I mean.. that must make him the pope or something right? The one worthy enough in gun jesus's eyes to get a whole video on a question? He clearly is a chosen one.
@@Kremit_the_Forg The next logical question is who will be the Martin Luther to said pope? "Salvation is found through faith and faith alone! Also, .32 French Longue...."
Anis Optera well, the Beretta is not near as complex, but for a simple blowback there are a real bunch of fancy not essential stuff in it. And M38A is not even a machine pistol: the name implies it is an automatic moschetto, mosqueton, carabine.
Holy shit, the Beretta 38A looks like it had absolutely no recoil. Incredible since you're even firing it full auto, to the point it almost looks unnatural lol.
Almost defeats the purpose of an SMG, though, with its size. The thing looks like a small carbine! From the shoulder is great, but what about from the hip and general speed of getting into action?
@@dphalanx7465 Infact is always been considered a carbine Moschetto is how we called it at the time. Still, NO submachinegun in WWII was ever considered a compact type of weapon at all: neither german, british nor russian or american ones were considered to be a secondary weapon, Uzi (and others one with telescopical bolt like the same Beretta PM12, a blockbuster) was way posterior.
I absolutely love that the deciding factor in most of these is how much _fun_ they are to shoot. No finicky, argument-inducing statements about which is the most tactically superior - just Ian talking about which one brings him the most joy out on the range.
One of the many things I love about Ian is that he doesn't have the pretention of the typical guntuber who wants you believe that, at any second, he will be called upon to fast-rope into a hostage situation and take down terrorists.
He doesn't hate drum mags. He doesn't think they belong on military weapons, since they are complex, bulky, and expensive, all of which make them not really viable as a military service weapon.
@@austinm.9832 What about them? They are hard to load, heavy, less reliable than standard stick mags, but on the other side they pack easily, and require less reloads. I don't recall Ian's opinions of the coffin mag, but I don't recall him thinking poorly of them.
@@MortisObscura I think you missed the joke, seeing as there's no benefit to WAV over LOSSLESS compression... Not to mention, FLACs still take up most of the space WAVs do anyway, just not *quite* so much
From the video on the American 180: "It has a tendency to fire out of battery and while it's just a .22 and there's probably not any great danger, it is still a bit disconcerting." I don't think any amount of fun can overcome that to get into a top 5 ranking.
Rejoice! For his holiness Gun Jesus has anointed the 5 SMGs that grace our blessed allies and honoured enemies. Hopefully the M2 makes a civvie comeback now that Ian has mentioned it. And hopefully all listed pop up in popularity enough to fill civilian hands
Even tough Gun Jesus confirmed this didn't included the black sheeps of the MP5, aka those chambering in .40 S&W, 10mm Auto and .357 Sig. Apparentely, these commited the recoil sin, making these unholy.
It really is a bit of a vz.61's thing. Comes with the top ejection. But frankly, I came quite fond of hearing the casings whistle for a second or two after I stop firing, as they fall down. :D
Imagine if Ian starts to answer Q&A this way, we'll have great fantastic bearded content for at least 10 years or so XD Thanks for always showing appreciation for your fans Ian! I've learned a LOT LOT with your videos and informations. Don't stop please
Being an Australian, I have a fondness for the Owen: it's simple, foolproof, reliable as hell and makes me proud to be an Aussie. Sure it's ugly, but the kokoda campaign wasn't a beauty contest.
In the old days, people did a lot of physical work, and they were more powerful than people today. That is why Suomi KP 31 was not a heavy weapon by the standards of the 1940s
@@michaelmichelsson The people using it were generally young and fit, the physical training of being in the military helped. Today's soldier going out on patrol carries a lot more weight around than those of the 1930s and 1940s.
@Richard Johnson No. The Suomi was what spurred the Soviets to develop the PPSh (prior to that, the Soviets had very few submachine guns, and the PPD was not suited for mass production), but they're completely different guns. The PPSh's drum magazine, on the other hand, *is* a copy of the Suomi's drum.
@@michaelmichelsson The average *person* might have been more active and physically fit in the 1930s-40s than today. But the average *soldier* today is a different story. Modern soldiers might carry lighter weapons than their WW2 counterparts, but their overall load is if anything even heavier.
He did comment in that video that it had a habit of occasionally firing out of battery if you don't clean it basically every time you change the magazine.
I remember the sarge conducting training with my unit saying: "Skorpion has its merits; small, easy to carry... But not reliable, prone to misfires, very short range. Absolutely the best in SMG category? MP5. No competition at all" Further more, my stepfather was a high ranking officer in what was then Yugoslav army (colonel) and was given a Skorpion during NATO bombing. I remember to this day his disdain for that thing. He says that the first thing he did after he took it and went to his car and driver, was to say to the driver (a common private): "Let's trade... I give you my Skorpion if you give me your M70 (AK-47)". He returned it after the war with all the grease on it, never even took it out of the box... I met only one person who liked Skorpion. It was a guy who served in MP and the reason he liked it was that he was on checkpoint and checking the documents. So, the guy who was checked was right in front of him, so while he was holding the documents in one hand, he could hold his other hand on its grip cos he held it over his shoulder; he could just squeeze the trigger if the guy would try smth... Otherwise, Skorpion is rather disliked here in Serbia.
Yeah it is way more of a civilian oriented one so if you are not a drug dealer or a member of a urban guerrilla it has that much of an utility but its so incredibly compact that if you need an easy to hide and fast to draw weapon for illegal stuff it is perfect It is in fact one of the automatic weapons most prefered by criminals along with the uzi and modified automatic pistols
It's definitely more of a gun used suppress the enemy as you run away from them. If you try to stand your ground and fight with the Skorpion, you are probably gonna die. Perfect for non combat personals, terrible for anyone who's expected to get shot at in many different instances and want's to fight back.
It was developed as light weapon, replacing pistol. The exact use in czech army was MP, police, and pilots or officers. It is a small weapon possible to conceal carry in a suit of 90s villain. But the main weapon in the army remained to be the vz. 58, a czech upgrade of AK. Skorpion allowed you to spray and pray the guy few meters from you, but in battle it is quite limited.
@@Pyrochemik007 , while no one wants to be shot, not even with a .32, it seems like it would be a difficult gun for a non-combatant to shoot well. ...but then I can't think of any com bloc smallish submachine guns either. Perhaps the AKSU? But that ain't the easiest beast to control eithet.
