The Timing Light & Total Ignition Timing (Maximizing PEAK HP & Performance 😎)
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2020
- this is a far more common scenario than you would think, by far the best "performance mod" for an engine is simply a correct tune.
This is the timing light I use: amzn.to/3cvxGzE
Disclaimer: beware of advance timing lights with MSD multispark. they claim that advance lights have issues with multispark systems. it seems to depend on what timing light is being used - just something to be aware of. the one linked above seems to work just fine on multispark in a side by side timing light comparison.
Piston stop for most carb'ed v8 engines: amzn.to/2WrIrgI
True TDC with a Piston stop:
Basically you cant measure true TDC degrees at the crank via observing the piston because the crank continues to rotate as the wrist pin rolls over center and the piston actually momentarily stops (dwells). SO, a piston stop allows you to measure true tdc by stopping the piston somewhere down the stroke. by rotating the engine clockwise until its stops and making a mark, then doing the same counterclockwise, the point in between these two marks is actually true TDC. - Авто та транспорт
giving away all my secrets these days! I hope these vids are helpful, this is the content and info that i wish was out there when i started into all this ten years ago. if it just helps one of y'all, heck its worth it. also, here is the budget advance timing light I have that i used in the video - its served me well: amzn.to/3cvxGzE
I very much appreciate the advice and knowledge you share
I've learned more from you in the past 6 months than I have my entire life. I especially liked your carburetor video series. Dig those Fords!
I’m glad and I hope it helps! Thanks for the positive feedback, it helps to motivate me to keep at it
I’m glad they have been helpful! I still need to go over the holley power valve and Edelbrock enrichment circuits!
It's actually "hard to find" secrets. Your channel is one of the best for classic engine tuning. When are you going to start selling shirts and stickers?
A little known and much overlooked problem with distributors is the gap between the tip of the rotor and the posts in the cap.
This is overlooked because it is impossible to see under normal circumstances.
You need to get a old distributor cap and cut a 1/4 slice out of it. Put that on your distributor and check the gap from a post to the rotor.
You'll be shocked. I recently looked at one and the gap was 0.075", that's twice the plug gap.
That means there is a bigger spark going on in the cap than in the cylinder. Check it out.
I made a new rotor tip from brass and reduced the gap to 0.005".
Less heat, less cap damage, more power to the plugs.
That is some of the smartest info I think I’ve ever heard and never thought about.
You my friend are a dam Genius. I can’t believe I’ve never put any thought in to this concept
Nice! Good looking out with this tip man. Makes a lot of sense to me. I'll have to try it out just to not leave anything on the table that can be had.
Well done Luke, it seems you have this down pat. Lots of good information.
Thanks for sharing.
Awesome stuff! your videos are a huge help in getting my dads 1978 F150 Running again. Its got a 390 with what he called a "hot" cam. Thanks again!
Thanks Luke! Another great informative video. Appreciate you sharing your experience and knowledge.
I'm all for PEAK Performance. Great video Luke!
Thanks for putting out this video. I learned more about timing and using the gun. I have a 63 Falcon. I changed out the Fordomatic with a c4 3speed, because the Fordomatic was bad. I have the original 170, but I've been wanting to put in a 302 and perhaps build it, with guidance from your video you made a few years ago.
I have not been a SBF guy since the early 70's, you got it going on kid. you keep doing this and I will keep watching. thanks for the effort.
Only timing video that truly explains & makes sense. My 455 Oldsmobile thanks you
VERY informative,and I appreciate the demo at the end 🙂
Always great information, I have a 88 F150 4.9l with Obd1, love these old trucks.
Great vid, good info. I saw your disclaimer above about using adjustable timing lights with multi strike ignition systems. You have to click 'show more' to see it though. At least I do on my computer.
Thank you for turning me on to Progression Ignition!
I will be getting one for my old Mustang this summer.
P.S. that old Galaxie is gorgeous.
Great info! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks Luke for all you do my friend in giving me a bit more knowledge than I came here with. I still say that you are super awesome guy 👍 buddy 👌.
David McKinney well I appreciate that - I’m trying to be a super awesome guy - baby steps, I’d classify as an okay guy some days! Thanks again
@@ThunderHead289 you are a nice person and very smart guy so I say you are super awesome guy 👍 buddy..I'm just a okay type of person I guess best suits me.lol.
Cleaver thumb nail with the timing light leads hooked to your ear and hat!
I'm going to attempt to apply these tips to my '58 Plymouth Suburban/wagon to get a bit more MPG out of it. Much appreciated for the videos!
I'm glad to see you back
Started my classic car journey with 2020 with 0 experience in cars. Came a long way thanks for all the info.
