Just a thought - you're trying to get the oxygen content to less than 4% but you're actually measuring the purity of the hydrogen. The 4% or so of impurities could be any other gas including nitrogen, carbon, etc, with oxygen being a very low percentage, but you'll never know because you aren't measuring specifically for it. Great series though, would be great to let you do all of the dangerous learning stage and the rest of us can follow your lead :D
Here's a generalized question from a welder why didn't you use argon to purge your tanks that would make sense to me specially if you want to get rid of oxygen or any other gases because it is an inert gas that's argon.
Turn it upside down and pull a vacuum. Hydrogen is the lightest element so it will float while the impurities will sink so it will be easier to purge. I’ve never tried that but in theory it should work. If you do try it please let me know what your results were. Thank you
Nice video and thanks for sharing. Hey you're over 96% pure so you're safe and that's excellent! Should have no problem running it like a propane stove if you're using 100% hydrogen. Keep up the good work I love that you keep pressing forward and keep coming up with better and better things!
I suppose one way to clean the tank and make it safe maybe to spray in some flammable gas like Propane then vacuum it out again, this would make sure the tiny impurity left over would be a small amount of Propane, which would be of no harm to the fuel properties of the Hydrogen..
A couple of questions: How do you know you had pulled out all of the air from your 100gal tank? Second question; do you put sulfur or other scent to let you know you have a hydrogen leak?
Hie. i love the passion. To get air and oxygen out, fill the tank with hydrogen. Turn it up side down and vent the gas out through your vacuum pump. Hydrogen is very light and will displace the oxygen to the bottom of the tank. If you vacuum it upside down, the other gases come out first before the Hydrogen and the residue will still be hydrogen.
That may work (in principle) for a substance where both it's liquid and gaseous phases are present in a saturated state but no way with fully mixed gases. Your idea requires breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Hi there Steve my name is Richard from Jamaica and I must say that I am impressed with your videos.my question is where can I purchase one of those compressor as well as the hydrogen analyzer and what's the cost.Thanks.regards
Hello there Steve. Recommendations be very careful compressing your gas if there's any oxygen present. Remember the individual in California that exploded a large warehouse storing the gas and had oxygen present. My suggestion is talk to an expert how to extract all the oxygen out of the tanks you are using. Follow an expert that has the expertise in this field even if you have to pay for him to come over to your location to instruct you hands-on. We both know HHO Gas is highly explosive because of the oxygen in the gas. If you have any oxygen in your storage container when you are introducing pure hydrogen is duplicating hho gas because the oxygen is present in the existing container.
Great point. I have started doing my own AC repairs on my vehicles (UA-cam expert LOL) and I always purge the lines first. That little bit of air in the hoses all adds up. Not sure how much I learned about AC can be applied here. But I think similar concepts.
Would 1 litter a minute run a 1.5 hp engine powering a generator? I'm trying to build this but using a 12 volt battery is too much amps and kills the battery too quickly. What unit for power supply are you using?
Would it be stupid to set a tank upside down with a pressure relief valve, pump into it and leave it long enough for the gasses to stratify under light pressure and vent the heavier gasses out before pumping the hydrogen into a storage tank?
It's still my goal to do to the design I shared with you a year-and-a-half two years ago or so. Once I get it done and have the solar system setup for it I still allowed to bring it by. Still don't know when it's going to happen but it is my goal so hopefully it happens sooner than later.
What about seepage through the walls of the tank, is it dangerous, you need an expensive triple lined tank, l hope I'm wrong, because l want do what your doing,
My guess is that your bubbler is adding moisture to your gas mix. Wasn't sure if your bubbler was before your dryers or after. Would expect the bubbler to be before the dryers. appreciate sharing your marvelous work. Cheers
@@floridacoder As long as you don't try to light the hho for a torch you should not need a bubbler. If you are burning the gas you must have a bubbler or the flame will blow up your water tank. My sand bubbler is preferable over water.
You have a great system there, Have you considered using concentrated sulphuric acid as a preliminary desiccant in the bubbler followed by an Iron based Oxygen scrubber
Apparently hydrogen goes right into the metal of that 100 gallon propane tank. The atoms go into the microstructure of the container creating embrittlement. So after a number of years or even right away the computer said, the container may be compromised under pressure and burst.. It's called the diffusion of hydrogen embrittelment. There are some great reports from the type iv 700 bar composite fiber overlapping pressure tanks. And some low pressure ones like you are working on level i and level ii of the same material. They say the embrittlement gets more effective at higher pressure. Yours is pretty low temp. I'm not saying your tank will burst now but the computer describes the process.
