Imagine a few Chaos Traitors killing a space marine terminator, they take a breath then a health bar appears over their bodies and the Terminator gets back up
I forget which one, but one of the Uriel Ventris Ultramarines novels heavily implies that the Legion are the ghosts of dead space marines manifesting in the material world. Trying not to spoil anything, but the Legion arrives to help repel a Chaos Marine attack and Uriel recognizes one of them as an Ultramarine.
I remember this one, they saw one of the legionaries have an Ultramarine insignia but it was upside down though there was other things on this ones armor that belonged to the Ultramarines
Its simple, the Emperor took a few hints of the myth about the Wild Hunt, from old Terran folklore. Then he added some elements of the Doomslayer to achieve optimal levels of demon slaying rage. He showed his work to Gork & Mork, then from their feedback, he added red hot rod flames to make them go faster. That is how he made his minor daemons.
Legion of the Damned in a nutshell: - Arive out of nowhere in times of need. - Kill everythink in sight, who do not praise the emperor - Leave without a trace gotta love them
@@mhraen NOT daemons loyal fallen spacemarines who belive in the Emperor and his dream, becouse for loyal Astartes not even in death duty ends, and one day i shall be among my brothers taking the charge against the enemys of the Imperium when the time Is most dire.
My head cannon has always been that this is what happened to the second legion. And they have been adding to there numbers since, taking the loyalist from Istvan, the fire hawks, and other marines throughout time and becoming the basic "Daemons" of the Emperor. With the goal to be the army the Emperor will need when he finally "fixes" his webway project.
I love the idea. The issue I have with this though is the destruction of the statues at the imperial palace. If the Primarch and legion were to have the honor and purpose of being the Emperor’s immaterial force, would they not retain their legion’s statue rather than having it dusted?
@@libertyfirst9280 Yeah the theory does have a lot of holes in it. The statue could have been because the Emperor was still trying to hide that fact that Chaos existed so he couldn't just tell the other Primarch's the truth and never got the chance after they learned about Chaos, or is trying to keep it a secret so the chaos gods don't try to ruin it.
Pretty sure the 2nd and 11th legions would have _no love_ for the Emperor, and wouldn't appear just to protect the troops of the man who wiped out their legion.
@@Green_Phos Of course we just DON'T KNOW with the 2nd and 11th Legions. To my knowledge nothing more than the fact that something happened with them that caused the Emperor to erase all mention of them from history aside from a few theories and hints here and there.
@@dr.michaelmarx3085 True, but there's a bunch of clues in the various novels that point to them being purposefully eliminated. The fact that all Imperial records were expunged under an edict of obliteration, meaning whatever happened, the Emperor wanted their very memory erased and forgotten. This is always done when someone or group is declared a traitor. You don't do this when you want to honor a legion. The two Primarchs were also each given a legion, so they and their Astartes were definitely active. Seeing the lengths the Emperor went through over the years in dealing with and putting up with Angron's bullshit, I think he's pretty forgiving when it comes to his Primarchs, so whatever they did, it was really, really bad. In one of the HH side novels, Sanguinius got angry when Horus suggested that he ask the Emperor to cure the Red Thirst, saying that he wouldn't be responsible for the Blood Angels being erased from memory and history and that there "won't be a third empty statue", referring to the 2nd and 11th Primarchs. There's also been hints that Russ and the Wolves were responsible for at least one of the legions destruction, on orders from the Emperor. So yes, nothing in this says they were 100% definitely killed but the lore we get heavily points in that direction.
You forgot the true origin of the Legion of the Damned: "A crack Astartes Chapter was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These super-soldiers promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to The Warp."
Now they operate as his true avenging angles. They appear on the battlefield, as gun welding ghost demons, hell bent on exterminating entities of the warp. If you have problem, and the Emperor hears your call. Maybe he will send, the legion of the damned...(sounds of bolters fire) "que the music".
I've always liked the idea that the legion are those traitors who realised their mistake and are damned by this realisation to serve the Emperor as penance until the end of times.
@ボイス possibly, I’ve seen that mentioned. It could be simply that the marines reflect whoever they assist as certain chapters might not want help from traitors former or not. Either way the legion is awesome and all the theories in the chat are equally cool!
Wow, haven’t heard of the theory for them to be a backlash of the betrayed loyalists of the traitor legions. That really is a cool theory I hope they sprinkle in with their lore. Rather than just demons of the emperor.
@Wolf Lord Rho You forgot to mention Uriel Ventris recognizes one of the LotD's armor, it's form Captain Ventanus, the hero of Calth. So not all LotD are from Istvan Massacre. And LotD weapons are from different eras within 10 thousand year.
Personally I love the idea of the Legion of the Damned being the equivalent of what Daemons are to the Chaos Gods but with the Emperor as their primary deity Since his entombment into the Golden Throne I feel like the Emperor has just been slowly growing into a positive/non malicious Warp entity, with all the Space Marines that die in battle joining the ranks of The Legion of The Damned in death and continue fighting for humanity
I love to think they are dead sons from Istvan being controlled by the Emperor just like a sorcerer controls Ruberic marines. The Emperor answering the call of his dying sons prayers in their time of dire need.
He also has Imperial Saints, they are similar to the legion of the damned in a way, appearing when hope is lost and turning the tide, then disappearing afterword. Greater Imperial daemons possibly?
@@voidstrider801 Ferrus Manus - Demon orince of the Emperor. Legion of the damned as troops, st. Celestine and Ferrus as HQ. ... Machine spirits as heavies?
Not really they can be the Firehawks since the warp can take you to different places in time in the Matererium, besides Firehawks claimed to be a ultramarines successor chapter but the ultra never confirmed the geneseed on Terra from the Firehawks does not match the ultra and even more the conversation between 2 Primarchs that claimed the number of the ultramarines bolstered unbelievably at the same time of the demise of the second legion... It would be nice to find out the reason for the Damned be the way they are is the especific geneseed of the second Primarch... Who we do not know if is dead since Leman Russ refused to talk about it
Great Video Rho! Always love to see some Legion of the Damned stuff on your channel :) So I have a few personal theories about the Legion of the Damned that I feel marry the new and old lore concerning them and their origins. The first time we see anything related to the Legion was when the Emperor and the Custodes fought the War in the Webway against the Daemonic hosts of the Ruinous Powers, and the spectral ghost of Ferrus Manus was leading the ghosts of the fallen of Istvaan against the Daemons. This gives credence to the part of their story that they are the psychic backlash from the defeat at Istvaan, and are summoned by the Will of the Emperor (essentially making them lesser daemons of the Emperor while things like Imperial Saints are greater daemons if you follow the line of belief that the Emperor has become a chaos god). The part with the Fire Hawks chapter, however, isn't entirely thrown out of the window so to speak. They were lost in the warp, the preeminent realm of all things psychic, and thus the realm of the Emperor's power and the "home" of the Legion of the Damned. A thousand loyalist souls crying out in the warp with the sheer loyalty and devotion of the Fire Hawks probably didn't just attract the powers of chaos, but also caught the eyes of the Legion of the Damned, and thus they "incorporated" the Fire Hawks into their ranks. Because it was the entirety of the Fire Hawks chapter and fleet that was lost in the warp, the Legion could have commandeered all of their assets, for there is a precedent for even their ships being bound to the Emperor: the Emperor's role as the Omnissiah to the Mechanicus (depending on which Forge World you get your gear from, some believe He is and some believe He isn't). Machine Spirits of considerable power and age are capable of doing some crazy things (like the one aboard the Ark Mechanicus "Speranza" for example), to the point that many speculate the Mechanicus has been using true AI for Millennia now and have simply forgotten how to interact with them. These ancient AI are capable of near sentience, and so if the Machine Spirit of Raptorus Rex was exposed to the true Omnissiah in the Warp, it probably eagerly joined the Fire Hawks in service to the Emperor as the flagship of the Legion of the Damned. Honestly it makes sense as we've seen the Raptorus Rex appear out of nowhere just as the Legion poofs into existence on the ground: during the Cholercaust Blood Crusade it was the spectral guns of the Raptorus Rex that blew apart the Keeler comet that the Blood Crusade was following through the galaxy. It also would make for a good story with the Imperial Navy where all hope seems lost in a space battle and then this massive star fort just warps in, blows up absolutely everything that isn't Imperial, and then leaves. My personal problem with the Legion of the Damned in this light, is that they have been shown to be led by a spectral Primarch, the dead Ferrus Manus, and we only see him during the War in the Webway. With all the traitor Primarchs starting to make their reappearances, and Guilliman fighting on the front lines, I feel the Legion needs to have Ferrus at the head again especially against Fulgrim and his Emperor's Children. It's gotta have like a major dick move by Manus though. Like the moment his Iron Hands appear on scene (just as Manus banished Fulgrim back to the Warp), spectral Ferrus would give his sons one long condescending glare, utter the words "You're late," and then just disappear with the rest of the Legion of the Damned. I would also like the Damned Legionnaires who face off against Fulgrim and his Slaaneshi cohorts to reveal themselves to the the Loyalist ghosts of the Tenth and Third Legions (Especially someone like Saul Tarvitz and Rylanor in there somewhere). Maybe not even a full armor change, but perhaps Fulgrim can see the psychic resonance of his former sons and calls them out in a tirade as he finds himself surrounded by Legion of the Damned warriors. "Who then shall it be to slay the Prince of Pleasure's finest champion?! Shall it be you, Tarvitz?! Rylanor?! You hide behind those death masks, but I know who you are! You are those sons of mine too weak to embrace the Path of Excess! Come then! Come and face me one last time my sons!" Then Manus appears from the midst of the Damned Legionnaires, shouldering his way through them just as the Emperor did with the Custodes in the Master of Mankind saying "No, brother. Today you will fight me." Fulgrim's eyes would go wide with a mixture of terror, sadness, excitement, and disbelief as he asks the towering, burning figure a question he already knows the answer to "Ferrus...?" The Gorgon would offer no reply, but simply attack. With his flame wreathed sword, he would strike Fulgrim's daemonic head from his serpentine body in almost perfect parody to the manner that Fulgrim slew Ferrus Manus on Istvaan V. The corrupted flesh of the Daemon Primarch's body with burn and boil away into nothingness, until only an echo of Fulgrim remained. But anyways that's my thoughts on the Legion of the Damned! Hope you all enjoyed and again, great job on your video Rho! :)
The legion is interesting and i love some of the theories. Ive long considered them Imperial demons at the service of the emperor within the warp based on the souls of dead marines...but that psycic backlash is really beautiful to think about.
