Video Game Hand Holding and the Yellow Paint Discourse
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2024
- Yes, the allegations are true. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth does in fact feature yellow paint, and that's a problem... I think? It's more of what we saw last year when Resident Evil 4 Remake dropped, and history will certainly repeat itself the next time game developers dare to have anything yellow in their game. Truth is, everything from Pokémon to Dark Souls has yellow paint, but the yellowness of the paint varies heavily from game to game, y'know? You don't? Just watch the video bruh.
Twitter: / nasuprime
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Personally i hate in a game when like you have to do a puzzle or something and every 2 seconds a character is like "well the thing said red blue green so what order should we do it?"😊
God of War Ragnarok was garbage.
@TheNuts1225 the new god of war games were what I had in mind but this applies to tons of games
mimir
garbage take @@TheNuts1225
@@TheNuts1225subjective
I think you make great points here. My issue with "yellow paint" specifically in RE4 and FF7 is entirely aesthetic. Color coding can be made clear and consistent without looking so gaudy. Sekiro's organic-looking white ledges are a fantastic example.
Me too. If you need to littler let slap a bright color onto the critical path, you need to re evaluate your art direction and environmental clues. Of corse the issue is the more subtle and diegetic your guiding is, the more likely someone (and specifically reviews who have limited time and have to juggle a lot of games) will miss it. It’s why I prefer sticking the “paint” behind some sort of sense mode alal persona five, where you tap a button and all the interior objects get highlighted. Sort best of both worlds in my opinion, keeps the aesthetics in line but also makes it so your never mistaking a intractable for a non interactive.
Yeah. This is exactly the point. You can make a ledge clear and obvious to climb without making it look like it was deliberately placed by developers of a video game.
The Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima examples being used in FF7 Rebirth would have been totally fine and still fit in with the visual style of the game. No need for yellow paint. It's also not like you NEED the yellow paint because in-game, there's still a UI element showing you where you are allowed to climb and (so far) I've been deliberately led to one of these climbing points by a diegetic element. The yellow paint comes across as weird because even across FF7 Rebirth, they use the more Sekiro/Tsushima style ledges in tandem with the UI. "Why use the yellow ledge at all?" is more the question.
You can even put an accessibility setting to make these pop out more or be more sublte.
Imagine if there were blood streaks instead like someone's tried to get the object but couldnt before death
Same with ghost of Tsushima
valve actually had a pretty cool philosophy on this. They essentially did hold your hand but in a subtle way. For them though, they tried to use lighting to guide the player so it still blends with the environment but subconsciously players are drawn to the light
That's just level design 101. I read a long time ago about how levels are always cleverly designed to make players feel smart, especially in FPS games and immersive sims like Dishonored. Players need to know intuitively which walls are climbable and developers always have subtle, underappreciated ways of doing this stuff
That's a good philosophy on level design but there's the conversation of how to point out interactables. Valves philosophy on that was a bit of more colour, limiting small objects lying around, and bright blue outlines which is fine for an arcadey game but would take you out more than yellow paint in re4.
In older days there were limitations, cartoons had to have things that did something different to it's environment on animation cells which stuck out, just like games had static backgrounds and interactables were handled differently and stood out automatically - games would also take a more arcadey approach.
When getting more realistic you can't just say "valve used lighting" cos it sounds like the solution suggested is to put a street lamp over every breakable barrel lol. But solutions could lie in subtle colouring, or making things look more "used" or "recently moved" etc
@@HeyJoJoTF2 Thats fair but in that case I'd argue that it'd make more sense if intractable objects like breakables were marked with the town insignia or something instead of random yellow paint splashed everywhere. I think the real reason the yellow paint is so immersion breaking is because it stands out so much while having no good lore reason to exist.
Ironically I think left for dead style outlines would be questioned less by players because it's obvious it's just a video game thing for the player. Kinda like how nobody questions red barrel = explosion. Not that I think that's what should've been done but the real takeaway is that I think people only care so much because the yellow paint feels like a half assed way of guiding the player while keeping immersion. If the expectation wasn't there it might be more jarring but people would just accept it as a video game thing
@@Regretted we'll be able to know better as more "linear but with mild exploration" games come out and try non yellow paint methods.
The sekiro stuff made great sense as since chalk is used for grip it is clever to have it on ledges, whether it was put there intentionally by the people or it's there because people with chalked hands climbed it etc it lines up with real life a bit and immerses you
Accepting it as a video game thing I think is an argument with a few shades. I remember with mirror's edge having red paths, it was a very video game thing but also had a lore explanation, but a lot of people still complained that it either was too hand holdy, or immersion breaking and I suppose "the argument" depends on which of the two people are also unhappy with or both.