I have only ever shot two full auto SMGs. They were both range rentals. The first was an UZI the second was the MP5. I was so impressed with the MP5 and the delayed roller blowback, I chose a CETME for my first "modern" battle rifle. (Century .308 ... a poor man's HK 91) Thanks for all the great videos, Ian!
Just so we're clear, the HK is a high end CETME. That is the CETME came first, and then later (when the Germans who designed the CETME could go home and work) they had H&K producing the same guns.
@@jacobmccandles1767 Yes, I researched the history. I almost bought a surplus/kit CETME, before choosing the Century. It stood out head and shoulders over an AR-10 and was almost half the cost of an M1A.
@@jimbougard8560 I had an M1A, which I loved, but got a Century .308 because at that time (6-8 years ago) magazines were available surplus for $3 each. I got myself ... a few ...
The VZ61 is designed for the kinds of soldiers who don't get a huge amount of trigger time. Something easy to use and highly controllable yet a little under powered is far more effective than something more powerful with a note-worthy recoil. Doesn't matter how much lead you lob if it doesn't go toward the target.
Re-watching this years later while having my morning coffee. May sound odd, but consistency of how a gun ejects is something I've come to see as a sign of quality. A neat pile of brass at the end of a mag, shows it's running like a sewing machine. When you look at that Beretta M38A, it's what I call a "brass juggler". A smooth, predictable parabolic arc of evenly spaced brass, hanging in the air - beautiful.
I was lucky to be able to shoot the MP5 once back in 2003 and the experience made me understand why it's at the top of every SMG list. It really is a fantastic gun in every aspect.
Yeah, I got to play with one in Iraq that a Blackwater guy brought to the range while we were having a "day off" to play with the stuff we'd captured. The contractor guy was cool and let me go through a few mags, and MAN. Ain't nothing like an MP5. The only machine gun I care to own. Smoothest recoil ever, and the fact that they look cool doesn't hurt.
The upwards facing vents on the Beretta compensator really seem to be doing their job; the muzzle moves downwards on every shot! I haven't seen the effect so clearly before.
Well thought out list, using your hands on experience and historical perspectives. Respect the fact that you did not include the M1921 (and derivatives) Thompson, inarguably a fine gun, but essentially obsolete (from mechanical perspective) about time it hit market.
Glad to see the MP5 is top of the list! Without doubt the easiest SMG to like, it’s easily accurate and comfortable; even the ergonomics of the MP5 seem to be as close to perfection as possible.
The MP5 is basically a scaled down G3, which is probably why it is such a good gun. It has a lot of features that aren't really necessary when building a standard SMG, but become necessary when dealing with larger rifle cartridges. It kind of reminds me of the Mauser 1914 in that respect; initially designed to be a much larger 9mm pistol but later scaled down to .32 acp. The Walther PP series would be another good example of that as well.
I completely agree on the MP5. While I do not have anywhere near as much trigger time on full auto guns as you, I did rent a few while visiting Nevada and the MP5 was my favorite by a very wide margin. Ran a couple of magazines through the other guns, but ate up so much ammo through the MP5 that the staff had to go load up more magazines for me (we started with a basket of 8 magazines per gun). It was a costly range trip, but well worth it.
The H&K is probably better being closed bolt, I wouldn't know, but of the SMGs I've fired the Uzi seemed to have that sweet balance between fire rate, recoil impulse, and control that made it possible to dump full mags into small groups, and allowed the sights to remain useable in full auto.
Watching this video I wasn't expecting the MP-5 a the end, but I myself was thinking about how easily that takes my Number 1 spot while i was watching. Genuinely one of the coolest guns around, and the single greatest weapon (one of only two automatics) I've had the pleasure of shooting.
Hi, I enjoyed the compilation. I especially liked how you talked over the content rather than just playing the old footage. This allowed for a nice commentary while having stuff to look at. I would watch more videos like this. I do not mind "TOP X" video formats as long as the dialogue is new. I also enjoyed seeing you in the corner. I would rather have you in the corner and talking than just talking. Thanks
I think the only reason it wasn't, comes down to the fact that at the top end of the "best SMGs ever made", you get a pretty tight cluster of really damn well made, and designed guns, and I think he was trying to make his list a bit varied. I will be of the speculative opinion that it was a contender for #4 with the Suomi, but lost out due, probably in large part, to the Suomi's ridiculously good drum magazine.
Common sense says objectively it shouldn't get close. Balancing top mounted magazine weight vs natural underslung weight, mag blocks field of view, sights offset to right hand side of the gun to get around the mag, (great for the few left handers apparently). Periscope mag may as well be a 'hey look at me' indicator when aiming prone. No surprises why no one copied the design to further develop it. It was said to be reliable, and filled a need, but just because it's exotic unobtainium, people think it must be amazing. Noob gamer mistake.
@@KageNoTora74 I thought the Owen was crafted by some Aussie kid in a shed? It wasn't really an improvement of the AuSten, it was just better from the start. Stens look pretty cool, but I remember an old review Hichock45 made. The upper and lower came apart whilst he was running the last couple of rounds through it, but he acted as if never happened.
Yes, it was a better option than the Sten. A British infantry platoon was on the march armed with Stens when a Private dropped his and shot a Corporal in the groin. Their Lieutenant condemned the Sten as having been made with nothing more in mind than cheap mass production. How do you put a Sten on safe? Remove the magazine and clear the chamber.
HK MP5 absolutely best subgun out there. before i retired, i was a swat cop and this was my issued entry weapon. same as one Ian was shooting but i had nice eotech. the collapsible stock was great for getting good sight pic if wearing gas mask so you could get your cheek further in than the standard solid stock. excellent weapon!
i really like this type of video, you talking about guns while showing footage and a face cam. in my opinion you should combine the shooting videos with the explination videos, or atleast try it out.