I like have them on the table again, I don’t have a problem with them being in premiere is proportions I personally like the idea of them being some sort of ghost manifestation and the only reason they look like Primaris is that people think of primaris more and more and So they appear that way. I would actually like them to be a little bit bigger than any marine, make them larger than life. I would personally make them and patrolled detachment that doesn’t take command points, and can be taken by any imperial faction without breaking any of the rules.
Did you know the Legion of the Damned has had one character released? One Sergeant Centurius, had a piece of wargear (the skull he carries) that could suck the soul out of a model. Annoyingly, Centurius was only available for two days during the mid-90's for some event like store openings. Was able to buy one still in it's blister pack a few years back and for a 2nd model, it's a little small, but is one of the better models of the era.
I fondly remember one game of 3rd edition. I was playing my guard’s as light infantry (lots of troopers and sentenels) against dark eldar. On turn 3 the game’s host had 2 other players join the game to really mix it up. I groaned slightly when my 2nd opponent placed down night lords. I turned to my new partner and asked what did he have? He didn’t say a word and just started laying out marines that I hadn’t seen before, all that he said to me during the game was, the emperor provides.after that all he would do was say what his marines were doing and roll dice. After the game ended he started talking to me, he said that he was playing legion of the damned. He then started talking possible history and lore of the mystery chapter.
I got White Dwarf 99 when it came out here in the US. I agree with you about letting the Legion stay a mystery, even though the Fire Hawks will be my favorite. To have EVERYTHING taken from them and cursed with misery and death, to see them take the warp sickness and turn it into a weapon, and choose to keep up the good fight. "In service to the Emperor beyond the point of death". Great video!
If memory serves they sort of "collect" a tithe from the Excoriators, to replenish their numbers, after helping them, yes? Implying that's how they keep going. Anyways, thanks for the vid!
I dunno how novel this theory is but I'll share it anyway: The foundation is that the warp works for faith/belief the way an electromagnetic field works for charge. In the same way that you can harness an electric field to produce light or to deflect charges particles you harness belief/faith/willpower to manipulate the warp. In this regard the Legion are warp entities no different from any other deamon except in that they are far more precise in their manifestation, and in the same way that a rainbow needs a specific set of physical conditions to appear (bright sunlight, rainfall, particular angles) so to do the Legion need a specific set of emotional conditions. Specifically (but not perhaps precisely) they need the contradictory beliefs simultaneously that Imperial victory is inevitable and necessary but that the odds are insurmountable and for these to be felt strongly enough.
My theory is that the legion of the damned is the souls of marines that fought in previously in the battle they now take place in, and once the battle is won their souls can be put to rest, and I also think that these marines can only be seen in extreme circumstances, but are always around the fellow marines even if they can’t be seen, it’s a cool image for them and in my mind it makes sense, let me know your thoughts
This isn't a theory because the connection between the Legion of the Damned and the Loyalist Astartes was all but confirmed in the Master of Mankind book.
I’m definitely a “demons of the Emperor” man myself, which imo doesn’t preclude them from being souls of dead Space Marines. It just makes the most sense to me. Big E is essentially becoming (or has already become) a god in the warp. Such a bring would be able to manifest their own demons, and what form could be better for the Emperor than the Astartes? That also includes the Primaris. While I think it would take some time, as the deeds of the Primaris become known throughout the galaxy, I could see the Legion of the Damned slowly morphing their form in to Primaris Marines.
I remember aklong time ago when I played third edition there was a legion of the damned army in the GW store display cabinet featuring a chaplain built off of kharn the betrayer. One of the best conversions I've ever seen.
All good theories, I always thought they were just an elite unit created like that death watch with physic powers, deployed in the most dire situations. They appeared for RG when him and his followers were jammed up in the warp during his pilgrimage to see his father. They appeared for the grey knights to aid them. Maybe they draw their recruits from everywhere and nowhere. The 40k lore is soo vast and interesting, I’m 41 and I’m even more excited about this universe now then I was when I was in my 20’s.
The issue with them being a corporeal force is that they phase out when exposed to nulls or Necron Pylons. When the Cadian pylon network was activated the Legion disappeared along with the demons of chaos.
The novel Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders is one of the best I've read from GW in my opinion. A lot of epic warfare and features one of my favorite and badass Space Marines, Zachariah Kersh from the Excoriators Chapter.
"Even in death, I serve!" I used these guys in a couple of editions. They got better in 7th/8th, when you could give the Sgt, power fist, and combi-melta! I would run a 10man, with flamers, meltas, or heavy bolter, then deck the sgt out. The 3++, and the badass ap of their bolters! Hope they don't legacy these guys, and make a primaris set of them.
Too late for that last bit mate. Already gone legends though curiously gw keeps saying you can't select legion of the damned as your chapter keyword which to me implies there are plans in the making for them.
This is why I'm toying with the idea of making Legion of the Damned versions of all legions both firstborn and primaris, and both Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus in LotD styles
I’ll never forget that day. Going into a GW in the mall…seeing all the beautifully painted models and the green grass on the tabletop…these bastards caught my eye as a 13 year old the flames, the skulls and the black had me lol. It was quite sad when the reality of painting them set in and my models looked baaaaaad lol
Love the theory of them being spirits from Istvann, with the Gorgon at their head. Absolutely cannot beat that. He would approve of their uncompromising brutal efficiency too 👌
I prefer to think that the legion of the dammed is the soul's of every space marine from the great crusade to the horus heresy and beyond that and even those who died trying to become a space marine in the first place their wish granted though the legion of the dammed as well as those who fell to the darkness of chaos like the primarchs and their sons who when they die have their honourable and good parts of their souls added to the legion to serve the emperor to gain redemption in his eyes and I pefer to also think that all the guardsman who died in service of the emperor join the legion of the dammed as their support staff. What do you think lord wolf rho of this theory
Imagines fallen Death Korps of Krieg charging with flaming shovels alongside those legion of the damned marines, Lead by Ferrus Manus. Most enemies would shit themselves and run immediately. Meanwhile morale would be through the roof for the loyalists they just reinforced.