Yellow paint being hand holdy - sometimes yes but sometimes it takes out the guesswork and eliminates the possibility of things being too natural and annoying to recognise like this video touches upon (however part of RE is learning things and replaying it so things not being obvious would still likely work just not for newbies playing once?).
Town emblem could work but even then you'd have to make it obvious enough to the point it might be too much for some anyway.
Immersion breaking - slightly different in that yeah do you want this third person spin kicking game to make you feel like you're living it yourself, or are you playing a game in the end so you deal with the yellow paint being a half gamey half in universe thing so you know to knife these 3 boxes then move on to the fun part.
But yeah no lore reason for it so town emblem could be better but then it can be immersion breaking as you inevitably question it "surely they'd just get stuff from a market why is there branded crates" or they'd have to create an entity/corporation that provides these crates/relief that makes sense.
But also it's a historically beloved intentionally corny game. Subtle yellow paint is kinda whatever in RE but for something like Warhammer where the franchise is all about every single thing having a cohesive explanation, random yellow paint would not fly at all.
I thought the use of colours/lighting, and the yellow taped box in re2 was perfect. Why not yellow tape on re4 crates? Taped boxes is pretty normal I would've thought.
Left 4 dead mostly had the excuse of post apocalypse/everything is cleaned out but they basically had fuck all decoration in their maps to the point you see a small object 95% of the time it's something you can pick up. In other games that want to look full of life it's something to experiment with
Welcome to game design 101, triple A games seem to have forgotten about this!
I've inhaled enough yellow paint to need it to guide me through games 😂😂😂
What I hate about detective mode, is that usually games that have it don't bother on making clear what you can or can't interact. Which ends using detective mode ALL the time, and that makes it fell less like a world, but just a group of interactable objects and enemies.
was about to make a joke, but then realized how I genuinely can never tell where or what shit is in Cyberpunk without detective mode. RIP hahaha
Def the Worst aspect of Arkham Asylum
I think most of the problems come from the issue that, even though the paint is diagetic , it doesn't make sense in world. Mountains and ledges having moss, or coloful stains make sense, but things having yellow or white paint all over is distracting. But, a box sealed with yellow tape, ledyes indoor having a yellow and black warning sign, or reflective tape in dark places make sense. It's not a war on signposting, it's more like a war on lazy looking, nonsensical signpost
To be fair, a lot of old games have things be a different lighting color is because of technical limitations on the console. You can see gears of war do this with some moveable objects. You dont even personally interact with the objects that move, the objects that do just have totally different lighting to stress the engine less.
What do you mean to be fair
You just restated the exact point he made in the video.
@@communistwookie1243 I watched the whole video and never heard him.use it in his defense. He pointed out RE4 which released on an underpowered GameCube first, so the technical limitations were a part of it. It's not really a design choice, and I imagine if they went back on that hardware they would've made it look more natural
@@evangel1460 I can't believe I'm having to say this right now. Like genuinely, I think you are stupid. The entire point of this ENTIRE video, is games made with newer lighting can't rely on the old school method anymore, due to the new hardware and lighting capabilities, due to this, games have started adopting more and more often, the yellow paint. The creator of this video says there must be another way that yellow paint, but the old.method your describing cannot work anymore due to modern technology. Obviously they are not going to release ff15 on the fucking GameCube, all your comments imply that's what they should do, release new games on the GameCube. That's the only substance present. It wasn't a design choice because they didn't NEED IT TO BE, now they do, and they've chosen the yellow, there has to be a better way. That's the entire point of the video you supposedly watched.
I only knew to click on this video thanks to the yellow in the thumbnail.
I called it: Videogame journalist yellow.
While you’re right with the whole hand holding thing and guiding the player, I am baffled on how you mentioned Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima having climbable ledges with clear indications but completely ignored the fact those examples look natural in the setting. The problem with the yellow paint is that I get distracted thinking “Who the fuck just paints sections of a cliff?” which is not a thought I have for Sekiro or Ghost of Tsushima because they designed it to be obvious to the player but not immersion breaking. That’s why the Yellow Paint is so annoying when “other colors” aren’t.
Honestly, it's no more distracting than "who stashed a sword in this box at the bottom of this cliff".
3:53 That is the most gorgeous looking Shrek I’ve seen in a game.😹
I think the main thing is simply making it fit in the environment without BLENDING into the environment. like exploding barrels, which in my warehouse experience often are painted red or yellow, or otherwise have massive brightly colored symbols on them because its kind of important to know where explosive, pressurized, flammable, corrosive, or toxic chemicals/materials are in a heavily trafficked area. the yellow paint on rock ledges makes no environmental sense.
also, that quote about removing a right-hand branch in a tunnel because one singular play-tester got turned around is just an instant facepalm for me. While I understand not wanting to "gatekeep" or push away players, at some point you might just have to ask yourself "do we really need to design a game around the mental capacity of a two-year-old?" Like, there's dumb, there's stupid, and then there's trolling. And frankly, I have a hard time believing that a player ran the exact same loop for 30 minutes out of stupidity. I hope for their sake that they were checked-out, bored, or just trolling. And then they solved it by just removing the branch, rather than adding a couple scrath marks or something so that if you took that "wrong" branch the first time, you would be able to identify it the second time and not do so.
