Peter Hine, the MTA "tour guide" in this video was a dear friend of mine for 37 years. This video captures him perfectly. He's funny, resourceful, and wistful about lost Edens. What a great guy and great New Yorker--despite being born & raised in Cleveland. ;) Just a month after this NBC video aired, Peter had a massive stroke and was comatose for 4 months before passing away, March 8, 2012. [Do a search for "obituary peter j hine" to read more about Peter's life.] I'm so glad to have this footage, showing my friend doing what he loved. He was a huge fan of The Who and I recall him citing bassist John Entwistle's "Heaven and Hell" as we discussed Entwistle's death in 2002. Give the song a listen and think of Peter, who "did NOTHING wrong." Rest in Transit, Pete!
This is the truth! Many New York Streets, especially in Queens and Brooklyn, were more than wide enough to accommodate streetcars. This remains a dark part of LaGuardia's legacy.
@@oofyalDAMMIT when the streetcars stopped crossing the bridge the williamsburg bridge plaza on the brooklyn side became a trolley terminal. it's now a bus terminal. pretty cool that even though the mode changed the foot of the bridge still serves as a transit destination.
Many years ago I was a station agent for MTA New York City Subway. I may not wear the uniform anymore, but I still consider all transit people my brethren. Rest in Peace, Mr. Hine.
It took you guys 60 years to figure this out? I remember staring into this space on almost a daily basis years ago. Such a shame it has gone like this for so long such a shame...
You can blame Mayor LaGuardia too - he was very anti-trolley well before WWII. When Brooklyn and Queens Transit Company recieved their first 100 PCC cars in 1936, they wanted to order 400 more. LaGuardia told that if the 400 PCC's were ordered, he would revoke their franchise. Same for Third Avenue Railways - that's why TARS never ordered PCC's.
Now it's been almost 11 years and nothing has been done or built on that space...Don't hold your breath with MTA. They have always been late to thier own funeral..
As a fellow New Yorker, I think it would be cool to see that space be turned into a restaurant with memorabilia from the 1900's to 1940's when the trolley terminal was used. Or, even a dance club with the dispatch tower be turned into the DJ booth. Just some thoughts.
yeah…an underground park right near an active subway line? When the East River Park is a block away? The idea is innovative, and got the discussion of the space started, but I don't think that's the best use of the space. Something involving 21st c. Trolleys would be good.
Always thought the old City Hall Station should be turned into a restaurant or night club. Put up plexiglass and soundproofing at the edge of the platform and watch the trains go by
It is obviously a abandoned Trolly Terminal cuz NYC used to have a light rail like system but that was over a hundred years ago, so NYC Nowadays has only Heavy rail system known as the: *Subway*
This might be a good idea for the old street trolley terminal first put a floor to ceiling window up next to the active tracks so that people don't set foot out on them then restore the floor then put in a glass floor like in the grand canyon thing then build a miniature working version of the new york subway and surrounding rail lines also adding on past lines like the street trolley then with the dispatch booths they could put the control boards for the train tracks and stuff by doing this you can showcase the terminal and the entire mta train system for history and train buffs i say history buffs because you could run every car that has ever run in the system on the model system that way it keeps the history of the metro alive.
Bus terminal. First, have the new Nostrand Avenue Bus Rapid Transit line end at this station. Second, make this the Lower East Side terminal for inter-city buses like Bolt, Mega, Hampton Jitney, etc. This way they're not idling on the street, and this station could supplement the overcrowded Port Authority terminal. We have a shortage of bus station capacity in the city, and transfers between buses and subways are often difficult. This would add to the city's station capacity, while making transfers to 4 subway lines simple. Let's not waste this terminal. If people want a park, let's build it in the sun above ground amongst those new developing properties.
They probably had to check for rats before filming that whole thing. Someone mentioned this video is now 7 yrs old. It's now Sept 2022 and that space is still there. It's a site for sore eyes. 😩 But there is indeed lots of potential there in the right creative hands.
@iron45451 They already have that, its called the 36th Street Yard. (Correct me if im wrong), but thats where the refuse trains go in Brooklyn. Plus they store them in the other IRT/BMT/IND Yards. I also highly doubt this would become a museum as well.
