I was able to hold one as a kid, my godfather (very much not Finnish) owned one and it was the first firearm I touched. Because of that, up until this video I had no idea how rare it is.
Also one thing Jatimatic was famous (or infamous) here in Finland was a series of post office robberies back in early 90's. I remember being around 7 or 8 years old when i saw the local post office being robbed and i still remember the silhuette of Jatimatic that 2nd one of the robbers carried
I wonder if it was one of those that got stolen from the factory. I might be incorrect, but i do remember seeing a jatimatic in midst of confiscated firearms that were found while police raided biker gang's club house.
@@paskaalisaapaskaa5354 There totally was a photo like that published some years back, in Alibi magazine at least I think? Considering the overall scarcity of the gun, that gun pretty much has to be one of those stolen ones.
There were actually two versions of the second variety Jati-matics (the type with the straight inclined receiver top), both of which were tested by the US Army in 1990. Both did come with a detachable stock but one had a rotating lever-type selector similar to an M16 in addition to the foregrip safety. According to the Army report, the manufacturer stated the change was to: "...to improve user confidence in the weapon. Initial feedback to the manufacturer showed that some less experienced users did not feel comfortable with the 2-stage pressure sensitive trigger. Thus, a weapon was developed to manually switch between the two modes of fire." All in all the Army found the Jati-matic was reasonably easy to control, either one or two handed, light, and probably cheap/easy to make. On the down side they found the sights lacking and the stock difficult to affix and detach, and when attached bulky. AD B150821 - Technical Report ARCCD-TR-90005, "Evaluation of the 'JATI-MATIC' 9 mm SMG," Dec 1990, Gregg L. Gibson, U.S. Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, Close Combat Armaments Center, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey
The fact that FIRE on the bolt is deeply engraved means you could feel it as well as see it. That's a nice touch which could help you check its status in the dark.
Yeah it was some kind of laser sight about the full length of the gun, probably weighed about as much too. I believe there was one in Red Dawn (80's version) in the trainyard shoot out- sans laser
If my memory serves me right there was a semiauto prototype made with a stock and longer barrel aimed at the US civilian market. I remember seeing a photo in a 80's Finnish ASE-magazine. Jali got the idea for the gun when his .22 target pistol prototype with the same slanted design malfunctioned and emptied the whole magazine in the blink of an eye. When he went to see his target he noticed that all the bullets were grouped relatively close together when one would think that the first shot would be on target and the rest in the sky. He had his heureka moment there but sadly the end product wasn't quite up to par.
@@Chiller01 FWIW, the "h" sound is actually correct in ancient Greek, though this is the first I've seen it written this way in English. A very cool "typo."
@@danspragens4935 I’m not being either ironic or sarcastic. Having moved from the US to Canada my autocorrect is British. Colour has replaced color and grey has replaced gray. This is just an evolution into Finnish/English, as I’m not conversant in Ancient Greek.
In my understanding, that was the biggest flaw with it for governments. Too big to holster so sling is required in practical use, but that almost quarantees that it will disassemble itself sooner rather then later. For me it's weird how a gun designer who obviously knew his job, didn't come up with anything else to prevent that from happening. Some kind of simple two sided spring catch required to be pressed would have prevented any of the problems...
@@johncox2865 I thought that at first too, but then the sling would be pulling on the mount. Unless the gun is upside down and facing you, pulling would try and close the level, not open it up- the direction of force is wrong for normal use of the gun to disassemble itself. Though, who wants to take that risk, I guess? Some freak accidents and stuff does happen sometimes
I appreciate the sheer simplicity of the weapon from an engineering perspective, but the non-parallel design of the PDW between the body and the barrel makes my brain itch.
@@markuskoivisto I did hear that part, but then he immediately pointed out what I thought would happen, people would try to aim by holding the body parallel to the ground which was not correct. Aesthetics are not the priority when designing weapons, but sometimes form and function are intertwined.
A case study in ergonomics. Ergonomics don't just mean "making it comfortable to use;" they're also important in making it so that the equipment is *used correctly.* Bad ergonomics can make otherwise well-crafted equipment effectively useless.
@@markuskoivisto He means the upper receiver-half not being parallel, and that has nothing to do with preventing muzzle-climb, which is also the reason, that "golden gun"-company changed that, going from an upper receiver-half with a disturbing deep curve, to a straght one...The only function previously was aesthetics, meaning, the upper receiver-half being parallel to the lower receiver-half... "Golden Gun" changed that, which made it less nice-looking, but also less disturbing while shooting
In the nineties when I was 6-7 years old, me and some friends of mine were playing with wooden "guns" which were tree branches really, and the best ones were called Jatimatics :D I really dont know where the name came, but I would quess someones older brother or father had seen Cobra and told his kid the name. But the name always was a synonym for the best wooden branch gun in our childhood games.
I participated in shooting event with all sort of guns brought by collectors, 20mm Lahti down. The representive of the company that bought the rights was there to demonstrate the gun. Jams, and he even managed to disassemble the gun while firing. Like Ian demonstrated in 6:10
It was also in a limited-edition Marvel series called Mad Dog, of course back in the 80's. Character in the story says that Mad Dog chose it because it was able to be fired one-handed full-auto and be controllable.