EDIT: also, just add the option in the menu to just turn shit like this off. that way, everyone can be happy.
yeah. Portal 2 did it well with the white surfaces that could accept portals. They were easy to see (by design), but blended well into the environment because they were a normal occurrence in the structure of the map. Never once did I think they looked out of place, even in the later section of the game in the salt mine. Yellow paint on the other hand is fundamentally a special occurrence and stands out from the environment of the game because it was designed to. It is immersion breaking.
People can like a game and still hate some part of the design, this will forever be lazy but not a dealbreaker, they should just let it be an option you can toggle like the puzzle helps on the reboot tomb raiders, you could turn everything off, no highlights, no suggestions from Lara, just you and the puzzle. I would argue that missing a supply on a survival horror is a skill issue since they are about this, though this leads to an argument if RE4 even is a survival horror still, I don't think so, but Capcom says it is, so it should do better.
when are being chased by a horde of monsters you dont have time to figuire out what's breakable and whats not unless you just want to instantly die. when you in such a high tension situation as such (that happens alot in the recent RE games) you just need to find ammo and health fast and thats where the yellow painted barrels come in to save you, just break them with a knife and get the ammo or health or if you are unlucky and need health or ammo you are greated with some money.
@@lilbiscuitjz171 But why is dying in a game bad? Especially with how easy auto-save features make things.
@@lilbiscuitjz171 Maybe YOU don't. I like having to pay attention to my surroundings in game. Whether that be looking out for loot in high stakes situations or exploring every nook and cranny of a new area for loot. Although that could just be because of the environment I grew up forcing me to keep my head on a swivel at all times.
@@Blackpapalink no it’s an over game design thing, bro capcom isn’t worried if Blackpapalink can server their surroundings well. they appealing to the wider audience, you aren’t the audience yourself
@@lilbiscuitjz171 And it's why gaming is slowly becoming unenjoyable for me, to the point, where I'm starting to make games for myself. The average person's navigation skills have atrophied so much that we can't even identify fixed mechanics, even if they're right in front of us. And the cycle of making games fast, squeezing it for every penny, then moving on is making games less enjoyable to replay. It's no coincidence that I can go back to an OG RE game I played once and figure out my way through trial and error, but can't even stomach putting something newer on because I'm instantly gonna be bombarded with lines and arrows telling me "GO HERE, DUMBASS" or the main character won't shut the hell up about the random caves they keep passing every 5 seconds. People playing games these days want the trial with no error.
The yellow paint is honestly just dumb.
I mean, a much more elegant solution would be to just make elevated/protuberant rocks to show where it can be grabbed.
Thats "yellow paint" tho... It's still an unrealistic level design telling you where to go.
@@tgs5725 protuberant rock formations is natural to the environment. Literal yellow painting is "in-your-face".
@Rihcterwilker yes. But rocks perfectly aligned to the main characters limb lengths making it the perfect climbing environment is unrealistic. At the end of the day, it's a fake level created specifically for the main character to be able to traverse. Whether the yellow paint is visible or not, it's there in the form of a perfectly crafted unrealistic level enabling the character to make their way through the level with ease. Real life isn't like that
@@tgs5725 _"But rocks perfectly aligned to the main characters limb lengths making it the perfect climbing environment is unrealistic."_
But the idea that some rando is going around painting yellow paint on the exact rocks that are perfect for the main characters' limb lengths without knowing they would even come this direction is totally acceptable?
@@tgs5725 It's really not about realism. Sekiro ledges being all exactly the same green with white stripes is obviously not realistic, it's just about how out of place the thing looks.
Bro is gonna be one of the biggest gaming discussion channels in a few years
Only if he was consistent
This video is a downgrade from his previous ones. Traded fun banter to nitpicking and complaining
@@lostexodus I agree. I just started watching him and noticed the disingenuous examples he used in favor of his own argument in the last two videos. I'll very likely not subscribe which is unfortunate because the first video was very engaging unlike the next two which instead made me feel annoyed at certain parts.
@@lostexodusI kind of agree. I'm just glad he's not one of those video essay guys who resort to hopping on controversy and rage bait for views.
To see an example of game that demonstrate that is completely not necessary any yellow painting, look at the original Thief.
But you can still tell what you can climb on in that game because the climbable areas have a blue slight blue glow/aura on them.
