Winter Chicken Watering System - No cleaning, easy to fill, cheap, and efficient

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  • Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
  • Are you sick of cleaning out those traditional water dispensers? For years when I was a kid my least favorite part about having chickens was that I had to go out in the cold and clean out their water dispenser and even though we had it on a hot plate it seemed to freeze anyway. Check out this watering system from the SSLFamlyDad that addresses these issues and saves money on energy.
    I have tried different things with either watering systems for the chickens and had mixed results. Although I am probably not done experimenting with different ideas this is the latest:) This system is made of a small 2 gallon Coleman cooler and a few PVC fittings and small sections of pipe.
    I started by removing the spigot that comes installed in the cooler. You can then use a 1/2" male and 1/2" female threaded PVC adapter to connect through where the spigot was. I would recommend using some silicone around the fittings to ensure a good seal.
    On the inside of the cooler glue in a 1/2" street 90 and point it upward. This will allow some water to always stay in the bottom of the system so that the heater does not burn up. Next, on the outside or the cooler, you can attach any configuration of piping and the chicken nipples that you would like but I chose a basic spilt setup.
    I attached a short piece of pipe to the outside 1/2" fitting and then a tee. One short piece of pipe on each side of the tee with a cap on one side and a 90 on the other. On the side with the 90 I ran that up to another 90 at the same height as I want the highest water level to be in the cooler. This will hopefully prevent overfilling from the outside. This section will be run out through the coop wall so that I can fill it from the outside.
    For the chicken drippers you can size up a small bolt that matches the thread size of the drippers for pre-threading the holes. I used an 11/32" drill bit to drill one hole in each side of the pipe coming out of the tee on the bottom. You can then thread in the appropriate sized bolt and back out to create some threads to start the plastic drippers. Use some silicone or thread sealant and thread in the drippers, one on each side.
    The last things is to mount the 50 watt aquarium heater to the bottom using the included suction cup. I also put a dab of silicone on the suction cup to hold it down firmly to the bottom. I also cut a small notch in the lid threads on the cooler to feed out the cord for the heater as well.
    You are now ready to install it in the coop. I made a small shelf for mine inside the coop for the winter but I am not sure if I will continue to keep the system inside the coop as it tends to make a mess. I will update on that later. I routed my fill pipe out the back wall of he coop and places a small threaded fitting there so I can attach a homemade PVC funnel to it for filling. You could also omit this step and just open the lid and pour in some water that way as well.
    Once you are all setup you can just plug in the aquarium heater to electric however you can (extension cord, hardwired electric box, etc). I also use what is called a thermostatic electric outlet in my setup. This outlet only powers on the heater when the temp reaches 32 degrees or below and stays on until it gets up to 44 and then shuts off. This prevents me from heating water when it is warm outside and thus saving on electric costs. I have used this same outlet for a heat lamp in the past and it works great.
    All you need for this project below -
    2 Gal cooler - amzn.to/1MsHgAY
    5 Gallon cooler - amzn.to/1QyXBZ5
    ThermoCube outlet - tinyurl.com/qz5...
    Chicken Drippers - amzn.to/1uQ8PIM
    50 watt heater - amzn.to/1KZrfp9
    All of these products and more recommended items from the SSL Family are available at the Simple Suburban Living
    General Store - astore.amazon.c...
    Please check us out at www.simplesuburbanliving.com
    and follow us on....
    / simplesuburban
    / simplesuburbanliving
    / simplesuburban5
    / simplesuburbanliving

КОМЕНТАРІ • 102

  • @terrywivey6596
    @terrywivey6596 8 років тому +6

    First I must thank you for serving our country. l found your chanel about a month ago and my wife and I can not stop watching. We are really hooked. You know so much and do so much for a man of your age. We really enjoy your chanel. Keep up the job.

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому +1

      +Terry W Ivey Thanks! that means a lot and I am glad to have you aboard!

  • @grahamrdyer6322
    @grahamrdyer6322 8 років тому +13

    This is the best idea on the tube, Thanks. God be with you.