Man, have I stumbled onto a gold mine. I love this channel ❤️
thanks mate for what your doing, down in australia we dont get a lot of theses types shows made here. keep up the great work.
Not a lot of trees or shade, so no shadetree mechanics.
I searched your channel yesterday for a timing light video! Perfect timing . Going to recurve my distributor at the weekend
Glad my stuff was of some use! I hope it made sense!
ThunderHead289 always. You explain things really well, I have one question though. If my initial timing is at 12 degrees should I set my timing light to 12 degrees and when it hits the balancer it should show 0 degrees is that correct? Then I would set it to 24 degrees and once my total is all in at say 2800rpm it should show 0 degrees on the balancer? Is that correct ? Sbc 12 initial 36 total at 2800 rpm
When the timing marks line up, that’s when you have whatever degrees is noted on the timing light itself 👍
Excellent video and explanation. This has definitely helped me understand the subject better. Thanks!!
Thundercats! Hooooo!
@@ThunderHead289 🤣🤣
Really good video! I wish you would have explained a little more on the benefits of high octane fuel and the ability to tune your timing for higher compression engines. Most of today's fuels are fairly low octane and with a higher compression engine they really suffer.
That is using the proper amount of washers for that alternator! Great videos...
The worst part is that I actually have the correct spacer in the tool box, but that washer stack is still there 😂
Great work mate 😊
Oi mate, thanks a bunch!
Well, hello! I've been waiting for a new one and here it is.
Very good info, I will look into Progression ignition. Ran duraspark, and with stock HEI modules, MSD and even a Holley Eliminator. The HEI and MSD seemed prettery similar, except the cost. The Holley was noisy, lol old technology. The Engine is a mild stock 1969 429, cammed , with D3 heads, due to valve wear-running Propane, which is hard to light off. Just a single Impco 425, stock intake(weind waiting) in a heavy old 76 F250 Highboy 4x4, 35" tires and sucky 3:55 gears. It runs good though. :-D
Great video! Very helpful!
Thanks so much!
That is a very interesting distributor. I hope they do well and gain popularity.
Great dude too, very knowledgeable.
Was a pleasure meeting him. I love that he’s an underdog, hope he makes some serious waves
awesome videos as always Luke!
Howdy! What are you up to that you were poking around the tubes with total timing? 🤓
@@ThunderHead289 been CNC machining door handles and needing something to keep my mind busy between each cycle and i've torn the motor out of my 383 dodge coronet and am putting it back in with a new carb/distrib/and some goodies and wanted to get it running top notch so I knew where to turn. Your video on ported/manifold vacuum and tuning was very helpful too.
Amazing video! Thank you for your time
That ol truck sounds gooooood!!!!!
This channel gave me all my carburetor engine knowledge. You and junkyard digs made me pull the trigger on a 1972 f150 390 v8 it runs but it needs a whole new wiring harness and all the electrical goodies to be on the road. And a lot of rust needs to turn back to metal haha
Welcome to the fun my friend!
Same issue with my 75 , 360 automatic. Electrical harness, pikin up a 74 manual trans this Friday, would like to know what you think on swapping the 75 to a manual trans , and any vids on the engine control harness, thank you for your time, it saves me so much 💲💲💲💲🛠️🍻
Oh heck yeah brother. You just gained another subscriber
Thank you for the explanation of why total timing in around 3000 rpm is where you want to be and beyond that you do not need more advance because of magical witchcraft :) I have spent years messing with this stuff and never had any one explain the why.
Or little men with hammers beating on your engine !
I didn't pay much attention to the ignition timing curve when I first started playing with cars. It was several years before I realized that you can make an otherwise good combination of parts very disappointing if you don't take the time to tweak and optimize ignition timing. I realized all of this when I hooked my timing light up to a Mustang 5.0 HO and saw the timing curve start at just off idle and increased very quickly. The old Camaro I had at the time barely showed any advance. Come to find out the mechanical advance was frozen! No wonder it felt like stepping in a bucket of mush when I floored it! It felt like power doubled when I fixed it.
Awsome. Thank you
Awesome video.. I needed that explanation. Now I know how to time my son in laws race car correctly.
Thanks now I am more sure of what to do.
Your video really helped 🤙 thanks
That Progression Ignition distributor looks pretty awesome, wished I would of known about it a few years ago when I bought a pertronix for my Cleveland.
