HOW TO: Vector Transformer Banks
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- Опубліковано 31 сер 2022
- In this video, we dive deep into one of the pillars of transformer theory: VECTORING. We go through four different vectoring problems. I encourage you to follow along with me as we hone our skills and learn where the voltage potentials come from and why we make the hookups that we make. IF YOU WANT TO BECOME AN ACE AT TRANSFORMER THEORY, THIS WILL MAKE IT EASY.#howto #hilineacademy #journeyman #linelife #linemanlife #linejunk #linetrade #lineapprentice
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I really like this lesson it is very well done. One thing that maybe should be explained is on a wye secondary we parallel the secondary alley cat bad dog. I know you did that because you only show x1 and x2 my apprentice ask why you only show two bushings and I explained. I still watch your videos from time to time to keep me sharp. Please keep these videos coming you are a great teacher. Thank you so much.
Cody, I have almost 40 years as residential / commercial electrician. When I learned about transformers to take my state test, I learned the wild voltage (208volts) is the result of an open delta (2 pots). Now you explained 3 pots connected in delta with adding neutral activates the farthest leg as wild leg. Can you please direct me to literature or more of your videos to clarify my confusion?
Yes sir. So firstly a wild leg is a phase to neutral voltage that will always occur any time we introduce a neutral to a delta circuit. Secondly when our customers require a delta voltage( meaning 120/240 or 240/480) we can supply that voltage by making a delta connection using either two transformers (open delta) or three transformers ( closed delta.) Its hard to explain over a text but if you could imagine drawing a triangle. Each line represents a transformer coil. The points of the triangle would be your three phase voltages and they would all be equally distant from each other making your three phase voltage equal ( meaning phase to phase to phase 240-240-240.) The neutral is tapped off of the middle of one of the lines. Which would make the phase to neutral voltages not all the same. Two of the voltages would be 120 “inches” from the neutral and the last one would be 208 inches from the neutral. Now imagine taking one of the lines away. (Meaning you are now only using two transformers). You still have the same points of the triangle and the neutral is still in the same spot. The voltages or (distances) haven’t changed. The only thing that changed is the capacity (current rating) of the bank because all three phases are still being produced but now they’re only being supported by two transformers instead of three. I hope this cleared some stuff up for you. It’s super difficult to answer these type of questions over a text. Maybe watch the video lesson on “how to build a two pot bank” or now rewatch the vectoring video. Keeping in mind that the voltages are coming from the vectoral distances between all the points on the vector. Sometimes a fresh perspective helps a lot. Please let me know if this helped. Feel free to email me at hilineacademy05@gmail.com. I can include pictures in my answer. Stay safe 👍
Thank you so much for the explanation!!!!!
Anytime.
I've seen lots of useful videos on how. But this video includes the why. Making it invaluable. Thank you.
Yes sir anytime👍. Thanks for the encouragement.
Cody, You are awesome. This is the best I’ve every heard vectors explained. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Greatly appreciated.
Any time David. Thanks for the encouragement. 👍
Great explanation. At one year in to my apprenticeship i felt like i was starting to grasp what was going on with banks but this put it all together. thanks for being such a great resource
No problem. I’m glad it helped. If you ever have any questions please reach out. Stay safe 👍
Really good stuff, not many of us in my class (JATC IBEW) were really understanding this subject the way the teacher explained it. Teacher then played the video towards the end of class and we all got that ah ha moment! Thanks for the great content
Any time. I’m glad it is helping. If you need any further detail on anything get ahold of me. Ide love to help. Even if we need to exchange numbers. Maybe we could set up a FaceTime lesson if that would help. I am a full time line apprenticeship instructor for 266. If you guys need help let me know. Stay safe 👍
@@hilineacademy8482 thats so awesome to know! ill keep this in mind if i need help understanding! thanks so much!
So goo, start lineman school in a week thanks for these prep videos!!