The comic was from DC, called Wild Dog, and it was probably meant to compete with Marvel's Punisher. He did have a Jatimatic, though. The insane part is how the reporter in the first story describes Wild Dogs use of body armor, tasers, and a couple other gadgets as giving him "comparable performance to Superman". I did wonder why the Jatimatic was claimed to be so controllable, since comic writers usually get about half of their gun facts right (Larry Hama excepted). This video explains a lot about the claim.
@@VorpalDerringer Yes, sorry, Wild Dog! Right! The Committee For Social Change! "We are not left wing, nor are we right wing, we simply... ARE!" Now it's all flooding back! That was from a time when I was buying comics left and right, and Wild Dog came out at the same time as Marvel's New Universe (also a flop), and I had conflated them in my head as all being from the same company! Now I've got the original cover in my head... thanks!
I've been a fan of this one for years and years,this the second video Ian's done on this,I just think this gun was ahead of its time..such a smart simple peice of kit.
I love this thing. It's hard to imagine why nobody wanted it. It had to be very easy and inexpensive to produce. A folding stock could have easily been added. If the tilted barrel was a big issue that could have been made straight in line with the receiver.
Very, very good, with just a couple of things to keep your mind on when using. Very easy to clean, field-strip, un-jam... I loved the muzzle-anti-climp- features
Oooh, i have been waiting for this. I remember the video you did on one years back, and hoping for a more thorough look of it, now all we need is shooting footage :D
A finnish military friend of my fathers, who had the pleasure to shoot the Jatimatic for a while - quite some years ago - said that he felt that it is an awesome point shooter, for intuitive targeting "from the hip", and he was fairely experienced in the SMG genre, you could say. He said, the magazines were outstanding, rugged & reliable. He too said, the trigger was awful, though.
There was a rumor, back in the day, that there were several of these made with same serial numbers from the factory...Buddy of mine told me that he had some acquaintance, connection etc to someone close to the factory and he was offered one "under the table "...I would guess this was at the end, after no contracts for military etc had materialized and money was tight... My buddy declined, he was intrigued of the gun in technical point of view but he didn't want anything to do with any illegal activities. (He was quite a tinker and always interested in some technical gadgets) I also heard at least one instance when one, ehm, group had bought one of these(they were no robbers etc, just "Jatimatic? Yeah cool gun, how much?"), and one of the guys decided that after a couple of beers it was a magnificent idea to shoot full auto burst from the back door to the ground in backyard. With closest house with occupants being a few hundred yards away. And closest police station 10 mins away. That gun was probably thrown into a close by river at that same night.... I also happened to see in mid90s a brochure of the Golden Gun Jatimatics. I always thought that their brochure was the worst. I mean you are trying to sell PDW to some military, LE etc. And then you come up with this brochure that has your guns displayed with guys next to a Finnish APC, Pasi, guys wearing camo. And holding GOLD plated PDWs....Yeah, gold plated....Hence "Golden Gun"....
The silhouette is actually very similar to olympic .22 free pistols and air pistols. This is one of the guns where an actual arm brace would have made sense.
I really wished we could see Ian shooting that one in slow motion, the mechanism against muzzle climb is interesting! I think they could have added a bigger hand stop on this unfolded front grip because it doesn't look super safe for the fingers, if one doesn't pay attention one day...
Very cool. We tend to think that everything should look a way but often our bodies do better with asymmetrical design. Something you may be interested in there is a channel called Scholagladitoria that is similar to your exept for older weapons. Asymmetrical design was far more common in older weapons.
Chinese also copied the Jatimatic in about 1990s, and it's called Model 411. Jonathan at Royal Armouries has a video about that, but he didn't mention the model name. Also that one is the 9mm Parabellum export (presumably semi-auto) version. There's also a small number of Model 411 in various police stations in China, mostly in 7.62 Tokarev. All of those phased out of service in the early 2000s after some practical testings by the police forces.
Another SMG I just remembered from the old Jane's publications was a small SMG that Parker Hale was working on would love to se you get your hands on that one day.
Shooters has so much to offer in the museum. I wish you’d show the whole thing. It’s extremely impressive. The owner Jim has one of the largest machine gun collections (in private hands) in the world. One thing to keep in mind if you see the whole museum is this is just the stuff he decided to put in the museum in his gun shop. I can’t imagine what’s in his house.
Thanks for mentioning the Shooter's Outpost Museum. Hookset is about an hour drive from my house, and I went to visit them this weekend. It was a nice place to visit, and they have an impressive collection there.
I remember seeing these in an old Finnish crime documentary, where they used this to rob postal offices. It's on english subtitles on Yle Areena: "K5, J5: Jatimatic-ryöstöt" Looked pretty grim, and it also was pretty flashy way to go in that's why they we're caught because this really raised the red flags on police.
@Nunya Bis nah, the factory was actually robbed / bulgarized in the 90s so lots of jatimatics ended up to criminals also at that time deactivation laws were different so they reactivated deactivated jatimatics back to working ones.
agreed, could have easily blended in into Star Wars universe... probably Han Solo or Imperial Officers sidearm... and oh, it is its oddity that really count
It looks so different without a giant D cell Flashlight sized laser mounted on top.. Only 400 were made? Wow. I had no idea the production numbers were so low...
Holy shit! Jatimatic! And I believe it is for the second time on Forgotten Weapons. Here in Finland it has a somewhat legendary reputation, courtesy of a sketch show from the 90's...
