My heart goes out to Mr Baker. All his questions are being answered and he just gets emotionally charged. Shame on the Mormons that ruined his thinking
I really like that Dr. White changed from debating to teaching towards the end of the debate. He is really trying to help Lee see that his reason for not believing the New Testament is invalid and show him the truth. I pray that God will change Lee’s heart and reveal the truth to him.
I was taught about textual variants. Many pastors do teach about this, and there is a lot about it on UA-cam. It was never a secret. Lee Baker acts overly suspicious.
Genesis 1:26 “And God said, Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness: Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.” Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” Jesus was crucified for the TRUTH about himself! John 5:39 “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of ME.”
Out of a guilty feeling for handing out the KJV to Africans, then finding it was a flawed/incomplete translation, Lee abandons the faith. This is the opposite of the reaction of KJV onlyists. Lee said he wants to learn but when James asks if he has read a book of his (was it "The Forgotten Trinity" or "Scripture alone"?) he says "thankfully not". This suggests a level of insincerity on Lee's part.
I hope Dr. Brown is able to soon have a discussion with Lee. He may be able to help him through a lot of the issues dealing with Judaism vs Christianity
Thanks for having this Aaron! I was going to ask if I didn't see it. I always enjoy Dr. White's debates, dialogues and teaching. May God bless you in your continued ministry 🙏
This is a problem that I have experienced with my friends coming out of Mormonism. They don't know what to believe. Mr. Baker does not seem to believe in God's sovereignty. I'm hearing Mr.Baker saying it's all false based on his knowledge that Mormonism is false. He seems to still be using Lds truth test. Mr.Baker also does not fully grasp the triune God. God Being and personage.
AT THE END OF THE DEBATE COMES THE whole of the matter for Mr. Baker. he rejects the resurrection, He rejects the testimony of the new testament. So he is left without Christ.
Baker's emotional response and disregard for the debate rules stem from the fact that his arguments are fundamentally flawed, and as he faces scrutiny, he struggles to defend his position effectively. Furthermore, Baker's tendency to deflect and shift the focus of the argument away from direct questions highlights his evasion tactics rather than addressing the issues at hand. I run into this all them time when dealing with anti Calvinist’s.
This guy I do feel for too and he did apologise for the emotion, but I have to say that was one of the most painful debates I’ve ever seen. Amazed James White agreed to this but hopefully was trying to help him
Hey I use to have these struggles like Lee, the Lord was good to me. I started getting into church history and the book of Malachi captivated me. In Malachi, the LORD says his name will be great among the nations, but it is obvious that the jews only cared to take the TeNak within the borders of Israel... therefore under the new covenant, the transmission of the New Testament makes sense
Lee Baker seem to have a very very difficult time differentiating "constrolled transmission" that the Mormon cult does with their scriptures & the "free transmission"(from the originals which we no longer possess) in Biblical Christianity have done throughout the centuries. I will pray for Mr. Baker that he may do his homework and research. The poor fella sounded quite confused.
“I am ignorant in textual changes, variations, to the Bible... I am very suspicious of the stretch factor,” Indeed, a man who is ignorant of the nature of the variations or textual changes ought not presume a lack of integrity, on account of any apparent meddling made known by secondary sources. We are to judge with righteous judgment. A man who considers himself suspicious as a matter of virtue calls evil good.
Can't believe that Mr Baker didn't prepare better. If he had just watched Dr White some, he would have saw how thoroughly Dr White prepares. Amazing. He still would have lost, he just would not have looked so foolish doing so.
If the Holy Spirit had opened his eyes and heart to the truth of the scripture he would not be at this point.He was never a true, born again Christian.
The sad thing is that this damages Lee Baker's credibility so much. If there were any mormons looking to take his lead out of the LDS, this really exposes him as an impulsive, ham handed, non critical thinker. I wouldnt trust anything this guy had to say on pretty much any subject. You can clearly see he has not dropped the mormon mindset.
Aaron is there a circuit of or individual upcoming debates similar to this in the near future? I enjoy learning from them and I’m curious to know if there are people still doing this. Seems that there aren’t as many in UA-cam that are recent.
On April 1, 2023, at 7pm there will be a debate, "Is God Necessary for Ethics?", with James White and Jeff Durbin representing the Christians. I think they may have another upcoming one concerning infant baptism.
Gotta give Baker credit for being able to bluster well enough and engage the audience well enough to seem convincing. He puts on a good presentation. He should be in sales.