My favorite space marine models ever. I always wanted and army of them. with them mentioned in the new marine codex (rules section) i am super excited for what will happen with them next
I agree with TL And I’d like to see a short story where a SM sees his own burnt out markings on a member of the Legion power armor just to add that aspect of bewilderment
Great video. I have a custom Primaris Legion of the Damned army, and the lore (Imperial Daemons) that I've chosen as to how that's possible is from the Legion's 6th edition codex: "A darker premise, held by the renegade Inquisitor Quixos before he was slain by Gregor Eisenhorn, is that Humanity's omnipresent faith in the Emperor has bestowed upon the Master of Mankind a caste of supernatural agents. Just as the Dark Gods of Chaos have daemonic servants made of the same soul-stuff that sustains them, Quixos theorised that the Legionaries of the Damned were shards of the Emperor's will given form. Furthermore, the Inquisitor’s writings posit the idea that these ‘Engels Mortis’ could take a number of forms, just as the Daemons of the Ruinous Powers range from the diminutive to the colossal, and that their greater forms have yet to be recorded."
They certainly are beings of the warp, remember during Fall of Cadia not only Daemons were fading from reality when Necron Pylons started their work, the legions of the damned also faded: "... Others were not so fortunate. The Legion of the Damned, their presence in the mortal world ever inconstant, blinked out like wind-guttered candles, their flames snuffed by the pylons’ power. " This can give us only 1 option and that is they are truly the angels of death made manifest - warp entities created by the believes of billions of people and possibly shaped by Emperor powers or as I like to say Daemons of the Emperor.
Back then in my head canon i did consider them to be Dark Angels that survived the destruction of Caliban. Trapped in Time and Space and to repent are forced to fight in all eternity the enemies of humanity.
Legion of the Damned has a brief mention along with Grey Knights in the Non-Codex Compliant Chapters paragraph of the new Space Marine codex. They may not get primaris units since they aren't a selectable Chapter, but are still around in 9th.
I know this is an old video, but I love your channel and I've been diving in. I remember that old article and even reading Andy Chamber's personal notes on their creation (now if I remember those correctly is another story), but I love this idea of them being "imperial demons", the souls of loyalists who come back to save others when all hope is lost. The Firehawks still get credit as being the most, or first, recognizable members of the group. I'd love to see Ferrus leading them from the webway in a big battle, that makes my inner kid just want to lose it in a good way
Great video, I always love stories and discussions about this legion. I like the theory that they continue the fight for the emperor even after their betrayal.
One idea: the first member of the leigon are from the istvaan massacres. However as chapters fell, those loyalists lethality betrayed by their superiors reinforced the origin, so the fire hawks are leigonares of the damned. As are the traitor leigon loyalists.
A new vid on my Bday? Amazing!! Its of the Legion of the Damned?! EVEN FREAKING BETTER! @WoldLordRho I always had them in my head cannon, as Loyalist brothers born from Magnus the Red's legions. They seperated from him, and went begging to Girlyman's big family, and said we are firehawks now, and will hide with you. Only to be lost in the warp, and empowered by Our Holy Emperor!
I seem to recall a story about someone monitoring spacemarines in stasis. The tech realises all the readings are stable because they're all dead. Then the officer figure he's speaking to confirms it then kills the tech saying something like they always figure it out
My favorite theory is of the legion being extensions of the emperor himself, as if the emperor were a chaos god, and the legion his demons connected to him. Perhaps the emperor has been saving space marine souls from annihilation in the warp, and sending them out in only the most desperate of battles?
Yes i remember someone saying once that the emperor invoked some dead astartes during the great crusade So maybe its always been part of the emperors powers?
The very mystery you love so much Wolf Lord Rho, I do enjoy... to... a... point... but I'm sorry, but I see ABSOLUTELY no point in there being a mystery, if there is not eventually an answer given. Now, I always hated the whole common "Fire Hawks Chapter" theory. But I'd never heard of the concept of them possibly being a Warp Backlash of all those betrayed brothers on Isstvan and I will freely admit the idea blows my mind, it's truly legendary! I've figured for awhile now that they might be something of the Warp, with how tough they are and how they always appear and disappear right off a battlefield with zero warning. If that was the answer to the question, I'd be stoked and SO satisfied! I hope that's the canon answer GW gives one day! So much more satisfying than some unending and as such, to me at least, pointless mystery.
I could see a blend of things. The psychic echoes of loyal space marines who didn't get to die a worthy death, the daemons of the emperor, would find it easier to get into reality with hosts to help carry them. I'd say the fire hawks, and maybe other space marines who get lost in the warp, can become possessed by the fury of Legion of the Damned and carry them into battle, burning their flesh as an offering to the dead to help them carry out their final duties. So sometimes when you see the Legion they're pretty solid, and they need ships and so on, but there are also members of the Legion who are running on the fumes of their hosts' living mortality or who are even fully phantoms of the warp. It might also have something to do with the astartes' gene-seed having some small fraction of the same warp energy the primarchs have, so perhaps they're born from astartes whose gene-seed isn't harvested?
There was a short story in white dwarf around mid nineties that had a tech adapt in a secret lab. They looked through a door and saw someone working on a marine which they discribed as a legion of the damned marine. Upon seeing this they hurried away in their only to be shot by someone from the inquisition.
I have been binging your videos. You rock man me and my buddies have been listening to your 40k videos we love your accent and how passionate you are man! Keep it up!
Dark Angels, Legion of the Damned and the Mentor Chapter are favourites I've always been interested in, with the more recent addition of the Night Lords heretic Legion. Those would comprise my dream miniatures collection but alas I've only thirty Dark Angels to my name.
If the specter of Ferrus Manus were to appear, you have to wonder just what kind of hellishly dire war was being fought? Chaos in the Emperor's Throne Room perhaps?
I would love to see the Damned return My own head cannon was always that they were the souls of all traitor legion space marines who died loyal to the emperor to the bitter end. IT just made sense to me that the emperor wouldnt abandon his sons even in death if they stayed loyal to the end. LOve the video as always Rho, keep it up :)
I wanna say there was once a figure believed to be the spirit of Ferrus Mannus spotted among the Legion, don't remember where I heard this but the idea of Imperial souls returning to reap Vengeance and save homies is the most Big E shit I've ever heard.
One needs look no further than the tale of Rylanor, Ancient of Rites, to see the depths of hatred spawned by the Istvaan catastrophies. I would agree on the psychic backlash theory, personally
The theory I like that I have seen put forth by some is that they they are similar to the Imperial Saints, for the Sisters of Battle. That the Emperor is becoming a warp entity of his own and that the Legion are his, for lack of a better term "Lesser demons" and are sent by him to where they are needed most. He, at the current state of the game does not have huge hosts like the Chaos powers, as he is just beginning to become a warp entity, so that is why you don't see them all over the place, but you do see them where the need is the most dire. If I remember right, they showed up on the defense of Cadia, and were weakened much in the same way as Celestine, and other conjured warp entities, by the activation of the pylons. According to this theory, the Legion are the souls of departed loyal marines, that continue to serve the emperor, past the point of death. With something akin to a major demon being Saint Celestine, or something like that.
Some rumors imply they are the Emperor's psychic manifestation of Ferrus Manus and those who fell at Istvaan V. Ferrus, in particular, was known for his great temper, which resulted in wrath and vengeance against all enemies of the Imperium. When Horus was lamenting his own traitorous turn, he was asked who among his brothers he wished had come with him, he said, "Ferrus." When asked why, he summarized, "because he knew war." Could also be the Fire Hawks; or it may just remain a mystery and represent the Emperor's wrath and grief and so on.
I like the theory that they are escapees of istvan 5. The they have been operating and building of a (renegade or snd founding of istvan stoc) loyalist quasichapter sense. There were a number of remnants from various chapters running around on their own in the halisy and many of them became 2nd founding chapter.