Born in Finland in '69 I went into army in '89. During in my 11 months of service, I remember one task related with the Suomi KP (as we called it). It was -20 degrees Celsius, at 8:00 in the morning (or so), in an island fortress close to city of Hanko, and we were given the task of shoot out a stock ( some hundreds of kilograms) of 9mm tracer bullets that were about to be obsolete (i.e too old). At the beginning it was fun. Suomi KP is so easy to use and such a fun weapon to shoot. However, shooting 9mm ammunition in an industrial scale at targets that evaporated after the first 10 minutes of shooting, was indeed a turn off. Reloading the clips again and again made our fingers bleed due to the dry and cold air. We did that for 10 hours or so, with a lunch break in between at noon. Shooting continued late in the evening, and we were able to see the light from so called "tracer" bullets again as the light from the Sun dimmed The reason I'm telling you this story in English, not Russian, is that the Suomi KP or M/31 Suomi, however you want to call it, is one of the killing machines that kept communism out of Finland and the rest of northern Europe. We call M/31 as kuularuisku. A rough translation is a ball spray. And indeed, the ball spray weapon spread death among the invaders. And what are Russians best at. They copy and survive. And behold, we have PPSh-41, a copy of Suomi KP. A killing machine that helped Russians to conquer most of Eastern Europe and stay in power for decades. A few facts about M/31 Suomi: the real accurate and effective range is 50-75m. Anyone owning a 9mm pistol understands this limitation. That said, the beauty of the M/31 Suomi is the fire power. Lots of bullets in close targets, in short time. Especially the drum ~75 shotsis, how to put it, a mass destruction weapon. I emptied those by the dozens and almost became a pacifist. Almost. ;)
Ian is my new favorite guy on UA-cam. These videos are so interesting, I honestly don’t shoot much but he’s so informative about the history and little quirks of each gun, every video I watch has something cool. He is totally Gun Jesus too, such a nice and appreciative person, hopefully I will see him in the future apocalypse. I’m imagining him mowing down hoards of zombies or something like that, then just turning to to explain his favorite mechanism of the gun he just shot or something. “This is just a fantastic gun for shooting zombies, I really enjoy blowing their brains out.”
I thought at start, the number 1 is going to be the Beretta 38a and H&K mp-5 second, especially after I saw the smile and amazed look after you first shot the Bertetta 38-a in the dedicated Beretta 38-a video.
Probably a Moiré pattern. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern In this case, it's on a slight angle so as it moves around some parts of the symbol cross multiple pixels in the camera, while some do not.
Agreed on the Beretta and MP5. I would add the STEN MK V and Beretta M12. Was qualifying on the same range as some Italians in the sandbox. They wanted to shoot my GAU-5 and I was happy to shoot their M12's. SLOW rate of fire and the sights didn't move at all.
This is great stuff, I love hearing your opinion on why it’s YOUR top five. Would like to see more of these. It would be great if you could really break them down and get specific. For example: - top 5 WW2 firearms - top 5 bolt actions - top 5 semi auto rifles - top 5 assault rifles - top 5 LMG’s Etc, etc. Keep up the good work!
I don't have nearly the exposure to the different submachine guns that you do but the most magnificently smooth one I've ever shot is the zk383, I would love to try that Beretta 38a based on what you said in the video, and I totally agree about the MP5, there's a reason it dominates the market
Curatorial choice in the M2, a worthy Forgotten Weapon for Ian. No surprise the MP5 topped the list, I've heard of nothing but excellence from the platform (there's even a version with an integral suppressor!)
*Forgotten Weapons posted a video 1 minute ago Me: Woot i'll be the first person to watch the video! Woot woot im number..........8,007. Ian and Karl need their own TV channel.
@@charlesadams1721Any of the "News" placed Fox included. Ian has come a superb job of keeping politics away from his channel on something half hour country finds political. Kudos and Cookies to The Ian McCollum
@@Redbird1504; wow, I don't watch Fox. I didn't introduce politics into this discussion, YOU did. if you choose not to see that CNN is the lowest of the 'major' cable TV networks, hat's your choice. The Cartoon Network has more viewership across the board. If you really want to know the truth, go to the primary sources If CNN didn't pay the airports and the hotel and motel chains to show their product, their viewership would be much lower. We can agree on the excellent job Ian does and has done with his product.
No thanks! This is much better than TV, no producers, contacts or deadlines, he can tackle this project at his leisure, and make a video like this one, to quickly answer one of his patrons questions, so go support him directly if you can, so this wonderful content keeps coming.
The semi-auto vz.61 mainly exists for the civilian market in Europe (or maybe only mainly for Czech market), where you can't easily get automatics. It's also dirt cheap.
I'm going to have to give the MP5 another try. I was underwhelmed the first time I tried it. The 38A sounds VERY interesting! Would like to walk it out to 500 yards to see how it would perform. That level of stability is definitely eye catching. I've always loved the m1928. I can put a grouping at 50 yards into the size of a softball.
Ian, remember, when you run out of ammo (a possibility given war), the heavier a gun is, the better it is at being old fashioned melee club. Just whack 'em with the metal bits!
Personal favourites of mine: 9x19mm: L2A3 Sterling SMG (my issued personal weapon in the T.A. for a couple of years until it was replaced by the SA-80 'system'), and the Uzi (much fun on the range!). In 5.56x54mmN, and more of a carbine, but labelled on the side as an SMG, the HK53 :) You asked, you got told ;) Keep up the great work!
The Skorpion is a great choice- meant to be carried in that small holster, and I'm guessing a .32 could still kill a man.., or at least I'm never volunteering to see what it's like to get hit by a .32 bullet; and the king of 'em all the MP5...of course.
I was expecting the mp5. I sort of figured the skorp would either place higher or place "different category" - and I am honestly surprised not to see the PPS43 on the list.
Oh nice! Definitely valid choices Ian! I can see why you like each one of those. I guess there only being able to be five limits choices, but I am admittedly surprised the American 180 didn't make it on the list!
Given that Ian has seen a lot of gun internals and probably thinks them 24/7, I sometimes wonder what an ideal gun in each category would be in his opinion. And that raises the question, if you know the complete history of industry, are you able improve from that or does it require some rare innovative personality?
I think the bolt probably is the big difference with the 38A. If you look at the slomo you can see the gun actually jumps FORWARD a tiny bit when the bolt slams home, completely offsetting the recoil from the firing cartridge.
@@Ides_0f_March - They have the same form factor, but other than that are very different. Swedish K has complelty different trigger group design, larger diameter bolt and tube, real fully adjustable sights, and more magazine options. The trigger group and bolt alone are enough to make the gun shoot complelty different.
