Let's Talk About PIE (Proto-Indo-European) - Reconstructing Old Languages
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- Ever wondered what techniques use to reconstruct Proto-Indo-European language?
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Reconstructing dead and ancient languages is not an easy task when there are no scriptures or recordings available in the present day. In today's video, I show how some comparative methods across different Indo-European languages reveal the relationships between them, and how they can be used to deduced what the cognate in the Proto-Language PIE (Proto-Indo-European) may have looked like. Thank you to everyone who helped me illustrate Grimm's law and other sound shifts amongst Indo-European languages, and to Dr. Andrew Byrd himself who translated and voiced a sentence in PIE just for this video!
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Just thought you might want to know, this video went up at Pi O'clock (3:14 GMT). HAPPY PIE DAY and as usual, sorry (but not really) for all the puns!
CORRECTIONS:
4:00 - that's not Greek for mother, but for father
2:45 - forgot to finish the list with Finnish
sighrony...
I've reached my LIMIT with inexactitude, my patience is not INFINITE
I noticed that with "you" you used both "u" for Dutch and "du" for German. The Dutch one is a more formal way of saying you that the German one. Though I do see that those are more similar
Interesting vlog but you somehow forgot to include the largest euro language family and thats are slavic languages ?
*gasp* How DARE you forget Finnish you naughty thing!
The Greek for mother is μητέρα (meetera) and in ancient greek it's μήτηρ (meter in attic and matar in doric), therby keeping in line with the trend.
Watch it, "you" doesn't belong on the *tuh tree; it was originally only used in the plural, from the separate PIE route *yus. The correct English cognate here would be "thou".
Trueeee
@@DrawCuriosity - Wouldn't it be "þou"?
Interesting vid. Earned my subscribble. Keep up the great content!
þu would be the Old English and þou is the ME form. Though I'm probably wrong, I'm not even vaguely an expert.
Also a new sub, very enjoyable and informative.
Stuart Graham you are correct
Yes, I noticed that too.
Well, I'm hungarian. We're surrounded with these Pies. I guess ill eat it.
*THE HUNGARIAN EMPIRE WILL RISE AGAIN* **Insert Hungarian national anthem**
@burak ayan Have a nice meal bro.
@@gusty_scarf 😆👌
My Hungarian friend, original PIE could actually be closer to the Magyar language. I am not sure you are aware that Hungarian, especially the Old Hungarian is cognate language with Old Latin, Old Greek and Sanskrit, not to mention Sumerian. There is a whole body of research, unacknowledged, showing this without a doubt.
@@szobione I don't want to get in an argument, but I disagree. Peace.
A lot of the conservatism of Lithuanian is actually in the morphology, particularly nominal morphology, since it retains pretty much all the case contrasts which have been lost in the rest of the family. In other places, such as the verbal morphology as well as some other parts of the phonology, there are other languages you could call more conservative, for example Modern Greek I'd argue preserves more of the original PIE verbal morphology, notably the three-way aspectual contrast and the mediopassive which were both lost/replaced in pretty much all the other languages.
John Hutchinson id argue Armenia
Great video. Linguistics is such a fascinating subject.
Superb video. In 10 mins you managed to fit more concepts and examples than I've seen in hour long rambling lectures on the subject.
This is by far the best PIE video I've found on UA-cam. Subbed!
I thought this would be a quick 10 minute video, but I had to keep pausing it to read all the slides. Good video. I look forward to seeing you again on π approx. day if not earlier.
Mad connection of the day. The notion of P.I.E came about partly as a result of the work of philologist William Jones. He wasn't the first person to note that Sanskrit is similar to Latin but he was the guy who widely publicised it. The Greek letter π wasn't actually used by the Ancient Greeks for the mathematical constant. That came much later and was the invention of.............
William Jones' father. (Also called William Jones).
In 3:56, while you had given the rendering of each IE language for mother, in comparison instead of "μήτηρ/meter" (mother), you gave "πάτηρ/pater" (father) for Greek.
well, you shouldn't judge if she identify as the father.