I am always amazed at guns with so few moving parts. I wonder if using a fire selector switch instead of a progressive trigger would have helped the gun sell better. As another comment said, a more traditional cocking lever probably would have helped too.
Very cool gun but I didn't realize until Ian's explanation at the end of the video how shortsighted it was to make a gun with no shoulder stock that is very unintuitive to shoot from the hip due to the abnormal angle of the barrel
OK, OK, I hold my hands up and will tell you a tale.... Back around 1982 I had a Jatimatic and a SITE's Spectre.... I know, two odd bods that I took a shine to😉 They were both sales samples that SIDEM INTERNATIONAL had that I sweet talked them into selling to me! Cost me a grand total of £350 FOR THE PAIR😁 I converted both to semiautomatic only and had them for a year or so, lost interest and sold them on! Then I bought a Steyr Mpi69.... boy does Vic like those odd SMG's😂🤣😂🤣 Alas, ownership here in the UK is no longer possible for 'live' guns.... But I found a dealer in Europe recently that has a plethora of 1950-80's prototype SMG's that I will film soon😉👍
This gun is the Judge Dredd-iest gun I've seen in a while, I think. If it were possible to saw off the little safety bit on the front handle, I bet it could maybe look like a semi-decent cyberpunk-y gun. I mean, you know, after charging the handle, being able to stow it while firing, that's what I'm getting at. Yes, I know this would be a bad idea for a couple of reasons, I'm just gamering out here.
All you'd have to do is file down that little nub on the front handle. Honestly I think the gun would be a lot slicker if they ditched the front handle and made it into a hand stop / charging handle.
@@nutbastard Maybe grind the nubbies down and put strap attachments on the front handle? I'm trying to imagine charging the gun by pulling the gun down, so the strap pulleys over your shoulder, dragging the front grip with, but I doubt it would work that smoothly, plus it'd have to lock in place for it to actually get some use out of that strap attachment point. I think. Really, just trying my best to Matrix the fuck out of these guns.
Shooters Outpost in Hooksett New Hampshire is my go to gun shop. Bonus is their outstanding museum. great inventory, great ammo stock with fair pricing. They have everything 👍👍👍👍👍
I can imagine that people would instinctively fire high with this weapon in stressful situations, plus the fact you have to open the front handle, pull back and return it just to charge the gun doesn't exactly make it ideal for a quick response. That said, I bet it shoots very well and it's got a decent barrel length, 7 or 8 inches I'm guessing? It might be great in an ambush (if you are doing the ambushing!) I like the simple strip-down and love the built-in muzzle climb reduction, that's pretty smart. In the fantasy world I inhabit, I would add a folding stock (or at least the option), change the upper stamping as Golden Gun did, replace the original folding front handle with a decent foregrip and disable the safety (EDIT safety is already disabled). Plenty of scope to add same sort of bolt lock safety just forward and above the trigger (somewhere ergonomic). I'd envisage a simple 'flip down to fire' mechanism that engages when you charge the bolt? Hell, go all out and gas-port (I mean muzzle brake) the barrel too. Now you have a weapon that can be cocked 'shotgun style' as it is raised to fire. I bet that would make it a very formidable PDW and very accurate in burst firing. Pretty sure somebody with more sense than me would say 'just buy an MP-5' or whatever, fair point but this gun had potential? I'd love to see it at the range, HINT HINT Ian. Pax.
there was a folding stock version as well, google show some pics of it. cause most of the few made where sold in a most compact version with a belt holster they lack the folding stock. it was and is a great design of a smg.
A friend of mine pointed out that the actor playing the Russian officer was probably making "shooting sounds" when firing the blanks - you can see breath streaming from his mouth when he fires at Swayze.
@@finalascent Yeah - why not? I mean, I would! Who *wouldn't* go, "Pew Pew Pew" today? LOL The breath also gives away that Matty isn't actually "dead" because, otherwise Charlie Sheen would have had to hold his breath the whole time. So... I always speculated that after COL Bella let's them pass... They do what they were taught to do... "Stay Alive" and they made it back to the Mountains, and watch over Partisan Rock. Living in the wilderness they fought in. Mountain Men with boatloads of PTSD.
An imagined version of this gun was also extensively used in the finnish 90's tv-show Vintiöt, in most episodes of something called "Tervasaaren Kesäteatteri". The gun was usually thrown in a lake at the end where it made the sound "plumpsis". And yes, you'd have to be quite finnish to understand any of that.
I find the grip angle interesting because of how intentional it is with how its tied to the recoil impulse and is clearly inspired by small caliber target pistols... except those are pistols and this gun is very much forcing you to shoot it close with 2 hands with a sling, not out of a fully extended arm! If you changed the grip angle to be more like a small pdw, some of which even angle your trigger hand towards the sky at an angle due to your close chicken winged arm, Then you lose the whole point of the barrel positioning! kind of seems like some half baked ideas that were excellent ideas at the moment
God damn this one was full of difficult names. Greetings from Tampere though! The only reason why everyone I know knows the name jatimatic is because there was this sort of low budget comedy show in the 90's in Finland where one of the sketches was two guys doing amateur theater, one supposedly always shooting a person they didn't like and the other pretending to be the police and their sirens, he throws the imaginary jatimatic in the lake and they narrate everything they do out loud. So basically all we knew was "Oh no I shot the shitty composer, what should I do? Oh no it's the police, I'll throw my Jatimatic in the lake!". Other than that I believe pretty much nobody knew the name Jatimatic. The gunshop here was also new to me, I only knew that the city was known for the Finlayson factory that was pretty much built by the funding of Tsar Alexander I recall, at least a russian engineer or something similar founded it and that was how the city started to grow from sort of a village to one of the biggest and most technological in Finland. Really interesting design choices though. Odd, maybe not that great. But creative.
