The goal of these cost of ownership videos is to help those of you thinking about buying air cooled understand what goes into caring for these cars. I hope I’ve accomplished that goal.
I understand your preference for the 964 and the 993 to the 3.2, after all every new Porsche is better than the previous one. But in my eyes the 3.2 is the most attractive of the three cars. It best embodies the Porsche look.
I'm the original owner of an '86 3.2. It's a three season car. Always garaged. About 18K miles. The car has cost me almost nothing outside of routine maintenance over the past 35 years. One injector, sunroof motor, and couple of other relatively cheap items. I don't think they have to be that expensive. Also had an '89 944 Turbo. Drove that one every day in all conditions. I did not have major expenses there either.
@@robertvarda9307 The point is that your costs will be a function of miles. A car used daily will cost a hell of a lot more over over the years then a sunny-Sunday car. Driven the way they are often driven they aren't expensive to own. Somewhat obvious of course but I wasn't looking to provide a deeply insightful contribution to the thread.
@@robertvarda9307 Agree, I can’t believe a 38 year old car (irrespective of manufacturer) that is driven less than 500 miles a year hasn’t needed hoses, catalytic converter (think these were in 911s in the 80’s?) etc replaced in 35 years of ownership I don’t doubt the owner has a great car that’s provided him with 35 years of motoring pleasure but this mythology around Porsche bulletproof reliability is pure hype. I’ve got a couple of friends with younger aircooled 911’s (993’s) and their annual mileage is around the same as my F355 (approx 1,000) and their annual service/maintenance costs are not too dissimilar as mine (approx £2k a year).
@@sultanoftippoo3857 it depends, but I guess on average and considering a car that is really serviced and maintained properly, meaning not in some amateurs garage, the 993 will be cheaper. I consider my car well serviced and probably on the upper third of the market, still I had far less than 2K a year in service and repair over the last 15 years. Pretty hard to really calculate those things, cause if you own the car for 2 years and your engine explodes, this will set you back 12-13K, but that doesn't really mean 993 running costs are 12-13K in 2 years. Considering you are in GB and I'm in Germany, plus I'm getting 20% off for parts cause I work for Porsche, this may not be the most fair comparison, but if I have to bet, let's say a kidney, which car is less expensive to run and more bulletproof in the long run I'd say it's an aircooled Porsche. It's not just hype. Yes, parts are almost equally expensive on those cars, but I doubt your Ferrari V8 can do 150K miles without overhaul, not even considering that any aircooled Porsche is much easier to work on than any Ferrari
I do my own work and most of what you listed. Working in the garage is rewarding and a big cost savings. The forums, with great amount help, I can attack any project. The oil changes for five vehicles, that keeps me busy alone.
I agree, I do almost all the work on my 85 myself and save a ton and get the satisfaction of doing it. Some of those cost he has done are very high for what they are.
I've owned an 84' for 9 years and my cost of ownership vs yours is drastic. The car needed a full trans service (915), tires and a basic tune up. Over the usage I went through a voltage regulator, new brake kit ,and that's about it. Bought it with 63K and it now has 90+. All in I've spent 30+/- not including shipping or insurance etc. It helps having a good shop and also the know how around cars. But this car has been amazing to own, always there, reliable, everything works, no leaks, great heat (if you know you know). Its one of those cars that I feel like Im not putting enough money into but it always grounds me, and lets me know that it’s happy when I use it.
Love your videos and enthusiasm for the cars! Fwiw, we've had our 83 SC for just about 27 years, and it has run about 8-1200 bucks a year over that span (granted, I do everything but clutches myself). Of course, I would be embarrassed to park our car anywhere near any of your 911s ; )
Sounds about right Will. Whenever I buy a car, I always end up putting a lot into it initially to get it up to my standards, even with a solid maintenance history. On my 997 GT3, I put about $6k into it the first year I had it and then another $3500 the next year.
Another great video Will. My experience with my ‘82 is of course, different but the things you have had to do are all pretty normal and standard. Hope the PO had an engine out service included in his costs you mentioned. If not, you should expect to address more oil leaks, clutch, top end etc. Just part of the gate fee to play with these fun Pcars. My all-in costs are a bit more but I have done some much more extensive modifications and updates. I expect that, with the exception of mods, you may have a decent run of time before you have some of those maintenance costs I mentioned above, that should help lower your annual average cost of ownership. Thanks again for sharing the info!
This guy is full of crap. I have a 1986 Porsche 911 Carrera. He may have spent that to get it where he wants it, but to keep it running right and on the road is not even close. I spend maybe $500 a year and I drive mine every day. These cars are made to be driven and the air cooled 911's are easy to maintain.
what a gorgeous example! subscribed and liked. i've caught the bug after going to Germany to take euro delivery of my wife's macan! let me know if you decide to sell!
Will, clearly you are a perfectionist and your cars show that. Man, what a beautiful collection you have. You are truly an enthusiastic owner. Thanks for the sharing your journey with all your glorious examples. Envy...
I have a 1987 911 that I bought in 2009 for $14,000. I have spent approximately $10,000 since on tires, shocks, electrical upgrades, clutch, and several maintenance items (all at a shop). I am amazed by how much others spend on what is a relatively simple car. After all the modifications how do you know you are driving a 1980's Porsche?
I just got around to watching this video. Appreciate your openness on the cost of ownership. I really love my 993 but on track for $3k per year in upkeep. In comparison my 997 only needed oil changes over 3 years of ownership. For people getting into the air cooled game it is just good to get prepared for cars that are 25+ years old.
Yes, I tell people to set aside 10% - 20% of the cost of the car for initial deferred maintenance and repairs…and celebrate if you don’t have to spend it 😄
Thanks for sharing the detailed costs, really helpful. I bought a 1993 C2 coupe in September, and I expect a hefty initial bill from the Porsche dealer. But … love these cars!