Nice. Stay safe. 👍
Pretty good explanation
Awesome video! Thanks for breaking it all down. Way better explanation of the why and how of vectoring. Way better video than what some of the “lineman college” channels put out.
Thanks Ryan. I appreciate it. Stay safe. 👍
This was an amazing video. Hats off. Best explanation I’ve ever seen.
Thanks brother. I appreciate it. 👍stay safe.
Good stuff Cody.
Thanks man. Back at ya. You and Josh are killing it. You guys are making some Awsome tools.
Great video. Very informative
Thankyou sir. I appreciate it
Cody, These are great videos and have brushed up my bank building skill’s because of them! Is it possible to ask you a question about the secondary vectoring?
Thank you!
No prob 👍
You show HOW to wire all the configurations. You showed a great short cut how to draw out the delta and wye woth the numbers 1-6 and so forth...
Question... You glossed right passed the phase angle / angular displacement part...
Do you have a video expanding on this? I feel like i could take any of your examples and modify the delta or wye to still fit the "6 is above the 5" rule and make the configuration different.
I don’t have a specific lesson explaining displacement. With this style of vectoring you don’t have to worry about it. There are a few different perspectives that people use in order to try to explain the connections and the relationships we make between transformers to get the desired voltages. When you use the method of vectoring that uses a vector wheel displacement becomes an issue you have to explain. For example when you have a wye delta hookup or a delta wye hookup. This comes from the angles from primary to secondary being the same angle. In order to fit them inside a vector wheel you have to start the secondary vector 30 degrees off from the primary vector. In learning each way of vectoring and teaching each of them I’ve found that the style I teach which is called field vectoring lends the easiest way to understand the connection and how to manipulate them to get the desired voltage. It all comes down to what style is easiest to learn and apply in the field. 👍
On the wye/wye bank you only have two bushings. If there were three bushings on the secondary side would you use x3 and x1, or x3 and x2? I can’t remember what happens with x2 on the wye wye bank.
Great job at explaining everything man. I truly appreciate the knowledge you are passing on. So im about to be challenging the test at my local to organize in as a journeyman lineman. From a test point of view they would have to supply the circuit voltage and the customer needs and the nameplate info in order for you to draw out a vector diagram correct? I appreciate anything you give me. keep up the awesome job at spreading knowledge in this trade. I wish you would of been around with these videos when i first started 10 years ago lol.
Thanks Joseph. I appreciate it. And yes. In order to hook up any transformer you would need those three pieces of info. Circuit voltage, Nameplate info, and the Customers voltage needs. Stay safe. 👍
@@hilineacademy8482 awesome! do any of your videos go into detail changing windings of a xformer from in-series to parallel? just curious. I worked with a lineman that was pretty sharp with transformation. I didnt get to work around him long enough sad enough. the book knowledge of transformation is where im lacking. its hard for me to learn unless i see it first hand and your videos do an amazing job at explaining things to guys like me. keep up the great work man!
@@1995baseballstar yes sir. I just came out with that exact video on Monday. Alley Cat Bad Dog. Stay safe. 👍
@@hilineacademy8482 wow thanks! i appreciate it. love to soak up as much knowledge as i can
Doesn't the numbering of the bushings on secondary side depend on if the transformers are subtractive or additive?
The banks on your diagram make sense to me if they are all subtractive. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
A better way of looking at it might be to say that the numbering system is a point of reference that we use to keep each vector angle consistent with the connection. It really doesn’t matter if the transformers are additive or subtractive. The connection will still be the same. For example, a delta connection is inside bushing to inside bushing. Inside bushing to inside bushing. And a tie between the two outside bushings. If you explain it in terms of “x” bushings. On an additive bank from left to right would be x1-x3. x1-x3. and x1-x3. On a subtractive bank from left to right it would be x3-x1. x3-x1 and x3-x1. But the numbering system on the vector would be the same. And the connection on the bank would look the same. I hope this answers your question. This is a tricky question to answer over the phone. I wish I could show you on the board.