It's possible but the sea water will corrode any metal parts in the system and coat any of the plastics in the system with salt. You also have to be careful about the additional chemicals and stuff in the water so pretreatment is a must. After that it should be fairly easy. Honestly best bet is probably a 2 step process of distillation then re-add an electrolyte and produce hydrogen. You do not want any salt left in the water whatsoever or you will create chlorine gas. You know, the stuff used back in WW1
Use a teaspoon of baking soda for each quart. Apparently you don't have to add more when you add water because the sodium stays in the water. But others say it tapers off after awhile. Try stainless Steel electrodes
Hello Steve I'm very new at what you seem to know well. So I would like to ask you a question on a power system I'm trying to develop. I live in Texas and I'm going to put up solar panel on my roof with the intentions of either using PEM cells or maybe radio frequency to split water. But instead of trying to store hydrogen I'm going to use a Satatier reactor to turn the hydrogen into natural gas. I will capture the co2 from a 10kw tri fuel generator I bought to use the Co2 and hydrogen into a reactor. I have converted all my appliances into using natural gas. I only have calculations that say a system like this will work to provide electric power, heat, and fuel my car. Can you please tell me due to your practical knowledge and experience, will this system I'm building work? Thank you, Brian...love your videos..thanks
you really should put a vacuum gauge on the inlet of the compressor... so you know just how "empty" it really "isn't". It would take no less than a couple hours to pull a real vacuum down on a tank that size (with that small pump). If you are trying to use compression as a gauge, then you are asking the compressor to do double-duty... and they don't do that well. You need to leave the output open so that the compressor can actually create a vacuum.Are you sure your desiccant moisture removal system can really handle that high of a gas flow rate? The bubbler adds a horrible amount of moisture, I'm concerned you are putting moisture into that tank. The bead size in your desiccant filters is very large, making large gaps between them... and the dwell time of the gas doesn't seem long enough to allow for absorption. If you had a way to test the pressure drop across each one, then you would have an idea how effective they are... there has to be back-pressure / flow resistance in order to let the desiccant function.
Seems to me the hydrogen would separate and stay at the top of the tank. You should invert the tank putting the valve at the bottom so you could draw all of the heavier gasses off the bottom.
not using a oxygen scrubber ? also read that steel tanks are not best for hydrogen since can make the tanks brittle but unsure. others where using nickel metal hydrides to store the gas in much greater density but much trickier ! like your setup.
Joe Pearce I could use a purifier but not needed yet with this setup. Just looking to get pure enough gas to compress. Yes steel can become brittle over many years.
So, 1st you pull all the oxygen out of tank, then fill the tank with hydrogen, then pull everything out of the tank, then fill the tank up to about 10 psi, then testwhen you fill the 100lb tank with hydrogen at about 10 lbs, and then..test the quality. If greater than 96%, you say fill /pressure the tank 5o 25 lbs. How? If filling at 1-2 Lpm, how can we compress a 100lb thank to 125psi in a smaller tank?
Are you worried about hydrogen embrittlement? Your steel tank might be susceptible to this. Don't they use aluminum tanks that are carbon fiber/ fiberglass resin reinforced because the natural oxide layer that forms on aluminum is impervious to hydrogen?
May have been an idea to fill the tank with an oil. Run a pipe down the centre to the bottom then pressurise with Hydrogen. (Pipe in pips Hydrogen on the outer) The gas pressure then forces the oil out purging the tank of all. Should have a pic somewhere of a valve I made a while back if only for the purpose of pressurising oil in tank for a waste oil burner. But aye turn it upside down as others have suggested.
Iam not very smart but if you turn your propane tank upside-down and fill it with hydrogen wouldn't it force all the air out of the tank if you leave it open or purge the tank with co2 gas or run the exhaust gas out of a gas engine in the tank to purge the tank
What's the likelihood of an explosion when the low oxygen concentrated gas is under PRESSURE? I realize that 120 psi's not that high, but it'd sure be nice to know.
Not much if outdoors. The issue is ventilation. Hydrogen is the lightest element and rises so fast - it is lighter then air. Even a fan would be helpful. But ventilation is key even in cars.
@@Hydrogen4Health Not trying to be a smart a__ but some things just seem to jump at me. Like the compressor. I am glad you told me it was oil free and not a bomb!
I like this, good job! what membrane are you using? Nafion 117, or something else? Have you considered the refrigerator compressor? they give up to 25 bar, stable.
If hydrogen is lighter than air, why not fill the tank with hydrogen, flip the tank, give it time to settle and open the tank valve to release the denser air at the bottom?
That odorant added to propane and methane that gives them smell is potent stuff. Methyl mercaptan is common. A little goes a loooong way and once a tank has ever held something that contains it, it takes f.o.r.e.v.e.r. to get rid of it.
How well does the pump act as a vacuum pump? As others have said you shouldn't assume all of that 5% is pure oxygen. But perhaps using an a pump designed to work in reverse would make a slight difference. That being said I'm not sure if there is a difference in design with a vacuum pump and gas pump in terms of direction. And now I'm wondering if I could use my vacuum pump as a gas pump LOL. I don't have a visible input port, but maybe if I remove the casing there is one. And if that's a major safety risk. How are pumps designed for volatile gasses different? Or are they essentially the same?
The fish tank pump supplements the poorly produced oxygen which you must have to burn hydrogen in the sand heater. The top of our sand heater is sealed up with only a 1/16 inch vent hole on top. It is used to light the gas and vent steam. A small fish tank pump has helped keep sand on fire 🔥 from time to time. Sand is filled right to top of heater top cover.
