Xenosaga - The Forgotten PS2 Trilogy
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- losing my xenomind out here
I'm not sure what I expected walking into Xenosaga. I've played Xenogears and I've played Xenoblade Chronicles, and I'm used to a certain kind of experience. Mostly, I expected KOS-MOS - everyone's favorite blue-haired robot from a game they've never played. Now that I've run this PS2 rpg trilogy, I have some thoughts! I do! They were just here I swear!!
Xenosaga is all kinds of shwacked - like not in a bad way either, right? Xenosaga is fun, and pretty simple to start playing. The games evolve in strange ways, mechanically speaking, throughout the trilogy, but not every aspect of play evolves simultaneously. They all prioritize different things, and the vision isn't particularly cohesive. At least to me.
The major difficulty with Xenosaga was Takehashi stepping down as director for the sequel, and the other extant development issues that challenged the game, leading to what can only be described as Xenogears: The Sequel, in more ways than one. You are witnessing a 6-part series crushed into 3 games, relevant pieces relegated to mobile and web spaces, and a refusal to let go of the original concepts informing Xenogears. Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?
**I edit a clerical error, and Jr. isn't a realian but a URTV, which I conflated - URTVs are biological in nature, so he is not synthetic. That is all, have a pleasant day.
If you'd like to support the show, I'm here: / kbash
Currently running through Monster Hunter games, but I'm buffing that video with several other projects so I can actually record them...
0:00 Alienstory
2:18 Xenosaga I
29:50 XSI Spoiler Segment
40:40 Xenosaga II
58:13 XSII Spoiler Segment
1:10:36 Xenosaga III
1:22:28 XSIII Spoiler Segment
#xenosaga #retrospective #kbash - Ігри
Xenosaga feels like a sci fi tv show that got cancelled before it got to truly say what it’s all about. But i feel this was an important learning experience for Takahashi. His biggest weakness as a game dev was his lack of planning and understanding the scope of his ambitions. Every game will have cut content, there’s no avoiding that but the early Xeno games have huge, revelatory story content cut from the final products that it will always leave us wondering what could have been. The Xenoblade games mostly avoid those issues and can tell long complex narratives with all it’s intentions. Xenosaga’s ending is very meta when you look at it as a mouth piece of the development team to always keep trying no matter how hopeless things can feel at times.
Seeing Xenosaga 3‘s ending after Future Redeemed hits even harder. chaos was correct. As long as people believe in it, they will return.
I really hope Takahashi can finally finish what he wanted so many years ago
@@boredgoddesstori6635Bandai owns the property of saga so I doubt monolith will remake the games again
@@therealjaystone2344 I mean, Namco is credited in Xenoblade 3 and they allowed Monolith Soft to use KOS-MOS and other Xenosaga related content multiple times trough out the years. Heck, KOS-MOS literally appeared on official Monolith Soft artworks years after they were bought by Nintendo
That third game is really a looker. High quality PS2 aesthetic.
The original hardware is better than most people remember, too. 480p with component or RGB cables is nice.
so gorgeous!
Xenosaga is somehow one of my favorite series of all time, and at the same time, the most egregious example of missed potential I've ever seen. Third one is actually my favorite of the trilogy, Shion really steps up and I love it.
By the way Kbash after a long journey with the lengthy XenoSaga how about taking a break and enjoying a little series of short simple rpgs in the definitely not 300h combination of 10 interconnected games that is The legend of heroes Trails series
Oh my God, remember having a breakdown when during the T-Elos fight instead of hype battle final meeting music motherfucking Hepatica plays? 😢😢😢😢😢
Blame managerial decisions. It was originally intended to be 6 games long, but the publishers said no, so the director had to cut it down.
Despite the setbacks of 2, I enjoyed 2 the most for the combat. I did enjoy 3 more because of polish tho, and the story was somehow more digestible than 1 and 2 (even tho it was the end of the trilogy) I think because there was a iirc a recap menu where you could read everything that happened thus far
"OH God....Please don't crush my pelvis, PLEASE DON'T CRUSH MY PELVIS"
Already starting off strong, I see 😆
the way i see the cutscenes in each entry is this :
1. Xenosaga Eps 1 : it's as if they are starting to use the 3D graphics for cutscenes
2. Xenosaga Eps 2 : Now that they have experience and knowledge, they overused it to the point of making John Woo-esque gunfight and Wuxia-esque sword fight
3. Xenosaga Eps 3 : they found a balance between narrative and coolness
I loved the video, but I do have one small nit to pick. Spoilers for those who haven't played the games:
Your analysis of Xenosaga 3's themes fell a bit short, in my opinion. Yes, Kosmos, Shion, and chaos are meant to be these super important people who enact change, and they do a lot of the work. But they still would have failed...if not for Allen. He is the most insignificant, ordinary, and lowly character in the series, but he saves Shion from making a mistake she'll regret. He saved her soul by speaking up and refusing to budge in his selfless love for Shion, and that is what gave her the will to act against Eternal Recurrence, convincing Kosmos to do the same. The smallest ripple turned into a wave to affect the universe.
