crash! Don't dual boot win11 with Ubuntu anymore. Get rid of Win 11 yesterday after solid Ubuntu/Gnome desktop. Imagine about 30 years of win experience and very familiar with it inside out, still prefer Ubutu/Gnome right now. If daily computing for one month without a crash, I am sure that my decision to abandon win11 is correct. Cinnamon looks like win but I prefer Gnome due to its ease of use.
years back, last time when I was messing with Linux distros, Linux Mint Cinnamont and Mate, and Manjaro KDE and Xfce were fine, I see no big changes since then... appreciate you didn't put any among GOAT tier as there really isn't perfection yet
The Deepin DE picture is misleading. It's been ages since they switched their design, It's not even related to the picture anymore, I'm not saying it's great or so (moreover it's buggy af), but the judgement is also outdated and not fair either.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but having tried all of these, I actually approve of all those ratings :O. Writing this from a customized xfce desktop. I'd say I would have put cinnamon as the goat, but it had some showstopper bugs on my system that were just not bearable for me. XFCE tho - just rocksolid, yet less exciting.
Xfce is for a bad/old hardware computer pr laptop Gnome is made for laptops KDE is made for desktop computers Eachone is made thinking of a specific system, it really depends on what you have. That being said, kde is by far the most customizable and my beloved one.
Essentially most are ok. Xfce is the best for those who value stability more and it can be made to look decent. Unity had the most interesting design choices, maybe not for everyone but it had fans both among so called 'powerusers' and 'newbies'. Personally I liked it. Plasma is nice. Something always feels a little wrong though, usually little details. The same is even more true for Gnome Apps (not the shell, which looks nice at least).
Garuda Gnome has given me by far the best experience ive had on my Nvidia gpu and I am about to test Garuda Cinnamon because it has the performance of gnome but a nice smooth interface that performs better in some ways. Looking forward to changing permanently soon.
MATE all the way here .. on Debian.. for YEARS. What else does a computer user need? I wouldn't like it if they moved the steering wheel, gear shifter, blinker, brake pedal in my car. I don't like my DE to change much either. But then, I just upgraded to a Haswell box like last year in 2022, so that tells you how I roll. Yes, Haswell.
My experiencewith the DEs is why I never stick with Linux. I feel like all desktops look like they are made by fisher price or something. Like the off brand windows/Mac. Perhaps I need to sit down and figure out a timing window manager.
Lxqt is much more versatile than you might expect. Though it's default is openbox, you can switch to any window manager very easily and completely change the desktop.
I'm still a noob; that means, of course, that I haven't tried but two DEs, GNOME and KDE Plasma. I like how much less complicated it is to customize Plasma, but I'm okay with GNOME. I've got it looking and functioning the way I want it to, and what more does a desktop environment have to do than that?
Yay, DEs. I usually default to XFCE for everyday. I like LXQt for my older machines. KDE is nice to look at. I remember Cinnamon, it's also nice but a bit heavy (or used to be).
sorry if I'm making a mistake but chris put Gnome DE to dogwater category just because you can install extensions with your web browser? if thats the case , there is also an app that has the browse function built in the app so you dont have to switch between the app and your browser
It's unfortunate that most of the major Linux distros don't agree with this and ship GNOME by default, and that so many Linux applications depend on GTK, meaning they will tend to look like GNOME regardless of what you run them on...
LXDE really isn't an environment... It's Openbox with a unique taskbar and they still maintain the very good LXTerminal... LXQT is much more embedded as an operating system
I have two requirements of my DE: 1. Utilizes the "every physical screen is it's own virtual desktop" paradigm - do you have ANY idea how much of a godsend this is for an office environment where you frequently need to unplug and replug your laptop due to activity based office bs? 2. Supports proper tiling, I don't really care if it is grid based or percentage based though I have a slight preference for percentage based. Even Windows has quarter grid tiling FFS! Everything else, I am happy with the default Gnome experience, and in Gnomes defence it is the most rock solid wayland experience you can get at the moment.
Tbh i used to use and love dwm and i used it for the better part of my linux journey but it was the time when i was home during the lockdown and now i am in college pursuing cs degree and i find it hard to take some time out and configure my wm. Whenever i tried to do something productive i got succumbed into customising my wm more than doing anything useful. I was the full arch dwm guy but now i just installed fedora and with gnome i have been more productive than ever! You know sometimes there is freedom in having a de that doesn't let you customisze everything and gives you room to be productive
I don't like the look and feel of modern Mac much nor did I ever used Mac OS at all. But Pantheon desktop is the most beautiful desktop ever for me. Nothing else comes even close to being so close to perfect to my design preferences. Too bad it's way too simple and lacking in features plus I don't elementary OS as a distribution. They try a lot and I love their goals and design choices, but they just don't have the team to do this all good.
I seem to live in the GNOME bubble 😜and actually am really excited to use it daily and on all of my systems. 😇 Currently, I only use Pano as an extension. I appreciate some of the other DEs and WMs too though.
UNITY IS GOAT Seriously. I love that DE. One of Ubuntu’s critical errors was to dump Unity in favor of cUsToMiZiNg GnOmE … 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
exactly nothing is perfect, but local ^^ GNOM is the closest from design perspective and my brain architecture, but I will design my custom OS and desktop environment in future for sure
EndeavourOS customization of XFCE imo is perfect, that is how i want my XFCE to look on all my other XFCE installs. Linux mint XFCE is also amazing. Im interested in hearing what other distros come with a beautiful XFCE install?
07:20 I'm very curious what would be your PERFECT desktop environment that you would put on the GOAT tier without any hesitation. How would it look like, how would it work, what features would it need to have, etc. Because I very often see people complaining about existing solutions, but they rarely talk about their dream solutions. Which makes me think that this might be the reason that such dream solutions don't exist yet - because no one is dreaming about them :q
I love Mint you recommended for me. I am not doing a lot of stuff and it is really smooth. + I do not need to do a "lot" line commands. Makes me happy. For me the best OS is the one I do not have to think about. OS needs to be in background and let me do everything I need to with ease.
@@kurtm.7494 People like it because it's simple, has an actually sane customisation out of the box (looking at you GNOME), it's pretty similar to Windows in terms of user experience and it's very stable.
KDE 3.x has been resurrected as Trinity Desktop Environment, and is used by Q4OS as their lightweight desktop. I played around with it some, but didn't feel like chasing down all the apps I want on a system. But I love the old-style icons and the system speed even on weaker machines.