OK... last thought... re: Compressibility of Hydrogen.The most simple of gasses... you really can't expect much volumetric compression of hydrogen... unless you refrigerate it to a liquid (cryogenic). h2tools.org/hyarc/data/hydrogen-propertiesPropane has a relatively high boiling point of -44°F, a high critical temperature (+206°F), and liquefies at low pressures. Under a pressure of only 128psi it will stay liquid at 80°F. Propane in its liquid state is compressed volumetrically 270:1... so 1 liter of liquid propane creates 270 liters of gas at atmospheric pressure. Propane Liquid Density @ 70°F = 31.12 lb/ft3Propane Gas Density @ 70°F 1 atm = 0.116 lb/ft3Hydrogen boiling point is -423°F and by pressure alone, liquefaction can't be achieved. Modern composite tanks can hold up to 800 bar(!!!) can achieve almost 50% volumetric efficiency as cryogenic liquid hydrogen.
the smell is not propane its odorant, mercaptan. I wonder how much vacuum that is actually producing, though some is definitely better than none! One other thought I had, knowing jack about chemistry, is can running the hydrogen through water in the bubbler, can that act separate some of the O2 and H as its bubbled through? Very interesting, thanks for the video!
One more question... Do those water filter housings have opposite-end flow direction? In other words, does the gas enter at the bottom, and exit at the top? Seems like the only way to get maximum gas exposure to the desiccant crystals. Also it seems the gas inlet should be at the lowest part of the media tank, and "dry as you flow up", since the moisture-laden gas will be heavier, and should enter at the bottom of the desiccant media chamber. That will keep the dry crystals at the top of the chamber, preventing the moisture soaked crystals at the bottom from contaminating the dry crystals.Real lab grade gas dryers are always spec'd with flow rate - this one is 200 liters/hour and uses #8 mesh media (
You really know what your talking about. My filters are not that good. I went to the link and that's the type of dryer I should be using. I think i'll make a pair of them. Thank you for your help!
um..... i mean how about just getting an "upside-down" tank? let some hydrogen in, wait a minute, open the valve :V the oxygen is heavier then hydrogen and will be at the bottom, easy to get it out that way
@@solexxx8588 I do indeed know the science. Sure, you never get a full seperation unless your force it but the main seperation could indeed work in a closed system. gasses do follow the rule of density to a degree, in the usual air its not happening because of wind and all kinds of stuff that mixes them continously, but in a closed tank where basically is nothing present....it could work to a degree, especially since the mass difference is big enough between hydrogen and oxygen. Yes, even thermodynamics says this should be possible if there is no additional energy added to the system (for exmaple you do as i say and then just wait abit) Hydrogen will be almost pure in the top, then comes a gas mix phase, and udner that should be a rather pure oxygen phase, and if you do it right you could purge it by simply starting the draining of the tank by opening a bottom valve and just being slow with it
Seems you could measure the purity right off of the cell to get a base of purity and if its less than 96% I dont see hiw you will get it lower, the large tank if turned upside down and purged with hydrogen would work better,
The propane and the oxygen is at the bottom of the tank because it is heavier than hydrogen... and your inlet to the tank is at the top. If you want to purge out the heavier gas from the tank you have to flip the tank upside down wait a bit and open the valve so the hydrogen pushes the heavier gas out the valve at the bottom.. I had to do this when filling balloons. www.qrp-labs.com/flights/s3.html.. Dave
Steve,Great job on your cell design given those high numbers of hydrogen content. I am wondering if filling the bottle at a slower rate or adjusting the water level in the bubblers or reservoir to the cell preventing less oxygen bleed through to the membranes in the cell? Let me know thx. "D"
The hydrotube produces 99+% pure H2. It doesn't matter what happens in the tanks. I can get 99.98 with a purifier. Just trying to keep this as simple as possible.
Hey. I watch your videos because we have the same interests. I also made projects like this Hydrogen dry cell separator, to store the produced hydrogen in propane bottles, and to replace the home use of propane for hydrogen. Only instead of this expensive hydrogen purity analyzer, I have otherwise tested the purity of the hydrogen I produce from my cell electrolyser. The separator electrolyzer I personally made, and it is almost identical to you, is only slightly different in shape and dimension ... We could exchange ideas, and practical knowledge about this technology, if it does not present you a problem. Hello I'm Johnny
I am writing blue prints of a 1500 mile hydrogen tanks Uses four 7 cubic feet carbine fiber tanks. My issue is the loading of electrolyte (which is best) and how to compress into car tanks? Why do people say that a garden hose can be used to pressure the hydrogen from the electrosis into tanks?
Hey Steve... great job. Have you considered cooling the hydrogen to a liquid in order to get more volume in the tank? I have seen people use computer cpu water cooler blocks and Peltier devices to construct a on demand Coca-Cola cool drink dispenser.... It's basically what I was thinking of trying, otherwise I would either need to re purpose a freezer or purchase bottles of liquid nitrogen which could potentially become expensive over time.... the Peltier cooling system is a once purchase option that could potentially run of a solar system.... It's just a matter of how many cpu water cooler blocks to use so that you can get the hydrogen gas to condense into a liquid.... Anyway! loving the videos, wishing you success with it... You have yourself another subscription... Can't believe UA-cam didn't suggest your videos to me before? I have searched long and hard on this particular topic and only now it shows up as a recommendation while I was looking for other stuff LoL...
