Great message, but I do have to disagree with you a bit. I think it is someone's fault. I think it is the fault of the person who makes the untrue claims that allow it to snowball in the first place and, yes, those who accept it without critical thought. There is, after all, no substitute for personal responsibility. Someone once said that if you were to push a boulder off a bluff with houses below you can't blame gravity for the resulting destruction.
Hubris runs quite high among many photographers simply because they believe they're "artists" and ... after all, artists know "everything." LOL - I speak from experience, having worked among such people in the industry. REAL photographers learned the craft long before the digital age. These days, photographer constantly attempt to fix their f**k up jobs with Photoshop and a host of other programs, but it hardly matters, because shit cannot be fixed. If your portrait or wedding photographer, for example, has not been in business for long, and has very few samples of professional work to show you, then ... Then be ultra suspicious. Some of these imbeciles of cour$e charge you a fortune, and many of them manage to fortunately find customers of the same narcissistic personality type. One hand for one glove. It typically fits, and most often, if two compatible narcissists encounter each other, then they're in heaven. So the customer pays $15,000 for photography, and probably $75,000 for the entire wedding ... and then they get divorced 18 months later. Happy photographer - semi happy customer.
@@Anon54387 Not so fast if you read the Dunning kruger effect you will see that the person who suffers from it with a negative critic think the critic is actually wrong.
I know a very good photographer that has been around for decades. She quit several years ago when the iPhone syndrome got going. No one wanted to get really good images because their friends could "shoot the same thing" on an iPhone or similar. We are so inundated with mundane and redundant images I think we have lost our imagination and drive for something special.
Then again a small phone can be great for documentary work in disarming subjects. Stacy Kranitz shoots largely on a phone and her work in Appalcahia is some of the best I've seen. A good photograph is still a good photograph as well. I don't worry too much any more about what others think about what's good, it's the good opinion of those I respect that makes me feel I've taken something good. Especially those who aren't afraid to call me out when they think I've taken something bad!
And electronics engineers don't make what they did relative to other professions between the 1960s and now. Things change. Ultimately, photography isn't necessary the way food is. A former co-worker of mine that started doing product photography doesn't seem to understand this when he laments lack of work. I love photography, it is great fun for me as a hobby. I would never consider doing it for a living.
I had a similar conversation with a photographer back in 2005 long before camera phones were in anyway decent but he hated people taking pictures of his poses. He seemed to not really understand the difference in quality and put his poses as his work not his final images. I suspect he wasn't a very good photographer despite doing weddings for over 20 years at the time. 😂
As a long term photography veteran of at least 15 minutes, I feel qualified to make deep swinging judgements with absolute confidence. Anything else would be abject cowardice.
Part of the effect is due to the fact that when you know very little, anything you learn increases your overall knowledge by a huge percentage. To you, it seems you know a lot when in fact you only know a lot when compared to what you used to know.
There is always more to learn. The basics like aperture, shutter speed and iso didnt take long for me to learn but I still struggle with composition and color. Last week I went to my friends concert and did some shots. My first time doing anything like it and its insane how much stuff you have to think about. Most images had something cut off in the background or were framed badly or didnt have good connection with the artist. I had to take lots of test shots. Good thing it was just a casual opportunity and nothing professional expected of me.
@@Xirpzy This is where I am at the beginning, at the bottom of the curve, I learn one new thing by trial with my camera, and as a result, 10 new things to learn suddenly pop up...
As a photographer if you're not constantly questioning yourself and looking at the work of others and wondering as to the guts, gumption and graft that got them that moment then you're not going to get much better. I think I now know enough to know how much I don't know.
Im a professional photographer and have been for 23 years. I never talk badly about other photographers for two reasons: 1. Art is subjective and 2. Being a photographer is HARD. I respect anyone with the courage to do it.
@@ared18t I suppose it's not as physically laborious as , say, construction or being a soldier in combat... But, it is very difficult to be a photographer especially at the top levels. But, feel free to disagree.
Man, I feel this to the core, Scott. You’ve said it SO well. You’re proof that audience size and knowledge do not correlate directly. And have confirmed my frustration with the comments section is okay 😂 The photography world needs this massively
I understand the point about popularity not being equivalent to knowledge… as to the rest of the video, photography is an art form which in turn makes it subjective. Not really anyone’s place to say what is or isn’t good
That's exactly what I feel right now. Got into portrait photography a year ago and after doing 2 or 3 sessions I was like hey thats pretty good. Now a year later whenever I look at those photos I can't comprehend how bad those were. Now I know it's a really long way to getting good and I'll probably never be as good as I'd wish to be
I'm a photographer and I'm trying to learn something new every day. What I've noticed about photographers is the majority of them think there way is the best way. Photography is an art and we all have our different styles of shooting there is no right or wrong way, no bad or good photographer (When it comes to shooting styles) it is just about finding the clients that like your style of work.
Photography stopped being an art decades ago. If you get into photography, as an artist or in other words; with the mindset of creating art, thinking you will actually make money and have your career succeed, you are just fooling yourself. Art does not sell nowadays. Nobody nowadays cares about art. People nowadays just want your service for their business, for their portfolio, for their website, their products, their events, their weddings or whatever else. They don't want art, they want your service. Photography nowadays, is just simply a service that you sell. If you think you will be able to sell art in this day and age, you need to get back down to Earth ASAP, because you will lose LOTS of time and LOTS of money chasing something that won't ever happen.
@@nogerboher5266 personally, I believe that honing your craft in whatever you want is a very nice thing, it can be really fulfilling. maybe, one day you’ll be famous enough to sell your art. Ive seen many photographers that have phenomenal photos that I would buy a print in a heartbeat, if they had some, to put on my wall… but in order to make a living off of photography, yes you have to hone your craft around a product, or something else to make it a service. That being said I think @our trio meant that some people will find their own visually pleasing ways to market themselves and their service in order to make a living off of photography. Many artists have their different ways of doing that, and some sell better than others. Like the photos in the video, there are some very minimal, clean photos of coke bottles and their brand colors. A big corporation like cocacola would probably be into that, because they dont want tacky photos on their billboards wasting them money. Some people will be better at making coke photos. On the other hand you could have a small business that thinks your style of photos suits their image very well, and you could end up a long term partner, in hopes that the company grows.
@@kiwimike2330 The thing is, people who get featured in art galleries, get photographer of the year awards, art museums, so on and so forth, they are a very, very tiny minority of all photographers around the world. You're talking about it like it's a common thing and a stable way of earning stable income, for all photographers around the world... It's not. Not even close. You're talking about 0.01% of photographers worldwide, highly likely even less than 0.01%, that get their work featured in an art gallery, art museum or similar - and out of those 0.01% that do get lucky enough, 80% don't see a single penny from their work being featured in a museum or any art gallery anywhere.
I just came across this video, subscribed straight away. I am a Professional photographer (I have a BA Hons in Photography, Video and Digital Imaging, although photography is not my only job right now in the company) and so much of this video makes so much sense. I work out of a small studio (which is part of a much larger performing arts based business and shop). I honestly think watching your video has made me re-open my eyes too, thank you
I work as a comms manager and there's a massive thing where as soon as you start taking team pics with an f1.2 etc, all your teammates start telling you you're amazing at photography. Comms can be a cliche-ridden environment, and it seems it's especially undemanding when it comes to being impressed by simple photos.