I love XFCE. Even though people think it's ugly, if you're just a normal user like me, have a few programs on it and needs the basics covered, stable and lightweight it's very good :) I also like gnome as well but it confuses me to do basic stuff every now and then and I hate friction when it doesn't give me benefits :(
I mean this as respectfully as possible, but Gnome extensions are just cope. Extensions are mostly used to add what I consider to be basic functionality, and they often break on a new Gnome version
I'm a brand new linux user fresh out of the water and I went with mint's XFCE right out of the gate. I've been messing around with different windows-like distros on virtual machines for about a month and mint XFCE just jived with me the best out of all of them. I like that it's so lightweight and still very familiar to a windows slave- I mean _user_ like myself, and it's still highly customizable so I can finally escape the super flat UI pandemic that's been wreaking havoc on the tech industry for years now without using an ancient OS with more security holes than a block of swiss cheese.
Forget about everything else and do this. Pick Debian or Arch. Use Gnome or KDE if you want a full DE. (XFCE is okay too) Use i3 or sway if you want a window manager. Don't waste your time with all the other stuff.
Can't really disagree. Fedora/Rhel could be a consideration (even in the current climate) and NixOS as a more "exotic" distro. But when it come to GUIs... its way better to go with the "popular" ones.
I mostly agree - though I'd say Fedora with GNOME for less technically capable users. Otherwise, Debian with GNOME unless they have a good reason to use a different DE or know what they're doing and want to use Arch.
@thatmg man its been like 3 days searching for the perfect resource optimized distro with gnome, i been a fan of kde and now i wanna try gnome, i know am gonne dislike it anyways, can you pick me a distro and a DE please
I usually just stick with KDE because I've used it so long that I know where every little tweak and setting is. I like trying out different ones but everytime I do, I can't figure out how to do something that I already know how to do in KDE and end up going right back to it.
KDE is my favorite as well, particularly for further customizing custom-built computers. The broad spectrum of customization allows me to replicate the desktop experience of another OS like Windows or macOS - and if something goes wrong during that extensive customization, there’s always the option of reverting it all back to the Breeze theme and trying a different approach.
For like half the video I was like: where's gnome??? Then you moved it out of the black background 😅 I absolutely love modern Gnome, both the DE and the apps. For me, personally, it is the best UI experience I had on any OS ever. I don't like having tons of options available, my mind can't handle visual clutter, and I like having one very direct path to doing stuff. My problem with most modern apps is that the UI is usually cluttered and full of stuff I don't use, and somehow gnome makes it look cleaner and simpler. Like there's a lot of gnome apps that do one single thing, and nothing else. That's perfect to me.
Yeah. I respect Titus's more customization-based viewpoint but GNOME is by FAR the best default UI I've ever seen. It's faster, smoother, more complete, and more simple/cohesive than Windows, Mac, Chrome, or any other Unix-like DE I've used.
@@MarianeSimas-lo6hn I see where you're coming from but I love the big buttons. Especially on a touchpad it helps with wrist comfort and preventing strain because you're not trying to click a tiny button restricted to the bottom of the screen. On keyboard/mouse setups I really don't mind, it's not like I'm trying to do anything else while I launch an application so its fine for it to take the whole screen. It just makes things easier to see.
I like gnome, the deepin is kinda borked on Arch, fedora with Gnome is nice but I agree it needs more polish. Maybe when the new version of plasma comes out or the cosmic from popos gets released, you can revisit them and let us know 😊
Actually broken. The prompt to put in a password is blurred out for some reason. Thank god I tried it in a VM first. At first I thought it was Debian not liking it, but on the Arch install it was also the same haha. Same for Budgie and Pantheon. They're pretty specific and unless you do a bunch of extra work to make it work like in their respective distros, is just not worth the hassle.
I'm switching to Linux from MacOS once I get my Framework laptop in a few months. I use Amethyst on my mac so I'm a little tempted to go straight into a window manager on Linux- would love to see a window manager tier list!
Chris, can we please stop using the "old school" argument once and forever? Not all old things are bad by default. I personally am a MATE user and with some cautious use of Compiz and Emerald it gains some wow factor and it's perfect for my workflow. Years ago I jumped from Windows to Fedora Gnome 2 and was astonished from both Linux and the DE (who would have thought that doing the "Applications", "Places" and "System" separation is a God sent?). Lived through the Gnome 3 catastrophe, then moved to Mint because of MATE (great appreciation to the MATE team for their work). Tried WMs, other DEs and I always prefer the "old school" which still has quite the punch as a workflow organization and in case someone is looking for the WOW factor. I might admit though, Compiz is quite of a mess of settings for a new user. Takes some struggle to achieve smooth experience but once done, export the settings and have them forever as a file.
Pretty accurate. KDE is almost GOAT. KDE has come a long way so maybe GOAT is in the future. GNOME has also come along way but by moving down the tier list. :) Budgie is good too and I almost migrated to it when Unity was EOL but I'm happy I went with KDE instead.
The problem with Cinnamon is most of what they call "applets" don't work properly. For example their applet CPU frequency always has bug or freezes the computer and such for years now. They still offering it but they don't fix it. Gnome extensions have so many choices that you will find several that are working pretty well. Only problem is when you upgrade your system, sometimes you need to wait that those who are responsible for the extensions update their extension to the new gnome. LXDE is always solid. If you just need a basic DE, go with LXDE. That being said, Gnome with some extensions like dash to panel, arcmenu and a CPU controller is the GOAT. (NB I really dislike KDE. I have never tried Budgie, it looks pretty nice.)
@@cameronbosch1213 LXDE is not dead. Only Lubuntu has changed from LXDE to LXQt, it doesn't mean it is dead. LXLE still use it since it is built around that DE. Also Debian and Manjaro are offering LXDE as an option for a DE. I tried KDE, but was often buggy (and it seems many had that same experience) and honestly, it doesn't look solid and even aesthetically it looks a bit cheap. lol
The newer GNOME 43+ releases have been really good to me personally, I only use a couple if extensions (AppIndicator & Vitals) but yeah I know what you mean when it comes to that. I'd recommend you give it another shot, the simplicity and emphasis on workspaces is really slick. I'm able to multitask really well with it, even on a laptop
Just installed Debian Bookworm for the first time, with Cinnamon, following your guide (about "installing a proper way"). Battling my way through a multichannel soundcard, successfully so far. Getting ready for my first lamp stack installation. Have a nice day, bless you! Root login is way more snappier for me though, I wonder why. (Not gonna stick to it, just wonder what do I kill and remove.)
