Shining in the Darkness and Shining The Holy Ark - The Origins of Shining AND Golden Sun
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- in the beginning
Today we're finally looking back at the Shining series' roots. I covered Shining Soul expecting exactly zero interest, but I was wrong. I don't think people are as interested in Shining as like, GBA rpgs in general, but I found something interesting after playing the first Shining game - Shining in the Darkness - which is that the indirect sequel, Shining the Holy Ark, is the precursor to Golden Sun in almost every way. So we're heading back to the Genesis and Sega Saturn to see what's up.
So join me as I dredge up a ton of unwanted discourse and explore the early years of Camelot and Shining, then give up on making a video and drop 10 minutes of story analysis. What could possibly go wrong? The good news is, this one probably won't do that well so I ain't gotta worry about covering Shining Force 3. Load off my mind, lemme tell ya.
If you'd like to help support the show, here's the link: www.patreon.com/kbash?fan_lan...
I also covered Shining Soul here: • An Unhinged Look at Sh...
0:00 Shining and Camelot
1:44 Shining in the Darkness
7:48 The Holy Ark
16:38 Story Breakdown
25:59 The Golden Sun Connection
#Shining #KBash #GoldenSun #Retrospective - Ігри
Studying to make Sonic games, deciding to pivot to dungeon crawlers as your first game, three or four more flavors of RPG, and finally living the rest of your existence making Mario Sports games. But hey, does your job have anything to do with your college degree?
Strangely enough, this video is probably the perfect companion piece to your old Golden Sun videos. This time with the added context of Camelot's creation, you went above and beyond on this one. B)
I've been recommending this to GS fans for a while. That said yeah worth mentioning that this game's plot is partially to set up Shining Force III where pretty much all of these ideas are way more fleshed out story-wise. You get added context on the creator, thousand-year kingdom, Vandals, Innovators, and the Holy Ark itself. It doesn't do that perfectly but they really created a well fleshed out world in this Saturn saga. Definitely recommend it.
I wanna see another rpg like Ultima 4. No bad guy, just you going around being a wholesome, honorable person and setting a good example for the world.
Crpgs like Arcanum or Fallout 2 are nice because you either just do that or be the most evil bastard ever
@@schmecklin377 but they have nada guy
What a day to see my favourite reviewer Kbash talkin about a game connected to Golden Sun!
KBash: "We don't need an inquiry into JRPG towns"
Hazel: "Hold my beer"
Hazel and Thorhighheels: ✋
Based video trifecta
I can't say exactly why, maybe it's the sum of it's parts rather than anything individually, but I feel like this is a great improvement to your format. Great work Kbash.
I feel like "People in society becoming lazy and greedy being the source of all troubles" is a very japanese perspective on "evil" and whatnot.
In Japan, society *IS* God, and the worst thing a single person can do is deviate from its plans/harmonious, "natural" flow. If society assigns you a role, you should stick to it instead of rebelling or giving in to personal ambitions.
And we see that reflected on japanese media all the time. Some Ultraman episodes always come to mind... the ones in which a person becomes "too self centered" for some reason and that ends up creating a monster that in its turn creates problems for everyone. It's kinda interesting.
But anyway, I do believe that such neo-confucionist leanings are even more prevalent in gaming. After all, games need to give you an objective, a goal to achieve... and what better goal than to defeat someone who supposedly became "too greedy and corrupted" because of their own failings instead of the failings of a bigger, more broken system? It's easier to hate the villain this way.
Great video as always, K-Dude. Keep up the good work.
id agree with that take, there still is kind of a high standard when you get busted for doing the wrong thing in japan (at least it seems that way).
THIS
Oh my God, this is so good. My gf and I beat holy ark a year or two back, and both commented on the similarities to Golden Sun
The first Shining Force is a game I'll always recommend to people looking for srpgs on the genesis, its a wonderful lil time and I don't think enough people have given it the chance
Shining Force is my favored over Fire Emblem for the simplicity. I’ve never liked item durability management in games, and as a kid, permadeath felt really bad. So Shining allowing you to spend money to revive characters felt much better and let me get a lot further without screaming “WHY!?”. Golden Sun coming out later, I was exposed to a JRPG on a handheld I didn’t think I’d see at the time, as it was even more graphically sophisticated than Pokemon, which child me had thought “Clearly, this is the pinnacle of handheld RPGs!” I knew Final Fantasy VIII would never run on a GBA, but having something that felt like it could have been a console experience on the GBA was amazing.
"Shining Force is a game I'll always recommend to people looking for srpgs on the genesis"
Fishing from a wide pool there fella.
