Holy cow. An actual civil caller who actually accepts arguments and engages with what's being said. He was actually asking questions, then confirmation for answers and entertaining issues. There are are still people like this in the world!
The whiteboard is such a genius psychological tool. No matter who you are, it brings out the student in all of us. Seeing the info also adds another sensory layer. Bravo to whomever proposed it.
If it keeps happening, then the common denominator might be _you,_ just saying. N4t3 is right, you sound a little unhinged. If this is a carefully-crafted comment that you had _unlimited_ time to compose and edit (since chat isn't flying by like in a livestream), I can only imagine that you probably spam the chat in livestreams. Garbage in, garbage out. Don't blame others for having healthy boundaries that protect them from you lol.
Sometimes you have to abstract the thinking _for_ them because they can't abstractly think themselves -- especially long-time cult members. Being able to draw pictures, charts, and diagrams can really help with that.
caller won me over when he asked what the Tanner stages are, like. that man came in to talk and willing to listen and the fact that that is so baffling to me is also deeply discouraging.
You can tell from the start of the call that this dude is salvageable. He has not lost all his humanity and still has the ability to listen and emphasize. Continue to do this work Jovan, you are changing the world!
After yesterday's horribly transphobic caller, this dude seems like a breath of fresh air, and that there *are* people that are curious about learning.
The "Side Effects" question always bothered me because side effects are 100% relative. There are therapeutic and side effects. Depending WHY you're using the medication, therapeutic effects can be side effects and vice versa. Medications can be used for multiple reasons and conditions. The question stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how drugs work.
I dont think the side effects question is a bad one because side effects ARE important to know depending on what the goal is. Prime example is adderall. If you take it to get over your adhd so that you can focus on work and such, well good fucking luck because with adderall you aint doin shit any more. It slumps you to the point of not wanting to fuckin move. So I think its always fair to ask so long as you are being genuine with the question like this guy was
@SoraGoob It's always a risk-benefit analysis. The risk of Adderall is dependent on individual physiology and is hard to predict. As is any medication with a psychoactive component. If someone is seriously struggling with something that the Adderall could potentially help with, they weigh that with the risk of taking it. You can also just stop taking Adderall slowly with doctors and/or pharmacists monitoring your health along the way. Same goes for gender affirming care. Puberty blockers have some side effects, but those are weighed at the risk of increasing suicidality, worsening gender dysphoria, and worsened symptoms of depression and anxiety WITHOUT the puberty blockers. We also give puberty suppressants to cisgender kids as well, so the side effect argument is bunk because they never say they should also be banned for cis kids under the same reasoning.
I think the question should be phrased slightly different. Maybe "what effects can happen while on x medication/treatment?" It allows us to talk about both therapeutic and side effects and it's a neutral question. The reason most people don't phrase it that way is because it's not usually explained to them that it's not neutral phrasing. Doctors list off "side effects" that are both bad and good. For example, weight gain or drowsiness CAN be a good thing for people, but it's listed as a side effect. So people assume "side effect" means things that happen on the side while on a medication/treatment (which makes sense imo).
@_JustJoe It's still a bunk question because they don't actually care about the side effects. Everytime you push a conservative on this they will just go, "Well cis kids are normal" or something like that. They are driven by malice, and I think the question is in bad faith, but also it's ill-informed.
the chat immediately attacking this guy before he said anything about his opinion (i'm a trans adult who had affirming care at 14-16) is reallly sad. let these people speak before you jump on them. even hear out their slightly problematic opinions before immediately assuming they'll never change ❤ i'm not offended by anything he's saying so far
It’s like when people kick their dogs and then wonder why they’re so vitious. Trans people are always gonna be defensive about trans topics because people only talk about trans topics in negatives
I'm never a fan of aggressive debates. No offense to Jovan but I tend to skip any videos that devolve into an argument where it's clear that the caller isn't going to budge. Sometimes I even skip to the middle of the video to see what the vibe is going to move into. Interactions like this are always golden
In all fairness, the caller is usually the one initiating by arguing in bad faith or becoming aggressive themselves. I don't blame Jovan at all for not wasting energy trying to be patient with and educate those sorts of people.
this guy is unknowledgeable but not stupid. It always some smarts to admit when you simply do not know enough. I do wish he was able to articulate his questions/positions a little better but that’s more for the listening potential lol
It takes a sadly rare humility to admit when you aren't as knowledgeable (or more) as the scientific experts in the field who study this kind of stuff for a living.
