WEIRD FLEX BUT OKAY! Opinions on Red Bulls REJECTED Flexing Wing Protest
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Flexing wings are back in the news and it's Red Bull and Ferrari pointing fingers at Mercedes and McLaren over it. A case of throwing stones in a glass house? Hypocrisy? Or do Red Bull have a point?
Because the rules are detailed as to what they can and can't do with the flexing, but at the same time, where do you draw a line between designed to do that, and the laws of physics doing what they do?
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It's almost time for a beard and possibly a sweater, Mr. Storytime. Congrats on the 100k mate, glad to be a part of it.
Add a pipe and a whiskey and we got it.
@@bmstylee If I was a smoker I would absolutely smoke a pipe.
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar.
POLICE! POLICE!!!!!
Palindrome
You'll show yourself out?
Genius 😂
Oh really? I thought racecar backwards spelled you'reacunt?
As Martin Brundle has said many times, "there is no spirit of the rules, there's just the rules". Every team on the grid has used this to their advantage many, many, many times. If a design meets all the rules to the letter, then it's legal. If FIA doesn't like it, then they'll change the rules.
To quote Adrian Newey at the back end of 2012, “There’s no such thing as the spirit of the regulations, it’s the black and white print of ‘you can’t do this, you can do that.’ We took the can do bits right to the edge. The bottom line is the car was legal, we won the races.”
"Spirit of the rules" applies to sporting regs for me, not technical.
If you aren't pushing technical to the letter and the dot, you have no place in F1.
As Christian Horner pointed out in 2021, there is no "Spirit of the Rules" -- there's only the Rules as Written and the tests you have to pass. The only options are A) revise the rules, B) revise the tests, or C) treat anything that passes the existing tests as legal.
This. Close the comments section, nothing to see here.
Spirit of the rules means ZERO in ANY form of racing. It is 100% the SPECIFIC wording of the written rules. It is quite literally Your job as a Racer to exploit the written rules all the way into the darkest regions of The Grey Areas.
Your idea of following The Spirit and Intent of a poorly written rule is actually quite irrelevant. It has ALWAYS been that way in F1.
God, the earliest I remember of flexing wings is the 2006 Malaysian GP when the Ferrari rear wing was visibly flexing up and down on the straights. So this has been an issue for at least 2 decades!
@@sh-spectrum409 Ferrari had their front wing flexing in 1997
Watch the 1997 review when they get to Suzuka that year and watch the front wings go!
Even longer. In a interview, Steve Nichols said that during his stint at Ferrari in the late 80's/early 90's, there was a problem in the manufacturing of carbon fiber wings at Ferrari, were workers ignored instructions on how build the wings and did their own way.
Was that the year when a few rear wings broke? Think there was at McLaren and a couple of others
I think 98
The first time I remember it was in 2008 when the Ferrari has the moustache front wing. On the Nose Camera shots you could see the front wing obviously twisting and changing shape during the lap. It was really cool.
The front wing saga shows that the structural designers and the aerodynamicsts are fully in sync with each other. As I have a degree in aerospace, I am slightly more qualified to explain things (I said slightly more because I have hardly worked in industry).
The beauty of composite materials is its anisotropy: this means that the material strength and stiffness is different in different directions. This means that you can make it rigid in one or two axes but make it able to flex in others.
Mercedes and McLaren exploited this. The reason they probably can pass the static load test is because they designed it so that the wing would stay stiff when you put a weight on from the top. However, they would take advantage of aerodynamic loads creating a twist where the loads (plural) induces a moment on the axis of the wing.
This was actually experimented by the end of the 2014 season by Red Bull but the FIA at that time were like "ummmmm...no we don't think it can be legal" despite no actual legality test in place.
It sounds like ferrari are bringing a new front wing to singapore so I'd say their queries were them getting the greenlight to finish their own
My guess is, that RB and Ferrari didn't primarily protest them to ban them, but to have clarity on weither or not it's worth to copy them so they aren't banned right afterwards.
It would also explain some performance deficit for RB in the handling department, as they'd most likely take a hit in cornering speed over a lower topspeed relative to a car with flexing wing.
Exactly
From what I understand, its far more impactful than that.