@@grifgaming436 I was speaking about the original Thief (1998)
@@nifftbatuff676almost every game back then was easily readable. No lighting makes things readable. The original thief isn't even comparable to a game like re4 remake.
@@communistwookie1243 There is no technical reason why a modern game shouldn't follow the design of Thief. See the video "Thief vs AAA gaming" if you are interested.
@@nifftbatuff676one of the greatest video essays ever made. Glad people are still spreading the word.
It's absurd that all we're saying is that guidance should be subtle and less jarring and we're getting pushback, wtf.
Crystal dynamics solved this problem in shadow of the tomb raider. Give players the option to disable the environmental paint/guidance
Simple and easy solution.
That's like saying turning off map markers on Assassians creed suddenly makes its exploration even half as good as elden ring. Map markers are for lazy worlds just as yellow paint is for bad levels design. If you turn the paint off the world wasn't designed that way so it becomes frustrating. But elden ring's world was perfectly designed to work without yellow paint, so it doesn't suffer this problem
This is what I was gonna say. Some games remove the glow completely for those who want full immersion. The problem with modern devs is that they're being lazy. They wanna force everyone into easy mode instead of leaving options for the hard-core player.
@@rewpertcone8243are you serious? The game literally gives you giant beams of light that come off of half the graces to show you EXACTLY where to go. Ntm with the amount of graces in that game, when you finish the map looks more cluttered with useless stuff than AC lol
Elden ring just has reverse map markers, you get your first grace and it literally makes a GIANT YELLOW LINE both in game and on your map that shows you the EXACT direction the story wants you to go in from that location.
No way… software with options, amazing 👏🏾
I don't have an issue with the "hand holding" aspect of it but as you mentionned, it's moreso immersion breaking for me and it actively makes some elements look uglier. I didn't have a problem with it in RE4, but on those FF7R screenshots it just looks so wrong and unnatural. At the end of the day, I'm all for player agency. So the ideal in my opinion, would be a toggle between yellow paint, and some kind of HUD blue arrow. Maybe a third option for "neither".
the ff7 ledges is like 1% of the game bro. if that breaks your immersion thats just a you problem. if they werent yellow im sure many players would have trouble where to go or do next.
@@lilbiscuitjz171 Which is why I offered an alternative of making them a toggle, or simply a HUD arrow. Shouldn't be too hard for Square Enix, I think that fits the budget.
@@SinderSoyl bro wants companies to make a whole toggle for like 3% of the player base for the most minuscule of sections, personally a mountain side with yellow ledges ain’t gonna stop me from being cool af as sephiroth but hey, maybe they’ll listen to you one day.
@@lilbiscuitjz171 aye, 3% is a lot, and I'm pretty sure that would be enjoyed by more than that. The photography bros who keep getting their photo modes in every game surely would prefer if the background didn't have ugly yellow paint smeared on the beautiful scenery as well. Thanks for the well wishes my friend.
@@SinderSoyl be fr, who exactly is taking an screenshot with a mountain wall in the background as opposed to the scenic valley backdrop in that segment
To play devils advocate, nearly every game already has "Yellow paint" in the game. Worlds and levels are created very specifically to guide the players attention to points of interest. Im not saying the yellow paint is required, but I'm offering that outlook to the people who think they are "hard core" because they "dont need the paint"
Yes, and "yellow paint" is the worst way of doing this. Guiding the player is great if done subtley, when its so blatantly obvious it just feels like the game thinks you're stupid
That's not playing devil's advocate that's just missing the point entirely. Level design that doesn't need yellow paint because it's readable and guides the player towards the next objective without the player even realising is good game design and literally no one is going to complain about. Slapping yellow paint on everything so you don't actually have to design your levels well, is extremely lazy at best and incredibly incompetent at worst.
you just basically said what he did in the video during the lara croft and mirrors edge part. its based on the gameplay and type of game, guiding the player isnt a new thing
@@Ten_Thousand_Locusts you didn't watch the video then. He literally explains that the environment being bright yellow has been going on for 20+ years.
My guy that's just called good level design if you get lost in a game your not meant to be then that's bad level design and yellow paint is bad level design.
I'm all on board for a toggle, but I don't need it. Frankly my level of focus is so bad now that I appreciate the help
I don't understand the Gamers™ who have the primal urge to point out they're, in fact, not dumb. The loudest people complaining about this kind of stuff are so fickle.
I don’t think pointing something out in a negative light necessarily means you’re angry about it or hate it 😓
Facts. This video is filled with gross exaggeration and painting with a broad ass brush.
i was literally waiting on a upload
Love your vids man literally hyped everytime you upload cause I know I'm gonna get some actual insightful commentary on modern talking points
spending 20 seconds exploring around is too hard, I need yellow paint to reduce that time to 2 seconds, i need those 18 seconds to watch more tiktok.