What total timing are you running g on your cleveland? I'm new to the cleveland and trying g to get mi e set up with my pertronix flame thrower II distributor
Back in the 70's I had a 70 Mustang fastback with the 302 two barrel. I set the initial timing at 10 degrees before top dead center and filed the stop on the centrifugal advance to get 32 degrees BTDC total without the vacuum advance. Later I pulled a 351W from a 69 Cougar along with the FMX auto and 9" rear and transplanted the drive train to my Mustang effectively giving it a 69 Mustang Mach I drive train. I set the timing the same as the 302 and it was quite peppy. I enjoyed humiliating 6.6L TransAms with that car!
Great video
Thanks for the cool video
Thanks for the positive feedback ☺️
Your the best brother, thanks
Good video my brother
Another great video;
Thanks. Good videos
very well made video
Thanks so very much - I put a lot of effort into my recent ones to help folks understand!
thank you
Luke is it true the bigger the cylinder or cubic inch the more timing a car wants? Thanks great real life content
I took a shot every time you said "leaving power on the table". So now I'm drunk until Independence Day. In the meantime, what's the story on the Galaxie?
Here’s another! Leaving power on the table!!! The question is, would you leave a hot burrito on the table? NAH! Lol
I need to get the galaxie together bad!
Iv had it for ten years, it’s had several different engine trans combos. I probably will stop playing with it after this, was all in good fun before, but I’m old and just want to drive and enjoy my stuff now!
@@ThunderHead289 Again with the your old stuff. I'm twice your age and all I have show for it is being passed out on the table with half a hot burrito hanging out of my mouth and the remnants of the whiskey bottle on the floor being licked up by the cat.
I was talking about the '64 you said you just got.
Awesome video, new sub here. I have my 84 Nissan 720 times wrong. The distributor/oil pump gear is off a tooth and advanced 10 degrees at after being turned to it's max. Seems to be running fine though, and I really don't want to take the front apart again...
How do I know how much total timming I need?
Your video is better than most. Actually explained what it is and how to get find out where it currently is without all the filler. Lol
But would like to see something that goes into setting up an unknown engine.. find and set base timing, adjust carb, and setting total timing to that engine. As you said.. they are different depending on the engine.
And even with better ignition components and different fuel than what was available 50+ years ago. Might have required 5deg timing back in 1949.. but now with better stuff that same engine can run better on 10 or 16.
The best way to find what timing advance the engine needs is to tune it on a dyno. The next best way is to time it on the drag strip or on a deserted back road.
Start at 30 that's a good start then keep creeping up until it makes no more difference then that's it
Here is a tip for you. Need to check the hormonic balancer to make sure the degree alinement hasn't moved. I have seen them slip on the rubber 12 degrees in the passed.
Hi Luke! I need your advise sir. Got the 460 BB Mustang ready to fire up after finding TDC on # 1, marked & cleaned balancer and Installed new MSD timing tape (yes, the correct one 6.75"), hand rotated crank/balancer to 18 degrees (initial-Idle) and dropped in the MSD (non-vacuum advance) billet distributor rotor pointing exactly at # 1. I want 36 deg total. NOW, with my dial back timing light, (same one you use) do I set total at 36 first, or 18 deg idle first? Recurved the Dist. light springs and big black bushing that is supposed to limit 18 deg mechanical advance all in by 2500 rpm. Thanks I appreciate you very much. Subscriber Bob
Thanks Luke .i like how you bring the point home .but getting the highest point will it burn the cylinders up faster? And my 318 has two marks on the hb one all the way across and one half way which is the right one?
Well Daniel, I’d try to verify TDC, that far apart you should at least be able to simply feel the piston with a screwdriver when it’s at the top when one is lined up properly.
The best burn time is about 12-14 degrees ATDC in the chamber, anything later actually burns up the cylinder, earlier can lead to detonation which nobody likes at all
I'm following along with your ignition timing videos. I get that firing too early or too late is leaving power on the table. How do you know the ignition timing is spot on? Butt dyno?
I was told to turn your balancer till your #1 pistion is on TDC and mark the 0 line with white marker paint and the line on the balancer. then take a digital caliper and adjust so the one tip is on the O and the other tip is on the 10 and lock it then take a white or some other color paint markers and measure out 10° s each time and draw a line so you have 20,30,40 lines on the balancer so you can get a more accurate reading with a timing light on stock balancers
Hey Luke.
Do you have to do this all over again if you , for example, change the intake and carb from 2 to 4 barrell?
I'm switching to an HEI distributor for my 1970 Ford. Any insights on the summits or the No Name eBay with the blue cap and wires included?
Funny, I see all these dist. with vacuum adv. I was in H.S. in the late 60's early 70's, lotsa HP cars around. I built a 56 chevy panel van with an olds motor that kept up with very built 350 Camaros. Point being everybody thru out the vacuum advance and curved dist without.
you want vacumm adavnce on the street or anytime you drive part throttle.
race cars dont need it but its all wide open throttle then done.
thats why theyre all mechanical and locked out timing..a no-no for a street car. unless you like sweeping up pistons...