These wings are designed to purposefully create understeer in high speed corners. That seems to have as desirable a side effect, that the cars get easier to setup and drive. Noticed how Mercedes after 2+ years of struggles, suddenly became competitive when they introduced such a wing in Monaco? Mercedes always struggled with setting up their car. It was either good on straights, fast corners, mediums corners or slow corners. But never everywhere. They just could not get their car into a window to make it perform. Then they introduced such a wing and problems where gone. Then they could start adding performance upgrades to their car because they now have a setup window to work with. McLaren has been doing the same.
Meanwhile RBR seems to finally have hit a development dead end. They mastered these regulations because they where the only team who managed to set their cars up and add performance to such a great extend. But now they are struggling to set their car up in an ever tightening setup window and seem to have issues with the airflow staying connected from front to rear. Because they where getting such incredible performance by setting their cars up on a knife edge. Not it seems to be impossible to balance them out anymore. Even a freak talent like Verstappen can't handle it anymore. Perez has long since struggled with it.
I suspect RBR wanted these wings banned, because they realized it would really set McLaren and Mercedes back. Ferrari might want clarification. Now the question is, did RBR and/or Ferrari already prepare such wing designs? If so, when are they being introduced? Because if they do that, I would not be surprised to see them jump at least Mercedes, maybe also McLaren. This because they are/where already getting performance without them. It should make it easier for them to get it out of their cars with such wings. Especially RBR might be interesting if they can unlock what the RB20 has.
@@DanielWW2 Red Bull’s problem is that they did _not_ manage to master these regulations. They developed a car with an inherent vulnerability which they’ve known was there, and they’ve reached a point where they can no longer engineer around it. Their car performed beautifully, but with extremely stiff suspension, and now they are struggling against the limits of that suspension
A380 may be the Goddess, but 747 will always be my Queen Of The Skies. I will forever begrudge the fact that I will never be able to fly with 747. A big shame for an aerospace engineering graduate.
Also, flex-wing also saw use once in road car. I think Ferrari got it first with the chin spoiler on the 458 Italia. The Speciale doesn't have that, instead it got two flaps that opened when air rushes at certain speed.
I got the fly in a 747 at the back end of 2019 just before they were all grounded and retired due to COVID - certainly something I can tick off the bucket list
Check out 74Gear, Captain Kelsey flies a 747, usually cargo. He does lots of different videos but sometimes he shows things "behind the scenes" onboard. Fun channel!
A380 is an ugly plow maiden .
Got to fly on a 747 in the mid 2000s. It really did live up to the hype. But I think I actually enjoyed flying on the A340 more. It was super nice and had quirky features.
Lufthansa still has 8 in service I was able to fly in one this year from the US to Europe. Amazing experience, I flew in them back in the 80s but was not big enough to understand the whole experience
The tests define what is legal.
The written rule that "All aerodynamics components...must be rigidly secured and immobile" is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve and therefore a nonsense rule - all you have is the load tests to determine legality.
Anything subjected to a load is also subject to a deflection because nothing is infinitely stiff.
You're telling me that NASCAR spoilers bend at Daytona?
Obviously I'm not asking about molecular levels of change, but any visible change, as normal human communication would imply when using terms like rigid or flexing.
You can get tablets for that.
@@lightfeather9953 NASCAR spoilers don't produce anywhere near the amount of downforce that F1 car wings do. The NASCAR spoilers do bend, but it's not as obvious as on an F1 car.
@@JustSomeGuyWithNoMaidens NASCAR spoilers also don't need to bend as much because they're a lot more rigid by having a lot less movable parts than an F1 wing.
My shaft is
Red Bull is in the same place as Brawn - brought something new at the start of the season that works great, then unable to continue developing it. In this case, the rub is the cost cap and reduced wind tunnel time. Now they have to hang on and hope the early advantage is enough.
I totally agree about Pressing Issues! VCPR was my favorite radio station in Vice City by far.
If we were meant to be monogamous, why weren’t we born already married?
Oh man I loved that. Often I'd wait until the episode had finished before doing a mission
I said this under the video from The Race as well, but with discussions about flexi wings coming up again, F1 is truly back in its natural state.
RB and Ferrari have a definite point in my opinion
They really don’t.
@@Mind-your-own-beeswax how do you figure ?
@@houseofancientsthe point is that when RB had a flexi rear wing, which stood all the FIA tests, three weeks later new regs where in effect and now FIA is inert. Ferrari and RB brought this way before the summer break. It’s manipulative. The same when Mercedes had to shorten their floor in 2021. It’s becoming a kind of a World Wrestling Federation shit show.