@@rcbif101 If you had more magazine options it must've been the early version that could take the suomi magazines too. The later B version could only take the 36 round stick magazine.
The Suomi even uses the same stick mags as the kpist 45b. Didn't originally, but basically all of them were adapted to use that mag post-WW2 since it was more reliable than any of the existing Finnish mags.
Dude asked a q&a question and gets his own video. Flex.
I mean.. that must make him the pope or something right?
The one worthy enough in gun jesus's eyes to get a whole video on a question?
He clearly is a chosen one.
@@Kremit_the_Forg The next logical question is who will be the Martin Luther to said pope? "Salvation is found through faith and faith alone! Also, .32 French Longue...."
Sleeveless zip up hoodie in and of itself is pure flexology
@@wowomatic Martin Luther is Rob Ski
Pray to gun Jesus and gun Jesus answers
Basically every SMG: simple systems to minimized cost.
HK: Screw that, we are German.
Anis Optera well, the Beretta is not near as complex, but for a simple blowback there are a real bunch of fancy not essential stuff in it.
And M38A is not even a machine pistol: the name implies it is an automatic moschetto, mosqueton, carabine.
HK like:
Lets make G3 again
but smol
H&K engineers after a solid week of shoulder vs 7.62 NATO.. "we should make something that doesn't kick so hard"
@@pendelbembel 😂👍
PPS-43 to every other SMG: you don't know what simplicity is.
I love how Ian always so polite, calm, and friendly person. He truly does deserve the Gun Jesus title
you haven't watched enough
Farell A he really does have a soothing voice in these videos. This will sound weird but I’d love to hear him do bedtime stories. 😊
Tom Snider : What? These aren’t bedtime stories??
Watch him rip people at shot show.
I once saw him throwing eggs at an old folks home
Holy shit, the Beretta 38A looks like it had absolutely no recoil. Incredible since you're even firing it full auto, to the point it almost looks unnatural lol.
Almost defeats the purpose of an SMG, though, with its size. The thing looks like a small carbine! From the shoulder is great, but what about from the hip and general speed of getting into action?
@@dphalanx7465 Infact is always been considered a carbine Moschetto is how we called it at the time.
Still, NO submachinegun in WWII was ever considered a compact type of weapon at all: neither german, british nor russian or american ones were considered to be a secondary weapon, Uzi (and others one with telescopical bolt like the same Beretta PM12, a blockbuster) was way posterior.
For The SMGs ...
Now For Top 5 For:Shotguns,Assault Rifle,LMGs,Etc....
Revolvers, Semiauto Pistols, AOWs, Knives, Swords, Tanks, Mexican Restaurants...
Bourbons, Hats, Moustache waxes, WMD's, Cough syrups...
Top 5 muzzle loaders, top 5 bayonets, top 5 prototype-military-service-rifles-that-never-went-into-large-scale-production, Top 5 Bergmans.
His #1 Shotgun is definetly the Cobray Terminator. Ask him if you don't believe me ;-)
It really would be nice to see those.
Ian: I'd like a heckler and coke
Waiter: sorry we only have heckler and pepsi
I read "Waiter" as "Walther"
walter
ua-cam.com/video/s4bC7VkRCws/v-deo.html ;)
I want someone to start a gun company called Heckler and Peppsee (because Pepsi is copyrighted or something)
@John wick is playing I watched John Wick with a girl and she left me 😡
New for 2020! Matrix Ian, Winter War Ian, American Trials Ian, Albanian Partisan Ian, Counter Terrorist Ian. Collect all 5!
I' ll Take 10 of Each One....
Mine are mint on the card.
Gun Jesus, complete with emergency ammo drop from heaven, and Kevlar robe.
Let me know when 80's Action Hero Ian comes out!
Underrated comment 🤣
I absolutely love that the deciding factor in most of these is how much _fun_ they are to shoot. No finicky, argument-inducing statements about which is the most tactically superior - just Ian talking about which one brings him the most joy out on the range.
One of the many things I love about Ian is that he doesn't have the pretention of the typical guntuber who wants you believe that, at any second, he will be called upon to fast-rope into a hostage situation and take down terrorists.
@@hoilst265...and wants you to believe he's ready and has the balls for such a situation should it arise.
"Ian, what are your top five Bergmanns?" "This is the first of five consecutive videos..."
Forgotten Bergmann's best youtube channel.
**Bergmann intensifies**
My uncle was in Italy during ww2 and he said the beretta 38 was prized and widely fought over and traded for
Finland mentioned, rendezvous at the market square!
Torille!
Torille!
Suomi mainittu! Torilla tavataan!
All those guys shouting Torille and Torilla have me hungry for tortillas. TACOS!
Perkele!
"Where is the mp5 on the list" "oh there it is"
Now that's a tasty comment.
Woah woah wait, wait... did Ian just say there’s a drum magazine that he *likes*?! 2:30
Damn that must be the best drum mag ever
He doesn't hate drum mags. He doesn't think they belong on military weapons, since they are complex, bulky, and expensive, all of which make them not really viable as a military service weapon.
@@DarkSpar13 what about the suomis coffin mags?
@@austinm.9832 What about them? They are hard to load, heavy, less reliable than standard stick mags, but on the other side they pack easily, and require less reloads. I don't recall Ian's opinions of the coffin mag, but I don't recall him thinking poorly of them.
The gun overall is pretty nice all around. Shame there hard to get
Ian means “the Klobb”
Probably the least satisfying automatic weapon I've ever fired in a game.
The best part was that it was _so_ inaccurate that it had a spread pattern like a shotgun. Maybe the best gun for LTK mode.
"Blitablitablitlitblitablitablit"
We don’t say its name.
back in the day when picking up your first gun put you in a worse off position than when you started lol
I knew an MP5 would top the list,
I prefer the MP4, just better sound quality overall....
MP4s are garbage, FLAC or nothing.
@@MortisObscura nah raw WAV is the real deal ;p
@@St0RM33 good luck getting that though, the file size is too large.
@@MortisObscura There's no such thing as a file too large. You just need more storage :)
@@MortisObscura I think you missed the joke, seeing as there's no benefit to WAV over LOSSLESS compression...