I've accepted that I will always fall victim to the Dunning-Kruger effect so I've simply surrendered to it and do my best to recognize that I always have something to learn. Even so, when it comes to art, photography, etc, I just do what I personally like. If I see someone doing something I really like, I try to emulate that. It's ultimately very selfish but I just stick to the things that I personally find appealing, regardless of if it's "right" or "wrong." However, I'm also not a professional so I suppose I can afford to have this sort of carefree attitude lol. In the end, I will say this, perhaps in contrast to this video, if you know the basics of whatever field you are in and are doing your best to keep that kind of stuff in mind, you are already head and shoulders above many others, especially people like me who just do whatever. If you actually put in the time and effort, you are on your way to making good shit. Just don't get arrogant.
I actually hate your videos! Because you actually tell the truth and give good advice. You tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear. Keep up the good work. Ps . The first part of the sentence was being sarcastic. Keep the educational videos coming
I've been a "freelance" photographer for some time now, and I always wanted to call myself a "professional" but I always hesitate at that because like you stated, most of us just shoot models or people who think they want to be models for instagram, and hell that does NOT pay the bills, not by a long shot. It doesn't even pay, like ever. My one job that I got paid for was for a wedding, and damn that was a ton of work. I've been frustrated with photography for like a year now because I've been stuck, not knowing what I could do to actually get paid for doing what I enjoy. And just as you said, its not gonna happen, at least not by just shooting people here and there. I see even some photographers offering "business courses" which I'm starting to think is their very own pyramid scheme, because they rarely tell you what to even do with your photos when you learn how to shoot, who do you sell them to or how to market yourself to start to sell your photography. It seems that some of these photographers primarily make their living off selling training courses, not by selling their photography. You're the first in a long line of photographers on youtube that actually gave me even a breadcrumb of a starting point. An agent. SImple as that, though probably not that simple but at least its a first step. I've been looking for a first step for so long, that I've got myself lost. Thank you for putting me on track again!
Very true! I’ve encountered a handful of videographers/photographers offering courses on how to work yourself up to getting 10k per month in retainer costs with brands The photographers in question DONT have any actual credible work to show for their claims. Maybe that’s a form of Dunning Kruger on my part but I simply can’t bring myself to taking advice from no-so-good photographers or photographers with ZERO work that would warrant getting any tips or (paid) mentorship
Totally fell victim to Dunning-Kruger phenomena. Applied for a graphic design role and got an interview. Showed them my portfolio and the interviewer told me that he can see my skills, but there's nothing applicable for the role or that he would need. My world sunk. But I learnt an extremely valuable lesson. I'm shifting to Photography because it's something I enjoy more. I'm putting hours outside of work to build a respectable showcase of what I can do in my field of interest, even if it means working for free. The AOP advice is really valuable, thank you for sharing your thoughts 🙏 sometimes we need someone to tell us the harsh truth.
Just because a job refused you doesnt mean you are not good of the other way around. If they said they can see your skill means you are not bad. If a portret photographer aplies for a real estate job he probably wont get it either.
I understand and agree mostly with what you say about the lack of career path and commercial viability e.g. for "model photographers". But doesn't the same apply for (almost) all street photographers? I mean, who will ever book anyone to take candid pictures of strangers/pedestrians, mostly black & white and usually terribly boring? I strongly assume they all don't have an agent and/or a real industry, either. I think there were many still life painters over the last centuries, and I assume almost none of them were painting strawberries in order to enhance the numbers & figures of the national strawberry market of their time and country... I think there are photographers who just shoot beautiful people and maybe make a little money with prints or books, and there are sports, cars, architectural photographers who make a living on their camera without having an agent... In my previous appartement I had a (huge) 2000$ photograph on my wall which I considered worth every penny, and I do think that photographer did not have "an agent in the industry", either... Just my two cents...
This advice is so good and applicable to almost any industry. Chances are, your target customers aren’t the other professionals in your field. When we try to impress our colleagues, we often entirely miss the market.
Facts. When I started photography over 30 years ago, I worked as an assistant for a commercial photographer. What I saw him create was the standard. As well as the great imagery I would see in magazines. There was also a book called The Black Book. This was a promo book filled with the work of working photographers that would go out to art directors, ad agencies, and other photo buyers and creatives.
i think it might be pretty healthy to fall victim to the dunning krüger effect, it shows necessary confidence in your character and work. opposed to people who are constantly doubtful in their abilities and the things they create.
That's pretty much me I didn't pick up a camera for years because I was scared of taking bad photos, even now have to keep myself in check. Thing is though I'm meant to be an illustrator, that's what my degree is in after all, and yet I haven't picked up a pencil or a brush now in almost 3 years from fear of failure...
"But if I show you how to do a 57 light setup" I totally get that. And I was very much into that to start with. Watching Seth Miranda use 10 speed lights to light a shot was super cool. And he really does know his stuff. But now I watch him still and I watch a guy like Ab Sesay who does those videos some people would find boring. Like testing 50 different types of diffusion. Or going through what's the best softbox. Or 15+ different types of light stands. Those are the videos and information that interests me now that I'm passed that initial Dunning Kruger effect. And realizing how much about everything else in photography I don't know. And I like videos like these with real life philosophy and insight. Thank you Scott. Keep this up if you can. I appreciate it.
"If I show you what actually gets me paid, I get no views." That's how I feel when I start talking to people who see a lot of my concert photography and think that's all I do. That's the FUN stuff, the stuff that doesn't pay, many times at least. But I do make some money in the music photo biz. It has led to bigger opportunities, and so I can't totally knock it, but it takes a LONG time to get your foot in that door. The trade off is I get into big name shows, and I get a photo pass for the memory book, and the photos for the memory book and a presence online, and of course the trade off is an article or photos for the show.
I think people who do it for vanity are more likely to be egocentric about their photography. People who do it because they enjoy it are more likely to be good at it
That's why I like this channel, it's so refreshing to listen to someone who has the experience because they learned their craft the hard way, and not from the so called experts who think they know everything because they saw it on UA-cam.
I love photography deeply but would never try to make a living from it. Fair play to you for making it pay. Every time I start to think that I'm a great photographer I open a Salgado book.
A fellow photographer once gave me the greatest piece of advice when I started out 30 years ago…’If you don’t believe in yourself,nobody else will!” The thing is,photography is very subjective,if your clients continue to pay you,that’s all that matters,there is no rule book.
That’s the great subjectivity of art. There are mediocre photographers who make a living and there are amazing photographers that haven’t made a cent. The photos I like to take and the photos I make money with are two wildly different genres.
This has to be hands down the best photography business video I have ever seen! - side note about "model photographer" I live in LA and see a lot of them, all broke claiming to be all that. along those lines I offer models free digitals, measurement, agency shots all for free. In this day and age it makes no sense to charge a model for those basic services. granted it takes time and effort, but I have my own studio and it keeps me shooting and networking of which pays off in the end.
Im 33. Ive learned at a fairly early age that I'm not mr amazing at anything and never be a cocky douche. I've been embarrassed a few too many times so now i absolutely do not act ike i know everything I'll forever be a student in my mind regardless of what im doing.
