"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." -the Holy Apostle Paul to the Ephesians (4:29)
"Whoop there it is!" Also.... Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer. Psalm 19:14 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. Colossians 4:6 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Colossians 3:5-10 Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Ephesians 5:4 and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds) 2 Peter 2:7-8
He really didn't. rewatched it several times. sounds lovely and philosophical, but is really just longwinded, and not pragmatically applicable to real human behavior.
@@Unclenate1000 yeah I'm in the same boat. I swear often. The only time I don't is when I'm around people who ask me not to. where I grew up its part of our culture. If I tell me my mum "I love you" or "I f***in love you" the later will mean more to her. They're not always negative. I don't think of faeces when i say S**t. The word means "not very good" or "terrible". Meanings of words evolve! In the UK the word "sick" can mean "awesome". "wicked" evolved into "awesome" too.
Another reason to stop swearing is that it requires a person to become more mindful of their speech, which is always a good thing. I used to swear compulsively, carelessly and shamelessly using the most profane words in front of children. I was only able to get into the head space where I'd even consider bettering myself and my speech once I made the decision to stop swearing and watch my mouth. It took effort, because I'd swear so much that stopping myself from swearing meant stopping myself from saying every other word. That effort translated into constant watching of myself and my speech, which was tremendously helpful to me in getting myself out of the unconscious pit of degeneracy I was in for so many years prior.
As someone who swears much too much yes. It’s a very practical invocation of chaos into life. Which causes more undisciplined swearing. Which invokes more chaos. Yea. I pray all the time and that probably just nets me enough order to keep my head above water. As it were.
Aside from the religious motivation to stop swearing, there is another, let's say "worldly" reason to stop swearing. This helped me in stopping 6 years ago: So, there are situations in life where swear words are "acceptable" - with your close friends etc. But there are also situations where swear words are unacceptable - in front of authorities or in front of your girlfriend's parents. So if your personal vocabulary consists of casual swear words, then you have to think and calculate in real time whether or not swear words are acceptable in your current situation. But if your personal vocabulary doesn't consist of casual swear words (you train yourself out of these words over time), then you can talk with ease, without having to think or calculate if the word you're about to say is acceptable in the current situation you are in.
theyre actually just words and have nothing to do with the other. expressions naturally are and can be exaggerated or analogous without ruining the "proper meaning of things".
One of the good things my mother did when I was growing up was not allow anyone to curse in the house. To this day we have a policy at home of no cursing. You can feel the difference versus when you enter a home where the whole family curses.
of course what she as others wont be able to do is draw a reasonable, non-arbitrary line when it comes to which words are "swears". Shit is not okay but crap and poop are? Ass is bad but butt isnt? its all baseless arbitrary bullshit. an non issue and obsession over specific words which we were *emotionally* conditioned to feel bad about. Now that we confront it with reason, some, like in this video, now have to backtrack and come up with some elaborate, long winded abstract philosophical answer for why it was wrong the whole time.
Swearing is an abandonment of self-discipline. If you truly consider every word you use, when articulating yourself, then you are following a pattern of truth derived from the Logos. To swear is to temporarily stray off the etymological path of purpose.
I stopped swearing in the last few years, and it was a semi conscious process /decision. I felt also really not comfortable with people who would swear so much around me. In a way i felt more deeply that i have responsibility (consciously ) of my wording out, and nd that my emotions actually trigger words of different quality. I first got rid of the 'i hate' this or that. I don't need to. I prefer 'harmonizing' with something that appears as repulsive or not nice or which i feel against to my opinions and ideas. By harmonizing means ' i choose to neutralize the conflicting emotion and to understand that there are subtle reasons for that to be oppose, and to appear to me in that way'. And in that way i allow the 'conflict' to resolve internally, not externally messing up 'the world'. Beauty and ugly are in the eyes of the beholder. Swearing has also a different level, which is expressed so clearly by Jonathan. In the wording one cannot ignore intention (emotion), and swearing could work as a spell (of magic) in my opinion, and that might be another level to explore. Which powers we have and how responsible are we with them. 🙏
I watched that entire interview. It was interesting to watch Pageau's patristic outlook engage with Fradd's Thomistic outlook. Fradd seemed almost mystified at times.
There are other ways to think about curse words. One is to think about them as a weapon. You need them occassionally, but most of the time you sheath them. Showing them all that the time points to some disbalance in your mind. The other way is to think about them as painkillers (which they actually are). The more you use them, the less effective they are, and the more desensitized you become.