Well, someone has seen TJTheEmperor's analysis.
Hey, I'm not complaining, that's a very good analysis, but still.
@XanderVJ I mean... yes, but even upon first experiencing it, Allen's last stand was instantly one of my favorite moments in the series. It gives him a long-awaited purpose, it gives KOS-MOS something to emotionally react to for practically the first time ever, it throws Kevin's nihilism right back in his face, and it shows Shion that people do genuinely care for her soul and want to help her out of pure altruism and not just pity. It is satisfying on so many levels that I rewatched the moment on UA-cam like half a dozen times.
@@XanderVJThanks friend
So, it's mentioned a couple times that six games would've been easier as far as telling the full story... but this arc was going to be two games. The next four were planned to be other stories involving KOS-MOS, one of them being a retelling of Xenogears, and the six games overall were roughly meant to match Xenogears's six episode story outline as detailed in Perfect Works. It's reasonable to assume at least a few of the denser elements would've been spread out a bit more, but even then, maybe a little ambitious for the first project of a new studio.
Nah that's not right. It was supposed to be pairs of 2 episodes, each pair focused on a different protagonist, but still following the same characters just sitting focus. Episode 1 and 2 of xenosaga were meant to be one episode, and episode 3 tried to tell most of everything else they had planned. But it was never going to be following perfect works outline or retelling xenogears. Perfect works episodes all take place on a single planet besides the first one, and possibly the 6th one. Perfect works and the xenogears story all revolves around Fei and Elly and their reincarnations. Nothing to do with gnosis or eternal recurrence. Xenosaga is a completely new story all its own.
@@chrislennon460I think the assumption is that the problem with the gnosis causing the collapse of the universe was essentially supposed to be the equivalent of Xenogears's Day of the Gospel (the unexplained time limit Miang and the Gazel have to resurrect Deus). It's obviously not a one to one, but Xenosaga can certainly be thought of as an AU retelling of Perfect Works Episode 1
You had me at "wealthy realians commit more crimes than poor humans"
The Protag is Xenogears at home too. They split Citan Uzuki into two characters. CItan Uzuki's scientific mind is Shion Uzuki, while his battle prowess and swordplay are Jin Uzuki, who even looks like him.
Ah, you got to it 20 mins in. Good show.
You dont have to imagine Jin in the first game, they actually show him in an early cutscene when Shion is talking to him via hologram screen
And you see him during the credits sequence
Can't wait to listen to the latest Kbash breakdown while on my shift later
I've been listening to hour long playlists of music and you're telling me I could just be binging kbash squawks?! Yes
Great for those lonely slow mornings at the job.
It gets me through life lbs
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way kbash feels like an older bother you wanna kick it with all the time.
My work day just got a lot better. At least for the next two hours
Genuinely, this overview of the Xeno series has been a joy to watch and it's a great feeling to see new blood in the community. That being said, it feels like you didn't engage with III's backhalf faithfully or with elements like Virgil's bigotry and what it's supposed to reflect on Shion's character. It isn't in your face to be edgy or offensive for the sake of being offensive. He is pointing to the main character, pointing to you, and saying that you are just as much a part of the system of oppression and dehumanization as he is.
You're just not saying it out loud. You can't detract Shion from her negative qualities and her own liabilities when it comes to being an employee of Vector, a company that markets and sells living, conscious beings as merchandise, strapping bombs to them as a means of a failsafe.
The scene of the church isn't supposed to be a redeeming moment for Virgil, it's supposed to be an eye opener for Shion. When the moment came down to it, she gave into the pressure and she weaponized humanoid lives.
The Old Miltia events, outside of the Maria sequences, are some of the best flawed main character writing in the game and it's a bit sad to see your burnout color your view of III.
Him also saying albedo was “redeemed” is something i just find absolutely laughable.
I love this video and I’m glad you enjoyed Xenosaga but every lore misunderstand makes me feel so autistic lmao, anyways for clarifications sake, Cherenkov is not a cyborg who was resurrected, he was a designer child (humans genetically altered before birth) made for war, but he never got to fight in the war he was raised for and couldn’t live normally and harmed people as such he was put through personality reconditioning multiple times which were the procedures you were talking about, other notes so far is Jr is not a realian but a special type of designer child called a URTV made to fight U-DO, KOS-MOS is also not a realian she is an android, again wanna reiterate I’m really enjoying the video just wanted to point stuff out because I have a really stupid amount of knowledge in regards to Xenosaga lore, really did my homework and read the database and all that.
Yeah but that together with the little attention to the themes, developments, etc. especially in three make this video seem jaded and not engaged enough in the games, just playing them to check them off your list. It's a shame cause if anything, 3 especially wrapped things up nicer than it could haven been and in a powerful thematic way. Maybe playing 3 semi-long RPGs with dense story that requires certain commitment from the player back to back wasn't the best idea to avoid burnout and it affecting your experience.