@@TheZenytram 😂😂
absolutely unrelated to this small mistake, but I recently discovered that in georgian "father" is "mama" (and "mother" is "deda"). mind blown
Watching this video was fascinating (great job!!) because I was able to see connections between the different languages I speak that I hadn’t seen before. Like you say, I can generally make out the meaning of French or Portuguese from speaking Spanish, and from Polish or Russian from speaking Serbocroatian, but your charts highlighted just how close they all are. Especially with the context of many different derivatives across different language families, you can actually hear the shifts in pronunciation and see where everything connects! Just brilliant!!
I love the attempted PIE at the end ♥
Hello from Lithuania!
Your Spanish is flawless!
Thanks! Soy de Sevilla, jejeje
@@DrawCuriosity On my first trip to America, not being worldly enough to know what language is spoken in Ireland, the students I was teaching Mathematics to complimented me on my English all the time hahaha.
@@DrawCuriosity Your english is flawless, then. I think it has to have someting to do with "Dawson". Maybe not y me estoy pasando de listo. Awsome works anyway!
I‘ve found it interesting how closely linguistic evolution parallels biological evolution. So glad you covered this!
It's very simplistic though, and not as acurate as many people assume. Unlike with genetics, languages that exist together can very often influence each other, without being directly "related". That would be like two species swapping genes with each other because they happen to live in close proximity, as opposed to only sharing genes from common ancestors.
@@surin925 Interestingly (and I might be wrong here, I'm not a biologist) I believe some life forms such as bacteria can actually do that. Again, I don't know where I got this from, so it might be completely wrong.
@@xway2 I think there are some examples of this, especially from viruses, which aren't technically living organisms, but in general the analogy is fairly flawed for linguistics. One example, just from the PIE languages, is the Germanic language brach, which is some kind of a hybrid between PIE languages and another pre indo-European language that used to exist in Europe. And even the lady here in the video mentioned a couple things about Romanian having a decent amount of non PIE influences in it. There are technical terms for this in linguistics, but even in the study of linguistics, where they technically recognize this, I think they tend to overplay the "genetics" element of it a bit too often, just because it's such a convenient explanation.
@@surin925 you are not entirely correct here: every single branch of PIE is supposed to have come in contact with one or more languages spoken in the areas they finally conquered and the influence of that/those languages is considered one of the main causes of linguistic differentiation between IE languages.
This is valid, though, for all of them and not for Germanic languages in particular.
Besides you use the term hybrid - creole would be more appropriate - which is a process we have no reason to believe ever happened as all old IE languages retains highly complex grammars when grammar is the first thing that undergoes a simplification when pidginisation happens.
Yes, any analogy taken too far will always fail at the details, but comparing the two things in a general way can make it a lot easier to explain either linguistics or biological evolution.
This is the cutest video on PIE
This video was phenomenal and you kept something as dry as word pronunciations and origins upbeat and interesting far beyond what should otherwise be possible. Your pronunciation was crisp and easy to distinguish, and I never knew how sexy it could be listening to someone recite Don Quixote De La Mancha back could be. The audio was so good, it sounded dubbed after the fact, and while the Don Quixote recital may have been, its impossible to tell. Your editing and recording were phenomenal and they really helped pique my interest, look forward to seeing more!
Love the video Inés! You covered it better than I would have, and I work in languages lol
You're a joy to watch and listen to :) Please feel free to do more linguistics related content.
This is so well done and well explained!
This is really interesting. I am interested in Norse mythology and have been watching Dr Jackson Crawford's videos about the reconstructed Old Norse but I didn't thinnk that it would be possible to reconstruct PIE as there are no written examples. You also made it very entertaining. Well done and thank you sub earned straight away.
After all my years doing experimental writing and looking through Webster's Dictionary at the etymology section and everything else and looking at the thesaurus and the rhyming dictionary and all that it warms my heart to see someone going after lexicography with such Deft enthusiasm thank you for the video
That was very interesting!
Hmmm. As a lifelong speaker of Portuguese I must say: it's rather easy to understand Spanish, it is somewhat possible to understand Italian and it's borderline impossible to understand French.
And actually impossible to understand Romanian. ^_^
@@benjamindilworth6057 unless you're brazilian
@@kosukemiura1226 I'm brazilian and my romanian friend can somewhat understad portuguese, but I can read like 1 in 10 sentences in romanian. It's quite hard.
Very interesting video. Thanks Toby!
This is the first video of you I run into and I'm subscribing already. Thank you for your top-quality work.