"-Nyt kyllä lähdet lusimaan!" "-Odotas, heitän ensin JatiMaticini Huippuvuorten yli norjaan" Fiiiuuuuuuuuuu--plumpsis Golden memories from the nineties 😁
I quite like the angled barrel concept. At least on paper, it does make sense. The fact that the weapon has a big red "FIRE" on the side when cocked can be a problem (but that is true for most open bolt SMGs). If you are guarding POWs for instance, the bolt being forwards will be a clear indication to anyone familiar with the weapon that it is not cocked. That might encourage a brave or a lunatic soul to take the weapon away from you. A problem which, of course, is partially mitigated by closed bolt PDWs.
I was able to hold one as a kid, my godfather (very much not Finnish) owned one and it was the first firearm I touched. Because of that, up until this video I had no idea how rare it is.
I think @notamaeiole also met your father and his gun ;)
Joking of course, although it would be hilarious if that was the case :D
Godfather, eh?
So cool
@@andrewsuryali8540 he gave him an offer he couldn't refuse
Must have been one of the guns that went 'missing' 🤭
Also one thing Jatimatic was famous (or infamous) here in Finland was a series of post office robberies back in early 90's. I remember being around 7 or 8 years old when i saw the local post office being robbed and i still remember the silhuette of Jatimatic that 2nd one of the robbers carried
I wonder if it was one of those that got stolen from the factory. I might be incorrect, but i do remember seeing a jatimatic in midst of confiscated firearms that were found while police raided biker gang's club house.
@@paskaalisaapaskaa5354 There totally was a photo like that published some years back, in Alibi magazine at least I think? Considering the overall scarcity of the gun, that gun pretty much has to be one of those stolen ones.
There was also rumours about illegal workshop at Helsinki area that manufactured these guns.
Why post office though.. not bank?
What exactly were they robbing the post office for?
There were actually two versions of the second variety Jati-matics (the type with the straight inclined receiver top), both of which were tested by the US Army in 1990. Both did come with a detachable stock but one had a rotating lever-type selector similar to an M16 in addition to the foregrip safety. According to the Army report, the manufacturer stated the change was to: "...to improve user confidence in the weapon. Initial feedback to the manufacturer showed that some less experienced users did not feel comfortable with the 2-stage pressure sensitive trigger. Thus, a weapon was developed to manually switch between the two modes of fire."
All in all the Army found the Jati-matic was reasonably easy to control, either one or two handed, light, and probably cheap/easy to make. On the down side they found the sights lacking and the stock difficult to affix and detach, and when attached bulky.
AD B150821 - Technical Report ARCCD-TR-90005, "Evaluation of the 'JATI-MATIC' 9 mm SMG," Dec 1990, Gregg L. Gibson, U.S. Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, Close Combat Armaments Center, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey
The fact that FIRE on the bolt is deeply engraved means you could feel it as well as see it. That's a nice touch which could help you check its status in the dark.
"feel it" ... "nice touch" - pun intended?
Great addon for blind people.
Dude the Cobra gun! Who remembers that movie!? Lol. It had that big ass, retro red Lazer on it too😂
Yeah it was some kind of laser sight about the full length of the gun, probably weighed about as much too. I believe there was one in Red Dawn (80's version) in the trainyard shoot out- sans laser
@@krissteel4074 yup I think you're right. Damn I miss the 80s LOL
Most used gun in Tervis.
Yup, that's the one.
That laser sight wasn't retro when the movie came out.
Just by looking at it. I would've never guessed Finland. It looks like it dropped right out of South Africa
I'd say South Africa, they always have funky designs.
@@KingBattlon that's actually what I meant to put in. Gotta love auto correct.
@@Payne427 Gotch gotcha. Really does look like it belongs alongside the Vektor, Neopup, and BXP.
@@nickaschenbecker9882 It also appears in original Red Dawn. As PM-63 replacement.
If my memory serves me right there was a semiauto prototype made with a stock and longer barrel aimed at the US civilian market. I remember seeing a photo in a 80's Finnish ASE-magazine. Jali got the idea for the gun when his .22 target pistol prototype with the same slanted design malfunctioned and emptied the whole magazine in the blink of an eye. When he went to see his target he noticed that all the bullets were grouped relatively close together when one would think that the first shot would be on target and the rest in the sky. He had his heureka moment there but sadly the end product wasn't quite up to par.
Heureka Moment is now part of my personal lexicon. Thank you!
@@Chiller01 FWIW, the "h" sound is actually correct in ancient Greek, though this is the first I've seen it written this way in English. A very cool "typo."
@@danspragens4935 It's typically written as "heureka!" in Finnish, at least.
