Everything I've read about the power and advamced construction materials needed to safely and efficiently create such a large vacuum, along with all the safety redundancies you'd have to put in place make this seem super unlikely on any mass level.
Only way to get new anything in the US is to put a dictator in charge. That would stop all the parasites from suing over every imagined profit scheme. But only for infrastructure, otherwise China.
@@deathsinger1192 Because we already know the answer 8 YEAR AGO before watching this video. If you are aware of certain accident involving a airplane plug door fly off from the plane, then this will happen. If someone shoot the loop from the outside and a capsule with people were to travel the affected area, they will be the one sucking into the hole and came out as a human tooth paste.
Musk's Hyperloop was more about derailing California HSR than ever about building a true system --and it worked. Even now that Hyperloop One has declared bankruptcy, CaHSR detractors (who probably have never taken public transport) say what we really need is "Maglev".
vacuum-train is well over a *CENTURY* old (hence why musk couldn't try to patent the idea) and it had already been long ago abandoned FOR A REASON in favor of practical things like high-speed and maglev rail, which work GREAT and America should just get that but scumbags like Musk bribe politicians and swindle morons with this scifi escapist fantasy crap just so he can keep selling crappy cars... this clown musk inherited blood-money and invested in paypal from which he got fired for technical incompetence, he has literally invented nothing in his life
there is a company in poland, that has a different approach to hyperloop: Nevomo. they are developing a system to turn regular trains into maglevs. step 1: linear motor between the rails. step 2: maglev system that takes over above 150km/h. step 3: concrete enclosure. step 4: vacuum the beauty of their system is that every step is compatible to regular rail traffic, and step 2 already allows for 550km/h (depending on the curves of the track). maybe they will never create a real hyperloop, but the ability to upgrade regular high speed rails to maglevs is interesting aswell.
Well if we're ignoring all the massive flaws that would lead to explosive compression and kill everyone in the system sure, the hyperloop is totally possible. I love how it was going to run through the desert with no expansion joints because metal totally doesn't change shape when heated.
Things getting nearer every day: 1. A working Hyperloop 2. Our sun going nova 3. The heat death of the universe Only two of the above will definitely happen.
Actually, probably only one. Last time I checked, our sun isn't quite massive enough to go nova. It's the variety that will expand as it's fuel depletes and become a brown dwarf (I think ) as the outer layers blow off.
As a resident of California, let me disabuse you with the idea that the high speed rail project has collapsed. While it has been embattled, and there are still challenges ahead, they are just about to finish a significant section I think about a quarter of the entire distance, and it’s supposed to go further. Now whether it’ll actually get finished or not is is still an open question, but nobody who is involved, in it has given up, and none of the projects that are in process have been abandoned.
Just use high speed rail. The cost of building these things will be so much greater and they won't really be better. A highspeed train can already cover distances of 40km in under 10mins there is not a really a need to do it in 5. it is hard to estimate the cost, but a giant vacuum tube the size of a train will certainly be more expensive then two sticks of steel 1.5m apart.
Musk's brain is so smooth he even claimed it was cheaper to build this than regular high speed rail or maglev, despite the thing literally being a maglev inside a tube, so you clearly have the cost of the mag lev as a minimum on top of having it run in these tubes at near vacuum.
I'm all for any kind of technology that doesn't use fossil fuels and can transport me long distances quickly. The hyperloop is one of them, but if current high speed rail can do it just as well, I'll settle for that. It's just a matter of ceasing the senseless arguments about the costs.
@@bluegold1026 It's not just about the costs, it's about the feasibility. The Hyperloop is just a marketing scam from Musk to divert attention and funds from technology that already exists and works well (high speed rail) so that people would keep buying his Tesla cars in the meantime.
@@bluegold1026 We had electric trains (that are more ecological that hyperloop, because it needs MUCH less energy) for .... a century basically. So normal and high speed rail ALREADY are much better than any hyperloop.
That’s the thing, they’re not meant to ever be built. This idea is meant to jangle in front of stupid politicians like a set of keys to keep them from investing in real viable things like high speed rail so dickhead billionaires can continue to sell their cars in the meantime. It’s a political project meant to scam the public.
I laughed out loud at the proposal to have a depressurized tube *under the sea* ... nothing quite like making it even more inconceivable to have such a tube than surrounding the tube by the immense pressures of water.
Maybe it's the newest way of making money. Large scale under the sea implosions. Purchase your one way ticket today. Nothing crushes the vacuum tube like sudden water displacement.
The difference between a tube withstanding and external pressure of 80 atmospheres with an internal pressure of 1 atmosphere, and the same tube withstanding the same external pressure whilst containing a perfect vacuum is minimal. The concept has problems but that ain't one of them...
@tomj819 you only think of 1 bar, in comparison to pressure. Difference is that you have a vacuum, even a small leak will draw the surrounding fluid in so fast that nothing inside can escape. If you have 1 bar inside, then the external pressure will eventually be equalised. That makes a huge difference.
@@jantschierschky3461 1) You think anyone planning this tunnel would even contemplate a single-walled design? 2) Do you know what the depth of the Baltic Sea is? 3) Relative pressure is relative. The difference between 5bar external and 1bar internal, and 4bar external and 0bar internal is zero.
@tomj819 Again, pressure is one thing. As I said, you have a leak, everyone is dead inside. Have you ever seen a vacuum container getting crushed ? I know how deep the Baltic is, I spent enough time on it.
It is virtually impossible to get the hyperloop system to work safely in real life. Great idea in sci fi novels, not so much in real life. It won't ever be implemented commercially. It's a complete pipe dream!
well said. Just maintaining the vaccuum for that amount of volume is impossible. Not to mention the construction costs simply quadruple regular rail construction( something most countries cannot afford as is ) The newest skinksaen is getting closer and closer to hyperloop speeds with the recent model topping 600kph. So in the future ,maglevs will be doing 8-900 kph with no vaccuum tube needed.
@@johntheux9238 A welded chunk of steel isn't quite the same as maintaining a near vacuum over tens or hundreds of miles. It takes one idiot with a gun, a rock, a car etc to do something to compromise that to quickly destroy the entire thing, or a large section of it. Explosive decompression is rather violent.
@@TalesOfWar Big cargo ships have their hulls over 10 meters underwater. They can survive one atmosphere of pressure difference on a way bigger radius. All you need are stiffeners and stringers to prevent buckling from the negative pressure difference.
I think the biggest difference between cars, boats, trains, planes, etc. and the hyperloop is the basic concept of *where* they travel. The other forms of transportation might've been tricky to figure out at first, but where they traveled once they were operational (e.g. across the ground, in the sky, on the water) was simple. The hyperloop, on the other hand, doesn't sound like a particularly complex vehicle to figure out relative to what we already have, but where it travels seems preposterously impractical for a litany of reasons to anyone who has ever worked with or learned about creating and maintaining a vacuum.
I love Adam Something's brutal debunk of HyperloopTT. Basically it's just dead on arrival, because you can chain those pods, put them on rails, call it a train, and forget about these extremely expensive techno shenanigans. Hyperloop as proposed there has the obvious limitations of capacity, plus the total inability to route traffic around a broken part of the track. It's fancy if stuff go really fast, but that's hardly the main issue to solve with logistics. Those same containers have been weeks at the sea already, and they're sitting on the shoreline because processing them further is slower than offloading them from a ship which Hyperloop would do nothing about. The proposed system would make sense if you could shoot goods from China to all the way to Europe or U.S.
@@glockfanboy4635 2021 Texas, 2003 the North East, 1996 the West Coast. This year, of course, Texas asked people to reduce the use of electricity - during a record heat wave - or there would be rolling blackouts.
You mean debunked by thunderf00t? That guy doesn't even know the difference between a soda can and a vacuum chamber. Vacuum chambers have stiffeners to protect the walls against buckling loads.
@@ddpwe5269 I don't care about Musk I'm just saying it works. There are ships floating all over the ocean whose hull can survive similar pressure (10 meters of water is equal to one atmosphere) over a similar volume (600'000 cubic meters is equal to a 100 miles long vacuum chamber)
Yes. No one cares about the strength of the tube. We can all agree that the tube will hold a vacuum and remain strong. Our concern is that it would be near impossible to make such a long tube have a vacuum as our current vacuum tubes are tiny in comparison, and that if your train had an accident you are now exposed to that vacuum
Why not? Welded rails work great at scale without any issue with thermal expansion despite the lack of joints. I don't see why a vacuum chamber would not.
@@johntheux9238 Won't the vacuum chambers need to be very structurally strong, to face the pressure ? Having them expand and contract won't jeopardize that ? Also, even without that to worry, it's still massively expensive. The maglevs are considerably easier and cheaper, for ... 40 years already ? And yet you barely have any around the world. Because they're that expensive. The hyperloop is another magnitude more expensive. If that 3rd world country of USA would actually have wanted to have fast travel between its cities, it would have made 200mph/300kmph trains already. It's 50 years technology already. Now we're getting close to 400kmph already, without maglev. Considering the security checks and check in and so on, except for the absolute farthest distances (coast to coast), high speed rail is on par or faster than airplanes, since you can simply arrive at the station 5 minutes before the train leaves. And you don't have the limitations of the airplaine, like no liquids or max 99Wh laptop batteries and so on. And even for coast to coast, you can take the train over night and sleep in it for around 8 hours. Ok, it might need something like 10 to 12 hours. Still, with 8 hours sleeping, it will be like 2 to 4 hours of missing productive hours. Still on par with airplanes.