I did a similar install, and I want to like Cinnamon... but it's pretty bad for the games I've been playing. The stuttering I was getting in games with Cinnamon disappeared when I installed Gnome starting using it instead. I like the look and feel of Cinnamon and KDE, but they just aren't as performant in games (Cinnamon) or as stable (KDE) as Gnome.
@@ordinaryhuman5645i actually have a reverse experience with games, Linux Mint cinnamon has "more" FPS with proton in Risk of Rain 2 (24-30 fps) than any other distro I tried (8-15 fps). Because of this massive avg fps drop, I switched back to windows, unfortunately. There's many other issues also that made me switch.
I would still put KDE above the other 3 for the reason that xfce and cinnamon do not have Wayland support, and budgie is undeceive on what they want to do
OTOH, I gave up on KDE a couple of weeks ago because it'd freeze up within a minute of logging in when the only thing I had opened was a web browser with a single tab open. Cinnamon has not done that to me yet.
@@tuckersguitarfiasco not sure what this provides as a plus. Wayland is the future display protocol, and as soon as everyone moves to that, the sooner apps/services etc will get better.
@@ordinaryhuman5645 If it did not worked for you (KDE) it did not. and if Cinnamon works it does. There is no correct or wrong. I had a similar experience with Cinnamon Mint 2-3 month ago actually :D. For the love of mew, I could not understand what was going wrong
@@John7No Yeah, maybe the KDE spin of Fedora was just not a good fit for my setup or something. Kind of a shame, because I liked it until it started freezing up on me. Cinnamon (with Debian or Mint) was consistently great for typical desktop usage, but not great for gaming. So far Gnome is the only one that seems to be stable and performs well with most of the games I play.
I think it depends mostly on whether you prefer the Win 7 look (Cinnamon, KDE, Budgie, Mate), or the Mac look (Deepin, Elementary), or the old-school Linux look (Gnome, Unity, XFCE). Personally, I'd have made the video in 3 separate sections and rate Win7-like desktops, Mac-like desktops, and "other" desktops.
Man I'd love a wm tier list from you. You explain your experiences and knowledge on this software pretty well. If you ever do it I hope you include minimal hyprland compositors like sway and Hyprland. Here's to hoping!
yup this is the current state of linux distro... underwhelming, knowing mac and windows are superior these days for personal use and most of work operations :(
Lol "It installs extensions through the browser", you clearly haven't used GNOME in a VERY LONG time, last I checked that's just one way of installing them. AND there's a flatpak Extension Manager that addresses all the issues you pointed out.
Even tho I absolutely love GNOME(switched to it after years of using a window manager) your point is fair. The thing about GNOME is that it is really not meant to be used with a bunch of extensions(except a few, and also now GNOME is sort of moving to installing extensions trough flatpaks but that is way in the future). There is a specific philosophy and a way to use gnome in its purest form. Once you get used to it (for me at least) it is actually good. The problem with GNOME is that people try to use it as any other desktop environment with their past knowledge of Windows or Mac way of doing things. GNOME requires brief learning(honestly 15 minute video is enough) after which it is so easy to be a poweruser in it. Once you switch majority of your apps to be with gnomes philosophy you will start noticing that it all makes sense. But GNOME is not for everyone nor are window managers for everyone.
KDE Plasma is my favorite DE, but I recently set up a home server on a very slow old Dell laptop with Alpine and decide to give SWAY WM a try. Having never used a window manager before, it definitely took a little time digging into config files and such, but I see why a lot of people prefer the aproach of building up a system that way; adding your bar and launcher of choice and adding only the utilities you want as opposed to being stuck with / cleaning up all the default tools that come along with a desktop environment. So far so good 👍🏻
Yeah. Plasma 5 is a little lighter on RAM usage than Gnome, but it's a bit heavier on the CPU. It doesn't run as well on really slow CPUs. Tested using CPU autofreq at 800 MHz.
As an Aussie, TIL that it's not Ubuntu Mate (as in G'day Mate), but Ma'te or whatever French sounding abomination you're saying. I'm sticking with mate. Matttteeeeeeeee. Straya.
A tierlist about desktop environments while using a window manager, sounds about right :P I'd love to see a tierlist for wms honestly, that'd be pretty fun.
I doubt if Gnome fits on a tier list. It's the default on some really big distros, and some people love it. Other people (like me) would only use it if the alternative were Mac OS. As a Brit might say, it's like Marmite (and an Australian would say, Vegemite). But it's great you didn't split the difference and call it average, because that is definitely what it is NOT.
This is exactly it. It's totally different from all the others that use the standard cascading menu layout, so something this different is bound to elicit extreme opinions. I'm in the 'love it' camp :)
@@michaelwright2986 I like it because you can get to what you need very quickly, and the rest of the time it gets out of the way, no clutter. I spend a fair amount of time in the CLI but I don't think that's really a factor.
Can you pin my comment reminding people to stay hydrated?
Tiling in Gnome is the best. Specifically - popOS gnome. Its tweaked and works flawless. I tried it on ubuntu - it sucked. Gnome definitely is not the best from other perspectives, but, for productivity, popOS tiling does incredible job making windows management really great.
!Hydrate
I will drink to that!
Aaand Chris, please… You - buddy - grab a glass as well, for even LXDE does better job than any Windows or OSX I've tried XD
But i agree with heavy heart on principalities in assigning to GOAT tier; waiting for that KDE 6 to mature into lightweight, or LXQT to reach customizability of KDE 5.27 :)
Thank you I definitely needed to hear this...way too much coffee lately
If KDE team spends a few rounds just fixing all the bugs and crap instead of shoving more features just for the sake of it, I believe it would beat everything else by far.
But that's not "cool". Don't fix what's broken, ignore it and push 'pretty'. "Somebody else" will fix the real issues.....yeah, right.
I agree with this. Plasma is gorgeous and all the features and options are pretty nice, but it's always felt pretty buggy and messy when I've used it. KDE is very capable of taking a break from adding features for a while to just focus on cleaning it up and making it nicer to use for normal people.
Almost every app I installed in KDE fails the first time I launch it then runs the next?
they also have a few redundant apps. honestly I love the KDE ecosystem but c'mon just work on one app for the job
KDE is like the game City of Heroes. The dev team behind each spent all their time creating customization parameters and then seemed to run out of gas after that. In the case of the game, the game content isn't there. And in the case of KDE it's the tools. I'm finding I've no choice but to do so much more CLI simply because there's either no tool to do something or what's provided is terrible (ie. Discover).