The concern I have is where you are venting the waste hydrogen mix into your workshop. That’s a high risk as any spark is catastrophic. Even when you are testing the quality of the hydrogen, you are venting near pure gas into your workshop, instead of purging it to an exhaust above the roofline. Great ideas but so dangerous.
hello Steve, greetings from Brazil. I´m going to get one of your hydrotube and would like to know if you are able to supply me a hydrogen analyzer like your HYME-S ... isn´t an easy or cheap item to find. could not find many alternatives too. thanx
I would have purged the system of oxygen and ran an inert gas like nitrogen through it. That way you won't need the desiccant driers because you have oxygen in the air mixing with the hydrogen creating moisture/ water. When you have no oxygen you won't have water and a more oure concentration. Simple enough. Vacuum out the tank to 20 inches od mercury and then make sure you have 20psi of hydrogen around to back fill. That way you start at atmosphere pressure of pure hydrogen like we do with a/c systems and freon.
First, you should have filled your tank with water to remove any and all propane. Dry it by letting it sit without the valve on the tank in a warm spot for a day to evaporate the water. The Hydrogen valve should have a hose or straight pipe that drops to the bottom of the tank. This way, anything that is left in the tank will be forced out by the lighter Hydrogen gas. Use common sense and physics.
Please do not compress hdrogen gas I Ave too degrees one in the handling of gas it's cheep to make on demand .don't risk your family or neighbors .ass well as your self or your home . Respecifuly yours .
Just a thought - you're trying to get the oxygen content to less than 4% but you're actually measuring the purity of the hydrogen. The 4% or so of impurities could be any other gas including nitrogen, carbon, etc, with oxygen being a very low percentage, but you'll never know because you aren't measuring specifically for it. Great series though, would be great to let you do all of the dangerous learning stage and the rest of us can follow your lead :D
Yes he keeps referring to the impurities as oxygen 🤔
Nitrogen is a dry gas
Here's a generalized question from a welder why didn't you use argon to purge your tanks that would make sense to me specially if you want to get rid of oxygen or any other gases because it is an inert gas that's argon.
Nitrogen is much cheaper and totally inert.
@@solexxx8588 but doesn’t displace oxygen like argon would. Way heavier
use a beer keg and purge with water.
Turn it upside down and pull a vacuum. Hydrogen is the lightest element so it will float while the impurities will sink so it will be easier to purge. I’ve never tried that but in theory it should work. If you do try it please let me know what your results were. Thank you
Nice video and thanks for sharing. Hey you're over 96% pure so you're safe and that's excellent! Should have no problem running it like a propane stove if you're using 100% hydrogen. Keep up the good work I love that you keep pressing forward and keep coming up with better and better things!
Thanks Tyson. Feel free to stop by sometime when your in town.
I suppose one way to clean the tank and make it safe maybe to spray in some flammable gas like Propane then vacuum it out again, this would make sure the tiny impurity left over would be a small amount of Propane, which would be of no harm to the fuel properties of the Hydrogen..
A couple of questions: How do you know you had pulled out all of the air from your 100gal tank? Second question; do you put sulfur or other scent to let you know you have a hydrogen leak?
Hie. i love the passion. To get air and oxygen out, fill the tank with hydrogen. Turn it up side down and vent the gas out through your vacuum pump. Hydrogen is very light and will displace the oxygen to the bottom of the tank. If you vacuum it upside down, the other gases come out first before the Hydrogen and the residue will still be hydrogen.
Do you know what entropy is?
That may work (in principle) for a substance where both it's liquid and gaseous phases are present in a saturated state but no way with fully mixed gases. Your idea requires breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Hi there Steve my name is Richard from Jamaica and I must say that I am impressed with your videos.my question is where can I purchase one of those compressor as well as the hydrogen analyzer and what's the cost.Thanks.regards
Hello there Steve. Recommendations be very careful compressing your gas if there's any oxygen present. Remember the individual in California that exploded a large warehouse storing the gas and had oxygen present. My suggestion is talk to an expert how to extract all the oxygen out of the tanks you are using. Follow an expert that has the expertise in this field even if you have to pay for him to come over to your location to instruct you hands-on. We both know HHO Gas is highly explosive because of the oxygen in the gas. If you have any oxygen in your storage container when you are introducing pure hydrogen is duplicating hho gas because the oxygen is present in the existing container.
I talked to myself yesterday so I think i'm good. If you watched the video you would see. Knowledge is power.
@@Hydrogen4Health lol
Right ! Compressed Hydrogen MUST BE KEPT OUTDOORS ! !
How do you replace the desiccant without spillage? The filter canisters are mounted upside down? So they have to be upside down?
I’d put one way check valves at the entrance and exit of that dryer system so oxygen can’t contaminate the system when you first start it.
Great Idea, thank you!
Great point. I have started doing my own AC repairs on my vehicles (UA-cam expert LOL) and I always purge the lines first. That little bit of air in the hoses all adds up.
Not sure how much I learned about AC can be applied here. But I think similar concepts.