A wonderfully engaging video. Thx
I think I’m in love. Keep up the good work
She's brilliant, love her enthusiasm
“The History of the English Language” podcast series would be interesting to those who found this video interesting.
Yas my faviourite topic. So glad it pops up on youtube more and more.
I didn't know you did linguistics stuff too. Linguistics and biology are 2 of my favorite subjects :D More of this please
thank you for this intro...I love the idea of Pi approx. day!
Wonderful presentation.
There are a lot of extremely bright educators on UA-cam but your the truest polymath I can think of.
...may I BASQUE you a question?
Euskera is from Dogon.
You CATALAN
This was quite interesting! Would love to see an IPA PIE video please.
The Doctor owes you a Tardis ride so you can hear PIE for yourself.
Just discovered you via Tom Scotts Channel. And this introduction really made me smile. I suppose you're the cute nerd girl everyone's talking about. Subbed :)
Ummm, is it just me or is this channel criminally underrated??
That was so cool ! =D
I thought about you today. It isn't your birthday but it could be a semiannual celebration for you. Today, January 23, is National Pie Day in the USA, which celebrates the beloved baked dish. I hope that you are having a wonderful time and experiencing meaningful adventures. Pies aren't such a bad thing with which to be associated. Neither is Pi.
Cheers and felicitaciones!
Great video! I would have liked to have seen a mention of Sambahsa; the constructed language based on a reconstruction of PIE, that a hand-full of people speak today!
Thank you!
6:40 That was Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation tho :/
Yeah, originally, the sound "c" made was *_always_* the "k" sound.
These same sound shifts occur regularly in Irish. The sound switch from c to g or p to b etc can be seen in the Dative case of nouns where the initial syllable sound mutates and also in the genitive case plural where similar changes occur . Prison is priosún dative case in prioson = i bpriosún genetive case plurals ballaí na bpriosún = the walls of the prisons. Ar an gcapall = on the horse(capall) gort na gcapall(the field of horses)
What evidence is used to show the relations between Indo-European languages and to re-construct Proto-Indo-European? Would you recommend some book or articles where we read about this time?
Is there any frequency occurrence table of PIE words in wiktionaror any objective table?
Seriously the more PIE the better - one of the most fantastic interesting subjects - lets all start speaking reconstructed Proto-Indo-European - taking bets on how long it takes to create a new family tree
I was looking for some math, but this was still great
Great video Inés! Historical phonology sounds so fun. I’m curious if the shift in cognates was to make pronunciation easier? It sounded pretty tough to speak. Haha
Fascinating! The lilting delivery of the presenter is most engaging. Good job. I wonder if the familiar North American menu item "P.E.I. Mussels" is the result of some kind of shift and how one would say this in P.I.E.
The languages used in the game Far Cry: Primal are also based heavily upon PIE. Andrew Byrd, your PIE translator, was one of the linguists working on the languages in that game.
Almost a reason to give that game a try.
Your Brilliant,well done.
I think I just fell in love a little bit
8:28 “can-tucky” for “Kentucky” which is deliciously said. I don’t know how one person can be this educated. These vids are a delight.
Is it wrong I wanted MORE puns? I have always found PIE such an interesting concept but didn't know much about it nor that it can be abbreviated to PIE. Very cool you got so many native speakers of all these languages although I'm not convinced PIE isn't just someone clearing their throat. Useless trivia: In India pariah dogs (ie urban strays) are colloquially abbreviated to pie dogs. I don't know what they're called in Sanskrit ;p
The throat clearing sounds are because of the laryngeal theory, which proposes that PIE had three or four laryngeal consonants. Think German, where you have the different "H" sounds in habe, ich and ach. Hittite, which was a very ancient Indo-European language or at least a sister to PIE was written in a Semitic script that had separate symbols for each kind of "H" and since Hittite distinguished those sounds linguists suspect that the distinction was important in PIE as well.
It was PHIne with me, I could XIssed her 1.168 face. Most girls I need to have a few PHInts primarily.
(Couldn't get יברת and Greek keyboard)
Trivia is an ironic word, Tri, Via
Three ways of learning.....
Rhetoric
Logic
Geometry ?????
I can't remember but good Tri Via🤓
@@dc4457 ה hey
ח chet/cket
Except that it's *not* pronounced as "pie"! See my other comment.
Nice !