I want say thank you for helping generalizing the idea of the Dunning Kruger Effect for yet another professional field. As a hobbyist photographer and a professional in other fields, I think that ignorance is a terrible blind spot for all of us and appreciate any chance to be reminded of that fact. There are never enough opportunities to remain humble in life. So, once again, thank you for sharing this concept with respect to photography. The constant reminder of a possibility of ignorance is worthwhile, keeps our ego's modest, and our minds curious for new knowledge.
im a lifestyle / "model" photographer who shoots as a hobby and you are absolutely right, this style isn't really categorized within any commercial or 'paid' photography genres, i do however get the satisfaction in the learning experience of retouching, shooting in different lighting scenarios, and the thought process of each theme.. this is probably different to photographers who shoots models as a main source of income whereby they are forced to resort to social media engagement for the likes.
I have to say I thought I was a lot better than I actually was ...and had a lot of false confidence but being an assistant for 6 years was an absolutely priceless education learning from the best in different genres.. the problem with photography in Australia now is anyone can buy a camera and instantly they're a professional photographer 🤷🏽♂
This is sadly everywhere. Someone buys a new camera or gets one for Christmas and immediately thinks they are a pro and can start charging for work. I see so many local photographers offer 100 images for $25 and can't help but laugh.
@@ozarksdigitalcreations9254 the example I use is people don’t hire a mate who owns a wrench if they have a problem with their plumbing but are completely fine with that when it comes to photography
On point. Im a full time photographer as well and your are so right. Its funny, because my girlfriends aunt once asked me: "Im following your Instagram and I really dont know how you are making a living out of that few images of actors and actresses". And I told her, that I am making my money with shooting advertising, high end retouching international campaigns and other stuff. Nothing I really show on Instagram. The Images of Actors are just working as a advertising for my photography business. And because of my Retouching backround (made huge stuff for every big brand out there) Im so tired of Photographers who are teaching, for example, "beauty" retouching without working a single time for a real beauty client in the real world... :D
I love this video there isn't enough people willing to share these kind of tips or experiences. I currently do sports photography that's is mostly wrestling focused with the occasional promotion shoots. I originally studied to do media in general and somehow found myself doing this type of photography when it wasn't my main focus. I have learned about what stuff I either thought I knew and like yourself found out I I know anything but with progression I am quickly adapting. The best advice I've learned from doing this is that you might take 100 pictures but only 10 of them may be good enough to use. The more pictures you take the more the chances of a good picture increases along with the knowledge of knowing what's important and what you can maybe leave out at the time. One thing I will always tell people who ask me how to work In this type of work or environment is always be willing to learn. Some people know ways you don't and vice versa so never be afraid to ask for advice and try out new techniques when you can.
I can't help but agree and disagree. I am a working photographer with professional work Billboard work up at JFK international and have just come back from Ukraine working as a photo journalist. The only way I've been able to do so much with my work in a relatively short amount of time is by sticking to my guns and doing things my way. Shooting everything the same as I would for personal projects, styling it as my own, I mean the whole kit and caboodle. I have specialized into working almost entirely for Distilleries and Breweries. It's been more difficult sure but I've gotten farther ahead in my career then if I'd try and be everyone else by making myself "Marketable". I do fully agree about the the DK effect. That hits every photographer at some point and can follow them forever. As mentioned above though, these sub categories can work out from time to time. It's easier than ever for anyone to claim to be a photographer and that can hurt actual working photographers without a doubt. I am reminded of the works of Rembrandt and the artists today who spend their entire life training to recreate Rembrandts look to a T. Arguably that takes far more technical know how and mastery of their craft - However history doesn't remember those who copy but those who innovate. Just as you know Rembrandt and not the artist spending years to copy his works.
Wow! As a self-made beginner "product photography student" this is very enlightening, thank you. I will keep options open, viewing my learning process as a door to discovering new paths that might lead to other niches.
holy shit, at first when I heard about dunning krueger effect i thought it will be a waste of time, but this is actually a video that every photographer should see
... Terry Richardson made a living "being bad" at $50,000 per day ad campaigns... He can shoot classically technically anything. His Father was Bob Richardson, so photography was in the family DNA. What is bad?
I guess you could say I do "model" photography. But I thought it was simply portrait photography? Sometimes it would have an editorial feel. Anyway indo it for the art not the money. I make my money elsewhere. I'm a new photographer but a longtime artist, so I can say that I think it's important to keep the art and the business separate. If a client isn't buying their photos, if they're doing it for art, who cares? It'd still legitimate. Butnof it's commercial, if there's a business client that has a need you fill, then that's a way to make a living. You don't care about the art you care about the money and providing a service. That's fine too. Don't get them confused.
For me, one great thing was learning that "you don't need to be the best yet!". I realised that I have my entire life to become a good photographer, and photography gets exciting when you know you have yet so much to learn and try. Imagine learning a language, and it would only take you a week. It is cool, but the years of learning and having something to works towards make it even more fun. I think the same with photography, more time = more goals to work towards = more fun in the longer run
Yeh the most interesting thing about the Dunning Kruger effect is that it really doesn't 'end', because progression is... well... progression. Trends, fashion, what is relevant, its all fluid and thus so are your perceptions (no matter how valid at the time).
I hear what you are saying. 12 years since I first picked up a camera although I'm a software dev, not a pro. I'm still learning even now. Everyone has their path and they have to find it but the internet can mislead people. It literally creates people who want to be an influencer as a job. That is mind boggling to me.
I find it hard to critically judge my own photos and it's only really possible after a significant amount of time has past and I haven't seen the image for a while. If I like it after a year or two then it might be a good shot but that's rarely the case, more often than not I see the flaws by that point.
I am just getting started as a hobby...but this resonates with me pretty deeply! I'm always asking my wife what she thinks about various photos...because I struggle to look at it with an outsiders perspective.
I struggle as well to judge my own. All I can go off is from family and friends. Occasionally from the few I put on Instagram but they’re rarely seen I think due to the huge number of other people doing the same. I know the ones I definitely like/dislike. One friend in particular who got into photography because I had, has progressed amazingly - similar to myself but we’ve got different strengths and weaknesses. I try to critique his stuff honestly (always with permission) with detail. Without rooting my horn I guarantee if it weren’t for my help (in many ways) he wouldn’t have progressed so quickly. But he either doesn’t have the words or understanding to do the same for me and it frustrates the crap out of me. He also has a lot more people who respond more readily to his stuff… even if it’s not really something they’d normally respond to. He’s kind of a big deal in a subculture we’re a part of. He’s not an egomaniac at all tho, one of the best men I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. But it does frustrate me haha. Sorry that turned into a bit of a vent lol.
See, I have reason to believe my amateur photography is better than those around me. I'm the only one in my Yearbook class that knows the difference between autofocus and manual focus.
This is so true! I've worked in pro studios for over a decade and I am now a self-employed photo-retoucher (amongst things). In the studio it was the non-"sexy" things that payed the bills.
There's an opposite situation with me. Everybody say I'm amazing, but I think I suck and it's not enough. I want to do more, but my problem is to find the right context. I also don't want to make average work and sometimes I end up doing nothing at all.
5:22 Consider how many cameras exist and how many mf'ers actually get paid to use them (the number is still WAYYYY too high) and this is true for the vast majority of people who claim to be photographers. "Yeah. That's not a job." Previous to that mark in the video, tho, I would advise you that what people think is great is subjective. Period. Popular doesn't equal good necessarily, but good (subjective) doesn't necessarily equal successful, either. Passion is no substitute for competency.