@@johntheux9238the energy requirements to draw and maintain a vacuum, given the fact that you have to have reach points at every station at least make such a system pointless.
It's a well known fact at this point that Musk only started the hyperloop hype because he didn't want America to start the new train project which would make his cars less desirable.
The number of reasons it's not viable are massive. For one, the amount of energy takes to draw and maintain vacuum in hundreds of miles of the tunnel almost certainly exceeds the Energy savings
I wonder about this one myself it can be tough to maintain a vacuum in something as simple as an industrial chiller how is this going to be maintained?
Simon we are so far of from having this as a commercial concept that in the future when and if we will have something that travels that fast over land, it will have verry little to do with what we now consider "hyperloop". Think of what the modern smart phone is to the early startreck communicator fundamentally it transmits and receives audio but it does so much more yet so much less then its SFY counterpart. Furthermore if your interested in the topic lookup how difficult is to hold even partial vacuum in a large chamber
The main problem I see at least with any of these large projects aiming to spend a lot of money in order to move people very fast over large distances, is that you can negate the need for such a thing by either removing the requirement for the people to travel in the first place (remote work, telepresence, etc), or just using existing methods and accepting the travel time, use the money to make the journey more comfortable, provide good internet on the trains etc. Both of these come at a fraction of the price, are things we already know how to do, and require no engineering megaprojects such as continent-spanning vacuum tubes or new materials.
Halbach arrays is just a special pattern to orient magnets that results in most of the magnetic force coming out of one side of the array and less on the other. Suffice it to say, this is really useful. I'm no expert, but it is entirely unsurprising that such a thing is used on extremely large projects that use a lot of magnets. Honestly, IDK why it would even be mentioned in anything other than technical documents. It's strikes me as weird that Hyperloop TT would do more than include a footnote on Halbach arrays on promotional materials targeted to the layman. Sure, it's a cool factoid, but it's like saying race cars use higher octane than regular cars. Maybe to sound smart and look like they're saving money or being extra high performance?
The only reason Musk even suggested this was to kill off the California High Speed Rail project. He knew the hype would make governments around the world would lose interest for HSR and move over to the idea of Hyperloop, before realising the whole thing is a waste of fucking time as a mass transit system, even if it was remotely practical to build (note, it isn't). He just wants to sell more shittily build cars.
Sir, since you got this wrong from the start - vacuum trains are a more than hundred years old science fiction idea - long before Elon Musk´s father was born, I am not sure whether it makes sence to follow this to the end. However, here are some very simple reasons why this concept has no practical value: 1. Economics, 2. Technical issues and 3. Security. As for no. 1 the more complex, the more expensive is a system. Cost for building and operation will be skyrocketing against any other system. One would have to build this tube more or less straight over land that is earned by someone, with a supply road underneath and service stations all 20 km with spare part warehouses and service crews and, and and...endless costs of operation. As for no.2 to maintain a medium vacuum in a tube of 3-4m diameter, there will be a massive amout of vacuum pumps required all requireing constant maintenance and energy. You must be able to seal this tube by airlocks to get people in an off the train and you have to deal with temperature differences and many more things to keep a vacuum upright in a chamber of this size. And last but not least: no. 3 Security. There need to be an option to evacuate the passengers in case of havoc or train failure. That would require to have airlocks every 3-5 km on the route or flood the whole system. Not to speak about the perfect terrorist target such a concept would be. However, lets for one moment think all these technicals and security issues could be resolved. There are already solutions in place which provide a better, cheaper and more effective and secure solution of transport already: The "train" and the "plane". There is no advantage over these by a "Hyperloop" an Hyperloop is just another Elon Musk bullshit concept and everybody who waste one cent for this project is completely mad and out of his mind.
So, this isn’t sarcasm. This video was published after the Hyperloop investments dropped out, meaning there’s no excuse for it. Even rail enthusiasts think Hyperloop is stupid. Hint: the problem isn’t the technology that needs development, it’s the practical and legal problems.
Mag lev trains are borderline unviable and are only made possible with heavy state subsidies. A hyper loop is a mag lev made orders of magnitude more complex, expensive and dangerous. We will never see a functional hyperloop for the public in this lifetime, I'd bet my life on it.
You often do good work, but not so on this topic. Hyperloop is a cartoon concept put forth by a cartoon CEO in order to distract Californians from supporting high speed rail. The concept has taken on more hype-life than I’m sure Musk first imagined it would, but in the end there’s absolutely no cost effective or practical way to pull this off, not to mention the enormous safety issues. Time to move on.
I don't think Californians need any help whatsoever from outside to turn against the _current_ high speed rail project in their state, their own state government has done a perfectly fine job on that already
The hyperloop is basically just a variant of a vactrain, which was first proposed in 1799, so it doesn't seem fair to credit a non-scientist businessman like Musk with its invention
And now its dead. You know, I'm no engineer, however I could not accept this thing becoming a reality, the logistics of maintaining a vacuum in say a 2 meter wide 10km long tube was way out there as far as I was concerned.
Instead of wasting everyone's time with a hyperloop on Earth... just design one for use on the Moon. Where you don't have to worry about maintaining a vacuum... though its basically a mag-lev train at that point.
Sooo, was the owner of this channel paid to regurgitate mindless hyperloop PR, or is he just completely detached from scientific reality? Mind you, Hyperloop One's just shut down, failing to reach every single one of its much touted goals.
I don't think Japan has maglev trains. China has a line or two in operation, all others are prototypes. It's just way too expensive. The point of Hyperloop is low cost.
@@andrasbiro3007 "low cost..." Then why are all Hyperloop operational cost estimates 10X that of regular high speed trains and 5X that of airliners? Oh boy.
Six operational commercial maglev systems can be found worldwide, with one in Japan, two in South Korea, and three in the big C. The most extensive among the three within the big C is the impressive -Shanghai-Transrapid-project-, accomplished in a mere two and a half years at a cost of ¥10 billion (US$1.33 billion). It stretches across a 30.5 km (18.95 mi) track and boasts an impressive top operational commercial speed of 431 km/h (268 mph). Consequently, it has held the title of the world's fastest train in regular commercial service since its inauguration in April 2004.
megacringe megaproject, dumb investors, trend chasing media outlets (and youtube channels). unrelated; can anyone tell me all of this dudes channels so i can block them? getting tired of seeing his face with a different name every week or so. very low effort content farm
BNSF is building a new rail hub in Barstow, CA to handle the rail traffic from the Ports of LA and Long Beach. As the crow flies that's 108 Miles (174Km). How would you depressurize a tube in excess of 108 miles long that's big enough to handle a 9'X10'X40' 34 Ton Shipping Container?
I suspect you wouldn't. 108 miles is a relatively short distance when operating at high speeds. Freight does not need to move that fast. Why send containers to an inland hub faster than they can actually be sorted? If conventional rail, HSR or not is not fast enough for those containers then Maglev would be more than fast enough. Absolute zero justification for a Hyperloop in this application. Besides, people never seem to realize exactly how large a pod would need to be to carry a typical shipping container. The diameter of the pod itself would likely dwarf conventional rail vehicles. The tubes would be massive structures. Not just heavy and expensive but unsightly. They won't be the dainty things in Musk's bullshit white paper.
The maintainance headache of trying to maintain even a partial vacuum on such a large scale would be near impossible. You would need hundreds or thousands of vacuum pumps along the length of thevtube.
Just as there are thousands and even millions of wheels, nuts, screws, servos, in a large device. And yet these devices are still working, and even get larger and larger. Supertankers, SpaceX rockets. Bullet trains. Microprocessors.
@@othmanskn The problem isn't what you mention. It is that the pressures are enormous and structural integrity is very tenuous. Unless you want to build beyond all economic reason.
@@kentl7228 All subjective statements that are meaningless. Bullet trains and Supersonic jets also suffer the same problems but Bullet trains are getting more and more. Supersonic jets are widely used in the military and they even upgrade to hypersonics. Space flights used to suffer the same subjective criticisms, but they are launching more tourist flights. Not to mention reusable rockets. Air and space travels are few in comparison to mass Transportations and yet you dare to conclude that vacuum tunnels are uneconomical.
I'm an 80s kid. When we were school they asked to draw pictures of the future. 1 thing we all had in them was flying cars. Im still waiting on the flying cars!!
@@KyleRhoades7 Are you living in China? Rail technology is low utilization unless you have packed civilians like sardines into a high density environment. 15 minute cities are tyrannically totalitarian.
Bro, there are *SO MANY* problems with maintaining a (near) vacuum along a super massive tunnel - the core idea of the "hyperloop". Maintaining a supermassive tunnel with a constant vacuum is insanely *insanely* expensive and difficult. Even with super boring traditional high speed rail that just sits on normal tracks, it's *already* extremely expensive and requires a ton of maintenance... now, jump that up by 100x and you are starting to get an idea of how expensive and difficult an actual working hyperloop over 100+km long would be. It's just not happening within this century.