Only advice we can give to Horner is "fix your fhkn car!".
😄
On Tuesday 3rd September 2024 I went on the internet and found this, missed opportunity.
@@SabotageDesigns was too busy laughing at Birmingham tbh.
@@AidanMillwardthat’s understandable 😂
But, but they complained when our wing/floor flexed 😂
That was Mercedes, that TD backfired on them and Ferrari
Floors can’t flex… duh
@@reesbritton6623 it can
@reesbritton6623 tell that to Ferrari 🤣🤣
Google Ferrari flexy floor 👍 it was a prev rule set but thier floor flexed.
Hey hey !!! nice shout out for Pressing issues @ 00:40. I'm gonna go play GT3 this evening :D
But honestly, 3mm of Bending with a load of 60N? That’s roughly 6 kg. That’s pretty soft for a carbon construction.
@@Max-hy9ud you know more than me 💁🏻♂️
@@AidanMillward I’ve seen so many things. I studied Aircraft engineering for Airbus. It’s crazy what you can do with carbon composite.
i recall redbull and ferrari getting dinged for wing flex in the past, so yea i can see why those 2 teams are upset why and how mclaren and mercedes are getting away w/ this
Look, legal or not, the recent videos of the front wings, they have quite a bit of flex. They look exactly like the videos used to demonstrate "too much flex" last year. Its a substantial flex. But why would FIA change anything this year? The racing is great! So what if Merc and Mclarin are "flexing" the rules lol
There was a push in 2010 at Belgium Grand Prix after allegations that Red Bull’s front wing were flexing by the end plates to generate more downforce by running closer to the ground.
9:51 it should probably go without saying that one shouldn't attempt this as they'll likely not make it there before being crash tackled by several security personnel and swiftly escorted off the premises into the hands of waiting police officers.
The wings are dynamic devices. They need a dynamic test - not a static test.
The rules are always evolving... and the FIA continues to push toward standardization, while the teams pull away. This is part of the game in my opinion.
Truly a flexing moment
If it’s not one team it’s another. How Lando can look at a car with a flex wing and not think he’s cheating is beyond me
🤦♀️ he doesn’t think he is cheating because he isn’t
From 2010 to 2013, Vettel and Red Bull won eight (4 WDCs and 4 CWCs) world championships with an 'illegal' flexi front wing. Everyone could see it flexing under race conditions, but the FIA couldn't devise a test that would prove it, so they couldn't do anything about it. Until that was in 2014 when they worked out how RB was doing it and altered the test to detect it. The wing failed the test at the Abu Dhabi qualifying as I recall, and Vettel and Ricciardo ended being disqualified and going to the back of the grid.
They say all teams are cheating as if that makes it ok, but if cheating is allowed if you cant work out how they are doing it even though you can see they are doing it, it just seems wrong that points gained from it can be kept. Horner himself complained about the points they lost to Ferrari when Ferrari were cheating with their fuel delivery system for example, so maybe only some teams feel they should keep points gained by cheating and not others lol.
I'm lucky that I live 1/2 mile from 36R at CVG and we have like 8 DHL 747-800's that come in nightly. On Sundays though they land and take off during the day. It amazes me every time I see them flying so low and slow on approach.
If the wings pass the test, they're legal. If the FIA change the test, that's up to them though it would be unusual for them to do so within the year (unless for "safety").
Same argument held when it was Red Bull flexi-front-wings.
FIA did add tests mid-season for flex-wings issue. I cannot remember whether it was 2022 or 2021. It was quite recent. However FIA did announce the added test before the summer break that time. May be that is the reason FIA does not do the add tests thing again. It is now after the summer break and teams do not have time to make adjustment.
It's really hard to have an opinion on this because I'm not an engineer. I guess that if they're both within the laws of physics (because they can't be broken) and the FIA's, even if they look dodgy to everyone else, they're legal 🤷🏻♀️.
As an engineer, I say let the engineers play. This is exactly the kind of simple elegant solution I absolutely love.
Non-engineers thing "rigid" means it doesn't move. EVERYTHING moves. It's just how much is allowed and, with F1, how it is tested.
Find out where the test is, make the rest flex
@@j.3o21 And that's exactly what they have done. Then the FIA adjusts the test, then the teams adjust the parts. It's a beautiful cycle.
It's because of ratings. That's why McLaren can have their wings flex.