I love this guys videos, but damn some of these points did feel like a patreon requirement. I similarly care and know way too much about this series, so some of the takes just confused me more than anything. Like the nepo baby argument with kosmos and shion reincarnating together. to me that was always just meant to show two souls clinging together throughout an uncertain future. same goes with the eternal recurrence stuff, yeah the plot point itself is brought up an hour or two before the finale, but the idea of facing and coming to terms with your past to move on from your trauma and live regardless of how terrifying that uncertainty can be is literally present throughout the entire game. so much of 3 is rushed due to development constraints, but glossing over what is there character wise, the most important part of this series in my opinion, just felt wrong
@@ThePako7777I definitely don’t agree with a lot of the video (especially the saga 3 section) but the point of my comment wasn’t to patronize his opinion it was to correct just genuine mistakes, I think as much as he IMO misunderstood the themes, he also grasped some things I don’t see people talk about such as Saga 1’s aesthetic tying into saga’s message about corporatism and technology being used to stagnate the world, I radically disagree with a lot of his assessments of the themes and characters (especially the albedo and virgil not deserving sympathy thing) but I don’t think it was a lack of engagement but rather the game just not really fitting his tastes.
@@eribrin650I don’t agree with most of his takes either but at the end of the day it’s an opinion piece and I’m happy to see more Xenosaga discussion generally, I was more focused on correcting the misinfo, tbf as well my comment was written during the saga 1 section which is mostly positive.
I was looking in the comments to check if someone corrected him. I love the video but this is my favorite JRPG series of all time so I get a bit pedantic about the details.
The whole part about Kos-Mos being Mary still makes me feel like i'm gonna go insane and i have gone thru this whole game series like thrice
I rented the first Xenosaga game when I went on a Christmas trip with my brother, my dad, his wife and her kids to see her family in Carmel. All the kids were stuffed into this little bunk house.
I hated those trips because my brother and I were always treated like we were outsiders and no one made any real effort to incorporate us into their family.
One day my dad took me to a local rental store during one of these visits. My dad had gotten me a PS2 for Christmas the prior year so of course I brought it because I expected a new game or two that year. Xenosaga was on the top shelf of the game section and I was just immediately captured by it. I spent so much of my time during that Christmas visit, sitting on a little camping chair in the bunkhouse, camped in front of a 10" tube TV, just being totally ensconced into this world that I didn't understand because I was too young to comprehend it fully, but old enough to be enraptured by the visuals, the incredible music, the tone, the focus on storytelling and the combat which focused on spamming everyone's fancy special attacks as much as possible.
13 year old me, who was still in love with Digimon, Sailor Moon and Power Rangers, media that loves their canned, fancy special attacks, found the spectacle of the game extremely appealing. All the ridiculous things KBash pointed out as cringe were all the things I definitely loved at 13 and Junior was absolutely my favorite ch😂aracter because he dual wielded pistols and looked 12 (I'm pretty sure I had a crush on him? I'm still not 100% sure on that). And he was my _first_ 'old child' character so that shit hit me where it hurt. It was the only real tragedy the game portrayed that I could actually comprehend because of the visual difference between him and his brothers. My own older brother is 4 years older than me and the difference between us at the time was pretty vast so I could relate to it.
Anyway, I don't have a ton of great memories from my childhood, but I have a fondness for the first game that I've carried since. I was really disappointed by 2 and kind of 'eh' on 3, but the Xenoblade games seemed to take what I loved about the first Xenosaga and made that the focus of that series, which I'm grateful for because that same fondness for the first Xenosaga I have lives on in Xenoblade.
Edit: Oh boy, I didn't mean to turn this into an essay, I have posted cringe.
Nah I get it. These old games are kind of like snapshots in time. I remember I bought this when I was in college new for like 12 bucks from a sears bargain bin. I got really into the game and eventually played the entire series.
Junior was my favorite character and honestly he felt more like the main character than Shion did once the first game was finished.
If xenosaga ever gets a remake, will you be playing it?
@@therealjaystone2344 I'd buy two copies. A physical for my collection and I'd get it digitally to actually play.
Xenosaga 1 is a masterpiece. When the main two writers whose life work it is are replaced after the first game, there's nothing left to see. The new director Koh Arai even outright said he doesn't understand Xenosaga and will never reach Takahashi's level. It's one of the biggest production tragedies in the medium.
We will see a remake, one day
Absolutely agree. Xenogears is my favorite RPG of ALL TIME! The Xenosaga was and extremely hard slap in the face of fans of the first one.
Played trough the entire series and thought the first one was an absolute masterpiece... Then the rest.... Happened, having 300+ jrpg under my belt now, both 2-3 was just another generic jrpg that sis nothing new.
SPOILERS!:
The smallest of waves did change things, we have no idea how many times they repeated the timeline, Alan changed this iteration of this consistently recurring timeline, and the person who was made fun of, and rejected without even trying multiple times changes it all
I started xenosaga from the xenosaga 3 and love it really much, still love it's ending albeit knowing almost nothing about the other 2 games at the time. Chaos was one of my favorites characters to use, along side best girl Kos-mos, but the entire party is really cool to mess around to see their moves and combos.