@@Ponaru Gotta keep Langrisser separate after all
You know I was just reading a book, and, at risk of giving away too much of my favourite fantasy book series... The death gate cycle (by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman) handles the whole "heroes bettering society instead of fighting evil" angle really well, at least for a short time. Spoilers ahead for one of the later books.
So basically, the heroes of the story end up having to fight beings that represent pure chaos and evil, and instead of directly fighting them to defeat them, what actually drives the evil away is the betterment of society and establishment of peace. It's simple, it's cheesy at times, but it's so fucking compelling.
I really need to get back to the Death Gate Cycle. I got distracted after Fire Sea...and that was a decade ago.
Refuses to do Shining Force, does the First Person RPGs instead... what a mad man.
Your best video to date, in my eyes. Super-fascinating! Also, good take on corruption, you have these clever digressions sprinkled throughout your videos here and there, and they always warm my heart.
Shining in the Darkness is great. Shining Force is one the first video games I ever played, and SF2 is one of my favourite games of all time. It's a shame that Shining Force is just generic JRPGs now, instead of turn based strategy. Same with Phantasy Star, people just think of PSO now, while gems like PSIV gets overlooked.
Glad to see other folks covering these games and pointing out the Golden Sun connection! Great video, I'm surprised I never found your channel until today. Now to dog into all your other content!
Let me just state that Shining the Holy Ark has THE most badass combat theme of it's generation. It's absolutely kickass and takes a LONG time of grinding before you get tired of it.
(Xenogears gets the best boss battle theme of this generation.)
Shining Force was the first game i ever played, so it's always a treat to hear people talk about the series, I'd love to see a retrospective on the SRPG Shining games at some point, lord knows you'd be, like the only person ever to do it.
Fantastic video as always!
Btw I agree with everything you said in your past Golden Sun videos.
You're a smart guy, KBash
Great video, really like the quick class analysis
It's a shame that the Camelot that once loved creating all sorts of amazing RPGs is now reduced to making Mario Sports sequels year after year. I'm sure it's more of a stable source of income for them and it keeps them afloat but man, I wish they'd make at least a new Golden Sun or just a new RPG in general.
With all these HD2D remasters coming out, I’d kill just for a remaster of the first two games. Such a shame Camelot dropped out of the RPG game.
@@hacksawDDS I recommend Unicorn Overlord, its strategy RPG published by Sega.
Ouuuu that ending line was pretty fire there Kbash. Keep up the good work and making banger video after banger video!
I love the content creators in the game critique genre that fall into the camp of "HNGGG EMULATOR BAD". They're too busy reciting "idyllicism" and "ludonarrative dissonance" in the mirror and huffing their own farts to realize that emulation is the future and the only realistic solution to game preservation. Emulation only gets better with time. I remember when the SNES mini and Genesis mini were released and everyone was buying them up like crazy, only to later realize that the emulation accuracy is fucking atrocious. Meanwhile SNES9x for example has had 99.99% emulation accuracy across just about the entire SNES library for an extremely long amount of time now. The "M-MUH OFFICIAL HARDWARE ONLY" crowd turbo-malding and losing their goddamn minds over it still holds a very special place in my heart to this very day. 😌🙏💯
You know you can hack the minis and put other emulators on it right? And "atrocious" is an exaggeration if I've ever seen one
Great video as always Kbash!
I still remember your Golden Sun videos. Among the ocean of 10/10 reviews, you're the only one who actually critiqued GS. I've beaten the games a few times and never noticed those flaws and you made it hilarious 😂 so keep KBash'ing!
Great video! I just recently played through the first Phantasy Star so it's cool to hear about Sega's other JRPGs released around the time!
The editing in this video is great!
Damn kbash, I wish i couldve seen you play through shining the holy ark. That game was so intriguing and this is probably one of my favorite of your videos.
Great vid Kbash!
A+ video, loved every second!
Thank you for this video, now I don't have to force myself to finish this game. Also appreciate your class analysis of the plot and Mog doll.
Love the character designs and graphics in general in this game, I really hope camelot makes another RPG someday.
The joke about the high pitched music really got me! XD
15:25 the way you pronounce mythril is really interesting. thanks for another banger vid kbash!
I like that the shot in the dark video on a GBA masher turned into a launch pad for a timely look back at ties to the studio's future works, and how a couple flaws in writing style never really got ironed out in the drawing board along the way
The consistency of the series DNA at least in connection by Holy Ark and GS is surprising, but I think the thread of how the videos tie back together is even more interesting. Life truly is a winding road of twists and turns.
Shining the Holy Ark was awesome. Be committed to grinding every so often and you'll feel comfortable against almost any enemies. This game has a great balance of keeping up the pace with needing strategies to take down most opponents, and also keeping you engaged just enough to not mash your way through enemies.