@@hilineacademy8482 I really enjoy your videos so far. keep it up! There is definitely a need for education that you are putting out there.
Thanks for the further explanation. I was just taught slightly differently but what you are saying make sense.
I also like how you draw out the secondary vector angles and explained that there are two ways to arrange them. Very cool stuff.
@@LOFIchillyboy thanks for the encouragement. There are a few different ways to vector and some methods kind of contradict the other ones. I’ve finally settled on this method for a few different reasons. It’s easy to remember and easy to apply in the field. When I start putting out videos on paralleling , the real magic of this method will be seen. Thanks again and if you ever have a question or need help with something, get ahold of me. Thanks again.
I struggled with vectors for a while to the point of just memorizing banks... you made this stupid simple to remember and understand!! Thank you so much
Do you think you could do one one phase rotation displacement in the future?
Thanks again !! Robert Waldrop
Do you have an email by any chance?
Thanks Robert. I really appreciate the encouragement. I was actually thinking of doing a lesson on rotation. That’s a good idea. My email is hilineacademy05@gmail.com
All my contact info is down in the description box below the video. Feel free to reach out any time. Ide love to answer some questions if I can. I also have Instagram as well. @hilineacademy
Stay safe 👍
I have really been enjoying your videos and how you really make it easy to understand vectors, polarity and transformer hookups in general.
My question to you is on a 21kv circuit, name plate reading 12,000/21,000Y, and you were to parallel 2 transformers together in the secondary and a wye hookup in the primary, would the primary phase on each pot have to be hooked up on the same phase of a 3 phase circuit or could they be on different phases in order to achieve the parallel? Would this cause problems going back towards the sub if they were paralleled in the secondary and the primary being hooked up on 2 different phases? We don't parallel pots anymore because it's more difficult to troubleshoot. However, it was just out of curiosity for me. Thanks for your help.
Awsome question. So in order for the secondary’s of two different transformers to “parallel”, the secondary vector angles must be the same angle, or in other words the secondary vectors of each transformer must be “parallel”to each other. In order for both secondary vectors to be the same angle, they must be fed by the same primary phase. Or phase angle. Remember. The primary phase angle creates the secondary phase angle.
The term “parallel” comes from the vector explanation of why it works.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. Stay safe 👍
Thanks for the response. To piggie back off that first question, creating the same phase angles in the secondary on a delta primary hookup would have to consist of the same 2 phases of a 3 phase circuit in order to parallel the secondary, correct? Thanks
@@user-hc1ql1er7d yes sir absolutely. You got it. 👍
How does the 120 degree angle plus the 277 voltage give you 480 phase to phase?
Good question! The 480 volt potential phase to phase is a product of three 277 volt transformers being hooked up in a wye hookup. Each transformer only outputs 277 volts and we create the 480 volt potential with the hookup. If you look at the wye vector, each line only measures 277 inches long. Now when we measure from the points( or ends) of our lines to each other we will measure 480 inches.
In a wye hookup, the phase to phase potential is not an output of an individual transformer. It’s a product of three lines connected together at a common point and separated by 120 degrees. The phase to phase potential is created by the connection and measured at the outside points of the vector.
I hope this helped. These questions are difficult to answer over text. Please reach out if you need any more help understanding this. Stay safe. 👍
I’m probably just missing something, but when do you know when the whey vector diagram is inverted or not?