Not to mention, FLACs still take up most of the space WAVs do anyway, just not *quite* so much
Beretta Modello 38 paired with the "Samurai" mag vest was the most magnificent pairs i want really bad.
Having shot an MP5, M31 Suomi, and a Beretta M38/44, the Beretta is my favorite for sure.
Man that Beretta looks like such a controllable gun. It looks like your shooting a BB gun, in a really good way.
Awww I was hoping for the "American 180" (Swarm of Angry Bees) .22LR. Smooth as a buttered otter to shoot. XD
Anything in .22LR should be smooth as butter to shoot, unless it is less than an inch long!
Same. Most disappointed that the gun which gave Ian the biggest grins ever isn't on the list.
Haha, came to post this.
Lol
From the video on the American 180: "It has a tendency to fire out of battery and while it's just a .22 and there's probably not any great danger, it is still a bit disconcerting." I don't think any amount of fun can overcome that to get into a top 5 ranking.
Scorpion: 10 out of 10 Central European gangster would recommend that
Top 5 blessed SMGs
Rejoice! For his holiness Gun Jesus has anointed the 5 SMGs that grace our blessed allies and honoured enemies.
Hopefully the M2 makes a civvie comeback now that Ian has mentioned it. And hopefully all listed pop up in popularity enough to fill civilian hands
@TurboTestosterone
*TwinTurboTestosterone 😒
TurboTestosterone how do "firearms " connect with religion?
What is your favourite five?
Mine?
1. Lithgow (black mountain barrel) .22 lr .50 od!
Even tough Gun Jesus confirmed this didn't included the black sheeps of the MP5, aka those chambering in .40 S&W, 10mm Auto and .357 Sig. Apparentely, these commited the recoil sin, making these unholy.
Curious as to why the Owen, Stirling, or Steyr Solothurn didn't make this list. Ian gave them all high praises in his videos on them.
that skorpion brass was sooo close to going down Ians collar!!
The skorpion's sting.
It really is a bit of a vz.61's thing. Comes with the top ejection. But frankly, I came quite fond of hearing the casings whistle for a second or two after I stop firing, as they fall down. :D
In the vid where he was shooting the scorpion, the brass kept falling on his head.
When Ian doesn’t mention you even though he laughed like a school girl shooting you.
*Sad ZK-383 noises*
My thoughts exactly!!! He loved shooting the ZK-383
Aye. Had high hopes for that one.
Sad PPSH-41 noises
@@wendysobamaman2179 So *Burrrrrp*?
@@wendysobamaman2179 why would he prefer that over the suomikp?
Imagine if Ian starts to answer Q&A this way, we'll have great fantastic bearded content for at least 10 years or so XD
Thanks for always showing appreciation for your fans Ian! I've learned a LOT LOT with your videos and informations. Don't stop please
Being an Australian, I have a fondness for the Owen: it's simple, foolproof, reliable as hell and makes me proud to be an Aussie. Sure it's ugly, but the kokoda campaign wasn't a beauty contest.
My Dad, US Army, fought in New Guinea also. Not as long as you Aussies did but a little of that place goes a long way!
We all love the Owen
The one I've shot that surprised me the most with how controllable it was was a Sterling I shot on my second deployment in 2007.
I'd love to see this turned into a series of all types of guns
The steadiness of the Suomi is upside of all that weight.
when you run out of ammo you can hit them with it
In the old days, people did a lot of physical work, and they were more powerful than people today. That is why Suomi KP 31 was not a heavy weapon by the standards of the 1940s
@@michaelmichelsson The people using it were generally young and fit, the physical training of being in the military helped. Today's soldier going out on patrol carries a lot more weight around than those of the 1930s and 1940s.
@Richard Johnson No. The Suomi was what spurred the Soviets to develop the PPSh (prior to that, the Soviets had very few submachine guns, and the PPD was not suited for mass production), but they're completely different guns.
The PPSh's drum magazine, on the other hand, *is* a copy of the Suomi's drum.
@@michaelmichelsson The average *person* might have been more active and physically fit in the 1930s-40s than today. But the average *soldier* today is a different story. Modern soldiers might carry lighter weapons than their WW2 counterparts, but their overall load is if anything even heavier.
Figured the “swarm of angry bees” would’ve been on here. Thing seems like a ton of fun.
He did comment in that video that it had a habit of occasionally firing out of battery if you don't clean it basically every time you change the magazine.
I remember the sarge conducting training with my unit saying:
"Skorpion has its merits; small, easy to carry... But not reliable, prone to misfires, very short range. Absolutely the best in SMG category? MP5. No competition at all"
Further more, my stepfather was a high ranking officer in what was then Yugoslav army (colonel) and was given a Skorpion during NATO bombing. I remember to this day his disdain for that thing. He says that the first thing he did after he took it and went to his car and driver, was to say to the driver (a common private): "Let's trade... I give you my Skorpion if you give me your M70 (AK-47)". He returned it after the war with all the grease on it, never even took it out of the box...
I met only one person who liked Skorpion. It was a guy who served in MP and the reason he liked it was that he was on checkpoint and checking the documents. So, the guy who was checked was right in front of him, so while he was holding the documents in one hand, he could hold his other hand on its grip cos he held it over his shoulder; he could just squeeze the trigger if the guy would try smth... Otherwise, Skorpion is rather disliked here in Serbia.
Interesting
Yeah it is way more of a civilian oriented one so if you are not a drug dealer or a member of a urban guerrilla it has that much of an utility but its so incredibly compact that if you need an easy to hide and fast to draw weapon for illegal stuff it is perfect
It is in fact one of the automatic weapons most prefered by criminals along with the uzi and modified automatic pistols
It's definitely more of a gun used suppress the enemy as you run away from them. If you try to stand your ground and fight with the Skorpion, you are probably gonna die. Perfect for non combat personals, terrible for anyone who's expected to get shot at in many different instances and want's to fight back.
It was developed as light weapon, replacing pistol. The exact use in czech army was MP, police, and pilots or officers. It is a small weapon possible to conceal carry in a suit of 90s villain. But the main weapon in the army remained to be the vz. 58, a czech upgrade of AK. Skorpion allowed you to spray and pray the guy few meters from you, but in battle it is quite limited.
@@Pyrochemik007 , while no one wants to be shot, not even with a .32, it seems like it would be a difficult gun for a non-combatant to shoot well.
