I’m a Lutheran who has lived in Utah my whole life. But the way the missionaries described it to me was that because of all the persecution that was going on, the full gospel was withheld. Then once God knew the entire gospel would survive, he revealed it to Joseph smith. That’s also why that one speaker at general conference called the BoM the most true book ever, because they believe the Bible has some issues due to human corruption over the years whereas the Book of Mormon was transcribed from its original form on the tablets and has remained true ever since.
@@dylanmoore2438 Yes, as someone who was raised LDS, this is another aspect of the Great Apostasy that is taught. The LDS Church teaches that many "pure and simple" parts of the gospel were removed from the Bible during this time of apostasy, which is another reason given for why the Book of Mormon was necessary: to restore those teachings.
I'm looking forward to your exploration and perspective on the LDS view of priesthood! I think that will fill in any gaps that this great explanation by David Snell had. As an LDS member, I'm grateful for living prophets that can provide revelation pertinent to me in our day. It gives me additional guidance to complement my scripture study and prayer. The priesthood explanation will also likely fill in some gaps on our view on ordinances as it relates to the apostasy that the video mentioned but didn't detail. Thank you, Jeff, for always sharing your beliefs, it's true that "where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
I am all about facts and truth. Great apostasy makes sense why God is the same yesterday; today; and forever. That is why he will always call a prophet to lead his children and have a true organization with His priesthood restored to do ordinances correctly. So yes; the priesthood is very important and please keep learning it and how Joseph Smith received it from God. Plaster Jeff every LDS member who has the priesthood can trace back their priesthood authority back to Jesus Christ.
I think you can't really understand the great apostasy without understanding all of the other apostasies that occurred throughout scripture. Enoch, Moses, Elijah and many other prophets were called to restore priesthood keys at individual times. The history of the world has a pattern of apostasy and restoration that is evidence of God's love and constancy toward his children.
I'm a Latter-day Saint, and I just want to say that for as long as I have known other Christians in my life I have always admired among the Protestants the depth and sincerity of their discipleship of Jesus Christ. Hearing you speak of Him with such love and devotion fills my heart and soul with just as much joy as my own worship experience does in our chapels and temples and in my own study. I see you as a brother in Christ, and I also sincerely appreciate your efforts to understand our perspective. You are by far the most genuine example of this that I have come across.
I agree. I am also LDS, and I find these videos to demonstrate the love of Christ in every word and deed. It's the absolute love of Christ and his testimony that resonates with me.
That is a lovely message to this sweet Pastor. He is an outstanding man of God. His goodness and gentleness touch my spirit as Jesus has throughout my life. He is truly a Godsend. The Lord is working through him. I feel. And uniting Christians all over the world.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose There is no salvation in the LDS church or Islam. I Corinthians 15 tells us what the true gospel is. Jesus Christ shed his blood, died and rose again. Christ did the one work that was necessary to reconcile all mankind to God. It is not about what you can do for God but about what God has already done for you by sending Jesus Christ to be your substitute on the cross. All you need to read is lay all your religiosity down at the foot of the cross and accept Christ by faith.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose You are definitely responsible for your own sins. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Leviticus 17 You need a blood sacrifice.
I served an LDS mission in the mid-east states, and it was my pleasure to interact with many different Christian denominations. In this day and age when there is so much trying to erode the values of all Christians, it is so important that we stand together in our belief in Christ. I absolutely love the openness that you are approaching our teachings, trying to understand, but not judge or condemn. Thanks for being a great example!
@@TheRonster1954 you people obsess much more about this relationship than we do. It is never mentioned once in all the Book of Mormon and other scriptures of the restoration. It is a footnote, an afterthought, a logical extrapolation from the primary (and amply scriptural) facts that God is our Father in heaven, and Jesus Christ is His Firstborn. Those truths are our focus.
@Empisee additionally to that, the one significance to understanding that Satan is a fallen sibling in spirit, along with all his angels, is that not only are we being attacked by an entity Hates us and God, but an entity that KNOWS us personally and therefore knows HOW to hurt us and tear us down. Understanding the reality of our enemy is the first line of defense.
@@wheels636 I would love very much to agree with everything that you said. But the fact that your faith teaches you that even Heavenly Father was once simply a man who had a god before himself, that's simply not the God of the Bible who never was not eternal God. You've heard this before, I'm almost sure. So, how can we walk together if we are not headed in the same diection to the same destination?
I’m LDS and I wish more people would learn about each other’s religions the way that you are doing. You do it with respect. You don’t have anger and it’s great to see what Protestants believe too.
Actually he tries to tear down the church of Jesus Christ of ladder day saints with a very clever “ trying to understand and investigate approach” Like a passive aggressive compliment. He spends little to no time really investigating in an unbiased journalist approach. He is a paid preacher belonging to a denomination that would never allow him to be impartial in his approach. Does he take a theological view of other churches and see how a particular aspect of belief and doctrine are incorporated, no. His church like many churches are losing membership. This is a subtle, clever and non aggressive way to attack a particular theology . He has never responded to me, nor do I think he ever will. The great deceiver does not always appear as a horned beast or fanged serpent. Be aware of his subtle sweet kind presentations. There is and end game at hand.
@@richardchandler9027 That hasn’t been my experience watching his videos. His videos seem to follow a pattern. 1. Listen to LDS church teachings to understand the LDS religion 2. Say what he likes or dislikes about those teachings 3. Talk about what he believes and what Protestants believe. I don’t feel any malice or hate from his videos. In one of his videos he defends Latter Day Saints during our general conference when he saw people yelling at people while going to General Conference. Even while defending us it wasn’t with anger and it was a very peaceful encounter. At no point did I feel he was trying to lead LDS members away. I think it’s interesting to hear what he believes versus what we believe. Nothing he says changes my beliefs, but we can all listen for understanding just as he does in his videos. Just because he understands what we believe doesn’t mean he has to change what he believes.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose the church announced support for a bill promising to safeguard both the LGBTQ right to marriage and the right of religious institutions to choose which marriages to perform, which is not the same as accepting and supporting same sex marriage
@@youarecreatedforapurpose It sounds like the hereafter in Islam is similar to the Mormon or LDS church are similar. But I will study Islam because I belive we have the same God. Just different prophets. Thanks for the note.
For those interested, here’s an LDS perspective on the passage about Peter. “The Greek text makes it clear that the “rock” in verse 18 was not Peter. The Greek word used for Peter is petros, a masculine noun meaning a small rock or stone. The Greek word for rock (“upon this rock”) is petra, a feminine noun meaning bedrock. Thus, the Greek text reads like this: “Thou art Peter [petros, small rock], and upon this rock [petra, bedrock] I will build my church.” In other words, Christ is the rock. There is no other rock we can build on, including Peter, that will bring us Salvation. Christ is the only rock we can build on with any confidence. Matthew 16:16-17 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
As I read it, he said that flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. In other words it was a personal revelation to Peter from God the Father. That is the rock that the true Church is founded on. Without personal revelation there is no rock and no true Church. That's how a falling away happens. Short of that is all lip service.
@@davidjanbaz7728 so true. Matthew also teaches that you will know them by their fruits. The fruit of Joseph Smith is The Book of Mormon. To know if he was a false prophet, you will need to read that book with an open heart and contrite spirit to God and then ask God in prayer if the book’s message is true. God will then reveal the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. I believe that God will answer all sincere seekers of truth.
@David Gillis going off that, God answers in his own time. I've known people, myself included, that have received answers to questions right away. And I've known people, myself included, that had to wait. On top of that, I've met people that received prompt answers to questions regarding the book of Mormon, and I've met people that had to wait. Waiting on the Lord, it's does not mean going on with your business. It means testing what He says. Live it, prove it, and the answers will come. I was invited to attend the baptism of a man who married a member of the church 19 years before. Loved her, supported her, went to church with her, held callings in the ward, raised his children LDS. But he was never baptized in those 19 years because he hadn't yet received an answer. But he kept living the gospel with his family, waiting for an answer. U til one night, on a business trip, he some up in the middle of the night and got his answer. And he made arrangements to be baptized.
@@davidjanbaz7728 All the Prophets were mocked, stoned, driven out and killed, including Jesus Christ, his Apostles, and many of his followers. Joseph Smith was also mocked, driven out and killed. But the work which he began, continues on because it is the work of God.
So, that’s not just a LDS idea. Most Christians would agree that Jesus is our rock. Roman Catholics see that verse as meaning the Apostle Peter. The rock is referenced in the psalms and other parts of the Old Testament. God is our rock and our salvation. It represents an unchanging Gospel. The same yesterday, today and forever!
I am LDS. I am a convert. At this point I am in my sixties. I have been a member for twenty five years. I came to the Church after many years in Protestant Christianity. I used to think that there was little difference between the denominations. Recently I discovered "Ready to Harvest" on UA-cam. Through that exceptional channel I have come to understand how the different denominations are not really the same. Each one will cite chapter and verse why they believe what they do and the vast majority of them are so different from each other that they cannot really said to be the same religion. I gain more understanding because of resources such as RTH why there is a dire need for a living Prophet and the Restoration. If I may suggest an exploration of RTH on your own so you can see the tremendous confusion there is in Christendom, you may well begin to really understand the LDS Church and its mission.
I’m a Protestant Christian and I can tell you with out question, the differences in the denominations are secondary, not primary. There is more of a split between the inerrancy of the Bible, gay marriage, etc. but there is NO discrepancy on the trinity, the nature of the godhead, salvation, the primary issues. If you really take the time to study, you’ll see those issues are secondary.
I love this and all of your content! It's so helpful to see another perspective without the hate that is found in other people when talking about something I value so much! I can feel the love that you have for the gospel and our Saviour Jesus Christ. Thank you for taking the time and the care that you do with these topics!
Thanks for the reaction to this. One thing I want to point out is that Latter-Day Saints are generally grateful for the teachers of the early Catholic church as well as reformers like Martin Luther. While we believe that priesthood authority was revoked during that time, that does not mean there wasn't an enormous amount of good still happening in the world. There are some who even say that it was part of God's plan for Catholicism and Protestantism to keep the Christian flame alive until the church could be restored. That statement is not intended to devalue the work that you or other righteous pastors or even catholic priests or jewish rabbis or muslim clerics do in their congregations around the world - you are all amazing, and doing what you can with the light and knowledge that is given to you. We are all just trying our best, and hoping that the fruit of our labors will shine forth to magnify the glory of deity for others.
And honestly, having any light is better than having no light. When we say other churches don't have the fullness, we don't mean it to sound derogatory or like an insult. Other churches have bits and pieces of what Christ originally taught, but none have all of them.
It would be really interesting to see you attend a High School Seminary Class or even an Institute class! As a high schooler, it would be awesome to see your reaction to what the younger generation is learning on a daily basis
Ya'all get wrapped real good on the axle about your interpretations of a group of writings that have been translated enough to raise plenty of issues... Here's my testimony... the fact is God loves us, all of us. He sent his son to atone and die for us .. That's it, and it's all that matters, as a Christian I'll stand next to any of you arm in arm in the gap regardless of your denomination or the way you interpret doctrine. Our heavenly father will sort the rest and make it square in his time. God bless and keep you and yours in these turbulent days.
This is such a fantastic idea! I think it would be so great if you could possibly come to one of our CES schools, especially on a devotional day. I'm a current student at BYU-IDAHO in rexburg and it is really an amazing thing to experience the Spirit on campus and witness the faculty members share their own thoughts and testimonies with the students.
Hi Pastor Jeff, l am member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, l am a South African. I have been watching your videos since recently and l look forward to the next video all the time, l have actually learned so much even about the mainstream Christianity from your videos but most importantly you are helping me re-learn and learn new things l never took though to really find out about my church. You are a great teacher and learner, your humility will take Christianity as a whole far, l believe you are inspired of God to do what you are doing, closing the gap that shouldn't even be there between us who accepted the Savior of we profess to be His followers, Thank you God bless you. I love you my dear brother 🌸
@ Zikhona Mpekula - praise God for you too. I’m mainstream Christian but I’m learning so much about the LDS faith through this channel. So that shows that the pastor is doing a good job if both sides are learning about each others’ beliefs. God bless you as well.
👋🏽 please come to SLC and visit the great and spacious city creek mall… ❤❤❤ I’ll bet you are there less than ten minutes before you are so uncomfortable that you decide your LDS church doesn’t like people of color… trust a Navajo, formerly a lamanite
@@zikhonampekula6405 exactly! “Gentiles” that claim to have an Israeli blood transfusion upon baptism… and they used to teach that Native Americans had that Israeli blood although their skin was also “cursed with blackness”… until DNA evidence said otherwise, and destroyed the whole point of the Book of Mormon. Very sad actually…
As a non LDS believer-this is so interesting to me! I did not know the LDS church taught this and so much of the teachings there now make more sense. You did a very good job describing the view of a protestant as it relates to what I think as I read the Bible about Christ's church. Thank you for these videos!
I was really impressed with the way you did this video. You watched and commented on what was being said showing that you understand. Then you explained the difference on belief. That was really helpful to me since I am unfamiliar with Protestant beliefs.
What an awesome video! I love love love that you are able to watch David and then relate to the truths that lign up with your beliefs while calmly and politely seperating the differences. You're getting a lot better at not being reactionary or biased but rather studious to the LDS church. I respect that so much. I have done a similar approach whenever I meet Christians. Before I even tell them I'm LDS I ask them more about their beliefs. I pray for the day where Christians can interact with LDS without vehemently launching into the "your Jesus is a false Jesus" narrative. Keep up the great job Jeff. You're truly doing God's work brother.
Thank you for the respect you show to the LDS church and for being a reasonable truth seeking Christian who is willing to learn, understand and to get along with everyone. God sets out clearly in the bible those he has to lead his church. 1 Corinthians 12:28 backed up by Ephesians 2:19-20, 4:5, 4:11-14. Once the apostles are killed, no more church, just records until the world was almost ready to have again a prophet and apostles without killing them. The great apostasy is the time between the original apostles dying and the church being restored back to the earth by a prophet. The great apostasy was prophesied in the Bible: (Isaiah 24:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Amos 8:11-12). Now we are in the last dispensation or the dispensation of the fullness of times (Ephesians 1:10). A restitution of all things was also prophesied (Acts 3:21) During the great apostasy, each new church that was formed only had the bible to best interpret what they could, however no living apostles and prophets. Now, with all the different Christian churches dotting the planet, only 2 have the name of Jesus Christ on them (the church of Christ and the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Only 2 churches have a significant missionary program that follows Matthew 28:29-20 with 1 having a much bigger program (Jehovah's witnesses and the LDS church with the bigger missionary program) and only 1 church claims to have apostles and prophets receiving revelation from God to actively guide it. The clues are all in the bible and the pieces of the puzzle are all there. As a convert, I could not conceive that God could direct through anything other than the bible and had no idea of a living church directed by God until after I gained a testimony.
Question: If the Bible says the Children of the Devil are EVIDENT and your religion falls into that category (what he describes as the Children of the Devil) is that the time to IGNORE Scripture? See 1 John 3:10-18. I KNOW this is heavy. But you need to surrender! It is time for you to fall on your knees and pray because your Church is false. Mormons continue to KILL each other for pagan apostate leaders! Why? It doesn't make LOGICAL sense and the SCRIPTURES are very clear.
I do commend you for being methodical. You should be. But you should look more closely at what the scriptures say about true Christianity--what it would be like. Look at what God hates, and you will start to see even more evidence that your Church too is false. 1 John 3:10-18 is a major blow, but there are others too.
@@andrewross6682 Well it does more than just saying it. And if a person says the love you and buys you gifts but later is willing to kill you doesn't that negate the previous expressions? If my wife were to try to kill me even after some pretty good stuff, I would probably feel that is an irreconcilable offense. Maybe I'd cherish some of those moments but the attempt to kill would be a done deal for most people. We are brothers and sisters. But in times of war we commit fratricide? Is that love? True Christians would love their brother and sister enough, that they are like YOU ARE TOO VALUABLE for that. WE can find a better solution. If a worldly leader says: "Kill that guy." You will say: "That guy is my brother! We have the same values. WE are united. I can't kill him." You can't say you love your brother if you are willing to kill him. Christians are not bound by borders. We belong to Christ first! Even in a street fight between two strangers, you wouldn't encourage them to fight. You would say don't fight! Its not worth it. You are BETTER THAN THAT! Early Christians were not in the military and if Caesar put them in the arena, they would not fight each other. Today, worldly political leaders ask Christians to kill each other for what? Water, food, land, money, etc? Isn't your beloved brother more valuable than those things? Rather, true Christians would look at the problem and say what is it and what other solution can we come up with. They wouldn't commit genocide in the streets! HOw does this reflect on Churches? Because they don't uphold this Christian requirement. A Christian CANNOT kill another Christian. (We are not talking self defense.) You cannot kill you brohter and at the same time say you love him. But Churches allow worldly leaders to divide so-called Christians and use them in a cat and mouse game. A true Christian would say, I can't violate my conscience. That man did me no wrong. As beloved family we can find a solution. We are ONE in Christ Jesus! But religions don't do this. People of all the major religions fought one anohter in world war 1 and 2. (Jesus said by their fruits you will recognize imposters.) In Rwanda, people worshiped Hutu and Tutsi in the same buildings for centuries. It was a so-called Christian nation. But were they true Christians? They did what the political leader said: SLAUGHTER THEM ALL! Was that the Christian thing to do because some wicked guy says slaugther your Christian brother? (If a political leader tells you to slaugther your mom and father, slaughter your brother and sister, would you do it? This is why is says NOT IN WORD but in DEED and TRUTH! If you kill your Christian brother is it not love in DEED and it is not in TRUTH love!) If it happens in a local congregation, that tells you something is wrong with that congregation. YOu would say that: "I go there adn they fight all the time. I dont know what is going on in that Church." But if it is not just that local church but it is systemic, should you not say what is that Church teaching their people? Jesus said a house divided cannot stand. But so-called Christians are divided by nationality and race. Is that Christian? Or is it WORLDLY? Why are the Russian Orthodox attacking their Ukrainian brothers? Is that love? But if the Russian Orthodox and the Ukrianians are blessing each other troops telling them God is with them, praying on both sides, are they guilty of encouraging this? If you had children fighting and their uncles are telling them punch his lights out! You're tough enough! Girl go get that frying pan! Would you not be mad at the uncles and see them as PART of the problem? Shouldn't the uncles be telling them to find a peaceful solution? Why, would you not expect the uncles to STOP The FIGHTING? Would you not put them out of your house and view them as GOOD FOR NOTHING! "I let you TEACH and SUPERVISE my kids and you let them use skillets on each other?" If anyone should be shouting "DONT FIGHT! DON'T FIGHT!" It should be Church leaders. Patriarch Kirill of Moscow called the Russian/Ukrainian war fratricide! But as a Christian leader, he could order everyone to go home and refuse to fight their brothers. If they continue to fight that person obviously is not Christian. But Kirill cares more about his relationship with Putin that the lives of the Ukrainians. These religions don't want to lose the status they get in their homelands. People might view them as traitors. You might say that the Church doesn't have that much power. I disagree. IF THESE PEOPLE IN THEIR CHURCHES ARE REAL CHRISTIANS they would listen and not fight. If NOT, then WHY haven't the Churches been able to produce REAL CHRISTIANS? Why can't they produce real Christians? By their fruits you will recognize them. (That local congregation is racist. Something is wrong. Why doesn't the church leaders do something about it?) Its the same problem with homosexuality and fornication. A LACK OF STANDARDS and committment to Biblical teaching. They want their ears tickled. God is FOR our nation. He will protect you. The other priests are praying and saying the same thing on the other side. GOD IS WITH YOU! This is why they are called wolves in sheep clothing. 2 Timothy 3:5 says: "[They] hold to a form of outward godliness (religion), although they have denied its power for their conduct nullifies their claim of faith. Avoid such people and keep far away from them." Religions leaders have a form of godly devotion. But they will not put it into full force. They want people's favor more than anything. They tickle people's ears.
What would those in power do if the religious leaders tell their soldiers to go home? These religious leaders hold their position by gaining favor of those in power. IF the religious leaders wants their protection they will be silent and play their role. Otherwise they may be REMOVED and a more favorable religious person found.
I love watching your videos and I'm so grateful you are exploring the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without malice. Your videos always cause me to want to comment because there's always more to the discussion, but I have held back until now. I just wanted to add my testimony that there truly is a difference in this Church, especially with the Priesthood. The way that I have experienced the Holy Ghost and miracles in my life are vastly different- more potent, more tangible- than before. I grew up Christian in the Assemblies of God and experienced many various denominations before ultimately converting. I love my Christian and Catholic friends and neighbors. There is so much good in those churches and I believe they are going to Heaven, but there is something very different about the LDS church and it's restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
I think you did a great job with this reaction video. I enjoyed watching it and am learning a lot. Thank you again for your open dialogue and noncritical approach, with all the contention in the world I enjoy watching your content because it is respectful despite disagreement and I believe that is how we should be living our lives as true Christians.
Thank you so much for putting these videos together! I am LDS and served 2 years in Germany on my mission. I have many wonderful non-LDS friends who truly shine with the love of the Savior in their lives and our love of the Savior is a binding tie that makes for strong friendships that I cherish.
Hello Pastor Jeff! So good to hear from you again. You are helping me understand the teachings of the evangelical churches as you learn about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints! There are wonderful things to learn from both teachings and it makes me so grateful for your videos!
I very much enjoy your videos and have come to understand why Christian churches are distinct from the Church of Jesus Christ LDS. I think your videos will go a long way too remove the animosity that exists between our faiths. Thanks for what you're doing
Hey Jeff, this was a great video! Something I wanted to add, that was not mentioned here, is that there are two scriptures that for Latter Day Saints, are very clear In regards to this apostasy and eventual need for restoration. These scriptures are plain enough in English, but the Spanish versions of both are unmistakably clear in their language. I would be Interested to know your thoughts on them. Acts 3:20-21 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. In Spanish this would read “Until the time of restoration of all things” And then we have 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; In Spanish, this is again even more clear. It reads “For that time shall not come, until there first comes an apostasy” My translation may not be perfect, but it does capture the essence of how plain these events were made to early Christian saints. Hope you find that Information Interesting!