James white is difficult to debate and definitely wouldn't want to bring anything close to full knowledge to the table because he will expose you. I love listening yo his debates as I grow in my walk with the Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
Back before all the masks and lockdowns! I wouldn't have believed it if someone told me how alien our community's would feel one year later, this remains an important topic and more relevant than ever, justice belongs to the lord and when the books are opened our jaws will hit the floor, I'm still praying for the baker's, I have similar indoctrination that I have to work through.
“For God so loved the World that He gave His only Son...” This is essentially an updated rewrite of a conglomerate of passages from the Old Testament, including those making known God seeing the creation as good, as His creation was an act of love, unto to the promise given to Adam and his posterity after the fall. God by John, is giving us an example of rightly dividing the Word of Truth in accordance with the Truth. The (once) Mormon seeks to turn the Old against the New Testament, by trying to lie against the truth convincingly, and with apparent concern for us.
Wow, Lee is criticizing how God revealed Himself @ min 105:49. Lee knows how to do it better? "Scoot over Lord, now there are two of us". Geez. James did an awesome job, I learned a lot. Thanks for posting this.
Does anyone know if James White ever discussed at length or reviewed this debate in any capacity? On the alpha and omega ministries UA-cam channel there is listed a “Lee Baker debate review” but the video is incorrectly labeled and features no such review. I only ask because I’d love to hear James White’s review of this debate as I feel this is probably the most painfully frustrating debate he’s engaged in
Baker's arrogance and pride is astounding. He has proven here that he holds no education on the topics he so audaciously pretends to defend and no humility in learning.
Baker saying thankfully no, to if he has read any of Dr whites books was so saddening to me, this man is a blessing to all believers of the Christian faith, he has devoted his life and learning to his faith and is so intelligent and willing to share that and also speak on the highest levels against what he does not believe to be truth which is astonishing. I would be thrilled to open his books. I see Mr baker has set his mind. It reminds me of pharaoh’s hardened heart :(
The death of the Passover lamb indicates the necessity of the death of the Messiah. I'm reading through the Bible again. The Old Testament tells us about our Savior many, many times! Not directly, but in the lives of those who came before Him.
We know Mr. Lee Baker and his wife, Kathy, relatively well. We supported their Christian ministry by funding their radio program, their ministry travel around the US, to Israel, and to Africa. Sadly, Mr. Lee has turned against Jesus Christ and the Christian faith. Listening to the start of this debate, Mr. Lee is truly lost and rambling, he has left Christian reality. Lee is now studying to become a Noahide; a Jewish religious movement based on the Seven Laws of Noah (pre-Old Testament) and the traditional interpretations within Orthodox Judaism. Lee’s turbulent personal family history, his incarceration and criminal trial experience In Indiana, and the loss of his Christian faith has totally destroyed his mental processes. Lee, Jesus Christ did not leave you, your narcissism forced you to leave Jesus Christ. Lee, you have lost yourself, stop destroying what is left of your soul.
I can't figure out what Lee Baker stands for or what he is arguing. Seems like he's angry with God. Baker has no foundation, and he just rants about things that he doesn't like without substanial evidence.
WOW! James White absolutely demolished every single objection this guy brought up. Regardless of where you stand on the reliability of the NT texts, you have to admit James White dominated this debate, and Baker lost, and I mean brutally, like Drako boxing Apollo Creed, brutal.
Baker: Jerome protected the Septuagint White: (wincing) Jerome had nothing to do with protecting a document that existed 600 years before him. Baker: (appearing to re-group as if he hadn't stepped in T-Rex poo) So you mean that the Septuagint was written in 250 B.C. in Alexandria Egypt White: (trying not to scream) The Apostles had full access to the Septuagint and they lived 4 centuries before Jerome. Baker: (Oblivious to his insanity) I know that Moderator's Thoughts (judging by his expression): This is amazing--there are two people, but only one brain functioning between them.
My heart goes out to Mr Baker. All his questions are being answered and he just gets emotionally charged. Shame on the Mormons that ruined his thinking
I really like that Dr. White changed from debating to teaching towards the end of the debate. He is really trying to help Lee see that his reason for not believing the New Testament is invalid and show him the truth. I pray that God will change Lee’s heart and reveal the truth to him.
James White is the last person I would ever want to debate 🔥. Must say Baker was thoroughly exposed.
This debate is a wonderful lesson to not disregard or oppose something simply because you do not understand it.