God damn it, just as I finish Xenogears and thought I was XenoFree you're gonna make me want to play through Xenosaga.
Great game, great story, sends you on an emotional roller-coaster.
@LunaP1 oh I'm sure. I played about 10 hours into Xenosaga as a teen/pre-teen. But never finished it unfortunately. Still holding out for a remaster or port, but I'll emulate it eventually
wait until you get to Xenoblade Chronicles
@@Vanity0666ehh theyve probably played it. It's way more popular
@@thelightspeeddash6329 could be worse, they could be doing Megaten like me
It should be mentioned that MOMO and chaos (kinda chaos) have the Hilbert Effect too. But I agree, the Hilbert Effect should have been an element of the gameplay
Great deep dive, very amusing! It's daunting to summarize the story in this 3 game spanning epic, I know. I did miss the info on the origin of the gnosis though, it's key to understand why Wilhelm orchestrated the entire plot. The gnosis are like unresolved souls that linger in this plane of existence instead of ascending to the higher plane. Eventually this clogs the universe and it needs a reset, hence the eternal recurrance.
They are big weird ghosts!
Dude!!! Im really liking your channel. A lot. Im 36 and Ive seen trends on UA-cam from small guys becoming huge and viral and more. Youve got it. Keep going.
Amd thank you for scratching my Xenosaga itch! I actually own the original NA Ps2 discs. Think its time to enjoy the story again.
Keep it up!!!
It's hilarious to me that after all this time people are still not understanding the combat in Episode II. You don't need to stock every turn. You can aim for the enemies weakness and you have a chance to build stocks that way. You can invest in a skill that makes break bonus give you stock practically every time. I do agree that normal enemies do have a bit too much HP though.
I mean, this isn’t Megaten
Games still boring as fuck and has some of the worst dungeons in any jrpg ever
You've done it all! You completed all the Xeno games! All but future redeemed although it was nice to hear your thoughts, now I must hope that one day Namco will remember this series especially after Baten Kaitos is getting a remaster
They already trademarked the IP years ago but Bandai is very careful on remaking games by the industry
This still stands as some of my top favorite games, all these years later. Some of the best storytelling I've ever encountered.
Hilariously enough ya struck up all the prime xenosaga series memories: collecting erde kaiser in xs1, junior and albedo hijacking the game at the last 3rd, and goddamn weltall in xs3. Such good times
The conclusion to their rivalry in Episode II was emotional. Just when you think you’re free from emotional roller coaster, BAM, your heart gets ripped out!
The cinematic experience I've been waiting for!
iirc, Xenosaga II's storyline was fully written by Takahashi and his wife, Soraya Saga, but the script was largely or completely ignored by the development team, much to both of their despair. Saga was fully ejected from story writing the trilogy during II's development.
Playing Xenosaga 3 with no context of any of the previous games was a near religious experience for me tbh
...why would you start with the third one o.O
@@smashbrandiscootch719 I didn't know at the time how to get the other games, and I'm not usually one to stress about playing games out of order. First Metal Gear Solid I played was 2.
@@DaviddeBergerac That makes sense. Sorry for sounding rude; I was a little mindblown and wasn't paying attention to how I said things.
@@smashbrandiscootch719you're good, homie
About the biblical stuff. Xenosaga takes inspiration mostly from Gnostic Christianity. Which is actually more in line with what saga does with its biblical references. It's actually a rather interesting prototype for Xenoblade Chronicles 1's ending. Just instead of Zanza, you have Wilhelm. Tho in some ways, i find Wilhelm more interesting, because he's basically the universe's creation in response to Yeshua and Mary being manifested in the lower reality.
Just like xenoblade 3 with malos and pnuema being controlled by z because of the energy annihilation events destroying the universe
I've always adored and admired the Xenosaga series so to see you get to do a video on it now is absolutely awesome! The more that this series is talked about the better! And I've also always thought you deserved so many more subs given your efforts of making these videos and the quality of the content.
i love this game so much. it means so much to me. at the same time, i basically cant recommend it to most people. for so many reasons. but it is everything
I feel the same way about Drakengard and Dot Hack for similar reasons - profoundly influential to me, but so old and janky nobody would enjoy them today
i'd like to know why because i'm curious to play it
@FSVR54 if you can either afford the massive fees to buy them on Disc or somehow emulate them, they're definitely worth a try. The first two hours of the first game are so slow and it doesn't really "open up" until the Ziggy session imo. But the story is clunky, the voice acting is awkward, the combat is weird, exploration is very video gamey and requires tons of backtracking and grinding. It's definitely the first game of a new series from a long-time overambitious director. It could have used two more passes in the script and another year of testing the combat / leveling system to make it more fun. But if you can overcome these problems and others Kbash's video talked about, I think they're legitimately novel experiences
48:35 When you know this trilogy so well that you can tell the shift from Episode 2 to Episode 3 immediately.