Aside from the religious motivation to stop swearing, there is another, let's say "worldly" reason to stop swearing. This helped me in stopping 6 years ago: There are situations in life where swear words are "acceptable" - with your close friends etc. And there are situations where swear words are unacceptable - in front of authorities or in front of your girlfriend's parents. So if your personal vocabulary consists of casual swear words, then you have to think and calculate in real time whether or not swear words are acceptable in your current situation. But if your personal vocabulary doesn't consist of casual swear words (you train yourself out of these words over time), then you can talk with ease, without having to think or calculate if the word you're about to say is acceptable in the current situation you are in.
Somewhere out there in the eternally winding prism of eternities is a reality destroyed. A cold, lightless, timeless cloud of subatomic chaos drifting mutely in a directionless void. There, at the center of this nothing you will find its one and only something: a kitchen table with a pile of crap on it. Actions have consequences.
Great insights. Both types are disorderly and either take God's holy name or sex in an ugly, angry, destructive way; or put unclean things like poop where they don't belong. Interesting and hopefully will guide me in expressing anger appropriately in the future.
I see it as, What is a swear word? A word we deem inappropriate(in at least some circumstances at least some of the time), as well as to represent something in the world or a feeling(or another way to say something representing something in the world or a feeling, like excrement and sh**). What is a word? A string of sounds put together almost arbitrarily, and represented by symbols, strung almost arbitrarily. Is it wrong to recite sounds(if we take away the meaning of them)? It doesn't seem so. So it doesn't seem wrong to recite these words because we deem them inappropriate. Unless of course we are using them in a way to denigrate or belittle someone or if you say these words when you know someone you will be around is sensitive to those words. I like using the F-word. The F-word has a lot of uses. It can be used to mean having sex, a expletive when hurt or surprised and to emphasize or exaggerate a point. So if I hurt myself, "ouch" may be what comes out of my mouth. But I may also say the F-word, I am meaning the same thing. If I say "I have a really big bookshelf" or I say "I have an effing big bookshelf" I meaning the same thing. That's why I cringe at when people try to find "Christian alternatives to swear words" because you are meaning the same thing, just using different sounds. Maybe I am a fool though, or maybe I have thought too much about this and need to go to sleep haha
"(if we take away the meaning of them)". I don't think you can just take away the meaning of them and look at swear words as arbitrary sounds, because you cannot just change the words fuck with pillow in your mind and get the same emotional reaction you feel when you swear. Anyways, I get your point, but I don't think you're actually responding to Jonathan's point.
I respectfully disagree. I think you can use this sort of deconstructive argument to arrive at bizarre. Yes, words are just sounds that we've attached to ideas, but we perceive them as ideas, not as arbitrary sounds. It's like how I am just a bunch of atoms and molecules but perceive myself as a person with feelings and hopes and aspirations, etc. To say killing myself is ok because all I'm doing is stopping chemical reactions from occurring which can't be wrong. That's what your argument does though is it deconstructs what a word is to level that, while technically correct, is not the level we perceive language at. The F-word is obscene. Every English-speaking person knows this. And that's why people use it when they're mad and upset. People who use euphemisms do not "mean the same thing." What they mean is to use a nice word instead of an obscene one, which is the definition of a euphemism. If they meant to be obscene, they would have to use an obscene word.
I read the Master and His Emissary, a few years back, I don't know the page number, but McGilchrist mentions that profanity is not stored in the same part of the brain as regular language, so people suffering a stroke that damages the language center, are often still able to swear. At least anecdotally, I knew a man with just such an affliction, and that was the case. He was unable to string sentences together or pick the correct word, but he could cuss like a rapper.
I've heard of this kind of thing before, my question here is. How does that work like that via the different languages? If someone learns/uses NEW swears words from another language, do they come from the same place in brain as the native foreign language speakers?
@@elijahhope4581 I would think they are stored, to use the computer terminology, in the same section of the brain, assuming the words were used in the same way, as an exclamation.
Swearing according to neuroscientists is located in a very particular place in the mind. There is a function of swearing also. Violent speech can save. It is in the place of action often....posturing.
I've heard this before, my question here is. How does that work like that via the different languages? If someone learns/uses NEW swears words from another language, do they come from the same place in brain as the native foreign language speakers?