  • @donaldmiller8629
    @donaldmiller8629 5 років тому +3

    I have a 55 gallon barrel inside of my coop . It is filled with rain water and snow melt from the roof of the coop. It feeds to a 5 gallon bucket which is filled by a float valve. My chickens seem to prefer the cup type of system. I think that they like to drink rather than sip the water . I have a seed starting heat mat attached to the back side ( in the corner ) of the barrel. It's plugged into a thermostatic outlet as you displayed. So far it has not frozen. Because of the volume of water ? I live in northeast Ohio. It fills automatically from the roof and has never run out of water. In fact , with all of the excess rain that I've had this year the barrel has over filled several times. The overflow goes outside and spills into watering bowls outside. So, my chickens often have multiple sources of water . This also provides water for birds , bees and butterflies.

  • @lisarobinson4303
    @lisarobinson4303 7 років тому +2

    Most Excellent! Refreshing- Love the scripture- love the filming, always catching the details of the construction & assembly. Not too long or drawn out. Thanks & God bless you richly!

  • @timpedzinski230
    @timpedzinski230 6 років тому +8

    The answer to your freezing problem is to keep the water moving. My system has a small fountain pump from Harbor Freight to circulate the water through the pipe,and back to the tank. I have a larger tank so it needs less maintenance.

  • @whisperingsage
    @whisperingsage 6 років тому +2

    Beautifully simple!! I live in the cold winter mountains w short growing season and have my chickens in a cabover camper, which I insulated but the wood is falling off the outside and chickens are squishing the fiberglass insulation down, so looking at foam creting the whole outside and I love your watering system. I will give it a try.

  • @oldguysrock2170
    @oldguysrock2170 6 років тому +2

    That thermostat plug connector is a great product.

  • @josephvogel7234
    @josephvogel7234 Рік тому

    I live in South Texas and we have just the opposite problem. The challenge is to keep the chickens from getting over heated. The water can get hot and I have enlisted a larger igloo ice chest to use as my holding tank. It is in a supply closet that is part of our coop. There is a water drain built into the cooler already and pvc pipe is largely routed inside the coop and to the area of run that is under it to prevent exposure to the heat from sun.

  • @dave_6391
    @dave_6391 8 років тому +1

    You have really given me some GREAT Ideas and this is another 1. Thanks for sharing.

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому +1

      Thanks, I has been working pretty well so far. I did move it outside to try it that way since they make a mess inside the coop with it.

    • @dave_6391
      @dave_6391 8 років тому

      +SSLFamilyDad Can you tell me a few things. I know that here where I live it is a 5$ application fee and a 150.00 yearly permit fee for the chickens (No matter how many I have) but it is just me and my wife and we would like some boiler chickens and eggs for the morning. Do you think the price is worth it?

  • @Charlotte_TSilva
    @Charlotte_TSilva 8 років тому

    Very very nice. Even the chikies agreed. Blessings to all.

  • @ericskelton8109
    @ericskelton8109 7 років тому +8

    Hey SSL:
    Great video. What a blessing to see the scripture verse at the end. Praise God you are living out your family in Jesus Christ. Saw your wedding picture on your channel page. I too am an Army vet. Served from 83 to 86. Hooah Airborne!

  • @MrRain-hk4zi
    @MrRain-hk4zi 7 років тому +1

    Nice work, nice video. We just built our coop so now working on "user friendly" means of feed, water and cleaning thanks.

  • @johnmarshall8175
    @johnmarshall8175 4 роки тому

    Again thank you...Valued information...im about to start my own operation...i enjoy your tips...👍👍👍👍

  • @FlannelAcres
    @FlannelAcres 9 років тому

    Great idea! I'll be waiting to see how it works out.

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  9 років тому

      +Flannel Acres I will do a follow up for sure, thanks for checking it out!

  • @bubba8876
    @bubba8876 7 років тому +2

    A bird bath heater has a built in thermostat and would probably be more rugged than your fish tank heater. Wrapping your pipes with heat tape under the insulation might help too.

  • @lilbitatatime3763
    @lilbitatatime3763 9 років тому

    Very nice design. Convenient that you didn't have to drill a larger hole in the cooler. In another video they used a Terracotta pot (for safety) inside the cooler and placed the fish tank heater inside it so it wouldn't be next to the plastic interior and would always stay submerged. We're still hauling water outside for the heated fountains. Perhaps one day *sighing* Wishing you success with your new water system.

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  9 років тому

      +LilBit AtATime Thanks! That is a good idea as well since we like to stay away from plastics also as much as possible. Thanks for watching!