2:28 Although "a trăi" is the more widespread word for "to live" in Romanian there is also "a viețui" which is also pretty standard and does indeed follows the same roots. The same is true for most slavic derivations in the language. There is almost always a Latin derived synonym.
Do you know anyone or anywhere you can learn indo european language online with audio or online collage course . Thank you and god bless
Honestly, I only use yyyy/mm/dd unless I'm forced otherwise...date is a larger function of time, so larger values should be to the left.
But nevermind that...languages and linguistics alwasy interested me, so having that for Pi day is a pleasantly new thing.
I love your videos, and all the info in them, especially this one.
There is just one small complaint I have - please do something about the microphone. I could here every movement of your tongue and lips within your mouth. I don't know if the sensitivity needs to be decreased or if just moving it further from the mouth would be enough, but either way it makes for uncomfortable listening.
Thanks!
Very cool vid
Everyone: That's right! Mother. Ok Greek, go on, your turn c:
Greek: *PATERAS*
Hahahaha I know, it is corrected in the pinned comment 😅
Where can I find the phylogenetic tree with audio that you used?
In the video... I made it specifically for the video 😅
Perfect pronunciation
My absolute favourite tidbit is that we know that the people who spoke PIE traded for gold and silver, but did not smelt the metals themselves. Given that we have _no_ archaeological evidence that we can reliably associate with them, how can we know this? Well, it's because PIE had words for _gold_ and for _silver,_ but they had no word for _lead_ - which is a byproduct of smelting and silver-bearing ore.
We continue to stan.
Where can I learn conversational PIE in case I have to call on the Sky Father for some favors?
Every time you made a pie pun I vocaly said "o god" at my phone, EVERY time. lol nah you are a treasure of this post-adpocolips yputube
Fine video Inés! ⭐️⭐️⭐️ ❤️😋🥧 🌹
I’m always puzzled by how one is to pronounce H1, H2 and H3. Or is it simply unknown? If one was to take a wild guess?
Or what if one was to do a practical reconstruction, what could they be? Would it be wrong to make them vowels? PIE looks so terribly guttural and consonant-heavy. Could one create a PIE-light?
However logical your argument might be, I prefer to be irrational and celebrate Pi Day on March 14th. (See what I did there?) It is a habit I embraced over 50-years ago, and I am too old to change.
This video is a good introduction to PIE. I am accustomed to seeing Grimm's Law presented in circular graphs. I was a bit surprised that it was not presented in that way, but I am an old guy and those sound shifts are most probably presented differently today.
Hi! Great video! I wish you'd shown more examples from Indo-Iranian languages in the changes since they form a majority of Indo-European languages spoken today. It doesn't make so much sense to go from Sanskrit to Norwegian, I think
That's just one branch though.
8:32 I've noticed that quite a few (younger) Brits seem to prononunce some tucked-in "Rs" as a kind of very loose, soemwhat ambiguous "W" or even an "V" (or somewhere between. In this case, "proto" almost sound like "pvoto" or "pwoto". This isn't mean to bring attention to some kind of speech impediment (I've seen some call it that, but it seems so common that I'm doubtful) - but rather I'm wondering: is it a dialectal feature, or maybe some kind of currently undergoing linguistic shift in British English in some areas? I've heard it has something to do with how children learn to form "r" initially, something to do with the positions of the tongue and lips and all that. Sorry, I'm not super-knowledgeable about it.
Tom Scott made a very good video explaining this phenomenon: ua-cam.com/video/ld3A3QCpXd4/v-deo.html
It is indeed a British accent thing, though as a good Spaniard I can also roll my rs when needed. :)
Interesting.
6:55
Lithuanian: Dubus (concave/deep)
In Sindhi/Punjabi etc it can also both mean anything from Pressing/Pushing AND Dunking/Drowning/Sinking
7:21
Goose we can Hans
As I was told in school constantly “cad’s a fish”, “cad é” means what! “Céard” and “cén” also mean “what” - Irish is painful! 🙈
'Cad' can mean "what" in other ways though, such as "Cad a tharla?" (What happened?) 😀😉
There's no one direct way to translate "what" from English (and this is true for translating it to many languages), so "cén" for instance usually precedes a noun.
Teachers in school would correct us because you can't say it by itself like we would in English. So, while it may be a non-sensical sentence to just say "Cad", I think in the context of this video, Inés is fine putting cad alone like she did, for single-word comparative purposes 🤓.