Can't wait for WM tierlist and another tierlist series from Mister Titus, I really like the way he explains why even he ranked it based on his personal experience
It's just his personal opinion and carries no real weight. I don't like pizza, but you declare pizza the GOAT of foods. See what I mean? I have seen others make tier lists with varying opinions. It's individual, which is the entire point. Not that you do, but don't let others decide for you, including this guy.
I would love to see a WM list as well
Would have to have enough tierlist to have a tierlist of tierlists
bspwm on top lol
Me too, despite using BSPWM, i don´t find any difference with i3, dwm or even xmonad
I don't think XFCE receives even remotely the amount of love it deserves. It does have its limitations and quirks. However, if you want a DE you can dress up nicely but you want it to stay out of the way of your workflow, then XFCE is the DE for you. Definitely my top tier DE.
I used XFCE for years; I stopped using it when I got a 4k monitor because it handled HDPI awfully back then. I don't know how it is now but it was very broken a few years ago.
@@ruadeil_zabelin I don't have a 4K monitor so unfortunately I can not tell you it's gotten better.
@@ruadeil_zabelin it's a lot better i use it currently on a two seperate 4k monitors dual booting it with linux mint and endeavourOS kde and after a bit of setup (mainly cause of two monitors) xfce works fine
XFCE it's intended to be the old hardware choice, it's pretty good too me.
@@raxsgamer It's a great DE for old hardware, it consumes less resources and gives life to otherwise retired machines.
I've always liked Gnome. I even paid for Ximian Desktop! I really like Gnome 40 but I have to agree with you, the developers are very stubborn and having to add features, which are often basic like desktop icons through extensions, realy sucks!
Ximian + gnome 2 were completely different beast! I liked (and used) those too, today Mate and XFCE are somewhat more similar to Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is nothing like it.
4:37 as of gnome 44, you no longer need the browser to install extensions, as there is now a desktop GUI dedicated to doing so
App tray icons back in Gnome 44 without the need for extension? No? K, 10x, bye and see you at the next release Gnome!
For a laptop, raw GNOME is great if you just succumb to the workflow and don't try to turn it into a traditional floating window DE.
When it comes to the laptop workflow, nothing compares to Gnome - the trackpad gestures are quite simply unbeatable. It's nowhere near as nice as KDE when it comes to desktop use though sadly.
@@miguelguthridgeye, I use Gnome on my laptop: best experience I've ever had on that thing. Sadly you're kinda forced to install extentions to enable even basic functionalities like background apps. It's definitely great on a laptop and I'd probably even use it on desktop, but it sucks that so many functionalities are walled behind external extentions.
I almost use my laptop as desktop replacement.. i don't bring lap anywhere...
Gnome is like MacOS. The developers assume they know more than you about what you want. Not a fan.
100%. Only extension I run with it is Pop_OS!'s tiling shell, and those on a laptop are amazing for me
I love KDE from a technical side, it is the only GUI to fully integrate GTK and QT properly without bullshit. But I hate it's performance. It's pretty slow.
Enlightenment is pretty nice tbh. But you sacrifice all compatibility.
KDE is incredibly polished. All I can say is avoid the temptation to theme it too heavily. You can get to a point where it's next to impossible to go back to stock, and to unbreak what you broke 😅
Stock and unsullied? It's pretty stunning, and can be surprisingly performant, considering the amount of functionality hiding in there.
GNOME 2 is the original goat though. R.i.p that's my homie *pours 40oz of OE 800*
Mate is pretty much a more up-to-date Gnome 2.
I installed Cinnamon with Debian 12, and it is rock solid and stable. It provides everything I need. In the past I did lots of distro hopping, but I am over that. I just got tired of breaking things and the frustration of having to reboot or reinstall stuff. What I want now is something that just works and that I don't have to be updating every day. Debian 12 with Cinnamon gives me that.
12 shades of grey. Why are they all grey? I really miss Aero Glass, it had contours, and depth, and buttons felt like buttons and UI elements would glow, so beautiful.
Luckily I do have a soft spot for LXDE/LXQt, because it looks so retro - like Windows 2000. :P
KDE Plasma can do that.
I feel like Gnome is really a "love it or hate it" DE. I'm personally in the hate it category because it's just not my cup of tea. Probably the most polished of all the DEs, definitely the most cohesive. It's also the "standard" on Linux, if you can call it that. I'll probably run Cinnamon until X11 becomes a chore.
I agree. I love Gnome, but at the same time I can see why other people hate it. It's different and the team has a vision of how they want it, but without extensions there is almost no customisability, and they aren't afraid to break extensions if it brings them closer to that vision.
KDE is god tier, Titus, there's no perfect DE even windows has its flaws (windows 11 I'm looking at you), but dang it, KDE never let me down, yes it crashed once or twice, but that was because of my stupidity and ignorance of editing system files. Out of the box, it's just perfect
Wow I discovered KDE today thats why watching this. I will try it now. I'm a LXDE and xfce person, I hope I don't have any regrets on installing kde on my desktop
@@John14vs6_ if you do it right you'll be good, though if you plan to install kde next to other DEs it was always a bad experience (not with kde, but miximg up DEs in general). I always suggested to everyone to do separate installs for the DEs they like, else they might end up with a messy qt and gtk combo. Since I'm a main KDE user myself, I use openSUSE Tumbleweed, because they natively have superb compatibility and support to one another
@@Automata_Omega wow I was having some issues trying to figure out how to change the brightness for my monitor was about to install xfce here but thank God I did not as you just mentioned it's not a good idea. I managed to download a third-party app and it work did not have do install anything. So wow I must say this is the best DE I have used I feel like I'm in windows or something more futuristic it's out of this world not even Gnome made me feel this way or windows 11. I will keep this DE and I hope I don't experience any more bugs especially when I install pyspark and other programming apps. I'm a Lxde lover by the way. Thanks for replying
Personally, Cinnamon is now average for me. The lack of Wayland support is really dragging down the distro. How much longer will Cinnamon users have to wait!?
Cosmic DE will probably come out before cinnamon gets a wayland edition lol
That and the Mint bugs like allowing background apps to repeatedly grab focus, 'always on top' doesn't work and the mouse pointer won't stay set across applications.
@@no_name4796 And that's a huge problem in 2023.
Wayland is buggy, slow and stuttery for me anyway
@@kennybust Nvidia GPU? Which one?
Using core Debian with KDE and I've been really happy with it. Glad I decided simply go core Deb and use something I've always really liked, which was KDE. Just works and is very customizable. Highly recommend!
Sounds like bliss. Rock solid reliable underlying OS and super customizable DE.