Awesome
I'm starting to believe you are rite even on my tractors that I pull my farmall super m woke up thanks
The electronic dizzy that your buddy made. Is there a Ford V6 model or a model I could use in a Ford V6?
Ive got a 84 171 V6. Ford Ranger. Couldnt find a Ford V6 model so I figured Id ask the master if I could use one in place of it.
a way to build a cheap engine dyno just using basic sensors it may not be computerized but it would at lease show you
the gain you do on the engine enjoyed your video take care oh i want to see that oven in the back to lol
1:57 ay I see that smog pump delete spacer mod
The theft lock would be worth the price alone for a progression ignition distributor.
Nah
Or you could be like me and own the other two kinds of vehicles. Ones no one knows how to drive and ones no one would want
When checking total timing with a timing light, does the distributor vacuum hose need to be disconnected ?
If so from what point, the carburetor or distributor ?
Hey! So, I have a '74 K20. I got it running and driving, but it didn't have much power when I stepped on the gas. I thought I needed to adjust the timing and tweak the carburetor. Somehow it was running in a random order before but i didn’t label when I took the plugs off. So I started with the HEI distributor, set it to top dead center, dropped the distributor in, and put the spark plug wires in the right order. But it's still not running right, even though I know there's spark and it's getting gas. It cranks but won't fire, and now the carb is spitting gas out the top.
I wish the progression ignition distributors had two step rev limiter
I was just watching this good video,my question is Im running a 350 with electronic ignition on a 69 c10 my distributor doesn’t have vacuum advance so in order to adjust a total timing do I disconect the single advance wire to adjusted?
Thanks!
Howdy from pa 🤠
I'd like to know more about vacuum advance, and how to use it under load to get the best performance
Have you released any video on the engine you built with the blower in the background?
Soon
Curious do you have any of those regulator brackets left if so how can I get 1
Cool ending at 15:00 testing out the spark.
I found a conservative timing can help you run the cheap 87 and when you can spring for the 93 you can add 3 to 4 degrees detonation is a big issue for me in Florida we are on the average 40 feet heat soak is also a big issue for me a lot of times I have to keep my timing modest when you stop at a gas station and heat soak put you at 210 degrees the cylinder pressure can get high when you took your Galaxy down south to go to school did you have to pull a little timing? So it would start easier in the afternoon when it was all heat soaked
It did okay per say - I think I had 36 degrees total. I did have to change some things for the conditions down there!
I love the guys that adjust timing by ear🤣😂🤣😂
What bracket do you recommend for a 1406 eddelbrock to connect the throttle cable to the carb. What comes in the box does not work. 69 mustang with a 302 and a C4.
Thinking about redoing suspension on my 1973 ford f100 any info will be helpful
What SC...brand...u running on that I like how the carb..is on top of the SC...
So how is your new distributor from progression ignition? Any problems?
EXCELLENT video! How would I figure out what the total timing should be?
Do you by chance live in North Ga.? LOL
If so I need to stop by
The engine, a 4-cylinder 22RE, on my 89 Toyota pickup got wet, and I had to change the airflow sensor. Although doing that got the truck going again, I might have thrown the timing out while trying to fix it because the idle is still very rough. Can I make the timing better from just adjusting the position of the distributer without necessarily using a timing gun? Another thing is that I think there's too much grease build up on the timing cover and balancer to see a degree setting, or does the gun somehow let you see what's needed even if there's grease buildup covering that area? Thanks.
Thanks Um I don't think you mentioned anything about high altitudes requiring advancing the timing more for those vehicles that live there.
thats the thing, I don't have a full manifold port.... Its a '73 Ford 249 and there is just the ported vacuum port.
So how has the progression distributor worked out? I've contacted the owner a few times with questions and lucky to get a half ass answer
That distributor would come in really handy for those times when your spark plugs are gapped at 1/2 an inch.
Spark plugs firing in OPEN AIR is far different than them firing under hundreds of pounds of pressure.
Never seen sparks looking that gorgeous
Along with leaving timing on the table does this affect idling or inability to start? Or is this strictly affecting horsepower and miles per gallon?
Depends which part of your advance curve is screwed up.
Hi Luke, thanks for the video, can you or anyone else explain this to me plz?
This is the first time I did the timing belt on my '93 Accord. The last time the timing belt/water pump was done by a mechanic about 5 years ago, who has been since retired.