Your point about how "making it glow would be worse" is simply untrue, and yes RE4 original is a good example as to why. At one point in time, that game was absolutely convincingly real to people and nobody minded the objects. The "real life paint" raises questions that glowing objects do not. I really, really, REALLY don't understand how people miss that so hard. Even explosive barrels can be explained by having fuel throughout an area for a base.
Yeah like it's a game. If there are "gamey" things in it we are cool with it, but if you make things seamlessly blend in now there needs to be a real explanation.
“At one point in time” is doing a lot of heavy lifting. At one point, FFVII had mind blowing visuals
@@NasuPrimeI think there's an enormous difference between the early 3D polygons of FFVII and the realistic faces and expressions from RE4 but sure, if you wish to oversimplify.
making it glow would be worse because if you took a hyper realistic image, inserted a hyper realistic box and then cut it out and made it glow bright it would look so out of place. yellow paint is just there and is less annoying than a fucking glowing object that is basically asking you to just go hit it like thats more handholding than yellow paint
@@fruitslicerI don't care about handholding or not handholding, but complaining about objects like that makes me wonder if you also wholeheartedly despise UI elements as well. They're so out of place they literally don't exist in the environment. The reason I'm okay with glowing objects is since those can be rationalized as "game" elements, not "real, explained in the setting" elements--in which case rather than accepting it as something contrived by a video game designer, I need to ask about the implications in-setting of someone painting something.
I think people just don't want their immersion to be broken, which the video nailed. :)
It may not make sense for treasure chests to be placed in forests, deserts, beaches, etc. but it doesn't break most people's immersion since we're used to it. I'm not saying we just have to get used to yellow paint. What I'm saying is maybe the old ways of doing things work better.
edit: Actually, the assist option by pressing select while playing Final Fantasy 7 was in the original Playstation release of the game too, so all versions of the game have it.
Perfect video to watch when dinner comes. I love nasu
A perfect example of the "if it's not needed, remove it" philosophy is Fumito Ueda's "subtractive design".
If you don't know, it basically consists in saying "this one thing in particular is the point of the game, I want people to focus on this" and then removing anything that doesn't help that purpose.
The point of Shadow of the Colossus is fighting the colossi, so there's no need to fill the world with side activities like it's a Yakuza game (non that Yakuza is bad, I'm just saying it's not the goal).
In Ico the point is to save the girl from the shadows, so there's no need for a healthbar or a complex combat system, just button mash until the shadows are gone, you're supposed to feel tense when that's happening, and not having fun chaining combos like it's DmC
re4r totally would have been more fun if i had to guess which boxes were breakable mid fight.
Gotta love how so many comments are literally just things he talked about in the video
because people don't actually watch it of course, this happens more than you can guess
@@plvto1 the classic practice of assuming a video is wrong by the title, and dumping your talking points with no rebuttal to how they were already addressed in the video
the only comments with substance are ones made hours after posting
The little red arrows and the finger pointing at Clouds head in the OG didn't look natural either but many of us needed it to find our way. Maybe they should have developed a select button option (like the og) to turn the yellow paint on/off
Your essay writing is amazing man
I'm glad you're back it feels like its been forever since you put out a video....yours are always sooo good 👍
I think Ghost of Tsushima did guidance in exploration well. The ridges that you climb on don’t stand out badly and still gets it across that the player can climb it. Also the wind guiding the player to an objective was really cool :D
It’s not that the yellow paint is bad mechanically. It’s just how ugly it is In those areas. They should just be more in theme w the game. it can even be slightly immersion breaking as long as it thematically fits. Spider-Man was the worst w this because not only did things barely stick out or shine, but pretty much everything you have to look for just requires you to press R3 and then look for an icon… why even have looking around be part of the mission if there’s no actual effort into telegraphing things? For climbing sections, vines, textures, or even just making something look climbable will suffice for 90% of gamers. Even ones that don’t play games.
I think this is a pretty funny discourse to have happened because if these people had waited for ff7 rebirth to actually come out they’d have seen that the game already uses other colours and design decisions when it deems them appropriate
Also I'm barely out of the first area in FF7 Rebirth and the yellow paint is mostly gone and ledges are less evident. It was a just tutorial paint😂
I can’t believe we’re even talking about about this
imo the bright yellow color or any bright color for that matter when used to mark stuff that can broken, climbed, interacted etc where it doesnt fit seems a bit off and a bit too hand holdy for me.
if the devs where to like make such objects a slight off color or slightly brighter shade compared to other similar objects in the areas while still look like they belong there but still noticable (if one where to look) then it would improve the immersion quite alot.
tho having the bright color stuff as an option in the settings you can toggle on or off for accessability would be good as well.