@@patricknelson Yeah, it is. Very stable even on an older Ryzen laptop. Had to mess with C-States, but I found one that worked perfectly without going into full performance mode. Only had one freeze since I did that, but other than that, it's been smooth as silk. Can't go wrong with Debian, in my opinion!
The only thing I worry about with Debian is the risk of free driver compatibility issues with certain hardware (ô_ ô)
@@TaikenUchida41 That's a fair concern. Although, some are being opened up more these days, but I can tell you, at least for me, there was only one piece of hardware I had to let go for Linux. A video capture device that I wasn't even using anymore, from Elgato. Other than that, it's been a great. A few dumps in the road due to older mesa drivers for gaming on Vulkan, but using Proton on Steam or Flatpaks has helped greatly to mitigate that.
@@KanokYT Yeah. I'm thinking of installing it on my old machine, so there shouldn't really be a problem as long as things are in line with where the system currently is.
One question for you: is there a difference in the way Apt works with Ubuntu and Pop.OS compared to Debian?
IMO, I think a lack of focus and a lack of a goal is what made Linux so short.
I am using infact using Gnome without any extensions. I just feel comfortable with it. I have tried KDE but it just has too many features for me to wrap my head around. I get lost using that DE more often than not. Gnome is simple and just easy to use. Though I would say a good tier list overall.
I was going back and forth with GNOME and xfce for nearly 10 years and finally tried cinnamon on Debian edition which impressed me with polish and intuitiveness.
Cinnamon to start with for people migrating from Windows, KDE for better customization at the cost of more likely encountering bugs and less polish but still decent performance, XFCE for old hardware and that's pretty much all you need to know to get started.
I agree that there is not a perfect DE. I'm glad that there are choices to fit the different things that people like. I currently like how ZorinOS has adapted Gnome.
Nicely presented Mr. Titus. I do agree in that I like portions of desktops. I tend to hover in Arch with I3WM these days for the daily driver. My Goat would be Arch if I were placing.
Gnome does not install extensions through the browser anymore, it uses the extension manager app. (still has the web browser as an option though, I think)
Agree... but KDE is better (for an amateur user) than all others (I used Cinnamon for long time, and Gnome too)... it is lighter and faster than Cinnamon and has more features... I am using Kubuntu btw...
10 years ago I would have been 100% Gnome and insulted anyone that used KDE.
Those were good times.
But have to agree Gnome hasn't improved in all that time and arguably it's gotten worse - whereas KDE you can really make your DE look absolutely sensational.
If I want a "pretty" DE I go for KDE
If I want barebones but functional then I go for Cinnamon or MATE.
Really content with the gnome setup I use, not sure if it's extensions and what not but the guy who makes my theme is legit. It's definitely a Mac Clone a little more streamlined since it's on Arch. Have used a lot of Linux UIs nothing has come close imo. Once I get it setup I'm not really going to go around exposing myself to more extensions.
One month linux newbie here. Try both Gnome and Cinnamon from long-term win background back to version 3.11, Both are damn easy, easier than even win 7 8 10, 11. Prefer Gnome as you can pin app on top left side and can access it immediately when boosting Linux (Ubuntu style). I think I will stick to that. Very solid Ubuntu 24.03 LTS so far, not a single crash! Don't dual boot win11 with Ubuntu anymore. Get rid of Win 11 yesterday after solid Ubuntu/Gnome desktop. Imagine about 30 years of win experience and very familiar with it inside out, still prefer Ubutu/Gnome right now. If daily computing for one month without a crash, I am sure that my decision to abandon win11 is correct. Cinnamon looks like win but I prefer Gnome due to its ease of use.
Also, no privacy at all at Windows.
years back, last time when I was messing with Linux distros, Linux Mint Cinnamont and Mate, and Manjaro KDE and Xfce were fine, I see no big changes since then...
appreciate you didn't put any among GOAT tier as there really isn't perfection yet
I always just do XFCE, I love the performance
Linux is the best for low resources laptop's.
I use it right now Linux Mint very good Distribution.
The Deepin DE picture is misleading. It's been ages since they switched their design, It's not even related to the picture anymore, I'm not saying it's great or so (moreover it's buggy af), but the judgement is also outdated and not fair either.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but having tried all of these, I actually approve of all those ratings :O. Writing this from a customized xfce desktop. I'd say I would have put cinnamon as the goat, but it had some showstopper bugs on my system that were just not bearable for me. XFCE tho - just rocksolid, yet less exciting.
XFCE looks great on Linux Lite. The only reason i keep coming back to that distro. Even though it's not Lite anymore.
kde is not heavy at all. It has actually been shown to be lighter than xfce several times
Xfce is for a bad/old hardware computer pr laptop
Gnome is made for laptops
KDE is made for desktop computers
Eachone is made thinking of a specific system, it really depends on what you have.
That being said, kde is by far the most customizable and my beloved one.
Essentially most are ok. Xfce is the best for those who value stability more and it can be made to look decent.
Unity had the most interesting design choices, maybe not for everyone but it had fans both among so called 'powerusers' and 'newbies'. Personally I liked it.
Plasma is nice. Something always feels a little wrong though, usually little details. The same is even more true for Gnome Apps (not the shell, which looks nice at least).
Garuda Gnome has given me by far the best experience ive had on my Nvidia gpu and I am about to test Garuda Cinnamon because it has the performance of gnome but a nice smooth interface that performs better in some ways. Looking forward to changing permanently soon.
The only DE that does even worse than Pantheon in being a bad Mac clone is Windows 11.
MATE all the way here .. on Debian.. for YEARS. What else does a computer user need? I wouldn't like it if they moved the steering wheel, gear shifter, blinker, brake pedal in my car. I don't like my DE to change much either. But then, I just upgraded to a Haswell box like last year in 2022, so that tells you how I roll. Yes, Haswell.
My experiencewith the DEs is why I never stick with Linux. I feel like all desktops look like they are made by fisher price or something. Like the off brand windows/Mac. Perhaps I need to sit down and figure out a timing window manager.
Windows XP would like to know your location.
You can change the look of many Linux DEs to look like you want it; even Windows and Mac versions via themes.
@@marck0060 I'm sitting down and facing front. -- Ted Stryker, Airplane!
Lxqt is much more versatile than you might expect. Though it's default is openbox, you can switch to any window manager very easily and completely change the desktop.
I'm still a noob; that means, of course, that I haven't tried but two DEs, GNOME and KDE Plasma. I like how much less complicated it is to customize Plasma, but I'm okay with GNOME. I've got it looking and functioning the way I want it to, and what more does a desktop environment have to do than that?