Thanks for your support!
Thanks for your channel , Aaron - its been a great help to me over the years.
You bet!
Aaron what camera and lens are you using now?
Aaron Shafovaloff only recently found your channel and I’m loving all the content. Thanks for uploading.
Aaron....what debate will You be posting in November.....Kwaku El/Jeremy Howard?....or is there another that I should be looking forward to,as well?
So the promise that Mr Baker made to his wife about listening twice as hard as he debates went straight out the window!! 🤦♂️
Sometimes it’s better to listen and learn instead of speaking and making yourself look like a fool. Dr White has patience of a saint.
Baker: Do you believe John wrote that?
Dr. White: No
Baker: I used to
Dr. White: I'm sorry
Wow... I had no idea that Lee Baker had drifted like this. This is painful. Thank you for sharing this though.
I was taught about textual variants. Many pastors do teach about this, and there is a lot about it on UA-cam. It was never a secret. Lee Baker acts overly suspicious.
This guy just had no idea what he’s talking about.. I give James White props for his patience
Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness:
Isaiah 9:6
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 43:11
“I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”
Revelation 1:8
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
Jesus was crucified for the TRUTH about himself!
John 5:39
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of ME.”
I wonder if what Mr. Baker is by now? an atheist? an agnostic? a skeptics? a Buddhist? a Muslim? update please.
Sadly Lee Baker, who was instrumental in bringing many out of Mormonism, has taken his skepticism to a ridiculous degree. This was difficult to watch.
If you notice any audio abnormalities, please let me know. I had to re-render and re-upload an earlier debate video.
This gentleman Lee needs help. He is plainly intellectually dishonest with himself.
the mormon stigma is still in Baker's head.
Dr. James you are an amazing soldier for Christ. I strive to one day have the knowledge you do. God Bless 🎚🙏
My level of respect for James White just went through the roof. What Godly patience that man has
He plays dumb and smart at the same time, lord have mercy.
Out of a guilty feeling for handing out the KJV to Africans, then finding it was a flawed/incomplete translation, Lee abandons the faith.
This is the opposite of the reaction of KJV onlyists.
Lee said he wants to learn but when James asks if he has read a book of his (was it "The Forgotten Trinity" or "Scripture alone"?) he says "thankfully not". This suggests a level of insincerity on Lee's part.
James White thank you very much
Excellent defense of the faith
I hope Dr. Brown is able to soon have a discussion with Lee. He may be able to help him through a lot of the issues dealing with Judaism vs Christianity
Thanks for having this Aaron! I was going to ask if I didn't see it. I always enjoy Dr. White's debates, dialogues and teaching. May God bless you in your continued ministry 🙏
This poor deceived man. He judges God and doesn't even know that he does.
This really shows the damage that mormonism causes.
I'm only 15 mins in and this is going to be good. Much better then the Jeff and dr white atheist debate.that was cringe city.
This is a problem that I have experienced with my friends coming out of Mormonism. They don't know what to believe. Mr. Baker does not seem to believe in God's sovereignty. I'm hearing Mr.Baker saying it's all false based on his knowledge that Mormonism is false. He seems to still be using Lds truth test. Mr.Baker also does not fully grasp the triune God. God Being and personage.
AT THE END OF THE DEBATE COMES THE whole of the matter for Mr. Baker. he rejects the resurrection, He rejects the testimony of the new testament. So he is left without Christ.
May Jesus one day save this man's soul
I have no knowledge of greek or hebrew but a blind man could see that Isaiah chapter 53 seals it for me
Baker's emotional response and disregard for the debate rules stem from the fact that his arguments are fundamentally flawed, and as he faces scrutiny, he struggles to defend his position effectively. Furthermore, Baker's tendency to deflect and shift the focus of the argument away from direct questions highlights his evasion tactics rather than addressing the issues at hand. I run into this all them time when dealing with anti Calvinist’s.
Lee Strobel's Book; Case for Christ is a good resource that addresses this topic.
Amazing debate!! I’m loving this wave of debates.
This guy I do feel for too and he did apologise for the emotion, but I have to say that was one of the most painful debates I’ve ever seen. Amazed James White agreed to this but hopefully was trying to help him
Dr.white is a walking encyclopedia-... this is very enlightening!