Bravo. Same thing happens in craftsmanship - its amazing to see the humility common to the real experts. A brave topic to peel open, but an important one. Loved it.
When I started I thought one of my swan photos was so good, I had the icing on a birthday cake "printed" onto it. Looking at it now, it was AWFUL and showed a real lack of any understanding of light and composition. I'm cringing just thinking about it.....but it was a nice cake.
If other people are happy with their photography and enjoy their own photographs what is point of dragging them? And if someone wants to carve a niche with models or restaurants, what difference does it make to anyone else. They will succeed or they won't. I don't see how butting into their lives to tell them they're going to fail -- whatever that means -- helps anyone.
I realized I was bad when I started my latest project. My goal was to take three good pictures a week for a year. I started with 0 followers this time last year. I now have two followers and 250+ pictures. No likes, no comments, etc. I feel so much better knowing that I just have a bad eye and to stop wasting time.
It transcends far beyond photography and you are coming back the Dunning-Krueger effect. Actually I think the topic is beyond psychology too, the humbleness Socrates expressed some 2500 years ago is pure wisdom and my question is: is there a place for virtue of any kind in our time? Anyone that put all of his life into something knows how hard it is trying to master something. Anything. I used to be an athlete, actually pretty good. But I didn't think in those terms while active, I just put all of my heart into something I loved to do. The result was never the goal, the passion was in itself. And I think that's a culptit of our time. The lack of passion, passion and the humble insight of how lousy we are. Great video, keep it up.
I'm an automotive photographer just for fun, as well as nature like birds and flowers, started in October 2022. I never have that peak of confidence, I just look at it go wow that's terrible, post a few, get some likes, try to do better and learn, repeat. I've come a long way in those 6 months but I realistically understand that my work will never be good and will never make me money
The funny thing about this video is the video talks about Dunning-Kruget yet the comments doesn't seem to grasp the video. Some people here are the literal definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect itself.
Ilove the dunning kruger effect :) because it never stops and that is kinda cool. You can not knwo how competent you are because you would need more knowledge that you actually have to accurately answer this. For me this is the absolute guide to be humble, easy to work with, accept advices and it keeps you in the state of wanting to learn more
I couldn't watch UA-cam videos about photography for several years because it hurt to see tutorials by beginning photographers. Worse was watching friends of mine recommending these UA-camrs calling them fashion photographers. That mirror effect made me laugh when every photographer wanted to buy an ocf to outshine the sun.
Boy, do you have a point here. I was helping a friend shoot 16 the other night. I’m not worried about the formal portraits other than the normal things that can go wrong personalities hair make people elements. I’ve already planned for back ups. Extra extra on camera extra receivers extra batteries. The gear has been planned extra camera bodies, in case of a massive malfunction, I already have flash transceiver and another camera body already set up. Just grab it out of the bag. I don’t do much event reception type stuff as I am someone making the transition from a hobbyist with a lot of black-and-white film and lab experience of 25 years. I’m worried about dark venue, color temps, gels, darkness, focusing issues, etc. I’m scared poopless of missing a mandatory moving entrance shot because of poor lighting.
I want to see what makes you money because I believe the reality of what kind of work gets you paid vs the fancy, flashy, highly technical is actually much more interesting because, to an extent, there's a simplicity to it that is quite charming.
I think what this is actually about is people who pretend they know what all the rules are and tell other people that no matter what they do they're doing it wrong.. that way they appear authoritative and other people see them as an authority to be trusted.. this authority could be completely wrong but as long as they act like they're right and everybody else is wrong, everyone thinks they're the man..
I agree with what you're saying completely but feel like many photographers, including me, have a big dilemma between art and content/pictures that clients want. I put tons of focus on my personal style and art because I see myself more as an artist than a photographer and with that create more creative, aesthetically artsy picture instead of mainstream pictures most people want. How can I create a clientele that wants to pay for my personal art rather than just photographs because I'm a photographer?
I'm an amateur when it comes to photography, but i get paid to do my work so i'm happy with that. Not enough to make a living out of it, but enough to take it more seriously. And everytime i see all these internet photographers i think about the good ones of the past. Cartier-Bresson didnt have 600 lights or $7000 lenses. He just shot his pics, and it shows how a free good eye is often enough and doesn't need expensive gear!
LOVE your Thumbnail! This video is Simply BRILLIANT! and is not only just for photography. I am 61 and love learning new things and watching this video you have helped me understand "You don't know what you don't know". I think the age old "Sex sells" so to make a buck or two take them pretty girl shots (or not). Love your teachings. Cheers
For real though, I'd probably watch and re-watch a video of you shooting what you do professionally - had enough of what's "marketable" for one lifetime hahaha
I think the simplest test to see if someone knows what they think they know, is to give them a few commercial shots ( could be portraits, studio, etc... ) and ask them to duplicate the shots. ( they have to know their cameras and pro lighting, so that you know the right lens and right camera position, and recognize the quality of the lighting so that you can duplicate it. Food photography is pretty difficult to do, but you need a good food stylist to create food that is photographic, and you as a photographer have to be able to shoot the food while it looks perfect. ( which is not very long, sometimes 10 minutes or less )
Your points are valid but you're not talking about bad photographer, but the bad businessman. The question is: Is your work pile of sh*t because it does not have any commercial value? No. I know photographers with successful wedding business who's work are total trash but they are booked for whole season and i know photographers working 9-5 job with the galery level artistic value of their work.
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Great message, but I do have to disagree with you a bit. I think it is someone's fault. I think it is the fault of the person who makes the untrue claims that allow it to snowball in the first place and, yes, those who accept it without critical thought. There is, after all, no substitute for personal responsibility. Someone once said that if you were to push a boulder off a bluff with houses below you can't blame gravity for the resulting destruction.
Hubris runs quite high among many photographers simply because they believe they're "artists" and ... after all, artists know "everything." LOL -
I speak from experience, having worked among such people in the industry. REAL photographers learned the craft long before the digital age.
These days, photographer constantly attempt to fix their f**k up jobs with Photoshop and a host of other programs, but it hardly matters, because shit cannot be fixed.
If your portrait or wedding photographer, for example, has not been in business for long, and has very few samples of professional work to show you, then ...
Then be ultra suspicious. Some of these imbeciles of cour$e charge you a fortune, and many of them manage to fortunately find customers of the same narcissistic personality type. One hand for one glove. It typically fits, and most often, if two compatible narcissists encounter each other, then they're in heaven. So the customer pays $15,000 for photography, and probably $75,000 for the entire wedding ... and then they get divorced 18 months later.
Happy photographer - semi happy customer.
Dunning kruger effect love it!
@@Anon54387 Not so fast if you read the Dunning kruger effect you will see that the person who suffers from it with a negative critic think the critic is actually wrong.
I know a very good photographer that has been around for decades. She quit several years ago when the iPhone syndrome got going. No one wanted to get really good images because their friends could "shoot the same thing" on an iPhone or similar. We are so inundated with mundane and redundant images I think we have lost our imagination and drive for something special.
A Nikon D300 looks better than any Iphone
Then again a small phone can be great for documentary work in disarming subjects. Stacy Kranitz shoots largely on a phone and her work in Appalcahia is some of the best I've seen. A good photograph is still a good photograph as well. I don't worry too much any more about what others think about what's good, it's the good opinion of those I respect that makes me feel I've taken something good. Especially those who aren't afraid to call me out when they think I've taken something bad!