Sustaining a low pressure environment in a closed system is about as difficult as running a refrigerator compressor. And rails support nothing. It is all of the thousands of tons of Earth, gravel, wood and concrete that must be quarried, processed delivered, placed, graded, compacted, quality controlled, inspected, redone, and surveyed before the rail is placed. And after it is used a year, the whole thing needs to be realigned and ground to fit. Which means rail is rarely used full speed. And the rails will expire. Or manufacture the columns and pipe in a factory; truck them to the sight, align, instal and adjust them to spec. Monitor and adjust their alignment over time. Imagine the work that goes into building a road vs installing the top rail on a fence.
The sheer amount of power you would need to depressurise the massive volume of space would defeat the object of hyperloop even if you can make it work. Each time you open up the gate or even many gates you have to pull the air back out. It doesn't take long for the atmosphere to enter the vacuum.
a system of floodgates could be implemented to speed up the process, think of it as a plane, you actually have to spend a buch of time to get off of it, unlike for example the underground which is just a door opening.
Not to mention the continuous depressurizing every time a pod enters the tube and leaves the tube. This will also cause a slow down as each pod has to wait for the airlock to equalize pressure every entry and exit.
This is one of those technologies that would change the world if it were to become practical and cheap, but nothing I have seen so far regarding the research and development tells me this is not going anywhere but possibly a very expensive prototype that no one ends up using for anything beyond proof of concept.
No it wouldn't change the world. It doesn't offer any advantage significant enough compared to existing solution to transportation problem, so even if the tech was feasible and (relatively) cheap to produce the cost of building the infrastructure and maintenance alone makes it unappealing.
This isn't a new idea. It was mooted in science fiction as long ago as the 1920s when vacuum message tubes were a feature of sophisticated offices. Mr Musk has also apparently experimented with Heinlein's rolling road concept. Apparently he read similar science fiction to my childhood literary diet and is busily trying to make Heinlein 's future come true. We can only hope he's not a judge dredd fan as well.
That's true but lots of ideas are thought up in science fiction long before they are put into practical use. That's just how it goes. Indeed this is sort of the whole point of science fiction
Hyperloop is basically a special kind of train line with all the advantages/disadvantages that come with it (faster than cars, but needing a special track etc). Right now trains are way, way cheaper than hyperloop: a sealed tunnel is inherently more expensive than a rail line. So for hyperloop to become viable, it needs some big advantage over rail, and the only thing I can think of is speed. It needs to be much, much faster than high speed rail (300-500km/h). Perhaps that is possible but makes it much harder to pull off. For freight, speed doesn't really matter that much: if ships are fast enough, then certainly regular trains are fast enough. I can't see how hyperloop can have an advantage here. To move people, I believe maglev will be much more viable (see the new line in Japan for example that runs at about 500km/h) - even if maglev itself is rather expensive. In the end, it all comes down to economics. And for almost all the cases where hyperloop is suggested, a regular (or high speed) train line makes much more economic sense.
Fully agree, but this is a fun hypothetical journey. One day I would love to travel the world at high speed, because I am sick and disabled, and transport is so exhausting and makes me so sore and sick. A high speed train would do that very nicely for me! I could pop to a neighbouring country, grab some yummy specialty foods, enjoy the views and language, and then pop home for an evening meal and time to rest properly.
This is funny timing, just yesterday I watched the Sideprojects vid from 6 months ago - Some MORE of the World's Most Useless Megaprojects - and Hyperloop was one of them!
The whole concept was devised by Elon Musk to stall the building of California High-speed rail. He has even admitted it. Musk wanted a system where his Teslas could drive into the Hyperloop pod and be transported. He didn't like the idea of people not driving his products, so he used this Hyperloop BS to throw a gear in the works of High speed rail.
The point is that in vacuum trains can move much faster with minimal power consumption. The latter is important too if you want to be sustainable. And using air instead of magnets is just simpler and vastly cheaper. First maglev prototypes were built many decades ago, and they still not caught on. That's a bad omen for the technology.
One big problem os HSR is that the alignment has to be very straight, with very large turning radiuses, a relatively flat gradients due to the speeds. You cant use existing highway or conventional rail corridors. Aside from more tunnels and more bridges, the expropriation and stakeholder process is a nightmare in many developed countries that in theory have the money and passanngers to pay for the ticket. Thats why some countries like China can do lots, others like UK fail to do. And Hyperloop would be much faster, meaning much straighter. You are gonna hit so many phisical and legal obstacles. Even going below ground
You don't actually need to provide a complete vacuum or get very close. Just removing significant air resistance is the point. And using it for freight really would be a good idea, especially to help decongest ports and cities.
The problem is the limited space for air molecules to move. Even if the vacuum is 90% there are enough molecules that would quickly compress and cause resistance and heat. There are a few good explanations I’ve seen on YT. I think thunderfoot had one explaining this problem.
The problem is in that "significant", anything not close enough to total vacuum would be significant in a confined space. Also the lack of transportation capacity of any of these project tells me that even if it worked as intended, it wouldn't bring any solution to cities and ports congestion, the real solution to these is in city planning, no in any one piece of new tech.
The great part of this application is how quiet the system would be. It is conceivable that the hyperloop could be routed straight into and through the heart of city centers.
It's never been about technical impossibility. We can land people on the moon, we can make a cart full of people go through a vacuum tube. The problems are this: >It's too expensive to build, maintain and operate to ever be more cost-effective than a high-speed train. >It's completely impractical to move large numbers of people with and too prone to failures. Friggin' airlocks, man. >It's taking money and goodwill away from actual practical transport solutions. I like the concept and the science, but Hyperloop is never going to be more than a small-scale vanity project.
@@markharmon4963 If the Hyperloop is punctured, the pressure differential between the vacuum inside and the atmospheric pressure outside would cause the entire thing to implode, killing everyone inside and causing billions in damage.
@kimjongsupporter7539 It will also be made of steel plate. Would a vessel of 1" steel plate at atmospheric pressure implode 40' under water (equal to 15 psi of differential) ? At a 12' diameter it would not. Here is an experiment. Find a discharged old 20 lb propane tank (standard) and discharge it. Then with the valve open tie it to 40 lbs (100 kilograms) and sink it to 40' at the end of a rope and tell me if it fails catastrophically. The leak will actually help preserve the structure of the tank/cylinder because it is equalizing.
The biggest question which usually remains unanswered with all of these projects is what happens when things go wrong? Can you just open the tube up and evacuate the passengers? If the pod hits the wall does it crash and explode? What safety procedures do they have in order to make it so that no matter what happens, they can expect the passengers to be safe?
What happens on a regular bullet train if derails or whatever? What happens on an airplane if the engines fail? The fact that that a non-engineer doesn't know the answers to these questions doesn't mean somehow the project is impossible.
@@takanara7 unfortunately, your response doesn’t really address the issue. When an airplane fails, there are several options, one of which is that the plane can potentially glide to a landing on water land, if there’s more than one engine, and one engine goes out, they can still power. For a bullet train, you have the entirety of 99% of your surroundings to escape into. when you’re talking about The hyper loop concept, there is a huge issue, which is very different from any of these other technologies, and for all of those other transportation systems, there is ample documentation of how they deal with emergency situation’s. That is not the case with the hyper loop. a hyper loop, and its purest form, is a closed tube with no oxygen in it. That is very different from any of these other technologies. When you go through a tunnel in a train or a car, the tunnels are designed with access points, and escape routes. it is true that in some instances, there could be unforeseen circumstances like flooding that might make them more dangerous. But generally speaking, it is relatively easy compared to the actual manufacture of those systems to provide for an escape route. The channel Tunnel is maybe the only comparable transportation corridor. But even then, it was a significant part of the proposal to show what would happen if a train in the channel tunnel had a problem. We’re not seeing any of that so far with any of these proposals. it is a significant question, and again, the difference here is that the entire system is in vacuum. There are air locks to make sure that that vacuum is maintained. So what happens when that vacuum is released? Will the magnetic levitation cause the train to crash into the rail? Will there be hatches every 300 feet? In which case, how much does that add to the cost? Because each of those hatches Hass to be able to sustain that vacuum. Hand waving away, an engineering challenge is not an answer. Sure, a solution may exist. But how much more expensive will it make the overall transportation system? and when you have a closed tube that Hass to be hundreds of feet above the ground because it is even more sensitive to curves than a bullet train, the bullet train being able to be much close to the ground to the extent where, on most of the line, you could probably jump off and land without injuring yourself, what exactly is the safety plan? It’s an important question, and saying “it’s gonna be solved” is just being shortsighted. The truth is that the tolerances for a closed vacuum tube over hundreds of miles are much different from even an airplane, a bullet train, or an underwater tunnel.
There is a collision with multiple pylons causing a break in the tube. The tube equalizes air pressure through the thousands of vacuum pumps distributed throughout the system. The pods decelerate through regenerative braking, and are subsonically delivered to the next available station where a vehicle delivers them to their destination with their luggage. Basic.
Maintaining this vacuum is next to impossible so how about we just use simple steel wheels on steel rails? Of course then all of this will require more energy to run so I was thinking just one big engine could pull a lot of pods, this way both maintenance costs and the chances of collisions go down too. I've been thinking about this for a while now, in fact it's the 41st iteration of my idea, but I'm definitely creating a startup called Neotech with this idea and my invention will be called "TRansportaton 41 Neotech" or TR41N for short.