I have not heard the theory of the Physic backlash of betrayed loyal Space Marines. But I like it. I do love the Legion of the Damned. Keep them a Mystery. There is sprinkling in the books about them. Also a Black Library book "LEGION OF THE DAMNED". Don't remember the Author, it's in my 40k book stack somewhere.
i'd like to see a strategem that allows you to turn one of your first born units into Legion of the Damned. 3 cp to give a tactical unit an invul save, ignore cover, and ignore battle shock
I have always loved the nuclear mushroom cloud chapter symbol, of the old-school Fire Hawks paint scheme. That is badass. But I agree, it was disappointing when they ruined the mystery behind the Legion.
I quite like the idea of them being one of the lost legions of The Purged parmarch and maybe the fire hawks where made from some of that lost parmarch geed seed
I like to think their origin is somewhere in the middle, after all some pieces of lore place the Primarch Ferrus Manus as part of the legion, so it's possible that the purge at Istavaan caused the initial spark that and the horror of betrayal felt by the Emperor and Imperium like the Daemons of Chaos they are that emotion given form (hinted at by the attuning of the black pillars which caused the legion to suddenly vanish and cause Saint Celestine to double over in pain). It's also possible that the surviving members of the Firehawks thanks to some psychic contagion essentially became another version of that
I really like the theory about vengeful istvaan loyalists, by I also think it would be cool I they were the legion of one of the forgotten primarchs. They still believe they're fighting for the emperor and so want to help the imperium wherever possible
Love the idea of them being fallen loyal Astartes from both the loyal and traitor legions at Istvaan.. As if that wasn't cool enough, being led by ghost Ferrus is the clincher - not sure how Vulkan would feel about it though ;)
I've personally enjoyed the theory around the Legion of the Damned that they're manifestations of the warp, daemons who manafest to fight for humanity at the will of the emperor, their divine god of order, taking the blazing form of his angels of death. His Wrath.
There's something Rho forgot to mention and that was an account of a modern era Ultramarine looking upon one of the Legion of the Damned and recognising the iconography and insignia of one of the Ultramarines Captains who died during the Horus Heresy. With that I would assume that the Legion of the Damned are ghosts of the Loyalists from the Horus Heresy. Loyalists of those slaughtered by their traitorous kin, Loyalists who refuse to give up serving the Imperium even in death.
@@Tyrnak_Fenrir It was confrmed in all but name because they don't mention the Legion of the Damned by name, but there is a scene in that book where the Emperor summons the souls of the loyalists who died during the Horus Heresy to fight for him. This includes Ferrus Manus.
Maybe I'm just a sappy guy, but I really do like the "hope" idea if only because my favorite aspect of the Astartes is the hope they inspire in the Emperor's armies. After all, the man who has nothing can still have faith.
LotD are Fire Hawks that were lost in the warp for a long time. After returning to normal space, they were corrupted by the warp and almost all of them died because of this. The ones still alive decorated their armor with the bones of their fallen brothers, and painted their armor black as tribute. The only thing keeping them sane/alive is the desire to serve the emperor and not give in to the corruption of the warp.
I think it's important to note the key word in the LoTD's name: Legion. I don't think there are any chapters with the word Legion in their name, and while I know that they only really ever show up with ~200 marines, this could very well be all that's left of one of the lost Legions, either the II or XI, given ghostly warpforms out of the Emperor's understanding and love for those who remained loyal amidst some great betrayal. There's also the possibility that they're a hodgepodge of marines from various chapters, or rather their spirits, collected from those with the strongest will and faith in the Emperor, being the only ones who are REALLY able to say "EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SERVE".
My head canon for the Legion of the Damned is that they're not the Firehawks as some say, but are the souls of Loyalist Astartes that have died during and after the Horus Heresy, from the Luna Wolves, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, and Death Guard from Istvann III, Iron Hands, Salamanders, and Raven Guard from Istvann V, Ultramarines from Calth, Dark Angels from the Thramas Crusade, Blood Angels from Signus Prime and Terra, White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, all of those who died in the Heresy, from the lowest scout to the greatest captains, with the protoforms of them appearing in the Human Webway. After ten millennia, He has perfected the Legion, forging them into what they are now, with some help from the Imperial Cult, due to them viewing the astartes as angels. Chances are the souls of the dead primarchs act as greater daemons of sorts, with the Living Saints acting the Imperial version of Daemon Princes.
Did Ventes note that when the LoTD came to help them against the Iron warriors he saw a family member among them or recognition of some sort. Been a minute since I read that book.
There is a story of another several squads Ultramarines who were in dire straights, and the Legion of the Damned appeared, turning the tide of battle. One of the Ultramarines recognized before the LOTD vanished once again, one of those under the crust of black, flame, and other things. A part of the stylised "U" on the shoulder armor. It makes one wonder if it wasn't just Istavan, but Calph along with many other loyalists who were laid low in betrayal. They have made other appearances The Devastation of Baal is one example.
In terms of a Legion of the Damned, I had a sneaking feeling ever since I saw them way back when, that, maybe... JUST maybe, they are one of the two forgotten original Legions.
I always thought them to be from various different legions/chapters who were lost in the Warp and appear when there is a gateway that allows them to return to normal space. But bec they have been in the warp for so long that fire manifests and they are driven to do what the emperor intended them for... all loyalists... all unbroken.
Ferrus' soul was phased out back to Medusa Necron complex when he was "killed". The only primarch that had a light show upon his death and it corresponds to Necron tech and the living metal must have been more advancing in his body.
I always liked the theory that they are the dead souls of all loyal SM, animated by the emperors will in the warp to become imperial daemons
This is just cannon to me. Fire hawks have nothing to do with it.
@Legion of the damned Damn, Firehawks need to moisturize
Imagine a few Chaos Traitors killing a space marine terminator, they take a breath then a health bar appears over their bodies and the Terminator gets back up
Becouse It Is so my fellow battle brothers, i shall endure a thousand deaths before i yield.
I'm new 2 warhammer but that sounds absolutely bad ass and I'm hoping that's the case
I forget which one, but one of the Uriel Ventris Ultramarines novels heavily implies that the Legion are the ghosts of dead space marines manifesting in the material world. Trying not to spoil anything, but the Legion arrives to help repel a Chaos Marine attack and Uriel recognizes one of them as an Ultramarine.
I remember this one, they saw one of the legionaries have an Ultramarine insignia but it was upside down though there was other things on this ones armor that belonged to the Ultramarines
I like this theory the most. The immortal avengers of the Emperor! Great book too!
I think both origins are true I just think the fire hawks joined them. And I think ferris manus is their primarch
@@manhunter433 an upside down ultramarine insignia? You mean an omega? Omegon lives confirmed
Wasn't that one legionnaire also the image of the dead guy in the tomb they were fighting in too?
Its simple, the Emperor took a few hints of the myth about the Wild Hunt, from old Terran folklore. Then he added some elements of the Doomslayer to achieve optimal levels of demon slaying rage. He showed his work to Gork & Mork, then from their feedback, he added red hot rod flames to make them go faster. That is how he made his minor daemons.
De RED wun iz alwayz FASTA!!!!!
@@glnburnz5772 RED FLAMES KILL FASTA
What.. is.. this.. HERESY!
Legion of the Damned in a nutshell:
- Arive out of nowhere in times of need.
- Kill everythink in sight, who do not praise the emperor
- Leave without a trace
gotta love them
Gotta love them imdeed, ghost riders in the sky...
They don't need prayers. They ARE the prayers.
Daemons ...Imperial daemons loyal only to the emperor...
@@mhraen NOT daemons loyal fallen spacemarines who belive in the Emperor and his dream, becouse for loyal Astartes not even in death duty ends, and one day i shall be among my brothers taking the charge against the enemys of the Imperium when the time Is most dire.
@@Dreadbringer Technically any entity summoned from the warp is a daemon. The thing is they are the emperors daemons.
They're probably lesser demons of the emperor made out of the souls of fallen loyalist astartes.
Daemon prince Gorgon
@@Tyrnak_Fenrir : Right, Ferrus deserves some spotlight after being killed so early in the Horus Heresy.