And electronics engineers don't make what they did relative to other professions between the 1960s and now. Things change. Ultimately, photography isn't necessary the way food is. A former co-worker of mine that started doing product photography doesn't seem to understand this when he laments lack of work. I love photography, it is great fun for me as a hobby. I would never consider doing it for a living.
I had a similar conversation with a photographer back in 2005 long before camera phones were in anyway decent but he hated people taking pictures of his poses. He seemed to not really understand the difference in quality and put his poses as his work not his final images. I suspect he wasn't a very good photographer despite doing weddings for over 20 years at the time. 😂
@Hunter Barner did he get good images tho? Were the photos planned for large printing? Or just social media?
As a long term photography veteran of at least 15 minutes, I feel qualified to make deep swinging judgements with absolute confidence. Anything else would be abject cowardice.
Based
Part of the effect is due to the fact that when you know very little, anything you learn increases your overall knowledge by a huge percentage. To you, it seems you know a lot when in fact you only know a lot when compared to what you used to know.
Universal law... All truths are not half truths, as what's true in this second is rendered false in the next.
There is always more to learn. The basics like aperture, shutter speed and iso didnt take long for me to learn but I still struggle with composition and color. Last week I went to my friends concert and did some shots. My first time doing anything like it and its insane how much stuff you have to think about. Most images had something cut off in the background or were framed badly or didnt have good connection with the artist. I had to take lots of test shots. Good thing it was just a casual opportunity and nothing professional expected of me.
@@Xirpzy This is where I am at the beginning, at the bottom of the curve, I learn one new thing by trial with my camera, and as a result, 10 new things to learn suddenly pop up...
As a photographer if you're not constantly questioning yourself and looking at the work of others and wondering as to the guts, gumption and graft that got them that moment then you're not going to get much better. I think I now know enough to know how much I don't know.
Im a professional photographer and have been for 23 years. I never talk badly about other photographers for two reasons: 1. Art is subjective and 2. Being a photographer is HARD. I respect anyone with the courage to do it.
There we go.
If art were subjective, why is it difficult to be an artist?
Respect.
I will never say being a photographer is hard I completely disagree especially with my experience in physical labor being a photographer is not hard.
@@ared18t I suppose it's not as physically laborious as , say, construction or being a soldier in combat... But, it is very difficult to be a photographer especially at the top levels. But, feel free to disagree.
Man, I feel this to the core, Scott. You’ve said it SO well. You’re proof that audience size and knowledge do not correlate directly. And have confirmed my frustration with the comments section is okay 😂 The photography world needs this massively
I understand the point about popularity not being equivalent to knowledge… as to the rest of the video, photography is an art form which in turn makes it subjective. Not really anyone’s place to say what is or isn’t good
That's exactly what I feel right now. Got into portrait photography a year ago and after doing 2 or 3 sessions I was like hey thats pretty good. Now a year later whenever I look at those photos I can't comprehend how bad those were. Now I know it's a really long way to getting good and I'll probably never be as good as I'd wish to be
I'm a photographer and I'm trying to learn something new every day. What I've noticed about photographers is the majority of them think there way is the best way. Photography is an art and we all have our different styles of shooting there is no right or wrong way, no bad or good photographer (When it comes to shooting styles) it is just about finding the clients that like your style of work.
Photography stopped being an art decades ago. If you get into photography, as an artist or in other words; with the mindset of creating art, thinking you will actually make money and have your career succeed, you are just fooling yourself. Art does not sell nowadays. Nobody nowadays cares about art. People nowadays just want your service for their business, for their portfolio, for their website, their products, their events, their weddings or whatever else. They don't want art, they want your service. Photography nowadays, is just simply a service that you sell. If you think you will be able to sell art in this day and age, you need to get back down to Earth ASAP, because you will lose LOTS of time and LOTS of money chasing something that won't ever happen.
@nelo maratone I totally disagree with that but thanks for the comment
@@nogerboher5266Obviously you don’t frequent many art galleries, most have photographers on their books.
@@nogerboher5266 personally, I believe that honing your craft in whatever you want is a very nice thing, it can be really fulfilling. maybe, one day you’ll be famous enough to sell your art. Ive seen many photographers that have phenomenal photos that I would buy a print in a heartbeat, if they had some, to put on my wall… but in order to make a living off of photography, yes you have to hone your craft around a product, or something else to make it a service. That being said I think @our trio meant that some people will find their own visually pleasing ways to market themselves and their service in order to make a living off of photography. Many artists have their different ways of doing that, and some sell better than others. Like the photos in the video, there are some very minimal, clean photos of coke bottles and their brand colors. A big corporation like cocacola would probably be into that, because they dont want tacky photos on their billboards wasting them money. Some people will be better at making coke photos. On the other hand you could have a small business that thinks your style of photos suits their image very well, and you could end up a long term partner, in hopes that the company grows.
@@kiwimike2330 The thing is, people who get featured in art galleries, get photographer of the year awards, art museums, so on and so forth, they are a very, very tiny minority of all photographers around the world. You're talking about it like it's a common thing and a stable way of earning stable income, for all photographers around the world... It's not. Not even close.
You're talking about 0.01% of photographers worldwide, highly likely even less than 0.01%, that get their work featured in an art gallery, art museum or similar - and out of those 0.01% that do get lucky enough, 80% don't see a single penny from their work being featured in a museum or any art gallery anywhere.
I just came across this video, subscribed straight away.
I am a Professional photographer (I have a BA Hons in Photography, Video and Digital Imaging, although photography is not my only job right now in the company) and so much of this video makes so much sense.
I work out of a small studio (which is part of a much larger performing arts based business and shop). I honestly think watching your video has made me re-open my eyes too, thank you
I work as a comms manager and there's a massive thing where as soon as you start taking team pics with an f1.2 etc, all your teammates start telling you you're amazing at photography. Comms can be a cliche-ridden environment, and it seems it's especially undemanding when it comes to being impressed by simple photos.
I've accepted that I will always fall victim to the Dunning-Kruger effect so I've simply surrendered to it and do my best to recognize that I always have something to learn. Even so, when it comes to art, photography, etc, I just do what I personally like. If I see someone doing something I really like, I try to emulate that. It's ultimately very selfish but I just stick to the things that I personally find appealing, regardless of if it's "right" or "wrong." However, I'm also not a professional so I suppose I can afford to have this sort of carefree attitude lol.
In the end, I will say this, perhaps in contrast to this video, if you know the basics of whatever field you are in and are doing your best to keep that kind of stuff in mind, you are already head and shoulders above many others, especially people like me who just do whatever. If you actually put in the time and effort, you are on your way to making good shit. Just don't get arrogant.
I actually hate your videos! Because you actually tell the truth and give good advice. You tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear.
Keep up the good work.
Ps . The first part of the sentence was being sarcastic.