[Feel free to shout "neeeerd!" at me]
Benny Lewis haha that’s so weird, I was brought up to say “céard a tharla”! Must be different in different dialects!
I could never understand a bloody word in the Donegal cluastuiscints 😂
Fun fact for ya, @@SciencewithKatie, "céard" is actually originally from "cé an rud" ("what is the thing?"). 😀, but yeah céard is more typically used in Connemara vs cad in Ulster Irish!
To understand Donegal Irish, just imagine you're on a rollercoaster constantly going up and down, and you'll be grand!
Interesting that Ireland come from Éire Land-> Land of aryans like the Arya/Iran for Persia and very common in India this word-root...
I live in North India
And " Cae " also mean what in my Local Tongue ( Dialect of Sanskrit)
That becomes
"Kya" in Hindi devnagari
Script.
Tu = you
I would give my left xxx to be able to go back in time and listen (and record!!) how Latin, ancient Greek, Sanskrit and PIE actually sounded like.
If you want to hear sanskrit, just come to India. There are still a lot of Sanskrit speakers here.
It's very interesting because not only did these have a vast influence in thier area, but on seemingly non related languages and cultures. A good example is Korean, from my research, it seems that modern Korean is a mix of Sino Korean words, Native Korean/paleo siberian words, and words from unrelated language families like Indo European. This also lends more weight to the legends of Indian/Korean blood relations. Some examples are two, plural/dool, foot/bal, father/appa, mother/eomma, there's more but these are just the few that come to mind. Korean is from a different language family, but has influence from both Dravidian, and Indoeuropean languages, in addition to the historical exchanges between it's neighbors/invaders/trade partners.
I've heard of the story of the legendary Korean queen Heo Hwang ok of Indian descent who suppose to have travelled from either (Ayodhya or Ayut),India to Korea.
@@otomackena7610 yes actually that's the story of my Mothers clan. And there's more than a few words we share with Tamil, even some of customs are very similar.
PIE Day should be on August 5th or May 8th. So, today's Pi Day. I'd like to take this one step further... Pie Day on either May 8th or August 5th.
Pi*e = 8.5397. πe... pie...
Which place in the world PIE origin people lived together before they move out on their way?? Any experts idea???
The two best theories are the western steppe (Russia) or Anatolian peninsula (Turkey).
My province in Canada is called PEI (Prince Edward Island) not PIE but close enough.
CA = California. Not Canada. Enjoy!
Muito bom!
The origin of the Russian word gorod (Old Slavonic grad) meaning ‘city’ can also be traced. In ancient Russia and in India the cities were built to serve as forts for protection and defence against aggression from an enemy. The corresponding word in Hindi is gadh which means ‘fort’. In modern Russian the suffix grad and in modern Hindi the suffix gadh are used to form names of cities: such as Leningrad (the city of Lenin), Peterograd (the city of Peter) and Bahadurgarh (the city of the brave).
I am glad the only linguistics i have to follow is Sign Language. Well done on the video, very interesting.
In German dialects there is zwo for two,
or in Berlin they sey ik for ich and it is more similar to proto-Germanic.
I think probably north dialects have older sounds but it's harder to understand north dialects too (Niederdeutsch)
πατερας is "father" in Greek
i dont like greeks
@@Lyle-xc9pg no one cares.
@@Lyle-xc9pg T*rk
@@Lyle-xc9pg and we don't like you:))
@@Lyle-xc9pg thats sad considering you have greek genes...
La pronunciación leyendo el quijote me ha enamorado 😍
cual es tu idioma original? wow
Spanish has been way easier for me than French.
You omitted Finnish from your non indo-european languages?
what's your native language?
French insist upon weird pronunciation.
@@erkkinho finnish isn't an IE Language.
@@joshuddin897 Yes. That was my point. It wasn't included in the category of non IE languages.