Giving reason NOT to swear doesn't help to prevent it-it only piles on the guilt in the process. As with any "sin" (that is doing what you would not do-Paul's Romans 6-8 argument), the weakness of the flesh to comply is revealed through the law. The real problem is the judgment that said, "this isn't right!" and triggered the swearing, not the swearing itself. God's argument to people in the Bible, whether it was to Israel cursing their desert circumstances ("This isn't right!"), to Job about his disasters ("This isn't right!"), to Habakkuk foreseeing Judah's doom (This isn't right!") or to Paul with his thorn ("This isn't right!"), was to respond with some version of "Who told you it wasn't right?" While "manna" might be doled out to some delaying resolution, the ending to all of these conflicts was a profound realization of God's, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness" (2 Corinthians 12).
Brilliant ! Habitual swearing is a bad thing. Swearing at its best is an art form, to be called upon only when polite language is inadequate. The polite social world is necessary to keep order, as Jonathan says, but it is also quite constraining. When that order fails us, a powerful, creative use of forbidden words can be pure poetry.
I have only recently come to think about swearing, and why we should not use vulgarity in our every day language. Eg. When you use the "F-Word" as an adjective in a sentence, what are you actually saying? Like.. what does "this f***ing thing" mean? It doesn't make sense.. I truly believe that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, and we should always put ourselves under God. I also think gaining a symbolic worldview is really important to waking up to the reality of the implications of our words.. I just don't see how using swear words is a good expression. I personally want to be able to articulate my speech in a way where I am much more descriptive. I can't stand listening to my fellow Australian's now... I just want to yell at them and say that the words they're using are not descriptive or useful Lol
Would "Holy S***" be an instantiation of "confusing the sacred with the dark outside" (5:28)? Isn't "kodesh" at least partly neutral to what it is that is being "set apart" or consecrated in relation to above or below? Just as Jonathan points out here and elsewhere; Christ brings everything (!) together in Himself and by so doing shows the world what wholly(holy)-ness really looks like.
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29 If someone does not believe in God then there are many ways to argue with the points presented here. And, fundamentally, If there's no God then there are NO real Morals period. We're all just random collections of waves or atoms interacting at various levels to no real purpose. From nothing going to nothing. So there's that. So anyones idea of "not using swear words" "using swear words when APPROPRIATE" are all just arbitrary meaningless rules. However if one does believe/understand we are created beings with high purpose. And that we should strive to be the best we can be. Like God, Godly. Like Christ. Then what they say is plays in wise territory. Biblically speaking there's no question: Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer. Psalm 19:14 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. Colossians 4:6 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Colossians 3:5-10 Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Ephesians 5:4 and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds) 2 Peter 2:7-8
I understand not using sacred words or concepts as curses. I am a bit more dubious over the notion of using the "things from below" as curses being an inherent wrong. Like the sacred, they can be misused. But there are some things which are cursed rightfully, for which no other words would suffice.
Self control. Unleashing a string of expletives when one stubs a toe, is a childish way to complain about the world. And everything a Christian should avoid. Prayer and fasting should fix the trouble. Same fix for smoking.
Why is it bad to be beastlike? That is what I wish he would explain. If anything, that recognition would humble a lot of people and thats a good thing. This appeal seems almost prideful to me.
You honestly cant find anything wrong with living based purely off your base instincts?? There is no need for morality or ethics in such way of living. It becomes survival of the fittest. You interact with others based off what you feel, not how you ought.
We degraded ourselves when we ate of the fruit. That is why God covered us, we became more animalistic. We are spiritual beings not animals, if you are catering to your animal instincts you are catering to this world and its would be rulers, which include the Prince of darkness.
exactly. you nailed it. its nothing more than surface level table manners, or some horseshit petty rule you'd find in your average HOA. There'a really no moral dimension to this that they keep trying to create.
If someone does not believe in God then there are many ways to argue with the points they present. And, fundamentally, If there's no God then there are NO real Morals period. We're all just random collections of waves or atoms interacting at various levels to no real purpose. from nothing going to nothing. So there's that. So your idea of "use swear words when APPROPRIATE" is just as much an arbitrary BS rule as their POVs. However if one does believe/understand we are created beings with high purpose. And that we should strive to be the best we can be. Like God, Godly. Like Christ. Then what they say is plays in wise territory. Biblically speaking there's no question: Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer. Psalm 19:14 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. Colossians 4:6 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Colossians 3:5-10 Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Ephesians 5:4 and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds) 2 Peter 2:7-8
I've heard of a study that linked intelligence with swearing. I don't buy it. "Intelligent WHAT", exactly? There's business intelligence, and then there's emotional intelligence. I worked for some super smart people over 15 years at a high tech company. I found that the "heavy swearing" smart managers and directors also tended to be very low on empathy, as well having a weak approach to team building -- sometimes to the point of intimidation and borderline harrassment. I don't mean the occasional "Oh sh**t, we have an emergency!" -- but the regular, non-stop continual swearing type, dropping F-bombs like a monsoon rain around the office, and even at all-hands meetings. While not universally true of everyone who were "high swearers" -- there's generally something about the use of foul language that sucked the air out of the room and just reeked of arrogance and negativity. I honestly had difficulty respecting them. I mean -- WTF?