@@kallemort Not terribly surprised to hear, but it's cool to see since I've never seen it rendered like that in English.
@@danspragens4935 I’m not being either ironic or sarcastic. Having moved from the US to Canada my autocorrect is British. Colour has replaced color and grey has replaced gray. This is just an evolution into Finnish/English, as I’m not conversant in Ancient Greek.
Having a sling attachment point on what is essentially the disassembly lever seems like a recipe for a bad time.
I was thinking the same thing.
In my understanding, that was the biggest flaw with it for governments. Too big to holster so sling is required in practical use, but that almost quarantees that it will disassemble itself sooner rather then later.
For me it's weird how a gun designer who obviously knew his job, didn't come up with anything else to prevent that from happening. Some kind of simple two sided spring catch required to be pressed would have prevented any of the problems...
@@alaric_ or just run the sling through a hole in the grip.
My thoughts exactly. One wrong move and the thing disassembles it’s itself.
@@johncox2865 I thought that at first too, but then the sling would be pulling on the mount. Unless the gun is upside down and facing you, pulling would try and close the level, not open it up- the direction of force is wrong for normal use of the gun to disassemble itself.
Though, who wants to take that risk, I guess? Some freak accidents and stuff does happen sometimes
I appreciate the sheer simplicity of the weapon from an engineering perspective, but the non-parallel design of the PDW between the body and the barrel makes my brain itch.
It’s designed that way to prevent muzzle climb.
@@markuskoivisto I did hear that part, but then he immediately pointed out what I thought would happen, people would try to aim by holding the body parallel to the ground which was not correct.
Aesthetics are not the priority when designing weapons, but sometimes form and function are intertwined.
@@ToggerstheFroggers Encouraged by the lack of stock so there's no place to put your face when using the sights.
A case study in ergonomics.
Ergonomics don't just mean "making it comfortable to use;" they're also important in making it so that the equipment is *used correctly.* Bad ergonomics can make otherwise well-crafted equipment effectively useless.
@@markuskoivisto He means the upper receiver-half not being parallel, and that has nothing to do with preventing muzzle-climb, which is also the reason, that "golden gun"-company changed that, going from an upper receiver-half with a disturbing deep curve, to a straght one...The only function previously was aesthetics, meaning, the upper receiver-half being parallel to the lower receiver-half... "Golden Gun" changed that, which made it less nice-looking, but also less disturbing while shooting
Glad to see Ian make a video on this gun again 9 years later.
Love the simplicity honestly. Everything from the takedown lever to the safety mechanism
In the nineties when I was 6-7 years old, me and some friends of mine were playing with wooden "guns" which were tree branches really, and the best ones were called Jatimatics :D I really dont know where the name came, but I would quess someones older brother or father had seen Cobra and told his kid the name. But the name always was a synonym for the best wooden branch gun in our childhood games.
I participated in shooting event with all sort of guns brought by collectors, 20mm Lahti down. The representive of the company that bought the rights was there to demonstrate the gun. Jams, and he even managed to disassemble the gun while firing. Like Ian demonstrated in 6:10
It was also in a limited-edition Marvel series called Mad Dog, of course back in the 80's. Character in the story says that Mad Dog chose it because it was able to be fired one-handed full-auto and be controllable.
The comic was from DC, called Wild Dog, and it was probably meant to compete with Marvel's Punisher. He did have a Jatimatic, though. The insane part is how the reporter in the first story describes Wild Dogs use of body armor, tasers, and a couple other gadgets as giving him "comparable performance to Superman". I did wonder why the Jatimatic was claimed to be so controllable, since comic writers usually get about half of their gun facts right (Larry Hama excepted). This video explains a lot about the claim.
@@VorpalDerringer Yes, sorry, Wild Dog! Right! The Committee For Social Change! "We are not left wing, nor are we right wing, we simply... ARE!" Now it's all flooding back! That was from a time when I was buying comics left and right, and Wild Dog came out at the same time as Marvel's New Universe (also a flop), and I had conflated them in my head as all being from the same company! Now I've got the original cover in my head... thanks!
@YT The character in the comic did it at arm’s-length. Accurate automatic fire while crashing a truck through a barrier. Comic book physics!
I've been a fan of this one for years and years,this the second video Ian's done on this,I just think this gun was ahead of its time..such a smart simple peice of kit.
Hyvää juhannusta!
I always loved the Jatimatic for how boxy and compartmental it looks, its like the SPAS 12 of SMG's
I love this thing. It's hard to imagine why nobody wanted it. It had to be very easy and inexpensive to produce. A folding stock could have easily been added. If the tilted barrel was a big issue that could have been made straight in line with the receiver.
Very, very good, with just a couple of things to keep your mind on when using. Very easy to clean, field-strip, un-jam... I loved the muzzle-anti-climp- features
This looks like a fictional weapon an early PS2 would have
Right? Like straight out of resident evil lmao
Aaah, finally Ian gets the Jatimatic in his hands again, and makes a higher quality video than the old one.
Should throw it in a lake.
the bolt traveling slightly downwards in order to somewhat counteract the tendency of the gun to climb is honestly super clever.
This is gonna be fun on the range tomorrow.
I appreciate the arrow on the red FIRE marking.. incase you get confused as to where the bullets come out..