The concept behind the hyperloop was conceived way before Elon Musk was even born. I actually think he revived interest in the concept to troll the other billionaires and see if any were foolish enough to dump money into it. Because if he truly believed it was viable, he would have invested his own money and formed a company around it.
What a genius idea! Let's used mag lev technology to move a large and heavy object very quickly, something that will generate a MASSIVE amount of heat and let's do this in a vacuum chamber, something that is notoriously poor at transferring heat. While we're at it, let's but a tube made of carbon fiber that is at a vacuum, under the sea where it will be exposed to several atmospheres of pressure. Man, how can I invest?!
@@celan4288i can answer that one. Carbon fiber, and really many materials, behave different under pressure or tension. Tension is when the forces try to pull a thing apart, compression is when the forces try to push a thing together. Carbon fiber is incredibly good under tension, and terrible under compression. This is why an airplane works, but a submarine will become a little ball, like the Titan submarine. With a carbon fiber object the pressure should always be greater on the inside than the outside, to make use of it's strength in tension. As to why it behaves like this, it's material properties are not all that different from rope strands. Rope is very good at keeping things up from above, which is a tension situation. Rope is much less good at pushing items up from below which is a compression situation.
No... no, it doesn't. The whole point is the extreme speeds possible that are impossible with standard wheeled trains in air. 15 minutes is a hell of a lot faster than three days.
@@UpperDarbyDetailingbut why not just build HSR and avoid all the expense and nonsense of the vacuum tube? Is 30min really that much longer than 15min
@@thesneakinmonkey personally, I think the main benefit is simply as a moon shot project. Getting through the engineering of building a tube that size that can hold the atmosphere out will bring us along. Besides which, we need to develop the tech at some point anyway. Whatever system we use for getting to orbit after rockets will likely use a similar system.
@@UpperDarbyDetailing I'd be more inclined to agree were it not that these hyperloop red herrings take funds from viable projects that could benefit us today. You have to admit, commercially, it's very difficult to see how the added expense and complexity is worth the time savings vs proven HSR even if we could build a hyperloop tomorrow, particularly because the hyperloop would still need to make turns and manage inclines so average speeds would likely not be that much faster than HSR assuming roughly the same level of cost would go toward securing right of ways and building tunnels/viaducts. That's before considering that operating costs for a hyperloop could not possibly be less than just a standard HSR.
@@UpperDarbyDetailing the kind of distances necessary to compete with trains are impossible for giant vacuum tubes so it's kind of a moot argument. Maybe not literally physically impossible, but idiotic in terms of resources.
Hyperloop has succeeded in one of the things it set out to do: Undermine high-speed rail. Elon has stated he doesn't like California's attempt at HSR, and then he "invented" something that's faster and cheaper (based on numbers he totally made up) but also doesn't work in practice and he doesn't have time or money to actually work on it himself, and now people and politicians are actually giving serious consideration to Hyperloops that don't exist yet over HSR that's proven and ready.
This like this just make me sad at how extreme much of America will go to NOT just build damn trains. The US was literally built by the railroads. Much of middle America wouldn't exist without them as they were built as frontier towns or layover points during the construction of the transatlantic railroad.
@@jameslake7775 I really wish that wasn't a reasonable theory. The U.S. seems utterly determined to not have competent passenger rail, and you know it's because of business interests. Ol' Elon there having derived the majority of his wealth from a car company definitely wouldn't love a good HSR. Almost makes you wonder if the open parents aren't a cynical ploy to get government resources dumped into that instead of existing technology.
@@TalesOfWar what kills me is how many people have been indoctrinated to just wave it off as "The U.S. is just too big!" As if China wasn't literally the same size. And you could certainly focus primarily on major population centers. Being able to ride HSR from where I am in Washington to Chicago would be neat but obviously not a feasible daily commute, while an hour into a major city within 100-150 miles absolutely would be.
HSR is too expensive and wasteful. Energy is water overcoming air friction. Better and cheaper to travel in evacuated tunnels. The tunnels provide structural rigidity and the vacuum provides energy storage.
It's really telling that when we can't even manage to build normal high speed rail in the US a bunch of tech bros decide that the solution is to stick the whole thing into the world's largest vacuum chamber, vastly increasing the cost and complexity. Yeah, sure, that will fix things...
You might want to take note of the fact that most of the companies mentioned here are building outside the US. Your point couldn't miss the mark any harder.
@@thesneakinmonkey Good point, need to randomly slap solar panels on every surface. Don't put them on sun-tracking mounts so they can actually be efficient, though.
Everything I've read about the power and advamced construction materials needed to safely and efficiently create such a large vacuum, along with all the safety redundancies you'd have to put in place make this seem super unlikely on any mass level.
It's just one atmosphere of pressure. Big ships have to survive the same pressure difference over a similar volume...
@johntheux9238 I'm no engineer I just listen to the experts who seem to see this largely as an unfeasible pipe dream
There's a bigger deferential pressure in the cabin of an airliner.
@victorhankinson1530 they're the size of a large closet lol thats completely irrelevant
@@TimSedai There is something called stiffeners and stringers which are used to protect hulls from buckling. Works just fine with tubes.
Since we can’t even get a proven technology like high speed rail built in this country, I’m highly skeptical Hyperloop would ever be built.
Only way to get new anything in the US is to put a dictator in charge. That would stop all the parasites from suing over every imagined profit scheme. But only for infrastructure, otherwise China.
not in our lifetime. also, we already have high speed trains. japan and china are working on the Maglev. This is far more achievable.
@@the0ne809 not in anybody's lifetime. There are only 2 maglev due to prestige reasons despite technology has been used for 50 years.
Which country is that?
@@charlesquinn8860 China and Japan
So, to sum up: No, we're really not getting any closer to a "Hyperloop"
Which is fine, because it's a really dumb idea.
Exactly@@MrRetluocc
things that elon dickrider cant fathom@@MrRetluocc
have you watched the Video or did you just write the comment and clicked off?
@@deathsinger1192
Because we already know the answer 8 YEAR AGO before watching this video. If you are aware of certain accident involving a airplane plug door fly off from the plane, then this will happen.
If someone shoot the loop from the outside and a capsule with people were to travel the affected area, they will be the one sucking into the hole and came out as a human tooth paste.
Musk's Hyperloop was more about derailing California HSR than ever about building a true system --and it worked. Even now that Hyperloop One has declared bankruptcy, CaHSR detractors (who probably have never taken public transport) say what we really need is "Maglev".
This aged like milk
vacuum-train is well over a *CENTURY* old (hence why musk couldn't try to patent the idea) and it had already been long ago abandoned FOR A REASON in favor of practical things like high-speed and maglev rail, which work GREAT and America should just get that but scumbags like Musk bribe politicians and swindle morons with this scifi escapist fantasy crap just so he can keep selling crappy cars... this clown musk inherited blood-money and invested in paypal from which he got fired for technical incompetence, he has literally invented nothing in his life
I literally just watched a sideprojects talking about how the Hyperloop is realistically impossible
Haha same 😂, I hope we can get a Brain Blaze next...
strong ron burgundy vibes. simon reads what's on the prompter.
Actual engineers have said this all along.
there is a company in poland, that has a different approach to hyperloop: Nevomo.
they are developing a system to turn regular trains into maglevs.
step 1: linear motor between the rails.
step 2: maglev system that takes over above 150km/h.
step 3: concrete enclosure.
step 4: vacuum
the beauty of their system is that every step is compatible to regular rail traffic, and step 2 already allows for 550km/h (depending on the curves of the track).
maybe they will never create a real hyperloop, but the ability to upgrade regular high speed rails to maglevs is interesting aswell.
Hyperloop bad when musk do it
Hyperloop good when someone else does it
Well if we're ignoring all the massive flaws that would lead to explosive compression and kill everyone in the system sure, the hyperloop is totally possible. I love how it was going to run through the desert with no expansion joints because metal totally doesn't change shape when heated.
Things getting nearer every day:
1. A working Hyperloop
2. Our sun going nova
3. The heat death of the universe
Only two of the above will definitely happen.
Actually, probably only one. Last time I checked, our sun isn't quite massive enough to go nova. It's the variety that will expand as it's fuel depletes and become a brown dwarf (I think ) as the outer layers blow off.
@@firefly4f4 The heat death of the universe isn’t a fully accepted either.
@@angrydoggy9170
Let's be honest, though; both the supernova and heat death are still more likely than Hyperloop.
@@firefly4f4white dwarf, but pretty close. Should make for an awesome planetary nebula in a few billion years!
As a resident of California, let me disabuse you with the idea that the high speed rail project has collapsed. While it has been embattled, and there are still challenges ahead, they are just about to finish a significant section I think about a quarter of the entire distance, and it’s supposed to go further. Now whether it’ll actually get finished or not is is still an open question, but nobody who is involved, in it has given up, and none of the projects that are in process have been abandoned.
Hopefully I'll get to ride it one day. Would love that
Just use high speed rail. The cost of building these things will be so much greater and they won't really be better. A highspeed train can already cover distances of 40km in under 10mins there is not a really a need to do it in 5. it is hard to estimate the cost, but a giant vacuum tube the size of a train will certainly be more expensive then two sticks of steel 1.5m apart.