@@mohammedzoraizzulqarnain6364 true. I know a number of Kurdish people who still carry the Zoroastrian torch, so to speak. The Parsis in India as well.
I understand what is being said, but like all religious symbolism.. its incomplete. Life is far more complex and not everything means something more than what it is. What if someone is acting in a way that is disjointed or in disjunction and identifying them as being an "asshole" doesnt destroy reality, as its merely a descriptive word to describe somebody who is actually destroying reality with behaviour, not words. And stubbing your toe is painful.. yelling out mouth noises is perfectly justified. The word shit or fuck is a mouth noise similar to saying "arrrrghhh". Relax...not everything is deep and about jesus you christian symbolism freaks lol. Put the tea leaves down sometimes. "I leave symbols to the symbol-minded" - George Carlin
Nothing really explained here on any pragmatic level. Just a longwinded abstract over-analysis of what really is a non-issue in the grand scheme of things. They are just words used in expressions. They are neutral in their use just like any other words. Swearing as a benign expression is not at all wrong, while swearing at someone (non-sarcastically) as an attack or insult isn't magically any worse that insulting them with a word other than the completely arbitrary list of "swear" words boomers pulled out of their ass. It's a social construct. Bottom line, and every argument given to try and retroactively backtrack and explain away this ultimately emotionally based taboo have been non-sequiturs. What was explained above, boiled down, really just reminds me of the "violent video games make people violent" fallacy that any reasonable person knows is stupid and an inaccurate assessment and understanding of real human behavior and influence. Same with this. me saying shit all the time for various different things isn't going to make me more akin to wanted to just shit in public or in the kitchen for example. You really overestimate suggestibility here it seems.
then why do the new swear words ("n-word" "f-word") also mirror this pulling from the sacred and the profane? That is to say, the people deeming these words swear words also hold the groups the words represent to be sacred, while said groups simultaneously, in the part that can't be spoken, represent the margins, the underworld, degeneracy. Why do traditional swear words point to the same things (sacred and profane) across different cultures and languages? Why the reflexive desire to prove everything arbitrary? I know this is what you're taught in school, but if you're older and still hold this reflex, really think about why.
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."
-the Holy Apostle Paul to the Ephesians (4:29)
"Whoop there it is!"
Also....
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Psalm 19:14
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
Colossians 4:6
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Colossians 3:5-10
Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving.
Ephesians 5:4
and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds)
2 Peter 2:7-8
*Stubs his toe*: Oh, by Abraham's seed!
Lool
Hahahaha
I'm afraid I can't watch this video yet because I know Jonathan will have a point that will stick with me
He really didn't. rewatched it several times. sounds lovely and philosophical, but is really just longwinded, and not pragmatically applicable to real human behavior.
maybe not your twisted human behavior, but believe me, some of us aren't as far gone as you. i hope you manage to turn it around.
@@Unclenate1000 yeah I'm in the same boat. I swear often. The only time I don't is when I'm around people who ask me not to.
where I grew up its part of our culture. If I tell me my mum "I love you" or "I f***in love you" the later will mean more to her. They're not always negative. I don't think of faeces when i say S**t. The word means "not very good" or "terrible".
Meanings of words evolve! In the UK the word "sick" can mean "awesome". "wicked" evolved into "awesome" too.
@@deerlow1851 pat ya self on the back for following the rules!!! I sense pietism rather than piety. Should be proud of ya self!
@@KnightedBean Rule-breaking for its own sake isn’t a virtue either.