I think you did pretty good on your price and maintenance and updates. Maintenance just has to be done once it’s done you get the benefit of fresh rubber, fresh front end parts, fresh AC , weatherstripping upholstery. all that’s part of the age of the car no matter what if it’s a Porsche or a Peugeot. Besides we love the beautiful lines of a Porsche and you just have to decide yourself if it’s a priority and you appreciate a classic beauty and you’re willing to allocate your personal cash to maintain it. that’s how I feel.
I do my own work on my Carrera 3.2 where I can and most of the maintenance I can easily do for next to nothing. I repaired my electrical, sunroof, radio, brake flush, fresh air blower, etc for parts only and that's peanuts compared to the cost of labor to put love into the car. These cares were hand by actual humans people using hand tools and can be disassembled and rebuilt in the home garage by the owner in the exact same way. So much easier than modern cars with their cramped engine compartments and pre-built componentry that's not designed to be rebuilt.
Exactly. Its super cheap car to maintain if you can do it your self. The oil service on my 3,2 G50 car is like 150USD. I also changed the seal and velcro strap around roof window, and it was like 17 or 20 EUR.
Thanks for all the detail. It seems as though most of these costs are startup, tuning and customizing to your preference (e.g., swapping out new tires). I expect costs will decrease dramatically going forward. I've owned and self-maintained my '85 for over 25 years now, and am certain it will outlast me and most people on the planet right now.
I've owned an '87 for around 10 years now and SC for the same. Both cars needed engine rebuilds and a host of other things during my ownership, but I've done every bit of it outside setting lash on a new LSD. I think the vast majority of repairs listed here, are ones that most owners can do without special tools, in depth manuals or previous experience. With a bit of effort (like a couple weekends) a very large percentage of the repairs listed could be done with the exception of mounting tires and possibly the paint correction. So for people struggling to find an affordable car in 2023, doing the items listed themselves can be make or break for owning an air cooled car.
I’m sure it’s great working on it. I’m by no means a mechanic but I try to do most of the stuff on my m3. It’s rewarding doing your own maintenance or mods
Worked on and test drove some Porsches but never got one in my stable. Any Targa 911 (air cooled) would be a dream for me but I know that I would have to know what the car is truly capable of which means a closed track only and well $$$$$ later how often do you get to drive one properly? I have fun on my 2006 Vespa GT 200 scooter at 90+ MPG! Your video on the subject is graciously sobering as a Porsche dreamer; maybe I can find a cheap 914 somewheres...
I have a dilemma, I have a 991.2 C2 but feel I want a 86-87 G body. I currently lack time and a mechanic to buy a project. May I ask your opinions? Do you feel paying $90-100K plus for a sorted (if in your opinion that is the price for sorted) G body makes sense or will I miss out on the journey/bonding by paying less and having it sorted out myself?
Hi, Not sure if you still own the Porsche, But I'm new to the Wilmington NC area and I'm in the market for a 1984-1989 911. If you're considering selling or know of a well maintained example I would appreciate if you would consider me. Let me know and let's talk . Thanks
$11,295 over the course of 24 months. An average of $470 per month. An average of $108.61 per week. An aveage of $21.72 per day based on a five day week.
The 911 is the poor man's 928. Sorry - I gotta call balls and strikes. the 928 was European "Car" of the Year 1979. No other sports car including the 911 has ever won "Car" of the year. The 928 has won 2 production car land speed record at Bonneville (1986 and 2020) - the 911 has exactly won none. Even 911 enthusiast Magnus Walker has started his 928 collection - its Now or Never for the 928 still the biggest Bang for the Buck in classic Porsches. Singer/RWB/RUF could easily reimagine 928s - its just a matter of time before someone specializes in customizing and outlawing 928s - There is no substitute. The 911 Killer's time has come!
Thanks for this. I've a 1996 993 C2 iris blue metallic, 66,000 miles, 6-speed manny tranny, varioram, LSD. No CEL, no oil leaks. Multi-show full-concours winner. I do my own maintenance. I'm never selling it.
Someone is selling a 1980 911sc with 60k miles for 9k and idk if I should buy it as it is stick shift, would be my first stick shift car, (I have driven and drive stick shifts quite often at work.)
May i ask were are you located …..i am a owner of a 1982 911 sc coup….i am looking to sell….tying to find the true value….it is in immaculate condition….always garage kept….any info would be appreciated 12:48
ps $47000 think how much a new car is without it being as beautiful. Breaking down the want vs need would make a big difference. Oil changes, tires etc are normal on any car. my 1992 hasnt cost me much but would have to go look over the last 30 years. it is about 91,000 miles on it.
not sure if you represent an average as your car is pristine. like concourse level, not the weekend car. i think costs could be half if owners are not picky of each little details, especially changing exhaust.. but you were lucky ot get it for that price now is worth 120k imo (if on actuion at premimu firm)
If you truly love a car you don't let anybody else touch it. I'd be doing all the work myself. There really is no excuse these days in the age of the internet, all the information is at your fingertips.
Great upkeep, but most of that work could have been much cheaper doing on your own. Part of the enjoyment is tending to your car yourself, learning every nook and cranny. I get the purist Porsche snobs that have to have everything documented by a certified Porsche mechanic, but the cost cost outlined in the video seems a bit misleading bc of that. I think you jave 2 price upkeep categories, you fall in the "have other people do the work" category. Im too broke to be in that category for my Porsche lol.
Very informative, Will. I am still in the sorting phase of my 88 3.2 purchased in September. To date, about $1600 spent and I don’t have the bill for front sway bar bushings to cure an annoying squeak. Mileage is similar to your 86. They say you can’t put a price on happiness but sounds like $4-6k per year is a fair estimate.