There’s also room for a fourth platform to make Essex St station an express station with the same layout as that of both Penn Stations and Atlantic Ave on the Eastern Pkwy Line. The “express” tracks which actually stop at both stations in-between, those being Bowery and Canal St, end at Chambers St. If Myrtle Ave’s upper level was restored and parallel to the current lower level, the Jamaica Line between Essex St and Myrtle Ave could become a 4-track line and the latter station can become a bi-level express station like Bergen St (minus the fact that the express platforms are abandoned there). This way, the brown M could return and this time, not interfere with the J at all. The V could also return to replace its replacement. The only issues I see are space on the Williamsburg Bridge and between the buildings. But I still think this is a smart way to eliminate bottlenecks despite their high cost.
The best thing to do about this space is to leave this piece of history alone. If not, I wish for it to be converted into a gig venue/coffee shop/hangout spot but most preferably a music coffee shop with most of its decadent features, aesthetics and architecture still present.
In my opinion, the worse thing the city did was abolish all the trolley service in favor of buses. It was short sighted. They should have kept some of them as Philadelphia and Boston did. But when there are powerful corporations looking to sell their products and politians who want to curry favor with them a lot goes to shit.
Who would want to set up shop in that empty space? Maybe it is just me, but I would go nuts, if I have to hear the subway trains screech (while it is turning) every day.
(2:35) those "vacant lots" that were mentioned is the area known as the seward park urban renewal area "spura". A living neighborhood, acquired in 1965 with actual demolition of buildings in 1967 (1,852 families were affected). some families were relocated to new housing built in spura. but the rest of the vacant lots remain empty as debate and fighting between developers, the city, and the community STILL continues on what to do with the damn area, 45 years of endless talk!!!
Worse comes to worse, they could always restart the old trolley system back up. What ever is done with it, I hope its left open like that. It's cool being able to be next to the trains like that.
I think they should install tracks lowering to the lower F train level and during the week M trains will run on these tracks and instead of stopping on the upper level they will stop on the lower level and begin stopping at 2nd Avenue and people on the upper level waiting for the train on the upper level can see how the M train will go lowering to the lower level and on weekends will be regular weekend M service (metropolitan Avenue to delancy Essex) terminate on the J Z train track.
It should be a yard for m trains that terminate here and store them there during late nights. ORRRRR... It could be the terminal for the second ave subway T line and make trains terminate there instead of Hanover sq
NYCT Enthusiast I believe that the space should be used expansion of the station to remove the slow speeds coming into and out of the station. Having SAS trains terminate here would not relieve crowding on the Lexington Avenue IRT.
I don’t think people will be keen to hang out near an active subway line not to mention the constant noise there’s probably a whole city’s worth of rats and rodents that’s gonna make it’s way into whatever goes there.
Bring back the NYC Trolley Network & eliminate the Select Bus Service as it's being replaced by trolleys. We need more options for public transportation!
A long shot, but I hope something happens with the space. Seems like any major construction project, much less one that requires cross business cooperation, takes a millennia.
I like how the MTA is proud of the fact that this monstrosity remained untouched for 65 fucking years and passengers were forced to look at and smell that ugly shit hole as part of their daily commute. And they're trying to make it look like something cool...
the MTA was bankrupt did you see the MTA in the 1970 and 80 they did not even have enough money to maintain their subway cars. After the refurbishment in the late 90,s and the new order of cars in the 2000. Now they have enough money to finally do something with the space.
hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha! YEAH right!.....it's still nothing there to this day maybe Donald J Trump should invest this poor development after all he's also a real estate giant....Yeah right hahaha hahaha! build more homes for native New Yorkers MAN!
Peter Hine, the MTA "tour guide" in this video was a dear friend of mine for 37 years. This video captures him perfectly. He's funny, resourceful, and wistful about lost Edens. What a great guy and great New Yorker--despite being born & raised in Cleveland. ;) Just a month after this NBC video aired, Peter had a massive stroke and was comatose for 4 months before passing away, March 8, 2012. [Do a search for "obituary peter j hine" to read more about Peter's life.] I'm so glad to have this footage, showing my friend doing what he loved. He was a huge fan of The Who and I recall him citing bassist John Entwistle's "Heaven and Hell" as we discussed Entwistle's death in 2002. Give the song a listen and think of Peter, who "did NOTHING wrong." Rest in Transit, Pete!