...but then I can't think of any com bloc smallish submachine guns either. Perhaps the AKSU? But that ain't the easiest beast to control eithet.
I have only ever shot two full auto SMGs. They were both range rentals. The first was an UZI the second was the MP5. I was so impressed with the MP5 and the delayed roller blowback, I chose a CETME for my first "modern" battle rifle. (Century .308 ... a poor man's HK 91) Thanks for all the great videos, Ian!
Just so we're clear, the HK is a high end CETME. That is the CETME came first, and then later (when the Germans who designed the CETME could go home and work) they had H&K producing the same guns.
@@jacobmccandles1767 Yes, I researched the history. I almost bought a surplus/kit CETME, before choosing the Century. It stood out head and shoulders over an AR-10 and was almost half the cost of an M1A.
@@jimbougard8560 I had an M1A, which I loved, but got a Century .308 because at that time (6-8 years ago) magazines were available surplus for $3 each. I got myself ... a few ...
0:49 - vz61 Skorpion
2:08 - m/31 Suomi
3:23 - US M2
5:00 - Beretta 38A
7:18 - MP5
I have to say that the M2 is just gorgeous, that wood is beautiful too.
The VZ61 is designed for the kinds of soldiers who don't get a huge amount of trigger time. Something easy to use and highly controllable yet a little under powered is far more effective than something more powerful with a note-worthy recoil. Doesn't matter how much lead you lob if it doesn't go toward the target.
great list
great comment
@@intrer8601 great reply
@@MillenniumRP great likes
@@JA-oo9qp great conclusion
@@introscapes9418 great closing statement
Well Ian, I have to admit, I'm surprised the Owen gun didn't get in your Top 5.
But the MP-5 is a worthy #1.
The Owen is a close runner-up.
@@ForgottenWeapons Maybe do an honourable mention, us colonials like our Owen.
Yes the Owen has to be there. I owned 11 before 1996 and they were by far better than all the other WW2 examples that I had.
@@wendover3 Eleven before 1996....shit. I could guess what happened to them. 😥😡
@@Goatboysminion Yes into the fire along with Austens, Lewis, MP40 and about 200 others
Re-watching this years later while having my morning coffee. May sound odd, but consistency of how a gun ejects is something I've come to see as a sign of quality. A neat pile of brass at the end of a mag, shows it's running like a sewing machine. When you look at that Beretta M38A, it's what I call a "brass juggler". A smooth, predictable parabolic arc of evenly spaced brass, hanging in the air - beautiful.
I can't help but smile at the fact that Hk is once again proven to design the BEST firearms with this list. 🤣
I was lucky to be able to shoot the MP5 once back in 2003 and the experience made me understand why it's at the top of every SMG list. It really is a fantastic gun in every aspect.
Yeah, I got to play with one in Iraq that a Blackwater guy brought to the range while we were having a "day off" to play with the stuff we'd captured. The contractor guy was cool and let me go through a few mags, and MAN. Ain't nothing like an MP5. The only machine gun I care to own. Smoothest recoil ever, and the fact that they look cool doesn't hurt.
Great vid as always. The M2 is an amazing SMG in 45. Had never heard of it before your previous vid and to see it that highly rated is deserved.....
The upwards facing vents on the Beretta compensator really seem to be doing their job; the muzzle moves downwards on every shot! I haven't seen the effect so clearly before.
I noticed that too, it was pretty impressive to see.
best show on the internet
Classy af too
Well thought out list, using your hands on experience and historical perspectives. Respect the fact that you did not include the M1921 (and derivatives) Thompson, inarguably a fine gun, but essentially obsolete (from mechanical perspective) about time it hit market.
Glad to see the MP5 is top of the list! Without doubt the easiest SMG to like, it’s easily accurate and comfortable; even the ergonomics of the MP5 seem to be as close to perfection as possible.
The MP5 is basically a scaled down G3, which is probably why it is such a good gun. It has a lot of features that aren't really necessary when building a standard SMG, but become necessary when dealing with larger rifle cartridges. It kind of reminds me of the Mauser 1914 in that respect; initially designed to be a much larger 9mm pistol but later scaled down to .32 acp. The Walther PP series would be another good example of that as well.
Coincidentally, the MP5 is one of the two SMG's that i've had the opportunity to shoot. And it really is awesome
I completely agree on the MP5.
While I do not have anywhere near as much trigger time on full auto guns as you, I did rent a few while visiting Nevada and the MP5 was my favorite by a very wide margin. Ran a couple of magazines through the other guns, but ate up so much ammo through the MP5 that the staff had to go load up more magazines for me (we started with a basket of 8 magazines per gun). It was a costly range trip, but well worth it.
The Skorpion. Love watching those 32acp cases flying out the top. Definitely fun to shoot.
The MP5 at #1? Didn't see that coming. OK, yes I did. 🤣🤣🤣
The H&K is probably better being closed bolt, I wouldn't know, but of the SMGs I've fired the Uzi seemed to have that sweet balance between fire rate, recoil impulse, and control that made it possible to dump full mags into small groups, and allowed the sights to remain useable in full auto.
I've shot a few SMGs and I agree the mp5 is amazing. I do want to shout out the mp-40 though. Its very controllable and I liked the sights.
When it comes to quality, Suomi is a gun but MP 40 is a terrible piece of garbage
Watching this video I wasn't expecting the MP-5 a the end, but I myself was thinking about how easily that takes my Number 1 spot while i was watching. Genuinely one of the coolest guns around, and the single greatest weapon (one of only two automatics) I've had the pleasure of shooting.
Hi, I enjoyed the compilation. I especially liked how you talked over the content rather than just playing the old footage. This allowed for a nice commentary while having stuff to look at. I would watch more videos like this. I do not mind "TOP X" video formats as long as the dialogue is new. I also enjoyed seeing you in the corner. I would rather have you in the corner and talking than just talking. Thanks
I half expected the Australian Owen to be in there.
aww I was hoping the owen gun was going to get on the list
I think the only reason it wasn't, comes down to the fact that at the top end of the "best SMGs ever made", you get a pretty tight cluster of really damn well made, and designed guns, and I think he was trying to make his list a bit varied. I will be of the speculative opinion that it was a contender for #4 with the Suomi, but lost out due, probably in large part, to the Suomi's ridiculously good drum magazine.