Who was the man of sin? Has he already been revealed, the son of perdition? There will have to be a falling away, not a complete extinction of the church, before the second coming of Jesus. The first verse you shared was also referencing the second coming of Jesus, and the prophecies from the scriptures about that. All who will not hear that Prophet, will be cut off among the people. Has that happened yet? But you say the times of restitution of all things have happened already through Joseph Smith?
The church didn’t go extinct per say, but only parts of it lived on in the form of the Catholic Church. You are correct that verse 20 is in reference to His second coming, but then in verse 21 we see that the heavens did receive Christ until the time of restitution (restoration) of all things. This being in reference to Joseph Smiths first vision. These scriptures point out plainly that an apostasy was to come after Christ left. An apostasy great enough that it would require a restoration. We today need only ask ourselves whether or not we are still living in that apostasy, or if Christ did come and restore his church as he promised. There are additional scriptures In Isaiah and the Old Testament that also reference the restoration, but they are more cryptic than these, so if it’s hard to understand these, than it will be even harder to understand the others.
@@DeliverQuality ἀποκατάστασις, -εως, ἡ, (ἀποκαθίστημι, which see), restoration: τῶν πάντων, the restoration not only of the true theocracy but also of that more perfect state of (even physical) things which existed before the fall, Acts 3:21; cf. Meyer at the passage. (Often in Polybius, Diodorus, Plutarch, others.) [ἀποκατιστάνω, see ἀποκαθίστημι.] I wrote a long comment but it didn’t get posted. Have you looked at the Greek word for restitution/restoration? There is only one place in the Bible that it’s used and it’s in that verse.
@@DeliverQuality have you used the blue letter Bible app before? The Greek word for restitution/restoration is Strong’s G605. It means restoration of a true theocracy, restoration of the perfect state before the fall.
I'm an ex-mormon with no ill will towards the church, and I love your very understanding and open approach while still explaining and backing up what you believe and why. Would love for additional explanations of your basis of belief based on the Greek versions of specific verses and how they influence your understanding of the English translations, versus how they are explained in Mormonism. I understand that would take significant time and research, but it would be a worthy endeavor once you have more of a foundational understanding of core LDS doctrines.
Read Jesus the Christ including notes at the of each Chapter might answer the questions you have. Also Talmage works titled Articles of Faith and The Great Apostasy. Great works with substantial research and references.
(1/2) I appreciate the effort you dedicate on helping people see both perspectives. And by the way, you do a good job staying non bias. Now, as I read on the comment section, I still find myself impressed with how difficult it is for a lot of us (people that profess being followers of Christ) to still find a place where our conversations begin with charity, love, and comprehension...
I think you do a great job explaining things. I would like to point out that we don’t believe that Christ only manifests himself through the fruits of the restored church, but also through all people who seek to do good. We believe that all denominations have aspects of truth, but do not have the whole truth, truth that only prophets would be able to bring back after a falling away
Hello Pastor Jeff, again I love the videos and have learned much about mainstream Christianity. One common misconception I think other Christians outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS and also in the LDS church, is that we believe in grace wholeheartedly. Just as any Christian. We do not believe works will save us as only Christ can save. Regardless of what I do or dont do on earth. I dont have power to save myself or others. That is only by Christ and his atonement. We do believe in try. As I think anyone doing good is already doing. Being a good person and helping others as Christ taught. He gave two great commandments which entale much. We can’t love god or our neighbors w out works. We must serve and help and teach and lead and work a great deal to help build gods great kingdom. It is all only made possible by a loving Heavenly Father who gave his only begotten son. However we can put in the work w effort just as God helped bless Moses when he gave him the Ten Commandments. God could have just given Moses the Ten Commandments but instead blessed Moses by teaching him to exert faith and works by commanding Moses to climb mt Sinai. I believe god did not just give Moses the 10 commandments In order to test him and have Moses apply work in a way Moses could grow. When we as ppl apply work. We have opportunities to grow. Spiritual, physical, intellectual. I believe God wants us to grow as one of the most important aspects of life given by Him. All the best my dear brother! Love to see you unify LDS’ w other Christians!!!!
@@youarecreatedforapurpose Thank you for your concern for my well-being. I truly appreciate it. Despite my imperfections and constant need to repent and adjust, I feel like I am on the right path to forever with God.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose I follow the religion of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I am a member of the tribe of Ephraim, one of the sons of Joseph, who was the son of Jacob. I understand that Islam is also an Abrahamic religion, through his son Ishmael.
The 'Great Apostasy' makes it sound like it's the only apostasy, but we believe that there have actually been several. Like at the time of Noah. Also, we believe that almost every church has some degree of truth. Do you believe the same? Do you believe God has inspired all religions?
We are all followers of Christ, no matter what denominations we belong. We have our own testimonies of the saviour and witnesses of his miracle. I think what matters most is that, when HE comes again, JESUS will make everything clear for us... I think that would be amazing to look forward to.
What you are saying here needs to be emphasized more. Too many people treat denominational religion like sports teams- that there is only 1 winner and all those who belong to that team go to Heaven. The truth is that it will be far more tolerable in the day of judgement for a willing soul who chose a false religion than a hypocrite of the true faith.
We’re all here watching this channel to learn and progress. people will worship by their own discernment. We’re all coming from different places and experiences.
@@jonathancarlson7659 like sports team you say? I think the Lord would not want his children to contend with one another because of religion. What I mean here is that WE ARE ALL FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST as long as we believe in him. As far as I understood it... those who believe in him will be saved. Who are we to judge who are those hypocrite and who are not. Anyway... we will face his judgment seat when he comes again. We are in any way in command of our own choices and agency. I'm sorry if I confused you.
Why do Latter-day Saints deny Christ and say he is a created being the brother of Satan? Jesus Christ made it very clear that he was God in the flesh. That is why Christ was crucified. It was called blasphemy and punishable by death . John 10:30; John 5:18 Even Heavenly Father said that Jesus Christ is God. Hebrews 1:8
Thank you for having the divine wisdom to deep dive into this topic, I think it's an important one, for all Christianity. As a "struggling" lifelong member of the LDS faith, the Melchizedek priesthood is the one thing I cannot deny the truth of...having felt its presence and felt its power in use by people with the authority to use it. I have literally felt the loving arms of our Heavenly Father's Holy spirit wrap around me during a priesthood blessing and sooth my broken heart. I have received a priesthood blessing of healing when I was in the hospital close to dying and the next day being able to go home. The authority to act in Christ's name by his grace, is one of the most sacred gifts he left with us mortals. It's literally a conduit to the power of God's love for us. This power can make miracles and we are vessels who can use that power if we are worthy and have the authority....this is why I stay for better or worse... whether or not I agree with the rest of it.
Satan is a master deceiver. Only Jesus Christ has any right to the Melchizedek priesthood. Only Jesus Christ is eternal and had no father or mother and is a priest forever. (Christ did take on human flesh 2,000 years ago.) Latter day Saints have mothers and fathers and they cannot be a priest forever since they will die. Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. The sitting High Priest persecuted the Christians, which is evidence that the Judaic priestly offices was not carried over into Christianity. Persecution of: The Apostles: Acts 5:17-18 They were thrown in jail. Paul: Acts 23-24 The high priest went all the way to Rome to bring charges against Paul and had someone slap Paul across the face. Jesus Christ: Matthew 26:57-68 The high priest had Christ crucified because Christ claimed to be God. It was called blasphemy. Jesus Christ was not ordained into the Aaronic priesthood since He was of the tribe of Judah. Heb. 7:14 Neither were the disciples or even the people in the BOM, since they were not from the tribe of Levi. Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest and King forever!
@@youarecreatedforapurpose I know for sure that when I die I will be with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Please read your Bible. Jesus Christ said, Follow me. John 10 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose The whole purpose of your existence is to know God and enjoy him forever. John 17:3 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Phil. 3:9 And be found in Christ, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; I John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. ****** Joseph Smith and every LDS prophet since him have preached a gospel of “do,” negating the gospel of “done” that Jesus preached and was. The LDS church is all about what it and its members must still do and be if they want to live with God (and be a god) one day. The true church is all about proclaiming what Christ has DONE to make us right with God now for all eternity. It’s a certainty. Jesus Christ canceled the record of debt that was held against us. All you need to do is accept Christ by faith. It isn't because of who you are and what you must and can do for God. It is because of who He is and what He did for you in sending Jesus to be the sacrificial offering for your sins. To be your substitute on the cross and to satisfy the demands of God's law that stands against you. Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile you to God. Christ has done the one act of righteousness that could bring justification and life to all men. All Christ is asking with open arms is for you to lay down your religiosity and works at the foot of the cross and allow Christ to take it. Salvation is quite simple. Luke 18 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” God bless you.
@@jlewis8145 Our prophets teach as Christ taught. Christ did not say, just believe in me and do nothing. Christ taught to do works. Or do you deny the words of Christ?
@@joeshriver778 Works are the evidence of our salvation. James 2 In order to be justified before God, Christ requires perfection to get into heaven. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect. Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest and King! Abraham and King David were justified by faith. Romans 4 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. I have peace with God by faith. Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Titus 3 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
It is crucial to note that, although we believe that no one on earth held these priesthood KEYS during the time of apostasy, the power and authority of God was still available. Before and after the Reformation, God blessed men and women, Protestants, Catholics, and non-christians by his priesthood power and authority as they prayed and lived according to the light and knowledge they received. Even before the priesthood was restored, Joseph Smith received the visitation of the Father and the Son and accessed God's priesthood power. He translated the entire Book of Mormon before the priesthood was even restored. I would say that as a member of Christ's Restored church, I do believe in a universal priesthood, aka, God's power on the Earth. But I also believe in priesthood keys, being delegated to man for Ecclesiastical reasons.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explore our belief with such an open mind. It’s so relieving watching your content knowing our religion isn’t going to be met with nasty words and hurtful remarks. Thank you 🙏🏼
I appreciate you explaining the Protestant & general Christianity perspective. And thank you for coming to this topic of the apostasy with an open mind!
Just found this channel recently. Thanks for searching with the spirit of understanding rather than contention. I have liked looking through a bit of the catalog of videos.
I'm an LDS convert and I do believe that God works and inspires men and women outside of our Faith , because He works among the children of men according to their Faith . I think that God no longer working through prophets/apostles is essentially what defines the great apostasy. In Matthew 21:33-46 we can read a parable from Jesus talking about how God sent his servants and they all got murdered then God even sent his own son and he was no exception to the rule . We believe the consequences of that wickedness from the people was the withdrawing of God's Kingdom and Authority among the Jews , a Kingdom to be restored and given to the gentiles through Joseph smith many years later. God is the same yesterday today and forever , the way he has done his work isn't changing either , he has worked , he continues to work and will forever be working through prophets to guide his people . Growing up as a catholic I've had many spiritual experiences with God , I didn't need to join the Church of Jesus Christ to start believing in Jesus as my savior and redeemer , but I do have to say that my understanding of Christ and his teaching have been increased a 100 fold ever since I joined the church . Ironically my understanding of the Bible has been increased a 100 fold as well . but here is the coolest part , had I not been raised a catholic I don't think I'd have joined the Church of Jesus Christ , I feel like every thing I've learned prior to joining the Church of JC was essential for my spiritual journey , it definitely made me a better man . sincere desires to follow Christ can never be counted as a waist no matter the doctrinal divergences we may have , in sincerely pursuing Christ ,we always end up finding him , and that's what matters most in the end .
So you think that the LDS church apostles will never go into apostasy? They are mere men just as the original twelve that Jesus Himself hand-picked. The seed has been planted. I am thankful that you have a Catholic foundation. Peace!
@@windywithachanceofsunshine5219 Not sure what you mean by a Catholic foundation? The original Church of Christ and the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never had a Pope or Cardinals, but rather the same organization with apostles and prophets. And yes, they are mere mortal men who are not perfect, but chosen to serve by revelation. The Bible talks about the final restoration in the latter days, so no, I don't believe there will be another apostasy. The reason for the great apostasy was not that the apostles went astray; in fact they were valiant until the end of their lives. They were hunted and eventually all killed the first century A.D. Without them and the end of revelation in the Church, that's when the apostasy began, and corruption led to changing of doctrine and loss of priesthood authority. We still believe much good is accomplished by many churches who still have many common truths, but we invite people to discover the truths that were lost and what has been revealed and will yet be revealed in the restored Church of Jesus Christ.
@@Kimmer Jesus instituted his church and established the priesthood before he left earth. Peter was the bishop of Rome - actually the pope. He had the power to lay hands and anoint successive bishops and priests. By this tradition, the church stood firm regardless of any apostasy that went around. Even when all the original apostles died, the next bishop of Rome and the priests continued to uphold the church. Remember that there was apostasy even during the time Jesus taught. So the great "Apostasy" was nothing new. And if you study the bible, you should know that the final restoration of latter days is...No one knows for sure because Jesus himself told us that we will not know the time or place.LDS are trying to put a time and place on something that Jesus warned us NOT to do. Joseph Smith tried to play God. He failed miserably. Catholic foundation is the catholic, meaning universal church that Jesus himself established, still going strong after 2000 years today! If you have that in your heart, you are all the better. Most importantly, No one can improve the original gospel of Jesus. Those, like Joseph Smith, who try to "restore" Jesus' gospel are frauds because only God can restore his church. No one can destroy God's foundation. It is rock solid! Peace be with you!
This is what we need as Christian’s, come together as the body of Christ. Thank you pastor Jeff. I’m A convert and I believe none of us will be disappointed as we love Christ. You building bridges for the whole body is exactly what the lord wants. I can see the world coming down on Christian’s and need this. Thank you.
Pastor Jeff, I just want to say how nice it is to hear that we both believe in the same Lord, the same God and are both brothers in Christ. Thank you for your ministry!
I have waited for this video for a long time. I enjoy your videos thoroughly Pastor Jeff, I love your perspective when it comes to the LDS church. You aren't confrontational but prefer to engage in dialogue. I love how you travel to sacred LDS sites and talk about our experience. I am Roman Catholic and completely reject the Great Apostasy for the same reasons stated that there is an unbroken line of priesthood succession. Catholic and LDS comparisons are intriguing since both churches claim to be The One True Church, and both claim Apostolic succession. There is so much going on there I think a comparison of the two would make an excellent topic. The LDS church is a whole rabbit hole, though I have studied it, I ultimately reject it but find it interesting like you Pastor Jeff. Your Catholic Friend.
Hello Jeff! Que up at the 9:50 mark and you say that there are no acts we can do to "insure" our salvation. Surely, we agree that works do not or cannot earn or in any way pay for our salvation. Christ Jesus is the only One who could do that, and we must go through Him. But oh, so many scriptures (the words of Jesus Himself) indicate many things we must do to qualify for what Jesus did for us. Let's start with forgiving others for their transgressions against us, for God will not forgive us if we do not forgive others. Forgiving is an act we must do (and a major challenge for many). What about Hebrews 5 that specifies that Jesus is the Author of salvation to those who OBEY Him? Many, many others. If I were to identify the core difference of how and why we understand differently, to lay the axe at the root of the problem instead of hacking away at the leaves so to speak, I would point to the necessity of the works that Jesus gave us to do as the means to open our understanding. Job declared that to depart from evil is understanding. David emphasizes that he understood more than the ancients because he KEPT the precepts of God. Jesus Himself pointed out that we know doctrine by doing the will of His Father. The common denominator of these examples is what brings us closer to the Spirit of God, because (per 1 Corinthians) the things of God are only understood by the Spirit of God and the things of man are understood by the spirit of man. Satan's purpose is to deceive, to hide truth. What better strategy is there to do so than to convince well-meaning believers that we cannot depart from evil, or it is not necessary to do so for salvation, when the Bible teaches us that to depart from evil is understanding. We do not fully understand what salvation is (and so many other gospel topics) until we do the works that Jesus gave us. By this barrier, we are subject to understand by the spirit of man, and are as the princes of the world who are hidden from God's wisdom. I hope you will always remember this whenever you or other evangelicals teach that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a works-based belief in salvation. Works DO NOT save us. They do open our understanding of what salvation really is. Darell
The respect I was taught as an LDS child, teen, and young adult of Martin Luther was what propelled me to understand that there really was no “Great Apostasy”, but instead a redirection. I could say so much more on practices that I can no longer abide by, but I will be respectful. Let’s just say, I have been happily ELCA Lutheran since 2009. Jesus’ gospel never left the earth.
12:45-15:14 That is true. As was pointed out earlier in the video, just because the Authority was taken away didn't mean that God left the Earth to itself nor that the world fell into utter darkness. I have a handful of people who some to mind who I [Know] are wonderful, faithful, and loving friends and children of God; I know that through Christianity across the whole world, light and life is being brought to the troubled, the downtrodden, and the weary & fainting. With this, I also know that proper Authority of the Priesthood is essential for the saving ordinances, and I Know that His Authority and Church have been restored directly and in fulness to the Earth once more. It is my humble prayer that I will live to see all people have the chance to receive Christ's Gospel & feel His light, and that I may take part in that work to share. Thank you. A video that I recommend watching (somewhat of an older one, not that old really) is this, "The Great Apostasy (made 1999)" Here's the link. ua-cam.com/video/GRv88FqzAjk/v-deo.html Thanks lots for another interesting and insightful video. I am excited for what's ahead in these coming months. Again, thanks lots.
I question the protestant position on a universal priesthood for these reasons: 1) Most protestant churches are pastor dependent. I baptized my nephew in our church because I'm an ordained elder and could do that, while my sister's bishop presided over the service. My two brothers were the witnesses because one was a priest, the other one also an elder. This inspired my Evangelical nieces to get baptized in their church with their other cousins, so five were baptized at the same time, along with two hundred other people. Only four pastors performed all those baptisms. If the Protestants have this universal priesthood, why were there only four ordained pastors performing all the baptisms? "9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" (2 Peter 2:9) This scripture is interesting because how it is explained from a protestant perspective is how it actually plays out in the LDS church. Once a man is baptized with few exceptions, they are ordained to the priesthood within a short time. As an elders Quorum president I know we were to invite all men who were baptized and even thinking of baptism to come join us in our priesthood meetings as "perspective elders", so even the new members are treated as part of the priesthood in that way. They still have to have hands laud on them by those in authority as Paul instructed Timothy, and Paul was himself before preaching as an apostle. 2) Modt often the universal priesthood as explained by protestants is used to justify a man breaking from one church to start another. All churches in Acts and the New Testamentera were divided based on geographical locations.. I could go more into this, but that will be enough for now.
I think you hit the nail right on the head for why so many of us have such strong convictions of why our LDS church is true. We see the fruits!!! Our history is filled with profound miracles and witnesses of the gospel and Gods love for the saints. So when tricky topics come up (such as polygamy) we hold to the many many miracles that witness to us that God is with us and continues to guide us. My own dad experienced a complete change of heart after reading the book of mormon that drew him so very close to Christ. He was on a very rough path and it changed him completely. He was truly enlightened and went about doing so much good for others. He became the biggest believer and testifier of the BOM as a witness of Christ. Hundreds came to his funeral in my youth and shared that with me. I've had my own non-LDS friends ask me how I can base my belief in the BOM just off a "good feeling" - as the invitation may appear to be. But it is so much more than that. Truly, the fruits of this gospel are evident in the lives of the people and our history. I found it very interesting when you said the same of your church. It delighted my heart to know that God is performing miracles and evidence of His spirit with all His children in all churches. I see the amazing fruits of my many friends of other faiths as well. They are good fruits indeed. I see our church doing so much good in this world - serving and loving others. It makes me wonder - perhaps we are all planted directly in the part of His vineyard where he needs us most, in the faith where we can do the most good. Perhaps we are all tasked with sharing God's grace and atonement in the avenue we have been given. Perhaps we could all work to understand and collaborate more together to share His gospel and glorious message. If anything - you have opened my eyes and heart to this. As the world continues to grow darker, I believe it will be the collective effort of all believers of Christ who will help prepare the world for His coming. Thank you for your work in unifying us! I truly believe it will yield so much good fruit!
Jeff -- Again, thank you for the thoughtful, kind, manner in which you discuss these things. I found your discussion of the great apostasy, or lack thereof, interesting on a number of levels. First, I don't think a single member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be surprised to learn that Protestant's do not believe that there was a great apostasy. They believe that the 'church', as represented by the Catholic Church, had gone astray, but not so seriously as to require a restoration -- just a reformation. Nor, would any of us be shocked to learn the Catholic Church does not believe in a great apostasy. They don't even acknowledge the need for a reformation. Of course, a belief that a great apostasy did not take place does not mean that it did not. I also found your discussion of how many of the epistles found in the New Testament document the apostles' attempts to correct the false doctrines and practices that had crept into the various branches of the larger Church. You cited one example. What I found odd was your assumption that, once the apostles were gone (and no more letters were written), there was no longer a need within the Church for their corrective care of the flock. Did the Great Adversary's work against the Church cease with the death of the apostles? I cannot see evidence that the Father of Lies ceased spreading false doctrine once the last original apostle died. So, if the Church was subject to such great corruption while under the watchful care of the apostles, why are we to believe it would not be further corrupted after they departed? How corrupt had branches of the Church become? You pointed out one example with your citation of Galatians. Allow me to point to one more: Paul had preached the Gospel to the Corinthians. While he was still alive, they had ceased to believe in the resurrection. This was not a small doctrinal dispute. It's fairly foundational to Christianity -- whether Christ, and we through Him, will be resurrected. In chapter 15 of Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians, he recounts that he had taught them that Christ had been resurrected and had been seen by many, including Paul. He then cites the Church's practice of baptism for the dead as an additional evidence of our future resurrection, asking: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? [verse 29]" I mention this second example of the serious doctrinal errors that had crept into the ancient Church for two reasons. First, it reinforces my question, above. If such errors had crept into the Church under the apostles watchful care, why should we believe seriously grave errors did not infect the Church after the apostles were gone? Second, Paul's brief mention of the practice of baptism for the dead is textual evidence that some of the doctrines and practices of the ancient Church were NOT transmitted down to mainline Christianity. Do the Protestant and Catholic churches practice baptism for the dead? The fact that they do not seems to argue that there was an apostasy.