So guys will usually have this question when they are vectoring additive transformers, and they are making the x1 bushing the phases and tying the x2’s together and bringing them down as the neutral. The standard is to always make the x1’s the phases. So with additive transformers x1 is on the right side of the cans. In other words your 2,4 and6 bushings will be your phases. And the 1,3 and 5 bushings all tie together and become your neutral. It is kind of confusing when you vector it out because you have to almost know the connection before you vector it. But if you follow the rule of which number is on top when labeling, meaning you look at the primary vector and for example on your 1,2 can. If 1 is on top of 2, then the secondary vector would be in the same angle with 1 on top of 2. After you draw all of your secondary angles underneath each can. You can then build your wye shape with those angles remembering that the 2,4 and 6 bushings will be your phases and the 1,3 and 5 bushings will all tie together and become your neutral. Your wye shape will then be “upside down”. I hope this answered your question. Let me know if you need any more help. Stay safe. 👍
Thanks to answer this question, the last bank have subtractive Xmers,16000V >8660v, so X1 will // H1. My question do you always take H1 tobe your primary phase and X1 your secondary phase?
@@itamorales6580 that’s a good question. You can use H1 or H2 as your feed for the can. That is to say if you had a phase to neutral connection on your primary side, you can connect either H1 or H2 to the phase. It doesn’t matter. The movement of X1 in reference to H1 per additive/subtractive transformers is due to the fact that H1 and X1 will always be pulsing the same polarity at the same time. So when H1 is being fed with a phase and the sign wave is on the negative side of the sign wave, X1 will be outputting the same negative polarity at the same time, no matter if the transformer is would subtractive(meaning the primary and secondary coils are wound the same direction) or addative( meaning the primary and secondary coils are wound in opposite directions.)
Sorry for the late reply! Burning the candle at both ends! Thank you so much for your answer! It has helped way more than you know!😎
So are these “ inches” say …..480….is that how long the winding is? Apologies if that’s a dumb question.
Yes. Absolutely! The voltages comes from mathematical quantities of angle and distance. So for example, the wild leg in a 120/240 volt delta secondary is 208 volts. But none of the transformers have an output of 208 volts. So where does it come from? If you use pythagorean theorem which is
a2 +b2=c2, the distance of b is 207.8 inches.
All of the voltages are just a function of angle and distance. As lineman we can manipulate transformer connections to give us what ever desired voltage we want. This is the beginning of learning in regards to transformers.
Hey Cody great video along with all the rest. I was directed here by an old coworker. Quick question, I'm assuming there is a way to figure out rotation via vectoring. Care to elaborate? Thanks in advance.
Great question. There is as long as you know your primary rotation. For example. If your primary rotation is ABC clockwise and your primary vector has 1,3,and 5 being fed by AB and C respectively. Then the secondary vector will be 1,3 ,5 clockwise. Stay safe. 👍
If I want to send an apprentice to your channel what video should they start with ?
That’s Awsome. I would start at the very beginning. The first lesson “three thing you need to know” would be a good one. It’s the beginning of the process. And answers alot if the questions that we have in the beginning. Thanks for watching. Stay safe.
Why is 1 on top 2 is on bottom for the first transformer yet you reverse those for tran 2 and 3 for the delta delta vectors
Great video and explanation but it threw me way off when you referred to the circuit voltage as the phase to phase voltage of the system. It must be a southern thing but I’ve only ever heard anyone refer to the system voltage as whatever the phase to ground voltage is and never the phase to phase. Great video though
I hear ya. I think what we do is use the language that we use, based on how we hook up our transformers on our different circuits. For instance where I work, we hook up all of our single phase transformers up with a wye, or phase to neutral hookup. So a lot of the guys here refer to our system voltage as a 7200 volt system( we have a 12470 GRD Y.) But there is an industry standard. In the world of linework, when we refer to system or circuit voltage, it’s always the phase to phase voltage and what type of circuit it is. If you use the phase to neutral voltage, you would not be able to name a delta circuit. Hope this helps.
Stay safe. 👍
277 x 1.732 = 480
Can I get some help ?
Sure. What’s up?
Why did you yoe down the wye /delta. Thats wrong. You float the wye /delta
Ya I hear ya. To operate the bank I obviously had to tie it down and I mentioned floating it when I was going over the connection. But I didn’t go over floating it because the focus of the lesson was on the open corner. But yes we always float the primary neutral connection👍
Great catch 🤙🏼