Glad there's still people out there open to being rational. Jovan will be remembered like a wandering scholar teaching the intellectually downtrodden. Btw, to counter the intellectually stunted in chat and the caller, I started my great ideological awakening in 6th grade. 2011 I became a proud, and open Communist (of course still practicing opsec within reason) because over the Summer I read all 4 editions of Das Kapital, and The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.
Jovan I know you love job to show how evil god is. And it's great, but I think the tower of babble story might be better. It shows just how petty he is
I wonder if it's physically seeing things written down (on the whiteboard) that allows people to be more open-minded. Because Jovan isn't arguing anything differently, and these topics don't *need* to be written down to be understood, but it seems to make a difference.
13:37 Commenter says “He’s not religious yet he thinks God is something? That’s already a contradiction” Yes because being religious somehow is a prerequisite to being spiritual…
One mistake in this, one I don't understand, hasnt corrected why the church . Satan doesn't exist. When translation original, it was assumed Satan a name, when in. But what it actually means accuser, in Jobs case, it's a heavenly accuser . Now you've called this the Christian God , but Christianity wasn't around then, as Christ wasn't born. This is where I start questioning things. There is a very dark contrast between God in the old Testament and Jesus. My belief is that man wrote the bible , Man isn't objective, we see this in book of laws that somehow give straight men all the benefits while oppressing women for control. Do I believe in Jesus? I do. So in my eyes from what jesus taught. If Jesus is the Christian God taken human form . I don't think they are evil. I think humans have weaponised it for control. Christian nationalists is a prime example of that
Indeed, Transphobes delude themselves into thinking they are heroes by embracing proven lies, myths, and gossip, then refusing to let go when shown the error of their ways. This is why they, much like other science-hating ideologues throughout history, resort to political persecution instead of disproving Gender Identity theory through the scientific method. They rely solely on emotions of fear, rage, and disgust, without any real facts or proof.
Holy cow. An actual civil caller who actually accepts arguments and engages with what's being said.
He was actually asking questions, then confirmation for answers and entertaining issues. There are are still people like this in the world!
The whiteboard is such a genius psychological tool. No matter who you are, it brings out the student in all of us. Seeing the info also adds another sensory layer. Bravo to whomever proposed it.
Honestly, these more chills talks are what give me hope people can change
What r utalking about
Mods just ban ppl.in chat they don't agree with. That's the worse. Hahhahaha. 0:00
@@philbright7389the “hahahahahaha” makes you sound insane lmao
@philbright7389 pretty sure they only ban if you if you start being racist, homophobic, or disrespectful in the chat.
@@philbright7389take your meds
If it keeps happening, then the common denominator might be _you,_ just saying. N4t3 is right, you sound a little unhinged. If this is a carefully-crafted comment that you had _unlimited_ time to compose and edit (since chat isn't flying by like in a livestream), I can only imagine that you probably spam the chat in livestreams. Garbage in, garbage out. Don't blame others for having healthy boundaries that protect them from you lol.
Jovan's been getting much better responses since the whiteboard. What is this crazy buff?
It like makes the idea more tangible.
Sometimes you have to abstract the thinking _for_ them because they can't abstractly think themselves -- especially long-time cult members. Being able to draw pictures, charts, and diagrams can really help with that.
Whiteboard out here paying dividends
caller won me over when he asked what the Tanner stages are, like. that man came in to talk and willing to listen and the fact that that is so baffling to me is also deeply discouraging.
You can tell from the start of the call that this dude is salvageable. He has not lost all his humanity and still has the ability to listen and emphasize.