My head cannon has always been that this is what happened to the second legion. And they have been adding to there numbers since, taking the loyalist from Istvan, the fire hawks, and other marines throughout time and becoming the basic "Daemons" of the Emperor. With the goal to be the army the Emperor will need when he finally "fixes" his webway project.
I love the idea. The issue I have with this though is the destruction of the statues at the imperial palace. If the Primarch and legion were to have the honor and purpose of being the Emperor’s immaterial force, would they not retain their legion’s statue rather than having it dusted?
@@libertyfirst9280 Yeah the theory does have a lot of holes in it. The statue could have been because the Emperor was still trying to hide that fact that Chaos existed so he couldn't just tell the other Primarch's the truth and never got the chance after they learned about Chaos, or is trying to keep it a secret so the chaos gods don't try to ruin it.
Pretty sure the 2nd and 11th legions would have _no love_ for the Emperor, and wouldn't appear just to protect the troops of the man who wiped out their legion.
@@Green_Phos Of course we just DON'T KNOW with the 2nd and 11th Legions. To my knowledge nothing more than the fact that something happened with them that caused the Emperor to erase all mention of them from history aside from a few theories and hints here and there.
@@dr.michaelmarx3085 True, but there's a bunch of clues in the various novels that point to them being purposefully eliminated. The fact that all Imperial records were expunged under an edict of obliteration, meaning whatever happened, the Emperor wanted their very memory erased and forgotten. This is always done when someone or group is declared a traitor. You don't do this when you want to honor a legion. The two Primarchs were also each given a legion, so they and their Astartes were definitely active. Seeing the lengths the Emperor went through over the years in dealing with and putting up with Angron's bullshit, I think he's pretty forgiving when it comes to his Primarchs, so whatever they did, it was really, really bad.
In one of the HH side novels, Sanguinius got angry when Horus suggested that he ask the Emperor to cure the Red Thirst, saying that he wouldn't be responsible for the Blood Angels being erased from memory and history and that there "won't be a third empty statue", referring to the 2nd and 11th Primarchs. There's also been hints that Russ and the Wolves were responsible for at least one of the legions destruction, on orders from the Emperor.
So yes, nothing in this says they were 100% definitely killed but the lore we get heavily points in that direction.
You forgot the true origin of the Legion of the Damned: "A crack Astartes Chapter was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These super-soldiers promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to The Warp."
The A Team
If you have a problem that nobody else can solve, and can pay the outstanding tithe to the Emperor, maybe you can hire.....The A-Team
I love it when a plan comes together.
+1Kudos
Now they operate as his true avenging angles. They appear on the battlefield, as gun welding ghost demons, hell bent on exterminating entities of the warp. If you have problem, and the Emperor hears your call. Maybe he will send, the legion of the damned...(sounds of bolters fire) "que the music".
I've always liked the idea that the legion are those traitors who realised their mistake and are damned by this realisation to serve the Emperor as penance until the end of times.
@ボイス possibly, I’ve seen that mentioned. It could be simply that the marines reflect whoever they assist as certain chapters might not want help from traitors former or not. Either way the legion is awesome and all the theories in the chat are equally cool!
Wow, haven’t heard of the theory for them to be a backlash of the betrayed loyalists of the traitor legions. That really is a cool theory I hope they sprinkle in with their lore. Rather than just demons of the emperor.
There is a fantastic chapter in The Master of Mankind that lends HEVILY (like a Primarchs hammer) to this theory
ua-cam.com/video/sVA2oLzTrFQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=WolfLordRho *SPOLIERS* snippet of the afore mentioned novel
@Wolf Lord Rho
You forgot to mention Uriel Ventris recognizes one of the LotD's armor, it's form Captain Ventanus, the hero of Calth.
So not all LotD are from Istvan Massacre.
And LotD weapons are from different eras within 10 thousand year.
Personally I love the idea of the Legion of the Damned being the equivalent of what Daemons are to the Chaos Gods but with the Emperor as their primary deity
Since his entombment into the Golden Throne I feel like the Emperor has just been slowly growing into a positive/non malicious Warp entity, with all the Space Marines that die in battle joining the ranks of The Legion of The Damned in death and continue fighting for humanity
Seeing new “ old school “ marines would be class
I see you are a Man of culture.
I love to think they are dead sons from Istvan being controlled by the Emperor just like a sorcerer controls Ruberic marines. The Emperor answering the call of his dying sons prayers in their time of dire need.
Emperor looked at how chaos demons get brought from the warp and he thought hey that's a neat trick.
I always loved the idea of the LotD being Imperial deamons. Khorne has Bloodletters... the Emperor has the Legion of the Damned.
He also has Imperial Saints, they are similar to the legion of the damned in a way, appearing when hope is lost and turning the tide, then disappearing afterword. Greater Imperial daemons possibly?
@@voidstrider801 fallen loyalist Astartes(L. Of the Damned) & martyr héroes who died for mankind progress(saints).
@@voidstrider801 Ferrus Manus - Demon orince of the Emperor.
Legion of the damned as troops, st. Celestine and Ferrus as HQ. ... Machine spirits as heavies?
The marines wreathed in flame that appeared during the events of The Master of Mankind kind of invalidates the Fire Hawks theory.
Darnit! Im in the middle of that book right now!! Spoiler warnings, man!!
Lol!!
Both can be true.
Not really they can be the Firehawks since the warp can take you to different places in time in the
Matererium, besides Firehawks claimed to be a ultramarines successor chapter but the ultra never confirmed the geneseed on Terra from the Firehawks does not match the ultra and even more the conversation between 2 Primarchs that claimed the number of the ultramarines bolstered unbelievably at the same time of the demise of the second legion...
It would be nice to find out the reason for the Damned be the way they are is the especific geneseed of the second Primarch... Who we do not know if is dead since Leman Russ refused to talk about it
Great Video Rho! Always love to see some Legion of the Damned stuff on your channel :)
So I have a few personal theories about the Legion of the Damned that I feel marry the new and old lore concerning them and their origins. The first time we see anything related to the Legion was when the Emperor and the Custodes fought the War in the Webway against the Daemonic hosts of the Ruinous Powers, and the spectral ghost of Ferrus Manus was leading the ghosts of the fallen of Istvaan against the Daemons. This gives credence to the part of their story that they are the psychic backlash from the defeat at Istvaan, and are summoned by the Will of the Emperor (essentially making them lesser daemons of the Emperor while things like Imperial Saints are greater daemons if you follow the line of belief that the Emperor has become a chaos god). The part with the Fire Hawks chapter, however, isn't entirely thrown out of the window so to speak. They were lost in the warp, the preeminent realm of all things psychic, and thus the realm of the Emperor's power and the "home" of the Legion of the Damned. A thousand loyalist souls crying out in the warp with the sheer loyalty and devotion of the Fire Hawks probably didn't just attract the powers of chaos, but also caught the eyes of the Legion of the Damned, and thus they "incorporated" the Fire Hawks into their ranks. Because it was the entirety of the Fire Hawks chapter and fleet that was lost in the warp, the Legion could have commandeered all of their assets, for there is a precedent for even their ships being bound to the Emperor: the Emperor's role as the Omnissiah to the Mechanicus (depending on which Forge World you get your gear from, some believe He is and some believe He isn't). Machine Spirits of considerable power and age are capable of doing some crazy things (like the one aboard the Ark Mechanicus "Speranza" for example), to the point that many speculate the Mechanicus has been using true AI for Millennia now and have simply forgotten how to interact with them. These ancient AI are capable of near sentience, and so if the Machine Spirit of Raptorus Rex was exposed to the true Omnissiah in the Warp, it probably eagerly joined the Fire Hawks in service to the Emperor as the flagship of the Legion of the Damned. Honestly it makes sense as we've seen the Raptorus Rex appear out of nowhere just as the Legion poofs into existence on the ground: during the Cholercaust Blood Crusade it was the spectral guns of the Raptorus Rex that blew apart the Keeler comet that the Blood Crusade was following through the galaxy. It also would make for a good story with the Imperial Navy where all hope seems lost in a space battle and then this massive star fort just warps in, blows up absolutely everything that isn't Imperial, and then leaves.