Hey I use to have these struggles like Lee, the Lord was good to me. I started getting into church history and the book of Malachi captivated me. In Malachi, the LORD says his name will be great among the nations, but it is obvious that the jews only cared to take the TeNak within the borders of Israel... therefore under the new covenant, the transmission of the New Testament makes sense
Lee Baker seem to have a very very difficult time differentiating "constrolled transmission" that the Mormon cult does with their scriptures & the "free transmission"(from the originals which we no longer possess) in Biblical Christianity have done throughout the centuries. I will pray for Mr. Baker that he may do his homework and research. The poor fella sounded quite confused.
in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
Thanks for the upload, Aaron! I’ve really been looking forward to this one.
“I am ignorant in textual changes, variations, to the Bible... I am very suspicious of the stretch factor,”
Indeed, a man who is ignorant of the nature of the variations or textual changes ought not presume a lack of integrity, on account of any apparent meddling made known by secondary sources. We are to judge with righteous judgment.
A man who considers himself suspicious as a matter of virtue calls evil good.
been waiting for this! Thanks to all for making this happen.
This was a pretty intense debate...
I don’t even understand what this guy is arguing. Poor man. James clearly explained everything. He should have just given up.
When you reject God, you get a debased mind. We see this demonstrated here.
Can't believe that Mr Baker didn't prepare better. If he had just watched Dr White some, he would have saw how thoroughly Dr White prepares. Amazing. He still would have lost, he just would not have looked so foolish doing so.
The man was never a believer from the start
You have to feel for Mr. Baker, he was so unprepared and refused to humble himself when confronted so clearly
It seems that Mr Baker needs God's Holy Spirit indwelling him to see clearly..Lord please help him..
If the Holy Spirit had opened his eyes and heart to the truth of the scripture he would not be at this point.He was never a true, born again Christian.
What was the name of the Greek book that he has I would love to have one.
Dr. White’s patience is astounding
Lee Baker went from Mormonism to Christianity, and then he is now Jewish?
This guy is lost!
Thank you DR White--I am Roman Catholic and value your work here[[
The sad thing is that this damages Lee Baker's credibility so much. If there were any mormons looking to take his lead out of the LDS, this really exposes him as an impulsive, ham handed, non critical thinker. I wouldnt trust anything this guy had to say on pretty much any subject. You can clearly see he has not dropped the mormon mindset.
Debating a man like James White you need to come prepared ,and this guy wasn`t
Aaron is there a circuit of or individual upcoming debates similar to this in the near future? I enjoy learning from them and I’m curious to know if there are people still doing this. Seems that there aren’t as many in UA-cam that are recent.
On April 1, 2023, at 7pm there will be a debate, "Is God Necessary for Ethics?", with James White and Jeff Durbin representing the Christians.
I think they may have another upcoming one concerning infant baptism.
Anyone know the name of the blue bible James white has during this discussion? I know he mentions it somewhere in the video, but I’ve seem to lost it.
Gotta give Baker credit for being able to bluster well enough and engage the audience well enough to seem convincing. He puts on a good presentation. He should be in sales.
James white is difficult to debate and definitely wouldn't want to bring anything close to full knowledge to the table because he will expose you. I love listening yo his debates as I grow in my walk with the Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
It's very frustrating when a person doesn't know how to ask questions. Two minutes to ask a question?
That was a statement.He also is very uninformed!
We need to be praying that God’s word is spread and that truth takes hold and grows in hearts
Lee Baker is unqualified to debate Dr. White.
Back before all the masks and lockdowns!
I wouldn't have believed it if someone told me how alien our community's would feel one year later, this remains an important topic and more relevant than ever, justice belongs to the lord and when the books are opened our jaws will hit the floor, I'm still praying for the baker's, I have similar indoctrination that I have to work through.
Does anyone have a link to the book James white held up at the beginning?
“For God so loved the World that He gave His only Son...”
This is essentially an updated rewrite of a conglomerate of passages from the Old Testament, including those making known God seeing the creation as good, as His creation was an act of love, unto to the promise given to Adam and his posterity after the fall.
God by John, is giving us an example of rightly dividing the Word of Truth in accordance with the Truth. The (once) Mormon seeks to turn the Old against the New Testament, by trying to lie against the truth convincingly, and with apparent concern for us.
Wow, Lee is criticizing how God revealed Himself @ min 105:49. Lee knows how to do it better? "Scoot over Lord, now there are two of us". Geez. James did an awesome job, I learned a lot. Thanks for posting this.
Also, i really enjoyed the allowance of back and forth. That was really enlightening.