Thank you!!!! I'm 21 and have a beautiful 996, however I'm in love with yours. But the amount of work and customization (favorable mods) makes it extremely hard to even consider selling
Alot of this stuff you could and should have done the work yourself. Listening to your expenses alot of the wo😊rk was adjustments and maintenance that you should have done yourself and save a ton of money while also actually learning about the car . Only thing is you make have to do a little bit of thinking and 😊got your hands a little dirty
Hi there, I do own a 3.2 in the Uk. A great car, I do believe in keeping on top of the maintenance. But the cost will always spiral when you get into the world of mods. But much respect for making these vids.
I think now that the three cars all have been sorted out the 993 and 964 will be less expensive to maintain than the red 1986 if they are driven the same amount of road miles in the long term from now and on...
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Your maintainance costs are quite similar to mine. It's always a project of repairing and rebuilding to me after purchasing. After this first period the normal costs of maintaining are usually decreasing to about 2k to3k a year.
That’s ok. Try to forget the money and just fall in love with the car. I got hurt on my 964 when I bought it (transmission issue - needed a rebuild) but I’m over it now and loving the car.
I love the stance on the car. Can you share the front and rear tire size and also if the car has been lowered. I have a 1988 Carrera coupe and I want to make it look just like yours. Thanks in advance.
It’s not my forte. I have tried and I lack the mentality to do it. Could I if I tried really hard to learn? Sure. But I don’t really want to, and will leave it up to the experts.
I own a 1980 911 SC In the 22 years I have owned this car it never cost me that much money yearly. I purchased the car 22 years ago for $11,000 had the engine rebuilt for $10,000 On average I would say no more than $100 a year to maintain.
I own a 1988 911 coupe red/black 31,000K absolutely flawless. I paid top dollar Approx. $100,000 The car needs nothing it is really great. I think in my opinion your car is a $70,000 to $80,000 after what you have done to it and with the service history etc.
I like how you’re developing the channel Will - it’s getting better and better. My, I guess I’ve been very lucky. The amount of work your cars have required is an order magnitude above my 964. I’ve owned the car for 10 years, driven it 120K miles and ball-park the maintenance costs at $4 - 6K per year. In 2016 - 2018, at 186K miles, we did a major resto-mod on the car, that’s far beyond the $4 - 6K amount. It was elective, so I hold that separate. Admittedly, I haven’t added up all the numbers as you have; and I’m not sure I would want to, I think it would decrease my enjoyment of the car. We’ve bantered this idea before, but I think it’s really significant who has owned and cared for (or not) a car before you become its steward. When you buy a classic car, in addition to whatever provenance the car may have, you’re also buying a piece of the previous owners’ lives and preferences.
For my own Mercedes E Class Per Year Annually Service maintenance £1,000 Fuel £2,500 MOT test £50 Tires £300 Insurance £600 Road tax £200 Totals £4,650 per year Average per month £387.50 Average per week £89.42 I live in the UK Second hand Mercedes E class bought for approx. £11,000. Therefore I am spending approx 42% of the purchase price on annual running costs. This does seem high and expensive. My biggest cost is Fuel and I put approx £100 of diesel per fortnight, approx £2,500 fuel per year, mostly commuting to work. The car returns around 40-45 MPG which I think is very decent for such a large luxury car.
Great video, AGAIN! Thanks for the transparency. You need to bear in mind that you had to retread some expenses due to choices you regretted, such as the tires and exchange of the exhaust system. So, you're probably more in line with the prior owner and more reasonable than you think.
Experiencing sellers remorse. Sold my lovely -94 C2 in PTS Amethyst this week. Agreed to the deal solely as it was the original owner looking to buy it back and he had all these stories of it being his daily for years and driving his daughters to the kindergarten in it. He even had the original invoice for the car. Got to spend a fantastic day with this gentleman extraordinaire but just realized I’m NEVER going to be able to get myself such a nice 993 with that kind of provenance and maintenance history ever again. Even the 15-% premium I made on it over 4 months of ownership doesn’t really make up for not having the Amethyst jewel in my garage anymore💜🥲
Keep the faith. You’ll find another one one day that will make parting with this one worth it. You’ve earned some amazing karma points for selling it back to the original owner.
@@davidjaxonmusic 🙏🏻 Also sold my Macadamia metallic manual box -10 C2 in September through a indie specialist. Made ~8% premium on that one, but my god it was a sweet ride. Bone stock, 6spd base Carrera. Having only a 2-car garage is troublesome when owning 4 Porsches in an arctic climate. I’m cheering for climate change😬
That’s rough bc I can totally guess how you’re feeling right now. That guy is a lucky dude….I don’t think he could have pried that car out of my possession. Keep looking. Something will come around.
@@Rennthusiast having a new order (first ever new Porsche) on the way and an outlawed -90 964C4 plus the daily driver Taycan, I both need the space for it, although I’ve got 2 places in a storage some 1,5 hrs drive away, but one also need the time to use all of them and especially the time (and money) to keep them all in pristine working condition. Having pulled the engine on the 964 and a major overhaul on that one, parting with the 993 C2 was the sensible thing to do, although I was contemplating just keeping all 4 of them. Having a couple in storage, the wife wouldn’t know either😇
Wow! That is incredibly high repair and maintenance cost at almost $400 per month average. That’s getting into Ferrari and Lamborghini expected maintenance cost. I’ve owned six Porsches in the last 10 years, and I can say, without a doubt I have spent less than half on all of them combined as you have on this one car. So I don’t know if you’re happy or upset about your maintenance cost, but that is drastically higher than average for a classic.
Which generation of turbo? I found my 997.1 turbo to just be too good (and tempting) for street use. I have never owned a 930 but have driven a couple and they feel more substantial than their corresponding NA brethren. I think there are plus’s and minus’s to each, but I do like the 930’s looks. That said, the ones I have driven are sluggish down low…but when the boost comes on there exhilarating. Big picture for me, though…I am an NA guy. In fairness, I do own a 992 Carrera T (that I LOVE) which has the 3.0 flat six with smaller turbos on it…but it makes power very similarly to a NA car.