It was Allen that saved the universe. Not Shions status. His ability to understand Shion after what was many, many cycles. And Shions eventual desire to want to impove her serious mental disorders. That is EXACTLY what the series has been talking about this whole time.
Everytime you kept saying Jr. and his brothers are realians it actually hurt. They aren't synthetic forms of life like realians, (SPOILERS) U.R.T.V.s are human clones genetically modified.
Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious
THIS
I forgot
It's been so long...
@@tisisprivate7575 THEY ARE?!
@@tisisprivate7575 SPOILERS:
The XSIII database confirms they're clones of Dmitri Yuriev himself. He planned to gather data on U-DO in order to ascend to godhood, and employed biological clones of himself in combat against it to do so. This also gave him the opportunity to create a new host and survive beyond his death (Gaignun).
I wish they'd make a rerelease of this series. An HD trilogy type of thing.
There was going to be one back during the PS3 era. It was canned by Namco for a presumed lack of interest of the public.
So XB3 future connected directly references things from the saga series. It goes so far as to name drop Dimitri Yuriyev, and it's final cut scene is a direct call back to the last scene of saga with an unknown object drifting toward earth's orbit ( theorized as Kos-mos). So I can't say for sure, but it looks like one might be getting worked on.
With the success of Xenoblade, and the hype surrounding the potential future of the series, if it's ever going to happen now seems like the time.
@@EpicSteve23 What if Xenoblade and Xenosaga are set in the same universe? After all Earth disappeared following an unspecified event in the Xenosaga series, an event that could be the experiment that led to the events of Xenoblade...
@@emanuelepolloni4002 that is actually one of the working theory going the fan base right now. It could absolutely be true
Jr's adult form was planned for II episode, but was scrapped when Takahashi and his wife got the boot. He was basically meant as an expanded Emeralda it seems
Great breakdown. You broke down a lot of what I went through with this series; brilliant but falling flat simultaneously. You keep proving why you're the best boy.
I remember being blown away by the music and visuals of Xenosaga. I thought graphics could not get better than this. lol
Should play through this series again. Really good game, so much potential.
This is my first time seeing Xenosaga, I gotta say for a ps2 game it really good facial animations for some of the character models.
1:38:25 Really succinct criticism of how copping just the aesthetics of something in a bid to make a narrative appear "deeper" without actually crafting events or character arcs that are properly in conversation with the thing being referenced results in a shallower narrative is spot on. It's very i'm-13-and-this-is-deep vibes lol
Love this trilogy of games despite its fumbles! Will always wonder and lament what the full 6-game vision could've been lmao
Great video!!
I hate to break this too you KBash, but solving puzzles *_is_* playing the game. A part I personally love about _all_ the Xenosaga games.
Played this trilogy last year, very excited to see a channel I love watching finally cover this daunting series.
Thank you for this video, xenosaga is probably my favorite game from childhood even tho I didn't most of the story at the time. The shion fainting edits were to good, i forgot how much that actually happened
Xenosaga is a great series and KOS-MOS is my favorite because she's iconic!
I've been a major fan of Xenosaga, glad to see a video on it. Eventually I hope to write a novelization of the series including obscure content like Outer File and the DS-exclusive port.
I would love to read that when you do. I love this series but only played the games.
It always takes me several days to see your full video. But i never lose the chance to do that. Thank you for the analysis. I enjoy it a lot.
Dude amazing video, always wanted to delve into this series. Thank you for breaking it down and as always looking forward to your next piece of dedicated hardwork!
That first Xenosaga game was something special at the time, selling extremely well in the US and I remember getting super involved in online discussions at the time. Then we had a multi year wait for the second title and it's very mixed reception, it definitely had it's great parts but also some very low ones. And by the time the third title came out I picked it up and just kind of left in on the self where it still sits awaiting the day when I do finally set up my PS2 chill space and play all my collection in glorious CRT.
Oh? You used to visit the monolithsoft forums or whatever I take it? I miss those times. Shame you let XS3 sit, it's better than this video makes it seem. He highlights the good qualities of the entire series, and then kinda digs on the cons individually, so by the time XS3 comes along it's mostly negative sounding.
Anyway I did find it weird how he complained about the boss rush at the end of xs3. I thought it was fine, I don't remember the battles taking THAT long, and well... Using momo in the 3rd game for healing, and using chaos for support, probably the 2 'slowest dps' characters, so yeah, battles will take longer I guess.
Momo in the 2nd game is an absolute beast with her physical attacks of all things. Sure she can't launch or down an enemy, but get someone else to do it, and momo's burst attack spams are wild. I agree about the xs2's combat though. It's actually pretty satisfying for bosses, but for trash it reminds me of ar tonelico qoga (bad game), where you just waste time to set up so you can omgwtfbbq the enemies. Omega Quintet also has a similar style of combat too. But it's actually good in that game since it rewards you well the more you overkill enemies, so that you can get like 1200% more experience, gold, and drop rates, etc.
XS3's combat is NOT like that IMO, the pacing of the combat is actually pretty perfect, if a bit on the simple side where you rarely use more than 2 or 3 best moves, but that goes for most jrpgs, especially ones of that time.