@@davidjanbaz7728 David -- Thank you for responding. Of course, you're correct. Our belief in a great apostasy does not mean one happened. However, as our host, Jeff, mentioned in the video, the New Testament is replete with warnings about and prophecies of an apostasy that would take place before Christ returned again. To take just one example, see 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2, verses 2 - 3. Here, Paul tells them that the Second Coming was not nigh. He warns, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ...." We believe that 'falling away' was the apostasy we've been discussing. There are alternative readings of this scripture. My only point is that our belief in an apostasy is not without scriptural support. As for your suggestion that in 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul was referring to some non-Christian practice of baptism for the dead, that reading isn't tenable. Read verse 29 in context of the rest of the chapter. Paul teaches, first, that Christ was resurrected. He then goes on to teach that we, too, shall be resurrected. It is in that context, that we ordinary humans shall be resurected, that Paul mentions baptism for the dead. He doesn't do it to condemn the practice. Nor, is he instructing them on the importance of the practice. He was simply pointing to a practice that was, evidently, common in the early church as support for his teaching that we would be resurrected. (Else, why are we baptized for the dead, if the dead will not be resurrected?) Given this context, how would referring to a non-Christian practice support Paul's teaching about the resurrection of humankind? Having said that, I have had Christian ministers offer an alternative reading of this passage. Some have admitted that baptism for the dead appears to have been a practice in the early church but that the practice was dropped for one reason or another. (Just as some admit that the early church practiced baptism by immersion and didn't baptize infants, but those practices were later changed.) Others have suggested that this part of Paul's letter may have been garbled over the years. While still others address the question head-on, and, through Olympic-level interpretive gymnastics read the verse to have a meaning quite apart from the natural meaning of the text. So far, you're the first I've seen suggest that Paul was referring with favor to a non-Christian practice of baptism for the dead.
@@BGCflyer The Book of Mormon is not a 'how to run a church' manual. Like the Bible, it is a history of God's dealings with a particular people. For the most part, if the Book of Mormon mentions an ordinance, such as baptism, it does so in the narrative of the story. For example, it might say something like (paraphrasing), "Many believed in his word and were baptized." It doesn't provide the reader an instruction on how to perform the ordinances mentioned. I used 'for the most part' above for a reason. At the very end of the Book of Mormon, Moroni does say how some ordinances were performed. He doesn't discuss all the ordinances. So, there is no reason to believe that he would or should have mentioned Baptism for the Dead.
I've often thought the same thing. I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of leader day Saint and we do use the king James version and I have noticed in some of your videos the scriptions don't quite match up with same words, we would read the meaning differently. Might be worth reading from the king James and your NIV If comparing some beliefs
@hello saints Jeff, continue your good work and ignore the negative comments by both LDS and non LDS followers alike. I appreciate your thoughts even when I disagree with your interpretations. Love your channel, keep it up!
Hey Jeff! I love this video, although it prompted a question that I was hoping you could clarify: You can answer this from your own personal perspective or that of protestants in general, but given your belief that the Bible is totally complete, do you believe it’s possible in general for new revelation/scripture/prophets to come in our day or in the future? Even taking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints out of the picture, do you believe that it’s possible that God could call prophets and therefore create additional scripture like he did in the Bible days? Or that there may be scripture based on events in the past that are not currently in circulation in main stream Christianity? Or is that no longer possible?
…Hi, I’d like to hear what pastor Jeff has to say too but it seems like he does’t make many comments or responses to questions. My thoughts on your question: The prophets of the Old Testament were calling people to repentance and foretold the coming of the messiah. Now that Jesus (the Messiah) has come, we don’t need prophets in the same way as we did in the Old Testament times. That doesn’t mean no man or women couldn’t receive personal revelation or prophecy something, but we don’t need them to lead the church. Jesus Christ is our prophet, priest and King! Hebrews 1:1-2 is the most clear explanation that in old days we had the prophets, but in these last days, we have the Son. We have the writings of Jesus and the apostles, and that is sufficient. The Gospel is simple. God saved us through Jesus (justification) now we live a life worthy of the the Lord as instruments in His hands, keeping the commandments, confessing our sins and repent on a daily basis, attending church services, receiving communion of bread and wine. This is sanctification. We don’t need anything more that what Jesus taught us, so there isn’t a need for new revelation about the Gospel. We can be lead by the Holy Spirit, but the values we have from the 10 commandments AND what Jesus taught are enough for us to live a Christian life. Can there be additional scriptures? I would say no. Why? Scripture is only considered scripture if we have evidence of it being written during the time of Jesus. There are thousands of manuscripts for the New Testament, but there are no manuscripts for the Book of Mormon, that’s probably why the rest of the Christian world doesn’t look at the Book of Mormon as authentic scripture.
Something interesting that I caught from the video was that the Protestant belief is that there isn't anything missing from the Bible and that it's perfect to represent the Gospel of Jesus Christ as a whole. It's really hard to appreciate the restoration of the Gospel without seeing a need for it. If something's not broke why fix it? My question for you is how certain are you of that belief? I challenge you to pray and ask God for certainty that there is nothing missing from the Bible. That there is nothing missing from his gospel. Yes that's a Protestant belief but do you know that with every part of your being that there is nothing missing from the Bible? Do you have your own personal witness that there is nothing missing from the Bible? I challenge you to pray and ask God if there is anything missing. Of course if there's nothing missing he will reaffirm to you that there is nothing missing you will have no doubt in your mind that you are in the right religion and right place where you need to be. But on the slight chance that there is something missing and you're willing to do something about it He will make it known unto you. Isn't that an interesting thought?
You are serving as such a wonderful example of how to engage with new ideas and information in a thoughtful and careful manner, even if you may not agree. I think we can all learn a thing or two from you, thank you for your content
Appreciate The Open Minded Process- I Believe Only A Very Small Window Has Been Exchanged, Especially On The Beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Perhaps A Video With Robert L. Millet (former dean of Religious Education at Brigham Young University, is a professor emeritus of ancient scripture) Would Dig Much Deeper With The Teaching of The Great Apostasy.
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the LDS perspective on the Great Apostasy: 1. Loss of Apostolic Authority: The LDS Church teaches that after the deaths of Jesus Christ and His apostles, the priesthood authority-the power to act in God’s name-was taken from the Earth. With the martyrdom of the apostles and no mechanism for appointing successors (due to the loss of the priesthood keys), the fullness of the gospel began to fade from the earth. 2. Mixture of Gospel Principles with Pagan Beliefs: As Christianity spread, especially in the Roman Empire, its doctrines were often mixed with pagan beliefs, leading to a dilution or distortion of original Christian teachings. Philosophical debates about the nature of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit led to the adoption of creeds, which, from the LDS perspective, further distanced Christianity from its original truths. 3. Changes in Ordinances and Church Organization: Over time, the original structure of the Church, as well as the ordinances (sacred rites and ceremonies) were changed or lost. For instance, the LDS Church teaches that the original mode and purpose of baptism, among other ordinances, were changed. 4. Loss of Revelation: The LDS perspective is that God guides His church through continuous revelation. With the apostasy, this direct line of communication was broken. Instead of prophets receiving revelations, decisions began to be made based on councils, debates, and human reasoning. 5. Persecution and Martyrdom: Early Christians faced intense persecution, which further exacerbated the loss of original teachings and leadership. The persecution led to many Christians going into hiding, which may have led to a further fragmentation of teachings and practices. 6. Establishment of State Religion: The Edict of Milan in 313 AD by Constantine allowed for religious tolerance, and later Christianity would become the state religion of the Roman Empire. The LDS view suggests that this melding of political and religious power further changed the nature of Christian worship and doctrine. Outcome: The result of these and other factors was a departure from the original Church that Jesus Christ had established, leading to a time without divine authority or new revelation, known as the Great Apostasy. Restoration (LDS Perspective): The LDS Church teaches that to restore the fullness of the gospel, God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820, initiating the restoration of the fullness of the gospel, including the return of priesthood authority, new revelations, and the re-establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ on the earth. In essence, from the LDS viewpoint, the apostasy was a drifting away from the truths originally taught by Jesus and the early apostles. The restoration, through Joseph Smith, was a return to those truths and the re-establishment of Christ's original church.
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the LDS perspective on the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ: 1. Need for Divine Intervention: The Great Apostasy resulted in the loss of the fullness of the gospel and priesthood authority from the Earth. The true church of Jesus Christ would need both the fullness of the gospel and priesthood authority to be re-established. A divine intervention, or Restoration, was essential to bring back the true church. 2. Joseph Smith's Seeking for Truth: In the early 19th century, many religious sects claimed to be the true church. Joseph Smith, seeking clarity, prayed to know which church was true. Joseph was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ, who informed him of the forthcoming Restoration. 3. Restoration of the Book of Mormon: Ancient prophets in the Americas wrote of Christ's teachings, creating a record parallel to the Bible. These teachings, lost to the world, were vital for the Restoration. Joseph Smith was chosen to translate this record, producing the Book of Mormon. 4. Restoration of Priesthood Authority: The original priesthood authority was lost during the Apostasy. To perform ordinances and lead the true church, this authority was essential. Heavenly messengers restored the priesthood authority to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. 5. Restoration of Doctrines and Ordinances: The Apostasy led to alterations or loss of Christ's original doctrines and ordinances. Authentic worship requires the fullness of these doctrines and ordinances. Through revelation to Joseph Smith, original doctrines and ordinances were restored. 6. Establishment of Continuous Revelation: The true church of Jesus Christ is guided by continuous revelation. Prophets, as instruments of revelation, were absent during the Apostasy. With the Restoration, the line of prophets was re-established, beginning with Joseph Smith, ensuring ongoing divine guidance. Outcome: The Restoration is seen as God's answer to the period of Apostasy, bringing back the original structure, teachings, and authority of Jesus Christ's church to the Earth. This Restoration, as believed by members of the LDS Church, came through the prophetic role and experiences of Joseph Smith.
Here is a scripture chain from the Bible that suggests the concept of an apostasy followed by a subsequent restoration: Apostasy: Acts 20:29-30: "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first..." 1 Timothy 4:1: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." 2 Timothy 4:3-4: "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." Restoration: Acts 3:19-21: "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." Amos 9:11: "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old." Ephesians 1:10: "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him." Isaiah 29:13-14: "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me...Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder..." This scripture chain begins with verses suggesting that there will be an apostasy or falling away from the truth. The latter scriptures then point to a time when God would act to restore or bring back that truth.
Here's a brief scripture chain from the Book of Mormon on apostasy and restoration: Apostasy: 1 Nephi 13:26-29: In these verses, Nephi sees a vision of the future in which plain and precious parts of the gospel are taken away or obscured, leading to the apostasy of many. "And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church...Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God." Mormon 1:13-14: Mormon laments the state of the Nephite society, highlighting their apostate condition and their disregard for what's holy. "But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people." Restoration: 1 Nephi 13:34-41: In a continuation of his vision, Nephi sees the coming forth of other scriptures (including the Book of Mormon) to restore the plain and precious truths that were lost or obscured. "And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord...And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records...shall establish the truth of the first...and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved." 2 Nephi 3:11-15: Lehi speaks of a prophecy from Joseph of old, which highlights the role of a future seer (interpreted by Latter-day Saints to mean Joseph Smith) in the restoration process. "But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins...and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them." 3 Nephi 21:1-7: Jesus Christ, while visiting the Nephites, speaks of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in the latter days as a sign that the gathering and restoration of Israel is commencing. "And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place-that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion." These are just a few of the many passages in the Book of Mormon that discuss, either directly or indirectly, the themes of apostasy and restoration. The Book of Mormon is seen by Latter-day Saints as both a prophecy of the restoration and a tool in its fulfillment. 🐦
Listening/watching to the BYU Speech called "His Grace is Sufficient" by Brad Wilcox is super helpful in understanding the view of grace within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I think latter-day saints oversimplify the protestant view of faith and "no works," while non-latter-day-saints often oversimplify the "works" side of our faith. At least on my mission, many of the people I talked to didn't understand what we meant by works (they thought of it more as good deeds) Anyway, watching His Grace is Sufficient might help show we are more similar in our understanding of grace than most people think.
This creator became very familiar with Brad Wilcox when his racist rants went viral on tiktok earlier this year… I’m sure he’ll never take Brad seriously now, if ever…
I listened to Brad Wilcox’s video about three years ago and at first it did indeed sound somewhat evangelical to me. I was interested so I listened again and read the transcript. Then, this part, especially, stood out to me: _“Oh, no,” I said, “you have plenty to do, but it is not to pay that debt. We will all be resurrected. We will all go back to God’s presence to be judged. What is left to be determined by our obedience is how comfortable we plan to be in God’s presence and what degree of glory we plan on receiving.”_ It’s easy to miss it but this is a huge departure from evangelicalism and our view of grace. According to this, the debt Christ paid was only to give us physical resurrection and bring us to judgment; whether we live in the presence of the Heavenly Father is based upon works after that. Granted, grace is supposed to be there to help us in that respect, but it still falls on us and our efforts in the end. Wilcox says the final outcome “is left to be determined by our obedience” and calls it reaching a goal. Here’s the evangelical view: Christ paid it all. There are only two eternal options: eternal death and eternal life. Eternal life is life and fellowship with God. And yet, we cannot enter into His presence unless we are “perfect, even as he is perfect.” Wilcox even said, “Scriptures make it clear that no unclean thing can dwell with God.” And even though he also said, “Because Jesus took that punishment, He can offer us the chance for ultimate perfection,” there is no way we will ever be perfect enough in this life. But Christ was. On the cross, all our sins were laid upon him. When we believe in him by accepting his free offer of eternal life through faith, the Great Exchange is complete-just as our sins were imputed to him, resulting in his death, when we believe, his perfect righteousness is imputed to us, giving us eternal life now-eternal life that will ultimately be consummated in heaven where we are finally saved from the presence of sin. That is how we view grace.
…Brad Wilcox tries to sound like a Christian, but in reality, he is not. I do appreciate his comments on not earning our salvation, but yet, I’m sure he would say you have certain ordinances that are required for heaven, for the celestial kingdom?, for eternal progression as a family in the celestial kingdom? You can’t claim that we are saved by Grace and then say we have certain saving ordinances that must be done for our salvation. That’s an oxymoron.
Who ordained you? "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you and ordained you." The rock of Peter was not not Peter but the revelation of who Christ was when he asked them "Who do men say that I am?" and flesh and blood did not reveal it to Peter.
2:12 and...The Pre Existence. 7:40. Hold on there good brother in Christ - Pastor Jeff ! Then Is it really "Sola Scriptura" or is it the non-biblical Creeds? It seems to us LDS'ers that you cannot have both! Citation:: Sola Scriptura: "..that posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice." - ref Wikipedia 11:17. Our good Christian brothers believe that the "rock" mentioned in Matthew 16: 18 was Peter but the Latter-day Saints understand this more broadly. The "rock" was in fact the rock of The Principle of Revelation (Matthew 16: 17,18) that Jesus was teaching about in that very moment. 13:18. I love what you had to say Pastor Jeff, about the work of Jesus among His believers! Revivals and Great Awakenings? (We were one of them of the many that added up to The Restoration! I have heard General Conference talks teaching that the reformations you speak of were part of what we call "The Restoration.") I love what you had to say about The fruits of Jesus' followers! Yes, signs follow them that believe! The gifts of the Spirit! including miracles, healing and tongues! The Joy of the Saints is a real! We experience it! Our history is RICH with solid veins of treasure in these regards (granted stronger at some times than others) and they continue today! (For example: April 1835 Kirtland Temple was a pentecostal outpouring! An Acts 2 experience for The Church!) * * * * Pastor Jeff, if our protestant brothers and sisters believe we of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are in error about The Great Apostasy, then what were the Apostles Peter and Paul referring to? (2 Thes 2:3, 2 Tim 4:3-4, Acts 20: 29, 1 Cor 11: 18, Galat 1:6, 1 Tim 1:6, 2 Tim 1: 15) And, if we are wrong about the New and Old Testament prophecies about The Restoration then what were the OT prophets Isaiah, Joel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Malachi and NT: JESUS, and apostles Peter, Paul, John referring to? (Acts 3:21, Isaiah 2:2, 11: 11, Jer 31: 31, Joel 2: 28, Ezekiel 37: 26, Daniel 2: 44, Malachi 3:1, 4:6, Matt 17: 11, Roman's 11: 25, Eph 1: 10, Revelation 14: 6.)
I would really, really love to see a Catholic, Protestant, and LDS get together and discuss the great apostasy. You'd get the spectrum of perspectives.
How to reply to Evangelicals who question did Jesus fail? 1) Did Jesus fail when his disciples scattered? 2) Did God failed when Israel became apostate? 3) Did God fail when a 3rd of the angels took Satan's side? 4) Did God fail when man went with Satan?
Pastor Jeff, we also see the abundant good fruit of the gospel in our church as evidence of His hand and involvement in our lives. How would you explain all the goodness that comes from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? We see healings, miracles, and so many blessings from God on a daily basis. Hundreds of thousands of testimonies all the time. Even if you don’t believe our religion, do you believe we are in good graces with God?
Honestly, I always felt like anyone who is not a Catholic really believes in a form of the great apostasy… my parents used to tell me about Martin Luther. They kinda said “all of Christianity recognized the problems with the Catholic church, which is why all the Protestant sects started… but Joseph Smith was called to restore the church through vision”
Look up Anthony Sweat Restoration of the Priesthood. He has an entire series on this topic. He’s also a BYU professor so he does an excellent job explaining this topic from an LDS perspective,
I’d love to here more about the balance of Protestant religions being different yet the same. I see the core belief in God is the same, but with so many variations of practice I’m confused. How can so many different practices all be considered correct. Even if the cores in Christ the expression can be quite distinct. God is a God of order. As evidenced by scripture (Corinthians 14:33). Ephesians 4:3-6 talks a lot about oneness. One god one faith one body one spirit one baptism. How do Protestants balance this seeming disorder of ideas. Or potential lack of oneness? Is a core belief in god the only oneness or order necessary? I apologize if this sounds accusatory. I really do have a desire to understand, the balance of different expressions. Do all Protestants believe other Protestant go to heaven even with different expressions of faith?
What unites us as Protestants is that we all agree on primary doctrine (what is required for salvation) that is summarized in the apostles creed. We would also agree on the 5 Solas of the reformation. We may have different understandings of secondary doctrine (doctrine that doesn't equate salvation). Protestants would all agree God created the the world, he made man in his image, when Adam ate of the fruit sin entered the world and thus all mankind is born and conceived in sin. We need a savior and salvation can only be found in true faith in Jesus Christ not by works so that no one can boast. Since God so loved the world he sent his son to be our savior. So we believe in the immaculate conception, the virgin birth and that in the incarnation Jesus became fully human while remaining fully God. We believe Jesus lived a perfect sinless life and was tempted in every way. When he died he paid our plenty for our sins. So that whoever believes is saved. We believe in the bodily resurrection and the accession. We believe in the Trinity that there is one God id 3 persons. The Holy Spirit was given to us at Pentecost. We believe that When we die if we trusted in God for our salvation and not on anything we do or have done then we are saved and we go to heaven and when the resurrection occurs we will have resurrected perfect bodies like Jesus' body after his resurrection. And we will spend eternity with Our savior in heaven. We are his bride and he is our bridegroom. Secondary doctrines would be things like speaking in tongues, spiritual gifts, infant vs believer baptism. What exactly our worship services look like aka traditional v contemporary, can you drink responsibly v no drinking thing like that which don't affect our salvation. It may also look to an outsider like we have all these different churches but a lot of dominations are super similar they may just come from different parts of the world like maybe one branch comes from England and another from the mainland of Europe and so forth. In our Christian schools you will find believers of all denominations because we agree on the key things.
@@mackenziekanis3096 thank you for the response I think that does help. We also believe in core doctrines and secondary doctrines. Core are things salvation centric ie Christ is our savior. Secondary doctrine could be the way we operate the church. Like how long meetings should be. In our church everything is the same everywhere. I could walk into any chapel in the world and expect the same teachings, practices, and behaviors across the board. This is what makes Protestantism so strange to me. The core is the same, but the idea that one given church could operate so distinctly from another seems odd. Some things I can see as not as big a deal, but for example baptism is an extremely important part of our faith and we believe it should be conducted in a specific way. The idea that one church baptizes one way and another a different way seems like a really big deal. But thinking about I suppose baptism has a different meaning to Protestants than other religions. While still significant it’s not a saving ordinance or sacrament as believed in other churches. Thanks for your response
@@mackenziekanis3096 This is a really clean, succinct way to explain "differences" in denominations. Augustine once said "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity."
I love you great work you are doing for God. I love that you and Christians all over are helping others to come unto Christ, learn of Him, and accept Him into their hearts. You are doing so much good by posting these videos. Re: History of apostacy - There are times when the children of God have moved away from at least some of the truths taught them requiring a new dispensation. I believe in general people believe there are seven dispensations. There would be no need for a dispensation (dispensing of truth) if there was not a movement away from truth. Re: World corrupting church - As you pointed out there were false teachings which the apostles (primarily Paul) needed to correct as the church grew larger and larger. These false beliefs did not stop suddenly when Paul was killed. Because of the rapid growth of the church there were many erroneous beliefs which took hold in various churches. This became bad enough after a few hundred years that first council of Nicaea was called. Another few hundred years after that another council had to be called. The decisions made there were not made by apostles. The churches had already lost that heirarchy of authority hundreds of years earlier. Re: Upon this rock - Well, I knew this would come up, even if you didn't at the time. We believe that though Simon was called Peter (petros vs petra), Christ is the Stone of Israel, He is The Rock. We believe that He said He would (future tense) build His church, not on Peter (a man); but on that which cometh from God (revelation): "17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:17-18). Also Acts 8:13-24 helps us to see that even those who believe and then are baptized do not attain the priesthood power. His heart was "not right in the sight of God" (vs 21) wanting to buy the priesthood. Here's what catches my attention: if the priesthood was not conferred upon people by those having authority (the apostles), then why would he try to buy it from them? Why would he not simply claim he was sufficiently changed to the degree that he would have the priesthood? Re: Fruit - Amen. When we see good fruit we can know that it was good works that brought it about so that others can glorify God. I see Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and others performing good works and seeing fruit from their good works. And indeed what you and other Christians, and good people around the world, are seeing and experiencing are wonderful. Learning about and living the Gospel of Jesus Christ is like someone who has never tried ice cream before, they are given an ice cream cone and they love it. It's so delicious, especially on a hot day. But those who do good works; but don't believe and accept Jesus Christ may only be tasting vanilla. Yes it's delicous; but there are other great flavors out there. They are missing so much. Christians recognize other great flavors so the fruit we enjoy can be more flavorful. I would propose to you that the additional knowledge which Latter-Day Saints have is akin to mix-in items (Oreos, nuts, caramel or chocolate syrup...etc...) it adds even more to ice cream. The rest of the world gets too caught up in saying that what they've found is so good that the Church of Jesus Christ can't possibly be better than what they already have. Sorry for the long comments. Please keep these coming. I love what you're doing and God will bless you.