WWF1
LOL no
@@valerierodger yeah you're right. All the speculation as to why But seeing a correlation between viewership decline and a dramatic competition increase right before the quarterly reports is absolutely ridiculous.
Like financially motivated corruption in sports isn't real. LOL
If the FIA say the wings are legal, then that's it as far as I'm concerned.
An A380 wing can flex up to 6 meters up and down mid flight on the top.
Think of that flex when you see F1 wings.
Or those 40° bends of a B787 and A350 wing.
@@Max-hy9ud quick, think of something that’s six metres tall/long so Americans won’t have to use the metric system!
Adrian Newey has moved from Red Bull Racing at the moment that RB really needed him. Talk about getting caught with pants down.
There are 2 kinds of innovations in F1 these days. One is an innovation that makes the car better in some way and the other is innovating a way to ban a rival team's innovation instead of actually making an effort to beat them.
Noticed the wings flexing alot more than normal on the 2023 Aston Martin while alonso was racking up all the podiums, from the TV camera above the drivers head you could clearly see the wing not just flexing downwards but also flattening out alot, based on in slow speed corner you couldn't see the cognizant logo but as the speed built down the straight it was very very clear because of the wing flexing flat.
They all flex obviously but look back at the on boards of the Aston compared to the others at that time, to me it was flexing alot more than the others at the time, might be worth a look back to add on to this one when it comes up again in a couple of weeks
great video, going to be interesting to see what happens, Red Bull's lack of pace would be explained if McClaren and Mercedes had suddenly found something, what suggests to me that it is legal is the fact that Mercedes seem to have just copied it for lack or a better word rather than go to the FIA about McC;aren.
I wouldn’t call it “a little bit of trickery” that is not “within the spirit of the rules.” I would call it clever engineering, exploiting loopholes.
If the FIA deems something is legal, then it is legal. If Red Bull were using asymmetrical braking, they weren’t doing anything illegal because it wasn’t against the regulations at the time.
I think all this show refers somewhat to professional wrestling - to make great stories and large following.
F1 used to be 100 % technical exercise and competition but now it is 95% entertainment.
Notice that the front wing actually works at close proximity to ground making it very efficient in terms of L/D. On the other had the rear wing is high up and has a small aspect ratio. That’s why DRS works well there, because the static rear wing is a massive induced drag. However, the front wing is not as simple as that either because the front wing affects to the rest of the car and all the teams aim for “outwash” to maximise the underbody and front wing downforce - underbody which also is close to ground and thus good L/D.
To have an allowed flex is not about avoiding to make the wing “too strong”. It is because every structure flexes under load and you just have to set a line somewhere - and you could get major advances getting the flex big and right. The real problem is that with flex comes also aerolastic problems, oscillating behaviour, that could results to something bad. Aerodynamics can be a bit difficult at times but aeroelasticity is hugely bigger challenge and for every 100 aerodynamicists there exists only one aeroelasticity specialist among them. It is extremely difficult to model because of the nature of circulation and turbulence coupled with structural stiffness and damping - and with race cars it is even way more bigger challenge than with airplanes. So - nobody really wants to go in that so the flex allowed flex is quite limited. Everybody is looking for a gain but wants to keep it well in bay because it spirals very quickly.
Another great topic to ponder is why don’t they give the same front and rear wings to every team? This principle is used in some parts in various categories - I believe even in F1 there are standard parts. It is always the teams that are leading who oppose - vested interests.
Regards from a professional aerodynamicist.
Shout out to Maurice Chavez!!! Love it!
@@CarOfTheWeekNStuff that’s “Chavez”. Not “Chaves”, or “Cha-Veese”
I don't remember which team it was, but rear wing supports were bending backward at the base which changed the angle of attack of the wing for reduced drag at speed.
Red Bull in ‘21.
@@IsshinShirosaki Okay, I missed that one ... I'm thinking much further back than that. Just goes to show there isn't much new they are trying, just trying old things a new way :)
The one I'm thinking of was, IIRC, the first time they started putting heavy weights on the wings. At the time I think it was literally sand bags.
@@IsshinShirosaki No it was Mercedes in 2021. Remember when Max touched Hamiltons rear wing? Alot of people say that wing was how Merc turned that season around.