My personal problem with the Legion of the Damned in this light, is that they have been shown to be led by a spectral Primarch, the dead Ferrus Manus, and we only see him during the War in the Webway. With all the traitor Primarchs starting to make their reappearances, and Guilliman fighting on the front lines, I feel the Legion needs to have Ferrus at the head again especially against Fulgrim and his Emperor's Children. It's gotta have like a major dick move by Manus though. Like the moment his Iron Hands appear on scene (just as Manus banished Fulgrim back to the Warp), spectral Ferrus would give his sons one long condescending glare, utter the words "You're late," and then just disappear with the rest of the Legion of the Damned. I would also like the Damned Legionnaires who face off against Fulgrim and his Slaaneshi cohorts to reveal themselves to the the Loyalist ghosts of the Tenth and Third Legions (Especially someone like Saul Tarvitz and Rylanor in there somewhere). Maybe not even a full armor change, but perhaps Fulgrim can see the psychic resonance of his former sons and calls them out in a tirade as he finds himself surrounded by Legion of the Damned warriors. "Who then shall it be to slay the Prince of Pleasure's finest champion?! Shall it be you, Tarvitz?! Rylanor?! You hide behind those death masks, but I know who you are! You are those sons of mine too weak to embrace the Path of Excess! Come then! Come and face me one last time my sons!" Then Manus appears from the midst of the Damned Legionnaires, shouldering his way through them just as the Emperor did with the Custodes in the Master of Mankind saying "No, brother. Today you will fight me." Fulgrim's eyes would go wide with a mixture of terror, sadness, excitement, and disbelief as he asks the towering, burning figure a question he already knows the answer to "Ferrus...?" The Gorgon would offer no reply, but simply attack. With his flame wreathed sword, he would strike Fulgrim's daemonic head from his serpentine body in almost perfect parody to the manner that Fulgrim slew Ferrus Manus on Istvaan V. The corrupted flesh of the Daemon Primarch's body with burn and boil away into nothingness, until only an echo of Fulgrim remained.
But anyways that's my thoughts on the Legion of the Damned! Hope you all enjoyed and again, great job on your video Rho! :)
The legion is interesting and i love some of the theories. Ive long considered them Imperial demons at the service of the emperor within the warp based on the souls of dead marines...but that psycic backlash is really beautiful to think about.
I think it works both ways for it. Their souls are the deamons under the Emperor.
I like have them on the table again, I don’t have a problem with them being in premiere is proportions
I personally like the idea of them being some sort of ghost manifestation and the only reason they look like Primaris is that people think of primaris more and more and So they appear that way.
I would actually like them to be a little bit bigger than any marine, make them larger than life.
I would personally make them and patrolled detachment that doesn’t take command points, and can be taken by any imperial faction without breaking any of the rules.
Did you know the Legion of the Damned has had one character released? One Sergeant Centurius, had a piece of wargear (the skull he carries) that could suck the soul out of a model. Annoyingly, Centurius was only available for two days during the mid-90's for some event like store openings. Was able to buy one still in it's blister pack a few years back and for a 2nd model, it's a little small, but is one of the better models of the era.
I fondly remember one game of 3rd edition. I was playing my guard’s as light infantry (lots of troopers and sentenels) against dark eldar. On turn 3 the game’s host had 2 other players join the game to really mix it up. I groaned slightly when my 2nd opponent placed down night lords. I turned to my new partner and asked what did he have? He didn’t say a word and just started laying out marines that I hadn’t seen before, all that he said to me during the game was, the emperor provides.after that all he would do was say what his marines were doing and roll dice. After the game ended he started talking to me, he said that he was playing legion of the damned. He then started talking possible history and lore of the mystery chapter.
I got White Dwarf 99 when it came out here in the US. I agree with you about letting the Legion stay a mystery, even though the Fire Hawks will be my favorite. To have EVERYTHING taken from them and cursed with misery and death, to see them take the warp sickness and turn it into a weapon, and choose to keep up the good fight. "In service to the Emperor beyond the point of death". Great video!
If memory serves they sort of "collect" a tithe from the Excoriators, to replenish their numbers, after helping them, yes? Implying that's how they keep going. Anyways, thanks for the vid!
I dunno how novel this theory is but I'll share it anyway: The foundation is that the warp works for faith/belief the way an electromagnetic field works for charge. In the same way that you can harness an electric field to produce light or to deflect charges particles you harness belief/faith/willpower to manipulate the warp. In this regard the Legion are warp entities no different from any other deamon except in that they are far more precise in their manifestation, and in the same way that a rainbow needs a specific set of physical conditions to appear (bright sunlight, rainfall, particular angles) so to do the Legion need a specific set of emotional conditions. Specifically (but not perhaps precisely) they need the contradictory beliefs simultaneously that Imperial victory is inevitable and necessary but that the odds are insurmountable and for these to be felt strongly enough.
My theory is that the legion of the damned is the souls of marines that fought in previously in the battle they now take place in, and once the battle is won their souls can be put to rest, and I also think that these marines can only be seen in extreme circumstances, but are always around the fellow marines even if they can’t be seen, it’s a cool image for them and in my mind it makes sense, let me know your thoughts
I loved ur theory!
This isn't a theory because the connection between the Legion of the Damned and the Loyalist Astartes was all but confirmed in the Master of Mankind book.
I’m definitely a “demons of the Emperor” man myself, which imo doesn’t preclude them from being souls of dead Space Marines. It just makes the most sense to me. Big E is essentially becoming (or has already become) a god in the warp. Such a bring would be able to manifest their own demons, and what form could be better for the Emperor than the Astartes?
That also includes the Primaris. While I think it would take some time, as the deeds of the Primaris become known throughout the galaxy, I could see the Legion of the Damned slowly morphing their form in to Primaris Marines.
I remember aklong time ago when I played third edition there was a legion of the damned army in the GW store display cabinet featuring a chaplain built off of kharn the betrayer. One of the best conversions I've ever seen.
All good theories, I always thought they were just an elite unit created like that death watch with physic powers, deployed in the most dire situations.
They appeared for RG when him and his followers were jammed up in the warp during his pilgrimage to see his father. They appeared for the grey knights to aid them.
Maybe they draw their recruits from everywhere and nowhere.
The 40k lore is soo vast and interesting, I’m 41 and I’m even more excited about this universe now then I was when I was in my 20’s.
The issue with them being a corporeal force is that they phase out when exposed to nulls or Necron Pylons. When the Cadian pylon network was activated the Legion disappeared along with the demons of chaos.
The novel Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders is one of the best I've read from GW in my opinion. A lot of epic warfare and features one of my favorite and badass Space Marines, Zachariah Kersh from the Excoriators Chapter.
"Even in death, I serve!"
I used these guys in a couple of editions. They got better in 7th/8th, when you could give the Sgt, power fist, and combi-melta! I would run a 10man, with flamers, meltas, or heavy bolter, then deck the sgt out. The 3++, and the badass ap of their bolters! Hope they don't legacy these guys, and make a primaris set of them.
There are files available to convert these guys to primaris
@@shanem8145 for official GW use?
Too late for that last bit mate. Already gone legends though curiously gw keeps saying you can't select legion of the damned as your chapter keyword which to me implies there are plans in the making for them.
This is why I'm toying with the idea of making Legion of the Damned versions of all legions both firstborn and primaris, and both Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus in LotD styles
Go for It.
I’ll never forget that day. Going into a GW in the mall…seeing all the beautifully painted models and the green grass on the tabletop…these bastards caught my eye as a 13 year old the flames, the skulls and the black had me lol. It was quite sad when the reality of painting them set in and my models looked baaaaaad lol
"You best start believing in ghost stories Miss Turner, you're in one".
Bjorn the fell handed should recognize one of the legion of the damned
Memory Is a foggy thing for dreadnoughts.
@Iron Hands Terminator He can see daemons well enough!
The Legion off the Damned are Imperial “daemons” like Celestine. At least that’s what I think.
Love the theory of them being spirits from Istvann, with the Gorgon at their head. Absolutely cannot beat that.