X
I have gone through such a slew of emotions watching this as it's one of my fav game series. But I have to admit that you're absolutely right about all of it. I can only imagine what it's like to go through this series after Xenoblade came out cus it fixes a lot of the ideas that were being attempted here. But I'm glad, like always, that you were fair and honest in your opinion and it was refreshing to listen to.
Well originally it WAS supposed to be a 5 parter that would "explain events" leading to Xenogears on the PS1 but, Saga got reduced to a trilogy instead. At the very least, I was pleased to see references & rememberances made to Xeno's "Saga" series in Blade Chronicles 2 by making Kos-Mos a blade.
I'm afraid I'm late to the party on this video but thank you for making this. It took me years and questionable amounts of cash to get these 3 games together but they were a big part of my teenage years. Seeing people not having forgotten about this series makes me happy.
Amazing long-form content. So good I became a patreon. Loved XS1 and never had the time to play the others. Thanks Kevin for creating this detailed, funny, and focused series encapsulation.
Can we all please appreciate that KBash created a metaphor using a fan favorite Chrono Trigger location?! Seriously, a classic video game IS now a metaphor for other games!! I don't know what this means for reality as we know it, but I'm just so happy and proud!
vro you need to chill
I remember playing this as a teen and getting so into it that I began writing out entire guides for myself, I had Boss and Enemy strategys, which characters to use for which area for maximum benefit, item location and each puzzle solution, and every alt outfit. It took me about a year to beat the whole trilogy the first time, and a few weeks the second time lol
I like your commentary on how the ties to religious figures interferes with a characters importance.
If you make it so that they’re a reincarnation to someone like Mary or connected to Mary, then your development of the present character is going to come off as half baked.
Of course, this could’ve been mitigated if all the characters properly carried their own weight and equal importance across the story as a whole without that religious aspect within their genes.
Yay! I've been looking for a good Xenosaga essay. Subscribed! Thanks!
Recently found your channel and love your work! :) Well written, funny, slightly sarcastic/camp from a place of sincerity (which is the only good kind of sarcastic camp). So yeh, not that I've layed most of the games you cover, but, hope you're doing alright and thanks for making your videos! :D
Also, bonus points for loving Nioh 2 and making an essay on it! Its so underrated and I don't see any essays about it!
Starting the weekend off right! HOO! Love you KBash, keep up the excellent work,
man, awesome video.
I have been following for years now and really feel like your writing has been elevated lately. Good shit
Now that I've learned this was written to be a 6 part saga, I NEED a current/next gen remake.
Depends on where your looking, the xenoblade games are basically spiritual successors to both gears and saga, and after the DLC in blade, might even just be a flat out sequel to saga...
BY GOD I LOVE YOU AND YOUR TIMINGS WITH CONTENT I JUST STARTED GETTING INTO XENO AND WAS CURIOUS ABOUT XENOSAGA
I legit couldn't tell it was the same Shion from the first game in the second game for the longest time due to how different they looked and sounded. I just figured it was a Final Fantasy Cid situation where it's a name shared by completely different characters.
You’re the only one who thought that.
Thank you so much for covering this series. I absolutely love these games. Hidden gems.
Thank you for covering my favorite game series of all time with such an entertaining video. :D
Your Xenobalde Chronicles retrospective got me to pick up the definitive edition and X, can't wait to hear your thoughts on Xenosaga! I'll make it into a movie night
I literally just finished the series last night.
„It must be Fate… how ironic!“
Man the way I loved these games despite only barely being able to follow what was going on scene to scene, especially in 3 (should have read the in-game database but never did). I did really appreciate the strangely natural aesthetic of 2, although Shion got totaled a bit too hard with her look and voice, and I agree that the battle system is GREAT for bosses but a total pain for standard enemies.
I remember a segment where I was struggling with a boss and decided to grind with some enemies from earlier, but the enemies from earlier were also a struggle. Very slowly whittled myself up a few levels and narrowly passed the boss.
Wild that you release this video the day after I started playing Xenosaga Ep1 again for the first time since I was a kid.
Been waiting to see this! Don’t have the time to play the saga, but did play Xenogears
Finally some coverage about this old classic. Surprised there hasn't been a remaster.
Also still waiting for some NIS game coverage like soul nomad vs the world eaters or disgaea
Oh, that seems like it'd be up Kbash's alley.
As long as he hard ignores post game content, because otherwise we won't see him for a year.
Thanks for the vid! I played the series when it was new and magnificent!! One thing I remember is how bad most of the voice actors were.....except Albedo....dude was honestly 5 notches higher than recommended and it worked so well.... I laughed so many times at just how crazy he would get in comparison to the others
Shion gets a lot of shit from the UA-cam scene in the sequel and while I get it I still think she’s one of the most underrated jrpg protags ever
She did act like a dumb bitch for most of episode 2 though.
A very entertaining watch. Great job. Your last line says it all. I still think Xenosaga III is the best in the series and was such a joy to play at the time.