Those cost are for those who can't work (or don't want to) at all on the car.... Holding antique cars, it worths learning to work on those..... you'll know your car and you'll save a lot of money.... But it's a choice....
Someday in the future, I hope to own a 911 from 89 (My dream car). My uncle used to own one after he begged my grandfather to buy one for him during his start for college. He made the horrible decision later on by selling that car and buying a jeep for his at the time gold digging girlfriend. After he sold the 911 and got her the jeep, she later dumped him. My grandfather has not to this day forgiven him for a selling to 911. I've asked my grandfather if he has forgiven him and in his words, "I love him, but no." I told my grandfather that someday I will own a black 911, the same one my uncle had and he thought it was a great idea.
Such a gorgeous car! The ownership of an air cooled Porsche requires plenty of cash and/or a solid mechanical knowledge to maintain the vehicle yourself. There is no real cheap way to own one and to have it run and look as good as your vehicle. You need cash and/or skills once you put one in your garage.
I would suggest you need both. I did almost all of my work which left more of my budget available to buy more “stuff” for the mods and updates that I wanted to do.
Hey Allen, I had never wrenched on a car before, other than an oil change, but I started doing all sorts of maintenance on my 1979 911. UA-cam has incredible teachers at your fingertips. I rebuilt a front brake caliper, a window regulator, overhauled sloppy shifting issues by replacing bushings and other parts. Yes, I got sweaty palms a few times, but as a newbie with initially very little knowledge, I started getting more and more comfortable working on it. Granted, it was not a numbers matching, high value car. It scared me at first, because this is a “Porsche “ I’m working on, but I felt it to be a very rewarding process and I saved lots of $$ along the way. So I don’t think people should be overly intimidated to take on some maintenance issues.
just a question, do you take this to a mechanic? or do you do the maintenance. i think that if you are doing these yourself than you are overpaying for materials.
Your experiences is almost exactly the same as mine. In 2017 I had bought a 1987 Camera 3.2 slant nose, Purchased at $49,000 and, have put about 10,000 into it. Interestingly, just put it up for sale this weekend. Philip Prosapio Little Falls Minnesota
Hi Kevin, Have the car at Porsche St Paul. I just ordered a 2022 Panamera 4 S ehybrid and plan on trading in my 2018 Panamera 4 ehybrid and having them sell the Slantnose. Interesting that I might still owe them money in the end! The frustrating part is 5 to 6 months wait time on the new car. If your anywhere nearby, can check out the Slantnose in about a week or so. Phil
@@philipprosapio2295 ah that would be great. unfortunately i lived in germany. therefore it will not be possible for me. :( but I hope someone else can be happy. I would have been very happy :)
Make the volume louder in your videos. I wanted to watch this earlier today but I had to wait until I can come home and run it through a bluetooth speaker at full volume to here at normal volume
The goal of these cost of ownership videos is to help those of you thinking about buying air cooled understand what goes into caring for these cars. I hope I’ve accomplished that goal.
Great video. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living. You own so many porsche 911s, just got me curious.
I own a business
@@Rennthusiast means all and nothing😂
@@HoboHeavennuff said tbh 😂
Even with the cost of procurement, maintenance and mods...seems totally worth it in my opinion. It’s a beautiful Porsche.
I understand your preference for the 964 and the 993 to the 3.2, after all every new Porsche is better than the previous one. But in my eyes the 3.2 is the most attractive of the three cars. It best embodies the Porsche look.
I'm the original owner of an '86 3.2. It's a three season car. Always garaged. About 18K miles. The car has cost me almost nothing outside of routine maintenance over the past 35 years. One injector, sunroof motor, and couple of other relatively cheap items. I don't think they have to be that expensive. Also had an '89 944 Turbo. Drove that one every day in all conditions. I did not have major expenses there either.
Always drive them , you know that. German cars need to be driven.
You can't be serious. It's not costing you anything because you're hardly driving it. 473 miles a year?
@@robertvarda9307 The point is that your costs will be a function of miles. A car used daily will cost a hell of a lot more over over the years then a sunny-Sunday car. Driven the way they are often driven they aren't expensive to own. Somewhat obvious of course but I wasn't looking to provide a deeply insightful contribution to the thread.
@@robertvarda9307 Agree, I can’t believe a 38 year old car (irrespective of manufacturer) that is driven less than 500 miles a year hasn’t needed hoses, catalytic converter (think these were in 911s in the 80’s?) etc replaced in 35 years of ownership
I don’t doubt the owner has a great car that’s provided him with 35 years of motoring pleasure but this mythology around Porsche bulletproof reliability is pure hype.
I’ve got a couple of friends with younger aircooled 911’s (993’s) and their annual mileage is around the same as my F355 (approx 1,000) and their annual service/maintenance costs are not too dissimilar as mine (approx £2k a year).
@@sultanoftippoo3857 it depends, but I guess on average and considering a car that is really serviced and maintained properly, meaning not in some amateurs garage, the 993 will be cheaper.
I consider my car well serviced and probably on the upper third of the market, still I had far less than 2K a year in service and repair over the last 15 years. Pretty hard to really calculate those things, cause if you own the car for 2 years and your engine explodes, this will set you back 12-13K, but that doesn't really mean 993 running costs are 12-13K in 2 years.
Considering you are in GB and I'm in Germany, plus I'm getting 20% off for parts cause I work for Porsche, this may not be the most fair comparison, but if I have to bet, let's say a kidney, which car is less expensive to run and more bulletproof in the long run I'd say it's an aircooled Porsche. It's not just hype. Yes, parts are almost equally expensive on those cars, but I doubt your Ferrari V8 can do 150K miles without overhaul, not even considering that any aircooled Porsche is much easier to work on than any Ferrari
When you work on them yourself, you can obviously save a ton and really enjoy the best part of owning a 911...great video 📹 👍!