@@gebhardts1638it was red bull. They was given three race's in 2021 to change the rear wing as it was dropping back under load giving less drag on the straight, it was after that in 2021 that max got done for touching the Mercedes car, but no investigation by the fia into the Mercedes rear wing was done in 2021 only on the red bull car, the fia put load testing sensors and cameras on the red bull car to check how much it was moving under racing conditions. They decided the red bull rear wing was being pushed back to far under load, the worst part about that was the fia said red bull rear wing was illegal but red bull got away with no penalty and given three race's to fix it,
@@gebhardts1638 Verstappen touched Hamilton's rear wing, exacerbating the already damaged rear wing. The Red Bull rear wing was the one that had been flexing in '21
I'd say it's legal enough, the issue is even if it was illegal you can't really enforce a rule with so many gray areas like this
Hello Aidan: I am at one with you regarding the A380. I have flown in them a few times and they are noticeable quieter than 747s. Have a lovely day.
They could just change the points being tested next year and say any point of the wing. They could also ban multi-element front wings by stipulating a contiguous wing surface. It's not hard to stop Flexi wings if they want to but I suspect by next year everyone will have developed one anyway if the rest remain in situ.
THere is probably pros and cons for both arguments. The big question that keeps coming to mind is "Is it fair to penalize a team who resects the spirit of the rules vs a team who chose to interpret the rule othe letter?" Unless the FIA con positively control the wing flex at all times and be able to prove without a doubt that with the vehicle in motion the wing was designed and calculated to flex beyond the limitations of the rules in a given set condition then its nearly impossible to regulate.
The solution would befor FIA to legislate wing deign, meaning dimensions as well as section, layers and material thickness type etc. Then we again would be closer to a spec series .. something F1 has always been avoiding. This would probably stall the sport. Given FIA track record .. . Look at the tire situation once FIA regulated that lol
Great job as always!
I love your channel, it's so....civilized! (er..civilised, sorry for the American spelling; noisey neighbours, you know...)
Can't RB and Ferrari just go back to the way the car(s) were/was at the beginning of the season, when they, especially Red Bull were so much faster? Are Merc and Mcleran(boo, you crapped on Hingecliffe so you're bad guys.) currently faster than Ferrari and RB were at the start? What? ...............................also great music.
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
There's no Formula 1 car quite as sexy as the Lotus 72, especially in JPS black and gold.
After thinking, reading and processing information that has come out in the last 3 or so weeks.
I think Red Bulls problems are more than just a value that might have aided in rotating the car under breaking. But more of the a bunch of smaller issues, and the possible valve and the other teams catching up to explain where their current preformance of the RB cars stand
Aren't the 2026 rules set to be based around flexible and movable wings anyway? Can't see them making any rule changes just for one season.
only flexi wing controversy i've been around for was 2021. it's honestly not entertaining to see teams trying their hardest to get an innovation banned instead of developing their own version
Fair play to McLaren and Merc if theyve found clever solutions to the rules. To borrow from a certain Mr Massey "its a motor race", catch up. Shouldnt be banned, the rest need to catch up.
I'd never call that disgrace Mr Anything 🤣
I can't believe he's even allowed to watch motorsports on TV let alone be at races and actually employed.
@@adem1781 lol, I admit he was a bit of a farce but his slap down to Wolff was just hilarious.
@@zeberto1986 Nah it was a mockery of the sport. The sport has never felt _right_ since. I don't care if he said a "funny meme"
I feel like people don't care because they hate Lewis for _reasons_ or they just wanted a new winner. But it was absolutely disgusting and unforgivable.
He's responsible for a fake title being gifted to someone and he brought the sport into disrepute. Him "dunking" on someone whilst doing it makes him even more of a disgrace to me.
_A bit of a farce_
No a total disgrace. It's sad to see people even downplay what he did.
It wasn't any different to a ref in the world cup final deciding that Brazil being 4-0 isn't "entertaining" for the final 20 mins so fuck it let's give em 5 penalties the opponents have a goalie injured but fuck it "it's entertainment" so let's let em do it but not give them an oppo to sub on a goalie.
@@adem1781 Im not down playing what Massey did but seriously it was nearly 3 years ago. Dont you think enough is enough when it comes to moaning about Abu Dhabi 21. It happened, Max was crowned champion and thats it. OVER. To carry on like this for so long you either need help or youre sourer than the most bitter lemon. Btw Im neither a Max or Lulu fan and I didnt care who won the title in 21.
@@zeberto1986
Anyone with any moral backbone would still be disgusted. As an example Roy Jones Jr is still disgusted at what happened to him at the 1988 Olympics and who could blame him.