"oh, copulate!" is so funny that i physically cannot stand it
Another reason to stop swearing is that it requires a person to become more mindful of their speech, which is always a good thing. I used to swear compulsively, carelessly and shamelessly using the most profane words in front of children. I was only able to get into the head space where I'd even consider bettering myself and my speech once I made the decision to stop swearing and watch my mouth. It took effort, because I'd swear so much that stopping myself from swearing meant stopping myself from saying every other word. That effort translated into constant watching of myself and my speech, which was tremendously helpful to me in getting myself out of the unconscious pit of degeneracy I was in for so many years prior.
As someone who swears much too much yes. It’s a very practical invocation of chaos into life. Which causes more undisciplined swearing. Which invokes more chaos. Yea.
I pray all the time and that probably just nets me enough order to keep my head above water. As it were.
The more structured your life gets, the more the sudden urge of swearing will appear. I have experienced this myself.
Aside from the religious motivation to stop swearing, there is another, let's say "worldly" reason to stop swearing. This helped me in stopping 6 years ago:
So, there are situations in life where swear words are "acceptable" - with your close friends etc.
But there are also situations where swear words are unacceptable - in front of authorities or in front of your girlfriend's parents.
So if your personal vocabulary consists of casual swear words, then you have to think and calculate in real time whether or not swear words are acceptable in your current situation. But if your personal vocabulary doesn't consist of casual swear words (you train yourself out of these words over time), then you can talk with ease, without having to think or calculate if the word you're about to say is acceptable in the current situation you are in.
theyre actually just words and have nothing to do with the other. expressions naturally are and can be exaggerated or analogous without ruining the "proper meaning of things".
@@Unclenate1000 I don’t understand what you mean. I think the whole point here is that nothing is ‘just words’…
One of the good things my mother did when I was growing up was not allow anyone to curse in the house. To this day we have a policy at home of no cursing. You can feel the difference versus when you enter a home where the whole family curses.
of course what she as others wont be able to do is draw a reasonable, non-arbitrary line when it comes to which words are "swears". Shit is not okay but crap and poop are? Ass is bad but butt isnt? its all baseless arbitrary bullshit. an non issue and obsession over specific words which we were *emotionally* conditioned to feel bad about. Now that we confront it with reason, some, like in this video, now have to backtrack and come up with some elaborate, long winded abstract philosophical answer for why it was wrong the whole time.
Thank God for Jonathon Pageau! ❤
Swearing is an abandonment of self-discipline. If you truly consider every word you use, when articulating yourself, then you are following a pattern of truth derived from the Logos. To swear is to temporarily stray off the etymological path of purpose.
So... What you're saying is...
@@Denis461997 That swearing is a product of patriarchal oppression
I stopped swearing in the last few years, and it was a semi conscious process /decision. I felt also really not comfortable with people who would swear so much around me. In a way i felt more deeply that i have responsibility (consciously ) of my wording out, and nd that my emotions actually trigger words of different quality. I first got rid of the 'i hate' this or that. I don't need to. I prefer 'harmonizing' with something that appears as repulsive or not nice or which i feel against to my opinions and ideas. By harmonizing means ' i choose to neutralize the conflicting emotion and to understand that there are subtle reasons for that to be oppose, and to appear to me in that way'. And in that way i allow the 'conflict' to resolve internally, not externally messing up 'the world'. Beauty and ugly are in the eyes of the beholder. Swearing has also a different level, which is expressed so clearly by Jonathan. In the wording one cannot ignore intention (emotion), and swearing could work as a spell (of magic) in my opinion, and that might be another level to explore. Which powers we have and how responsible are we with them. 🙏
I watched that entire interview. It was interesting to watch Pageau's patristic outlook engage with Fradd's Thomistic outlook. Fradd seemed almost mystified at times.
Matt Fradd is often mystified. :)
@@pintswithaquinas You and me both. Keep up your great ministry. It's making a real difference - to me and those I minister to! God bless.
@@pintswithaquinas Often mystafied but always Mister Frad.
There are other ways to think about curse words. One is to think about them as a weapon. You need them occassionally, but most of the time you sheath them. Showing them all that the time points to some disbalance in your mind.
The other way is to think about them as painkillers (which they actually are). The more you use them, the less effective they are, and the more desensitized you become.
Aside from the religious motivation to stop swearing, there is another, let's say "worldly" reason to stop swearing. This helped me in stopping 6 years ago:
There are situations in life where swear words are "acceptable" - with your close friends etc.
And there are situations where swear words are unacceptable - in front of authorities or in front of your girlfriend's parents.