Yay, DEs. I usually default to XFCE for everyday. I like LXQt for my older machines. KDE is nice to look at. I remember Cinnamon, it's also nice but a bit heavy (or used to be).
lxqt here too 👍
sorry if I'm making a mistake but chris put Gnome DE to dogwater category just because you can install extensions with your web browser?
if thats the case , there is also an app that has the browse function built in the app so you dont have to switch between the app and your browser
It's unfortunate that most of the major Linux distros don't agree with this and ship GNOME by default, and that so many Linux applications depend on GTK, meaning they will tend to look like GNOME regardless of what you run them on...
LXDE really isn't an environment... It's Openbox with a unique taskbar and they still maintain the very good LXTerminal... LXQT is much more embedded as an operating system
i agree that all have improvement to make. if i had to pick which ones i like best, though, it would be cinnamon and kde
I have two requirements of my DE:
1. Utilizes the "every physical screen is it's own virtual desktop" paradigm - do you have ANY idea how much of a godsend this is for an office environment where you frequently need to unplug and replug your laptop due to activity based office bs?
2. Supports proper tiling, I don't really care if it is grid based or percentage based though I have a slight preference for percentage based. Even Windows has quarter grid tiling FFS!
Everything else, I am happy with the default Gnome experience, and in Gnomes defence it is the most rock solid wayland experience you can get at the moment.
Tbh i used to use and love dwm and i used it for the better part of my linux journey but it was the time when i was home during the lockdown and now i am in college pursuing cs degree and i find it hard to take some time out and configure my wm. Whenever i tried to do something productive i got succumbed into customising my wm more than doing anything useful. I was the full arch dwm guy but now i just installed fedora and with gnome i have been more productive than ever!
You know sometimes there is freedom in having a de that doesn't let you customisze everything and gives you room to be productive
good one .. let's have one on using any Window-manager with an proper customized setup..
Could you suggest a desktop env that doesn't attempt to replicate the Windows and macOS interfaces, and is especially lightweight?
I don't like the look and feel of modern Mac much nor did I ever used Mac OS at all. But Pantheon desktop is the most beautiful desktop ever for me. Nothing else comes even close to being so close to perfect to my design preferences. Too bad it's way too simple and lacking in features plus I don't elementary OS as a distribution. They try a lot and I love their goals and design choices, but they just don't have the team to do this all good.
I use MATE and it does have some short comings that can be annoying but it is easy on the eye and isn't bogged down with too much unnecessary bloat
I hate Gnome's policy of not giving a shit about customization. XFCE all the way.
I’m loving the new tierlist series
I seem to live in the GNOME bubble 😜and actually am really excited to use it daily and on all of my systems. 😇 Currently, I only use Pano as an extension. I appreciate some of the other DEs and WMs too though.
Deepin is beautiful but it's new and still being refined.
If Xface is over Gnome this Review isn't serious. Just kidding, Angry-Gnome-Fan here. Great Video, thanks for your opinion
The greatest of all times is off course Windowmaker. Stable and goog looking :)
UNITY IS GOAT
Seriously. I love that DE. One of Ubuntu’s critical errors was to dump Unity in favor of cUsToMiZiNg GnOmE
…
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exactly nothing is perfect, but local ^^ GNOM is the closest from design perspective and my brain architecture, but I will design my custom OS and desktop environment in future for sure
EndeavourOS customization of XFCE imo is perfect, that is how i want my XFCE to look on all my other XFCE installs. Linux mint XFCE is also amazing. Im interested in hearing what other distros come with a beautiful XFCE install?
I want someone to make a desktop environment that makes chris actually start using it for a long time lol
Cinnamon is the one that feels like home to me
4:06 Gnome is terrible for desktop, but for mobile is my favourite
07:20 I'm very curious what would be your PERFECT desktop environment that you would put on the GOAT tier without any hesitation. How would it look like, how would it work, what features would it need to have, etc. Because I very often see people complaining about existing solutions, but they rarely talk about their dream solutions. Which makes me think that this might be the reason that such dream solutions don't exist yet - because no one is dreaming about them :q
I love Mint you recommended for me. I am not doing a lot of stuff and it is really smooth. + I do not need to do a "lot" line commands. Makes me happy. For me the best OS is the one I do not have to think about. OS needs to be in background and let me do everything I need to with ease.
it is, but no wayland support and multiple workspace management is sub par compared to gnome
@@kurtm.7494 What do you testing now?
@@herald1953wayland is shit and buggy though. It’s still years away from being suitable for a machine you cannot do without.
@@jaopolonio5726I've been enjoying the kde over gnome . Feels more windows and everything in one nice spot
@@kurtm.7494 People like it because it's simple, has an actually sane customisation out of the box (looking at you GNOME), it's pretty similar to Windows in terms of user experience and it's very stable.
its KDE Plasma for me.
KDE has come a looooong way. so if the trend continues this could be the one.
KDE 3.x has been resurrected as Trinity Desktop Environment, and is used by Q4OS as their lightweight desktop. I played around with it some, but didn't feel like chasing down all the apps I want on a system. But I love the old-style icons and the system speed even on weaker machines.
I love XFCE. Even though people think it's ugly, if you're just a normal user like me, have a few programs on it and needs the basics covered, stable and lightweight it's very good :)
I also like gnome as well but it confuses me to do basic stuff every now and then and I hate friction when it doesn't give me benefits :(
My only gripe with XFCE is that it's not gonna have wayland support anytime soon, as Xorg is getting deprecated soon.
for Gnome, there is an extension manager app that can be used for extension sesrch and installation. it doesn't have to be done through a web browser.
I agree, and several extensions can be downloaded directly through the terminal.
What's the name of this app?
@@kazsm9666 it's called "Extension manager". you can find it as a flatpak.
"Extensions Manager".
I mean this as respectfully as possible, but Gnome extensions are just cope. Extensions are mostly used to add what I consider to be basic functionality, and they often break on a new Gnome version
I'm a brand new linux user fresh out of the water and I went with mint's XFCE right out of the gate. I've been messing around with different windows-like distros on virtual machines for about a month and mint XFCE just jived with me the best out of all of them. I like that it's so lightweight and still very familiar to a windows slave- I mean _user_ like myself, and it's still highly customizable so I can finally escape the super flat UI pandemic that's been wreaking havoc on the tech industry for years now without using an ancient OS with more security holes than a block of swiss cheese.
Yes and it can look very good with some nice dark theme and different icons
I did not realize my comment was _that_ long.
@@WASTOIDSUPREME Lol. Im so lazy, i read your sub comment but not your main comment
@@rushikeshmalave8063 Lol I'm guilty of doing that all the time
Forget about everything else and do this.