But the fact you said
"Max or Lulu" quite frankly has lost my interest in continuing the chat.
I've never had a constructive conversation with people that call Lewis that and usually the end up being quite deplorable so I think I'll leave this here respectfully.
Down force doesn't necessarily push the car down to the road it technically pulls the car to the road. Same as lift on an airplane's wings pulls the airplane up but upside down.
"Redbull takes your wings" doesn't quite have the same ring to it
I figured every car on the grid was doing this at least to a degree. So, how much more is their wing flexing that Red Bull feels the need to cry about it?
I honestly don't really care about wing elements flexing. If the FIA wants to crack down on it they will. If the FIA doesn't, every team will have it eventually. I generally take the Smokey Yunick approach to racecars - it doesn't say I can't, so I'm going to.
It’s a bit weird the FIA isn’t adressing this properly. In 2021 it was adressed quit swiftly and rightly so. This is going on for a couple of races and the FIA has been stalling. Yo could have given clearity much sooner because footage of the Mclaren wing was quit revealing. The FIA wanted to do nothing just to undermine the then dominance of the RB20. But there isn’t any consistency in their dealings. Mark my words. RB and Ferrari will introduce a new, Mclaren like wing and two weeks later new rulings will be announced
flexing moment
The thicker the rule book gets, the more all the cars look the same. 😢
We want more diversity and creativity.
Cut the rule book in half!! 😅
There's two rules book's. Both bigger than the bible. Most of the rules are down to safety. Then fair racing.
Oh flexy wing
Oh flexy flexy
You're so confusing
Vexy vexy
Red Bull mastered this in the early 2010's. They managed to get it to the point where it was like having movable aero.
SO FUNNY TO SEE THEM CRY ABOUT IT NOW.
Well isn't that the point. If they weren't allowed why should anyone else.
@@alicekoppenol-pitti6257
They were allowed though?
I realise early 2010's were a while ago and not _every_ fan will remember it or have been watching back then so no disrespect meant but.
Wing flex was a big discussion for a long old while in 2010 and 2011 as Aidan pointed out.
I'm not complaining that Red Bull did it. One of the few things I don't have issue with them about. I'm laughing at them complaining about it _Now_
Red Bull's (and later Ferrari's) front wings sometimes flapped like butterflys back then, But they passed every test during the years they were used and Red Bull cleverly found a way to do it.
Rumours at the time had it down to the _exact_ way they manufactured carbon fibre. I don't know how valid those rumours were though and i'm really extending my memory to put a face to those rumours. FIA tightened that all up from 2012 onwards IIRC and it went away.
Until 2021 when Red Bull and Mercedes were both at it
*BUT*
For once this isn't a Red Bull vs Mercedes thing, this is purely me laughing at Red Bull throwing stones in glass houses.
If you look for search terms like Red Bull moveable wing and stuff like that you'll eventually find videos about this from 2010-2012 (with some 2013 mentions too)
Unfortunately the video quality is abysmal, it's what we had to work with 14 years ago.
In it you will see comments explaining how the FIA deemed this legal and other teams should "copy it"
@@adem1781 understood. The capital letters and accusing them of crying about it suggested something different.
@@adem1781this is not Redbull throwing rocks at a glass house... Come.on don't be double standard, 21 Redbull passed the TEST...so it was legal but fia still changed the way they test to make them illegal, why is different now? Why don't they update the way they test now?
Don't forget the politics.
Red Bull are watching their championship lead slip away and will try anything to impede the challenging team (Maclaren). Meanwhile Ferrari believe they are so entitled that they will join any protest against another team. At this moment the only thing stopping Lando winning the championship is Zak Brown, if he decides to gift Oscar another win.
That and Lando's inability to convert pole position into victories. If he can't get off the line quick enough, then he has no hope of catching Verstappen.
Red Bull still bitter about Rob Marshall moving to McLaren then 😹
This being “against the spirit of the rules” is bullshit, coming from the team that’s being saying “no such thing as spirit” while Newey’s was in post. It’s also a big step to say the FIA don’t check, they get pressure to do this constantly. Gary Anderson used to stand on his Jordon front wings all the time as it takes much more force to bend them.
I know I’ve posted that sentiment before, but the interview with Zak Brown, at Canada I think, was revealing, when he said that if you go find Rob in the garage for a chat, “he always has a piece of their car in his hands”. Just shows some people run big departments not touching anything more than spreadsheet summaries & graphs, while some do so while still being connected to the engineering components. The former’s great for incremental progression, while the later are often the people who can produce those big steps in performance, because they understand it more like a physical puzzle.