Oooh, i have been waiting for this. I remember the video you did on one years back, and hoping for a more thorough look of it, now all we need is shooting footage :D
A finnish military friend of my fathers, who had the pleasure to shoot the Jatimatic for a while - quite some years ago - said that he felt that it is an awesome point shooter, for intuitive targeting "from the hip", and he was fairely experienced in the SMG genre, you could say. He said, the magazines were outstanding, rugged & reliable. He too said, the trigger was awful, though.
There was a rumor, back in the day, that there were several of these made with same serial numbers from the factory...Buddy of mine told me that he had some acquaintance, connection etc to someone close to the factory and he was offered one "under the table "...I would guess this was at the end, after no contracts for military etc had materialized and money was tight...
My buddy declined, he was intrigued of the gun in technical point of view but he didn't want anything to do with any illegal activities. (He was quite a tinker and always interested in some technical gadgets)
I also heard at least one instance when one, ehm, group had bought one of these(they were no robbers etc, just "Jatimatic? Yeah cool gun, how much?"), and one of the guys decided that after a couple of beers it was a magnificent idea to shoot full auto burst from the back door to the ground in backyard. With closest house with occupants being a few hundred yards away. And closest police station 10 mins away. That gun was probably thrown into a close by river at that same night....
I also happened to see in mid90s a brochure of the Golden Gun Jatimatics. I always thought that their brochure was the worst. I mean you are trying to sell PDW to some military, LE etc. And then you come up with this brochure that has your guns displayed with guys next to a Finnish APC, Pasi, guys wearing camo. And holding GOLD plated PDWs....Yeah, gold plated....Hence "Golden Gun"....
*Tviiuu Tviiuu* Nyt lähdet lusimaan.
Saanko heittää Jati-Maticcini jokeen?
No heitä.
*FIUUUUU PLUMPS!*
A very impressive weapon. Especially the anti-muzzle rise provisions. Wish I had one,of these.
Thanks, Ian. You’re the best.
The silhouette is actually very similar to olympic .22 free pistols and air pistols. This is one of the guns where an actual arm brace would have made sense.
Very cool. Jonathan Ferguson also made a video about this and its successors, a very interesting watch as well.
I really wished we could see Ian shooting that one in slow motion, the mechanism against muzzle climb is interesting!
I think they could have added a bigger hand stop on this unfolded front grip because it doesn't look super safe for the fingers, if one doesn't pay attention one day...
Very cool. We tend to think that everything should look a way but often our bodies do better with asymmetrical design. Something you may be interested in there is a channel called Scholagladitoria that is similar to your exept for older weapons. Asymmetrical design was far more common in older weapons.
Have been waiting for this one since the first Finland trip!
Chinese also copied the Jatimatic in about 1990s, and it's called Model 411. Jonathan at Royal Armouries has a video about that, but he didn't mention the model name. Also that one is the 9mm Parabellum export (presumably semi-auto) version. There's also a small number of Model 411 in various police stations in China, mostly in 7.62 Tokarev. All of those phased out of service in the early 2000s after some practical testings by the police forces.
thought the thumbnail was "Jamimatic"
That’s the 1911
Boomers destroyed
@@Matt-xc6sp they see you trollin’, they hate it.
Sweet
That's the tec-9 even though it's such a beautiful gun
@@samholdsworth420 call an ambulance, but not for you!😁
Another SMG I just remembered from the old Jane's publications was a small SMG that Parker Hale was working on would love to se you get your hands on that one day.
If only the episode had opened with "I'm Ian McCollum, and crime is a disease. This is the cure."
This looks like a weapon that comes from a vending machine
Or a Kinder Egg Surprise.
Shooters has so much to offer in the museum. I wish you’d show the whole thing. It’s extremely impressive. The owner Jim has one of the largest machine gun collections (in private hands) in the world. One thing to keep in mind if you see the whole museum is this is just the stuff he decided to put in the museum in his gun shop. I can’t imagine what’s in his house.
Thanks for mentioning the Shooter's Outpost Museum. Hookset is about an hour drive from my house, and I went to visit them this weekend. It was a nice place to visit, and they have an impressive collection there.
Thank you , Ian .
Ian, love to hear you using engineering terms describing the firing mechanics
I remember seeing these in an old Finnish crime documentary, where they used this to rob postal offices. It's on english subtitles on Yle Areena: "K5, J5: Jatimatic-ryöstöt"
Looked pretty grim, and it also was pretty flashy way to go in that's why they we're caught because this really raised the red flags on police.
@Nunya Bis nah, the factory was actually robbed / bulgarized in the 90s so lots of jatimatics ended up to criminals also at that time deactivation laws were different so they reactivated deactivated jatimatics back to working ones.
@@juhotasken resourceful Finns.
I was obsessed with the jatimatic after I saw it in ‘world military weapons’ book
It might be a little goofy, but I think i like the design of this guy. Seems like it would be fun at the range because of its oddity
agreed, could have easily blended in into Star Wars universe...
probably Han Solo or Imperial Officers sidearm... and oh, it is its oddity that really count
it might sound weird but I get a headache just looking at it. Very unique but so awkward looking.
True legends know Jatimatic from finnish TV series Vintiöt
Finally you covered this. It's been on the short list of ones I've wanted you to cover that you hadn't gotten to.