What I love about the decision to switch to Vandals instead of "demons" (in SF1 through 2) is that it change nothing to the narrative. It feels like an edgy writer that think using demons as bad guys is childish and so make up a new version that is totally not the same thing guys. Don't know if you ever plan on doing the shining force series itself but it's also worth noting that an another clue as to who wrote StHA is that there are direct references to it in SF3 with one of the heroes being a kid in this game, Galm the vampire looking dude being a boss fight while giving major Alex vibes (using both side to shady but never explained ends) and one of the playable character supposed to be one of the fairies you collected.
Shoutout to Wolfgangarchive for the maps !
Shining the Holy Ark was the first shining game I ever beat. Nice video.
I love first person grid based dungeon crawlers. Shining in the Darkness and D&D warriors of the eternal sun on Mega drive, Holy Ark on Saturn, Shin Megami Tensei Soul Hackers and Strange Journey Redux and also The Keep on 3DS, Dungeon Master on SNES (yes I actually got sucked into this version a few months ago, not bad!!), Grimrock 1 and 2 and The Quest on PC, it just doesn’t get better than this!
Best RPG genre, other than grid based strategy.
It's on switch as well via the Genesis classics game.
If you're a fan of shining or phantasy star, that collection is worth it just for Shining in the Darkness, Shining Force 1+2 and three of the phantasy star games.
Awesome, I've been hoping you'd talk about Shining for a while, the original Shining Force games were super formative for me
This is the video I needed
Golden is a small but nice series, I would love to see it comeback. As for shining force I’ve only played the third game, it’s long but very fun since it’s strategic kind of like fire emblem
"grab the rose, take five piercing damage"
I love you, you absolute madman.
Your videos really are a fantastic thing
I was 11 when Shining in the Darkness launched, 13 when I played and beat it. I still look back that experience and ask, "How the hell did I have the patience to do that"?
“…a more compelling story where the heroes try to help society instead of beating up ‘the evils’…”
Ah, yes, Ultima IV was an awesome game, wasn’t it?
Videos like this make me feel like I don't understand kbash's content. I'll Watch it all the way through to see. Edit: it got good after the first quarter and makes a ton of sense
Finally someone accurately covered Ark
Great new video, never back down on your golden sun vids tho. Kraden knows what he did.
The thing that always got me about Shining The Holy Ark (and Camelot RPG's as a whole) is how stuff never really got explained, Especially the stuff that didn't get xplained in Shining Force 3. I also realise that this game's story is way more disjointed than i remember.
Also i never really realised the balancing issues up the wazoo, Like Doyle being OP for like 2-3 dungeons, Only for Basso to outshine the moment he get's the Dragon Axe. As a whole party members have varying degrees of usefulness throughout the game, Like the ninja's not getting any good weapons for a good stretch of the game until the final dungeon or how Forte is obsolete the moment he joins and of course Buffs and AoE healing ae locked behind characters and promotions.
This game makes me want a new Shining Force game.
I recommend Unicorn Overlord, its strategy RPG published by Sega.
I just wanted to say I love your voice work for the Muppets.
The dungeon layout looks pretty interesting. More variety than many "box rooms with puzzles" from Etrian Odissey.
Oh man that " Simp GOD!" never fails to crack me up
Damn I'm in really early,
Thanks Kbash!
PRE-EMPTED!
Very interesting that Camelot has a demonstrated pattern of abuse, maybe one day Mr. Camelot will face justice for his crime
I seriously cannot believe how great your writing is
I never noticed as a younger version of me, that the roof and floor didn't actually move. Now I cant unsee it. lol
Damn Kbash that hair looking SILKY SMOOTH
I'll comment for the numbers. Very cool.
I’m a simple man, I see “Golden Sun” and I click.
The 2 minute monologue at the end over story and writing flaws that Golden Sun has is by far my favorite KBash moment in any of these videos. It isn't there to knock against Golden Sun, it's genuine criticism from someone with the perception, and now, the ability to name the flaws.
My favorite part of every kbash video is "CAN I CUSS ON HERE?"
Im always up for some Shining love! :)
Thank you!
The Saturn had built-in memory and came with a game. With the PlayStation by the time you bought a game and a memory card you were paying the same price or within 10 or $20
15:58 Sounds more like a... *puts on glasses* skill issue 😎👌
Jk, also great video!
accidentally decided to rewatch your entire golden sun series at the perfect time to follow up with this video??
Funny how some of the dungeon crawling tropes that makes RPGs in general a pain to play goes back all the way to the paper and pen days of Dungeons and Dragons.
Gr8 vid kbash
I always watch the credits for "simp god" even though it's not even me :)
You putting a warning makes you a great guy and chad. I hate it when people don't give warnings for obviously hardcore flashing.