I had the first part of this franchise on PS2 for the longest time, and I remember getting to the giant red alien boss and getting stuck on the game. Up until that point I was enthralled with the game. I did end up selling my copy of xenosaga 1 due to the fact that I never went back to replay it. I have wanted to replay all the games just for the story though and I have improved greatly in terms of understanding how turn-based games work. But that first game was the only other cutscene heavy game aside from Metal Gear Solid that I ever actually sat down and watched and never skipped anything. The characters and story are among the most amazing storylines in gaming. It is a shame that if you want to collect all copies of the games in chronological order it'll cost you anywhere between $300 to $250. I do think they will remastered these games eventually or at least Port them. But I never thought I'd see anyone talking about xenosaga this thoroughly oh, and I thank you for such a long retrospective on a series that I have yet to return to.
Honestly, this game probably had one of the best early examples of 3D anime-style models that feel very true to 2D anime art. I personally love the graphics in this game. Apart from that, I'd recommend playing games like this with the Japanese dub. The English just never sounds quite right
How do you play these so fast?
I only played XS1. I recall it being so silent. Lots of ambient air noise.
Maybe playing the games back to back so fast is why he missed the mark while analyzing the story, specially Episode 3. Don't get me wrong, the analysis is still pretty good, but not as good as it could have been if he had paced himself better.
You’re a legend, thanks for getting me into the xeno series!
Thank you for taking the time to put this series in the spotlight. It's a series that for whatever reason has always stuck with me. I played it as a kid and i revist it every couple years. I think that the series as a whole was trying to make people feel something heavy. I like to call this type of story telling the evangelion effect. It desperately wants you to feel it's characters so that when something happens to them you feel as though it is happening to you. The only problem is that this series clearly set the intention for that with the first game and then had to rush it in the next two. I do believe if this series would've got to be six games the payoff at the end wouldn't have felt so hollow and unnecessary.
Its the only series from the PS2 era that still draws me to it. And there was so many bangers for that console, so i think that desire is a testament to the incredible "what if" factor that the series has. It could've been better but what they gave us is so engaging, that regardless I just want to spend time in that universe. I want to see the group go through their story even knowing how fleeting the end they are working towards actually is.
Couldn’t ask for a better video on my day off, always come threw Kbash
I was so shocked by the cutscene from the XenoSaga3 part of the video, that "breats aparatus" thing that Cosmos did, that i had to look that up, to know if there was any context behind it or if the scene itself was longer, but yeah... It was exactly what we see in the K-Bash video, what the hell?
Enjoyed the look back and had a good laugh. For all it's flaws, I love this story probably more than any other.
I really liked the conclusion this time. Props K.
Thanks goodness much younger me bought episodes 1-3 back in the day.
The tie in I've been waiting ever so long for.
When I saw this video pop up I was ecstatic because it's not often to see somebody talk about the Xenosaga games, especially not in depth now a days since it has been so long since they came out.
However, I'm not sure I quite agree with all the conclusions of the video.
First up, some minor nitpicks. As a lot of other commenters brought up, you call a lot of characters Realians that are not realians. For instance, Kos-Mos is a classic android. She's entirely mechanical. Rubedo Nigredo and Albedo are genetically modified human children. They're basically test tube clones of Dimitri Yuriev, but they do technically have a biological mother. Another nitpick is that the pope that is defeated in Xenosaga 2 isn't Heinlein, he's Sergius. Heinlein is Wilhelm.
Now imo, I think these games (especially the first) are definitely a product of their time, a time when a game was allowed to have an audience and not necessarily appeal to the broadest group possible. As such, some of it definitely can come across as weebish, but I would say it adds to the charm. Sure, the artstyle change in 2 kind of went against this mindset, to the game's detriment of course, but everything else still oozed that 2000's JRPG soul that many games at the time had. There are times where I miss the mindset those older kind of games had.
One thing I disagree with gameplay wise is the complaint about non-battle gameplay. Back then, the idea of being able to interact with the environment so much was not very common in JRPGs. Similarly, the puzzles were not a problem even back then when I played it, or at least for 1 and 3 it wasn't bad.
Gameplay wise, in the first game I liked that the game offered you a large amount of customizability in how you trained your characters. You could focus entirely on stats by spending their TP on syncing a stat up to the highest value that is in the party, or you could upgrade your tech abilities to be stronger, especially letting you use them in one turn instead of 2. And the characters could learn abilities from each other as well as from equipment. If you wanted, you could try to completely min-max your playthrough to make it so the characters stats were the highest they could get, though this was in no way required. Similarly to you, I basically never used the A..G.W.S.