Nice
At 8:40 the language spoken sounded awful lot like the language used in far cry primal. Very interesting
Indeed, Dr. Andrew Byrd was the same consultant for the PIE spoken in Far Cry Primal
I wonder what you understand about Calendar words...SEPTember is from latin for 7(when it is the 9th month), OCTober latin for 8 (when it is the 10th month)..etc etc...So. this means we have a calendar which has been changed/shifted ..just sharing knowledge x
This is what I found
wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-did-the-months-of-the-year-get-their-names
Actually, I need to see and hear the way the word for Angle was spoken. I have a suspicion that it is related to the word Angel and I want to see the links. So far, I've been able to find the words, अङ्ग, anga, hang, henge and arc all making connections. Mostly of the geometric type. But when you look into the origins of how circles were constructed using a compass, and the esoteric metaphors associated with it, you can see the connection.
Funny thing is, my language is from the Slavic family but I find more similarities in words from sanskrit here than proto-balto-slavic lol o_O
Slavic and North Indian languages share a common Vedic culture and Sanskriti heritage from ancient era.
@@Zai_Ji Turns out the early PIE speakers into India (I think called Yamnaya) originated in the Ukraine
Ashok Joshi
Yes I’ve read about that hypothesis. It’s very interesting from a cultural and linguistic point of view.
What we need is more effort and funding towards archeological, genetic, and linguistic ventures with scientists from all over Eurasia working together to discover ancient root of PIE and where our common culture and heritage originates.
It's not fair that one person gets to be this smart
חכמה
דעת
בנה
Knowledge wisdom understanding are like Gold! Some are born with it some can chase it or people like me can desperately try cram it in!
As I've found, if you don't have a good filng,filling,fileing....
A system- it's all just a pile of paper that drives you NUTS
It's just being good at research. She didn't discover the things she talks about, just compile available information into an easily understandable summary.
At around 4:00 you did a little mistake as the Greek word means 'Father'
Sigh, I knew this was bound to happen! Thanks for pointing it out. Sadly cannot change the video once it's up, but I'll try to put an annotated card to corrections
Heh! That's funny. I don't understand Greek, but I thought: "Strange, how in Greek "mother" seems to be formed analogous to "Father""
Mother is μητέρα.
@@pierreabbat6157 Or "μήτηρ/meter" (mother) in its original Ionic form, or "μάτηρ/mater" (mother) in its Doric form.
Draw Curiosity Well, the Greek for ‘Yes’ means ‘No’ in Bulgarian and Bulgaria and Greece share a border. Your mistake might be correct after all 😂
Hello. Very strong video. I can tell you think quite quickly. For my part, a little bit of a slower pace would be better. I pause on the text displays to read and they flash just that little bit too quickly. Also, I think maybe a little more impact could be had from the pronunciations with a .1-.25 second gap to allow processing in the ear, even if the main goal is to demonstrate similarity.
German has actually two language groups. Your example featured the main german group "High German". The people in the northern parts of the country (Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, ..) originally belong to the Low German language group. Low German is more similar to the other germanic languages (english, Danish, ..)
Two (engl) - twee (dutch) - zwei (high ger) - Twei (low ger)
I love (engl) - Ik lieve (dutch) - Ich liebe (high ger) - Ik leiwe (low ger)
You didn't mention the Iranic branch of IndoIranian and the BaltoSlavic branch!
No satem languages then?
You say because you didn't watch the whole video
And Albanian. :)
@@almishti btw is albanian centum or satem?
@@almishti Albanians complain a lot . They always fell left out
First of all - I'm really glad you're interested in PIE and did this video! But, in the most benign and benevolent way (of course), I want to mention one drawback of your video. To show the similarity of the languages, you use i.a. modern Greek. To me it's a great mischoice, because modern Greek is a product of more than 1500 years of changes, simplifications and influences of other languages (e.g. Italian and Turkish, if I'm well informed) from ancient Greek. Ancient Greek is a way more close to PIE and represents even more clearly than modern Greek the sound changes you show. Compared to Latin, it also shows the differences in those changes you show, and many others (e.g. ἕπομαι and sequor (PIE *sekʷ-), where the initial 's' becomes and aspiration in Greek and labialized voiceless velar plosive [kʷ] become voiceless bilabial stop [p]). Usage of ancient Greek is even more reasonable if you trace greek words back from PIE in the graphs. Whence it would be a pleasure tu see μήτηρ as mother, τέτταρα (or τέσσαρα in ionic dialect) as four, πούς as foot, κρυμός/κρυός as cold (but it comes from other stem...; what is your source of word γελανδρός?) - and also to hear ancient, not modern Greek (which is different and vague) pronuntiation. To sum up - ancient Greek is more useful. ;)