Instead of putting paint, put pieces of rope, hooks, nails, climbing equipment showing someone climbed there in the past, if the game isn't about climbing and stuff like that. It's that easy. You can even put your "yellow paint" on the rope and climbing equipment. If it's a jungle, just an obvious bunch of hanging vines or something like that will do. You can even make the vines a bit brighter to stand out. Still want the blasted paint? Put flowers or roots of said colour. Elden Ring has these magical "jump vortexes of air" to signify springboards. It fits. There is no red arrow painted on a rock with a jumping horse engraving. You just need some imagination and effort. Just slapping paint is lazy, and a tad too obvious. And also overused to the point of exhaustion. In my experience it gives "over here, stupid" vibes. If every game has the same design choices it just makes games down the line that tiny bit more gray and repetetive as time goes on, and players are becoming more demanding these days, especially since the price is going up constantly.
Even the example of items being "out of place" in old games. It wasn't the case many times. All you need is a tiny simple glint on the edge of the object. That's it. Just... think for a moment. It's that easy. If random shmucks online can think of better ideas, maybe it's time to test them out at least? Decades of game design, and all we can do is turn every "Tripple A" game into a carnival ride or a spooky haunted house from an amusement park? Make it somewhat different at least. If they increase the price non stop, then we demand more excellence for said price even in the most miniscule elements. I personally wouldn't care about it in a 20$ game. If it's between three or four times that... then you should show more work in every single aspect. Even if it's a microscopically small aspect.
the point is for those guides to NOT FIT. he literally talks about it in the video. that's the point to make it look like its not supposed to be there and takes your attention. plus you mentioned so many different genres of games. each genre has their own way of being helpful and tailored as such. the jungle thing is already a thing, in the video about tomb raider, if the gameplay is revolved about finding paths then yes it would be harder in gameplay difficulty as its already done and has sliders to adjust that. Elden ring is an RPG those giant vortexes of air aren't natural so it takes your attention "o what a weird vortex of air, it must lift me up and obviously take me somewhere" it is still unnatural you are defending what you are going against with that one.
At that point you just come back to yellow paint with a diffrent form the entire point is to make it easy to identfiy for a player which would be important if you want them to know they can grab to item or walls in more intance situation like in uncharthed 3 plane sequnace
Every visual guide serves the same purpose so ur just basically making yellow paint in a different accent
@@lilbiscuitjz171 Those objects are meant to stand out, not "not fit". Standing out is not the same as not fitting. The red in Mirrors Edge stand out, but they DO fit. Not only as an ability but with the game's art style.
@@Project-Spy same goes for red barrels, they stand out and are easy to notice but they fit (most) places they are in. a wooden barrel with bright yellow paint in a forgotten by god village does not fit
My man has the ability to talk about any topic in ways that are so well articulated in a educated manner and keep things entertaining.
I made the same point using Sekiro when talking about this once. Most games highlight their interactable elements. I find the instances of yellow paint pretty garish, though you make a very good case for why it really doesn't matter when a non-core part of the gameplay is being smoothed over.
you give me context about discourse that makes me want to experience more media. you also make me laugh really hard. thank you for making videos
I agree it's ugly, but it wouldn't be there if people didn't need it, everything looks so fkn touchable in games sometimes
I like it. It might be because I've gotten older and my vision worse, but if there's no signposting I'll literally go around trying to interact with every single thing - and this would be fine if I could interact with every single thing, but not everything is coded to be interactable. In Diablo 4, because there is no signposting, I'll hover my mouse over every single doodad to see if it's interactable and it's pretty annoying. I can't distinguish what is supposed to be interactable stuff and what isn't anymore.
Oh yeah. Diablo 4 is godawful for this, with literally zero visual indicator for breakables unless you waggle the cursor everywhere like some kind of bootleg Wii game.
Gamers love Yellow Paint. They just hate when they realize it's there, because it breaks immersion.
I think realistic or immersive game must give you control of the character and how you experience the world not straight up tell you what to do, and yes most linear games don't give you the options but it must atleast feel like your given the options because the feel of the world is what's important right
Yeah but something that also breaks immersion is Nathan Drake jumping off to a abyss bc nobody can see the parkour bits
@@lucky_-1y correct. That's why gamers like yellow paint when they don't notice it; they hate losing.