Continue to do this work Jovan, you are changing the world!
After yesterday's horribly transphobic caller, this dude seems like a breath of fresh air, and that there *are* people that are curious about learning.
The "Side Effects" question always bothered me because side effects are 100% relative.
There are therapeutic and side effects. Depending WHY you're using the medication, therapeutic effects can be side effects and vice versa.
Medications can be used for multiple reasons and conditions. The question stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how drugs work.
I dont think the side effects question is a bad one because side effects ARE important to know depending on what the goal is. Prime example is adderall. If you take it to get over your adhd so that you can focus on work and such, well good fucking luck because with adderall you aint doin shit any more. It slumps you to the point of not wanting to fuckin move. So I think its always fair to ask so long as you are being genuine with the question like this guy was
@SoraGoob It's always a risk-benefit analysis. The risk of Adderall is dependent on individual physiology and is hard to predict. As is any medication with a psychoactive component. If someone is seriously struggling with something that the Adderall could potentially help with, they weigh that with the risk of taking it.
You can also just stop taking Adderall slowly with doctors and/or pharmacists monitoring your health along the way.
Same goes for gender affirming care. Puberty blockers have some side effects, but those are weighed at the risk of increasing suicidality, worsening gender dysphoria, and worsened symptoms of depression and anxiety WITHOUT the puberty blockers.
We also give puberty suppressants to cisgender kids as well, so the side effect argument is bunk because they never say they should also be banned for cis kids under the same reasoning.
I think the question should be phrased slightly different. Maybe "what effects can happen while on x medication/treatment?" It allows us to talk about both therapeutic and side effects and it's a neutral question.
The reason most people don't phrase it that way is because it's not usually explained to them that it's not neutral phrasing. Doctors list off "side effects" that are both bad and good. For example, weight gain or drowsiness CAN be a good thing for people, but it's listed as a side effect. So people assume "side effect" means things that happen on the side while on a medication/treatment (which makes sense imo).
@_JustJoe It's still a bunk question because they don't actually care about the side effects.
Everytime you push a conservative on this they will just go, "Well cis kids are normal" or something like that. They are driven by malice, and I think the question is in bad faith, but also it's ill-informed.
@@RJLK0518 any question is bunk if youre disingenuous
the chat immediately attacking this guy before he said anything about his opinion (i'm a trans adult who had affirming care at 14-16) is reallly sad. let these people speak before you jump on them. even hear out their slightly problematic opinions before immediately assuming they'll never change ❤ i'm not offended by anything he's saying so far
I always laugh because they're way off so often 😂
To be fair most people who call in abt this topic are very hostile
It’s like when people kick their dogs and then wonder why they’re so vitious. Trans people are always gonna be defensive about trans topics because people only talk about trans topics in negatives
I'm never a fan of aggressive debates. No offense to Jovan but I tend to skip any videos that devolve into an argument where it's clear that the caller isn't going to budge. Sometimes I even skip to the middle of the video to see what the vibe is going to move into. Interactions like this are always golden
Bulge
@TwoForFlinchin1 much appreciated 😅
In all fairness, the caller is usually the one initiating by arguing in bad faith or becoming aggressive themselves. I don't blame Jovan at all for not wasting energy trying to be patient with and educate those sorts of people.
We love to see a dude willing to learn ❤🎉
this guy is unknowledgeable but not stupid. It always some smarts to admit when you simply do not know enough. I do wish he was able to articulate his questions/positions a little better but that’s more for the listening potential lol
What irks me is the ones who literally say "oh idk much about it" but then continue to be set in their beliefs
It takes a sadly rare humility to admit when you aren't as knowledgeable (or more) as the scientific experts in the field who study this kind of stuff for a living.
Glad there's still people out there open to being rational. Jovan will be remembered like a wandering scholar teaching the intellectually downtrodden.
Btw, to counter the intellectually stunted in chat and the caller, I started my great ideological awakening in 6th grade. 2011 I became a proud, and open Communist (of course still practicing opsec within reason) because over the Summer I read all 4 editions of Das Kapital, and The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.