Jeff, I have a lot of respect for you and admire you for your open-mindedness and willingness to explore the teachings and doctrine of our church. I have watched several of your videos and I really enjoy them, but I always come back to one thing... The Book of Mormon! Have your read it, Jeff? None of us, members, can truly profess to having what we call, a "testimony" of the truthfulness of our church, it's teachings, leadership or origins, without having read that book and then received some sort of a spiritual confirmation that it is true, and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. As you may well know, when God allows your mind to be spiritually enlighened, where truth is profoundly confirmed to you and implaned in your soul, the words of others become pretty insignificant. This is why rejection, persecution, false accusations, etc... have little to no affect, on many of the members of our church. We are, for the most part, a happy group of people. We love our families and we love God and appreciate His blessings and goodness in our lives. Mostly we just want to share the message of peace and love. We desire to help others feel the same comfort and safety we enjoy with our knowledge of who we are and why we are here. We believe God's goal for each of His children is our own eternal happiness and progression. One of the purposes of the Holy Ghost (or Holy spirit, as some refer to Him) is the divine mission of bringing to our remembrance and/or bearing witness to God's children, of the truth of all things. It is the same for all mankind. And when a person experiences this level of understanding and is enlightened by The Spirit, it can rarely be forgotten or denied. If any of that does sound a bit foreign to you, (or any others outside of our church, reading this) please let me expain it just a bit... Many scriptural passages in the bible can be broadly interpreted, as far as: meaning, context, reference importance, relevance, etc... It can often be the same passages that vary drastically based on a number of factors, and even because of vuluntary filters that are attached with the interpretation. In my humble opinion, your inerpretation of the scriptures I've heard you reference, in rebuttal to our views or practices are not solid or convincing arguements. Because it is that very aspect of scriptural fluidity that creates the chaos and confusion in the Christian world. We all believe in the Bible as the word of God, but differ in our views, still the same. There is a reason for the disconnect which gives rise to all the different religious denominations that we see today. Jesus Christ established one single church when he walked the earth. It was His church. He still is and always has been at the head of His church. But discipleship doesnt just take place in His church exclusivy, as we well know. Christ will lead whomever will follow Him. You and I, and all other God fearing Christians are disciples of Christ. And all people who seek truth will find it. His light and love are available to anyone and everyone and so is His church. We believe that Jesus was simple in his teachings. Although He was met with opposition by the proud of heart, and they sowed the seeds of confusion, Jesus was easy for even children to understand. The meek, humble and pure of heart were the enlightened ones who understood the deeper meanings of his messages and could clearly see the pathway he was laying out. What most of us, the actual members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, have in common, is the fact that we have read the Book of Mormon and believe it with all our hearts. And in reading it with an open heart and mind , we have experienced something wonderful that many others have not and many who want to convince us to deny or question what we have received from God.We have felt the power of the Holy Ghost bear witness to us, in our hearts and in our minds, of the truthfulness and authenticity of the Book of Mormon. It has never made sense to me that people will attempt to analyze or explain, our church, its functions or its practices withoout ever exploring the heart of our religion. It is validating signature of our religion. And aside from that it is filled with beautiful and inspiring stories and message. It is a plethora of valuable information and is offered to everyone. We are all God's children! It is not "Our" book! It is a miraculous gift from God our Father, to those who are truly humble and willing to learn. A gift can only manifest itself when it is received by someone. We, the members, know we have received a genuine and invaluable gift. We want to share the gift but how can we share it when people are focused on the wrapping? Open the gift, Jeff. Please... read the Book of Mormon if you haven't already, then pray to know if it's true. I hope yiu will do this before going on about the points of doctrine that you are disputing. Not everyone will, or does, feel the same about the Book of Mormon. But I don't think that it can be argued that we, as a whole in our church, are headed in a good direction. I will say this, and I believe I speak for most of us, members... The greatest and most renowned Christian scholars in the world, would not have the influential power, means or ability to convince a clear- minded, intelligent human being, that God the Father and Jesus Christ, appeared to, and personally spoke with, a 14 year old farm boy around the early 1820's, just because he prayed to know which church to join! Then later, charged that same young man with the task of restoring the original gospel of Jesus Christ, and the priesthood authority back to the earth. Jeff, we are not sheep who follow blindly. We are level-headed individuals who have taken a leap of faith and put our logic aside to take on the challenge of the Book of Mormon prophet, Moroni, to READ the Book of Mormon, then pray and ask God if it is true. I believe that if you will do the same, and do it with an open mind and a heart with real intent to be able to discern truth or error, then I feel you will be qualified to talk about our religion with a much deeper understanding and the proper perspective. What if you are wrong and you are trying to disway others from partaking of something that is truly delicious and good for them but your own ignorance deprived them of the opportunity and all because you had now tried it yourself. That is risky business when you are doing the Lord's work. Please open up your heart, with sincere humility, to the possibility that we're not followers because we have been deceived or misled, but that maybe we know something that you don't. Of course, for you, that revelation could be devastating to business, right? If Joseph Smith was a true prophet, where does that leave you in your ministry? And your ministry?? The good thing to know is that there is only black or white. Either Joseph Smith is/and was, a true prophet of God, who saw what he said he saw, and did what he said he did, which makes all other arguments irrelevant amd authenticate the Book of Mormon as another testimemt of Jesus Christ. The alternative being that Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud! In which case, the Book of Mormon was a fabricated book full of deceit. One of those would serve to draw you closer to God and to the love of God and man. The other would serve to draw a wedge between God and man ultimately leading us to misery and endless wo, as is always the purpose of Satan. God either used Joseph Smith for his own purposes or Satan did. Too many have tried to explain the book away and after many decades, they can't!! IT IS SIMPLY ONE OR THE OTHER!! What are "The Fruits" of The Book of Mormon? You decide. But you certainly can't do that without reading it first!
actually, you can. it is completely possible to have a testimony of the truthfulness without having read the BoM. Perhaps it is rare, but it does happen. never say never. absolutes are rarely ever true, especially when the power of God is behind it :)
Respectfully, the apparently unexamined premise upon which most of protestant teaching is based is the "completeness" and "sufficiency" of the Bible. For example, Pastor Jeff says he looks at the Bible and doesn't see an emphasis on ordinances (I disagree, but put that aside), so he concludes that ordinances are not necessary to Christ's gospel. But that's not logical, unless you also believe that the Bible contains everything necessary for our salvation, and there can be no source of truth outside the Bible. But that premise, to avoid self-contradiction, must be found IN THE BIBLE. It isn't. In fact, it couldn't be, because "The Bible" didn't exist as a whole until hundreds of years after the latest of its latest included writings.
Really enjoyed that video! I'm curious to know how do you understand this scripture (amos 8:11-12) "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it." Thank you for sharing your thoughts !
Thank you sharing your beliefs on this topic. It is interesting to see the differences you point out among different denominations. I liked your frankness about the church straying and being brought back, which coukd be analogies to individuals who stray and are brought back. You referenced Matthew 16:18 which I saw in another of your videos. I have heard a different understanding of that. The context for that verse is the preceding verses where Christ asks his disciples who they say He is. Simon Peter responds that Christ is the Son of God, and Christ tells him he knows this through revelation from Father in Heaven. It is this "rock" of revelation that hell cannot prevail against and upon which Christ's kingdom will be built. Christ called attention to this, using Peter's name, which means rock, to emphasize that Peter "the rock" has received revelation which is the rock , or bedrock foundation, for Christ's kingdom.
@@amynazza Yes, it does. Similarly, in Matthew 5:48 Christ refers to our Heavenly Father separately, as He tells us to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
@@amynazza …the Trinity is an expression of the nature of God. The Father is NOT the Son, they are 2 different persons yet in a miraculous way they are of the same essence in one being. So the Trinity can be used to explain ALL the verses in the Bible both Old and New Testament. Showing the Father and the Son as separate people doesn’t disprove the Trinity in any way. I think this is misunderstood by many of the LDS unfortunately. Hope my explanation was helpful. You don’t have to believe that the Trinity is how you want to define the nature of God, but perhaps it can help to make it more clear as to why any example of the Father and Jesus as 2 individual people doesn’t detract us from our understanding of God’s true nature.
I can certainly follow the logic and support the idea that so much good comes from Christian lifestyles and His grace is what makes all the difference… but the restoration brings more. Christ sought out John the Baptist for his priesthood authority to Baptize so it must matter too. Perhaps like marriage ceremonies which are an outward expression of an inward commitment… but the one officiating needs to be ordained to be recognized by the law.
Are you saying John the Baptist held the priesthood? Can you share verses with me where I can read that. Honestly, I never saw the connection between prophet and priesthood. So interesting. Thank you!
@@DistinctiveThinking See Hebrews 5:4, Luke 7, & Matthew 11 (KJV) …and more has been revealed in the restoration of priesthood and the church of Jesus Christ… but even without it… makes sense that’s why He went to him, no?
I think learning what other religions believe is absolutely fascinating, and it helps strengthen my own faith. I'm so very glad that you are kind about it, too - there are so many people, especially those who left the church, who are embittered and cruel about it.
More than anything else, I'm eager to see your videos regarding your earnest study of the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ. I'm seeing all these videos about what members of the church of Jesus Christ believe about certain doctrines, or about your thoughts after reading Rough Stone Rolling, or other topics. I'm constantly interested in your investigation of the Book of Mormon along with the Bible; or in other words, the stick of Ephraim made one with the stick of Juda, as prophesied in Ezekiel 37. The Bible is the stick of Juda, and the Book of Mormon is the stick of Ephraim.
@@davidjanbaz7728 I keep seeing your name on tons of comments here. Trolling much? The great thing about this channel is the open discussion, respectful and tolerant and kindness emanating from all sides, and your comments are killing the vibe. Please don't ruin the good spirit that is being generated here with your love of arguments...
I shared this weeks ago right after he went to the LDS Conference in Salt Lake. Nobody seems to teach these truths anymore as the Stick (or scroll) of Judah and the Scroll or Stick of Joseph ( the chosen Son of Ephraim who was sold into Egypt) So I'm curious where you first learned this? You must study a lot and be a Missionary?
...from what I'm reading in the Book of Mormon Alma 10:3 "...Lehi, who came out of the land of Jerusalem, who was a descendant of Manasseh..." So not Ephraim. I know they were brothers, but if you're being specific, Lehi's family is from Manasseh NOT Ephraim according to the Book of Mormon. So that scripture doesn't work in Ezekiel 37. Secondly, Ezekiel received this revelation while the Israelites were in captivity in Babylon. This was a beautiful representation of the Norther tribes (Ephraim) re-uniting with the Southern tribes (Judah) as they had been in battle against each other for several years. (See footnote 22d Ezekial 37:22 LDS KJV) When Ezekiel wrote the names Ephraim and Judah on the two sticks, he put them together in his hand so it would look like ONE stick and help it up in the air. Thus symbolizing their reunion. Later Ezekial states in verse 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall no more be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all....vs 24 and David my servant (one could say this is Jesus) shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments and observe my statues.... 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt, and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children and their children's children for ever and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. So, did the Nephites or Laminates or any of the Book of Mormon people come over to the mountains of Israel? Were they united with the tribe of Judah having David (Jesus) as their King? Did they create one nation? FYI, a stick is a stick, not a scroll and even if it were, the Book of Mormon wasn't a scroll it was an apparent metal codex which is a book not a scroll. When Mormon abridged the B of M it was from the other prophets who wrote on metal books (codex) not scrolls. None of the Book of Mormon writings were in scrolls according to the Book of Mormon. So, respectfully, I don't see how the Book of Mormon fulfilled the Ezekial 37 prophecy in any way.
I once had a 6 hour drive together with a friend who was a protestant. We spend the entire time sharing back and forth many experiences we and others around us have had of Christ's presence and power in our lives. These spiritual events follow them that have faith in Christ, and no church has a monopoly on faith. I don't see spiritual outpourings in other churches as contrary evidence against there being an apostacy. At the same time you can't be one who chases after signs and wonders or you could mislead by one like talked of in Matt 7:22-23
@@BGCflyer Yes, but by that we mean the church is the only one directly lead by Christ through living prophets and apostles, and only the church has the priesthood authority of God to perform saving ordinances. It doesn't mean we have a monopoly on faith in Christ, or a monopoly on any gifts of the spirit.
@12:58 So what is the fruit of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Have you studied it’s fruit? The works that have been done in the world? The people who have been brought unto Christ by missionaries even if they chose to not be baptized? The fruit is great and good. And even if you don’t consider yourself to believe all we do, you can’t say we are a church of the devil. We as a whole do much good for the cause of Christ.
If the priesthood were really restored according to LDS church teaching, why do LDS priests not do the blood sacrifices of animals that were the priests' main job in the temple? Protestants believe that Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God, sacrificed for our sins once for all. He fulfilled the OT priesthood requirements of the law by shedding his own blood. The veil in the temple was ripped in two from top to bottom, signifying the end of the OT sacrificial system. Jesus is our great high priest, the only Melchisadek priest. Hebrews 7:11 - 10:25.
Latter-day Saints believe those same things about sacrifices being done away in Christ. However, we still believe in the necessity of priesthood for ordinances such as baptism, like when Christ was baptized by John.
I know this channel is intended to be respectful, so I hope my comment will not be viewed as too harsh or disrespectful. I am an ex-Mormon who is now a member of a mainline Protestant church (Episcopal). I often wonder why if the Catholic church is considered to be apostate by LDS folks, because of its history of error, such as selling of indulgences, the crusades, the inquisition, torturing and killing heretics, etc., how is it that the modern LDS church is not similarly in apostasy through its own errors? Polygamy, racism, hoarding wealth, scripture that is not what it claims to be (i.e. translations of real ancient records), teaching that God is Adam or that God was once a man, blood atonement, the November 2015 policy of exclusion, etc. So many errors the LDS church has committed over the years, in my view, it has apostatized from not only Biblical Christianity, but also from its own scriptures and its own original teachings and practices.
First, keep in mind that the Catholic Church with all its problems has remained strong in 2000 years. There will always be apostasy until the end of time. But has there been an obliteration of the teachings of Christ? Of course not. And keep in mind too, that the bad things that happened in the Catholic Church, and there were many, was not the WHOLE church but sinners who did not follow Christ. I am a Catholic. I hate the terrible things that happened. But there were good popes and priests and followers who kept the church alive. Just as there are terrible things happening in every religion on earth. There are no exceptions.There are terrible things that American politicians do but is our country all bad? Think about it. Peace!
Interestingly enough, LDS Doctrine also fits into the universal priesthood belief. There are kind of two different ways we talk about the priesthood, one being the organization and specific functions (keys) or positions within the organization, but also just the most basic definition which is the power of God. And we believe that everyone has access to that power through their faith in Him.
You should listen to the talk called "Why 1820" by Hyrum Smith. He outlines a time-line of the great apostasy and explains it in a little more detail then a short video can.
Great video, Jeff. Thank you. I have to say that the writings of the early church fathers helped lead me to the Catholic Church from Protestantism. We view the practices and beliefs (infant baptism, transubstantiation, etc.) mentioned in the Saints Unscripted clip as Scriptural and correct, while the Protestant and LDS practices that came well over 1,000 years later as incorrect.
Loved the video! I learned something new, which I love doing! I liked what you said about good fruit, it's something we (I'm a member of the Church) talk about too. I believe the Church has good fruit and it's also what I've been taught. I'm curious about what you think of the fruit of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Do you think it is good fruit? If so, does it relate to the good fruit of the rest of Christianity? If it's good fruit, Jesus' fruit, does that validate my beliefs?
Thanks for all your videos. As a LDS member I would recommend reading the 13 articles of faith which is at the end of the Pearl of Great Price. It would make a great video for you to read them and give your perspective. My birth family is all evangelical so your videos has given me so much perspective and understanding of what you all believe and how it relates to my beliefs. Thank you again.
Everyone goes after the Catholics, but what was it about the 1840s Prodestant Church Joseph Smith still had a problem with, I wonder..? Still didn't press the reset button hard enough?
Question: If the Bible says the Children of the Devil are EVIDENT and your religion falls into that category (Children of the Devil) is that the time to IGNORE Scripture? See 1 John 3:10-18
Here's a few biblical scriptures about the great apostasy: Isaiah 24:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Amos 8:11-12. And the restoration: Acts 3:20-21, Ephesians 1:10.
I’ve watched several of these videos over the past few weeks. While I believe you have a desire to understand the beliefs and teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is becoming more and more apparent to me with each video that your interest is more for the sake of finding fault with and combating those beliefs via your interpretation of scripture and understanding of ‘Christian tradition’. Often, the very scripture you cite as ‘evidence’ to discredit a particular belief through your interpretation could be used by a latter-day saint as evidence of its legitimacy by their understanding of that same scripture. Please believe, I’m not here to say who is right and who is wrong. I believe there is at least some portion of truth in all religions, including those outside of Christianity (e.g. Judaism, Islam, etc.). And I’d wager that if you were to survey individuals on whether they believed the particular path they’ve chosen to follow is the ‘true’ one, 90% or more would answer affirmatively. Or why else would they follow it? However, Christ has said that He is the only way by which we can return to our Father in Heaven (John 14:6). So, while there may be myriad paths from which to choose, He has made it quite clear that only the one He has established will lead to the destination He has made possible. And it then behooves those who have a true desire to reach that destination to seek out and know with certainty they are following His prescribed ‘strait and narrow path’. I believe I have found that path; as I’m sure you believe you have as well. But do either of us KNOW? There is a sure way that we can. Follow the instructions laid out in James 1:5-6 and the wisdom we seek with unwavering faith will be given by a loving Heavenly Father who desires nothing more than to have His children live eternally with Him.
Which is the same .. inactive lds however got friends on there mission's and as a returned missionary and also when insay inactive it's because of work sometimes I can't go church for a month because of work .. however I leave my hob with my wife to go on our family mission next year July 2023 we will be getting our calling
@@anthonynettleton8346 , actually it is not the same. Biblical Christianity is people who see the Bible as its only Scripture, finding the doctrines and teachings of Christ in the Bible alone. Latter Day Saints believe in the Bible along with other books as Scripture, as well as the words from the prophet and other leaders of the church.
I'm so grateful that Heavenly Father has blessed us with prophets. The world can be confused very easily, but following the prophet and apostles can bring clarity and peace. So very thankful that we can receive constant guidance from the Father through his messengers and the ability to receive personal revelation 🙏
I had no idea this belief was taught in the LDS faith. Are there any other aspects to the Great Apostasy that didn't get covered in this video?
I’m a Lutheran who has lived in Utah my whole life. But the way the missionaries described it to me was that because of all the persecution that was going on, the full gospel was withheld. Then once God knew the entire gospel would survive, he revealed it to Joseph smith. That’s also why that one speaker at general conference called the BoM the most true book ever, because they believe the Bible has some issues due to human corruption over the years whereas the Book of Mormon was transcribed from its original form on the tablets and has remained true ever since.
@@dylanmoore2438 Yes, as someone who was raised LDS, this is another aspect of the Great Apostasy that is taught. The LDS Church teaches that many "pure and simple" parts of the gospel were removed from the Bible during this time of apostasy, which is another reason given for why the Book of Mormon was necessary: to restore those teachings.
I'm looking forward to your exploration and perspective on the LDS view of priesthood! I think that will fill in any gaps that this great explanation by David Snell had. As an LDS member, I'm grateful for living prophets that can provide revelation pertinent to me in our day. It gives me additional guidance to complement my scripture study and prayer.
The priesthood explanation will also likely fill in some gaps on our view on ordinances as it relates to the apostasy that the video mentioned but didn't detail. Thank you, Jeff, for always sharing your beliefs, it's true that "where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
I am all about facts and truth. Great apostasy makes sense why God is the same yesterday; today; and forever. That is why he will always call a prophet to lead his children and have a true organization with His priesthood restored to do ordinances correctly. So yes; the priesthood is very important and please keep learning it and how Joseph Smith received it from God. Plaster Jeff every LDS member who has the priesthood can trace back their priesthood authority back to Jesus Christ.
I think you can't really understand the great apostasy without understanding all of the other apostasies that occurred throughout scripture. Enoch, Moses, Elijah and many other prophets were called to restore priesthood keys at individual times. The history of the world has a pattern of apostasy and restoration that is evidence of God's love and constancy toward his children.
I'm a Latter-day Saint, and I just want to say that for as long as I have known other Christians in my life I have always admired among the Protestants the depth and sincerity of their discipleship of Jesus Christ. Hearing you speak of Him with such love and devotion fills my heart and soul with just as much joy as my own worship experience does in our chapels and temples and in my own study. I see you as a brother in Christ, and I also sincerely appreciate your efforts to understand our perspective. You are by far the most genuine example of this that I have come across.
Same here, l am even learning do much from him, topping up my base and l get touched each say by how he speaks of the Savior with so much conviction 🌸
I agree. I am also LDS, and I find these videos to demonstrate the love of Christ in every word and deed. It's the absolute love of Christ and his testimony that resonates with me.