I know Peter Prodromou’s department designs the aero, but Marshall is the guy who understands the material science and where one bit of the car affects the next. He’s been the catalyst for the improved front geometry and increased rear grip of the MCL 38. So what if some of its cribbed from the Red Bull, why isn’t Pierre Waché creation the faster car then?
A friend from the motorsports engineering program has a picture of 5 or 6 people (weighing north of 1,000 lbs) stranding on a wing of a car built my his company he is part owner of.
I got it.
Have all wings built by an outside contractor to FIA spec's and have the teams bolt them on their cars' nose cone at each track then remove them to leave the track!
Done. Dusted and Fixed.
Not done, dusted and fixed imo sorry.
That's "Spec" wings.
This would mean the only innovation would come from bodywork and engines.
If you are suggesting teams develop the design then send them to an outside FIA approved contractor. Sadly this will just end up being :
"Lewis Hamilton drove within 50 minutes of the factory, clearly he and Ferrari are cheating and have introduced Vibranium and Admantium into the mixture"
As they say in NASCAR, "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!
I have a question, why are flexing wings illegal? If they have been around for so long then it isnt like the DAS system that was banned because it would be too hard for the other teams to develop it.
If it's safe, just let it happen. Why interfere with competitive advantage? That's the whole point.
O the irony of Red bull complaining about flexy wings. Given the early 2010s haha
Sour grapes by Red Bull & Ferrari. They have both got away with wings flexing more in the past, and won titles. The FIA test the wings, so if they pass that test, there is nothing to answer.
I remember in 2010 those two teams were the only team to get their front wings flexing
That's exactly why they are protesting, do you have 0 critical thinking skills? Ferrari have one coming in Singapore anyway.
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 Exactly. Can’t stand the whining from other teams. Build your own. McLaren should win the constructors, and the drivers there too for Lando, if McLaren do the right thing in time.
@@elianioriofarrell WTF are you taking about? Stupid comment, from a stupid person. Don’t whine, build your own.😂😂
@@elianioriofarrell idiot.😂😂
What would happen if you made the vertical flaps that keep the continuity of the wing illegal, or maybe mandate smaller flaps. seems to me if the wing flexes so much that it would open the gap, that the turbulence at least could limit the gains from the amount the wings flex.
Crazy idea... why don't they just allow flexy wings? Have all the teams on an even playing field by allowing flexible body work designed like airplanes
Because they did that before and the car's became unsafe.
@@chriscollins550 but now they might be so stiff they are unsafe
They should make the flexi-wings illegal the day AFTER Lando wins the WDC!
just check art 3.2.2 to the letter. "all aerodynamic components or bodywork influencing
the car’s aerodynamic performance must be rigidly secured and immobile with respect to
their frame of reference defined in Article 3.3. Furthermore, these components must produce
a uniform, solid, hard, continuous, impervious surface under all circumstances" every single front wing has been illegal TO THE LETTER since 2022. they all have the cut near the nose that is specifically designed to flex, so the wings are not rigidly secured or immobile in their frame of reference. THEY ALL ARE DOING IT. you can see the sliding plates on every t cam. thats why accusations have no traction. the fia are hypocrites, they should either allow flexi wings or actually apply the rules
and dont tell me about the static tests because if ur in violation of one rule it doesnt matter if u pass another
It turn would've turned around differently if Ferrari had lodged protest. We know history.
This is just the usual, they've done a better job than us to allow something to happen whilst passing the test (read: Ferrari fuel flow sensor), if the wings pass the test, they pass the test, Red Bull and Ferrari etc, need to do a better job to pass the test but get the outcome they want
You'll find out next year/2026 with the Newey effected Aston. :-)
That's a bingo!
Everybody says the wings are going to flex. Sure I get it but the outboard section isn't even connected to the to the nose of the car. Just tell the teams that the outboard section must connect to the nose. No more slide plate thing that all of them have.
When "spec series" began appearing I lamented the creativity and engineering advances lost. Now almost all racing is "spec" and the rules are the rules and if you get caught in violation you're punished accordingly.... EXCEPT F1. Frankly F1 has made me appreciate the spec series because of the way FIA handles rule determinations. WAY TOO MUCH opportunity for favoritism or ignoring violations in F1 by the FIA and the endless bickering among teams reminds me of the old ladies at the local church bingo nights. THOSE gals always find something they want to complain about. Someone else is always cheating but not them, there effing angels.