So if your personal vocabulary consists of casual swear words, then you have to think and calculate in real time whether or not swear words are acceptable in your current situation. But if your personal vocabulary doesn't consist of casual swear words (you train yourself out of these words over time), then you can talk with ease, without having to think or calculate if the word you're about to say is acceptable in the current situation you are in.
thank you, Jonathan, please keep doing what you're doing
Somewhere out there in the eternally winding prism of eternities is a reality destroyed. A cold, lightless, timeless cloud of subatomic chaos drifting mutely in a directionless void. There, at the center of this nothing you will find its one and only something: a kitchen table with a pile of crap on it. Actions have consequences.
Gaaaaaaaay
Nice, I would like to see how this is related to comedy
6:43 *SWOOOOREEEE!*
Ha, gottem.
XDDJP
Thank you! 🙌🏼
Great insights. Both types are disorderly and either take God's holy name or sex in an ugly, angry, destructive way; or put unclean things like poop where they don't belong. Interesting and hopefully will guide me in expressing anger appropriately in the future.
Excellent! 👌🙌
Thank you for your work amazing 😊
Thank you Jonathan
Ayn Rand, who was non-religious and purely rational, did not swear (except on rare occasions for effect).
I see it as,
What is a swear word? A word we deem inappropriate(in at least some circumstances at least some of the time), as well as to represent something in the world or a feeling(or another way to say something representing something in the world or a feeling, like excrement and sh**). What is a word? A string of sounds put together almost arbitrarily, and represented by symbols, strung almost arbitrarily. Is it wrong to recite sounds(if we take away the meaning of them)? It doesn't seem so. So it doesn't seem wrong to recite these words because we deem them inappropriate.
Unless of course we are using them in a way to denigrate or belittle someone or if you say these words when you know someone you will be around is sensitive to those words.
I like using the F-word. The F-word has a lot of uses. It can be used to mean having sex, a expletive when hurt or surprised and to emphasize or exaggerate a point. So if I hurt myself, "ouch" may be what comes out of my mouth. But I may also say the F-word, I am meaning the same thing. If I say "I have a really big bookshelf" or I say "I have an effing big bookshelf" I meaning the same thing.
That's why I cringe at when people try to find "Christian alternatives to swear words" because you are meaning the same thing, just using different sounds.
Maybe I am a fool though, or maybe I have thought too much about this and need to go to sleep haha
"(if we take away the meaning of them)". I don't think you can just take away the meaning of them and look at swear words as arbitrary sounds, because you cannot just change the words fuck with pillow in your mind and get the same emotional reaction you feel when you swear.
Anyways, I get your point, but I don't think you're actually responding to Jonathan's point.
I respectfully disagree. I think you can use this sort of deconstructive argument to arrive at bizarre. Yes, words are just sounds that we've attached to ideas, but we perceive them as ideas, not as arbitrary sounds. It's like how I am just a bunch of atoms and molecules but perceive myself as a person with feelings and hopes and aspirations, etc. To say killing myself is ok because all I'm doing is stopping chemical reactions from occurring which can't be wrong. That's what your argument does though is it deconstructs what a word is to level that, while technically correct, is not the level we perceive language at.
The F-word is obscene. Every English-speaking person knows this. And that's why people use it when they're mad and upset. People who use euphemisms do not "mean the same thing." What they mean is to use a nice word instead of an obscene one, which is the definition of a euphemism. If they meant to be obscene, they would have to use an obscene word.
Yikes. The last minute really forced me to look at myself. I'm pretty damaged...and damaging.
We're all damaged. That's why we need Jesus.
Very interesting, thanks!
I read the Master and His Emissary, a few years back, I don't know the page number, but McGilchrist mentions that profanity is not stored in the same part of the brain as regular language, so people suffering a stroke that damages the language center, are often still able to swear. At least anecdotally, I knew a man with just such an affliction, and that was the case. He was unable to string sentences together or pick the correct word, but he could cuss like a rapper.
I've heard of this kind of thing before, my question here is. How does that work like that via the different languages? If someone learns/uses NEW swears words from another language, do they come from the same place in brain as the native foreign language speakers?
@@elijahhope4581 I would think they are stored, to use the computer terminology, in the same section of the brain, assuming the words were used in the same way, as an exclamation.
“…cuss like a rapper.” We used to say “cuss like a sailor”. Good point also with your choice of simile.
@@profeh3346 I said "rapper" because of the words he chose.
Swearing according to neuroscientists is located in a very particular place in the mind.
There is a function of swearing also. Violent speech can save. It is in the place of action often....posturing.