The car was running smoothly, however when I opened up the timing cover, I found the crank pulley was 1 tooth off to the left of the mark where it is supposed to be, the left balancer pulley was about 2 teeth off to the left, and the right balancer pulley was about 6 teeth off to the right. I marked all the belts and pulley location as where they were.
I then set the pulleys and belts to tdc and lined up as per service manual. Put everything back together, and now the car doesn't run like it was before I set the timing belt and pulleys back according the manual, what gives?
Was the old mechanic correct to off set the pulleys in the first place? Should I go with the manual and keep it as is and then adjust it with the "ray" gun and the distributor?
I've everything marked so I can always go back and set as the mechanic did but would prefer to do it as the manufacture intended it so I can learn along the way too.
Thanks.
after seeing your altinator bolt , i know why we have a washer shortage . lol .
Thank you TH289!!! Trying to get my 460 BBF (Carb) engine back in timing to start it. When I pulled the MSD distributor To actuate the oil pump to prime the engine (sat for 2+ years) put everything back just like it was before, now it wont start. Balancer has not TDC mark or tape on it. So i did the finger over #1 spark plug hole until it blew my thumb off the hole. Is that close enough to mark a TDC mark on balancer as long as rotor is very close to #1 position under the cap on #1 wire? Thanks, I don't understand the piston stop thing yet.
You could be as far as 20 degrees off yet, which is a sizable amount. You are but only in the ballpark. You can’t get to true tdc by looking at the piston or anything since the piston dwells before it changes direction in the bore - but if you don’t want to work with a piston stop, just stick a straw in the spark plug hole and continue to turn the engine over by hand - there will be a moment when the straw stops going up (make sure it doesn’t get stuck) and that will put you within 5 degrees or so.
I don’t like doing it that way at all, BUT it will work okay enough.
The car will at least run where you can get it to someone who can use a piston stop
@@ThunderHead289 Thanks you so much. Now that make sense with the straw. Will do that tomorrow and fire that 67 S code bad boy back up. lol Have a great night. Love your channel too. New Sub.
Thanks so much 👍
I corrected my above comment - swells = dwells
Please do a Progression Ignition review. Congratulations on getting married. You do good work with the old school stuff.
Good information on how to use a timing light i have a few different timing lights i have this model you have as well as a digital model have a couple others good video luke brother 👍 @thunderhead289
Thanks so much for always hitting me with that positive feedback - means a lot!
Now if I ever suck, I expect you to tell me!!!
@@ThunderHead289 as a mechanic bro if you were doing something wrong or explaining something wrong bro I will always tell you
7:19 and what happens if while throttling up around 3000-3200-3300 rpm, I can see the line on the balancer retarding itself slightly? Bouncing around is more like it. Chevy 350, GM stock HEI, stock vac advance, using stock weights, however I'm using one strong spring and one medium spring. Everything is dialed in but I get a knocking sound under load. Car has power. Running at a base timing of 14 degrees and total at 36 minus vac advance (note sure what the stock can is putting out, 20?)
I’m running a standard GM HEI (1978 unit) on my 350 olds. I’m only getting 8-10 degrees mechanical advance out of it. Causes me to run 22 initial just make it to 30 total timing in by 3k rpm. I’ve had the distributor apart, cleaned all grease out and made sure everything is freely moving and still the same issue. Any ideas or is it just a smog era distributor and I should be looking for a replacement? I’ve also tried the Moroso recurve kit and didn’t do anything for my mechanical advance . Thanks
My brother has a 1978 Olds 350 swapped in his 1983 Grand Prix. I'm thinking your mechanic advance is limited to that 8-10 degrees because of being a late 70s smog era engine. Also these late 70s gas 350 Olds run 20 degrees of initial timing, so that extra 10 degrees puts you at 30 plus probably an extra 16-20 degrees on your vacuum advance. You'll have to read up more on Oldsmobile engines. I'm not for sure if they just don't need the extra advance that other conventional v8s of the era did. Oldsmobile v8s had a flatter piston to valve angle of 6degrees, which helped make them cleaner burning amongst other things. A conventional SBC has a valve to piston angle of 23degrees. Also Oldsmobile combustion chambers are a bit different. I haven't been around them much yet. Mostly worked on Chevys and Pontiac v8s.
Great video! Do you think 20 degrees btdc base timing is too much on a 331 stroker with aluminum heads?
LOL
There is no way of knowing.
Too many variables.
I have a 1984 ford f250 I believe a 302 with a 1405 edelbrock carb. I can't seem to get it to go past 45mph in 4th gear. Would correcting the timing help with it? It goes faster in 3rd gear. When I shift into 4th it drops power and speed. Any advice is appreciated.