TO GET THE AIR OUT WOULDN'T YOU NEED A VALVE IN THE BOTTOM OF THE PROPANE, I THINK AIR IS HEAVIER THAN AIR?
Would 1 litter a minute run a 1.5 hp engine powering a generator? I'm trying to build this but using a 12 volt battery is too much amps and kills the battery too quickly. What unit for power supply are you using?
Very good excellent work
Which of the generators on the site is the split cell design? I am only seeing HHO generators.
It's here : www.greenfuelh2o.com/product/pem-h2-generator-99-95-pure/
Fill your tank with water, then displace the water with Hydrogen? Wonder if that would help?
Would it be stupid to set a tank upside down with a pressure relief valve, pump into it and leave it long enough for the gasses to stratify under light pressure and vent the heavier gasses out before pumping the hydrogen into a storage tank?
It's still my goal to do to the design I shared with you a year-and-a-half two years ago or so. Once I get it done and have the solar system setup for it I still allowed to bring it by. Still don't know when it's going to happen but it is my goal so hopefully it happens sooner than later.
Just let me know when you want to come by.
What about seepage through the walls of the tank, is it dangerous, you need an expensive triple lined tank, l hope I'm wrong, because l want do what your doing,
Put in the collector off hydrogen another cathode generator but only charged to collect for Oxygen ? Just in case of contamination ?
My guess is that your bubbler is adding moisture to your gas mix. Wasn't sure if your bubbler was before your dryers or after. Would expect the bubbler to be before the dryers. appreciate sharing your marvelous work.
Cheers
It's before the dryer.
What is the necessity of a bubbler anyways? Is that primarily a visual indicator or does it do something more useful?
@@floridacoder
As long as you don't try to light the hho for a torch you should not need a bubbler. If you are burning the gas you must have a bubbler or the flame will blow up your water tank. My sand bubbler is preferable over water.
What is your plan on handling hydrogen embrittlement
This is great unsure on your set up. My question on your filters are you filtering water vapor?
vaccumme gage on the compressor inlet?
You have a great system there, Have you considered using concentrated sulphuric acid as a preliminary desiccant in the bubbler followed by an Iron based Oxygen scrubber
Hi Steve, I wish to have my own H2 Analyzer. Can you recommend a cheap one that works?
I am still looking for one like this! Had any chance?
Hello. Awesome show. How can a regular air pump like you have compress the hydrogen into 700 bat tanks
in part 5 you talk about another cell but what about showing the grilling part with your tank? do you have a vid on that demo?
Apparently hydrogen goes right into the metal of that 100 gallon propane tank. The atoms go into the microstructure of the container creating embrittlement. So after a number of years or even right away the computer said, the container may be compromised under pressure and burst.. It's called the diffusion of hydrogen embrittelment. There are some great reports from the type iv 700 bar composite fiber overlapping pressure tanks. And some low pressure ones like you are working on level i and level ii of the same material. They say the embrittlement gets more effective at higher pressure. Yours is pretty low temp. I'm not saying your tank will burst now but the computer describes the process.
Es un compresor de aire el que usas para comprimir el hidrógeno?
My project is using sea water to make Hydrogen - to run a generator for electricity. ( is that possible? please advice.
It's possible but the sea water will corrode any metal parts in the system and coat any of the plastics in the system with salt. You also have to be careful about the additional chemicals and stuff in the water so pretreatment is a must. After that it should be fairly easy. Honestly best bet is probably a 2 step process of distillation then re-add an electrolyte and produce hydrogen. You do not want any salt left in the water whatsoever or you will create chlorine gas. You know, the stuff used back in WW1
Use a teaspoon of baking soda for each quart. Apparently you don't have to add more when you add water because the sodium stays in the water. But others say it tapers off after awhile. Try stainless Steel electrodes
He bleed the air out of his hose also ?
hi hope all is well, I am producing browns gas do you know of a way one can use it to produce electricity?
once this is filled could you use this like a oxy/accetaline torch?
Yes but you would still need a bottle of oxygen.
Hello Steve I'm very new at what you seem to know well. So I would like to ask you a question on a power system I'm trying to develop. I live in Texas and I'm going to put up solar panel on my roof with the intentions of either using PEM cells or maybe radio frequency to split water. But instead of trying to store hydrogen I'm going to use a Satatier reactor to turn the hydrogen into natural gas. I will capture the co2 from a 10kw tri fuel generator I bought to use the Co2 and hydrogen into a reactor. I have converted all my appliances into using natural gas. I only have calculations that say a system like this will work to provide electric power, heat, and fuel my car. Can you please tell me due to your practical knowledge and experience, will this system I'm building work? Thank you, Brian...love your videos..thanks
I need information on the build of the dryer cells please
Why not store the gas in truck tires !? They can also handle about 100 - 120 psi and would only generate flying gum as shrapnel ..lol.😅
Why do u comment on all these hydrogen videos? Can u really get over unity from hho or browns or cavitation or we?
Truck tires explode and kill people every day. Also, the Hydrogen will leak right through the rubber of the tire.