Pick Debian or Arch.
Use Gnome or KDE if you want a full DE. (XFCE is okay too)
Use i3 or sway if you want a window manager.
Don't waste your time with all the other stuff.
Can't really disagree.
Fedora/Rhel could be a consideration (even in the current climate) and NixOS as a more "exotic" distro.
But when it come to GUIs... its way better to go with the "popular" ones.
I mostly agree - though I'd say Fedora with GNOME for less technically capable users. Otherwise, Debian with GNOME unless they have a good reason to use a different DE or know what they're doing and want to use Arch.
DUDE I AGREEEEEEEEE SO MUCH
@thatmg man its been like 3 days searching for the perfect resource optimized distro with gnome, i been a fan of kde and now i wanna try gnome, i know am gonne dislike it anyways, can you pick me a distro and a DE please
I don't like i3. I don't get the point of having a manual tiling manager. I like auto-tilers. It fits my workflow much better.
For me, GNOME is The Goat. Plus, you don't have to install extensions through the browser anymore, and can use the Extension Manager flatpak.
agree
@heinz5034 I think the gnome layout is better then the windows layout even if it feels like a tablet
what I was going to say!
Yeah I think Chris did not use Gnome in a long time, that's why.
KDE the best
I usually just stick with KDE because I've used it so long that I know where every little tweak and setting is. I like trying out different ones but everytime I do, I can't figure out how to do something that I already know how to do in KDE and end up going right back to it.
KDE is my favorite as well, particularly for further customizing custom-built computers. The broad spectrum of customization allows me to replicate the desktop experience of another OS like Windows or macOS - and if something goes wrong during that extensive customization, there’s always the option of reverting it all back to the Breeze theme and trying a different approach.
For like half the video I was like: where's gnome??? Then you moved it out of the black background 😅
I absolutely love modern Gnome, both the DE and the apps. For me, personally, it is the best UI experience I had on any OS ever. I don't like having tons of options available, my mind can't handle visual clutter, and I like having one very direct path to doing stuff.
My problem with most modern apps is that the UI is usually cluttered and full of stuff I don't use, and somehow gnome makes it look cleaner and simpler.
Like there's a lot of gnome apps that do one single thing, and nothing else. That's perfect to me.
Can’t agree more here. I do most of my everything in terminal when possible ... I like to maintain as a simple of a toolset as I possibly can ...
Yeah. I respect Titus's more customization-based viewpoint but GNOME is by FAR the best default UI I've ever seen. It's faster, smoother, more complete, and more simple/cohesive than Windows, Mac, Chrome, or any other Unix-like DE I've used.
@@MarianeSimas-lo6hn I see where you're coming from but I love the big buttons. Especially on a touchpad it helps with wrist comfort and preventing strain because you're not trying to click a tiny button restricted to the bottom of the screen. On keyboard/mouse setups I really don't mind, it's not like I'm trying to do anything else while I launch an application so its fine for it to take the whole screen. It just makes things easier to see.
my personal tier list would be:
S: KDE, LXQt
A: Cinnamon, GNOME, XFCE
B: Unity, Mate, Deepin
Haven't tried: all the other ones
I like gnome, the deepin is kinda borked on Arch, fedora with Gnome is nice but I agree it needs more polish. Maybe when the new version of plasma comes out or the cosmic from popos gets released, you can revisit them and let us know 😊
Actually broken. The prompt to put in a password is blurred out for some reason. Thank god I tried it in a VM first. At first I thought it was Debian not liking it, but on the Arch install it was also the same haha. Same for Budgie and Pantheon. They're pretty specific and unless you do a bunch of extra work to make it work like in their respective distros, is just not worth the hassle.
What disgrace to put Gnome lower then KDE, Windows bugs lover some sort. Gnome technically is best of all of rest presented desktop environments.
I'm switching to Linux from MacOS once I get my Framework laptop in a few months. I use Amethyst on my mac so I'm a little tempted to go straight into a window manager on Linux- would love to see a window manager tier list!
Chris, can we please stop using the "old school" argument once and forever? Not all old things are bad by default. I personally am a MATE user and with some cautious use of Compiz and Emerald it gains some wow factor and it's perfect for my workflow. Years ago I jumped from Windows to Fedora Gnome 2 and was astonished from both Linux and the DE (who would have thought that doing the "Applications", "Places" and "System" separation is a God sent?). Lived through the Gnome 3 catastrophe, then moved to Mint because of MATE (great appreciation to the MATE team for their work). Tried WMs, other DEs and I always prefer the "old school" which still has quite the punch as a workflow organization and in case someone is looking for the WOW factor. I might admit though, Compiz is quite of a mess of settings for a new user. Takes some struggle to achieve smooth experience but once done, export the settings and have them forever as a file.
Gnome is great for laptops, especially 2n1’s plus the pop shell has great tiling
Exactly, would never use it on my desktop, but GNOME x Wayland on my work laptop is such a blessing.
It’s super buggy when i tried to install it on linux mint cinamon
Does anyone know the reason or what should i do?
@@Belomoh6it's cause pop shell is abandonware. Pop is focusing on cosmic DE at this point
Pretty accurate. KDE is almost GOAT. KDE has come a long way so maybe GOAT is in the future. GNOME has also come along way but by moving down the tier list. :)
Budgie is good too and I almost migrated to it when Unity was EOL but I'm happy I went with KDE instead.
The problem with Cinnamon is most of what they call "applets" don't work properly. For example their applet CPU frequency always has bug or freezes the computer and such for years now. They still offering it but they don't fix it.
Gnome extensions have so many choices that you will find several that are working pretty well. Only problem is when you upgrade your system, sometimes you need to wait that those who are responsible for the extensions update their extension to the new gnome.
LXDE is always solid. If you just need a basic DE, go with LXDE.
That being said, Gnome with some extensions like dash to panel, arcmenu and a CPU controller is the GOAT.
(NB I really dislike KDE. I have never tried Budgie, it looks pretty nice.)
LXDE is dead. LXQt is the successor of it.
I really do like KDE Plasma; I don't understand the stability issues...
@@cameronbosch1213 LXDE is not dead. Only Lubuntu has changed from LXDE to LXQt, it doesn't mean it is dead. LXLE still use it since it is built around that DE. Also Debian and Manjaro are offering LXDE as an option for a DE.
I tried KDE, but was often buggy (and it seems many had that same experience) and honestly, it doesn't look solid and even aesthetically it looks a bit cheap. lol
The newer GNOME 43+ releases have been really good to me personally, I only use a couple if extensions (AppIndicator & Vitals) but yeah I know what you mean when it comes to that.