I do my own work and most of what you listed. Working in the garage is rewarding and a big cost savings. The forums, with great amount help, I can attack any project. The oil changes for five vehicles, that keeps me busy alone.
I agree, I do almost all the work on my 85 myself and save a ton and get the satisfaction of doing it. Some of those cost he has done are very high for what they are.
I've owned an 84' for 9 years and my cost of ownership vs yours is drastic. The car needed a full trans service (915), tires and a basic tune up. Over the usage I went through a voltage regulator, new brake kit ,and that's about it. Bought it with 63K and it now has 90+. All in I've spent 30+/- not including shipping or insurance etc. It helps having a good shop and also the know how around cars. But this car has been amazing to own, always there, reliable, everything works, no leaks, great heat (if you know you know). Its one of those cars that I feel like Im not putting enough money into but it always grounds me, and lets me know that it’s happy when I use it.
I’d like to by an 80s 911, but the prices seem so high. How did you go about buying on with decent mileage at a good price?
Some of my happiest times of my adult life were in my 1971 911e and my 1977 911s . Loved those cars would love to have one again someday ….
I've been looking again as well. Drove a 75 Sahara Beige 911S back in the day.
Love your videos and enthusiasm for the cars! Fwiw, we've had our 83 SC for just about 27 years, and it has run about 8-1200 bucks a year over that span (granted, I do everything but clutches myself). Of course, I would be embarrassed to park our car anywhere near any of your 911s ; )
Sounds about right Will. Whenever I buy a car, I always end up putting a lot into it initially to get it up to my standards, even with a solid maintenance history. On my 997 GT3, I put about $6k into it the first year I had it and then another $3500 the next year.
Another great video Will. My experience with my ‘82 is of course, different but the things you have had to do are all pretty normal and standard. Hope the PO had an engine out service included in his costs you mentioned. If not, you should expect to address more oil leaks, clutch, top end etc. Just part of the gate fee to play with these fun Pcars. My all-in costs are a bit more but I have done some much more extensive modifications and updates. I expect that, with the exception of mods, you may have a decent run of time before you have some of those maintenance costs I mentioned above, that should help lower your annual average cost of ownership. Thanks again for sharing the info!
This guy is full of crap. I have a 1986 Porsche 911 Carrera. He may have spent that to get it where he wants it, but to keep it running right and on the road is not even close. I spend maybe $500 a year and I drive mine every day. These cars are made to be driven and the air cooled 911's are easy to maintain.
what a gorgeous example! subscribed and liked. i've caught the bug after going to Germany to take euro delivery of my wife's macan! let me know if you decide to sell!
Will, clearly you are a perfectionist and your cars show that. Man, what a beautiful collection you have. You are truly an enthusiastic owner. Thanks for the sharing your journey with all your glorious examples. Envy...
As kid i grewpup with the G-Series, the car is stunning. don't sell that beauty. I own 96 993 NB. 2n love.
I have a 1987 911 that I bought in 2009 for $14,000. I have spent approximately $10,000 since on tires, shocks, electrical upgrades, clutch, and several maintenance items (all at a shop). I am amazed by how much others spend on what is a relatively simple car. After all the modifications how do you know you are driving a 1980's Porsche?
Well timed purchase!
I just got around to watching this video. Appreciate your openness on the cost of ownership. I really love my 993 but on track for $3k per year in upkeep. In comparison my 997 only needed oil changes over 3 years of ownership. For people getting into the air cooled game it is just good to get prepared for cars that are 25+ years old.
Yes, I tell people to set aside 10% - 20% of the cost of the car for initial deferred maintenance and repairs…and celebrate if you don’t have to spend it 😄
Thanks for sharing the detailed costs, really helpful. I bought a 1993 C2 coupe in September, and I expect a hefty initial bill from the Porsche dealer. But … love these cars!
Great video. But two years of owning are not representative. When you own a special car 10 years or longer, than you really know the costs...
Sure, but this video isn’t about “10 years of running costs,” it’s about my cost of running the car since my purchase.
Thanks for watching!
I think you did pretty good on your price and maintenance and updates. Maintenance just has to be done once it’s done you get the benefit of fresh rubber, fresh front end parts, fresh AC , weatherstripping upholstery. all that’s part of the age of the car no matter what if it’s a Porsche or a Peugeot. Besides we love the beautiful lines of a Porsche and you just have to decide yourself if it’s a priority and you appreciate a classic beauty and you’re willing to allocate your personal cash to maintain it. that’s how I feel.
I do my own work on my Carrera 3.2 where I can and most of the maintenance I can easily do for next to nothing. I repaired my electrical, sunroof, radio, brake flush, fresh air blower, etc for parts only and that's peanuts compared to the cost of labor to put love into the car. These cares were hand by actual humans people using hand tools and can be disassembled and rebuilt in the home garage by the owner in the exact same way. So much easier than modern cars with their cramped engine compartments and pre-built componentry that's not designed to be rebuilt.
Sounds like you’re in a good spot.
Exactly. Its super cheap car to maintain if you can do it your self. The oil service on my 3,2 G50 car is like 150USD. I also changed the seal and velcro strap around roof window, and it was like 17 or 20 EUR.
Thanks for all the detail. It seems as though most of these costs are startup, tuning and customizing to your preference (e.g., swapping out new tires). I expect costs will decrease dramatically going forward. I've owned and self-maintained my '85 for over 25 years now, and am certain it will outlast me and most people on the planet right now.
I tend to agree. The running cost should diminish over time. Will never be zero but should drop.