Shouldn't U turn you big bottle upside down to empty it properly
You could try a acetone dry ice bath on your tank while running the vac pump.
you really should put a vacuum gauge on the inlet of the compressor... so you know just how "empty" it really "isn't". It would take no less than a couple hours to pull a real vacuum down on a tank that size (with that small pump). If you are trying to use compression as a gauge, then you are asking the compressor to do double-duty... and they don't do that well. You need to leave the output open so that the compressor can actually create a vacuum.Are you sure your desiccant moisture removal system can really handle that high of a gas flow rate? The bubbler adds a horrible amount of moisture, I'm concerned you are putting moisture into that tank. The bead size in your desiccant filters is very large, making large gaps between them... and the dwell time of the gas doesn't seem long enough to allow for absorption. If you had a way to test the pressure drop across each one, then you would have an idea how effective they are... there has to be back-pressure / flow resistance in order to let the desiccant function.
I highly agree on vacuum purging. Good point on the dessicant.
Seems to me the hydrogen would separate and stay at the top of the tank. You should invert the tank putting the valve at the bottom so you could draw all of the heavier gasses off the bottom.
what is making the hydro a generator or dry cell?
Hallonsir . Do we need any cheical to compress
not using a oxygen scrubber ? also read that steel tanks are not best for hydrogen since can make the tanks brittle but unsure. others where using nickel metal hydrides to store the gas in much greater density but much trickier ! like your setup.
Joe Pearce I could use a purifier but not needed yet with this setup. Just looking to get pure enough gas to compress.
Yes steel can become brittle over many years.
My question is , if you put a hydrogen gas into a tank, what is the maximum stantard psi during compression?
where do you buy hyfrogen analyser?
What do you use the oxygen for?
What kind of compressor is that?
So, 1st you pull all the oxygen out of tank, then fill the tank with hydrogen, then pull everything out of the tank, then fill the tank up to about 10 psi, then testwhen you fill the 100lb tank with hydrogen at about 10 lbs, and then..test the quality. If greater than 96%, you say fill /pressure the tank 5o 25 lbs. How? If filling at 1-2 Lpm, how can we compress a 100lb thank to 125psi in a smaller tank?
Using a compressor as a vacuum pump is the smartest thing
Are you worried about hydrogen embrittlement? Your steel tank might be susceptible to this. Don't they use aluminum tanks that are carbon fiber/ fiberglass resin reinforced because the natural oxide layer that forms on aluminum is impervious to hydrogen?
May have been an idea to fill the tank with an oil. Run a pipe down the centre to the bottom then pressurise with Hydrogen. (Pipe in pips Hydrogen on the outer) The gas pressure then forces the oil out purging the tank of all. Should have a pic somewhere of a valve I made a while back if only for the purpose of pressurising oil in tank for a waste oil burner. But aye turn it upside down as others have suggested.
Iam not very smart but if you turn your propane tank upside-down and fill it with hydrogen wouldn't it force all the air out of the tank if you leave it open or purge the tank with co2 gas or run the exhaust gas out of a gas engine in the tank to purge the tank
What's the likelihood of an explosion when the low oxygen concentrated gas is under PRESSURE? I realize that 120 psi's not that high, but it'd sure be nice to know.
Not much if outdoors. The issue is ventilation. Hydrogen is the lightest element and rises so fast - it is lighter then air. Even a fan would be helpful. But ventilation is key even in cars.
Unless things have changed a lot your tank is 100# not gallons. you have a nice setup. Is your compressor a oil less?
Yes I got that mixed up all the time. The compressor is oil less. I have a video coming out tomorrow I think you will like.
@@Hydrogen4Health Not trying to be a smart a__ but some things just seem to jump at me. Like the compressor. I am glad you told me it was oil free and not a bomb!
What was the source for your hydrogen gas meter system?
I like this, good job!
what membrane are you using?
Nafion 117, or something else?
Have you considered the refrigerator compressor? they give up to 25 bar, stable.
If hydrogen is lighter than air, why not fill the tank with hydrogen, flip the tank, give it time to settle and open the tank valve to release the denser air at the bottom?
That odorant added to propane and methane that gives them smell is potent stuff. Methyl mercaptan is common. A little goes a loooong way and once a tank has ever held something that contains it, it takes f.o.r.e.v.e.r. to get rid of it.
How well does the pump act as a vacuum pump? As others have said you shouldn't assume all of that 5% is pure oxygen. But perhaps using an a pump designed to work in reverse would make a slight difference.
That being said I'm not sure if there is a difference in design with a vacuum pump and gas pump in terms of direction. And now I'm wondering if I could use my vacuum pump as a gas pump LOL. I don't have a visible input port, but maybe if I remove the casing there is one. And if that's a major safety risk.
How are pumps designed for volatile gasses different? Or are they essentially the same?
The fish tank pump supplements the poorly produced oxygen which you must have to burn hydrogen in the sand heater. The top of our sand heater is sealed up with only a 1/16 inch vent hole on top. It is used to light the gas and vent steam. A small fish tank pump has helped keep sand on fire 🔥 from time to time. Sand is filled right to top of heater top cover.
can shut off pump after pulling max then let set 30 mins to boil out water .