"this is where the law stops and I start sucker" - Marion Cobretti
"Crime is a disease, I'm the cure"
Another outstanding video and an interesting design! Love the depths of your information Ian! Thank you!
God bless all here.
It looks so different without a giant D cell Flashlight sized laser mounted on top..
Only 400 were made? Wow. I had no idea the production numbers were so low...
I've always wanted Ian to review this gun!
Holy shit! Jatimatic! And I believe it is for the second time on Forgotten Weapons. Here in Finland it has a somewhat legendary reputation, courtesy of a sketch show from the 90's...
I am always amazed at guns with so few moving parts. I wonder if using a fire selector switch instead of a progressive trigger would have helped the gun sell better. As another comment said, a more traditional cocking lever probably would have helped too.
The problem is the lack of a stock.
Very cool gun but I didn't realize until Ian's explanation at the end of the video how shortsighted it was to make a gun with no shoulder stock that is very unintuitive to shoot from the hip due to the abnormal angle of the barrel
This is a really cool pdw, it's crazy simple and it looks pretty cool too
What a cool design. I hope you get to shoot one and show/tell us how it handles on the range.
First full-auto firearm I ever fired, in 1985 at 14 years of age.
OK, OK, I hold my hands up and will tell you a tale.... Back around 1982 I had a Jatimatic and a SITE's Spectre.... I know, two odd bods that I took a shine to😉 They were both sales samples that SIDEM INTERNATIONAL had that I sweet talked them into selling to me! Cost me a grand total of £350 FOR THE PAIR😁 I converted both to semiautomatic only and had them for a year or so, lost interest and sold them on! Then I bought a Steyr Mpi69.... boy does Vic like those odd SMG's😂🤣😂🤣
Alas, ownership here in the UK is no longer possible for 'live' guns.... But I found a dealer in Europe recently that has a plethora of 1950-80's prototype SMG's that I will film soon😉👍
Such a cool SMG! Loved it in Cobra
This gun is the Judge Dredd-iest gun I've seen in a while, I think. If it were possible to saw off the little safety bit on the front handle, I bet it could maybe look like a semi-decent cyberpunk-y gun. I mean, you know, after charging the handle, being able to stow it while firing, that's what I'm getting at.
Yes, I know this would be a bad idea for a couple of reasons, I'm just gamering out here.
All you'd have to do is file down that little nub on the front handle. Honestly I think the gun would be a lot slicker if they ditched the front handle and made it into a hand stop / charging handle.
@@nutbastard Maybe grind the nubbies down and put strap attachments on the front handle? I'm trying to imagine charging the gun by pulling the gun down, so the strap pulleys over your shoulder, dragging the front grip with, but I doubt it would work that smoothly, plus it'd have to lock in place for it to actually get some use out of that strap attachment point. I think.
Really, just trying my best to Matrix the fuck out of these guns.
well done sir. your research is fantastic. i am really loving the history of the guns
Shooters Outpost in Hooksett New Hampshire is my go to gun shop. Bonus is their outstanding museum. great inventory, great ammo stock with fair pricing. They have everything 👍👍👍👍👍
This weapon is so much of a meme that me and my dad keep joking about it casually almost every day it’s just too funny
Your dad is cool as hell. My dad only makes jokes about my life
@@mojungle3054 And yet he made you- he must be the biggest joke of them all, lmao.
Ever since I saw a picture of one of these in a Jane’s Guide to Guns circa 2000, I’ve wanted to get my mitts on one.
Fun to watch Ian trying to teach vector mathematics for dummies. Well done Ian.
I can imagine that people would instinctively fire high with this weapon in stressful situations, plus the fact you have to open the front handle, pull back and return it just to charge the gun doesn't exactly make it ideal for a quick response.
That said, I bet it shoots very well and it's got a decent barrel length, 7 or 8 inches I'm guessing?
It might be great in an ambush (if you are doing the ambushing!)
I like the simple strip-down and love the built-in muzzle climb reduction, that's pretty smart.
In the fantasy world I inhabit, I would add a folding stock (or at least the option), change the upper stamping as Golden Gun did, replace the original folding front handle with a decent foregrip and disable the safety (EDIT safety is already disabled). Plenty of scope to add same sort of bolt lock safety just forward and above the trigger (somewhere ergonomic). I'd envisage a simple 'flip down to fire' mechanism that engages when you charge the bolt?
Hell, go all out and gas-port (I mean muzzle brake) the barrel too.
Now you have a weapon that can be cocked 'shotgun style' as it is raised to fire.
I bet that would make it a very formidable PDW and very accurate in burst firing.
Pretty sure somebody with more sense than me would say 'just buy an MP-5' or whatever, fair point but this gun had potential?
I'd love to see it at the range, HINT HINT Ian.
Pax.
The barrel is a hair over 20 cm long, just under 8 inches.
@@Tunkkis Cheers, not a bad quess on my behalf (if I'd been using 'cock-inches' I'd have guessed at least 11).
Pax
And I thought the MAC-10 was simple …this thing has that beat
This needs to be taken to the range 😎
I was kind of hoping the Jatimatic was unsuccessful because it was a jamomatic. Fascinating gun, tho!
there was a folding stock version as well, google show some pics of it. cause most of the few made where sold in a most compact version with a belt holster they lack the folding stock. it was and is a great design of a smg.