  • @jeanettewaverly2590
    @jeanettewaverly2590 8 років тому +1

    That's a clever design!

  • @Justgolden
    @Justgolden 3 роки тому

    This video was great. How the hell do people even down vote this ? LOL. Cheers. Nice work.

  • @rebeccagleason2678
    @rebeccagleason2678 7 років тому +2

    This is a good idea - I will keep this in mind. I am looking for a Solar type of heating to heat the coup and the water. I don't want to use Electricity?

  • @mrdiyguy123
    @mrdiyguy123 4 роки тому +1

    Great video. At 9:37, instead of installing and removing a cap and then installing and removing a funnel, why don't you just turn the funnel down when not filling it? is it for heat loss purposes you want a cap on it? or preventing flys from getting in?

  • @rgonzalez43230
    @rgonzalez43230 6 років тому +4

    I enjoyed your video. How has this system held up? Any issues throughout the winter?

  • @ryanlevron1972
    @ryanlevron1972 Рік тому

    I can clearly see how you set up the overflow system and how the chickens are getting fresh water from the little drippers....... What I don't say is your inlet pipping feeding the bucket

  • @tomsargent2237
    @tomsargent2237 5 років тому +1

    The weakest part of any of these heated waterers is the steel ball and stem in the nipple, and trying to get good water nipples that don't leak from the start. But this is a good small watering system.

  • @limekoolaid5083
    @limekoolaid5083 6 років тому +1

    What a great system will it work in -40 °c in canada

  • @duckdarkness2642
    @duckdarkness2642 6 років тому +1

    Great video thank u, from a beginner, have a question, I was told not to use insulation in my coop because ofites is that true. Thank u again

  • @Larry342516
    @Larry342516 7 років тому +1

    Great ideal. Thanks

  • @CoyoteRidge
    @CoyoteRidge 5 років тому

    Great idea !

  • @amandaavins9815
    @amandaavins9815 8 років тому

    you are a genius!

  • @kurtisgirdwood6262
    @kurtisgirdwood6262 3 роки тому

    I'm going to copy your ideas. I think they are great. Debating though, my winter may be too cold. Did this work out well. Just curious what Temps it could keep things thawed out.
    Watched your pig waterer video as well. Awesome. Designing my version for the spring!

  • @Moving2U
    @Moving2U 8 років тому +1

    Great innovation! Question, most chickens will destroy any kind of insulation. How did you do in that regard?

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +Moving2U them didn't bother the insulation, it is mostly wrapped in tape anyway but they didn't seem to bother it

  • @shelee4652
    @shelee4652 8 років тому

    love this!!

  • @NorthernMontanaHomestead
    @NorthernMontanaHomestead 3 роки тому +1

    Is this still working? Where I live we get phases of -20 and I'm wondering if this would still work.

  • @amandaavins9815
    @amandaavins9815 8 років тому +1

    my only take in this invention is the outside portion of the water feeder will freeze.

  • @lerussophileut
    @lerussophileut 3 роки тому

    Very Smart setup, i will use it. My only concern is the chicken pecking on your pipe insulation. It needs to be protected, maybe with electric tape simply?

  • @jason4547
    @jason4547 3 роки тому

    Im pretty sure ive I've seen you on TV before... Have you ever been interviewed by Date Lines Chris Hanson ?

  • @ladygaladriel9197
    @ladygaladriel9197 3 роки тому

    Omg Shia LaBeouf i didnt knoe u do home improvement projects ha

  • @spockmcoyissmart961
    @spockmcoyissmart961 8 років тому

    I should think the warm water will rise via convection up your fill pipe to help keep it from freezing, the cooler water will sink to the bottom of the tank and cycle over and over. You may wish to insulate the fill pipe too?