OK... last thought... re: Compressibility of Hydrogen.The most simple of gasses... you really can't expect much volumetric compression of hydrogen... unless you refrigerate it to a liquid (cryogenic). h2tools.org/hyarc/data/hydrogen-propertiesPropane has a relatively high boiling point of -44°F, a high critical temperature (+206°F), and liquefies at low pressures. Under a pressure of only 128psi it will stay liquid at 80°F. Propane in its liquid state is compressed volumetrically 270:1... so 1 liter of liquid propane creates 270 liters of gas at atmospheric pressure. Propane Liquid Density @ 70°F = 31.12 lb/ft3Propane Gas Density @ 70°F 1 atm = 0.116 lb/ft3Hydrogen boiling point is -423°F and by pressure alone, liquefaction can't be achieved. Modern composite tanks can hold up to 800 bar(!!!) can achieve almost 50% volumetric efficiency as cryogenic liquid hydrogen.
Hydrogen is normally compressed to at least 700 bar for tank storage
The O2 is possibly stemming from the h2o water bubbler.. ... ??? Hope to find out in future video. Thanks dor sharing....
What would this set up cost me to builc
🤦♂️so confused. Why do you run the gas through water and then three dryers? That seems very contradicting to me.
It’s bubbled through the water column to act as a firebreak. At the top of the bubbler is a flash port. It protects against explosion.
the smell is not propane its odorant, mercaptan. I wonder how much vacuum that is actually producing, though some is definitely better than none! One other thought I had, knowing jack about chemistry, is can running the hydrogen through water in the bubbler, can that act separate some of the O2 and H as its bubbled through? Very interesting, thanks for the video!
Hdrogen is alight gas if you want to get rid of the oxygenturn the bottle upsid Dow and bleed off the o.
Greetings, sir, how much is the output? Is it possible to purchase this system? Please reply for the importance
One more question... Do those water filter housings have opposite-end flow direction? In other words, does the gas enter at the bottom, and exit at the top? Seems like the only way to get maximum gas exposure to the desiccant crystals. Also it seems the gas inlet should be at the lowest part of the media tank, and "dry as you flow up", since the moisture-laden gas will be heavier, and should enter at the bottom of the desiccant media chamber. That will keep the dry crystals at the top of the chamber, preventing the moisture soaked crystals at the bottom from contaminating the dry crystals.Real lab grade gas dryers are always spec'd with flow rate - this one is 200 liters/hour and uses #8 mesh media (
You really know what your talking about. My filters are not that good. I went to the link and that's the type of dryer I should be using. I think i'll make a pair of them. Thank you for your help!
Can you please share where to buy the desiccant thanks @@Hydrogen4Health
um.....
i mean
how about just getting an "upside-down" tank? let some hydrogen in, wait a minute, open the valve :V the oxygen is heavier then hydrogen and will be at the bottom, easy to get it out that way
Lol. Learn the science. Gases mix, they do not separate by molecular weight.
@@solexxx8588 I do indeed know the science. Sure, you never get a full seperation unless your force it
but the main seperation could indeed work in a closed system. gasses do follow the rule of density to a degree, in the usual air its not happening because of wind and all kinds of stuff that mixes them continously, but in a closed tank where basically is nothing present....it could work to a degree, especially since the mass difference is big enough between hydrogen and oxygen.
Yes, even thermodynamics says this should be possible if there is no additional energy added to the system (for exmaple you do as i say and then just wait abit) Hydrogen will be almost pure in the top, then comes a gas mix phase, and udner that should be a rather pure oxygen phase, and if you do it right you could purge it by simply starting the draining of the tank by opening a bottom valve and just being slow with it
Thx my friend, please, how much is the safe pressure of pure hydrogen that I can reach without warning
Seems you could measure the purity right off of the cell to get a base of purity and if its less than 96% I dont see hiw you will get it lower, the large tank if turned upside down and purged with hydrogen would work better,
Not bad at all . Congrats.
I see 120 psi. Is that liquefiated at this presure?
Dry 97.56 pretty good .thank you
wow very good purity you achieving here
The propane and the oxygen is at the bottom of the tank because it is heavier than hydrogen... and your inlet to the tank is at the top. If you want to purge out the heavier gas from the tank you have to flip the tank upside down wait a bit and open the valve so the hydrogen pushes the heavier gas out the valve at the bottom.. I had to do this when filling balloons. www.qrp-labs.com/flights/s3.html.. Dave
Thanks Dave that makes perfect sense
Steve,Great job on your cell design given those high numbers of hydrogen content. I am wondering if filling the bottle at a slower rate or adjusting the water level in the bubblers or reservoir to the cell preventing less oxygen bleed through to the membranes in the cell? Let me know thx. "D"
The hydrotube produces 99+% pure H2. It doesn't matter what happens in the tanks. I can get 99.98 with a purifier. Just trying to keep this as simple as possible.
delvis11 wow that's outstanding Steve thanks for sharing the info on the cell.
Will hydrogen react to the oil in the compressor?
Not without oxygen. explosions and fire require an oxidizer.
if I were you I wouldn't run the hydrogen through the water in the bubbler. Run the test without the bubbler.
Could you provide a little more explanation for the reasoning behind your suggestion?