I've owned an '87 for around 10 years now and SC for the same. Both cars needed engine rebuilds and a host of other things during my ownership, but I've done every bit of it outside setting lash on a new LSD. I think the vast majority of repairs listed here, are ones that most owners can do without special tools, in depth manuals or previous experience. With a bit of effort (like a couple weekends) a very large percentage of the repairs listed could be done with the exception of mounting tires and possibly the paint correction. So for people struggling to find an affordable car in 2023, doing the items listed themselves can be make or break for owning an air cooled car.
I’m sure it’s great working on it. I’m by no means a mechanic but I try to do most of the stuff on my m3. It’s rewarding doing your own maintenance or mods
Great video, appreciate learning about your experience. BTW your garage setup is 💪🏼👍🏻!
Worked on and test drove some Porsches but never got one in my stable. Any Targa 911 (air cooled) would be a dream for me but I know that I would have to know what the car is truly capable of which means a closed track only and well $$$$$ later how often do you get to drive one properly? I have fun on my 2006 Vespa GT 200 scooter at 90+ MPG!
Your video on the subject is graciously sobering as a Porsche dreamer; maybe I can find a cheap 914 somewheres...
I have a dilemma, I have a 991.2 C2 but feel I want a 86-87 G body. I currently lack time and a mechanic to buy a project. May I ask your opinions? Do you feel paying $90-100K plus for a sorted (if in your opinion that is the price for sorted) G body makes sense or will I miss out on the journey/bonding by paying less and having it sorted out myself?
I owned an ‘87 for eight years. Sold it, regrettable lol, for $18,000 more than I paid for it. Cost of ownership, zero.
Hi, Not sure if you still own the Porsche, But I'm new to the Wilmington NC area and I'm in the market for a 1984-1989 911. If you're considering selling or know of a well maintained example I would appreciate if you would consider me. Let me know and let's talk . Thanks
$11,295 over the course of 24 months. An average of $470 per month. An average of $108.61 per week.
An aveage of $21.72 per day based on a five day week.
The 911 is the poor man's 928. Sorry - I gotta call balls and strikes. the 928 was European "Car" of the Year 1979. No other sports car including the 911 has ever won "Car" of the year. The 928 has won 2 production car land speed record at Bonneville (1986 and 2020) - the 911 has exactly won none. Even 911 enthusiast Magnus Walker has started his 928 collection - its Now or Never for the 928 still the biggest Bang for the Buck in classic Porsches. Singer/RWB/RUF could easily reimagine 928s - its just a matter of time before someone specializes in customizing and outlawing 928s - There is no substitute. The 911 Killer's time has come!
Hi cuz from 🇬🇧 As an ex-SC Sport, 930 Turbo and 964 -4,
l can totally agree with you on everything you’re saying 🙂
1986 manual listed for $78,000 with 150K miles
To expensive
Thanks for this.
I've a 1996 993 C2 iris blue metallic, 66,000 miles, 6-speed manny tranny, varioram, LSD. No CEL, no oil leaks. Multi-show full-concours winner. I do my own maintenance. I'm never selling it.
Someone is selling a 1980 911sc with 60k miles for 9k and idk if I should buy it as it is stick shift, would be my first stick shift car, (I have driven and drive stick shifts quite often at work.)
May i ask were are you located …..i am a owner of a 1982 911 sc coup….i am looking to sell….tying to find the true value….it is in immaculate condition….always garage kept….any info would be appreciated 12:48
ps $47000 think how much a new car is without it being as beautiful. Breaking down the want vs need would make a big difference. Oil changes, tires etc are normal on any car. my 1992 hasnt cost me much but would have to go look over the last 30 years. it is about 91,000 miles on it.
How much fuss does registration and insurance cost yall? I know to many variables based on state and driving record.
I drove an '87 3.2 for years. It wasn't expensive to maintain at all. The biggest cost was a new set of shoes every second year.
not sure if you represent an average as your car is pristine. like concourse level, not the weekend car. i think costs could be half if owners are not picky of each little details, especially changing exhaust..
but you were lucky ot get it for that price
now is worth 120k imo (if on actuion at premimu firm)
What a great source for honest ownership advice for anyone thinking of buying a Porsche!
If you truly love a car you don't let anybody else touch it. I'd be doing all the work myself. There really is no excuse these days in the age of the internet, all the information is at your fingertips.
Great upkeep, but most of that work could have been much cheaper doing on your own. Part of the enjoyment is tending to your car yourself, learning every nook and cranny. I get the purist Porsche snobs that have to have everything documented by a certified Porsche mechanic, but the cost cost outlined in the video seems a bit misleading bc of that. I think you jave 2 price upkeep categories, you fall in the "have other people do the work" category. Im too broke to be in that category for my Porsche lol.
Very informative, Will. I am still in the sorting phase of my 88 3.2 purchased in September. To date, about $1600 spent and I don’t have the bill for front sway bar bushings to cure an annoying squeak. Mileage is similar to your 86. They say you can’t put a price on happiness but sounds like $4-6k per year is a fair estimate.
You’ll get out a lot more cheaply as you won’t do the duplicate jobs I did.
Thank you!!!! I'm 21 and have a beautiful 996, however I'm in love with yours. But the amount of work and customization (favorable mods) makes it extremely hard to even consider selling
How much do you estimate cost of ownership would be for an individual that does all their own auto body and mechanical work?
Much, much less 😂
Thankyou ,after owning BMW's and Merc, I have just lost my interest in ever owning one of these.
La makina más bella y perfecta que diseño el hombre. Preciosamente perfecto.
Alot of this stuff you could and should have done the work yourself. Listening to your expenses alot of the wo😊rk was adjustments and maintenance that you should have done yourself and save a ton of money while also actually learning about the car . Only thing is you make have to do a little bit of thinking and 😊got your hands a little dirty
Hi there, I do own a 3.2 in the Uk. A great car, I do believe in keeping on top of the maintenance. But the cost will always spiral when you get into the world of mods. But much respect for making these vids.