Musk's brain is so smooth he even claimed it was cheaper to build this than regular high speed rail or maglev, despite the thing literally being a maglev inside a tube, so you clearly have the cost of the mag lev as a minimum on top of having it run in these tubes at near vacuum.
I'm all for any kind of technology that doesn't use fossil fuels and can transport me long distances quickly. The hyperloop is one of them, but if current high speed rail can do it just as well, I'll settle for that. It's just a matter of ceasing the senseless arguments about the costs.
@@bluegold1026 It's not just about the costs, it's about the feasibility. The Hyperloop is just a marketing scam from Musk to divert attention and funds from technology that already exists and works well (high speed rail) so that people would keep buying his Tesla cars in the meantime.
@@bluegold1026 We had electric trains (that are more ecological that hyperloop, because it needs MUCH less energy) for .... a century basically. So normal and high speed rail ALREADY are much better than any hyperloop.
That’s the thing, they’re not meant to ever be built. This idea is meant to jangle in front of stupid politicians like a set of keys to keep them from investing in real viable things like high speed rail so dickhead billionaires can continue to sell their cars in the meantime. It’s a political project meant to scam the public.
I laughed out loud at the proposal to have a depressurized tube *under the sea* ... nothing quite like making it even more inconceivable to have such a tube than surrounding the tube by the immense pressures of water.
Maybe it's the newest way of making money. Large scale under the sea implosions. Purchase your one way ticket today. Nothing crushes the vacuum tube like sudden water displacement.
The difference between a tube withstanding and external pressure of 80 atmospheres with an internal pressure of 1 atmosphere, and the same tube withstanding the same external pressure whilst containing a perfect vacuum is minimal. The concept has problems but that ain't one of them...
@tomj819 you only think of 1 bar, in comparison to pressure. Difference is that you have a vacuum, even a small leak will draw the surrounding fluid in so fast that nothing inside can escape. If you have 1 bar inside, then the external pressure will eventually be equalised. That makes a huge difference.
@@jantschierschky3461 1) You think anyone planning this tunnel would even contemplate a single-walled design? 2) Do you know what the depth of the Baltic Sea is? 3) Relative pressure is relative. The difference between 5bar external and 1bar internal, and 4bar external and 0bar internal is zero.
@tomj819 Again, pressure is one thing. As I said, you have a leak, everyone is dead inside. Have you ever seen a vacuum container getting crushed ? I know how deep the Baltic is, I spent enough time on it.
It is virtually impossible to get the hyperloop system to work safely in real life. Great idea in sci fi novels, not so much in real life. It won't ever be implemented commercially. It's a complete pipe dream!
well said. Just maintaining the vaccuum for that amount of volume is impossible. Not to mention the construction costs simply quadruple regular rail construction( something most countries cannot afford as is ) The newest skinksaen is getting closer and closer to hyperloop speeds with the recent model topping 600kph. So in the future ,maglevs will be doing 8-900 kph with no vaccuum tube needed.
Why not? We already have welded rails that can survive thermal expansion over miles without joints.
@@johntheux9238 A welded chunk of steel isn't quite the same as maintaining a near vacuum over tens or hundreds of miles. It takes one idiot with a gun, a rock, a car etc to do something to compromise that to quickly destroy the entire thing, or a large section of it. Explosive decompression is rather violent.
@@TalesOfWar Big cargo ships have their hulls over 10 meters underwater. They can survive one atmosphere of pressure difference on a way bigger radius.
All you need are stiffeners and stringers to prevent buckling from the negative pressure difference.
@@johntheux9238Completely irrelevant comparison
I think the biggest difference between cars, boats, trains, planes, etc. and the hyperloop is the basic concept of *where* they travel. The other forms of transportation might've been tricky to figure out at first, but where they traveled once they were operational (e.g. across the ground, in the sky, on the water) was simple. The hyperloop, on the other hand, doesn't sound like a particularly complex vehicle to figure out relative to what we already have, but where it travels seems preposterously impractical for a litany of reasons to anyone who has ever worked with or learned about creating and maintaining a vacuum.
And yet, Elon knows more about engineering than anybody alive today…
@useyourheadpliz Is that why Tesla has so many complaints about gaps and build quality?
I think a vacuum cleaner company should do it. I can test it with my vacuum cleaner.
The California high speed railway hasn’t “collapsed”. Development is fully funded through 2030, and is proceeding.
Did the video Age well?
Im mocking him too
I love Adam Something's brutal debunk of HyperloopTT. Basically it's just dead on arrival, because you can chain those pods, put them on rails, call it a train, and forget about these extremely expensive techno shenanigans. Hyperloop as proposed there has the obvious limitations of capacity, plus the total inability to route traffic around a broken part of the track. It's fancy if stuff go really fast, but that's hardly the main issue to solve with logistics. Those same containers have been weeks at the sea already, and they're sitting on the shoreline because processing them further is slower than offloading them from a ship which Hyperloop would do nothing about. The proposed system would make sense if you could shoot goods from China to all the way to Europe or U.S.
I'd like to see the configuration to maintain the vacuum of the tube while docking a train.
We can't keep the power grid from overloading on a hot day. Where's the power going to come from to draw a vacuum on a substantially sized tube?
You can see a configuration in my granted UKIPO patent, Zero Energy Transportation System.
@@othmanskn yeah that isn’t a thing.
@JerryB507 you must live in California.
@@glockfanboy4635 2021 Texas, 2003 the North East, 1996 the West Coast.
This year, of course, Texas asked people to reduce the use of electricity - during a record heat wave - or there would be rolling blackouts.
Sorry, but this mess of vacuum trains has been debunked time and time again. The idea goes back to at least the early 1900s.
You mean debunked by thunderf00t? That guy doesn't even know the difference between a soda can and a vacuum chamber. Vacuum chambers have stiffeners to protect the walls against buckling loads.
@@johntheux9238 LOL a Musk fanboi
@@ddpwe5269 I don't care about Musk I'm just saying it works. There are ships floating all over the ocean whose hull can survive similar pressure (10 meters of water is equal to one atmosphere) over a similar volume (600'000 cubic meters is equal to a 100 miles long vacuum chamber)
@@ddpwe5269Has he said anything incorrect?
Yes. No one cares about the strength of the tube. We can all agree that the tube will hold a vacuum and remain strong. Our concern is that it would be near impossible to make such a long tube have a vacuum as our current vacuum tubes are tiny in comparison, and that if your train had an accident you are now exposed to that vacuum
No, the hyperloop will not happen. Not at "scale". Maybe some demonstrations, but not in a really impactful way.
Why not? Welded rails work great at scale without any issue with thermal expansion despite the lack of joints. I don't see why a vacuum chamber would not.
@@johntheux9238 Won't the vacuum chambers need to be very structurally strong, to face the pressure ? Having them expand and contract won't jeopardize that ?
Also, even without that to worry, it's still massively expensive. The maglevs are considerably easier and cheaper, for ... 40 years already ? And yet you barely have any around the world. Because they're that expensive. The hyperloop is another magnitude more expensive.
If that 3rd world country of USA would actually have wanted to have fast travel between its cities, it would have made 200mph/300kmph trains already. It's 50 years technology already. Now we're getting close to 400kmph already, without maglev.
Considering the security checks and check in and so on, except for the absolute farthest distances (coast to coast), high speed rail is on par or faster than airplanes, since you can simply arrive at the station 5 minutes before the train leaves. And you don't have the limitations of the airplaine, like no liquids or max 99Wh laptop batteries and so on.
And even for coast to coast, you can take the train over night and sleep in it for around 8 hours. Ok, it might need something like 10 to 12 hours. Still, with 8 hours sleeping, it will be like 2 to 4 hours of missing productive hours. Still on par with airplanes.
@@johntheux9238the energy requirements to draw and maintain a vacuum, given the fact that you have to have reach points at every station at least make such a system pointless.
The future is a long, long time.
@@Yutani_Crayven physics will still matter in the future
Nooooooo. Simon watch thunderf00t
or common sense skeptic
It's a well known fact at this point that Musk only started the hyperloop hype because he didn't want America to start the new train project which would make his cars less desirable.
The number of reasons it's not viable are massive. For one, the amount of energy takes to draw and maintain vacuum in hundreds of miles of the tunnel almost certainly exceeds the Energy savings
Right? But Elon came up with it and he's definitely not a raging lunatic.
@@sogerc1 LOL
Viable not liable
@@jongmassey speech to text error.
Fixed. Thanks.
I wonder about this one myself it can be tough to maintain a vacuum in something as simple as an industrial chiller how is this going to be maintained?
Whenever I hear or see something about building a Hyperloop I think of the Simpsons episode about building a Monorail.
Oh Simon......you're whistling in the wind with this one
"concorde, railgun, and air hockey table" is an amazing way to phrase it to be fair
That's one hell of a carnival ride in the making....😂
Simon we are so far of from having this as a commercial concept that in the future when and if we will have something that travels that fast over land, it will have verry little to do with what we now consider "hyperloop". Think of what the modern smart phone is to the early startreck communicator fundamentally it transmits and receives audio but it does so much more yet so much less then its SFY counterpart. Furthermore if your interested in the topic lookup how difficult is to hold even partial vacuum in a large chamber
This video didn’t age well. 4 months and hyper loop one has gone kaput.