May he rest in peace 🙏
Well it’s been 8 yrs since this was posted and I’m currently staring into this empty space as I’m waiting for the M train .
These people can say whatever they want. Does not mean is going to happen.
PainandMotivation the sad truth!
@@rosamorales1219 yup agree
Actually the area is being used as a Office
@@PainandMotivation Good point, never has never will...All of us will die of old age and will be done...
This is the truth! Many New York Streets, especially in Queens and Brooklyn, were more than wide enough to accommodate streetcars. This remains a dark part of LaGuardia's legacy.
I'd love to see the space resume service as a trolley terminal
Hell yeah
Be cool if NYC had light rail for us and that could be a hub!
Even as a bus terminal it could be useful.
@@TheStig_TG I agree with this option a whole lot, and some parts of Williamsburg Br Plaza can be used as a light rail terminal too
@@oofyalDAMMIT when the streetcars stopped crossing the bridge the williamsburg bridge plaza on the brooklyn side became a trolley terminal. it's now a bus terminal. pretty cool that even though the mode changed the foot of the bridge still serves as a transit destination.
Many years ago I was a station agent for MTA New York City Subway.
I may not wear the uniform anymore, but I still consider all transit people my brethren.
Rest in Peace, Mr. Hine.
It took you guys 60 years to figure this out? I remember staring into this space on almost a daily basis years ago. Such a shame it has gone like this for so long such a shame...
71 years now 🤣
For years and years and years I used to past by that site and wonder what the hell was all that abandoned space there for.
I think they should make a museum here for all of the mta past trains in will be very interesting
They already have one in Brooklyn.
@@Cain-x not to mention the Seashore Trolley Museum as well that has old mta trains as well
You can blame Mayor LaGuardia too - he was very anti-trolley well before WWII. When Brooklyn and Queens Transit Company recieved their first 100 PCC cars in 1936, they wanted to order 400 more. LaGuardia told that if the 400 PCC's were ordered, he would revoke their franchise. Same for Third Avenue Railways - that's why TARS never ordered PCC's.
you can expand essex street into a larger station with more tracks and less crowds
+Quincy Hills
LOL!
That would destroy this memorial and what could they really do with the area
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Honestly, it should either be a mini-transit museum or used as an underground train yard, maybe a market too
Now it's been almost 11 years and nothing has been done or built on that space...Don't hold your breath with MTA. They have always been late to thier own funeral..
This was part of Brooklyn's tram network. Manhattan's tram lines had electric underground conduits instead of overhead wires.
I get a kick out of the part where he pegs it as the DJ's booth .... Love it ..
As a fellow New Yorker, I think it would be cool to see that space be turned into a restaurant with memorabilia from the 1900's to 1940's when the trolley terminal was used. Or, even a dance club with the dispatch tower be turned into the DJ booth. Just some thoughts.
I would Use Part of the trolley terminal as an additional platform and track at Essex Street and the rest of the terminal should be a resturant
yeah…an underground park right near an active subway line? When the East River Park is a block away? The idea is innovative, and got the discussion of the space started, but I don't think that's the best use of the space. Something involving 21st c. Trolleys would be good.
A big Subway sandwich shop. Or an expansion of the transit museum. With exhibits about trolleys.
Would be nice if either trolley or light rail or another subway line added there and you would have it as a major terminal hub.
This guy is wearing a wild tie.He probably lost a bet.
Always thought the old City Hall Station should be turned into a restaurant or night club. Put up plexiglass and soundproofing at the edge of the platform and watch the trains go by
They already have it as a tourist spot
It is obviously a abandoned Trolly Terminal cuz NYC used to have a light rail like system but that was over a hundred years ago, so NYC Nowadays has only Heavy rail system known as the: *Subway*
This might be a good idea for the old street trolley terminal first put a floor to ceiling window up next to the active tracks so that people don't set foot out on them then restore the floor then put in a glass floor like in the grand canyon thing then build a miniature working version of the new york subway and surrounding rail lines also adding on past lines like the street trolley then with the dispatch booths they could put the control boards for the train tracks and stuff by doing this you can showcase the terminal and the entire mta train system for history and train buffs i say history buffs because you could run every car that has ever run in the system on the model system that way it keeps the history of the metro alive.