Fat bo-zo ;)
Love your work man, keep it up :)
Query - Clarification - ban or copy - its the F1 way - same shit different day - moving on...
What's the air pressure on the wing weigh at 180mph? Use that weight to test wings.
That air pressure is spread across the entire surface of each wing element. Really hard to replicate in a static test as these are usually point load tests
@@Lewythefly wouldn’t the actual air pressure on that particular day come into affect as well?
@@AidanMillward yes, at higher altitude the air is "thinner" that's why they run such large rear wings in Mexico
@@AidanMillward air is a liquid, so image the difference driving through air or water or honey. Thinner the liquid, the less pressure exerted on the wing
Why does the FIA care so much? As long as it's safe let em do it.
Aeroelasticity goes brrrrrr
They arnt breaking the rules, they are bending them harhar
Great caption
Redbull needs to stop crying about front wings
Cough 115 cough
Element 115 (Moscovium or Divinium in game) is an element that appears in the Call of Duty Black Ops games which has a major role in the Zombies storyline. It's often depicted as a powerful and mysterious element that has various effects, such as reanimating the dead and causing unusual phenomena. In the game’s lore, it plays a crucial role in the creation of zombies and other supernatural events within the storyline.
Maybe they should just build a better car… 🤷🏼♂️
Great Piece (..in German)
Uno Reverse Card in play here, for it is those screaming hypocrisy that are themselves hypocritical - we can accuse Red Bull and Ferrari of cheating, but they can't do the same to us, that's not fair, we *never* do anything wrong. Oh, chuff off. This goes as far back as 2007 in my mind's eye, when Red Bull were accused of excessive rear wing flex. Nothing at all to do with Newey having just joined them, nope, not at all, said Ferrari and McLaren, we're just raising a concern, that's all. Uh huh...
Are you schizophrenic?
Spirit of the rules is a non sensical concept. If there is something more than the wording of rhe rules then tell us. Maybe WRITE it down in .. I don't know, maybe in the rulebook?
I think there's nothing wrong with flex wings. So long as teams don't hide something from opponents and all is left clearly visible, then what is the problem? All teams should be able to develop flex wings to suit their needs. Sometimes you have to let teams develop things in order to see how wild far they take it, before you can begin to consider rules preventing things like too much wing flex. I don't think we've come close to reaching that point yet. But time will tell what the FIA and teams crying over it will do as far as new rules go.
There is something wrong with it, last time the fia let it happen the car's became dangerous and part's was breaking off or flipping them up in the air. This is why this regulations come into place.
@@chriscollins550 Obviously having parts too flimsy they break off is bad. It sound like shabby craftsmanship and design. Safety should be at the forefront of all car designs done by teams.
@@InterestedAmerican the problem was the team's pushed the flexing to far and Fatigue was happening over a race weekend and fractures was happening leading to breaking up, when the regulations was changed all the team's agreed on none flexing wings and body part's for safety. The team's agreeing to it means they should stay within the regulations they all ask to have,
@@chriscollins550 Okay, I understand now. This information I didn't know. So the FIA did say, "have at it" for flex wing, but they became too weak and became a danger, causing teams and FIA to reel back and create some rules to insure safety. That makes sense.
Just make flexible wings legal
So it’s legal then and all other teams will copy it.
In 2021, a quick word from Mercedes was all it took to get the FIA to change the regulations.
Now almighty Ferrari and current champion RBR complain and the FIA brushes them off like dandruff.
Curious.
@@f.kieranfinney457 2021 also being the year where the FIA made changes to the lower raked cars. Like the Mercedes. And would you look a that someone else one a championship.
Pirelli made the request to modify floors on everyone not just low rake, stop lying....and everyone expected high rake to suffer more for obvious reasons, ... So the floor modifications theory is just cra ppy 💩@@rexthewolf3149
4 team's made that complaint, it's funny how people only remember Mercedes.
Aidan, please don't tell me you're a blues and bruins fan?
The roll hoop doesn’t flex… and it doesn’t snap either.
@@fleghel Zhou at Silverstone 2022 would like a word.
@@AidanMillward well, i should’ve specified that “doesn’t flex under aero load” lol
Point taken… and i agree with your points.