That is a lovely message to this sweet Pastor. He is an outstanding man of God. His goodness and gentleness touch my spirit as Jesus has throughout my life. He is truly a Godsend. The Lord is working through him. I feel. And uniting Christians all over the world.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose There is no salvation in the LDS church or Islam. I Corinthians 15 tells us what the true gospel is. Jesus Christ shed his blood, died and rose again. Christ did the one work that was necessary to reconcile all mankind to God. It is not about what you can do for God but about what God has already done for you by sending Jesus Christ to be your substitute on the cross.
All you need to read is lay all your religiosity down at the foot of the cross and accept Christ by faith.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose
You are definitely responsible for your own sins.
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Leviticus 17
You need a blood sacrifice.
I served an LDS mission in the mid-east states, and it was my pleasure to interact with many different Christian denominations. In this day and age when there is so much trying to erode the values of all Christians, it is so important that we stand together in our belief in Christ.
I absolutely love the openness that you are approaching our teachings, trying to understand, but not judge or condemn. Thanks for being a great example!
But you preach a very, very different Christ...a brother to Lucifer, lol
@@TheRonster1954 you people obsess much more about this relationship than we do. It is never mentioned once in all the Book of Mormon and other scriptures of the restoration. It is a footnote, an afterthought, a logical extrapolation from the primary (and amply scriptural) facts that God is our Father in heaven, and Jesus Christ is His Firstborn.
Those truths are our focus.
My friend, I love the Mormon people but your faith is in another Jesus and in a different gospel than is found in God's word, the Bible.
@Empisee additionally to that, the one significance to understanding that Satan is a fallen sibling in spirit, along with all his angels, is that not only are we being attacked by an entity Hates us and God, but an entity that KNOWS us personally and therefore knows HOW to hurt us and tear us down. Understanding the reality of our enemy is the first line of defense.
@@wheels636 I would love very much to agree with everything that you said. But the fact that your faith teaches you that even Heavenly Father was once simply a man who had a god before himself, that's simply not the God of the Bible who never was not eternal God. You've heard this before, I'm almost sure. So, how can we walk together if we are not headed in the same diection to the same destination?
I’m LDS and I wish more people would learn about each other’s religions the way that you are doing. You do it with respect. You don’t have anger and it’s great to see what Protestants believe too.
Actually he tries to tear down the church of Jesus Christ of ladder day saints with a very clever “ trying to understand and investigate approach” Like a passive aggressive compliment. He spends little to no time really investigating in an unbiased journalist approach. He is a paid preacher belonging to a denomination that would never allow him to be impartial in his approach. Does he take a theological view of other churches and see how a particular aspect of belief and doctrine are incorporated, no. His church like many churches are losing membership. This is a subtle, clever and non aggressive way to attack a particular theology . He has never responded to me, nor do I think he ever will. The great deceiver does not always appear as a horned beast or fanged serpent. Be aware of his subtle sweet kind presentations. There is and end game at hand.
@@richardchandler9027 That hasn’t been my experience watching his videos. His videos seem to follow a pattern. 1. Listen to LDS church teachings to understand the LDS religion 2. Say what he likes or dislikes about those teachings 3. Talk about what he believes and what Protestants believe. I don’t feel any malice or hate from his videos. In one of his videos he defends Latter Day Saints during our general conference when he saw people yelling at people while going to General Conference. Even while defending us it wasn’t with anger and it was a very peaceful encounter. At no point did I feel he was trying to lead LDS members away. I think it’s interesting to hear what he believes versus what we believe. Nothing he says changes my beliefs, but we can all listen for understanding just as he does in his videos. Just because he understands what we believe doesn’t mean he has to change what he believes.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose the church announced support for a bill promising to safeguard both the LGBTQ right to marriage and the right of religious institutions to choose which marriages to perform, which is not the same as accepting and supporting same sex marriage
As a recent convert to the LDS church I really enjoy and appreciate your discussions. Thank you.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose It sounds like the hereafter in Islam is similar to the Mormon or LDS church are similar. But I will study Islam because I belive we have the same God. Just different prophets. Thanks for the note.
For those interested, here’s an LDS perspective on the passage about Peter.
“The Greek text makes it clear that the “rock” in verse 18 was not Peter. The Greek word used for Peter is petros, a masculine noun meaning a small rock or stone. The Greek word for rock (“upon this rock”) is petra, a feminine noun meaning bedrock. Thus, the Greek text reads like this: “Thou art Peter [petros, small rock], and upon this rock [petra, bedrock] I will build my church.”
In other words, Christ is the rock. There is no other rock we can build on, including Peter, that will bring us Salvation. Christ is the only rock we can build on with any confidence.
Matthew 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
As I read it, he said that flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. In other words it was a personal revelation to Peter from God the Father. That is the rock that the true Church is founded on. Without personal revelation there is no rock and no true Church. That's how a falling away happens. Short of that is all lip service.
@@davidjanbaz7728 so true. Matthew also teaches that you will know them by their fruits. The fruit of Joseph Smith is The Book of Mormon. To know if he was a false prophet, you will need to read that book with an open heart and contrite spirit to God and then ask God in prayer if the book’s message is true. God will then reveal the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. I believe that God will answer all sincere seekers of truth.
@David Gillis going off that, God answers in his own time. I've known people, myself included, that have received answers to questions right away. And I've known people, myself included, that had to wait.
On top of that, I've met people that received prompt answers to questions regarding the book of Mormon, and I've met people that had to wait. Waiting on the Lord, it's does not mean going on with your business. It means testing what He says. Live it, prove it, and the answers will come. I was invited to attend the baptism of a man who married a member of the church 19 years before. Loved her, supported her, went to church with her, held callings in the ward, raised his children LDS. But he was never baptized in those 19 years because he hadn't yet received an answer. But he kept living the gospel with his family, waiting for an answer. U til one night, on a business trip, he some up in the middle of the night and got his answer. And he made arrangements to be baptized.
@@davidjanbaz7728 All the Prophets were mocked, stoned, driven out and killed, including Jesus Christ, his Apostles, and many of his followers. Joseph Smith was also mocked, driven out and killed. But the work which he began, continues on because it is the work of God.
So, that’s not just a LDS idea. Most Christians would agree that Jesus is our rock. Roman Catholics see that verse as meaning the Apostle Peter. The rock is referenced in the psalms and other parts of the Old Testament. God is our rock and our salvation. It represents an unchanging Gospel. The same yesterday, today and forever!
I am LDS. I am a convert. At this point I am in my sixties. I have been a member for twenty five years. I came to the Church after many years in Protestant Christianity. I used to think that there was little difference between the denominations. Recently I discovered "Ready to Harvest" on UA-cam. Through that exceptional channel I have come to understand how the different denominations are not really the same. Each one will cite chapter and verse why they believe what they do and the vast majority of them are so different from each other that they cannot really said to be the same religion. I gain more understanding because of resources such as RTH why there is a dire need for a living Prophet and the Restoration. If I may suggest an exploration of RTH on your own so you can see the tremendous confusion there is in Christendom, you may well begin to really understand the LDS Church and its mission.
Romans 10:9, you sound a bit confused bud
I’m a Protestant Christian and I can tell you with out question, the differences in the denominations are secondary, not primary. There is more of a split between the inerrancy of the Bible, gay marriage, etc. but there is NO discrepancy on the trinity, the nature of the godhead, salvation, the primary issues. If you really take the time to study, you’ll see those issues are secondary.
You are totally confused.
Pastor what's your point?? Yes Jesus Christ is the head of this church. None else
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I
I love this and all of your content! It's so helpful to see another perspective without the hate that is found in other people when talking about something I value so much!
I can feel the love that you have for the gospel and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Thank you for taking the time and the care that you do with these topics!
ua-cam.com/video/XMZfL293lbA/v-deo.html
Thanks for the reaction to this.
One thing I want to point out is that Latter-Day Saints are generally grateful for the teachers of the early Catholic church as well as reformers like Martin Luther. While we believe that priesthood authority was revoked during that time, that does not mean there wasn't an enormous amount of good still happening in the world. There are some who even say that it was part of God's plan for Catholicism and Protestantism to keep the Christian flame alive until the church could be restored. That statement is not intended to devalue the work that you or other righteous pastors or even catholic priests or jewish rabbis or muslim clerics do in their congregations around the world - you are all amazing, and doing what you can with the light and knowledge that is given to you. We are all just trying our best, and hoping that the fruit of our labors will shine forth to magnify the glory of deity for others.
And honestly, having any light is better than having no light. When we say other churches don't have the fullness, we don't mean it to sound derogatory or like an insult. Other churches have bits and pieces of what Christ originally taught, but none have all of them.
It would be really interesting to see you attend a High School Seminary Class or even an Institute class! As a high schooler, it would be awesome to see your reaction to what the younger generation is learning on a daily basis
It'd be interesting to see for sure
That's a great suggestion
Ya'all get wrapped real good on the axle about your interpretations of a group of writings that have been translated enough to raise plenty of issues... Here's my testimony... the fact is God loves us, all of us. He sent his son to atone and die for us .. That's it, and it's all that matters, as a Christian I'll stand next to any of you arm in arm in the gap regardless of your denomination or the way you interpret doctrine. Our heavenly father will sort the rest and make it square in his time. God bless and keep you and yours in these turbulent days.
This is such a fantastic idea! I think it would be so great if you could possibly come to one of our CES schools, especially on a devotional day. I'm a current student at BYU-IDAHO in rexburg and it is really an amazing thing to experience the Spirit on campus and witness the faculty members share their own thoughts and testimonies with the students.
Totally agree!🙏
Hi Pastor Jeff, l am member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, l am a South African. I have been watching your videos since recently and l look forward to the next video all the time, l have actually learned so much even about the mainstream Christianity from your videos but most importantly you are helping me re-learn and learn new things l never took though to really find out about my church. You are a great teacher and learner, your humility will take Christianity as a whole far, l believe you are inspired of God to do what you are doing, closing the gap that shouldn't even be there between us who accepted the Savior of we profess to be His followers, Thank you God bless you. I love you my dear brother 🌸
@ Zikhona Mpekula - praise God for you too. I’m mainstream Christian but I’m learning so much about the LDS faith through this channel. So that shows that the pastor is doing a good job if both sides are learning about each others’ beliefs. God bless you as well.
👋🏽 please come to SLC and visit the great and spacious city creek mall… ❤❤❤ I’ll bet you are there less than ten minutes before you are so uncomfortable that you decide your LDS church doesn’t like people of color… trust a Navajo, formerly a lamanite
That's just people not God nor Jesus Christ.
@@zikhonampekula6405 exactly! “Gentiles” that claim to have an Israeli blood transfusion upon baptism… and they used to teach that Native Americans had that Israeli blood although their skin was also “cursed with blackness”… until DNA evidence said otherwise, and destroyed the whole point of the Book of Mormon. Very sad actually…
Love and light my dear sister🤍
As a non LDS believer-this is so interesting to me! I did not know the LDS church taught this and so much of the teachings there now make more sense. You did a very good job describing the view of a protestant as it relates to what I think as I read the Bible about Christ's church. Thank you for these videos!
I was really impressed with the way you did this video. You watched and commented on what was being said showing that you understand. Then you explained the difference on belief. That was really helpful to me since I am unfamiliar with Protestant beliefs.
Been really enjoying your videos as a fellow Protestant minister it’s been very helpful!
What an awesome video! I love love love that you are able to watch David and then relate to the truths that lign up with your beliefs while calmly and politely seperating the differences. You're getting a lot better at not being reactionary or biased but rather studious to the LDS church. I respect that so much. I have done a similar approach whenever I meet Christians. Before I even tell them I'm LDS I ask them more about their beliefs. I pray for the day where Christians can interact with LDS without vehemently launching into the "your Jesus is a false Jesus" narrative. Keep up the great job Jeff. You're truly doing God's work brother.
Thank you for the respect you show to the LDS church and for being a reasonable truth seeking Christian who is willing to learn, understand and to get along with everyone.
God sets out clearly in the bible those he has to lead his church. 1 Corinthians 12:28 backed up by Ephesians 2:19-20, 4:5, 4:11-14. Once the apostles are killed, no more church, just records until the world was almost ready to have again a prophet and apostles without killing them. The great apostasy is the time between the original apostles dying and the church being restored back to the earth by a prophet. The great apostasy was prophesied in the Bible: (Isaiah 24:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Amos 8:11-12). Now we are in the last dispensation or the dispensation of the fullness of times (Ephesians 1:10). A restitution of all things was also prophesied (Acts 3:21)
During the great apostasy, each new church that was formed only had the bible to best interpret what they could, however no living apostles and prophets. Now, with all the different Christian churches dotting the planet, only 2 have the name of Jesus Christ on them (the church of Christ and the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Only 2 churches have a significant missionary program that follows Matthew 28:29-20 with 1 having a much bigger program (Jehovah's witnesses and the LDS church with the bigger missionary program) and only 1 church claims to have apostles and prophets receiving revelation from God to actively guide it.
The clues are all in the bible and the pieces of the puzzle are all there. As a convert, I could not conceive that God could direct through anything other than the bible and had no idea of a living church directed by God until after I gained a testimony.
Question: If the Bible says the Children of the Devil are EVIDENT and your religion falls into that category (what he describes as the Children of the Devil) is that the time to IGNORE Scripture? See 1 John 3:10-18. I KNOW this is heavy. But you need to surrender! It is time for you to fall on your knees and pray because your Church is false. Mormons continue to KILL each other for pagan apostate leaders! Why? It doesn't make LOGICAL sense and the SCRIPTURES are very clear.
I do commend you for being methodical. You should be. But you should look more closely at what the scriptures say about true Christianity--what it would be like. Look at what God hates, and you will start to see even more evidence that your Church too is false. 1 John 3:10-18 is a major blow, but there are others too.
Would you mind explaining how that's a major blow? The Church clearly teaches to love one another and not only to say it but to express it in deed
@@andrewross6682 Well it does more than just saying it. And if a person says the love you and buys you gifts but later is willing to kill you doesn't that negate the previous expressions? If my wife were to try to kill me even after some pretty good stuff, I would probably feel that is an irreconcilable offense. Maybe I'd cherish some of those moments but the attempt to kill would be a done deal for most people.
We are brothers and sisters. But in times of war we commit fratricide? Is that love? True Christians would love their brother and sister enough, that they are like YOU ARE TOO VALUABLE for that. WE can find a better solution. If a worldly leader says: "Kill that guy." You will say: "That guy is my brother! We have the same values. WE are united. I can't kill him." You can't say you love your brother if you are willing to kill him. Christians are not bound by borders. We belong to Christ first!
Even in a street fight between two strangers, you wouldn't encourage them to fight. You would say don't fight! Its not worth it. You are BETTER THAN THAT!
Early Christians were not in the military and if Caesar put them in the arena, they would not fight each other. Today, worldly political leaders ask Christians to kill each other for what? Water, food, land, money, etc? Isn't your beloved brother more valuable than those things? Rather, true Christians would look at the problem and say what is it and what other solution can we come up with. They wouldn't commit genocide in the streets!
HOw does this reflect on Churches? Because they don't uphold this Christian requirement. A Christian CANNOT kill another Christian. (We are not talking self defense.) You cannot kill you brohter and at the same time say you love him. But Churches allow worldly leaders to divide so-called Christians and use them in a cat and mouse game. A true Christian would say, I can't violate my conscience. That man did me no wrong. As beloved family we can find a solution. We are ONE in Christ Jesus!
But religions don't do this. People of all the major religions fought one anohter in world war 1 and 2. (Jesus said by their fruits you will recognize imposters.) In Rwanda, people worshiped Hutu and Tutsi in the same buildings for centuries. It was a so-called Christian nation. But were they true Christians? They did what the political leader said: SLAUGHTER THEM ALL! Was that the Christian thing to do because some wicked guy says slaugther your Christian brother? (If a political leader tells you to slaugther your mom and father, slaughter your brother and sister, would you do it? This is why is says NOT IN WORD but in DEED and TRUTH! If you kill your Christian brother is it not love in DEED and it is not in TRUTH love!)
If it happens in a local congregation, that tells you something is wrong with that congregation. YOu would say that: "I go there adn they fight all the time. I dont know what is going on in that Church." But if it is not just that local church but it is systemic, should you not say what is that Church teaching their people?
Jesus said a house divided cannot stand. But so-called Christians are divided by nationality and race. Is that Christian? Or is it WORLDLY?
Why are the Russian Orthodox attacking their Ukrainian brothers? Is that love? But if the Russian Orthodox and the Ukrianians are blessing each other troops telling them God is with them, praying on both sides, are they guilty of encouraging this?
If you had children fighting and their uncles are telling them punch his lights out! You're tough enough! Girl go get that frying pan! Would you not be mad at the uncles and see them as PART of the problem? Shouldn't the uncles be telling them to find a peaceful solution? Why, would you not expect the uncles to STOP The FIGHTING? Would you not put them out of your house and view them as GOOD FOR NOTHING! "I let you TEACH and SUPERVISE my kids and you let them use skillets on each other?" If anyone should be shouting "DONT FIGHT! DON'T FIGHT!" It should be Church leaders.
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow called the Russian/Ukrainian war fratricide! But as a Christian leader, he could order everyone to go home and refuse to fight their brothers. If they continue to fight that person obviously is not Christian. But Kirill cares more about his relationship with Putin that the lives of the Ukrainians.
These religions don't want to lose the status they get in their homelands. People might view them as traitors.
You might say that the Church doesn't have that much power. I disagree. IF THESE PEOPLE IN THEIR CHURCHES ARE REAL CHRISTIANS they would listen and not fight. If NOT, then WHY haven't the Churches been able to produce REAL CHRISTIANS? Why can't they produce real Christians? By their fruits you will recognize them. (That local congregation is racist. Something is wrong. Why doesn't the church leaders do something about it?)
Its the same problem with homosexuality and fornication. A LACK OF STANDARDS and committment to Biblical teaching. They want their ears tickled.
God is FOR our nation. He will protect you. The other priests are praying and saying the same thing on the other side. GOD IS WITH YOU!
This is why they are called wolves in sheep clothing.
2 Timothy 3:5 says: "[They] hold to a form of outward godliness (religion), although they have denied its power for their conduct nullifies their claim of faith. Avoid such people and keep far away from them."
Religions leaders have a form of godly devotion. But they will not put it into full force. They want people's favor more than anything. They tickle people's ears.
What would those in power do if the religious leaders tell their soldiers to go home? These religious leaders hold their position by gaining favor of those in power. IF the religious leaders wants their protection they will be silent and play their role. Otherwise they may be REMOVED and a more favorable religious person found.
I love watching your videos and I'm so grateful you are exploring the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without malice. Your videos always cause me to want to comment because there's always more to the discussion, but I have held back until now. I just wanted to add my testimony that there truly is a difference in this Church, especially with the Priesthood. The way that I have experienced the Holy Ghost and miracles in my life are vastly different- more potent, more tangible- than before. I grew up Christian in the Assemblies of God and experienced many various denominations before ultimately converting. I love my Christian and Catholic friends and neighbors. There is so much good in those churches and I believe they are going to Heaven, but there is something very different about the LDS church and it's restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
This testimony is so beautiful, thank you for sharing❤ Amen 100%
I think you did a great job with this reaction video. I enjoyed watching it and am learning a lot. Thank you again for your open dialogue and noncritical approach, with all the contention in the world I enjoy watching your content because it is respectful despite disagreement and I believe that is how we should be living our lives as true Christians.
Thank you so much for putting these videos together! I am LDS and served 2 years in Germany on my mission. I have many wonderful non-LDS friends who truly shine with the love of the Savior in their lives and our love of the Savior is a binding tie that makes for strong friendships that I cherish.
Hello Pastor Jeff! So good to hear from you again. You are helping me understand the teachings of the evangelical churches as you learn about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints! There are wonderful things to learn from both teachings and it makes me so grateful for your videos!
I like these videos because they explain the similarities and differences and there is an “oh, I see how they could get there” on both sides.
I very much enjoy your videos and have come to understand why Christian churches are distinct from the Church of Jesus Christ LDS. I think your videos will go a long way too remove the animosity that exists between our faiths. Thanks for what you're doing
Hey bro 😏 cabes my babes😅 yes, this is who you think it is
@@zionmama150 not exactly sure. Could be one of four people... might need to text me
@@coxrocks25 text incoming
Love your videos, wondering if you could do video reviews on each book within the Book of Mormon?
A review on the other standard works would be great too!
Hey Jeff, this was a great video! Something I wanted to add, that was not mentioned here, is that there are two scriptures that for Latter Day Saints, are very clear In regards to this apostasy and eventual need for restoration. These scriptures are plain enough in English, but the Spanish versions of both are unmistakably clear in their language. I would be Interested to know your thoughts on them.
Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
In Spanish this would read “Until the time of restoration of all things”
And then we have 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
In Spanish, this is again even more clear. It reads “For that time shall not come, until there first comes an apostasy”
My translation may not be perfect, but it does capture the essence of how plain these events were made to early Christian saints. Hope you find that Information Interesting!
Who was the man of sin? Has he already been revealed, the son of perdition?
There will have to be a falling away, not a complete extinction of the church, before the second coming of Jesus. The first verse you shared was also referencing the second coming of Jesus, and the prophecies from the scriptures about that. All who will not hear that Prophet, will be cut off among the people. Has that happened yet? But you say the times of restitution of all things have happened already through Joseph Smith?
The church didn’t go extinct per say, but only parts of it lived on in the form of the Catholic Church. You are correct that verse 20 is in reference to His second coming, but then in verse 21 we see that the heavens did receive Christ until the time of restitution (restoration) of all things. This being in reference to Joseph Smiths first vision.
These scriptures point out plainly that an apostasy was to come after Christ left. An apostasy great enough that it would require a restoration. We today need only ask ourselves whether or not we are still living in that apostasy, or if Christ did come and restore his church as he promised.
There are additional scriptures In Isaiah and the Old Testament that also reference the restoration, but they are more cryptic than these, so if it’s hard to understand these, than it will be even harder to understand the others.
@@DeliverQuality ἀποκατάστασις, -εως, ἡ, (ἀποκαθίστημι, which see), restoration: τῶν πάντων, the restoration not only of the true theocracy but also of that more perfect state of (even physical) things which existed before the fall, Acts 3:21; cf. Meyer at the passage. (Often in Polybius, Diodorus, Plutarch, others.)