It sounds like I don't want an old Porsche. I want a new Porsche with a 930 body kit 🤣
I think now that the three cars all have been sorted out the 993 and 964 will be less expensive to maintain than the red 1986 if they are driven the same amount of road miles in the long term from now and on...
911's are nice and the costs here seem o.k. too
But going out driving with a bunch of other 911 owners is a cost too high.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Your maintainance costs are quite similar to mine. It's always a project of repairing and rebuilding to me after purchasing. After this first period the normal costs of maintaining are usually decreasing to about 2k to3k a year.
I could see that being the case. The mods and sampling different tires will drive it up but aren’t necessary. Thanks for watching.
that cost could be cut down in half if you fixed some it yourself, pretty easy. fluid changes and sunroof seals and and door fitment. come on!!!
Man, I got crushed buying mine in this market. Mine needs a TON of work - 86 911 3.2 as well.
That’s ok. Try to forget the money and just fall in love with the car. I got hurt on my 964 when I bought it (transmission issue - needed a rebuild) but I’m over it now and loving the car.
I love the stance on the car. Can you share the front and rear tire size and also if the car has been lowered. I have a 1988 Carrera coupe and I want to make it look just like yours. Thanks in advance.
Thinking of buy one. Conv 911 s0ft top for $15000..got to see next week
You should learn to work on your cars yourself
It’s not my forte. I have tried and I lack the mentality to do it. Could I if I tried really hard to learn? Sure. But I don’t really want to, and will leave it up to the experts.
Like those Tag Heuer pieces! I have to get a set for mine. Oh yeah car is great too, do not sell
Funny my ‘86 has a rear reflector that more a ghosted look and not black.
I own a 1980 911 SC In the 22 years I have owned this car it never cost me that much money yearly. I purchased the car 22 years ago for $11,000 had the engine rebuilt for $10,000 On average I would say no more than $100 a year to maintain.
You win 👍🏼😄
The VW Beetle is the base line for all air cooled 911's. The costs should be the same but.....
@Rennthusiast thanks for the great videos and your transparency on owning one of the beauties ⚡️🐐
About $8000 is elective or low level garage mechanic stuff.
I'm thinking about buying one last car before I die I have a Corvette 04 never put a tune up on it
I own a 1988 911 coupe red/black 31,000K absolutely flawless. I paid top dollar Approx. $100,000 The car needs nothing it is really great. I think in my opinion your car is a $70,000 to $80,000 after what you have done to it and with the service history etc.
Your a baller
I like how you’re developing the channel Will - it’s getting better and better.
My, I guess I’ve been very lucky. The amount of work your cars have required is an order magnitude above my 964. I’ve owned the car for 10 years, driven it 120K miles and ball-park the maintenance costs at $4 - 6K per year.
In 2016 - 2018, at 186K miles, we did a major resto-mod on the car, that’s far beyond the $4 - 6K amount. It was elective, so I hold that separate.
Admittedly, I haven’t added up all the numbers as you have; and I’m not sure I would want to, I think it would decrease my enjoyment of the car.
We’ve bantered this idea before, but I think it’s really significant who has owned and cared for (or not) a car before you become its steward. When you buy a classic car, in addition to whatever provenance the car may have, you’re also buying a piece of the previous owners’ lives and preferences.
For my own Mercedes E Class
Per Year Annually
Service maintenance £1,000
Fuel £2,500
MOT test £50
Tires £300
Insurance £600
Road tax £200
Totals £4,650 per year
Average per month £387.50
Average per week £89.42
I live in the UK
Second hand Mercedes E class bought for approx. £11,000. Therefore I am spending approx 42% of the purchase price on annual running costs. This does seem high and expensive.
My biggest cost is Fuel and I put approx £100 of diesel per fortnight, approx £2,500 fuel per year, mostly commuting to work.
The car returns around 40-45 MPG which I think is very decent for such a large luxury car.
Great video, AGAIN! Thanks for the transparency. You need to bear in mind that you had to retread some expenses due to choices you regretted, such as the tires and exchange of the exhaust system. So, you're probably more in line with the prior owner and more reasonable than you think.
...but in which city you did all this? in big cities i wonder if it is much more expensive
I accidentally won a bid on BAT today for an ‘89 Targa 3.2 G50 with a SSI exhaust, recent engine out service, 83k miles… I dropped $74k on it 🤦♂️
lol nice work!
Having an 86 like yours. For me mastering the 915 gearbox can’t be under estimated.
Agree. So engaging
Experiencing sellers remorse. Sold my lovely -94 C2 in PTS Amethyst this week. Agreed to the deal solely as it was the original owner looking to buy it back and he had all these stories of it being his daily for years and driving his daughters to the kindergarten in it. He even had the original invoice for the car. Got to spend a fantastic day with this gentleman extraordinaire but just realized I’m NEVER going to be able to get myself such a nice 993 with that kind of provenance and maintenance history ever again. Even the 15-% premium I made on it over 4 months of ownership doesn’t really make up for not having the Amethyst jewel in my garage anymore💜🥲
Keep the faith. You’ll find another one one day that will make parting with this one worth it. You’ve earned some amazing karma points for selling it back to the original owner.
@@davidjaxonmusic 🙏🏻 Also sold my Macadamia metallic manual box -10 C2 in September through a indie specialist. Made ~8% premium on that one, but my god it was a sweet ride. Bone stock, 6spd base Carrera. Having only a 2-car garage is troublesome when owning 4 Porsches in an arctic climate. I’m cheering for climate change😬
That’s rough bc I can totally guess how you’re feeling right now. That guy is a lucky dude….I don’t think he could have pried that car out of my possession. Keep looking. Something will come around.