Keep the educational videos coming
I've been a "freelance" photographer for some time now, and I always wanted to call myself a "professional" but I always hesitate at that because like you stated, most of us just shoot models or people who think they want to be models for instagram, and hell that does NOT pay the bills, not by a long shot. It doesn't even pay, like ever. My one job that I got paid for was for a wedding, and damn that was a ton of work. I've been frustrated with photography for like a year now because I've been stuck, not knowing what I could do to actually get paid for doing what I enjoy. And just as you said, its not gonna happen, at least not by just shooting people here and there. I see even some photographers offering "business courses" which I'm starting to think is their very own pyramid scheme, because they rarely tell you what to even do with your photos when you learn how to shoot, who do you sell them to or how to market yourself to start to sell your photography. It seems that some of these photographers primarily make their living off selling training courses, not by selling their photography.
You're the first in a long line of photographers on youtube that actually gave me even a breadcrumb of a starting point. An agent. SImple as that, though probably not that simple but at least its a first step. I've been looking for a first step for so long, that I've got myself lost. Thank you for putting me on track again!
Sounds to me like you should try to offer business courses, id' be hilarious if it turns out to be a gold mine
Very true! I’ve encountered a handful of videographers/photographers offering courses on how to work yourself up to getting 10k per month in retainer costs with brands
The photographers in question DONT have any actual credible work to show for their claims. Maybe that’s a form of Dunning Kruger on my part but I simply can’t bring myself to taking advice from no-so-good photographers or photographers with ZERO work that would warrant getting any tips or (paid) mentorship
Totally fell victim to Dunning-Kruger phenomena. Applied for a graphic design role and got an interview. Showed them my portfolio and the interviewer told me that he can see my skills, but there's nothing applicable for the role or that he would need. My world sunk.
But I learnt an extremely valuable lesson. I'm shifting to Photography because it's something I enjoy more. I'm putting hours outside of work to build a respectable showcase of what I can do in my field of interest, even if it means working for free.
The AOP advice is really valuable, thank you for sharing your thoughts 🙏 sometimes we need someone to tell us the harsh truth.
Just because a job refused you doesnt mean you are not good of the other way around. If they said they can see your skill means you are not bad. If a portret photographer aplies for a real estate job he probably wont get it either.
I agree with Yodd, it was your style not your skill that did not get you the job, see where your style of photography works the best
My mom always told me that I was a *Great Photographer* and I agreed with her! So that means one of us didn't know what she was talking about.
I understand and agree mostly with what you say about the lack of career path and commercial viability e.g. for "model photographers". But doesn't the same apply for (almost) all street photographers? I mean, who will ever book anyone to take candid pictures of strangers/pedestrians, mostly black & white and usually terribly boring? I strongly assume they all don't have an agent and/or a real industry, either. I think there were many still life painters over the last centuries, and I assume almost none of them were painting strawberries in order to enhance the numbers & figures of the national strawberry market of their time and country... I think there are photographers who just shoot beautiful people and maybe make a little money with prints or books, and there are sports, cars, architectural photographers who make a living on their camera without having an agent... In my previous appartement I had a (huge) 2000$ photograph on my wall which I considered worth every penny, and I do think that photographer did not have "an agent in the industry", either... Just my two cents...
This advice is so good and applicable to almost any industry. Chances are, your target customers aren’t the other professionals in your field. When we try to impress our colleagues, we often entirely miss the market.
Facts. When I started photography over 30 years ago, I worked as an assistant for a commercial photographer. What I saw him create was the standard. As well as the great imagery I would see in magazines. There was also a book called The Black Book. This was a promo book filled with the work of working photographers that would go out to art directors, ad agencies, and other photo buyers and creatives.
i think it might be pretty healthy to fall victim to the dunning krüger effect, it shows necessary confidence in your character and work. opposed to people who are constantly doubtful in their abilities and the things they create.
I agree. You have no way of knowing youre at the bottom if you cant see the top. but at least you can be willing to make that hike up there
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
-Charles Bukowski
That's pretty much me I didn't pick up a camera for years because I was scared of taking bad photos, even now have to keep myself in check. Thing is though I'm meant to be an illustrator, that's what my degree is in after all, and yet I haven't picked up a pencil or a brush now in almost 3 years from fear of failure...
"But if I show you how to do a 57 light setup" I totally get that. And I was very much into that to start with. Watching Seth Miranda use 10 speed lights to light a shot was super cool. And he really does know his stuff. But now I watch him still and I watch a guy like Ab Sesay who does those videos some people would find boring. Like testing 50 different types of diffusion. Or going through what's the best softbox. Or 15+ different types of light stands. Those are the videos and information that interests me now that I'm passed that initial Dunning Kruger effect. And realizing how much about everything else in photography I don't know. And I like videos like these with real life philosophy and insight. Thank you Scott. Keep this up if you can. I appreciate it.
"If I show you what actually gets me paid, I get no views." That's how I feel when I start talking to people who see a lot of my concert photography and think that's all I do.
That's the FUN stuff, the stuff that doesn't pay, many times at least. But I do make some money in the music photo biz. It has led to bigger opportunities, and so I can't totally knock it, but it takes a LONG time to get your foot in that door.
The trade off is I get into big name shows, and I get a photo pass for the memory book, and the photos for the memory book and a presence online, and of course the trade off is an article or photos for the show.
I think people who do it for vanity are more likely to be egocentric about their photography. People who do it because they enjoy it are more likely to be good at it
That's why I like this channel, it's so refreshing to listen to someone who has the experience because they learned their craft the hard way, and not from the so called experts who think they know everything because they saw it on UA-cam.
I love photography deeply but would never try to make a living from it. Fair play to you for making it pay. Every time I start to think that I'm a great photographer I open a Salgado book.
I love the The Dunning-Kruger effect and use it nearly daily.
A fellow photographer once gave me the greatest piece of advice when I started out 30 years ago…’If you don’t believe in yourself,nobody else will!” The thing is,photography is very subjective,if your clients continue to pay you,that’s all that matters,there is no rule book.
That’s the great subjectivity of art. There are mediocre photographers who make a living and there are amazing photographers that haven’t made a cent. The photos I like to take and the photos I make money with are two wildly different genres.
This video and similar have been so necessary for a long time. It's answered lots of important questions, which no-one else has.
There is always room to learn and be humble
This has to be hands down the best photography business video I have ever seen! - side note about "model photographer" I live in LA and see a lot of them, all broke claiming to be all that. along those lines I offer models free digitals, measurement, agency shots all for free. In this day and age it makes no sense to charge a model for those basic services. granted it takes time and effort, but I have my own studio and it keeps me shooting and networking of which pays off in the end.
Amen 🙌🏼
I came here from Carty’s shout out this morning. Glad to see you! Love your content and subscribed
Im 33. Ive learned at a fairly early age that I'm not mr amazing at anything and never be a cocky douche. I've been embarrassed a few too many times so now i absolutely do not act ike i know everything
I'll forever be a student in my mind regardless of what im doing.
I can't tell you how many times I've taken a photo... look back at it months later and think... "how did I think this was good?"
101 absolute truth bombs in one video. Brilliant! Respectfully submitted, NOT A Model Photographer!
Absolutely 100% agree on “model photographers”.
I just love your honesty and just telling it as it is - So refreshing.
I want say thank you for helping generalizing the idea of the Dunning Kruger Effect for yet another professional field. As a hobbyist photographer and a professional in other fields, I think that ignorance is a terrible blind spot for all of us and appreciate any chance to be reminded of that fact.
There are never enough opportunities to remain humble in life.
So, once again, thank you for sharing this concept with respect to photography. The constant reminder of a possibility of ignorance is worthwhile, keeps our ego's modest, and our minds curious for new knowledge.