[ἀποκατιστάνω, see ἀποκαθίστημι.]
I wrote a long comment but it didn’t get posted. Have you looked at the Greek word for restitution/restoration? There is only one place in the Bible that it’s used and it’s in that verse.
@@DeliverQuality have you used the blue letter Bible app before? The Greek word for restitution/restoration is Strong’s G605. It means restoration of a true theocracy, restoration of the perfect state before the fall.
What do you think about that part where Paul mentioned the man of sin being revealed the son of perdition? What do you think that means?
Thanks for sharing your perspective on the Great Apostasy! I always look forward to your videos and your perspective. Thanks Jeff!
I'm an ex-mormon with no ill will towards the church, and I love your very understanding and open approach while still explaining and backing up what you believe and why. Would love for additional explanations of your basis of belief based on the Greek versions of specific verses and how they influence your understanding of the English translations, versus how they are explained in Mormonism. I understand that would take significant time and research, but it would be a worthy endeavor once you have more of a foundational understanding of core LDS doctrines.
Read Jesus the Christ including notes at the of each Chapter might answer the questions you have. Also Talmage works titled Articles of Faith and The Great Apostasy. Great works with substantial research and references.
All 3 books I cited are written by James E Talmage. Should answer your questions.
@@joelrecordcrockett9294 Oh I've read all of those on my mission; I don't have questions, I'm merely interested to hear Jeff's take on them.
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I appreciate the effort you dedicate on helping people see both perspectives. And by the way, you do a good job staying non bias.
Now, as I read on the comment section, I still find myself impressed with how difficult it is for a lot of us (people that profess being followers of Christ) to still find a place where our conversations begin with charity, love, and comprehension...
I think you do a great job explaining things. I would like to point out that we don’t believe that Christ only manifests himself through the fruits of the restored church, but also through all people who seek to do good. We believe that all denominations have aspects of truth, but do not have the whole truth, truth that only prophets would be able to bring back after a falling away
Hello Pastor Jeff, again I love the videos and have learned much about mainstream Christianity. One common misconception I think other Christians outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS and also in the LDS church, is that we believe in grace wholeheartedly. Just as any Christian. We do not believe works will save us as only Christ can save. Regardless of what I do or dont do on earth. I dont have power to save myself or others. That is only by Christ and his atonement. We do believe in try. As I think anyone doing good is already doing. Being a good person and helping others as Christ taught. He gave two great commandments which entale much. We can’t love god or our neighbors w out works. We must serve and help and teach and lead and work a great deal to help build gods great kingdom. It is all only made possible by a loving Heavenly Father who gave his only begotten son. However we can put in the work w effort just as God helped bless Moses when he gave him the Ten Commandments. God could have just given Moses the Ten Commandments but instead blessed Moses by teaching him to exert faith and works by commanding Moses to climb mt Sinai. I believe god did not just give Moses the 10 commandments In order to test him and have Moses apply work in a way Moses could grow. When we as ppl apply work. We have opportunities to grow. Spiritual, physical, intellectual. I believe God wants us to grow as one of the most important aspects of life given by Him. All the best my dear brother! Love to see you unify LDS’ w other Christians!!!!
I love these episodes. People of all faiths should learn to interact, learn, respect, and share similarities like this. Thank you for the example.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose Thank you for your concern for my well-being. I truly appreciate it. Despite my imperfections and constant need to repent and adjust, I feel like I am on the right path to forever with God.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose I follow the religion of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I am a member of the tribe of Ephraim, one of the sons of Joseph, who was the son of Jacob. I understand that Islam is also an Abrahamic religion, through his son Ishmael.
The 'Great Apostasy' makes it sound like it's the only apostasy, but we believe that there have actually been several. Like at the time of Noah.
Also, we believe that almost every church has some degree of truth. Do you believe the same? Do you believe God has inspired all religions?
We are all followers of Christ, no matter what denominations we belong. We have our own testimonies of the saviour and witnesses of his miracle. I think what matters most is that, when HE comes again, JESUS will make everything clear for us... I think that would be amazing to look forward to.
What you are saying here needs to be emphasized more. Too many people treat denominational religion like sports teams- that there is only 1 winner and all those who belong to that team go to Heaven. The truth is that it will be far more tolerable in the day of judgement for a willing soul who chose a false religion than a hypocrite of the true faith.
We’re all here watching this channel to learn and progress. people will worship by their own discernment. We’re all coming from different places and experiences.
@@jonathancarlson7659 I agree with you
@@jonathancarlson7659 like sports team you say? I think the Lord would not want his children to contend with one another because of religion. What I mean here is that WE ARE ALL FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST as long as we believe in him. As far as I understood it... those who believe in him will be saved. Who are we to judge who are those hypocrite and who are not. Anyway... we will face his judgment seat when he comes again. We are in any way in command of our own choices and agency. I'm sorry if I confused you.
Why do Latter-day Saints deny Christ and say he is a created being the brother of Satan?
Jesus Christ made it very clear that he was God in the flesh. That is why Christ was crucified. It was called blasphemy and punishable by death .
John 10:30; John 5:18
Even Heavenly Father said that Jesus Christ is God.
Hebrews 1:8
Thank you for having the divine wisdom to deep dive into this topic, I think it's an important one, for all Christianity. As a "struggling" lifelong member of the LDS faith, the Melchizedek priesthood is the one thing I cannot deny the truth of...having felt its presence and felt its power in use by people with the authority to use it. I have literally felt the loving arms of our Heavenly Father's Holy spirit wrap around me during a priesthood blessing and sooth my broken heart. I have received a priesthood blessing of healing when I was in the hospital close to dying and the next day being able to go home.
The authority to act in Christ's name by his grace, is one of the most sacred gifts he left with us mortals. It's literally a conduit to the power of God's love for us. This power can make miracles and we are vessels who can use that power if we are worthy and have the authority....this is why I stay for better or worse... whether or not I agree with the rest of it.
Satan is a master deceiver.
Only Jesus Christ has any right to the Melchizedek priesthood.
Only Jesus Christ is eternal and had no father or mother and is a priest forever.
(Christ did take on human flesh 2,000 years ago.)
Latter day Saints have mothers and fathers and they cannot be a priest forever since they will die.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
The sitting High Priest persecuted the Christians, which is evidence that the Judaic priestly offices was not carried over into Christianity.
Persecution of:
The Apostles: Acts 5:17-18 They were thrown in jail.
Paul: Acts 23-24 The high priest went all the way to Rome to bring charges against Paul and had someone slap Paul across the face.
Jesus Christ: Matthew 26:57-68 The high priest had Christ crucified because Christ claimed to be God. It was called blasphemy.
Jesus Christ was not ordained into the Aaronic priesthood since He was of the tribe of Judah. Heb. 7:14 Neither were the disciples or even the people in the BOM, since they were not from the tribe of Levi.
Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest and King forever!
@@youarecreatedforapurpose I know for sure that when I die I will be with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Please read your Bible.
Jesus Christ said, Follow me.
John 10
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
@@youarecreatedforapurpose
The whole purpose of your existence is to know God and enjoy him forever.
John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Phil. 3:9
And be found in Christ, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
I John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
******
Joseph Smith and every LDS prophet since him have preached a gospel of “do,” negating the gospel of “done” that Jesus preached and was. The LDS church is all about what it and its members must still do and be if they want to live with God (and be a god) one day.
The true church is all about proclaiming what Christ has DONE to make us right with God now for all eternity. It’s a certainty.
Jesus Christ canceled the record of debt that was held against us. All you need to do is accept Christ by faith. It isn't because of who you are and what you must and can do for God. It is because of who He is and what He did for you in sending Jesus to be the sacrificial offering for your sins. To be your substitute on the cross and to satisfy the demands of God's law that stands against you.
Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile you to God. Christ has done the one act of righteousness that could bring justification and life to all men. All Christ is asking with open arms is for you to lay down your religiosity and works at the foot of the cross and allow Christ to take it.
Salvation is quite simple.
Luke 18 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’
13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’
14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
God bless you.
@@jlewis8145 Our prophets teach as Christ taught. Christ did not say, just believe in me and do nothing. Christ taught to do works. Or do you deny the words of Christ?
@@joeshriver778 Works are the evidence of our salvation. James 2
In order to be justified before God, Christ requires perfection to get into heaven.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest and King!
Abraham and King David were justified by faith.
Romans 4
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
I have peace with God by faith.
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
It is crucial to note that, although we believe that no one on earth held these priesthood KEYS during the time of apostasy, the power and authority of God was still available. Before and after the Reformation, God blessed men and women, Protestants, Catholics, and non-christians by his priesthood power and authority as they prayed and lived according to the light and knowledge they received. Even before the priesthood was restored, Joseph Smith received the visitation of the Father and the Son and accessed God's priesthood power. He translated the entire Book of Mormon before the priesthood was even restored. I would say that as a member of Christ's Restored church, I do believe in a universal priesthood, aka, God's power on the Earth. But I also believe in priesthood keys, being delegated to man for Ecclesiastical reasons.
Heresy
Thank you so much for taking the time to explore our belief with such an open mind. It’s so relieving watching your content knowing our religion isn’t going to be met with nasty words and hurtful remarks. Thank you 🙏🏼
I appreciate you explaining the Protestant & general Christianity perspective. And thank you for coming to this topic of the apostasy with an open mind!
Just found this channel recently. Thanks for searching with the spirit of understanding rather than contention. I have liked looking through a bit of the catalog of videos.
I'm an LDS convert and I do believe that God works and inspires men and women outside of our Faith , because He works among the children of men according to their Faith .
I think that God no longer working through prophets/apostles is essentially what defines the great apostasy.
In Matthew 21:33-46 we can read a parable from Jesus talking about how God sent his servants and they all got murdered then God even sent his own son and he was no exception to the rule .
We believe the consequences of that wickedness from the people was the withdrawing of God's Kingdom and Authority among the Jews ,
a Kingdom to be restored and given to the gentiles through Joseph smith many years later.
God is the same yesterday today and forever , the way he has done his work isn't changing either , he has worked , he continues to work and will forever be working through prophets to guide his people .
Growing up as a catholic I've had many spiritual experiences with God , I didn't need to join the Church of Jesus Christ to start believing in Jesus as my savior and redeemer , but I do have to say that my understanding of Christ and his teaching have been increased a 100 fold ever since I joined the church .
Ironically my understanding of the Bible has been increased a 100 fold as well .
but here is the coolest part , had I not been raised a catholic I don't think I'd have joined the Church of Jesus Christ , I feel like every thing I've learned prior to joining the Church of JC was essential for my spiritual journey , it definitely made me a better man .
sincere desires to follow Christ can never be counted as a waist no matter the doctrinal divergences we may have ,
in sincerely pursuing Christ ,we always end up finding him , and that's what matters most in the end .
I really enjoyed your comments - thank you!
So you think that the LDS church apostles will never go into apostasy? They are mere men just as the original twelve that Jesus Himself hand-picked.
The seed has been planted. I am thankful that you have a Catholic foundation.
Peace!
@@windywithachanceofsunshine5219 Not sure what you mean by a Catholic foundation? The original Church of Christ and the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never had a Pope or Cardinals, but rather the same organization with apostles and prophets. And yes, they are mere mortal men who are not perfect, but chosen to serve by revelation. The Bible talks about the final restoration in the latter days, so no, I don't believe there will be another apostasy. The reason for the great apostasy was not that the apostles went astray; in fact they were valiant until the end of their lives. They were hunted and eventually all killed the first century A.D. Without them and the end of revelation in the Church, that's when the apostasy began, and corruption led to changing of doctrine and loss of priesthood authority. We still believe much good is accomplished by many churches who still have many common truths, but we invite people to discover the truths that were lost and what has been revealed and will yet be revealed in the restored Church of Jesus Christ.
@@Kimmer Jesus instituted his church and established the priesthood before he left earth. Peter was the bishop of Rome - actually the pope. He had the power to lay hands and anoint successive bishops and priests. By this tradition, the church stood firm regardless of any apostasy that went around. Even when all the original apostles died, the next bishop of Rome and the priests continued to uphold the church.
Remember that there was apostasy even during the time Jesus taught. So the great "Apostasy" was nothing new. And if you study the bible, you should know that the final restoration of latter days is...No one knows for sure because Jesus himself told us that we will not know the time or place.LDS are trying to put a time and place on something that Jesus warned us NOT to do. Joseph Smith tried to play God. He failed miserably.
Catholic foundation is the catholic, meaning universal church that Jesus himself established, still going strong after 2000 years today! If you have that in your heart, you are all the better.
Most importantly, No one can improve the original gospel of Jesus. Those, like Joseph Smith, who try to "restore" Jesus' gospel are frauds because only God can restore his church. No one can destroy God's foundation. It is rock solid!
Peace be with you!
@@Kimmer you're very welcome :)
I like that he clarifies that the Apostasy does not mean that God failed. I would say that it indicates that humanity failed God
Appreciate your willingness to learn about another faith and interact with a respectful manner, seems to be something lost in todays Christian world.
Impressive way of listening and commenting - without drama.
This is what we need as Christian’s, come together as the body of Christ. Thank you pastor Jeff. I’m
A convert and I believe none of us will be disappointed as we love Christ. You building bridges for the whole body is exactly what the lord wants. I can see the world coming down on Christian’s and need this. Thank you.
it would be worthy to note that many of the great reformers such as Wesley taught their followers to watch and expect a restoration of the gospel.
Pastor Jeff, I just want to say how nice it is to hear that we both believe in the same Lord, the same God and are both brothers in Christ.
Thank you for your ministry!
I have waited for this video for a long time. I enjoy your videos thoroughly Pastor Jeff, I love your perspective when it comes to the LDS church. You aren't confrontational but prefer to engage in dialogue. I love how you travel to sacred LDS sites and talk about our experience. I am Roman Catholic and completely reject the Great Apostasy for the same reasons stated that there is an unbroken line of priesthood succession. Catholic and LDS comparisons are intriguing since both churches claim to be The One True Church, and both claim Apostolic succession. There is so much going on there I think a comparison of the two would make an excellent topic. The LDS church is a whole rabbit hole, though I have studied it, I ultimately reject it but find it interesting like you Pastor Jeff.
Your Catholic Friend.
I too, am Catholic. Interesting but sad for LDS. How do we respect false teachings?
Once again Jeff, you have strengthened my testimony of the need for a Restoration. Thank you!
Funny how sometimes the more you learn about others' beliefs the more our own make sense.
@@colemanjohnson7056 too right!
Hello Jeff! Que up at the 9:50 mark and you say that there are no acts we can do to "insure" our salvation. Surely, we agree that works do not or cannot earn or in any way pay for our salvation. Christ Jesus is the only One who could do that, and we must go through Him. But oh, so many scriptures (the words of Jesus Himself) indicate many things we must do to qualify for what Jesus did for us. Let's start with forgiving others for their transgressions against us, for God will not forgive us if we do not forgive others. Forgiving is an act we must do (and a major challenge for many). What about Hebrews 5 that specifies that Jesus is the Author of salvation to those who OBEY Him? Many, many others.
If I were to identify the core difference of how and why we understand differently, to lay the axe at the root of the problem instead of hacking away at the leaves so to speak, I would point to the necessity of the works that Jesus gave us to do as the means to open our understanding. Job declared that to depart from evil is understanding. David emphasizes that he understood more than the ancients because he KEPT the precepts of God. Jesus Himself pointed out that we know doctrine by doing the will of His Father. The common denominator of these examples is what brings us closer to the Spirit of God, because (per 1 Corinthians) the things of God are only understood by the Spirit of God and the things of man are understood by the spirit of man. Satan's purpose is to deceive, to hide truth. What better strategy is there to do so than to convince well-meaning believers that we cannot depart from evil, or it is not necessary to do so for salvation, when the Bible teaches us that to depart from evil is understanding. We do not fully understand what salvation is (and so many other gospel topics) until we do the works that Jesus gave us. By this barrier, we are subject to understand by the spirit of man, and are as the princes of the world who are hidden from God's wisdom. I hope you will always remember this whenever you or other evangelicals teach that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a works-based belief in salvation. Works DO NOT save us. They do open our understanding of what salvation really is.
Darell
Beautifully said! I’ve always liked the saying “we don’t earn our way to heaven, we LEARN our way to heaven.”
What are your thoughts about Paul's prophecy that before Christ comes again there must first be a falling away? 2 Thes. 2:2-9
The respect I was taught as an LDS child, teen, and young adult of Martin Luther was what propelled me to understand that there really was no “Great Apostasy”, but instead a redirection. I could say so much more on practices that I can no longer abide by, but I will be respectful. Let’s just say, I have been happily ELCA Lutheran since 2009. Jesus’ gospel never left the earth.
12:45-15:14 That is true. As was pointed out earlier in the video, just because the Authority was taken away didn't mean that God left the Earth to itself nor that the world fell into utter darkness. I have a handful of people who some to mind who I [Know] are wonderful, faithful, and loving friends and children of God; I know that through Christianity across the whole world, light and life is being brought to the troubled, the downtrodden, and the weary & fainting. With this, I also know that proper Authority of the Priesthood is essential for the saving ordinances, and I Know that His Authority and Church have been restored directly and in fulness to the Earth once more. It is my humble prayer that I will live to see all people have the chance to receive Christ's Gospel & feel His light, and that I may take part in that work to share. Thank you.
A video that I recommend watching (somewhat of an older one, not that old really) is this, "The Great Apostasy (made 1999)" Here's the link. ua-cam.com/video/GRv88FqzAjk/v-deo.html
Thanks lots for another interesting and insightful video. I am excited for what's ahead in these coming months. Again, thanks lots.
Christ is our living Prophet, Priest and King forever! ♥️. Hebrews 7
One of my favorite books is by Tad R. Callister called The Inevitable Apostasy and the Promised Restoration.
I question the protestant position on a universal priesthood for these reasons:
1) Most protestant churches are pastor dependent. I baptized my nephew in our church because I'm an ordained elder and could do that, while my sister's bishop presided over the service. My two brothers were the witnesses because one was a priest, the other one also an elder. This inspired my Evangelical nieces to get baptized in their church with their other cousins, so five were baptized at the same time, along with two hundred other people. Only four pastors performed all those baptisms. If the Protestants have this universal priesthood, why were there only four ordained pastors performing all the baptisms?
"9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" (2 Peter 2:9)
This scripture is interesting because how it is explained from a protestant perspective is how it actually plays out in the LDS church. Once a man is baptized with few exceptions, they are ordained to the priesthood within a short time. As an elders Quorum president I know we were to invite all men who were baptized and even thinking of baptism to come join us in our priesthood meetings as "perspective elders", so even the new members are treated as part of the priesthood in that way. They still have to have hands laud on them by those in authority as Paul instructed Timothy, and Paul was himself before preaching as an apostle.
2) Modt often the universal priesthood as explained by protestants is used to justify a man breaking from one church to start another. All churches in Acts and the New Testamentera were divided based on geographical locations..
I could go more into this, but that will be enough for now.
I love watching your videos, you have a great spirit and an open mindset to everything
I think you hit the nail right on the head for why so many of us have such strong convictions of why our LDS church is true. We see the fruits!!! Our history is filled with profound miracles and witnesses of the gospel and Gods love for the saints. So when tricky topics come up (such as polygamy) we hold to the many many miracles that witness to us that God is with us and continues to guide us. My own dad experienced a complete change of heart after reading the book of mormon that drew him so very close to Christ. He was on a very rough path and it changed him completely. He was truly enlightened and went about doing so much good for others. He became the biggest believer and testifier of the BOM as a witness of Christ. Hundreds came to his funeral in my youth and shared that with me. I've had my own non-LDS friends ask me how I can base my belief in the BOM just off a "good feeling" - as the invitation may appear to be. But it is so much more than that. Truly, the fruits of this gospel are evident in the lives of the people and our history. I found it very interesting when you said the same of your church. It delighted my heart to know that God is performing miracles and evidence of His spirit with all His children in all churches. I see the amazing fruits of my many friends of other faiths as well. They are good fruits indeed. I see our church doing so much good in this world - serving and loving others. It makes me wonder - perhaps we are all planted directly in the part of His vineyard where he needs us most, in the faith where we can do the most good. Perhaps we are all tasked with sharing God's grace and atonement in the avenue we have been given. Perhaps we could all work to understand and collaborate more together to share His gospel and glorious message. If anything - you have opened my eyes and heart to this. As the world continues to grow darker, I believe it will be the collective effort of all believers of Christ who will help prepare the world for His coming. Thank you for your work in unifying us! I truly believe it will yield so much good fruit!
Jeff -- Again, thank you for the thoughtful, kind, manner in which you discuss these things. I found your discussion of the great apostasy, or lack thereof, interesting on a number of levels. First, I don't think a single member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be surprised to learn that Protestant's do not believe that there was a great apostasy. They believe that the 'church', as represented by the Catholic Church, had gone astray, but not so seriously as to require a restoration -- just a reformation. Nor, would any of us be shocked to learn the Catholic Church does not believe in a great apostasy. They don't even acknowledge the need for a reformation. Of course, a belief that a great apostasy did not take place does not mean that it did not.
I also found your discussion of how many of the epistles found in the New Testament document the apostles' attempts to correct the false doctrines and practices that had crept into the various branches of the larger Church. You cited one example. What I found odd was your assumption that, once the apostles were gone (and no more letters were written), there was no longer a need within the Church for their corrective care of the flock. Did the Great Adversary's work against the Church cease with the death of the apostles? I cannot see evidence that the Father of Lies ceased spreading false doctrine once the last original apostle died. So, if the Church was subject to such great corruption while under the watchful care of the apostles, why are we to believe it would not be further corrupted after they departed?