James is so patient! I wanted to fly out of the chair watching this. Be still mr Baker and know he is God.
Thank you so much brother Aaron, for posting this debate!
In Christ,
brother travis
So Lee Baker is not Christian anymore??? 😳
What is the bible translation with footnotes that White is recommending here?
Thank you Dr. White.
Like a dog returning to his vomit, Lee Baker forsook Christ to embrace Christ-rejecting Judaism.
Thank you for sharing this debate. I was hoping someone had a decent copy of it.
Would love to see Lee Baker debate Dr Brown.
God is good!
AMEN, Dr. White.
Does anyone know if James White ever discussed at length or reviewed this debate in any capacity? On the alpha and omega ministries UA-cam channel there is listed a “Lee Baker debate review” but the video is incorrectly labeled and features no such review. I only ask because I’d love to hear James White’s review of this debate as I feel this is probably the most painfully frustrating debate he’s engaged in
Baker knew just enough to be dangerous to himself and others. He ended up being just another debate victim of James “The Professor” White.....
Baker's arrogance and pride is astounding. He has proven here that he holds no education on the topics he so audaciously pretends to defend and no humility in learning.
Some of Baker's statements reflect his ignorance, but others seem disingenuous. What is the spirit involved there?
This shows that you can be LDS or Christian for 25+ years and fake your prayers and answers to prayers from Christ the whole time
Baker saying thankfully no, to if he has read any of Dr whites books was so saddening to me, this man is a blessing to all believers of the Christian faith, he has devoted his life and learning to his faith and is so intelligent and willing to share that and also speak on the highest levels against what he does not believe to be truth which is astonishing. I would be thrilled to open his books. I see Mr baker has set his mind. It reminds me of pharaoh’s hardened heart :(
The death of the Passover lamb indicates the necessity of the death of the Messiah. I'm reading through the Bible again. The Old Testament tells us about our Savior many, many times! Not directly, but in the lives of those who came before Him.
We know Mr. Lee Baker and his wife, Kathy, relatively well. We supported their Christian ministry by funding their radio program, their ministry travel around the US, to Israel, and to Africa. Sadly, Mr. Lee has turned against Jesus Christ and the Christian faith. Listening to the start of this debate, Mr. Lee is truly lost and rambling, he has left Christian reality. Lee is now studying to become a Noahide; a Jewish religious movement based on the Seven Laws of Noah (pre-Old Testament) and the traditional interpretations within Orthodox Judaism. Lee’s turbulent personal family history, his incarceration and criminal trial experience In Indiana, and the loss of his Christian faith has totally destroyed his mental processes. Lee, Jesus Christ did not leave you, your narcissism forced you to leave Jesus Christ. Lee, you have lost yourself, stop destroying what is left of your soul.
I was there!
Dr.white was very kind for accepting this debate. At one point I questioned the sanity of Lee Baker. It was almost painful to watch. Praying for Lee.
I can't figure out what Lee Baker stands for or what he is arguing. Seems like he's angry with God. Baker has no foundation, and he just rants about things that he doesn't like without substanial evidence.
Why are there some gaps in the video?
Wow. I just feel sad for Mr Baker.
Poor Mr. Baker. He didn't just bring a knife to a gunfight, his knife was dull.
WOW! James White absolutely demolished every single objection this guy brought up. Regardless of where you stand on the reliability of the NT texts, you have to admit James White dominated this debate, and Baker lost, and I mean brutally, like Drako boxing Apollo Creed, brutal.
Baker: Jerome protected the Septuagint
White: (wincing) Jerome had nothing to do with protecting a document that existed 600 years before him.
Baker: (appearing to re-group as if he hadn't stepped in T-Rex poo) So you mean that the Septuagint was written in 250 B.C. in Alexandria Egypt
White: (trying not to scream) The Apostles had full access to the Septuagint and they lived 4 centuries before Jerome.
Baker: (Oblivious to his insanity) I know that
Moderator's Thoughts (judging by his expression): This is amazing--there are two people, but only one brain functioning between them.
Mr. Baker reminds of the double minded man -- unstable in all his ways.
Jesus himself referenced and quoted Isaiah 53. Luke 22:37
There are no neutral parties.
Baker is an obfuscator and it's not ill will to point out this clear reality.
Wallace's facial expressions say it all
Felt a bit sorry for poor Mr. Baker
Lee Baker has way more wit than knowledge.