Thunderfoot was right all along.
The main problem I see at least with any of these large projects aiming to spend a lot of money in order to move people very fast over large distances, is that you can negate the need for such a thing by either removing the requirement for the people to travel in the first place (remote work, telepresence, etc), or just using existing methods and accepting the travel time, use the money to make the journey more comfortable, provide good internet on the trains etc.
Both of these come at a fraction of the price, are things we already know how to do, and require no engineering megaprojects such as continent-spanning vacuum tubes or new materials.
The main problem I see is it came from Elon Musk's mouth.
1:45 - Chapter 1 - Complex design , complex history
4:50 - Chapter 2 - Hyperlooptt
8:00 - Chapter 3 - Virgin hyperloop
10:40 - Chapter 4 - Transpod
12:30 - Chapter 5 - Eurotube
14:30 - Chapter 6 - China
16:20 - Chapter 7 - Conclusion
@ignitionfm2223 : thank you for the extended list of different vaporware projects
getting closer? One need to be blind to say this 3 months before the company goes out of business.
Oof. They just shut down the hyperloop project. Video did not age well.
Without an at scale proof of concept the hyperloop will only ever be hype.
Maybe a hundred years later that hype will go on another loop.
It's probably not feasible this decade, or only feasible on mars.
One thing for sure. You can't spell hyperloop without hype.
Halbach arrays is just a special pattern to orient magnets that results in most of the magnetic force coming out of one side of the array and less on the other.
Suffice it to say, this is really useful.
I'm no expert, but it is entirely unsurprising that such a thing is used on extremely large projects that use a lot of magnets. Honestly, IDK why it would even be mentioned in anything other than technical documents. It's strikes me as weird that Hyperloop TT would do more than include a footnote on Halbach arrays on promotional materials targeted to the layman. Sure, it's a cool factoid, but it's like saying race cars use higher octane than regular cars. Maybe to sound smart and look like they're saving money or being extra high performance?
The only reason Musk even suggested this was to kill off the California High Speed Rail project. He knew the hype would make governments around the world would lose interest for HSR and move over to the idea of Hyperloop, before realising the whole thing is a waste of fucking time as a mass transit system, even if it was remotely practical to build (note, it isn't). He just wants to sell more shittily build cars.
Sir, since you got this wrong from the start - vacuum trains are a more than hundred years old science fiction idea - long before Elon Musk´s father was born, I am not sure whether it makes sence to follow this to the end. However, here are some very simple reasons why this concept has no practical value: 1. Economics, 2. Technical issues and 3. Security. As for no. 1 the more complex, the more expensive is a system. Cost for building and operation will be skyrocketing against any other system. One would have to build this tube more or less straight over land that is earned by someone, with a supply road underneath and service stations all 20 km with spare part warehouses and service crews and, and and...endless costs of operation. As for no.2 to maintain a medium vacuum in a tube of 3-4m diameter, there will be a massive amout of vacuum pumps required all requireing constant maintenance and energy. You must be able to seal this tube by airlocks to get people in an off the train and you have to deal with temperature differences and many more things to keep a vacuum upright in a chamber of this size. And last but not least: no. 3 Security. There need to be an option to evacuate the passengers in case of havoc or train failure. That would require to have airlocks every 3-5 km on the route or flood the whole system. Not to speak about the perfect terrorist target such a concept would be. However, lets for one moment think all these technicals and security issues could be resolved. There are already solutions in place which provide a better, cheaper and more effective and secure solution of transport already: The "train" and the "plane". There is no advantage over these by a "Hyperloop" an Hyperloop is just another Elon Musk bullshit concept and everybody who waste one cent for this project is completely mad and out of his mind.
Thunderf00t's gonna have another field day I guess
It's unfortunate that mega-projects platforms this bullshit. Alas, such is the cgi click bait world in which we live.
It's free content!
He is an idiot. He had been proven wrong so many times already and yet never repented. Even in n UFO.
That guy is a complete farce.
Seems difficult to see a big market where this is better than regular trains for moving freight, or better than airplanes for moving humans.
So, this isn’t sarcasm. This video was published after the Hyperloop investments dropped out, meaning there’s no excuse for it. Even rail enthusiasts think Hyperloop is stupid. Hint: the problem isn’t the technology that needs development, it’s the practical and legal problems.
No we're not. Have a good day 👍
Mag lev trains are borderline unviable and are only made possible with heavy state subsidies. A hyper loop is a mag lev made orders of magnitude more complex, expensive and dangerous. We will never see a functional hyperloop for the public in this lifetime, I'd bet my life on it.
You often do good work, but not so on this topic. Hyperloop is a cartoon concept put forth by a cartoon CEO in order to distract Californians from supporting high speed rail. The concept has taken on more hype-life than I’m sure Musk first imagined it would, but in the end there’s absolutely no cost effective or practical way to pull this off, not to mention the enormous safety issues. Time to move on.
I don't think Californians need any help whatsoever from outside to turn against the _current_ high speed rail project in their state, their own state government has done a perfectly fine job on that already
The hyperloop is basically just a variant of a vactrain, which was first proposed in 1799, so it doesn't seem fair to credit a non-scientist businessman like Musk with its invention
And now its dead.
You know, I'm no engineer, however I could not accept this thing becoming a reality, the logistics of maintaining a vacuum in say a 2 meter wide 10km long tube was way out there as far as I was concerned.
Not to mention bringing some of the dangers of space travel right down to earth.
Instead of wasting everyone's time with a hyperloop on Earth... just design one for use on the Moon. Where you don't have to worry about maintaining a vacuum... though its basically a mag-lev train at that point.
yeah that's not a hypeeloop at all
This aged like fine wine
milk
Aged like a juicy meal that gives you cholera. It's shit
Adam Something has already convinced me that hyperloop is a dumb idea
Aaaaaand it went pop! How funny.
"Thunderf00t has entered the chat."
😂😂
I love how even supposedly sane people bought into it. Its crazy.
Sooo, was the owner of this channel paid to regurgitate mindless hyperloop PR, or is he just completely detached from scientific reality? Mind you, Hyperloop One's just shut down, failing to reach every single one of its much touted goals.
To be fair, he just reads a script in overly-long videos and snorts a lot bloating the length still further.
Kaput!!! $450 million Capital Venture is in liquidation
Japan's maglev train shows you don't need to build dangerous "vacuum tubes" to be able to go super fast.
I don't think Japan has maglev trains. China has a line or two in operation, all others are prototypes. It's just way too expensive. The point of Hyperloop is low cost.
@@andrasbiro3007 Are you for real? Search UA-cam for "japan maglev train"
@@andrasbiro3007 "low cost..." Then why are all Hyperloop operational cost estimates 10X that of regular high speed trains and 5X that of airliners? Oh boy.
Six operational commercial maglev systems can be found worldwide, with one in Japan, two in South Korea, and three in the big C. The most extensive among the three within the big C is the impressive -Shanghai-Transrapid-project-, accomplished in a mere two and a half years at a cost of ¥10 billion (US$1.33 billion).
It stretches across a 30.5 km (18.95 mi) track and boasts an impressive top operational commercial speed of 431 km/h (268 mph). Consequently, it has held the title of the world's fastest train in regular commercial service since its inauguration in April 2004.
@@andrasbiro3007 Don't lie.
megacringe megaproject, dumb investors, trend chasing media outlets (and youtube channels). unrelated; can anyone tell me all of this dudes channels so i can block them? getting tired of seeing his face with a different name every week or so. very low effort content farm
I bet Simon is cringing that he called this wrong.
BNSF is building a new rail hub in Barstow, CA to handle the rail traffic from the Ports of LA and Long Beach. As the crow flies that's 108 Miles (174Km). How would you depressurize a tube in excess of 108 miles long that's big enough to handle a 9'X10'X40' 34 Ton Shipping Container?
I suspect you wouldn't. 108 miles is a relatively short distance when operating at high speeds. Freight does not need to move that fast. Why send containers to an inland hub faster than they can actually be sorted? If conventional rail, HSR or not is not fast enough for those containers then Maglev would be more than fast enough. Absolute zero justification for a Hyperloop in this application. Besides, people never seem to realize exactly how large a pod would need to be to carry a typical shipping container. The diameter of the pod itself would likely dwarf conventional rail vehicles. The tubes would be massive structures. Not just heavy and expensive but unsightly. They won't be the dainty things in Musk's bullshit white paper.
Hyperloop one just went bankrupt, for obvious reasons, lol.
This has aged like milk...
... in the desert...
now we have .... cheese?
@@jochannan7379 Yes, especially stinky cheese!
The maintainance headache of trying to maintain even a partial vacuum on such a large scale would be near impossible. You would need hundreds or thousands of vacuum pumps along the length of thevtube.
One bump to the outside and it will implode...
Just as there are thousands and even millions of wheels, nuts, screws, servos, in a large device. And yet these devices are still working, and even get larger and larger. Supertankers, SpaceX rockets. Bullet trains. Microprocessors.
@@othmanskn The problem isn't what you mention. It is that the pressures are enormous and structural integrity is very tenuous. Unless you want to build beyond all economic reason.