Imagine if they made this space into a skate park, I’d be skating there all day. 😂😂😂
Wow. Looks like this Essex Street terminal will be updated this place soon! : 0
Bus terminal. First, have the new Nostrand Avenue Bus Rapid Transit line end at this station. Second, make this the Lower East Side terminal for inter-city buses like Bolt, Mega, Hampton Jitney, etc. This way they're not idling on the street, and this station could supplement the overcrowded Port Authority terminal.
We have a shortage of bus station capacity in the city, and transfers between buses and subways are often difficult. This would add to the city's station capacity, while making transfers to 4 subway lines simple.
Let's not waste this terminal. If people want a park, let's build it in the sun above ground amongst those new developing properties.
make a mini museum lol
They're proposing to make this into an innovative underground park :P
What if it was used as an extra car yard?
I think that the space should be used to store the MTA's R127/R134 Fleet
They probably had to check for rats before filming that whole thing. Someone mentioned this video is now 7 yrs old. It's now Sept 2022 and that space is still there. It's a site for sore eyes. 😩 But there is indeed lots of potential there in the right creative hands.
underground restaurant or mall
@iron45451 They already have that, its called the 36th Street Yard. (Correct me if im wrong), but thats where the refuse trains go in Brooklyn. Plus they store them in the other IRT/BMT/IND Yards. I also highly doubt this would become a museum as well.
There’s also room for a fourth platform to make Essex St station an express station with the same layout as that of both Penn Stations and Atlantic Ave on the Eastern Pkwy Line. The “express” tracks which actually stop at both stations in-between, those being Bowery and Canal St, end at Chambers St. If Myrtle Ave’s upper level was restored and parallel to the current lower level, the Jamaica Line between Essex St and Myrtle Ave could become a 4-track line and the latter station can become a bi-level express station like Bergen St (minus the fact that the express platforms are abandoned there). This way, the brown M could return and this time, not interfere with the J at all. The V could also return to replace its replacement. The only issues I see are space on the Williamsburg Bridge and between the buildings. But I still think this is a smart way to eliminate bottlenecks despite their high cost.
Make it a yard for future subway lines
The best thing to do about this space is to leave this piece of history alone. If not, I wish for it to be converted into a gig venue/coffee shop/hangout spot but most preferably a music coffee shop with most of its decadent features, aesthetics and architecture still present.
Kevin Picou I need that be my mansion for the amount of stuff that I have immediately.
In my opinion, the worse thing the city did was abolish all the trolley service in favor of buses. It was short sighted. They should have kept some of them as Philadelphia and Boston did. But when there are powerful corporations looking to sell their products and politians who want to curry favor with them a lot goes to shit.
Who would want to set up shop in that empty space? Maybe it is just me, but I would go nuts, if I have to hear the subway trains screech (while it is turning) every day.
Can you do one on the Queensboro Bridge trolley terminal
Wait, the Queens Bridge has a trolley terminal too?
How bout the old queensboro irt tracks
Update: It’s still empty
fuck
Museum, maybe?
It's been forever when will it ever be complete
great video - glad to hear the mta is looking for new uses fo its unused real estate.
(2:35) those "vacant lots" that were mentioned is the area known as the seward park urban renewal area "spura". A living neighborhood, acquired in 1965 with actual demolition of buildings in 1967 (1,852 families were affected). some families were relocated to new housing built in spura. but the rest of the vacant lots remain empty as debate and fighting between developers, the city, and the community STILL continues on what to do with the damn area, 45 years of endless talk!!!
Good old liberal bureaucracy.
can someone please tell me when the hell the year "nineteen-three" was?
1903 which was the year the Williamsburg Bridge opened. Of which the terminal used to get people to and from Brooklyn from Manhattan
1:21???
This is how many times peter said “remarkable”
👇
Like beggar
What's the name of this song
Worse comes to worse, they could always restart the old trolley system back up. What ever is done with it, I hope its left open like that. It's cool being able to be next to the trains like that.
Gentrification of the Lower Eastside vs serving the needs of New Yorkers. Clear to see that the MTA has latched on the the former.