Will there be some range footage? It'd be interesting to see how much the downward facing component helps.
Yes, tomorrow
Have seen in a gun store case as a semi auto pistol a few years ago ..it was nice quality ..
In the original *"Red Dawn"* movie, this is the weapon carried by Colonel Strelnikov in the final shootout with Jed.
A friend of mine pointed out that the actor playing the Russian officer was probably making "shooting sounds" when firing the blanks - you can see breath streaming from his mouth when he fires at Swayze.
@@finalascent Yeah - why not? I mean, I would! Who *wouldn't* go, "Pew Pew Pew" today? LOL The breath also gives away that Matty isn't actually "dead" because, otherwise Charlie Sheen would have had to hold his breath the whole time. So... I always speculated that after COL Bella let's them pass... They do what they were taught to do... "Stay Alive" and they made it back to the Mountains, and watch over Partisan Rock. Living in the wilderness they fought in. Mountain Men with boatloads of PTSD.
That's actually a very clever idea. I like it. Using biomechanics to mitigate climb.
The cover of Action Comics #640 features Wild Dog brandishing a Jatimatic that I now realize would not be able to fire (front handle is folded up).
Now I'm going to have to reread Wild Dogs mini series and see if they screwed it up there.
Just make it head canon that he filed down the little nub that stops the bolt.
An imagined version of this gun was also extensively used in the finnish 90's tv-show Vintiöt, in most episodes of something called "Tervasaaren Kesäteatteri". The gun was usually thrown in a lake at the end where it made the sound "plumpsis". And yes, you'd have to be quite finnish to understand any of that.
Lol I love how long I've been watching. I knew Ian already did a video on this gun and sure enough, it was 9 years ago.
I remember reading the test of this gun in a gun magazine in the 80s. Great to find her in this video after so many years.
Saanko ensin heittää Jatimaticini lampeen?
Pikku vintiö.
No heitä,mutta sitten lähdet lusimaan.
Now this one I want to see on the range.
Especially in one handed full auto.
I still have the original poster for Cobra with Stallone posing with the jatimatic "Crime is a disease. He is the cure" 😂
I find the grip angle interesting because of how intentional it is with how its tied to the recoil impulse and is clearly inspired by small caliber target pistols... except those are pistols and this gun is very much forcing you to shoot it close with 2 hands with a sling, not out of a fully extended arm!
If you changed the grip angle to be more like a small pdw, some of which even angle your trigger hand towards the sky at an angle due to your close chicken winged arm, Then you lose the whole point of the barrel positioning! kind of seems like some half baked ideas that were excellent ideas at the moment
Thanks
Stallone carried one in Cobra (1986)
"You're the disease, and I'm the cure."
I've seen versions of it online with folding stock. Perhaps that should have been standard from the beginning.
Used to watch a japanese show about guns that play jazz music in the background, this gun gave me nostalgia.
Most of the manufactured Jatimatics have in fact been thrown into a lake by the Tervasaari Summer Theatre troupe. :(
Royal Armouries has a video on their UA-cam channel where Jonathan has all versions on display.
Ingenious design. It appears well made.
I'll never forget seeing it in Red Dawn. Perfect 80's action movie gimmick gun!
This is easily the coolest open bolt blowback smg/pdw
The design looks pleasing on the eyes.
God damn this one was full of difficult names. Greetings from Tampere though!
The only reason why everyone I know knows the name jatimatic is because there was this sort of low budget comedy show in the 90's in Finland where one of the sketches was two guys doing amateur theater, one supposedly always shooting a person they didn't like and the other pretending to be the police and their sirens, he throws the imaginary jatimatic in the lake and they narrate everything they do out loud. So basically all we knew was "Oh no I shot the shitty composer, what should I do? Oh no it's the police, I'll throw my Jatimatic in the lake!". Other than that I believe pretty much nobody knew the name Jatimatic.
The gunshop here was also new to me, I only knew that the city was known for the Finlayson factory that was pretty much built by the funding of Tsar Alexander I recall, at least a russian engineer or something similar founded it and that was how the city started to grow from sort of a village to one of the biggest and most technological in Finland.
Really interesting design choices though. Odd, maybe not that great. But creative.
James Finlayson, who founded the Finlayson factory in Tampere, was Scottish.
An example of the brilliant innovation and variety of the 80s.
Loved the video, what a simple and genius design! COBRA!!! 🐍
The build and design is actually pretty genius. Really cool.
First time I remember seeing one of these was Col. Strelnikov carrying one in "Red Dawn" (1984). Ten-year-old me thought it was pretty neat.
"-Nyt kyllä lähdet lusimaan!"
"-Odotas, heitän ensin JatiMaticini Huippuvuorten yli norjaan"
Fiiiuuuuuuuuuu--plumpsis
Golden memories from the nineties 😁
I quite like the angled barrel concept. At least on paper, it does make sense.
The fact that the weapon has a big red "FIRE" on the side when cocked can be a problem (but that is true for most open bolt SMGs). If you are guarding POWs for instance, the bolt being forwards will be a clear indication to anyone familiar with the weapon that it is not cocked. That might encourage a brave or a lunatic soul to take the weapon away from you. A problem which, of course, is partially mitigated by closed bolt PDWs.
If its good enough for Lt. Marion "Cobra" Cobretti, then it is a fine firearm indeed.