I've heard this before, my question here is. How does that work like that via the different languages? If someone learns/uses NEW swears words from another language, do they come from the same place in brain as the native foreign language speakers?
Giving reason NOT to swear doesn't help to prevent it-it only piles on the guilt in the process. As with any "sin" (that is doing what you would not do-Paul's Romans 6-8 argument), the weakness of the flesh to comply is revealed through the law. The real problem is the judgment that said, "this isn't right!" and triggered the swearing, not the swearing itself.
God's argument to people in the Bible, whether it was to Israel cursing their desert circumstances ("This isn't right!"), to Job about his disasters ("This isn't right!"), to Habakkuk foreseeing Judah's doom (This isn't right!") or to Paul with his thorn ("This isn't right!"), was to respond with some version of "Who told you it wasn't right?" While "manna" might be doled out to some delaying resolution, the ending to all of these conflicts was a profound realization of God's, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness" (2 Corinthians 12).
Brilliant ! Habitual swearing is a bad thing. Swearing at its best is an art form, to be called upon only when polite language is inadequate. The polite social world is necessary to keep order, as Jonathan says, but it is also quite constraining. When that order fails us, a powerful, creative use of forbidden words can be pure poetry.
I have only recently come to think about swearing, and why we should not use vulgarity in our every day language.
Eg. When you use the "F-Word" as an adjective in a sentence, what are you actually saying? Like.. what does "this f***ing thing" mean?
It doesn't make sense..
I truly believe that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, and we should always put ourselves under God.
I also think gaining a symbolic worldview is really important to waking up to the reality of the implications of our words..
I just don't see how using swear words is a good expression.
I personally want to be able to articulate my speech in a way where I am much more descriptive.
I can't stand listening to my fellow Australian's now... I just want to yell at them and say that the words they're using are not descriptive or useful
Lol
So in essence swearing is a post-modernist act which takes the good and the bad and dissolves both into a gray mush of relativist meaninglessness?
It's not postmodern. Swearing has been a thing for as long as language has.
No. Its just words used for expressions, neutral in their being like any other word, used for good or bad.
Well shit, I have to watch my language 😂
Would "Holy S***" be an instantiation of "confusing the sacred with the dark outside" (5:28)? Isn't "kodesh" at least partly neutral to what it is that is being "set apart" or consecrated in relation to above or below? Just as Jonathan points out here and elsewhere; Christ brings everything (!) together in Himself and by so doing shows the world what wholly(holy)-ness really looks like.
love this sh*t;D
Nice topic! But let’s not lump all animals together, my dog goes to the bathroom, lol!
👍🏽
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."
Ephesians 4:29
If someone does not believe in God then there are many ways to argue with the points presented here. And, fundamentally, If there's no God then there are NO real Morals period. We're all just random collections of waves or atoms interacting at various levels to no real purpose. From nothing going to nothing.
So there's that. So anyones idea of "not using swear words" "using swear words when APPROPRIATE" are all just arbitrary meaningless rules.
However if one does believe/understand we are created beings with high purpose. And that we should strive to be the best we can be. Like God, Godly. Like Christ. Then what they say is plays in wise territory. Biblically speaking there's no question:
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Psalm 19:14
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man.
Colossians 4:6
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Colossians 3:5-10
Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving.
Ephesians 5:4
and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds)
2 Peter 2:7-8
I understand not using sacred words or concepts as curses. I am a bit more dubious over the notion of using the "things from below" as curses being an inherent wrong. Like the sacred, they can be misused. But there are some things which are cursed rightfully, for which no other words would suffice.
Sometimes an asshole is an asshole. 🤷♂️
😂removed my comment
Self control. Unleashing a string of expletives when one stubs a toe, is a childish way to complain about the world. And everything a Christian should avoid. Prayer and fasting should fix the trouble. Same fix for smoking.
Why is it bad to be beastlike? That is what I wish he would explain. If anything, that recognition would humble a lot of people and thats a good thing. This appeal seems almost prideful to me.
You honestly cant find anything wrong with living based purely off your base instincts??
There is no need for morality or ethics in such way of living. It becomes survival of the fittest. You interact with others based off what you feel, not how you ought.
We degraded ourselves when we ate of the fruit. That is why God covered us, we became more animalistic. We are spiritual beings not animals, if you are catering to your animal instincts you are catering to this world and its would be rulers, which include the Prince of darkness.