The reason why the yellow paint is there is because when everything is hyper realistic it becomes nearly impossible to distinguished between what is intractable and what is not intractable because nothing stands out we either accept the yellow paint or we don't complain the devs add yet another 'pulse to highlight all the intractable objects' button into our games
Low key want to see a vid just on P3Reload. But a response on your thoughts on the game would be nice
Great video! Sad that because of its noninclusive design I got kinda lost in it. Can you please guide me with yellow sub-titles?
i wasn't interested until i saw it was a Nasu video lmao
Why are there even climbing sections in the game? It would've been a lot cooler if i could jump up some smaller ledges to climb stuff instead of tiny hops around the place its my only gripe
The issue isn't that special items are marked. The issue is that it's so glaringly obvious that it makes the player feel insulted or sticks out so bad it ruins the immersion.
Take resupply creates for example. Valve figured this out in Half Life 2. The game is lousy with all sorts of crates and objects but only one specific type has items. And the player learns the difference early on when these crates are found in caches. Now granted the caches themselves are marked with yellow paint quite literally - but this is because these spots are marked as part of an underground railroad. Everything fits into the experience.
monster hunter 3 and 4 {if i recall} didnt have glowing plants and mushrooms. certain rocks and plants that could be gathered jut had a look to them that you eventually just recognized as a collectoble over time, or youd see a log with red or blue mushrooms on it and you knew those could be collected.
sure some of the plants had big colorful flowers on them, and some of the mushrooms were bright purple but they fit into the enviornment, and some of the bugs were pick ups without being big glowing beacons.
i think people just appreciate when in a game you can just use your own ability to pay attention to figure things out.
nothing in breath of the wild glows or floats and yet if you see a carrot on a table you know you can grab it
I think it's a lot easier when your in a fantasy setting. Most of the examples of it being egregious are either climbing related or a more grounded in reality game.
7:38 ive just started playing dark souls for the first time and i literally thought of the capra demon when you said this and there he is
People using RE 4 remake to justify yellow paint when it's riding the coattails of a best selling videogame that DIDNT use it is crazy.
It does say 1 day ago.
=confused=the same infamous quote.
Damn you actually changed my mind
21:22 I thought I was one of those lone souls that still remember that "Mario Mario" thing from the first movie LMAO.
Resident evil 7 is the first resident evil to have yellow paint.
Bioshock Infinite has an on/off in settings for highlighting searchable objects and important objects
Two options: Less in your face, blended "markers" or a toggle feature; the latter is likely more troublesome in practice.
A game could be designed with guiding/yellow "environment-indicators" in mind with a prompt on first launch to enable or disable said placed marks.
Ah yes I always paint cliffs around my house.
They could have used bird poop or lighter rock edges so yess the yellow paint on cliffs are lazy, it just has to make some sense.
@10:15, I played FF7 for the first time in the last year and I backtracked the entire map (at that point) when I got to that nonsense because I couldn't figure out where to go 😅
John Sony you say…. 🤔
Alright, it checks out. Let him through
Also talk about the constant tutoriol pop ups that interrupt the flow just to tell you things that you could probably pick up from gameplay.
There's a mod that removes the paint, and even turns the white paint in the castle into blood, and i'll admit i prefer it, but even tho it was my 3rd or so playthrough i still had to adjust to "ok i can break these", i was use to just scanning for yellow and moving on, but overall this made my experience 1% better, it was NOT a huge game changer that sucked me into the world and changed everything, and if i wasn't experienced in the title already, i'd have missed so many breakable objects
"in the mess of detailed textures and hyper realistic lighting that is moden games" theres your problem, it shouldnt be this way , noone asks for hyper realistic clutter where you cant understand where you have to go, art direction is the one that should guide, look at the fromsoft games, they guide you trough environmetns that make sense structurally and they let the players put the map together in their heads, no paint nothing. sekiro uses that white thing on ledges sure but its important to keep in mind thats the only fromsoft game that has the climbing mechanic which means that for most souls players that was a new mechanic and its the only thing in the game that does that, the rest is the usual formsoft art direction guidance. in elden ring since they dont have climbing theres notihing like that to distract the player from the beautiful environments.
One of the interesting cases regarding this kind of "handholding" can be said about how the dropped items glow when you defeat an enemy. I doubt anybody would say "oh no my immersion is ruined" when looting the drop (for example in Dark Souls) because just like you said it has no effect on gameplay or w/e. On the contrary if you go for a hyper-realistic way(for example in Skyrim where you have to specifically approach every object to be even able to understand ehat you're seeing) it can quickly become a tiring experience and loss of time due to the fact that it's hindering your gameplay now because you have the need of looking every unimportant corner of the room you're in to confirm you didn't leave anything behind.
Right. The game itself matters.
12:54 hey man I’m gonna buy it solely for the parts where you jump up yellow edges
They need an option for casual gamers who are new or just trying to bress through games with obvious hints and handholding. And for common and or hardcore gamers we get what we expect like jumping to a ledge we already understand should be jumped to. Or a obvious ladder to climb up.
This video is the link between playing games and watching movies/tv.