How corrupt had branches of the Church become? You pointed out one example with your citation of Galatians. Allow me to point to one more: Paul had preached the Gospel to the Corinthians. While he was still alive, they had ceased to believe in the resurrection. This was not a small doctrinal dispute. It's fairly foundational to Christianity -- whether Christ, and we through Him, will be resurrected. In chapter 15 of Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians, he recounts that he had taught them that Christ had been resurrected and had been seen by many, including Paul. He then cites the Church's practice of baptism for the dead as an additional evidence of our future resurrection, asking: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? [verse 29]"
I mention this second example of the serious doctrinal errors that had crept into the ancient Church for two reasons. First, it reinforces my question, above. If such errors had crept into the Church under the apostles watchful care, why should we believe seriously grave errors did not infect the Church after the apostles were gone? Second, Paul's brief mention of the practice of baptism for the dead is textual evidence that some of the doctrines and practices of the ancient Church were NOT transmitted down to mainline Christianity. Do the Protestant and Catholic churches practice baptism for the dead? The fact that they do not seems to argue that there was an apostasy.
@@davidjanbaz7728 sure
@@davidjanbaz7728 David -- Thank you for responding. Of course, you're correct. Our belief in a great apostasy does not mean one happened. However, as our host, Jeff, mentioned in the video, the New Testament is replete with warnings about and prophecies of an apostasy that would take place before Christ returned again. To take just one example, see 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2, verses 2 - 3. Here, Paul tells them that the Second Coming was not nigh. He warns, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ...." We believe that 'falling away' was the apostasy we've been discussing. There are alternative readings of this scripture. My only point is that our belief in an apostasy is not without scriptural support.
As for your suggestion that in 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul was referring to some non-Christian practice of baptism for the dead, that reading isn't tenable. Read verse 29 in context of the rest of the chapter. Paul teaches, first, that Christ was resurrected. He then goes on to teach that we, too, shall be resurrected. It is in that context, that we ordinary humans shall be resurected, that Paul mentions baptism for the dead. He doesn't do it to condemn the practice. Nor, is he instructing them on the importance of the practice. He was simply pointing to a practice that was, evidently, common in the early church as support for his teaching that we would be resurrected. (Else, why are we baptized for the dead, if the dead will not be resurrected?) Given this context, how would referring to a non-Christian practice support Paul's teaching about the resurrection of humankind?
Having said that, I have had Christian ministers offer an alternative reading of this passage. Some have admitted that baptism for the dead appears to have been a practice in the early church but that the practice was dropped for one reason or another. (Just as some admit that the early church practiced baptism by immersion and didn't baptize infants, but those practices were later changed.) Others have suggested that this part of Paul's letter may have been garbled over the years. While still others address the question head-on, and, through Olympic-level interpretive gymnastics read the verse to have a meaning quite apart from the natural meaning of the text. So far, you're the first I've seen suggest that Paul was referring with favor to a non-Christian practice of baptism for the dead.
Why isn’t baptism for the dead in the Book of Mormon? Is it the most true book?
@@BGCflyer The Book of Mormon is not a 'how to run a church' manual. Like the Bible, it is a history of God's dealings with a particular people. For the most part, if the Book of Mormon mentions an ordinance, such as baptism, it does so in the narrative of the story. For example, it might say something like (paraphrasing), "Many believed in his word and were baptized." It doesn't provide the reader an instruction on how to perform the ordinances mentioned.
I used 'for the most part' above for a reason. At the very end of the Book of Mormon, Moroni does say how some ordinances were performed. He doesn't discuss all the ordinances. So, there is no reason to believe that he would or should have mentioned Baptism for the Dead.
As an ex-Mormon I love your videos, I would greatly enjoy a video explaining the origins of priesthood and the Protestant view on it!
Would you ever consider reading your scriptures from the King James Version vs the NIV?
I've often thought the same thing.
I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of leader day Saint and we do use the king James version and I have noticed in some of your videos the scriptions don't quite match up with same words, we would read the meaning differently.
Might be worth reading from the king James and your NIV If comparing some beliefs
@hello saints Jeff, continue your good work and ignore the negative comments by both LDS and non LDS followers alike. I appreciate your thoughts even when I disagree with your interpretations. Love your channel, keep it up!
Jeff! The Church of Jesus Christ is TRUE! 🙏🏻 Ask and ye shall receive an answer! IT’S TRUE!! It’s ALL TRUE!! Can’t wait for you to join us! 🙌🏻
Hey Jeff! I love this video, although it prompted a question that I was hoping you could clarify:
You can answer this from your own personal perspective or that of protestants in general, but given your belief that the Bible is totally complete, do you believe it’s possible in general for new revelation/scripture/prophets to come in our day or in the future? Even taking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints out of the picture, do you believe that it’s possible that God could call prophets and therefore create additional scripture like he did in the Bible days? Or that there may be scripture based on events in the past that are not currently in circulation in main stream Christianity? Or is that no longer possible?
…Hi, I’d like to hear what pastor Jeff has to say too but it seems like he does’t make many comments or responses to questions. My thoughts on your question: The prophets of the Old Testament were calling people to repentance and foretold the coming of the messiah. Now that Jesus (the Messiah) has come, we don’t need prophets in the same way as we did in the Old Testament times. That doesn’t mean no man or women couldn’t receive personal revelation or prophecy something, but we don’t need them to lead the church. Jesus Christ is our prophet, priest and King! Hebrews 1:1-2 is the most clear explanation that in old days we had the prophets, but in these last days, we have the Son. We have the writings of Jesus and the apostles, and that is sufficient. The Gospel is simple. God saved us through Jesus (justification) now we live a life worthy of the the Lord as instruments in His hands, keeping the commandments, confessing our sins and repent on a daily basis, attending church services, receiving communion of bread and wine. This is sanctification. We don’t need anything more that what Jesus taught us, so there isn’t a need for new revelation about the Gospel. We can be lead by the Holy Spirit, but the values we have from the 10 commandments AND what Jesus taught are enough for us to live a Christian life. Can there be additional scriptures? I would say no. Why? Scripture is only considered scripture if we have evidence of it being written during the time of Jesus. There are thousands of manuscripts for the New Testament, but there are no manuscripts for the Book of Mormon, that’s probably why the rest of the Christian world doesn’t look at the Book of Mormon as authentic scripture.
Something interesting that I caught from the video was that the Protestant belief is that there isn't anything missing from the Bible and that it's perfect to represent the Gospel of Jesus Christ as a whole. It's really hard to appreciate the restoration of the Gospel without seeing a need for it. If something's not broke why fix it? My question for you is how certain are you of that belief? I challenge you to pray and ask God for certainty that there is nothing missing from the Bible. That there is nothing missing from his gospel. Yes that's a Protestant belief but do you know that with every part of your being that there is nothing missing from the Bible? Do you have your own personal witness that there is nothing missing from the Bible? I challenge you to pray and ask God if there is anything missing. Of course if there's nothing missing he will reaffirm to you that there is nothing missing you will have no doubt in your mind that you are in the right religion and right place where you need to be. But on the slight chance that there is something missing and you're willing to do something about it He will make it known unto you. Isn't that an interesting thought?
You are serving as such a wonderful example of how to engage with new ideas and information in a thoughtful and careful manner, even if you may not agree. I think we can all learn a thing or two from you, thank you for your content
Appreciate The Open Minded Process- I Believe Only A Very Small Window Has Been Exchanged, Especially On The Beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Perhaps A Video With Robert L. Millet (former dean of Religious Education at Brigham Young University, is a professor emeritus of ancient scripture) Would Dig Much Deeper With The Teaching of The Great Apostasy.
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the LDS perspective on the Great Apostasy:
1. Loss of Apostolic Authority:
The LDS Church teaches that after the deaths of Jesus Christ and His apostles, the priesthood authority-the power to act in God’s name-was taken from the Earth.
With the martyrdom of the apostles and no mechanism for appointing successors (due to the loss of the priesthood keys), the fullness of the gospel began to fade from the earth.
2. Mixture of Gospel Principles with Pagan Beliefs:
As Christianity spread, especially in the Roman Empire, its doctrines were often mixed with pagan beliefs, leading to a dilution or distortion of original Christian teachings.
Philosophical debates about the nature of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit led to the adoption of creeds, which, from the LDS perspective, further distanced Christianity from its original truths.
3. Changes in Ordinances and Church Organization:
Over time, the original structure of the Church, as well as the ordinances (sacred rites and ceremonies) were changed or lost.
For instance, the LDS Church teaches that the original mode and purpose of baptism, among other ordinances, were changed.
4. Loss of Revelation:
The LDS perspective is that God guides His church through continuous revelation. With the apostasy, this direct line of communication was broken.
Instead of prophets receiving revelations, decisions began to be made based on councils, debates, and human reasoning.
5. Persecution and Martyrdom:
Early Christians faced intense persecution, which further exacerbated the loss of original teachings and leadership.
The persecution led to many Christians going into hiding, which may have led to a further fragmentation of teachings and practices.
6. Establishment of State Religion:
The Edict of Milan in 313 AD by Constantine allowed for religious tolerance, and later Christianity would become the state religion of the Roman Empire.
The LDS view suggests that this melding of political and religious power further changed the nature of Christian worship and doctrine.
Outcome:
The result of these and other factors was a departure from the original Church that Jesus Christ had established, leading to a time without divine authority or new revelation, known as the Great Apostasy.
Restoration (LDS Perspective):
The LDS Church teaches that to restore the fullness of the gospel, God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820, initiating the restoration of the fullness of the gospel, including the return of priesthood authority, new revelations, and the re-establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ on the earth.
In essence, from the LDS viewpoint, the apostasy was a drifting away from the truths originally taught by Jesus and the early apostles. The restoration, through Joseph Smith, was a return to those truths and the re-establishment of Christ's original church.
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the LDS perspective on the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ:
1. Need for Divine Intervention:
The Great Apostasy resulted in the loss of the fullness of the gospel and priesthood authority from the Earth.
The true church of Jesus Christ would need both the fullness of the gospel and priesthood authority to be re-established.
A divine intervention, or Restoration, was essential to bring back the true church.
2. Joseph Smith's Seeking for Truth:
In the early 19th century, many religious sects claimed to be the true church.
Joseph Smith, seeking clarity, prayed to know which church was true.
Joseph was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ, who informed him of the forthcoming Restoration.
3. Restoration of the Book of Mormon:
Ancient prophets in the Americas wrote of Christ's teachings, creating a record parallel to the Bible.
These teachings, lost to the world, were vital for the Restoration.
Joseph Smith was chosen to translate this record, producing the Book of Mormon.
4. Restoration of Priesthood Authority:
The original priesthood authority was lost during the Apostasy.
To perform ordinances and lead the true church, this authority was essential.
Heavenly messengers restored the priesthood authority to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery.
5. Restoration of Doctrines and Ordinances:
The Apostasy led to alterations or loss of Christ's original doctrines and ordinances.
Authentic worship requires the fullness of these doctrines and ordinances.
Through revelation to Joseph Smith, original doctrines and ordinances were restored.
6. Establishment of Continuous Revelation:
The true church of Jesus Christ is guided by continuous revelation.
Prophets, as instruments of revelation, were absent during the Apostasy.
With the Restoration, the line of prophets was re-established, beginning with Joseph Smith, ensuring ongoing divine guidance.
Outcome:
The Restoration is seen as God's answer to the period of Apostasy, bringing back the original structure, teachings, and authority of Jesus Christ's church to the Earth. This Restoration, as believed by members of the LDS Church, came through the prophetic role and experiences of Joseph Smith.
Here is a scripture chain from the Bible that suggests the concept of an apostasy followed by a subsequent restoration:
Apostasy:
Acts 20:29-30:
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them."
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3:
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first..."
1 Timothy 4:1:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."
2 Timothy 4:3-4:
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
Restoration:
Acts 3:19-21:
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
Amos 9:11:
"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old."
Ephesians 1:10:
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him."
Isaiah 29:13-14:
"Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me...Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder..."
This scripture chain begins with verses suggesting that there will be an apostasy or falling away from the truth. The latter scriptures then point to a time when God would act to restore or bring back that truth.
Here's a brief scripture chain from the Book of Mormon on apostasy and restoration:
Apostasy:
1 Nephi 13:26-29:
In these verses, Nephi sees a vision of the future in which plain and precious parts of the gospel are taken away or obscured, leading to the apostasy of many.
"And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church...Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God."
Mormon 1:13-14:
Mormon laments the state of the Nephite society, highlighting their apostate condition and their disregard for what's holy.
"But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people."
Restoration:
1 Nephi 13:34-41:
In a continuation of his vision, Nephi sees the coming forth of other scriptures (including the Book of Mormon) to restore the plain and precious truths that were lost or obscured.
"And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord...And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records...shall establish the truth of the first...and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved."
2 Nephi 3:11-15:
Lehi speaks of a prophecy from Joseph of old, which highlights the role of a future seer (interpreted by Latter-day Saints to mean Joseph Smith) in the restoration process.
"But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins...and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them."
3 Nephi 21:1-7:
Jesus Christ, while visiting the Nephites, speaks of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in the latter days as a sign that the gathering and restoration of Israel is commencing.
"And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place-that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion."
These are just a few of the many passages in the Book of Mormon that discuss, either directly or indirectly, the themes of apostasy and restoration. The Book of Mormon is seen by Latter-day Saints as both a prophecy of the restoration and a tool in its fulfillment. 🐦
Listening/watching to the BYU Speech called "His Grace is Sufficient" by Brad Wilcox is super helpful in understanding the view of grace within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I think latter-day saints oversimplify the protestant view of faith and "no works," while non-latter-day-saints often oversimplify the "works" side of our faith. At least on my mission, many of the people I talked to didn't understand what we meant by works (they thought of it more as good deeds)
Anyway, watching His Grace is Sufficient might help show we are more similar in our understanding of grace than most people think.
This creator became very familiar with Brad Wilcox when his racist rants went viral on tiktok earlier this year… I’m sure he’ll never take Brad seriously now, if ever…
I listened to Brad Wilcox’s video about three years ago and at first it did indeed sound somewhat evangelical to me. I was interested so I listened again and read the transcript. Then, this part, especially, stood out to me:
_“Oh, no,” I said, “you have plenty to do, but it is not to pay that debt. We will all be resurrected. We will all go back to God’s presence to be judged. What is left to be determined by our obedience is how comfortable we plan to be in God’s presence and what degree of glory we plan on receiving.”_
It’s easy to miss it but this is a huge departure from evangelicalism and our view of grace. According to this, the debt Christ paid was only to give us physical resurrection and bring us to judgment; whether we live in the presence of the Heavenly Father is based upon works after that. Granted, grace is supposed to be there to help us in that respect, but it still falls on us and our efforts in the end. Wilcox says the final outcome “is left to be determined by our obedience” and calls it reaching a goal.
Here’s the evangelical view: Christ paid it all. There are only two eternal options: eternal death and eternal life. Eternal life is life and fellowship with God. And yet, we cannot enter into His presence unless we are “perfect, even as he is perfect.” Wilcox even said, “Scriptures make it clear that no unclean thing can dwell with God.” And even though he also said, “Because Jesus took that punishment, He can offer us the chance for ultimate perfection,” there is no way we will ever be perfect enough in this life. But Christ was. On the cross, all our sins were laid upon him. When we believe in him by accepting his free offer of eternal life through faith, the Great Exchange is complete-just as our sins were imputed to him, resulting in his death, when we believe, his perfect righteousness is imputed to us, giving us eternal life now-eternal life that will ultimately be consummated in heaven where we are finally saved from the presence of sin. That is how we view grace.
@@BellDavidE…well said!
…Brad Wilcox tries to sound like a Christian, but in reality, he is not. I do appreciate his comments on not earning our salvation, but yet, I’m sure he would say you have certain ordinances that are required for heaven, for the celestial kingdom?, for eternal progression as a family in the celestial kingdom? You can’t claim that we are saved by Grace and then say we have certain saving ordinances that must be done for our salvation. That’s an oxymoron.
Who ordained you?
"Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you and ordained you."
The rock of Peter was not not Peter but the revelation of who Christ was when he asked them "Who do men say that I am?" and flesh and blood did not reveal it to Peter.
2:12 and...The Pre Existence.
7:40. Hold on there good brother in Christ - Pastor Jeff ! Then Is it really "Sola Scriptura" or is it the non-biblical Creeds? It seems to us LDS'ers that you cannot have both!
Citation:: Sola Scriptura: "..that posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice." - ref Wikipedia
11:17. Our good Christian brothers believe that the "rock" mentioned in Matthew 16: 18 was Peter but the Latter-day Saints understand this more broadly. The "rock" was in fact the rock of The Principle of Revelation (Matthew 16: 17,18) that Jesus was teaching about in that very moment.
13:18. I love what you had to say Pastor Jeff, about the work of Jesus among His believers! Revivals and Great Awakenings? (We were one of them of the many that added up to The Restoration! I have heard General Conference talks teaching that the reformations you speak of were part of what we call "The Restoration.") I love what you had to say about The fruits of Jesus' followers! Yes, signs follow them that believe! The gifts of the Spirit! including miracles, healing and tongues! The Joy of the Saints is a real! We experience it!
Our history is RICH with solid veins of treasure in these regards (granted stronger at some times than others) and they continue today! (For example: April 1835 Kirtland Temple was a pentecostal outpouring! An Acts 2 experience for The Church!)
* * * *
Pastor Jeff, if our protestant brothers and sisters believe we of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are in error about The Great Apostasy, then what were the Apostles Peter and Paul referring to?
(2 Thes 2:3, 2 Tim 4:3-4, Acts 20: 29, 1 Cor 11: 18, Galat 1:6, 1 Tim 1:6, 2 Tim 1: 15)
And, if we are wrong about the New and Old Testament prophecies about The Restoration then what were the OT prophets Isaiah, Joel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Malachi and NT: JESUS, and apostles Peter, Paul, John referring to?
(Acts 3:21, Isaiah 2:2, 11: 11, Jer 31: 31, Joel 2: 28, Ezekiel 37: 26, Daniel 2: 44, Malachi 3:1, 4:6, Matt 17: 11, Roman's 11: 25, Eph 1: 10, Revelation 14: 6.)
Where are the creeds not a refection of the Bible verses? Which creed, be specific!
The new testament scriptures ending is something that I would like to study further.
I would really, really love to see a Catholic, Protestant, and LDS get together and discuss the great apostasy. You'd get the spectrum of perspectives.
Scott Hahn addresses this wonderfully.
How to reply to Evangelicals who question did Jesus fail?
1) Did Jesus fail when his disciples scattered?
2) Did God failed when Israel became apostate?
3) Did God fail when a 3rd of the angels took Satan's side?
4) Did God fail when man went with Satan?
Pastor Jeff, we also see the abundant good fruit of the gospel in our church as evidence of His hand and involvement in our lives. How would you explain all the goodness that comes from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? We see healings, miracles, and so many blessings from God on a daily basis. Hundreds of thousands of testimonies all the time. Even if you don’t believe our religion, do you believe we are in good graces with God?
Honestly, I always felt like anyone who is not a Catholic really believes in a form of the great apostasy… my parents used to tell me about Martin Luther. They kinda said “all of Christianity recognized the problems with the Catholic church, which is why all the Protestant sects started… but Joseph Smith was called to restore the church through vision”
Look up Anthony Sweat Restoration of the Priesthood. He has an entire series on this topic. He’s also a BYU professor so he does an excellent job explaining this topic from an LDS perspective,
Anthony Sweat’s “The Unfolding Restoration” series on UA-cam is an awesome resource for anyone seeking to learn about the restoration.
As always, a respectful and thorough video. We are all much more alike than we are different.
I’d love to here more about the balance of Protestant religions being different yet the same. I see the core belief in God is the same, but with so many variations of practice I’m confused. How can so many different practices all be considered correct. Even if the cores in Christ the expression can be quite distinct.
God is a God of order. As evidenced by scripture (Corinthians 14:33). Ephesians 4:3-6 talks a lot about oneness. One god one faith one body one spirit one baptism.
How do Protestants balance this seeming disorder of ideas. Or potential lack of oneness? Is a core belief in god the only oneness or order necessary?
I apologize if this sounds accusatory. I really do have a desire to understand, the balance of different expressions. Do all Protestants believe other Protestant go to heaven even with different expressions of faith?
What unites us as Protestants is that we all agree on primary doctrine (what is required for salvation) that is summarized in the apostles creed. We would also agree on the 5 Solas of the reformation. We may have different understandings of secondary doctrine (doctrine that doesn't equate salvation).
Protestants would all agree God created the the world, he made man in his image, when Adam ate of the fruit sin entered the world and thus all mankind is born and conceived in sin. We need a savior and salvation can only be found in true faith in Jesus Christ not by works so that no one can boast. Since God so loved the world he sent his son to be our savior. So we believe in the immaculate conception, the virgin birth and that in the incarnation Jesus became fully human while remaining fully God. We believe Jesus lived a perfect sinless life and was tempted in every way. When he died he paid our plenty for our sins. So that whoever believes is saved. We believe in the bodily resurrection and the accession. We believe in the Trinity that there is one God id 3 persons. The Holy Spirit was given to us at Pentecost. We believe that When we die if we trusted in God for our salvation and not on anything we do or have done then we are saved and we go to heaven and when the resurrection occurs we will have resurrected perfect bodies like Jesus' body after his resurrection. And we will spend eternity with Our savior in heaven. We are his bride and he is our bridegroom.
Secondary doctrines would be things like speaking in tongues, spiritual gifts, infant vs believer baptism. What exactly our worship services look like aka traditional v contemporary, can you drink responsibly v no drinking thing like that which don't affect our salvation.
It may also look to an outsider like we have all these different churches but a lot of dominations are super similar they may just come from different parts of the world like maybe one branch comes from England and another from the mainland of Europe and so forth. In our Christian schools you will find believers of all denominations because we agree on the key things.
@@mackenziekanis3096 thank you for the response I think that does help. We also believe in core doctrines and secondary doctrines. Core are things salvation centric ie Christ is our savior. Secondary doctrine could be the way we operate the church. Like how long meetings should be. In our church everything is the same everywhere. I could walk into any chapel in the world and expect the same teachings, practices, and behaviors across the board. This is what makes Protestantism so strange to me. The core is the same, but the idea that one given church could operate so distinctly from another seems odd.
Some things I can see as not as big a deal, but for example baptism is an extremely important part of our faith and we believe it should be conducted in a specific way. The idea that one church baptizes one way and another a different way seems like a really big deal. But thinking about I suppose baptism has a different meaning to Protestants than other religions. While still significant it’s not a saving ordinance or sacrament as believed in other churches. Thanks for your response
@@mackenziekanis3096 This is a really clean, succinct way to explain "differences" in denominations. Augustine once said "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity."