The Owen was an improvement over the AuSten but maybe not amongst the best ever and doesn't have to be among Ian's favorites.
Common sense says objectively it shouldn't get close. Balancing top mounted magazine weight vs natural underslung weight, mag blocks field of view, sights offset to right hand side of the gun to get around the mag, (great for the few left handers apparently). Periscope mag may as well be a 'hey look at me' indicator when aiming prone. No surprises why no one copied the design to further develop it. It was said to be reliable, and filled a need, but just because it's exotic unobtainium, people think it must be amazing. Noob gamer mistake.
@@KageNoTora74 I thought the Owen was crafted by some Aussie kid in a shed? It wasn't really an improvement of the AuSten, it was just better from the start. Stens look pretty cool, but I remember an old review Hichock45 made. The upper and lower came apart whilst he was running the last couple of rounds through it, but he acted as if never happened.
Yes, it was a better option than the Sten. A British infantry platoon was on the march armed with Stens when a Private dropped his and shot a Corporal in the groin. Their Lieutenant condemned the Sten as having been made with nothing more in mind than cheap mass production. How do you put a Sten on safe? Remove the magazine and clear the chamber.
HK MP5 absolutely best subgun out there. before i retired, i was a swat cop and this was my issued entry weapon. same as one Ian was shooting but i had nice eotech. the collapsible stock was great for getting good sight pic if wearing gas mask so you could get your cheek further in than the standard solid stock. excellent weapon!
i really like this type of video, you talking about guns while showing footage and a face cam. in my opinion you should combine the shooting videos with the explination videos, or atleast try it out.
Excellent video. I'm also a lefty but can't fire with my natural left side due to my use/training of the 'wonderful' SA80 use.
Born in Finland in '69 I went into army in '89. During in my 11 months of service, I remember one task related with the Suomi KP (as we called it). It was -20 degrees Celsius, at 8:00 in the morning (or so), in an island fortress close to city of Hanko, and we were given the task of shoot out a stock ( some hundreds of kilograms) of 9mm tracer bullets that were about to be obsolete (i.e too old).
At the beginning it was fun. Suomi KP is so easy to use and such a fun weapon to shoot. However, shooting 9mm ammunition in an industrial scale at targets that evaporated after the first 10 minutes of shooting, was indeed a turn off. Reloading the clips again and again made our fingers bleed due to the dry and cold air. We did that for 10 hours or so, with a lunch break in between at noon. Shooting continued late in the evening, and we were able to see the light from so called "tracer" bullets again as the light from the Sun dimmed
The reason I'm telling you this story in English, not Russian, is that the Suomi KP or M/31 Suomi, however you want to call it, is one of the killing machines that kept communism out of Finland and the rest of northern Europe. We call M/31 as kuularuisku. A rough translation is a ball spray. And indeed, the ball spray weapon spread death among the invaders.
And what are Russians best at. They copy and survive. And behold, we have PPSh-41, a copy of Suomi KP. A killing machine that helped Russians to conquer most of Eastern Europe and stay in power for decades.
A few facts about M/31 Suomi: the real accurate and effective range is 50-75m. Anyone owning a 9mm pistol understands this limitation. That said, the beauty of the M/31 Suomi is the fire power. Lots of bullets in close targets, in short time. Especially the drum ~75 shotsis, how to put it, a mass destruction weapon. I emptied those by the dozens and almost became a pacifist. Almost. ;)
Ian is my new favorite guy on UA-cam. These videos are so interesting, I honestly don’t shoot much but he’s so informative about the history and little quirks of each gun, every video I watch has something cool. He is totally Gun Jesus too, such a nice and appreciative person, hopefully I will see him in the future apocalypse. I’m imagining him mowing down hoards of zombies or something like that, then just turning to to explain his favorite mechanism of the gun he just shot or something. “This is just a fantastic gun for shooting zombies, I really enjoy blowing their brains out.”
When has H&K ever cared about cost and complexity? But I agree, the MP5 is a superb weapon in my limited experience.
I thought at start, the number 1 is going to be the Beretta 38a and H&K mp-5 second, especially after I saw the smile and amazed look after you first shot the Bertetta 38-a in the dedicated Beretta 38-a video.
7:48 What is this Knight Rider action that is going on on the full auto symbol of the lower receiver.
Also: Deutschland #1 Wooo
Probably a Moiré pattern. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern
In this case, it's on a slight angle so as it moves around some parts of the symbol cross multiple pixels in the camera, while some do not.
Agreed on the Beretta and MP5. I would add the STEN MK V and Beretta M12. Was qualifying on the same range as some Italians in the sandbox. They wanted to shoot my GAU-5 and I was happy to shoot their M12's. SLOW rate of fire and the sights didn't move at all.
The MP5 being the top one, you should do a video on the SIG MPX, would love to hear what you have to say about that gun
MP-5 was my first experience with full auto weapons. I had so much fun and the bolt slap was so satisfying.
I know I'm biased, I own a1917 Thompson, you lean in to it and dump a 50 round mag ....
Nothing like it.
If you're worried about the weight with Suomi then you can also use it with a stick magazines to relieve from that weight a bit.
No doubt in my mind that MP5 would be your number one. You literally could not stop smiling that entire video.
This is great stuff, I love hearing your opinion on why it’s YOUR top five. Would like to see more of these. It would be great if you could really break them down and get specific. For example:
- top 5 WW2 firearms
- top 5 bolt actions
- top 5 semi auto rifles
- top 5 assault rifles
- top 5 LMG’s
Etc, etc.
Keep up the good work!
I would be interestes too in a video of other weapen types maybe Ian's favorite bolt action rifels or machine guns or assultrifels
I don't have nearly the exposure to the different submachine guns that you do but the most magnificently smooth one I've ever shot is the zk383, I would love to try that Beretta 38a based on what you said in the video, and I totally agree about the MP5, there's a reason it dominates the market
Curatorial choice in the M2, a worthy Forgotten Weapon for Ian.
No surprise the MP5 topped the list, I've heard of nothing but excellence from the platform (there's even a version with an integral suppressor!)
That would be the MP5SD
@@denishnathaniel7727 That's the one.
I like the sound of the Baretta it really sounds "Italian", the m3 has a nice sound aswell.