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +SpockMcoy Issmart i insulated the fill pipe too but i am thinking about a larger setup with a very small circulation pump to keep the water moving might help also

    • @spockmcoyissmart961
      @spockmcoyissmart961 8 років тому

      SSLFamilyDad
      well, moving water won't freeze, ;)

  • @dontbanmebrodontbanme5403
    @dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 8 місяців тому

    So is the waterer inside the coop? That's what it looks like. I don't like that at all. Even in the best case scenario, you have water spilling into their coop. If that thing ever leaks, it's going to leak inside the coop. Finally, that tank is small, so it'll require you constantly filling it up.
    My solution:
    * I got a 55 gallon food grade rain barrel I had laying around. I paid $11 for it for another project, then never used it. I bought it from a car wash. I painted it black with a can of paint I had lying around.
    * I put a 500W heater in it. It only turns on when the water is about to freeze, so it's not costing me a ton of money.
    * I drilled two holes in it, one on top of the other near the bottom, put bulkhead fittings in each, then attached pvc male garden hose connecters to each.
    * I attached washing machine hoses to each, a small pump (important) to the outlet washing machine hose, then attached a 4 foot long, 1" pvc pipe to the pump. That pipe is then put inside the run, where I attach nipples to it for my 8 ladies to drink
    * I then attach the other washing machine hose to the other end of the pipe. Obviously, I use whatever bushings, etc., to make the connectors work throughout.
    What does this get me
    The pump is plugged into an outlet that I have set to turn on at 37F and turn off at 41F. Even though I heat the water in the 55 gallon barrel, the water will freeze first in the 1" pvc pipe, which is why I make sure the water circulates, constantly brining in new warm water into it. 55 gallons for 8 hens? If I did nothing else, I might have to fill that up with a garden hose maybe 3 times a year. However, I'm in the middle of adding gutters to me coop (should have that done tomorrow) and having them drain into the barrel so that I'll never have to even fill it up. The only thing I'll have to do is throw a 1/4 cup of chlorine in the barrel once a year.
    The less I have to do, the better. 55 gallon drums at the stores are going to be $100 or more, so search, search, search! Look on eBay. I was able to find a bunch for $10 a while back for another project from a company using them for molasses. You want to make sure it was either storing food, or soap, or something where you can drink out of it after.

  • @gauchopower5222
    @gauchopower5222 4 роки тому

    EXCELLENT

  • @georgesimpson3113
    @georgesimpson3113 4 роки тому

    Nice. Keep in mind you put the teflon tape on backwards... ;)

    • @neustif
      @neustif 4 роки тому +1

      No, he put the tape the right way

  • @PermacultureHomestead
    @PermacultureHomestead 9 років тому

    2 questions that don't relate to the water. How cold does your area get in winter, and what do you do for your chickens when it gets that cold? can they handle the cold? Wanted to add, I really miss your subscription, hope you decide to come back....

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  9 років тому +2

      +Permaculture Prepper Well consider it done man, subscribed:) Again:) Last year was the coldest it has been in many years and it was down to -30 with wind chills and sustained below 10 degrees F. I am not expecting that cold this year but need to prepare for anything. Last year I used a heat lamp connected to that thermocube outlet which worked really well. Tis year I am going to see how they do without the heat lamp and just with the added insulation. I am told that they can survive just fine without the extra heat, just out of the cold and wind so we will see how they do I guess. If it gets super cold I will probably break down and put the heat lamp back out there though.

    • @PermacultureHomestead
      @PermacultureHomestead 9 років тому

      Really appreciate the support, love your work and am grateful for the reply and sub.

  • @mnthunting5337
    @mnthunting5337 9 років тому +2

    cool gadget...
    let us know it works,
    cheers..

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  9 років тому

      +MNT HUNTING Will do, I have my fingers crossed:) Supposed to be 17 degrees F here on Sunday.

  • @whisperingsage
    @whisperingsage 6 років тому

    Heat tape on the pipes too.

  • @Michelle-hg3sv
    @Michelle-hg3sv 8 років тому

    Hi there, just wondering how this has turned out so far. Really love the videos and great ideas.

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому +2

      So far it has worked great. I don't like the way it fills though, takes to long and I have to hold the jug of water up at head level while I pour it in. I will need to think of something different for that.

  • @sweetlovetiger
    @sweetlovetiger 8 років тому

    Its a good idea. How do you vent your coop in the winter? its been a while since I seen your videos I been busy but looking forward on checking out more of your videos. Hope all is well the family god bless

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      All is well over here man, thanks for asking. I just leave the door open all day to clear the air and there are lots of cracks along the ceiling for ventalation

    • @sweetlovetiger
      @sweetlovetiger 8 років тому

      +SSLFamilyDad thank you for telling me I been thinking of getting some chickens but where I live not sure if I can if I did I make a chicken coop where if I had to move I could take it with me if I make it and stuff I'll send you a link to see it. But I mite steal some of your ideas

  • @arthurtmorgan4211
    @arthurtmorgan4211 3 роки тому

    Hey Fam Dad, how does this hold up or your opinion would this hold up to -20F when I can throw boiling water in the air and it turns to snow. Doesn’t happen a lot… the longest it was that cold was 3 almost 4 weeks.