@@Rennthusiast having a new order (first ever new Porsche) on the way and an outlawed -90 964C4 plus the daily driver Taycan, I both need the space for it, although I’ve got 2 places in a storage some 1,5 hrs drive away, but one also need the time to use all of them and especially the time (and money) to keep them all in pristine working condition. Having pulled the engine on the 964 and a major overhaul on that one, parting with the 993 C2 was the sensible thing to do, although I was contemplating just keeping all 4 of them. Having a couple in storage, the wife wouldn’t know either😇
Wow! That is incredibly high repair and maintenance cost at almost $400 per month average. That’s getting into Ferrari and Lamborghini expected maintenance cost.
I’ve owned six Porsches in the last 10 years, and I can say, without a doubt I have spent less than half on all of them combined as you have on this one car.
So I don’t know if you’re happy or upset about your maintenance cost, but that is drastically higher than average for a classic.
Guards Red, Fuchs wheels….yes, please. Nice car.
Well I was thinking about owning a 911 but I think I will pass.
beautiful car but ouch! the maintenace is costly
That is a really good price total overall 👌🏽👌🏽
Will, all things being equal, what are your thoughts or experiences regarding ownership of a Turbo vs NA?
Which generation of turbo?
I found my 997.1 turbo to just be too good (and tempting) for street use.
I have never owned a 930 but have driven a couple and they feel more substantial than their corresponding NA brethren.
I think there are plus’s and minus’s to each, but I do like the 930’s looks. That said, the ones I have driven are sluggish down low…but when the boost comes on there exhilarating.
Big picture for me, though…I am an NA guy. In fairness, I do own a 992 Carrera T (that I LOVE) which has the 3.0 flat six with smaller turbos on it…but it makes power very similarly to a NA car.
Those cost are for those who can't work (or don't want to) at all on the car.... Holding antique cars, it worths learning to work on those..... you'll know your car and you'll save a lot of money.... But it's a choice....
Or it’s a skill issue…
How the fook can you claim “this care gets USED” when you put 8K miles in TWO years? Lame.
How much do you use yours?
Thanks for sharing the costs Will. I didn’t expect to hear what you paid for the car itself so that was cool
Someday in the future, I hope to own a 911 from 89 (My dream car). My uncle used to own one after he begged my grandfather to buy one for him during his start for college. He made the horrible decision later on by selling that car and buying a jeep for his at the time gold digging girlfriend. After he sold the 911 and got her the jeep, she later dumped him. My grandfather has not to this day forgiven him for a selling to 911. I've asked my grandfather if he has forgiven him and in his words, "I love him, but no." I told my grandfather that someday I will own a black 911, the same one my uncle had and he thought it was a great idea.
All that work you could have done yourself.
Such a gorgeous car! The ownership of an air cooled Porsche requires plenty of cash and/or a solid mechanical knowledge to maintain the vehicle yourself. There is no real cheap way to own one and to have it run and look as good as your vehicle. You need cash and/or skills once you put one in your garage.
I would suggest you need both. I did almost all of my work which left more of my budget available to buy more “stuff” for the mods and updates that I wanted to do.
Agree
Hey Allen, I had never wrenched on a car before, other than an oil change, but I started doing all sorts of maintenance on my 1979 911. UA-cam has incredible teachers at your fingertips. I rebuilt a front brake caliper, a window regulator, overhauled sloppy shifting issues by replacing bushings and other parts. Yes, I got sweaty palms a few times, but as a newbie with initially very little knowledge, I started getting more and more comfortable working on it. Granted, it was not a numbers matching, high value car. It scared me at first, because this is a “Porsche “ I’m working on, but I felt it to be a very rewarding process and I saved lots of $$ along the way. So I don’t think people should be overly intimidated to take on some maintenance issues.
Amen to that! 🙏
That’s nothing
Yep
just a question, do you take this to a mechanic? or do you do the maintenance. i think that if you are doing these yourself than you are overpaying for materials.
I have to outsource.
What size wheels are on your car F/R?
The cost to insure must be more than the average car or SUV.
Great car and reasonable maintenance including upgrades.
Just find a good mechanic, and put his kids through college. (Chump)
Are you calling me a chump?
Absolute beaut! Great colour,great look. Great engine.
Jump to 10:33 for the money shot. You’re welcome …
If I had to pay for all of this, I wouldn’t be able to afford our three Porsches. Luckily I am able to do all of the our work on our cars.
That’s a huge advantage
For whatever reason my brain just doesn’t work that way so I have to outsource it
Dayam! 56k I would gladly hand that over for this beautiful Porsche. Great video
Great content - thanks !
Your experiences is almost exactly the same as mine. In 2017 I had bought a 1987 Camera 3.2 slant nose, Purchased at $49,000 and, have put about 10,000 into it. Interestingly, just put it up for sale this weekend.
Philip Prosapio
Little Falls Minnesota
Hey Philip Prosapio,
where can I find your offering?
Hi Kevin,
Have the car at Porsche St Paul. I just ordered a 2022 Panamera 4 S ehybrid and plan on trading in my 2018 Panamera 4 ehybrid and having them sell the Slantnose. Interesting that I might still owe them money in the end! The frustrating part is 5 to 6 months wait time on the new car. If your anywhere nearby, can check out the Slantnose in about a week or so.
Phil
@@philipprosapio2295 ah that would be great.
unfortunately i lived in germany. therefore it will not be possible for me. :(
but I hope someone else can be happy. I would have been very happy :)
The owner of an 86 coupe I can say I’m happy I’m able to do 99% of the work on it. Including a full engine rebuild.
Why did you get a wheel alignment with both tire changes?
This is a really old video but as I recall I knocked it out of alignment between changes.
Make the volume louder in your videos. I wanted to watch this earlier today but I had to wait until I can come home and run it through a bluetooth speaker at full volume to here at normal volume
Older video. The newer ones have better audio. Thanks for watching.