He would approve of their uncompromising brutal efficiency too 👌
I prefer to think that the legion of the dammed is the soul's of every space marine from the great crusade to the horus heresy and beyond that and even those who died trying to become a space marine in the first place their wish granted though the legion of the dammed as well as those who fell to the darkness of chaos like the primarchs and their sons who when they die have their honourable and good parts of their souls added to the legion to serve the emperor to gain redemption in his eyes and I pefer to also think that all the guardsman who died in service of the emperor join the legion of the dammed as their support staff.
What do you think lord wolf rho of this theory
Imagines fallen Death Korps of Krieg charging with flaming shovels alongside those legion of the damned marines, Lead by Ferrus Manus. Most enemies would shit themselves and run immediately. Meanwhile morale would be through the roof for the loyalists they just reinforced.
@@voidstrider801 exactly but imagine the cadin shock as legion of the dammed the looks of the black legion would be priceless
I like the idea that they’re the shells of psykers consumed by the golden throne
My favorite space marine models ever. I always wanted and army of them.
with them mentioned in the new marine codex (rules section) i am super excited for what will happen with them next
I agree with TL And I’d like to see a short story where a SM sees his own burnt out markings on a member of the Legion power armor just to add that aspect of bewilderment
Great video. I have a custom Primaris Legion of the Damned army, and the lore (Imperial Daemons) that I've chosen as to how that's possible is from the Legion's 6th edition codex:
"A darker premise, held by the renegade Inquisitor Quixos before he was slain by Gregor Eisenhorn, is that Humanity's omnipresent faith in the Emperor has bestowed upon the Master of Mankind a caste of supernatural agents. Just as the Dark Gods of Chaos have daemonic servants made of the same soul-stuff that sustains them, Quixos theorised that the Legionaries of the Damned were shards of the Emperor's will given form. Furthermore, the Inquisitor’s writings posit the idea that these ‘Engels Mortis’ could take a number of forms, just as the Daemons of the Ruinous Powers range from the diminutive to the colossal, and that their greater forms have yet to be recorded."
Yeah the Legion!!!! I personaly love the first one u talk about the Istbaan Massacre.
They certainly are beings of the warp, remember during Fall of Cadia not only Daemons were fading from reality when Necron Pylons started their work, the legions of the damned also faded: "... Others were not so fortunate. The Legion of the Damned, their presence in the mortal world ever inconstant, blinked out like wind-guttered candles, their flames snuffed by the pylons’ power. " This can give us only 1 option and that is they are truly the angels of death made manifest - warp entities created by the believes of billions of people and possibly shaped by Emperor powers or as I like to say Daemons of the Emperor.
Loved this, given me some inspiration for my own homebrew chapter involving Space Wolves/Legion of the Damned themes. Keep up the awesome work!
Finally someone is talking about theme ! In the 8th édition I only saw Kirioth talking about it.
Back then in my head canon i did consider them to be Dark Angels that survived the destruction of Caliban.
Trapped in Time and Space and to repent are forced to fight in all eternity the enemies of humanity.
I love the idea of them being the psychic backlash of all the betrayals from the massacre from Isstvan V.
Legion of the Damned has a brief mention along with Grey Knights in the Non-Codex Compliant Chapters paragraph of the new Space Marine codex. They may not get primaris units since they aren't a selectable Chapter, but are still around in 9th.
Gather around, the Emperor has blessed us with a Wolf Lord Rho video. By the Emperor's light, it's the legion of the damned!!!
I know this is an old video, but I love your channel and I've been diving in. I remember that old article and even reading Andy Chamber's personal notes on their creation (now if I remember those correctly is another story), but I love this idea of them being "imperial demons", the souls of loyalists who come back to save others when all hope is lost. The Firehawks still get credit as being the most, or first, recognizable members of the group. I'd love to see Ferrus leading them from the webway in a big battle, that makes my inner kid just want to lose it in a good way
Great video, I always love stories and discussions about this legion. I like the theory that they continue the fight for the emperor even after their betrayal.
One idea: the first member of the leigon are from the istvaan massacres. However as chapters fell, those loyalists lethality betrayed by their superiors reinforced the origin, so the fire hawks are leigonares of the damned. As are the traitor leigon loyalists.
Once me and my battle brother once thought we saw a Legionnaire, unfortunately it was just 3 of our brothers flaming a renegade.
A new vid on my Bday? Amazing!! Its of the Legion of the Damned?! EVEN FREAKING BETTER!
@WoldLordRho I always had them in my head cannon, as Loyalist brothers born from Magnus the Red's legions. They seperated from him, and went begging to Girlyman's big family, and said we are firehawks now, and will hide with you. Only to be lost in the warp, and empowered by Our Holy Emperor!
I seem to recall a story about someone monitoring spacemarines in stasis. The tech realises all the readings are stable because they're all dead. Then the officer figure he's speaking to confirms it then kills the tech saying something like they always figure it out
My favorite theory is of the legion being extensions of the emperor himself, as if the emperor were a chaos god, and the legion his demons connected to him. Perhaps the emperor has been saving space marine souls from annihilation in the warp, and sending them out in only the most desperate of battles?
Yes i remember someone saying once that the emperor invoked some dead astartes during the great crusade
So maybe its always been part of the emperors powers?
@@DeadWayfes maybe?
The very mystery you love so much Wolf Lord Rho, I do enjoy... to... a... point... but I'm sorry, but I see ABSOLUTELY no point in there being a mystery, if there is not eventually an answer given. Now, I always hated the whole common "Fire Hawks Chapter" theory. But I'd never heard of the concept of them possibly being a Warp Backlash of all those betrayed brothers on Isstvan and I will freely admit the idea blows my mind, it's truly legendary! I've figured for awhile now that they might be something of the Warp, with how tough they are and how they always appear and disappear right off a battlefield with zero warning. If that was the answer to the question, I'd be stoked and SO satisfied! I hope that's the canon answer GW gives one day! So much more satisfying than some unending and as such, to me at least, pointless mystery.
I could see a blend of things. The psychic echoes of loyal space marines who didn't get to die a worthy death, the daemons of the emperor, would find it easier to get into reality with hosts to help carry them. I'd say the fire hawks, and maybe other space marines who get lost in the warp, can become possessed by the fury of Legion of the Damned and carry them into battle, burning their flesh as an offering to the dead to help them carry out their final duties. So sometimes when you see the Legion they're pretty solid, and they need ships and so on, but there are also members of the Legion who are running on the fumes of their hosts' living mortality or who are even fully phantoms of the warp. It might also have something to do with the astartes' gene-seed having some small fraction of the same warp energy the primarchs have, so perhaps they're born from astartes whose gene-seed isn't harvested?
There was a short story in white dwarf around mid nineties that had a tech adapt in a secret lab. They looked through a door and saw someone working on a marine which they discribed as a legion of the damned marine. Upon seeing this they hurried away in their only to be shot by someone from the inquisition.
I have been binging your videos. You rock man me and my buddies have been listening to your 40k videos we love your accent and how passionate you are man! Keep it up!
I hope The Legion get a refreshed line of the old school marines, with the icing on the cake being a 'shard' Ferrus Manus.
I was always under the impression the fire hawks were lost in the warp. And the legion are truly specters of a kind.
Dark Angels, Legion of the Damned and the Mentor Chapter are favourites I've always been interested in, with the more recent addition of the Night Lords heretic Legion. Those would comprise my dream miniatures collection but alas I've only thirty Dark Angels to my name.
If the specter of Ferrus Manus were to appear, you have to wonder just what kind of hellishly dire war was being fought? Chaos in the Emperor's Throne Room perhaps?
I want a whole new box with a lot of this models.
I would love to see the Damned return
My own head cannon was always that they were the souls of all traitor legion space marines who died loyal to the emperor to the bitter end.
IT just made sense to me that the emperor wouldnt abandon his sons even in death if they stayed loyal to the end.
LOve the video as always Rho, keep it up :)
Also the legion is confirmed (kinda) to be death astartes (Ventris books)
I wanna say there was once a figure believed to be the spirit of Ferrus Mannus spotted among the Legion, don't remember where I heard this but the idea of Imperial souls returning to reap Vengeance and save homies is the most Big E shit I've ever heard.