Let me just say, I've never once thought my photography was good. I am constantly doubting my work and never satisfied
You give the most value advice I ever heard about photography for free. Thanks - Paulo from Brazil
im a lifestyle / "model" photographer who shoots as a hobby and you are absolutely right, this style isn't really categorized within any commercial or 'paid' photography genres, i do however get the satisfaction in the learning experience of retouching, shooting in different lighting scenarios, and the thought process of each theme.. this is probably different to photographers who shoots models as a main source of income whereby they are forced to resort to social media engagement for the likes.
The great Tiziano Magni once told me the sentiment you should feel is 80% good and about 20% uncertain during any creative endeavor.
I have to say I thought I was a lot better than I actually was ...and had a lot of false confidence but being an assistant for 6 years was an absolutely priceless education learning from the best in different genres.. the problem with photography in Australia now is anyone can buy a camera and instantly they're a professional photographer 🤷🏽♂
This is sadly everywhere. Someone buys a new camera or gets one for Christmas and immediately thinks they are a pro and can start charging for work. I see so many local photographers offer 100 images for $25 and can't help but laugh.
@@ozarksdigitalcreations9254 the example I use is people don’t hire a mate who owns a wrench if they have a problem with their plumbing but are completely fine with that when it comes to photography
On point. Im a full time photographer as well and your are so right. Its funny, because my girlfriends aunt once asked me: "Im following your Instagram and I really dont know how you are making a living out of that few images of actors and actresses". And I told her, that I am making my money with shooting advertising, high end retouching international campaigns and other stuff. Nothing I really show on Instagram. The Images of Actors are just working as a advertising for my photography business. And because of my Retouching backround (made huge stuff for every big brand out there) Im so tired of Photographers who are teaching, for example, "beauty" retouching without working a single time for a real beauty client in the real world... :D
I love this video there isn't enough people willing to share these kind of tips or experiences.
I currently do sports photography that's is mostly wrestling focused with the occasional promotion shoots.
I originally studied to do media in general and somehow found myself doing this type of photography when it wasn't my main focus.
I have learned about what stuff I either thought I knew and like yourself found out I I know anything but with progression I am quickly adapting.
The best advice I've learned from doing this is that you might take 100 pictures but only 10 of them may be good enough to use.
The more pictures you take the more the chances of a good picture increases along with the knowledge of knowing what's important and what you can maybe leave out at the time.
One thing I will always tell people who ask me how to work In this type of work or environment is always be willing to learn.
Some people know ways you don't and vice versa so never be afraid to ask for advice and try out new techniques when you can.
I can't help but agree and disagree. I am a working photographer with professional work Billboard work up at JFK international and have just come back from Ukraine working as a photo journalist. The only way I've been able to do so much with my work in a relatively short amount of time is by sticking to my guns and doing things my way. Shooting everything the same as I would for personal projects, styling it as my own, I mean the whole kit and caboodle. I have specialized into working almost entirely for Distilleries and Breweries. It's been more difficult sure but I've gotten farther ahead in my career then if I'd try and be everyone else by making myself "Marketable".
I do fully agree about the the DK effect. That hits every photographer at some point and can follow them forever. As mentioned above though, these sub categories can work out from time to time. It's easier than ever for anyone to claim to be a photographer and that can hurt actual working photographers without a doubt. I am reminded of the works of Rembrandt and the artists today who spend their entire life training to recreate Rembrandts look to a T. Arguably that takes far more technical know how and mastery of their craft - However history doesn't remember those who copy but those who innovate. Just as you know Rembrandt and not the artist spending years to copy his works.
What an important video this is! Thank you. You are definitely one of my favorite photographers today. Well done.
Hahaha, I can really relate to this. It’s more flattering to be humble than arrogant and probably better for the long term. Thx for this!
Wow! As a self-made beginner "product photography student" this is very enlightening, thank you. I will keep options open, viewing my learning process as a door to discovering new paths that might lead to other niches.
this video is so much more then just photographers it’s any craft .
holy shit, at first when I heard about dunning krueger effect i thought it will be a waste of time, but this is actually a video that every photographer should see
... Terry Richardson made a living "being bad" at $50,000 per day ad campaigns... He can shoot classically technically anything. His Father was Bob Richardson, so photography was in the family DNA. What is bad?
UA-cam is the dunning krueger effect in action. It depends on it. The amount of experience and knowledge is astounding😏....
I guess you could say I do "model" photography. But I thought it was simply portrait photography? Sometimes it would have an editorial feel. Anyway indo it for the art not the money. I make my money elsewhere.
I'm a new photographer but a longtime artist, so I can say that I think it's important to keep the art and the business separate. If a client isn't buying their photos, if they're doing it for art, who cares? It'd still legitimate. Butnof it's commercial, if there's a business client that has a need you fill, then that's a way to make a living. You don't care about the art you care about the money and providing a service. That's fine too. Don't get them confused.
Teachable spirit.... the ability to accept criticism, and improve upon the new information. THAT makes a good photographer.
For me, one great thing was learning that "you don't need to be the best yet!". I realised that I have my entire life to become a good photographer, and photography gets exciting when you know you have yet so much to learn and try. Imagine learning a language, and it would only take you a week. It is cool, but the years of learning and having something to works towards make it even more fun. I think the same with photography, more time = more goals to work towards = more fun in the longer run
Yeh the most interesting thing about the Dunning Kruger effect is that it really doesn't 'end', because progression is... well... progression. Trends, fashion, what is relevant, its all fluid and thus so are your perceptions (no matter how valid at the time).
I hear what you are saying. 12 years since I first picked up a camera although I'm a software dev, not a pro. I'm still learning even now. Everyone has their path and they have to find it but the internet can mislead people. It literally creates people who want to be an influencer as a job. That is mind boggling to me.
I find it hard to critically judge my own photos and it's only really possible after a significant amount of time has past and I haven't seen the image for a while. If I like it after a year or two then it might be a good shot but that's rarely the case, more often than not I see the flaws by that point.
I am just getting started as a hobby...but this resonates with me pretty deeply! I'm always asking my wife what she thinks about various photos...because I struggle to look at it with an outsiders perspective.
I struggle as well to judge my own. All I can go off is from family and friends. Occasionally from the few I put on Instagram but they’re rarely seen I think due to the huge number of other people doing the same. I know the ones I definitely like/dislike.
One friend in particular who got into photography because I had, has progressed amazingly - similar to myself but we’ve got different strengths and weaknesses. I try to critique his stuff honestly (always with permission) with detail. Without rooting my horn I guarantee if it weren’t for my help (in many ways) he wouldn’t have progressed so quickly. But he either doesn’t have the words or understanding to do the same for me and it frustrates the crap out of me. He also has a lot more people who respond more readily to his stuff… even if it’s not really something they’d normally respond to. He’s kind of a big deal in a subculture we’re a part of. He’s not an egomaniac at all tho, one of the best men I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. But it does frustrate me haha.
Sorry that turned into a bit of a vent lol.
I just googled "model photography" ... geesh. Agreed on all you said.
See, I have reason to believe my amateur photography is better than those around me. I'm the only one in my Yearbook class that knows the difference between autofocus and manual focus.
Excellent video. Glad I found your channel! And your work is amazing!!