Some games are already hard to see because of the graphics so I don’t mind this at all.
You're missing the point. They should find subtler, less jarring ways to guide players.
objectives and quest prompts should go too
Never fully appreciated how well Portal's simple, readable aesthetic is worked into the game's story all being a lab experiment.
Personally I just hate how it carries over to other games, like the idea of intractable environments without UI popups are doable. We've done it with red, we've done it with contrasting colors all the time. If the game has cliff climbing, I'll just try to climb every cliff. So other games doing the same trend just seems par for the course, and yeah lazy.
Mirrors edge did this years ago and we still see it in games, i feel that its not an issue but in story game i feel we should have a option to turn it off, i’ve played story games with no yellow paint and really does add the immersion as you start wonder where to go even when youre not playing the game so that once you get back you can try the list youve made.
Still playing through FFVII Rebirth and the yellow paint never bothered me too much. Looking back at it though, I think it would have been nicer if they went with something more akin to Ghost of Tsushima’s signposting but it really doesn’t bother me.
In older days there were limitations, cartoons had to have things that did something different to it's environment on animation cells which stuck out, just like games had static backgrounds and interactables were handled differently and stood out automatically.
games would also take a more arcadey approach.
When getting more realistic solutions could lie in subtle colouring, or making things look more "used/aged" or "recently moved", or branded/put there recently.
I think re2 did these things really well, like the locker room where only some had things in them and you could see them and the doors were closed. Leon's desk puzzle, the puzzle items. Although the symboled doors and keys were a bit goofy and unrealistic it didn't take you out because everything looked natural to the world. They got away with not needing yellow paint cos it was a much smaller game and you looped every area many times interactables were quite easy to spot without the space around them looking empty. But in the bigger faster re4 with more going on would that work still? Was it a question of time or a dead end with ideas?
Consistently witty, with your trademark dry humor and common sense, informed approach. I legit lol when watching your videos and find myself nodding in either agreement or a pleasant realization of something you've pointed out that I may not have previously known or considered.
Yellow paint stood out for me with horizon zero dawn. I personally appreciate a little guidance, especially in open world games as I have a tendency to feel overwhelmed and lost when there's no direction at all
9:01 ”it’s like trying to find a needle… *in an asmongold’s bedroom”* PFFFFFFT LMAOOO 🤣💀
The first time I saw this video, I didn’t want to watch it hit because of how stupid the “discussion” is.
But I decided to watch it and of course it was an exceptionally well-made video. Nothing less expected of Nasu.
Your videos are just great ty
I don’t like the yellow paint but it’s whatever. What they need to do is making climbing not make me want to uninstall my irl save file.
Only real problem with the ff7R, I held left for ten seconds, moved analog left over and over and I still don’t know why the last time I tried cloud decided he was ready to jump to the next ledge but not before that exact one
Im currently playing dying light 2 and the yellow paint makes sense since the humans put their effort to live on the roofs so traversing the areas would have harder without navigation hence why they painted the pathways yellow in order to make it easier. But for other games maybe have different colors for different things
I didnt know people were actually getting mad about this, when i saw it i went "oh cool" then never thought about it again
Excellent analysis
PLEASE lower the bass. I almost can’t watch these Videos because there is so much bass in the voice.
Guy tryna make his voice super deep😂
Bro, how this guy make a video once a blue moon, but it's a banger each time. There's not 1 video of nasu that ain't a banger
The argument about sign posting holding your hand confused me, ‘cause how does yellow paint decrease the difficulty? Unless you consider lack of direction as “difficulty” then it does not hold your hand. It doesn’t solve puzzles or make combat easier, all it does is tell you where to go to keep the game moving and what items you can interact with. The game plays the exact same with or without it you just don’t get lost as much.
0:06 the ceo of new blood interactive publisher of ultrakill and is the man named big John
Doom 2016/Eternal with green markers was my first thought.
4:47 13 sentinels Aegis Rim, Lets gooooo!!!
(Those who have not played this masterpiece of a game, you are definitely missing out especially if you are a sci-fi fan)
How does sighn posts help with finding easter eggs?...
I definetly think you can do a lot better alternatives than yellow paint. Having destructible barrels be a different, brighter, type of wood will easily convey the same message while still looking decent. Wanting something to be easily spotted and look realistic is contradictory in nature. The other options of subtle, non-diagetic, visual cues are better than spraying paint over an asset that otherwise would blend completely in. It's more like you notice the paint than the item itself, which probably a big factor in why it's so annoying to look at for a lot of players
You said exactly what I've been saying, props!
Babe wake up Nasu just dropped
I remember when I played Dying Light 1 back when it was released, and how it honestly helped at first when I first started playing
Chests in Ff7r¹ are all the same now matter where you go, and obvious enough that theyre interactable.