I love you great work you are doing for God. I love that you and Christians all over are helping others to come unto Christ, learn of Him, and accept Him into their hearts. You are doing so much good by posting these videos.
Re: History of apostacy - There are times when the children of God have moved away from at least some of the truths taught them requiring a new dispensation. I believe in general people believe there are seven dispensations. There would be no need for a dispensation (dispensing of truth) if there was not a movement away from truth.
Re: World corrupting church - As you pointed out there were false teachings which the apostles (primarily Paul) needed to correct as the church grew larger and larger. These false beliefs did not stop suddenly when Paul was killed. Because of the rapid growth of the church there were many erroneous beliefs which took hold in various churches. This became bad enough after a few hundred years that first council of Nicaea was called. Another few hundred years after that another council had to be called. The decisions made there were not made by apostles. The churches had already lost that heirarchy of authority hundreds of years earlier.
Re: Upon this rock - Well, I knew this would come up, even if you didn't at the time. We believe that though Simon was called Peter (petros vs petra), Christ is the Stone of Israel, He is The Rock. We believe that He said He would (future tense) build His church, not on Peter (a man); but on that which cometh from God (revelation): "17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:17-18). Also Acts 8:13-24 helps us to see that even those who believe and then are baptized do not attain the priesthood power. His heart was "not right in the sight of God" (vs 21) wanting to buy the priesthood. Here's what catches my attention: if the priesthood was not conferred upon people by those having authority (the apostles), then why would he try to buy it from them? Why would he not simply claim he was sufficiently changed to the degree that he would have the priesthood?
Re: Fruit - Amen. When we see good fruit we can know that it was good works that brought it about so that others can glorify God. I see Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and others performing good works and seeing fruit from their good works. And indeed what you and other Christians, and good people around the world, are seeing and experiencing are wonderful. Learning about and living the Gospel of Jesus Christ is like someone who has never tried ice cream before, they are given an ice cream cone and they love it. It's so delicious, especially on a hot day. But those who do good works; but don't believe and accept Jesus Christ may only be tasting vanilla. Yes it's delicous; but there are other great flavors out there. They are missing so much. Christians recognize other great flavors so the fruit we enjoy can be more flavorful. I would propose to you that the additional knowledge which Latter-Day Saints have is akin to mix-in items (Oreos, nuts, caramel or chocolate syrup...etc...) it adds even more to ice cream. The rest of the world gets too caught up in saying that what they've found is so good that the Church of Jesus Christ can't possibly be better than what they already have.
Sorry for the long comments. Please keep these coming. I love what you're doing and God will bless you.
Jeff, I have a lot of respect for you and admire you for your open-mindedness and willingness to explore the teachings and doctrine of our church. I have watched several of your videos and I really enjoy them, but I always come back to one thing... The Book of Mormon! Have your read it, Jeff? None of us, members, can truly profess to having what we call, a "testimony" of the truthfulness of our church, it's teachings, leadership or origins, without having read that book and then received some sort of a spiritual confirmation that it is true, and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.
As you may well know, when God allows your mind to be spiritually enlighened, where truth is profoundly confirmed to you and implaned in your soul, the words of others become pretty insignificant. This is why rejection, persecution, false accusations, etc... have little to no affect, on many of the members of our church. We are, for the most part, a happy group of people. We love our families and we love God and appreciate His blessings and goodness in our lives. Mostly we just want to share the message of peace and love. We desire to help others feel the same comfort and safety we enjoy with our knowledge of who we are and why we are here. We believe God's goal for each of His children is our own eternal happiness and progression. One of the purposes of the Holy Ghost (or Holy spirit, as some refer to Him) is the divine mission of bringing to our remembrance and/or bearing witness to God's children, of the truth of all things. It is the same for all mankind. And when a person experiences this level of understanding and is enlightened by The Spirit, it can rarely be forgotten or denied. If any of that does sound a bit foreign to you, (or any others outside of our church, reading this) please let me expain it just a bit... Many scriptural passages in the bible can be broadly interpreted, as far as: meaning, context, reference importance, relevance, etc... It can often be the same passages that vary drastically based on a number of factors, and even because of vuluntary filters that are attached with the interpretation. In my humble opinion, your inerpretation of the scriptures I've heard you reference, in rebuttal to our views or practices are
not solid or convincing arguements. Because it is that very aspect of scriptural fluidity that creates the chaos and confusion in the Christian world. We all believe in the Bible as the word of God, but differ in our views, still the same. There is a reason for the disconnect which gives rise to all the different religious denominations that we see today. Jesus Christ established one single church when he walked the earth. It was His church. He still is and always has been at the head of His church. But discipleship doesnt just take place in His church exclusivy, as we well know.
Christ will lead whomever will follow Him. You and I, and all other God fearing Christians are disciples of Christ. And all people who seek truth will find it. His light and love are available to anyone and everyone and so is His church. We believe that Jesus was simple in his teachings. Although He was met with opposition by the proud of heart, and they sowed the seeds of confusion, Jesus was easy for even children to understand. The meek, humble and pure of heart were the enlightened ones who understood the deeper meanings of his messages and could clearly see the pathway he was laying out. What most of us, the actual members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, have in common, is the fact that we have read the Book of Mormon and believe it with all our hearts. And in reading it with an open heart and mind , we have experienced something wonderful that many others have not and many who want to convince us to deny or question what we have received from God.We have felt the power of the Holy Ghost bear witness to us, in our hearts and in our minds, of the truthfulness and authenticity of the Book of Mormon. It has never made sense to me that people will attempt to analyze or explain, our church, its functions or its practices withoout ever exploring the heart of our religion. It is validating signature of our religion. And aside from that it is filled with beautiful and inspiring stories and message. It is a plethora of valuable information and is offered to everyone. We are all God's children! It is not "Our" book! It is a miraculous gift from God our Father, to those who are truly humble and willing to learn. A gift can only manifest itself when it is received by someone. We, the members, know we have received a genuine and invaluable gift. We want to share the gift but how can we share it when people are focused on the wrapping? Open the gift, Jeff. Please... read the Book of Mormon if you haven't already, then pray to know if it's true. I hope yiu will do this before going on about the points of doctrine that you are disputing. Not everyone will, or does, feel the same about the Book of Mormon. But I don't think that it can be argued that we, as a whole in our church, are headed in a good direction. I will say this, and I believe I speak for most of us, members... The greatest and most renowned Christian scholars in the world, would not have the influential power, means or ability to convince a clear- minded, intelligent human being, that God the Father and Jesus Christ, appeared to, and personally spoke with, a 14 year old farm boy around the early 1820's, just because he prayed to know which church to join! Then later, charged that same young man with the task of restoring the original gospel of Jesus Christ, and the priesthood authority back to the earth. Jeff, we are not sheep who follow blindly. We are level-headed individuals who have taken a leap of faith and put our logic aside to take on the challenge of the Book of Mormon prophet, Moroni, to READ the Book of Mormon, then pray and ask God if it is true. I believe that if you will do the same, and do it with an open mind and a heart with real intent to be able to discern truth or error, then I feel you will be qualified to talk about our religion with a much deeper understanding and the proper perspective. What if you are wrong and you are trying to disway others from partaking of something that is truly delicious and good for them but your own ignorance deprived them of the opportunity and all because you had now tried it yourself. That is risky business when you are doing the Lord's work. Please open up your heart, with sincere humility, to the possibility that we're not followers because we have been deceived or misled, but that maybe we know something that you don't. Of course, for you, that revelation could be devastating to business, right? If Joseph Smith was a true prophet, where does that leave you in your ministry? And your ministry?? The good thing to know is that there is only black or white. Either Joseph Smith is/and was, a true prophet of God, who saw what he said he saw, and did what he said he did, which makes all other arguments irrelevant amd authenticate the Book of Mormon as another testimemt of Jesus Christ. The alternative being that Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud! In which case, the Book of Mormon was a fabricated book full of deceit. One of those would serve to draw you closer to God and to the love of God and man. The other would serve to draw a wedge between God and man ultimately leading us to misery and endless wo, as is always the purpose of Satan. God either used Joseph Smith for his own purposes or Satan did. Too many have tried to explain the book away and after many decades, they can't!! IT IS SIMPLY ONE OR THE OTHER!! What are "The Fruits" of The Book of Mormon? You decide. But you certainly can't do that without reading it first!
actually, you can. it is completely possible to have a testimony of the truthfulness without having read the BoM. Perhaps it is rare, but it does happen.
never say never. absolutes are rarely ever true, especially when the power of God is behind it :)
Respectfully, the apparently unexamined premise upon which most of protestant teaching is based is the "completeness" and "sufficiency" of the Bible. For example, Pastor Jeff says he looks at the Bible and doesn't see an emphasis on ordinances (I disagree, but put that aside), so he concludes that ordinances are not necessary to Christ's gospel. But that's not logical, unless you also believe that the Bible contains everything necessary for our salvation, and there can be no source of truth outside the Bible. But that premise, to avoid self-contradiction, must be found IN THE BIBLE. It isn't. In fact, it couldn't be, because "The Bible" didn't exist as a whole until hundreds of years after the latest of its latest included writings.
Really enjoyed that video!
I'm curious to know how do you understand this scripture (amos 8:11-12)
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts !
Apparently the famine is caused by the inability to listen and hear what God's Word says. Reprobate minds are hardened hearts. Just a thought. 🙂
…the 400 years of no prophets from Malachi to Matthew.
Great topic. I appreciate the respectful dialogue and approach. I appreciate learning from your perspective as a non-Protestant.
Thank you sharing your beliefs on this topic. It is interesting to see the differences you point out among different denominations. I liked your frankness about the church straying and being brought back, which coukd be analogies to individuals who stray and are brought back. You referenced Matthew 16:18 which I saw in another of your videos. I have heard a different understanding of that. The context for that verse is the preceding verses where Christ asks his disciples who they say He is. Simon Peter responds that Christ is the Son of God, and Christ tells him he knows this through revelation from Father in Heaven. It is this "rock" of revelation that hell cannot prevail against and upon which Christ's kingdom will be built. Christ called attention to this, using Peter's name, which means rock, to emphasize that Peter "the rock" has received revelation which is the rock , or bedrock foundation, for Christ's kingdom.
I hear that scripture and think that it is more evidence that Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are 2 individuals.
@@amynazza Yes, it does. Similarly, in Matthew 5:48 Christ refers to our Heavenly Father separately, as He tells us to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
@@amynazza …the Trinity is an expression of the nature of God. The Father is NOT the Son, they are 2 different persons yet in a miraculous way they are of the same essence in one being. So the Trinity can be used to explain ALL the verses in the Bible both Old and New Testament. Showing the Father and the Son as separate people doesn’t disprove the Trinity in any way. I think this is misunderstood by many of the LDS unfortunately. Hope my explanation was helpful. You don’t have to believe that the Trinity is how you want to define the nature of God, but perhaps it can help to make it more clear as to why any example of the Father and Jesus as 2 individual people doesn’t detract us from our understanding of God’s true nature.
Spot on, very good video, done extremely well! I love your non confrontational view
I can certainly follow the logic and support the idea that so much good comes from Christian lifestyles and His grace is what makes all the difference… but the restoration brings more. Christ sought out John the Baptist for his priesthood authority to Baptize so it must matter too. Perhaps like marriage ceremonies which are an outward expression of an inward commitment… but the one officiating needs to be ordained to be recognized by the law.
@@davidjanbaz7728 what’s your definition of priesthood?
Are you saying John the Baptist held the priesthood? Can you share verses with me where I can read that. Honestly, I never saw the connection between prophet and priesthood. So interesting. Thank you!
@@DistinctiveThinking See Hebrews 5:4, Luke 7, & Matthew 11 (KJV) …and more has been revealed in the restoration of priesthood and the church of Jesus Christ… but even without it… makes sense that’s why He went to him, no?
@@trenthalliday I have to say, my mind is just in a whirlwind. I am looking up the verses you shared. Quite fascinating actually! 😊
I think learning what other religions believe is absolutely fascinating, and it helps strengthen my own faith. I'm so very glad that you are kind about it, too - there are so many people, especially those who left the church, who are embittered and cruel about it.
More than anything else, I'm eager to see your videos regarding your earnest study of the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ. I'm seeing all these videos about what members of the church of Jesus Christ believe about certain doctrines, or about your thoughts after reading Rough Stone Rolling, or other topics. I'm constantly interested in your investigation of the Book of Mormon along with the Bible; or in other words, the stick of Ephraim made one with the stick of Juda, as prophesied in Ezekiel 37. The Bible is the stick of Juda, and the Book of Mormon is the stick of Ephraim.
Yes
@@davidjanbaz7728 I keep seeing your name on tons of comments here. Trolling much? The great thing about this channel is the open discussion, respectful and tolerant and kindness emanating from all sides, and your comments are killing the vibe. Please don't ruin the good spirit that is being generated here with your love of arguments...
I shared this weeks ago right after he went to the LDS Conference in Salt Lake. Nobody seems to teach these truths anymore as the Stick (or scroll) of Judah and the Scroll or Stick of Joseph ( the chosen Son of Ephraim who was sold into Egypt) So I'm curious where you first learned this? You must study a lot and be a Missionary?
...from what I'm reading in the Book of Mormon Alma 10:3 "...Lehi, who came out of the land of Jerusalem, who was a descendant of Manasseh..." So not Ephraim. I know they were brothers, but if you're being specific, Lehi's family is from Manasseh NOT Ephraim according to the Book of Mormon. So that scripture doesn't work in Ezekiel 37. Secondly, Ezekiel received this revelation while the Israelites were in captivity in Babylon. This was a beautiful representation of the Norther tribes (Ephraim) re-uniting with the Southern tribes (Judah) as they had been in battle against each other for several years. (See footnote 22d Ezekial 37:22 LDS KJV) When Ezekiel wrote the names Ephraim and Judah on the two sticks, he put them together in his hand so it would look like ONE stick and help it up in the air. Thus symbolizing their reunion. Later Ezekial states in verse 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall no more be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all....vs 24 and David my servant (one could say this is Jesus) shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments and observe my statues.... 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt, and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children and their children's children for ever and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
So, did the Nephites or Laminates or any of the Book of Mormon people come over to the mountains of Israel? Were they united with the tribe of Judah having David (Jesus) as their King? Did they create one nation? FYI, a stick is a stick, not a scroll and even if it were, the Book of Mormon wasn't a scroll it was an apparent metal codex which is a book not a scroll. When Mormon abridged the B of M it was from the other prophets who wrote on metal books (codex) not scrolls. None of the Book of Mormon writings were in scrolls according to the Book of Mormon. So, respectfully, I don't see how the Book of Mormon fulfilled the Ezekial 37 prophecy in any way.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Yes!
I once had a 6 hour drive together with a friend who was a protestant. We spend the entire time sharing back and forth many experiences we and others around us have had of Christ's presence and power in our lives. These spiritual events follow them that have faith in Christ, and no church has a monopoly on faith. I don't see spiritual outpourings in other churches as contrary evidence against there being an apostacy. At the same time you can't be one who chases after signs and wonders or you could mislead by one like talked of in Matt 7:22-23
…doesn’t the LDS church teach that they are the ONLY true church?
@@BGCflyer Yes, but by that we mean the church is the only one directly lead by Christ through living prophets and apostles, and only the church has the priesthood authority of God to perform saving ordinances. It doesn't mean we have a monopoly on faith in Christ, or a monopoly on any gifts of the spirit.
@12:58 So what is the fruit of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Have you studied it’s fruit? The works that have been done in the world? The people who have been brought unto Christ by missionaries even if they chose to not be baptized? The fruit is great and good. And even if you don’t consider yourself to believe all we do, you can’t say we are a church of the devil. We as a whole do much good for the cause of Christ.
If the priesthood were really restored according to LDS church teaching, why do LDS priests not do the blood sacrifices of animals that were the priests' main job in the temple? Protestants believe that Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God, sacrificed for our sins once for all. He fulfilled the OT priesthood requirements of the law by shedding his own blood. The veil in the temple was ripped in two from top to bottom, signifying the end of the OT sacrificial system. Jesus is our great high priest, the only Melchisadek priest. Hebrews 7:11 - 10:25.
Latter-day Saints believe those same things about sacrifices being done away in Christ. However, we still believe in the necessity of priesthood for ordinances such as baptism, like when Christ was baptized by John.
I know this channel is intended to be respectful, so I hope my comment will not be viewed as too harsh or disrespectful. I am an ex-Mormon who is now a member of a mainline Protestant church (Episcopal). I often wonder why if the Catholic church is considered to be apostate by LDS folks, because of its history of error, such as selling of indulgences, the crusades, the inquisition, torturing and killing heretics, etc., how is it that the modern LDS church is not similarly in apostasy through its own errors? Polygamy, racism, hoarding wealth, scripture that is not what it claims to be (i.e. translations of real ancient records), teaching that God is Adam or that God was once a man, blood atonement, the November 2015 policy of exclusion, etc. So many errors the LDS church has committed over the years, in my view, it has apostatized from not only Biblical Christianity, but also from its own scriptures and its own original teachings and practices.
First, keep in mind that the Catholic Church with all its problems has remained strong in 2000 years. There will always be apostasy until the end of time. But has there been an obliteration of the teachings of Christ? Of course not.
And keep in mind too, that the bad things that happened in the Catholic Church, and there were many, was not the WHOLE church but sinners who did not follow Christ. I am a Catholic. I hate the terrible things that happened. But there were good popes and priests and followers who kept the church alive. Just as there are terrible things happening in every religion on earth. There are no exceptions.There are terrible things that American politicians do but is our country all bad? Think about it.
Peace!
Interestingly enough, LDS Doctrine also fits into the universal priesthood belief. There are kind of two different ways we talk about the priesthood, one being the organization and specific functions (keys) or positions within the organization, but also just the most basic definition which is the power of God. And we believe that everyone has access to that power through their faith in Him.
You should listen to the talk called "Why 1820" by Hyrum Smith. He outlines a time-line of the great apostasy and explains it in a little more detail then a short video can.
Agreed
@@davidjanbaz7728 drunk guy in jail still makes a legitimate historical argument 🙃
Great video, Jeff. Thank you. I have to say that the writings of the early church fathers helped lead me to the Catholic Church from Protestantism. We view the practices and beliefs (infant baptism, transubstantiation, etc.) mentioned in the Saints Unscripted clip as Scriptural and correct, while the Protestant and LDS practices that came well over 1,000 years later as incorrect.
Loved the video! I learned something new, which I love doing! I liked what you said about good fruit, it's something we (I'm a member of the Church) talk about too. I believe the Church has good fruit and it's also what I've been taught. I'm curious about what you think of the fruit of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Do you think it is good fruit? If so, does it relate to the good fruit of the rest of Christianity? If it's good fruit, Jesus' fruit, does that validate my beliefs?
Thanks for all your videos. As a LDS member I would recommend reading the 13 articles of faith which is at the end of the Pearl of Great Price. It would make a great video for you to read them and give your perspective. My birth family is all evangelical so your videos has given me so much perspective and understanding of what you all believe and how it relates to my beliefs. Thank you again.
Everyone goes after the Catholics, but what was it about the 1840s Prodestant Church Joseph Smith still had a problem with, I wonder..? Still didn't press the reset button hard enough?
You mentioned that LDS temple ordinances aren't mentioned in the Bible, however 1 Corinthians 15 does mention 1 of them (Baptism for the Dead).
Question: If the Bible says the Children of the Devil are EVIDENT and your religion falls into that category (Children of the Devil) is that the time to IGNORE Scripture? See 1 John 3:10-18
Here's a few biblical scriptures about the great apostasy: Isaiah 24:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Amos 8:11-12.
And the restoration: Acts 3:20-21, Ephesians 1:10.
I’ve watched several of these videos over the past few weeks. While I believe you have a desire to understand the beliefs and teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is becoming more and more apparent to me with each video that your interest is more for the sake of finding fault with and combating those beliefs via your interpretation of scripture and understanding of ‘Christian tradition’. Often, the very scripture you cite as ‘evidence’ to discredit a particular belief through your interpretation could be used by a latter-day saint as evidence of its legitimacy by their understanding of that same scripture.
Please believe, I’m not here to say who is right and who is wrong. I believe there is at least some portion of truth in all religions, including those outside of Christianity (e.g. Judaism, Islam, etc.). And I’d wager that if you were to survey individuals on whether they believed the particular path they’ve chosen to follow is the ‘true’ one, 90% or more would answer affirmatively. Or why else would they follow it?
However, Christ has said that He is the only way by which we can return to our Father in Heaven (John 14:6). So, while there may be myriad paths from which to choose, He has made it quite clear that only the one He has established will lead to the destination He has made possible. And it then behooves those who have a true desire to reach that destination to seek out and know with certainty they are following His prescribed ‘strait and narrow path’.
I believe I have found that path; as I’m sure you believe you have as well. But do either of us KNOW? There is a sure way that we can. Follow the instructions laid out in James 1:5-6 and the wisdom we seek with unwavering faith will be given by a loving Heavenly Father who desires nothing more than to have His children live eternally with Him.
Well said, Pastor Jeff! Your videos are so helpful for others to see the difference between Latter Day Saints and Biblical Christianity.
Which is the same .. inactive lds however got friends on there mission's and as a returned missionary and also when insay inactive it's because of work sometimes I can't go church for a month because of work .. however I leave my hob with my wife to go on our family mission next year July 2023 we will be getting our calling
@@anthonynettleton8346 , actually it is not the same. Biblical Christianity is people who see the Bible as its only Scripture, finding the doctrines and teachings of Christ in the Bible alone. Latter Day Saints believe in the Bible along with other books as Scripture, as well as the words from the prophet and other leaders of the church.
@@ta1424 …we’ll said, that’s exactly right
I'm so grateful that Heavenly Father has blessed us with prophets. The world can be confused very easily, but following the prophet and apostles can bring clarity and peace. So very thankful that we can receive constant guidance from the Father through his messengers and the ability to receive personal revelation 🙏