*Forgotten Weapons posted a video 1 minute ago
Me: Woot i'll be the first person to watch the video! Woot woot im number..........8,007. Ian and Karl need their own TV channel.
They might get more viewership and ratings that CNN...even without captive audiences in airports and hotels.
@@charlesadams1721Any of the "News" placed Fox included. Ian has come a superb job of keeping politics away from his channel on something half hour country finds political. Kudos and Cookies to The Ian McCollum
@@Redbird1504; wow, I don't watch Fox. I didn't introduce politics into this discussion, YOU did. if you choose not to see that CNN is the lowest of the 'major' cable TV networks, hat's your choice. The Cartoon Network has more viewership across the board. If you really want to know the truth, go to the primary sources If CNN didn't pay the airports and the hotel and motel chains to show their product, their viewership would be much lower. We can agree on the excellent job Ian does and has done with his product.
He doesn’t need television, he needs more patreon donations, like what you see? Pay the man so he can do more!
No thanks! This is much better than TV, no producers, contacts or deadlines, he can tackle this project at his leisure, and make a video like this one, to quickly answer one of his patrons questions, so go support him directly if you can, so this wonderful content keeps coming.
You should definitely try Scorpion EVO 3, it fires from a closed bolt, looks cool and the ergonomics are great.
Surprising that Ian didn't manage to squeeze the MAT-49 into the list, given that it's French and all.
Great video, always informative and entertaining. My list of top 5 SMG: 1. MP-40, 2. Thompson, 3. Swedish K, 4. Sten, 5. HK-5
I have to say, I was expecting to see the Owen gun on this list somewhere XD
Too much of an ugly duckling.
@@MarkGoding If you're picking an SMG, or any other weapon on how it looks...
You're looking at the wrong thing.
The semi-auto vz.61 mainly exists for the civilian market in Europe (or maybe only mainly for Czech market), where you can't easily get automatics. It's also dirt cheap.
Here's my top 5 SMGs that I have had personal experience with.
1. MAC-11 .380ACP
That is all.
are you gangster?
@@redgreen7021 you, sir, spent a little time in Southeast Asia, am I right?
1. MP-40 😤
I totally agree on 2nd and 1st place. Shot them and they are indeed really nice.
The MAS 38 didn't even make the list?
Guys, I think the real Ian may have been stolen from us.
This guy knows his shit, for that I admire him.
The slow motion of the Beretta ejecting spent brass was poetic. Excellent shooting - both weapon and camera.
I'm going to have to give the MP5 another try. I was underwhelmed the first time I tried it. The 38A sounds VERY interesting! Would like to walk it out to 500 yards to see how it would perform. That level of stability is definitely eye catching. I've always loved the m1928. I can put a grouping at 50 yards into the size of a softball.
4:43 looks like a tiny m1 grand
havent seen that video yet btw
It's from mid 2019 if I remember correctly.
Not at all.
Thompson 21, Thompson gi , S&W M76, H&K MP5, MP40, some of my favorites
Ian, remember, when you run out of ammo (a possibility given war), the heavier a gun is, the better it is at being old fashioned melee club. Just whack 'em with the metal bits!
Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it jams, you can just hit someone with it.
Personal favourites of mine:
9x19mm: L2A3 Sterling SMG (my issued personal weapon in the T.A. for a couple of years until it was replaced by the SA-80 'system'), and the Uzi (much fun on the range!).
In 5.56x54mmN, and more of a carbine, but labelled on the side as an SMG, the HK53 :)
You asked, you got told ;)
Keep up the great work!
Does the hk53 feel similar to the mp5 when shooting it?
The Skorpion is a great choice- meant to be carried in that small holster, and I'm guessing a .32 could still kill a man.., or at least I'm never volunteering to see what it's like to get hit by a .32 bullet; and the king of 'em all the MP5...of course.
Human yes...bear no....I'm guessing
.32 ACP is about equivalent to a single pellet of 00 Buckshot. A burst from a Scorpion is about equal to getting shot with a 12ga shotgun.
@@bennyhill6024 you going bear hunting with a sub-machine gun?
I was expecting the mp5. I sort of figured the skorp would either place higher or place "different category" - and I am honestly surprised not to see the PPS43 on the list.
MP5 is my favorite full auto suppressed SMG. UZI comes in second. Truth: I only own those two.....
Oh nice! Definitely valid choices Ian! I can see why you like each one of those. I guess there only being able to be five limits choices, but I am admittedly surprised the American 180 didn't make it on the list!
Great list, I am surprised that the MP-40 didn't show up anywhere though.
Isn't that good, has many problems like the magazine spring, the recoil makes the gun inaccurate and the folding stock is uncomfortable
Given that Ian has seen a lot of gun internals and probably thinks them 24/7, I sometimes wonder what an ideal gun in each category would be in his opinion. And that raises the question, if you know the complete history of industry, are you able improve from that or does it require some rare innovative personality?
VZ61 is my national pride, glad it is your favourite Ian !
But it's not his favourite...?
@@kilppa top 5 is still pretty good.
@@stevenbobbybills It is indeed.
curious if Ian had a chance to shoot ones in 380 and 9mm Mak.
I think the bolt probably is the big difference with the 38A. If you look at the slomo you can see the gun actually jumps FORWARD a tiny bit when the bolt slams home, completely offsetting the recoil from the firing cartridge.
Ian, you really need to try the Swedish kpist 45b.
And the Suomi can take stick magazines too.
One of the first SMG I ever shot, and all my shots were dead on. So easy to keep on target.
@@Ides_0f_March - They have the same form factor, but other than that are very different. Swedish K has complelty different trigger group design, larger diameter bolt and tube, real fully adjustable sights, and more magazine options. The trigger group and bolt alone are enough to make the gun shoot complelty different.
@@Ides_0f_March That's a bit like saying "I don't need to test and Ipad, I've tried the chinese copy".
@@rcbif101 If you had more magazine options it must've been the early version that could take the suomi magazines too. The later B version could only take the 36 round stick magazine.
The Suomi even uses the same stick mags as the kpist 45b. Didn't originally, but basically all of them were adapted to use that mag post-WW2 since it was more reliable than any of the existing Finnish mags.
While I've only shot very few Submachine Guns my favorite by far would have to be Beretta's PM-12!