Go seize
In random wall, a prophecy foretold I'd like this video and post this very comment.
Funny you say that about rpgs making you better with money, I’ve definitely felt the same way
Would love to see an Odin sphere review
Galm looks like that one vampire from Blood Omen.
no question mark needed, I know that camelot made golden sun
Please make more Golden Sun content xx
Landstalker was also intended to be part of the Shining universe, maybe before Climax Entertainment split from Sonic Software Planning? Kayla's henchmen, Wally and Ink are monsters from Shining in the Darkness, a Chestbeak and a Kromeball respectively.
Hey KBash, have you played Vagrant Story? It would be a very good idea for a video!
just because the parasite ruling class is automatically corrupt doesn't mean that people themselves are not the ones being corrupt as well. Though massive movements to undermine the working class (movements i think you'd disagree with) are also demonstrable and have an effect. An extremely nuanced discussion to be sure but i think only throwing blame on the obviously evil ruling class is short sighted, at least a little bit.
I audibly scoffed at KBash's discussion about class around 22:45. Not for the statements themselves but in relation to The Holy Arc's story. Corrupt ruling classes are a very basic world building structure in many video game stories: evil kings, aristocrats, etc.
Then KBash tops himself around 24:11: "I like games like this for never being mad at God. Ever."
My brother in Christ, I *know* you've played many JRPG's. Killing God or the equivalent is a genre cliché.
I don't understand people who demand nuance in storytelling when they themselves have a very rigid idea how how the world works.
I don't disagree with him, but I know that it's a belief that people constantly drop if it's directed at groups that they don't like. Otherwise, we wouldn't have large support for sanctions that a ruling class can avoid as laymen starve impoverished. Whether people would like to admit it or not, they will always salivate at hurting the uninvolved for the actions of one leader.
A vid on Shining Force. This'll be intetesting.
...
Oh, Shining in the Darkness and Shining the Holy Ark?
Oh, God.
Why?
Your mario censorship still makes me smile. "TF was that edit...? Oh right is KBASH's utter bullsh[waaaaaahhhh]" keep at it.
Here's me wishing for you to do a review on some atlus series games like ar tonelico, atelier iris or mana khemia. Alright that's it have a good one
I love when you talk rpgs lol
Love your stuff!
Honestly I love their work with the Mario sports games
The first Shining game is unplayable for me so thanks for this great video
Hey You think you can do the yakuza games someday? I recommend starting with 7 since it’s technically a soft reboot and you don’t need to play the first 7 mainline game’s to know whats going on in 7.
I think you will get a kick out of playing Dragon Quest 9. I love that games class system and ability to gain constraint buffs to your characters, through the skill tree system. If you ever play it, you pretty much have to change classes and do some metal slime grinding to gain class levels and easy to get skill points. If you don't, the game becomes very frustrating.
4:40
I audible chuckled
There's a secret cutacene with Elize and Galm at the end of Shining Force 3, it's hella booky and a shame the idea never got worked on
The fated return
I’ve never played any of these. I need to.
Golden Sun is the series that literally got me into RPG’s as a kid. You should definitely at least give the first one a shot!
I recommend Unicorn Overlord, its strategy RPG published by Sega.
Oh man, you got pretty far without collecting very many pixies in holy ark. Those really cut the length of random encounters down once you learn how to use them
I really didn’t do any grinding outside of what happens you would normally encounter in the dungeons. It’s really tough, but idk. Eventually that mithril claw fucking kills
When I was in 7th grade I had the biggest move of my life which was pretty hard for me cause I left behind my school and all my friends. During that time I just happened to be playing golden sun for the first time (which was in 2014 so yea I was based). That game fuckin carried me thru that hard part in my life and it’s now easily tied for my favorite game of all time with dmc3
I think your Golden Sun videos kinda made me a bit defensive towards them, and unwilling to consider your point, but with this video, I can see a lot more of your issues in the writing. It definitely feels like there's a potentially more interesting story that could've been told with what we were given
Maybe Saturos and Menardi didn't have to act almost comically evil even though they were ostensibly fighting for good. Characters don't really go through meaningful development
Still, you did hit on why love for the games persists. I still also think it has some of the most fun puzzle dungeons in RPGs. Honestly, they're what keeps me coming back. Golden Sun is some fine ass RPG food when you're trekking through them
I love shining in darkness, shining force and shining force . Never played holy arch.
What a wonderful day to watch kbash at 12 am : D
i wonder if Kbash will look into the Ys series one day?
I don't care about Golden Sun or Shining much, yet I feel this strong urge to tell you that your opinions on them are stinky.