I uses Essex st daily never knew it was trolley
The guy giving the tour was a total bad-ass.
wow i love this
it's been 8 years
what are you doing with that space
that lot now apt/target movie theatre in back
I think they should install tracks lowering to the lower F train level and during the week M trains will run on these tracks and instead of stopping on the upper level they will stop on the lower level and begin stopping at 2nd Avenue and people on the upper level waiting for the train on the upper level can see how the M train will go lowering to the lower level and on weekends will be regular weekend M service (metropolitan Avenue to delancy Essex) terminate on the J Z train track.
It should be a yard for m trains that terminate here and store them there during late nights. ORRRRR...
It could be the terminal for the second ave subway T line and make trains terminate there instead of Hanover sq
NYCT Enthusiast I believe that the space should be used expansion of the station to remove the slow speeds coming into and out of the station. Having SAS trains terminate here would not relieve crowding on the Lexington Avenue IRT.
Ppe?
Retail space? i think it's bullshit. Wh not study ways of re-introducing trolley service? Oh wait, that's not cool anymore.
I don’t think people will be keen to hang out near an active subway line not to mention the constant noise there’s probably a whole city’s worth of rats and rodents that’s gonna make it’s way into whatever goes there.
dj booth
Bring back trolleys and make an station there.
occupy it !
This would make a DOPE night club.
Nick Lo They should use the space to expand Essex Street into 4 tracks.
Bring back the NYC Trolley Network & eliminate the Select Bus Service as it's being replaced by trolleys. We need more options for public transportation!
how about making new trolleys and make the a station for a trolley
E Train Productions Agree!☺👍
They should bring the trolley back
Is He trying to sell something?
A long shot, but I hope something happens with the space. Seems like any major construction project, much less one that requires cross business cooperation, takes a millennia.
With this economy and the cost to remodel, it would seem to be to cost prohibitive.
When the Dodgers moved to LA,they just got rid of their trolleys. Google LA Railway and Pacific Railway.
I went in there to explore just as I did with many other abandoned tunnels
cool
you could have that as a platform and a basement.
How about building office space there since the TA already owns it, rather than renting 2 Broadway for millions of dollars a month?
Always wondered about this space for years since I first rode the J & M, know I now.
Wow. Super interesting O_O;
What I would do with it is make it a platform for the M train and extend the M shuttle late night to it and let it terminate there.
SGT PEPAH! The middle track at Essex is just fine. J trains can just use the outer local track.
How about make it a grand subway opening
ITS GOING TO BE A UNDERGROUND PARK PEOEPLE
+Jaden Chen I know that
Fuck... I wanted it to be my new home......
lol, i was gussing.
TotalBoogeymenH2Oplus hahaha!!!😂😂😂😂
That is so stupid
Or add an extra platform for M trains and for J,Z trains
ive already knew about this for how long now
Bring back trams to NYC! How about that? Battery electric and ground based power has come along way baby!
Very cool.
I like how the MTA is proud of the fact that this monstrosity remained untouched for 65 fucking years and passengers were forced to look at and smell that ugly shit hole as part of their daily commute. And they're trying to make it look like something cool...
*turn it to something cool
the MTA was bankrupt did you see the MTA in the 1970 and 80 they did not even have enough money to maintain their subway cars. After the refurbishment in the late 90,s and the new order of cars in the 2000. Now they have enough money to finally do something with the space.
It should be used for trolleys!
0:06 "1903" what
Put a Starbuck's there.
maybe pick some music that's a tad more uplifting. some serious debbie downer tunes playing on this vid.
How about you make that place into a horror moive set.
DJ is going to be loud
Why not just bring back the trolleys 🤔
They can make good shuttle S Train to bronx
its near brooklyn
You should put your trolly should be back
Zoe Wood Why?
@KawasakiPlant LOL
build another subway line
Where would it go,
Apple store.
I just give it to NYPD as office space.
I would prefer to hear the guy instead of that stupid music
I want turn to a underground parking lot
Nightclub :)
hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha! YEAH right!.....it's still nothing there to this day maybe Donald J Trump should invest this poor development after all he's also a real estate giant....Yeah right hahaha hahaha! build more homes for native New Yorkers MAN!
I don't think he shares the far-left city council's vision of building ever more apartments for illegals and Section 8 deadbeats.