One needs look no further than the tale of Rylanor, Ancient of Rites, to see the depths of hatred spawned by the Istvaan catastrophies. I would agree on the psychic backlash theory, personally
The theory I like that I have seen put forth by some is that they they are similar to the Imperial Saints, for the Sisters of Battle. That the Emperor is becoming a warp entity of his own and that the Legion are his, for lack of a better term "Lesser demons" and are sent by him to where they are needed most. He, at the current state of the game does not have huge hosts like the Chaos powers, as he is just beginning to become a warp entity, so that is why you don't see them all over the place, but you do see them where the need is the most dire. If I remember right, they showed up on the defense of Cadia, and were weakened much in the same way as Celestine, and other conjured warp entities, by the activation of the pylons. According to this theory, the Legion are the souls of departed loyal marines, that continue to serve the emperor, past the point of death. With something akin to a major demon being Saint Celestine, or something like that.
Some rumors imply they are the Emperor's psychic manifestation of Ferrus Manus and those who fell at Istvaan V. Ferrus, in particular, was known for his great temper, which resulted in wrath and vengeance against all enemies of the Imperium. When Horus was lamenting his own traitorous turn, he was asked who among his brothers he wished had come with him, he said, "Ferrus." When asked why, he summarized, "because he knew war." Could also be the Fire Hawks; or it may just remain a mystery and represent the Emperor's wrath and grief and so on.
I like the theory that they are escapees of istvan 5. The they have been operating and building of a (renegade or snd founding of istvan stoc) loyalist quasichapter sense. There were a number of remnants from various chapters running around on their own in the halisy and many of them became 2nd founding chapter.
I have not heard the theory of the Physic backlash of betrayed loyal Space Marines. But I like it. I do love the Legion of the Damned. Keep them a Mystery. There is sprinkling in the books about them. Also a Black Library book "LEGION OF THE DAMNED". Don't remember the Author, it's in my 40k book stack somewhere.
i'd like to see a strategem that allows you to turn one of your first born units into Legion of the Damned. 3 cp to give a tactical unit an invul save, ignore cover, and ignore battle shock
I have always loved the nuclear mushroom cloud chapter symbol, of the old-school Fire Hawks paint scheme. That is badass. But I agree, it was disappointing when they ruined the mystery behind the Legion.
I really like the theory of them being deamons of the Emperor as he becomes more and more of a Chaos God.
I quite like the idea of them being one of the lost legions of The Purged parmarch and maybe the fire hawks where made from some of that lost parmarch geed seed
I like to think their origin is somewhere in the middle, after all some pieces of lore place the Primarch Ferrus Manus as part of the legion, so it's possible that the purge at Istavaan caused the initial spark that and the horror of betrayal felt by the Emperor and Imperium like the Daemons of Chaos they are that emotion given form (hinted at by the attuning of the black pillars which caused the legion to suddenly vanish and cause Saint Celestine to double over in pain). It's also possible that the surviving members of the Firehawks thanks to some psychic contagion essentially became another version of that
Loved the Legion of the Damned Novel, the Excoriators are a badass Imperial Fists successor chapter
I personally like the idea that they are warpspawn made manifest to protect humanity or that they are the manifestation of humanity's will to survive.
I really like the theory about vengeful istvaan loyalists, by I also think it would be cool I they were the legion of one of the forgotten primarchs. They still believe they're fighting for the emperor and so want to help the imperium wherever possible
The theory about the Legion of the Damned being loyalists who died during the Horus Heresy was confirmed in the book Master of Mankind.
Love the idea of them being fallen loyal Astartes from both the loyal and traitor legions at Istvaan.. As if that wasn't cool enough, being led by ghost Ferrus is the clincher - not sure how Vulkan would feel about it though ;)
I liked Arch’s theory in how they are essentially demons of the Emperor that are sent in at the Darkest hour.
One of the best Mysteries of 40k The Legion of The Damned !
Human endurance is a common theme 40k, so the Legion being a manifestation of that refusal to give in to the horrors of the galaxy fits thematically
I've personally enjoyed the theory around the Legion of the Damned that they're manifestations of the warp, daemons who manafest to fight for humanity at the will of the emperor, their divine god of order, taking the blazing form of his angels of death. His Wrath.
Personally I always thought they were the marines from Isstvan III.
There's something Rho forgot to mention and that was an account of a modern era Ultramarine looking upon one of the Legion of the Damned and recognising the iconography and insignia of one of the Ultramarines Captains who died during the Horus Heresy.
With that I would assume that the Legion of the Damned are ghosts of the Loyalists from the Horus Heresy. Loyalists of those slaughtered by their traitorous kin, Loyalists who refuse to give up serving the Imperium even in death.
I love the theory that they are the betrayed, the ones killed either on Istvan, or during the Heresy. The betrayed and the defenders of humanity.
Have you read the Horus Heresy book Master of Manking because this isn't a theory anymore.
@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 I haven't read it, was it confirmed or debunked?
@@Tyrnak_Fenrir It was confrmed in all but name because they don't mention the Legion of the Damned by name, but there is a scene in that book where the Emperor summons the souls of the loyalists who died during the Horus Heresy to fight for him.
This includes Ferrus Manus.
Maybe I'm just a sappy guy, but I really do like the "hope" idea if only because my favorite aspect of the Astartes is the hope they inspire in the Emperor's armies. After all, the man who has nothing can still have faith.
Isstvan, no question.
This is a unique legion, it needs a unique event, of greater gravity, to bring it about.
LotD are Fire Hawks that were lost in the warp for a long time. After returning to normal space, they were corrupted by the warp and almost all of them died because of this. The ones still alive decorated their armor with the bones of their fallen brothers, and painted their armor black as tribute. The only thing keeping them sane/alive is the desire to serve the emperor and not give in to the corruption of the warp.
I think it's important to note the key word in the LoTD's name: Legion.
I don't think there are any chapters with the word Legion in their name, and while I know that they only really ever show up with ~200 marines, this could very well be all that's left of one of the lost Legions, either the II or XI, given ghostly warpforms out of the Emperor's understanding and love for those who remained loyal amidst some great betrayal.
There's also the possibility that they're a hodgepodge of marines from various chapters, or rather their spirits, collected from those with the strongest will and faith in the Emperor, being the only ones who are REALLY able to say "EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SERVE".
My head canon for the Legion of the Damned is that they're not the Firehawks as some say, but are the souls of Loyalist Astartes that have died during and after the Horus Heresy, from the Luna Wolves, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, and Death Guard from Istvann III, Iron Hands, Salamanders, and Raven Guard from Istvann V, Ultramarines from Calth, Dark Angels from the Thramas Crusade, Blood Angels from Signus Prime and Terra, White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, all of those who died in the Heresy, from the lowest scout to the greatest captains, with the protoforms of them appearing in the Human Webway. After ten millennia, He has perfected the Legion, forging them into what they are now, with some help from the Imperial Cult, due to them viewing the astartes as angels. Chances are the souls of the dead primarchs act as greater daemons of sorts, with the Living Saints acting the Imperial version of Daemon Princes.
I used to play legion back in 5th, love the models and the fluff.. My favorite backstory is the psycic backlash one.
Did Ventes note that when the LoTD came to help them against the Iron warriors he saw a family member among them or recognition of some sort. Been a minute since I read that book.
There is a story of another several squads Ultramarines who were in dire straights, and the Legion of the Damned appeared, turning the tide of battle. One of the Ultramarines recognized before the LOTD vanished once again, one of those under the crust of black, flame, and other things. A part of the stylised "U" on the shoulder armor. It makes one wonder if it wasn't just Istavan, but Calph along with many other loyalists who were laid low in betrayal. They have made other appearances The Devastation of Baal is one example.
In terms of a Legion of the Damned, I had a sneaking feeling ever since I saw them way back when, that, maybe... JUST maybe, they are one of the two forgotten original Legions.
I always thought them to be from various different legions/chapters who were lost in the Warp and appear when there is a gateway that allows them to return to normal space. But bec they have been in the warp for so long that fire manifests and they are driven to do what the emperor intended them for... all loyalists... all unbroken.
Ferrus' soul was phased out back to Medusa Necron complex when he was "killed". The only primarch that had a light show upon his death and it corresponds to Necron tech and the living metal must have been more advancing in his body.