@@kentl7228 All subjective statements that are meaningless. Bullet trains and Supersonic jets also suffer the same problems but Bullet trains are getting more and more. Supersonic jets are widely used in the military and they even upgrade to hypersonics. Space flights used to suffer the same subjective criticisms, but they are launching more tourist flights. Not to mention reusable rockets.
Air and space travels are few in comparison to mass Transportations and yet you dare to conclude that vacuum tunnels are uneconomical.
@@othmanskn I love that every single comment you make is 100% wrong because you don’t have any understanding of the subject lmao
Company's gone bust, don't even need to watch this video
It is amazing how Elizabeth Holms gets called a scammer but Musk just get a slap on the wrist
this ended well. Clown
I'm an 80s kid. When we were school they asked to draw pictures of the future. 1 thing we all had in them was flying cars. Im still waiting on the flying cars!!
Same. I even remember seeing the vacuum train concept in a picture book when I was in kindergarten.
Helicopters ?
I'd be happier if we just fixed the potholes and or replaced & better constructed roads
I’d be happier if we just stopped spending staggering sums on our roads and spent a fraction of that money on proven rail technology.
❤ trains, cars and bikes. I want options!
@@KyleRhoades7 Are you living in China? Rail technology is low utilization unless you have packed civilians like sardines into a high density environment. 15 minute cities are tyrannically totalitarian.
But instead the “local council” will tear up the bypass.. but only in sections like a checker board instead of the whole bloody thing 😂
Bro, there are *SO MANY* problems with maintaining a (near) vacuum along a super massive tunnel - the core idea of the "hyperloop". Maintaining a supermassive tunnel with a constant vacuum is insanely *insanely* expensive and difficult.
Even with super boring traditional high speed rail that just sits on normal tracks, it's *already* extremely expensive and requires a ton of maintenance... now, jump that up by 100x and you are starting to get an idea of how expensive and difficult an actual working hyperloop over 100+km long would be. It's just not happening within this century.
Sustaining a low pressure environment in a closed system is about as difficult as running a refrigerator compressor.
And rails support nothing. It is all of the thousands of tons of Earth, gravel, wood and concrete that must be quarried, processed delivered, placed, graded, compacted, quality controlled, inspected, redone, and surveyed before the rail is placed. And after it is used a year, the whole thing needs to be realigned and ground to fit. Which means rail is rarely used full speed. And the rails will expire.
Or manufacture the columns and pipe in a factory; truck them to the sight, align, instal and adjust them to spec. Monitor and adjust their alignment over time.
Imagine the work that goes into building a road vs installing the top rail on a fence.
The sheer amount of power you would need to depressurise the massive volume of space would defeat the object of hyperloop even if you can make it work. Each time you open up the gate or even many gates you have to pull the air back out. It doesn't take long for the atmosphere to enter the vacuum.
a system of floodgates could be implemented to speed up the process, think of it as a plane, you actually have to spend a buch of time to get off of it, unlike for example the underground which is just a door opening.
Not to mention the continuous depressurizing every time a pod enters the tube and leaves the tube. This will also cause a slow down as each pod has to wait for the airlock to equalize pressure every entry and exit.
@@asandax6 couldn't have put it better myself.
This is one of those technologies that would change the world if it were to become practical and cheap, but nothing I have seen so far regarding the research and development tells me this is not going anywhere but possibly a very expensive prototype that no one ends up using for anything beyond proof of concept.
No it wouldn't change the world. It doesn't offer any advantage significant enough compared to existing solution to transportation problem, so even if the tech was feasible and (relatively) cheap to produce the cost of building the infrastructure and maintenance alone makes it unappealing.
This isn't a new idea. It was mooted in science fiction as long ago as the 1920s when vacuum message tubes were a feature of sophisticated offices. Mr Musk has also apparently experimented with Heinlein's rolling road concept. Apparently he read similar science fiction to my childhood literary diet and is busily trying to make Heinlein 's future come true. We can only hope he's not a judge dredd fan as well.
You sound like a Taco Bell hater
That's true but lots of ideas are thought up in science fiction long before they are put into practical use. That's just how it goes. Indeed this is sort of the whole point of science fiction
@@justintime5021 true, but one should also heed its warnings
Hyperloop is basically a special kind of train line with all the advantages/disadvantages that come with it (faster than cars, but needing a special track etc).
Right now trains are way, way cheaper than hyperloop: a sealed tunnel is inherently more expensive than a rail line. So for hyperloop to become viable, it needs some big advantage over rail, and the only thing I can think of is speed. It needs to be much, much faster than high speed rail (300-500km/h). Perhaps that is possible but makes it much harder to pull off.
For freight, speed doesn't really matter that much: if ships are fast enough, then certainly regular trains are fast enough. I can't see how hyperloop can have an advantage here.
To move people, I believe maglev will be much more viable (see the new line in Japan for example that runs at about 500km/h) - even if maglev itself is rather expensive.
In the end, it all comes down to economics. And for almost all the cases where hyperloop is suggested, a regular (or high speed) train line makes much more economic sense.
Fully agree, but this is a fun hypothetical journey.
One day I would love to travel the world at high speed, because I am sick and disabled, and transport is so exhausting and makes me so sore and sick. A high speed train would do that very nicely for me! I could pop to a neighbouring country, grab some yummy specialty foods, enjoy the views and language, and then pop home for an evening meal and time to rest properly.
Wow the hype of hypeloop. No Mr youtube expert its not closer/anything.
This is funny timing, just yesterday I watched the Sideprojects vid from 6 months ago - Some MORE of the World's Most Useless Megaprojects - and Hyperloop was one of them!
unlike this that was correct
simon whistler is youtube's ron burgundy. he reads what's on the prompter.
@@Ass_of_Amalek sadly yeah
Dude, the hyperloop had over a century to become real. The concept is even older than the invention of motor-powered airplane itself.
As someone who worked with maglevs for decades, still nobody explained the point of hyperloop. It seams like it only suppose to exist as a distraction
A distraction from what, if I may ask?
@@remkoburger6595 Hyperloop is a distraction from maglev
The whole concept was devised by Elon Musk to stall the building of California High-speed rail. He has even admitted it.
Musk wanted a system where his Teslas could drive into the Hyperloop pod and be transported.
He didn't like the idea of people not driving his products, so he used this Hyperloop BS to throw a gear in the works of High speed rail.
The point is that in vacuum trains can move much faster with minimal power consumption. The latter is important too if you want to be sustainable. And using air instead of magnets is just simpler and vastly cheaper.
First maglev prototypes were built many decades ago, and they still not caught on. That's a bad omen for the technology.
How is this video not solely about the fact a man exists named Brogan Bambrogan? Best. Name. Ever.
That name just says Douche Bag all over it. I don't get the attraction.
And hyperloop one went bust
Elon NEVER had much to do with hyperloop, he simply put the idea out there.
LOL. This aged well.
One big problem os HSR is that the alignment has to be very straight, with very large turning radiuses, a relatively flat gradients due to the speeds. You cant use existing highway or conventional rail corridors. Aside from more tunnels and more bridges, the expropriation and stakeholder process is a nightmare in many developed countries that in theory have the money and passanngers to pay for the ticket. Thats why some countries like China can do lots, others like UK fail to do. And Hyperloop would be much faster, meaning much straighter. You are gonna hit so many phisical and legal obstacles. Even going below ground
You don't actually need to provide a complete vacuum or get very close. Just removing significant air resistance is the point. And using it for freight really would be a good idea, especially to help decongest ports and cities.
The problem is the limited space for air molecules to move. Even if the vacuum is 90% there are enough molecules that would quickly compress and cause resistance and heat. There are a few good explanations I’ve seen on YT. I think thunderfoot had one explaining this problem.
The problem is in that "significant", anything not close enough to total vacuum would be significant in a confined space. Also the lack of transportation capacity of any of these project tells me that even if it worked as intended, it wouldn't bring any solution to cities and ports congestion, the real solution to these is in city planning, no in any one piece of new tech.
The great part of this application is how quiet the system would be. It is conceivable that the hyperloop could be routed straight into and through the heart of city centers.
It's never been about technical impossibility. We can land people on the moon, we can make a cart full of people go through a vacuum tube.
The problems are this:
>It's too expensive to build, maintain and operate to ever be more cost-effective than a high-speed train.
>It's completely impractical to move large numbers of people with and too prone to failures. Friggin' airlocks, man.
>It's taking money and goodwill away from actual practical transport solutions.
I like the concept and the science, but Hyperloop is never going to be more than a small-scale vanity project.
Not even slightly close. Its a dead duck.
Hyperloop One (former Virgin Hyperloop One) has already ceased operations at the end of 2023.
I think the biggest thing that no one talks about is sabotage. So much rural area where one bullet.would cause chat catastrophic damage.
How?
@@markharmon4963 If the Hyperloop is punctured, the pressure differential between the vacuum inside and the atmospheric pressure outside would cause the entire thing to implode, killing everyone inside and causing billions in damage.
@@kimjongsupporter7539 The hyperloop is in compression. It is not a thin membrane in tension it will not pop.
@kimjongsupporter7539 It will also be made of steel plate. Would a vessel of 1" steel plate at atmospheric pressure implode 40' under water (equal to 15 psi of differential) ? At a 12' diameter it would not. Here is an experiment. Find a discharged old 20 lb propane tank (standard) and discharge it. Then with the valve open tie it to 40 lbs (100 kilograms) and sink it to 40' at the end of a rope and tell me if it fails catastrophically. The leak will actually help preserve the structure of the tank/cylinder because it is equalizing.