This is so true! I've worked in pro studios for over a decade and I am now a self-employed photo-retoucher (amongst things). In the studio it was the non-"sexy" things that payed the bills.
One reason why I try not to give unasked for advice, I just tell people to keep shooting photography.
There's an opposite situation with me. Everybody say I'm amazing, but I think I suck and it's not enough. I want to do more, but my problem is to find the right context. I also don't want to make average work and sometimes I end up doing nothing at all.
5:22 Consider how many cameras exist and how many mf'ers actually get paid to use them (the number is still WAYYYY too high) and this is true for the vast majority of people who claim to be photographers. "Yeah. That's not a job." Previous to that mark in the video, tho, I would advise you that what people think is great is subjective. Period. Popular doesn't equal good necessarily, but good (subjective) doesn't necessarily equal successful, either. Passion is no substitute for competency.
FAN-TASTIC Video. Very good information.
I find it literally entertaining when I experience one of these “Ah-Ha” moments and realize I’m so green.
“I should take them down but it still makes money “
At least you have honest mind
Bravo. Same thing happens in craftsmanship - its amazing to see the humility common to the real experts. A brave topic to peel open, but an important one. Loved it.
That bright light on your right is killing me. Otherwise, excellent work, thank you!
When I started I thought one of my swan photos was so good, I had the icing on a birthday cake "printed" onto it. Looking at it now, it was AWFUL and showed a real lack of any understanding of light and composition. I'm cringing just thinking about it.....but it was a nice cake.
If other people are happy with their photography and enjoy their own photographs what is point of dragging them? And if someone wants to carve a niche with models or restaurants, what difference does it make to anyone else. They will succeed or they won't. I don't see how butting into their lives to tell them they're going to fail -- whatever that means -- helps anyone.
I realized I was bad when I started my latest project. My goal was to take three good pictures a week for a year. I started with 0 followers this time last year. I now have two followers and 250+ pictures. No likes, no comments, etc. I feel so much better knowing that I just have a bad eye and to stop wasting time.
Bang on. I feel like the dunning Kruger rainstorm follows me around! Enjoying the channel mate. 🙏
It transcends far beyond photography and you are coming back the Dunning-Krueger effect. Actually I think the topic is beyond psychology too, the humbleness Socrates expressed some 2500 years ago is pure wisdom and my question is: is there a place for virtue of any kind in our time? Anyone that put all of his life into something knows how hard it is trying to master something. Anything. I used to be an athlete, actually pretty good. But I didn't think in those terms while active, I just put all of my heart into something I loved to do. The result was never the goal, the passion was in itself. And I think that's a culptit of our time. The lack of passion, passion and the humble insight of how lousy we are. Great video, keep it up.
I'm an automotive photographer just for fun, as well as nature like birds and flowers, started in October 2022. I never have that peak of confidence, I just look at it go wow that's terrible, post a few, get some likes, try to do better and learn, repeat. I've come a long way in those 6 months but I realistically understand that my work will never be good and will never make me money
The funny thing about this video is the video talks about Dunning-Kruget yet the comments doesn't seem to grasp the video. Some people here are the literal definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect itself.
I ask this question all the time!
Ilove the dunning kruger effect :) because it never stops and that is kinda cool. You can not knwo how competent you are because you would need more knowledge that you actually have to accurately answer this. For me this is the absolute guide to be humble, easy to work with, accept advices and it keeps you in the state of wanting to learn more
super thanks for this honest glimpse in photography
All of this! Alot of people trying to teach photography on youtube are just influencer in masks trying to get you hooked on their content.
I can usually pick them out when they advertise that they are a "professional" that "specializes" in "natural light".
I couldn't watch UA-cam videos about photography for several years because it hurt to see tutorials by beginning photographers. Worse was watching friends of mine recommending these UA-camrs calling them fashion photographers. That mirror effect made me laugh when every photographer wanted to buy an ocf to outshine the sun.
Boy, do you have a point here. I was helping a friend shoot 16 the other night. I’m not worried about the formal portraits other than the normal things that can go wrong personalities hair make people elements. I’ve already planned for back ups. Extra extra on camera extra receivers extra batteries. The gear has been planned extra camera bodies, in case of a massive malfunction, I already have flash transceiver and another camera body already set up. Just grab it out of the bag.
I don’t do much event reception type stuff as I am someone making the transition from a hobbyist with a lot of black-and-white film and lab experience of 25 years. I’m worried about dark venue, color temps, gels, darkness, focusing issues, etc. I’m scared poopless of missing a mandatory moving entrance shot because of poor lighting.
I want to see what makes you money because I believe the reality of what kind of work gets you paid vs the fancy, flashy, highly technical is actually much more interesting because, to an extent, there's a simplicity to it that is quite charming.
I think what this is actually about is people who pretend they know what all the rules are and tell other people that no matter what they do they're doing it wrong.. that way they appear authoritative and other people see them as an authority to be trusted.. this authority could be completely wrong but as long as they act like they're right and everybody else is wrong, everyone thinks they're the man..
Well said. I've been shooting for almost 30 years and one of the WORST thing that has happened to me creatively is joining Instagram.
Instagram promotes conformity -
I agree with what you're saying completely but feel like many photographers, including me, have a big dilemma between art and content/pictures that clients want. I put tons of focus on my personal style and art because I see myself more as an artist than a photographer and with that create more creative, aesthetically artsy picture instead of mainstream pictures most people want.
How can I create a clientele that wants to pay for my personal art rather than just photographs because I'm a photographer?
I'm an amateur when it comes to photography, but i get paid to do my work so i'm happy with that. Not enough to make a living out of it, but enough to take it more seriously. And everytime i see all these internet photographers i think about the good ones of the past. Cartier-Bresson didnt have 600 lights or $7000 lenses. He just shot his pics, and it shows how a free good eye is often enough and doesn't need expensive gear!
LOVE your Thumbnail! This video is Simply BRILLIANT! and is not only just for photography. I am 61 and love learning new things and watching this video you have helped me understand "You don't know what you don't know". I think the age old "Sex sells" so to make a buck or two take them pretty girl shots (or not). Love your teachings. Cheers
Very wise and informative. Loved the video ❤
When it comes to photography its about what you or the client likes
“The number of likes and followers means nothing”
My brain: so I’m a great photographer
Lol I'm always nervous that I don't know enough and then I'm pleasantly surprised when I'm able to catch my mistakes and improve my photography.
For real though, I'd probably watch and re-watch a video of you shooting what you do professionally - had enough of what's "marketable" for one lifetime hahaha
So said the man with a bright light visible in the background.
I think the simplest test to see if someone knows what they think they know, is to give them a few commercial shots ( could be portraits, studio, etc... ) and ask them to duplicate the shots. ( they have to know their cameras and pro lighting, so that you know the right lens and right camera position, and recognize the quality of the lighting so that you can duplicate it. Food photography is pretty difficult to do, but you need a good food stylist to create food that is photographic, and you as a photographer have to be able to shoot the food while it looks perfect. ( which is not very long, sometimes 10 minutes or less )
yo that pineapple pic is wild. Well done.
Your points are valid but you're not talking about bad photographer, but the bad businessman. The question is: Is your work pile of sh*t because it does not have any commercial value? No. I know photographers with successful wedding business who's work are total trash but they are booked for whole season and i know photographers working 9-5 job with the galery level artistic value of their work.