You are awesome. By the way people are deceptively clipping your discussions to say "jovan loses debate" on yt shorts
the dishonesty train from the haters never seems to stop
yknow people are gonna do this no matter what, just dont give it attention
the whiteboard is the only divine being i believe in
I like these kind of discussions, it's good to see that some people are willing to have their minds changed and I consider it a win for leftists
"Delightful conversation" Bros goated.
I really needed to hear a good conversation like this right now, thank you Jovan 🙏💙
I was a whiteboard skeptic, but I have seen the light. It brings truth to us all!
Keep it up! This is the kinda talks that pulled me from the alt-right in 2016
Jovan, I hope you business expensed* that whiteboard because it’s paying dividends so far.
That whiteboard has to be the best investment. Also is the mvp.
14 children, Jesus Christ...that is NOT a reward! LOL 🤣
"I don't know as much as I thought and I want to learn more"
YES MY DUDE
Oh how I wish puberty could be reversed
I think the addition of the whiteboard really does help out!
I love this caller. Good guy
damn this dude was so genuinely sweet, even asked after chat..
Don't forget the genocides God commanded and telling his followers to take slaves and how to trick his own people into remaining in salvery.
Im getting a whiteboard
One at a time we can change the world
I know my man was ZOOOOOOTED and i love him for it
Folks, we ❤️ the whiteboard.
i love this new whiteboard arc
He seems like a cool guy. Hope he's having a good day
Jovan I know you love job to show how evil god is. And it's great, but I think the tower of babble story might be better. It shows just how petty he is
Was that supposed to be why there's different languages? So we're not one nation?
@@Polcat94yes lol
Petty, or unworthy? The Bible has a lot of implications that yhwh is very far from divine and actually fears humanity.
Please give us more clips of chill talks
I wonder if it's physically seeing things written down (on the whiteboard) that allows people to be more open-minded. Because Jovan isn't arguing anything differently, and these topics don't *need* to be written down to be understood, but it seems to make a difference.
Another Win
Maybe the "W or L or Whatever" that theakkiqueen4655 spoke of... was the friends we made along the way
Sometimes people can listen to reason, yay!
WHITEBOARD FTW!!!
13:37 Commenter says “He’s not religious yet he thinks God is something? That’s already a contradiction”
Yes because being religious somehow is a prerequisite to being spiritual…
I like this guy!!!
Whiteboard op devs pls nerf
(Don’t actually nerf it it’s so awesome)
One mistake in this, one I don't understand, hasnt corrected why the church . Satan doesn't exist. When translation original, it was assumed Satan a name, when in. But what it actually means accuser, in Jobs case, it's a heavenly accuser . Now you've called this the Christian God , but Christianity wasn't around then, as Christ wasn't born. This is where I start questioning things. There is a very dark contrast between God in the old Testament and Jesus. My belief is that man wrote the bible , Man isn't objective, we see this in book of laws that somehow give straight men all the benefits while oppressing women for control. Do I believe in Jesus? I do.
So in my eyes from what jesus taught. If Jesus is the Christian God taken human form . I don't think they are evil. I think humans have weaponised it for control. Christian nationalists is a prime example of that
I think I know this guy?x D
Trump back in office baby!
Lol... wtf is this 🤢
What do you mean?
Evil will convince others that it's good. It's amazing that people will defend what is clearly abuse.
Of course once again you're chirping in the comments and saying nonsense instead of calling in to debate
Indeed, Transphobes delude themselves into thinking they are heroes by embracing proven lies, myths, and gossip, then refusing to let go when shown the error of their ways.
This is why they, much like other science-hating ideologues throughout history, resort to political persecution instead of disproving Gender Identity theory through the scientific method. They rely solely on emotions of fear, rage, and disgust, without any real facts or proof.
Hahah loser mods banning ppl in chat does they dont like my opinipns hahaha. Keep losing guys
was your opinion hateful and unproductive
No they don't lmao you probably just said something against chat rules
Bro go do something
you where probably spamming