The biggest question which usually remains unanswered with all of these projects is what happens when things go wrong? Can you just open the tube up and evacuate the passengers? If the pod hits the wall does it crash and explode? What safety procedures do they have in order to make it so that no matter what happens, they can expect the passengers to be safe?
What happens on a regular bullet train if derails or whatever? What happens on an airplane if the engines fail? The fact that that a non-engineer doesn't know the answers to these questions doesn't mean somehow the project is impossible.
@@takanara7 unfortunately, your response doesn’t really address the issue.
When an airplane fails, there are several options, one of which is that the plane can potentially glide to a landing on water land, if there’s more than one engine, and one engine goes out, they can still power. For a bullet train, you have the entirety of 99% of your surroundings to escape into.
when you’re talking about The hyper loop concept, there is a huge issue, which is very different from any of these other technologies, and for all of those other transportation systems, there is ample documentation of how they deal with emergency situation’s. That is not the case with the hyper loop.
a hyper loop, and its purest form, is a closed tube with no oxygen in it. That is very different from any of these other technologies.
When you go through a tunnel in a train or a car, the tunnels are designed with access points, and escape routes. it is true that in some instances, there could be unforeseen circumstances like flooding that might make them more dangerous. But generally speaking, it is relatively easy compared to the actual manufacture of those systems to provide for an escape route. The channel Tunnel is maybe the only comparable transportation corridor. But even then, it was a significant part of the proposal to show what would happen if a train in the channel tunnel had a problem.
We’re not seeing any of that so far with any of these proposals. it is a significant question, and again, the difference here is that the entire system is in vacuum. There are air locks to make sure that that vacuum is maintained. So what happens when that vacuum is released? Will the magnetic levitation cause the train to crash into the rail? Will there be hatches every 300 feet? In which case, how much does that add to the cost? Because each of those hatches Hass to be able to sustain that vacuum.
Hand waving away, an engineering challenge is not an answer. Sure, a solution may exist. But how much more expensive will it make the overall transportation system? and when you have a closed tube that Hass to be hundreds of feet above the ground because it is even more sensitive to curves than a bullet train, the bullet train being able to be much close to the ground to the extent where, on most of the line, you could probably jump off and land without injuring yourself, what exactly is the safety plan?
It’s an important question, and saying “it’s gonna be solved” is just being shortsighted. The truth is that the tolerances for a closed vacuum tube over hundreds of miles are much different from even an airplane, a bullet train, or an underwater tunnel.
@@takanara7 That's true, this isn't why this project is impossible.
There is a collision with multiple pylons causing a break in the tube.
The tube equalizes air pressure through the thousands of vacuum pumps distributed throughout the system.
The pods decelerate through regenerative braking, and are subsonically delivered to the next available station where a vehicle delivers them to their destination with their luggage.
Basic.
Or, hear me out here, just build high speed rail now
Elon said it was so easy though! He says a lot of things
Maintaining this vacuum is next to impossible so how about we just use simple steel wheels on steel rails? Of course then all of this will require more energy to run so I was thinking just one big engine could pull a lot of pods, this way both maintenance costs and the chances of collisions go down too. I've been thinking about this for a while now, in fact it's the 41st iteration of my idea, but I'm definitely creating a startup called Neotech with this idea and my invention will be called "TRansportaton 41 Neotech" or TR41N for short.
Uh, no the chances of collisions would go up, not down.
@@takanara7 How come? Fewer independent units are easier to synchronize.
The concept behind the hyperloop was conceived way before Elon Musk was even born. I actually think he revived interest in the concept to troll the other billionaires and see if any were foolish enough to dump money into it. Because if he truly believed it was viable, he would have invested his own money and formed a company around it.
Didn't he say that he brought it up to distract from proper high speed rail, to protect thw Tesla market?
@@Stoyonyup
He was sabotage high speed rail
what? did I miss something or has "megaprojects" always been a bag of insanity that pays no attention to basic physics?
What a genius idea! Let's used mag lev technology to move a large and heavy object very quickly, something that will generate a MASSIVE amount of heat and let's do this in a vacuum chamber, something that is notoriously poor at transferring heat. While we're at it, let's but a tube made of carbon fiber that is at a vacuum, under the sea where it will be exposed to several atmospheres of pressure. Man, how can I invest?!
Sincere question- how is it possible to use carbon fiber composites in airplanes? Don't they also undergo severe pressure?
@@celan4288i can answer that one. Carbon fiber, and really many materials, behave different under pressure or tension. Tension is when the forces try to pull a thing apart, compression is when the forces try to push a thing together. Carbon fiber is incredibly good under tension, and terrible under compression. This is why an airplane works, but a submarine will become a little ball, like the Titan submarine. With a carbon fiber object the pressure should always be greater on the inside than the outside, to make use of it's strength in tension. As to why it behaves like this, it's material properties are not all that different from rope strands. Rope is very good at keeping things up from above, which is a tension situation. Rope is much less good at pushing items up from below which is a compression situation.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 Precisely. Thank you
Will never happen. Too expensive and dangerous. It's a bad idea that costs way too much.
So long, every single hyperloop company have failed. So, nah - it will never happen.
It's almost like a train does literally everything the concept of a hyper loop does but better, but no, let's reinvent the wheel again
No... no, it doesn't. The whole point is the extreme speeds possible that are impossible with standard wheeled trains in air. 15 minutes is a hell of a lot faster than three days.
@@UpperDarbyDetailingbut why not just build HSR and avoid all the expense and nonsense of the vacuum tube? Is 30min really that much longer than 15min
@@thesneakinmonkey personally, I think the main benefit is simply as a moon shot project. Getting through the engineering of building a tube that size that can hold the atmosphere out will bring us along. Besides which, we need to develop the tech at some point anyway. Whatever system we use for getting to orbit after rockets will likely use a similar system.
@@UpperDarbyDetailing I'd be more inclined to agree were it not that these hyperloop red herrings take funds from viable projects that could benefit us today. You have to admit, commercially, it's very difficult to see how the added expense and complexity is worth the time savings vs proven HSR even if we could build a hyperloop tomorrow, particularly because the hyperloop would still need to make turns and manage inclines so average speeds would likely not be that much faster than HSR assuming roughly the same level of cost would go toward securing right of ways and building tunnels/viaducts. That's before considering that operating costs for a hyperloop could not possibly be less than just a standard HSR.
@@UpperDarbyDetailing the kind of distances necessary to compete with trains are impossible for giant vacuum tubes so it's kind of a moot argument. Maybe not literally physically impossible, but idiotic in terms of resources.
I'm glad I saw Adam Something's video on the subject BEFORE I saw this one.
Yeah, might be a bit early for billionaires travelling in composite pressure vessels, all things considered!
ohh boy fhunderf00t will love this KEKW
It would be pretty rad if we could just get a nice HSR system in the U.S. Hyperloop is fun sci-fi, but we've already got the tech for HSR.
Hyperloop has succeeded in one of the things it set out to do: Undermine high-speed rail.
Elon has stated he doesn't like California's attempt at HSR, and then he "invented" something that's faster and cheaper (based on numbers he totally made up) but also doesn't work in practice and he doesn't have time or money to actually work on it himself, and now people and politicians are actually giving serious consideration to Hyperloops that don't exist yet over HSR that's proven and ready.
This like this just make me sad at how extreme much of America will go to NOT just build damn trains. The US was literally built by the railroads. Much of middle America wouldn't exist without them as they were built as frontier towns or layover points during the construction of the transatlantic railroad.
@@jameslake7775 I really wish that wasn't a reasonable theory. The U.S. seems utterly determined to not have competent passenger rail, and you know it's because of business interests. Ol' Elon there having derived the majority of his wealth from a car company definitely wouldn't love a good HSR. Almost makes you wonder if the open parents aren't a cynical ploy to get government resources dumped into that instead of existing technology.
@@TalesOfWar what kills me is how many people have been indoctrinated to just wave it off as "The U.S. is just too big!" As if China wasn't literally the same size. And you could certainly focus primarily on major population centers. Being able to ride HSR from where I am in Washington to Chicago would be neat but obviously not a feasible daily commute, while an hour into a major city within 100-150 miles absolutely would be.
HSR is too expensive and wasteful. Energy is water overcoming air friction. Better and cheaper to travel in evacuated tunnels. The tunnels provide structural rigidity and the vacuum provides energy storage.
Maybe one day people will stop thinking that everything Elon Musk says is the gospel.
No, we're not.
Not sure why you said that the high speed rail in california is all but collapsed when it's being built at the moment.
It's really telling that when we can't even manage to build normal high speed rail in the US a bunch of tech bros decide that the solution is to stick the whole thing into the world's largest vacuum chamber, vastly increasing the cost and complexity. Yeah, sure, that will fix things...
Dont forget it'll be solar powered
You might want to take note of the fact that most of the companies mentioned here are building outside the US. Your point couldn't miss the mark any harder.
@@thesneakinmonkey Good point, need to randomly slap solar panels on every surface. Don't put them on sun-tracking mounts so they can actually be efficient, though.
"We're getting closer to a hyperloop!" No we're not.