Stop crapping on the kitchen table. Got it
Like holy crap
Or be a grown up and use swear words when appropriate. Some people just love to add more rules to live than are needed.
Limitations are the secret to human happiness.
@@Metalheadspartan Maybe limit how often you respond on youtube for a start then.
exactly. you nailed it. its nothing more than surface level table manners, or some horseshit petty rule you'd find in your average HOA. There'a really no moral dimension to this that they keep trying to create.
If someone does not believe in God then there are many ways to argue with the points they present. And, fundamentally, If there's no God then there are NO real Morals period. We're all just random collections of waves or atoms interacting at various levels to no real purpose. from nothing going to nothing.
So there's that. So your idea of "use swear words when APPROPRIATE" is just as much an arbitrary BS rule as their POVs.
However if one does believe/understand we are created beings with high purpose. And that we should strive to be the best we can be. Like God, Godly. Like Christ. Then what they say is plays in wise territory. Biblically speaking there's no question:
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Psalm 19:14
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man.
Colossians 4:6
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Colossians 3:5-10
Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving.
Ephesians 5:4
and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds)
2 Peter 2:7-8
Fiddle
I've heard of a study that linked intelligence with swearing. I don't buy it. "Intelligent WHAT", exactly? There's business intelligence, and then there's emotional intelligence.
I worked for some super smart people over 15 years at a high tech company. I found that the "heavy swearing" smart managers and directors also tended to be very low on empathy, as well having a weak approach to team building -- sometimes to the point of intimidation and borderline harrassment.
I don't mean the occasional "Oh sh**t, we have an emergency!" -- but the regular, non-stop continual swearing type, dropping F-bombs like a monsoon rain around the office, and even at all-hands meetings. While not universally true of everyone who were "high swearers" -- there's generally something about the use of foul language that sucked the air out of the room and just reeked of arrogance and negativity. I honestly had difficulty respecting them. I mean -- WTF?
But can we still tell pagans that the idea that you can know what Zoroastrianism was is "bullsh*t"? 🤣
Yes
Mithraism actually 😂
As long as you ask for forgiveness afterwards...
@@mohammedzoraizzulqarnain6364 true. I know a number of Kurdish people who still carry the Zoroastrian torch, so to speak. The Parsis in India as well.
@@FrJohnBrownSJ Exactly
I understand what is being said, but like all religious symbolism.. its incomplete. Life is far more complex and not everything means something more than what it is.
What if someone is acting in a way that is disjointed or in disjunction and identifying them as being an "asshole" doesnt destroy reality, as its merely a descriptive word to describe somebody who is actually destroying reality with behaviour, not words. And stubbing your toe is painful.. yelling out mouth noises is perfectly justified. The word shit or fuck is a mouth noise similar to saying "arrrrghhh". Relax...not everything is deep and about jesus you christian symbolism freaks lol. Put the tea leaves down sometimes. "I leave symbols to the symbol-minded" - George Carlin
Everything means more than simply "what it is."
Nothing really explained here on any pragmatic level. Just a longwinded abstract over-analysis of what really is a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.
They are just words used in expressions. They are neutral in their use just like any other words. Swearing as a benign expression is not at all wrong, while swearing at someone (non-sarcastically) as an attack or insult isn't magically any worse that insulting them with a word other than the completely arbitrary list of "swear" words boomers pulled out of their ass.
It's a social construct. Bottom line, and every argument given to try and retroactively backtrack and explain away this ultimately emotionally based taboo have been non-sequiturs.
What was explained above, boiled down, really just reminds me of the "violent video games make people violent" fallacy that any reasonable person knows is stupid and an inaccurate assessment and understanding of real human behavior and influence. Same with this. me saying shit all the time for various different things isn't going to make me more akin to wanted to just shit in public or in the kitchen for example. You really overestimate suggestibility here it seems.
then why do the new swear words ("n-word" "f-word") also mirror this pulling from the sacred and the profane? That is to say, the people deeming these words swear words also hold the groups the words represent to be sacred, while said groups simultaneously, in the part that can't be spoken, represent the margins, the underworld, degeneracy.
Why do traditional swear words point to the same things (sacred and profane) across different cultures and languages?
Why the reflexive desire to prove everything arbitrary? I know this is what you're taught in school, but if you're older and still hold this reflex, really think about why.
But is it ok to say « Christ que t’es belle! » to a beautiful woman?
Use His name in praise of Him or to beg Him. That’s what I’ve been prescribed.