I'd recommend you give it another shot, the simplicity and emphasis on workspaces is really slick. I'm able to multitask really well with it, even on a laptop
Just installed Debian Bookworm for the first time, with Cinnamon, following your guide (about "installing a proper way"). Battling my way through a multichannel soundcard, successfully so far. Getting ready for my first lamp stack installation. Have a nice day, bless you!
Root login is way more snappier for me though, I wonder why. (Not gonna stick to it, just wonder what do I kill and remove.)
is your user in the video group?
I did a similar install, and I want to like Cinnamon... but it's pretty bad for the games I've been playing. The stuttering I was getting in games with Cinnamon disappeared when I installed Gnome starting using it instead.
I like the look and feel of Cinnamon and KDE, but they just aren't as performant in games (Cinnamon) or as stable (KDE) as Gnome.
@@ordinaryhuman5645i actually have a reverse experience with games, Linux Mint cinnamon has "more" FPS with proton in Risk of Rain 2 (24-30 fps) than any other distro I tried (8-15 fps). Because of this massive avg fps drop, I switched back to windows, unfortunately. There's many other issues also that made me switch.
I would still put KDE above the other 3 for the reason that xfce and cinnamon do not have Wayland support, and budgie is undeceive on what they want to do
that is the reason why I like XFCE is because it doesn't support Wayland.
OTOH, I gave up on KDE a couple of weeks ago because it'd freeze up within a minute of logging in when the only thing I had opened was a web browser with a single tab open. Cinnamon has not done that to me yet.
@@tuckersguitarfiasco not sure what this provides as a plus. Wayland is the future display protocol, and as soon as everyone moves to that, the sooner apps/services etc will get better.
@@ordinaryhuman5645 If it did not worked for you (KDE) it did not. and if Cinnamon works it does. There is no correct or wrong. I had a similar experience with Cinnamon Mint 2-3 month ago actually :D. For the love of mew, I could not understand what was going wrong
@@John7No Yeah, maybe the KDE spin of Fedora was just not a good fit for my setup or something. Kind of a shame, because I liked it until it started freezing up on me. Cinnamon (with Debian or Mint) was consistently great for typical desktop usage, but not great for gaming.
So far Gnome is the only one that seems to be stable and performs well with most of the games I play.
I like the Windows 95 feel of xfce, but there is functionallity struggles. KDE is great, but too much bloatware. Im looking at trying cinnamon next.
Hi CTT, when are you and DT going to collaborate with LTT? That way, you can have a LTT/CTT/DT collaboration video
Hehe I'm flying to Canada for LTX today... I'll ask Linus
@@ChrisTitusTechBIG
@@ChrisTitusTech CLTT Collaboration video is cool
I think it depends mostly on whether you prefer the Win 7 look (Cinnamon, KDE, Budgie, Mate), or the Mac look (Deepin, Elementary), or the old-school Linux look (Gnome, Unity, XFCE).
Personally, I'd have made the video in 3 separate sections and rate Win7-like desktops, Mac-like desktops, and "other" desktops.
Man I'd love a wm tier list from you. You explain your experiences and knowledge on this software pretty well. If you ever do it I hope you include minimal hyprland compositors like sway and Hyprland. Here's to hoping!
yup this is the current state of linux distro... underwhelming, knowing mac and windows are superior these days for personal use and most of work operations :(
Lol "It installs extensions through the browser", you clearly haven't used GNOME in a VERY LONG time, last I checked that's just one way of installing them. AND there's a flatpak Extension Manager that addresses all the issues you pointed out.
Love the customization of KDE... hate the bugs.. specially on nvidia on laptops!!! Made me switch to cinnamon
Mate is a really good desktop. My personal favorite to add a plank dock to and modernize it with a couple of Pling themes like I always do.
Even tho I absolutely love GNOME(switched to it after years of using a window manager) your point is fair. The thing about GNOME is that it is really not meant to be used with a bunch of extensions(except a few, and also now GNOME is sort of moving to installing extensions trough flatpaks but that is way in the future). There is a specific philosophy and a way to use gnome in its purest form. Once you get used to it (for me at least) it is actually good. The problem with GNOME is that people try to use it as any other desktop environment with their past knowledge of Windows or Mac way of doing things. GNOME requires brief learning(honestly 15 minute video is enough) after which it is so easy to be a poweruser in it. Once you switch majority of your apps to be with gnomes philosophy you will start noticing that it all makes sense. But GNOME is not for everyone nor are window managers for everyone.
KDE was pretty, but indeed it felt unstable
KDE Plasma is my favorite DE, but I recently set up a home server on a very slow old Dell laptop with Alpine and decide to give SWAY WM a try. Having never used a window manager before, it definitely took a little time digging into config files and such, but I see why a lot of people prefer the aproach of building up a system that way; adding your bar and launcher of choice and adding only the utilities you want as opposed to being stuck with / cleaning up all the default tools that come along with a desktop environment. So far so good 👍🏻
KDE is actually lighter than Gnome
Just to give you an idea, KDE is usable on 2GB of RAM, while Gnome really isn't
Unless something changed since the last time I checked, Plasma is actually a little lighter than Xfce in some cases too.
Yeah. Plasma 5 is a little lighter on RAM usage than Gnome, but it's a bit heavier on the CPU. It doesn't run as well on really slow CPUs. Tested using CPU autofreq at 800 MHz.
As an Aussie, TIL that it's not Ubuntu Mate (as in G'day Mate), but Ma'te or whatever French sounding abomination you're saying. I'm sticking with mate. Matttteeeeeeeee. Straya.
A tierlist about desktop environments while using a window manager, sounds about right :P
I'd love to see a tierlist for wms honestly, that'd be pretty fun.
Maybe 2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.
I doubt if Gnome fits on a tier list. It's the default on some really big distros, and some people love it. Other people (like me) would only use it if the alternative were Mac OS. As a Brit might say, it's like Marmite (and an Australian would say, Vegemite). But it's great you didn't split the difference and call it average, because that is definitely what it is NOT.
This is exactly it. It's totally different from all the others that use the standard cascading menu layout, so something this different is bound to elicit extreme opinions. I'm in the 'love it' camp :)
@@jimdeadlock Gnome seems to me like it's a windowing environment for people who spend most of their time in the CLI. Is this true?
@@michaelwright2986 I like it because you can get to what you need very quickly, and the rest of the time it gets out of the way, no clutter. I spend a fair amount of time in the CLI but I don't think that's really a factor.