My thoughts too.. Could be absorbing dissolved oxygen.
Even at 120 psi you probably only get about 16 cubic feet of hydrogen in the smaller tank.
you are picking up o2 from the water exposed not from the electrolysis itself
Hey. I watch your videos because we have the same interests. I also made projects like this Hydrogen dry cell separator, to store the produced hydrogen in propane bottles, and to replace the home use of propane for hydrogen. Only instead of this expensive hydrogen purity analyzer, I have otherwise tested the purity of the hydrogen I produce from my cell electrolyser. The separator electrolyzer I personally made, and it is almost identical to you, is only slightly different in shape and dimension ... We could exchange ideas, and practical knowledge about this technology, if it does not present you a problem. Hello I'm Johnny
I am writing blue prints of a 1500 mile hydrogen tanks Uses four 7 cubic feet carbine fiber tanks. My issue is the loading of electrolyte (which is best) and how to compress into car tanks? Why do people say that a garden hose can be used to pressure the hydrogen from the electrosis into tanks?
That looks dangerous. But it's very interesting.
The bubbler reintroduced oxygen into your gas.
I don't think so.
Hey Steve... great job. Have you considered cooling the hydrogen to a liquid in order to get more volume in the tank? I have seen people use computer cpu water cooler blocks and Peltier devices to construct a on demand Coca-Cola cool drink dispenser.... It's basically what I was thinking of trying, otherwise I would either need to re purpose a freezer or purchase bottles of liquid nitrogen which could potentially become expensive over time.... the Peltier cooling system is a once purchase option that could potentially run of a solar system.... It's just a matter of how many cpu water cooler blocks to use so that you can get the hydrogen gas to condense into a liquid.... Anyway! loving the videos, wishing you success with it... You have yourself another subscription...
Can't believe UA-cam didn't suggest your videos to me before? I have searched long and hard on this particular topic and only now it shows up as a recommendation while I was looking for other stuff LoL...
The temperature of liquid hydrogen is −423.17 °F.. Peltier devices are not able to cool below -100 °F. no matter how may stages are used.
Sorry but a peltier module (or a hundred) doesn't ever go that cold...
Hi Can you turn the tank upside down before testing to ensure no bubble of oxygen trapped in the bottom of the tank cheers 🥂 🥂 🥂
i wish you good luck... i personally would only compress it if the reading was at least 99.9% everything below i would be too scared .....
Perhaps you forgot to purge the dryers (desiccant filters) of oxygen before measuring the hydrogen purity for the first time.
The concern I have is where you are venting the waste hydrogen mix into your workshop. That’s a high risk as any spark is catastrophic. Even when you are testing the quality of the hydrogen, you are venting near pure gas into your workshop, instead of purging it to an exhaust above the roofline. Great ideas but so dangerous.
hello Steve, greetings from Brazil.
I´m going to get one of your hydrotube and would like to know if you are able to supply me a hydrogen analyzer like your HYME-S ... isn´t an easy or cheap item to find.
could not find many alternatives too.
thanx
We do not sell or manufacture the Hydrotube anymore.
do you have a suggestion of something with good quality, looking for some decent quality 24 vdc separator ...
i see some gfx separators at your site...but they are hho ...
Yes I sell HHO generators but not the hydrotube.
There is next to nothing out there.
I would have purged the system of oxygen and ran an inert gas like nitrogen through it. That way you won't need the desiccant driers because you have oxygen in the air mixing with the hydrogen creating moisture/ water.
When you have no oxygen you won't have water and a more oure concentration. Simple enough.
Vacuum out the tank to 20 inches od mercury and then make sure you have 20psi of hydrogen around to back fill. That way you start at atmosphere pressure of pure hydrogen like we do with a/c systems and freon.
عايز دايرهbwmلتحليل الماء بكام
or juts put a purge valve on the tank and fill it with hydro and purge it from the top every now and then to get all the air out
I will give you a freezer from NASA goes minus 80 it new just pay shipping it's y'alls I would love to contribute to your journey. Eddie
If you ran the hydrogen through a catlytic converter media it would burn off the small amount of oxygen without explosions.
Also the catalyst doesn't have to be preheated for hydrogen.
id fill it with water and use the hydrogen to displace the fluid
First, you should have filled your tank with water to remove any and all propane.
Dry it by letting it sit without the valve on the tank in a warm spot for a day to evaporate the water.
The Hydrogen valve should have a hose or straight pipe that drops to the bottom of the tank. This way, anything that is left in the tank will be forced out by the lighter Hydrogen gas.
Use common sense and physics.
TIS NOT A 100 GALLON TANK.
It is not even 100 LITRES.
IT LOOKS LIKE 35 LITRE.
WHICH... as a guesstimate....
MIGHT BE 10-15 GALLONS
That tank would easily fit inside a 45gallon gasoline drum.
Dont use the compressor tank
Please do not compress hdrogen gas I Ave too degrees one in the handling of gas it's cheep to make on demand .don't risk your family or neighbors .ass well as your self or your home . Respecifuly yours .
Joe Soboleski people do this at home. As long as you play by the rules you will be fine. Spent 5 years getting to this point.
Joe works for ExxonMobil, ignore him