With Xenosaga 2, it was actually my introduction to the series. I was a kid at the time and at a rental store and saw it and thought it looked interesting so I rented it and ended up actually getting into it even though I didn't really get the combat at the time. So I got Xenosaga I and after playing through and beating that some time later I did go back and could tell that Xenosaga II was an immediate step down in a lot of ways. A lot of the customization was gone, and one thing I really missed was the datalog that the first game had. Still, some things I will always enjoy about Xenosaga II. 1.) The game has some great fight scenes, both in the E.S. mechs as well as sword fights between Jin and Margulis. 2. While the background music for the areas aren't particularly, the music done by Yuki Kajiura for the cutscenes was fantastic. 3. A lot of the story moments were great. Also, in Xenosaga 2 I remember MOMO was absolutely broken for some reason. Get her stocks maxed out, break the enemy with them preferrably being in the air, and boost to her turn and have her just shoot them over and over until she runs out of stocks. Of course not every enemy is weak to this but a good portion of them are. On the flip side I remember Shion being nearly useless for most of the game, very few enemies seemed to be weak to her attacks.
To be fair to the combat system in 2, a lot of people even now often don't really grasp how it works, but while even playing optimally does still mean it has slower battles than 1 and 3, taking advantage of the battle system's multipliers can help get through your average random battle much quicker. The main tip is learn analyze to find out what breaks an enemy as well as their weakness, swap out characters accordinggly and use sword element ethers to match the weakness (or use characters that have a natural element for certain weaknesses), break, then launch or knock down, and finally go to town unloading stocks,, especially with characters such as MOMO.
Personally I preferred Xenosaga III the most out of the three games. Gameplay wise, it might not have been the most different but I found it's combat system simple to learn but addictive. Unlike 2's combat, the combat in 3 is actually really fun and I generally never ran from battles or cheesed them to get it over with. I also liked how pretty much all of the characters could be powerhouses. I tended to lean toward Jin or Ziggy, Chaos, and Rubedo for my party, with Shion Momo and Kosmos also seeing a lot of use depending on where I was. And for some reason, some of the things that always made me chuckle were Ziggy doing the move where he seems to snap the enemy's neck, and they slump to the ground, only to be fine the next second. Also, Momo learning Swordfish (a move that Ziggy also learns in the game) and punching enemies for a lot of physical and break damage.
Some of the comments you made about the games seem a bit uncharitable. Now I'm not saying that the Xenosaga is some unrivaled masterpiece, but you make it sound like a lot of the references to religion and philosophy are just attempts to be 5deep6u. Maybe I misunderstood what your conclusion, but if I was correct, then I would say the mindset is kind of pretentious.
The world building in these games are great imo. Funny enough I spent a lot of time reading the in-game encyclopedia because the history and makeup of the world in Xenosaga was just that interesting. It also helps that most of that was there for those that wanted to deep dive into the lore and backstory of the characters without it actually being required to know what is happening at any particular moment *cough* FFXIII *cough*. However, it isn't free of contradictions however. There is a great resource on the internet called ordo ab chao that compiles information from the all of the games, the X3 in-game database, and the Xenosaga Episode III Perfect guide and it lays things out things chronologically which can help those new to the series better understand the world of Xenosaga. It's not a long read either.
Return of the king (I’ve been waiting for this video)
JR isn’t a realian he’s a metal gear esque test tube clone baby. I found the urtvs WAY more interesting then shion and kosmos
This was the first game I played after beating FFX, I remember loving it, getting a few hours and, and getting lost, spent litterly months walking and circles and couldn't figure out where I was supposed to go and would revisit the game every few years. 20 years later I'm still stuck/lost and never really got to enjoy it
Xenosaga will never be forgotten! Just you wait.
This is the one I’ve been waiting for. I don’t really care about xenogears or xenoblade chronicles. Xenosaga is where my heart lies.
I personally like Virgil. Flaws make good characters and bigotry is a big flaw. Makes you wonder what caused their point of view, what will be the arc for them, and so on. If done well, it's a great story but on the other hand when done poorly, it either defeats its own point or comes off like PSA.
Either way. Thanks for checking out the xeno series. It was nice going down memory lane with my favorite series again. Hope we get more incredible titles in the future.
They were all good games for their time, but they never struck me as hard as Xenogears. Also, I was surprised that you didn't mention the optional boss fight against Id in Xenosaga 3!
KBash not reading the data logs and not realizing...
SPOILIER
chaos is God. Lol
I... think you are misremembering things...
SPOILER
God is U-DO, not chaos.
Well... Rather, the closest thing the "Xenosaga" universe has to a God, but you know what I mean.
Great video as always!!
"I make people agree with my opinions via propaganda" is a good one
I was waiting for this!
This is probably one of my favorite game series, the music also has nostalgia musicians doin the ost for all of them and the whole package brings me so much joy as a whole. On the note of forgotten game series, have you peeped Ar Tonelico/Ar Nosurge from Gust, the Atelier so-&-so games devs?
You know, I think Pied Piper might be my favorite xenosaga story, and the discussion near the end of this video kinda confirmed that in my mind. It has by far the most focused plot, solid characters all around, and some very interesting events that I thoroughly like. Granted, I'm biased because a) Ziggy is my favorite character and b) i'm not the biggest fan of XS gameplay, so being able to just read Xenosaga was great. If you like the series, you can find translated versions of the script online and they're worth a read.