  • @whisperingsage
    @whisperingsage 6 років тому

    Now making one for the rabbits, so I can get 60 trace minerals and lithium to them.

  • @grotlek
    @grotlek 9 років тому

    This is a great idea. I have been thinking of something similar for another purpose. Been trying to find a decent 12 or 24V water heater for a tank I'm using between a sump tank and the fish tank (this makes sense in my aquaponic design) and having no luck, they all seem to want 230V (mains supply voltage over here), apart from cheap "cup warmer" style heaters from China that apparently break quickly. I was going to insulate a 30L box but this makes more sense, I hadn't seen these insulated plastic water tanks before.
    By the way, since you're using a thermostatic plug for the heater, do you think insulating outside the coop rather than inside would be better? This would allow the pipe to radiate some of its heat and warm the chicken coop a bit. It wouldn't be that much, but every little bit helps, especially if the temperature in the coop drops below freezing point - the chickens would move nearer the heat source and may survive longer.
    Silly question, doesn't this soak the chickens as you're filling it, due to the fill funnel being above the level of the hole you cut for the power cord? (Sealing around the cord slit might help prevent this leakage, or if you ever make another, drilling a hole for the cord and re-wiring the plug to it rather than cutting a slit for it might help).

    • @grotlek
      @grotlek 9 років тому

      Ignore my suggested solution to the problem of soaking the chickens -- sealing the wire would create an air pocket at the top of the container which would cause it to fill much slower -- just realised that when I switched back to this tab. Hmm, now I'm wondering how to fix that without lowering the fill level of the tank. I guess it's perhaps easier just to be careful when filling lol.

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +grotlek I setup the fill to the tank just below the level of that notch for the cord. Even with the "funnel" on it doesn't seem to have enough pressure with the inch of head to force any water out that spot. the lid seals around it pretty well.

  • @FrancineRossoni
    @FrancineRossoni 8 років тому

    Awesome idea! How much electricity does the submersible heating tube use? I would love to try this but my husband was concerned about energy usage if it was going off and on frequently. Many thanks!!!

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +Francine Rossoni it is only a 50 watt heater so about the cost of two led light bulbs

    • @FrancineRossoni
      @FrancineRossoni 8 років тому

      +SSLFamilyDad Thanks for the info

  • @jeanst-jean6586
    @jeanst-jean6586 7 років тому

    how did you isolate your hen house and with witch materials?

  • @laurabunyard8562
    @laurabunyard8562 7 років тому

    I carried a tea kettle of boiling water to the chickens, goats and cows.

  • @judyjudyjudy9593
    @judyjudyjudy9593 7 років тому

    One guy was saying he wasn't going to use the water nipples because his egg production went down, he felt because his chickens didn't get enough water. Do you think that is true?

  • @nolaparton-jones8932
    @nolaparton-jones8932 4 роки тому

    FYI they WILL use it as a roost!! They use anything they can as a roost!!! Good luck!!

  • @brendastomberg2593
    @brendastomberg2593 7 років тому

    If you have a heat lamp to keep coop above 32 degree would you need to worry about freezing? would you even need the heater?

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  7 років тому +1

      +Brenda Stomberg if it were in the coop and you kept it above freezing you probably would not need the heat inside

  • @cf8959
    @cf8959 7 років тому

    She's giving you a "what-for", isn't she?

  • @cabwaldo
    @cabwaldo 8 років тому +1

    The chickens don't eat the piping insulation?

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +cabwaldo it is pretty ridged insulation so they don't mess with it

    • @cabwaldo
      @cabwaldo 8 років тому

      Oh, well I know my birds like to eat anything made of foam or silicone.

  • @윤석렬-n8r
    @윤석렬-n8r 4 роки тому

    How can I get it. Red eating water stuff ??

  • @mollevej30
    @mollevej30 4 роки тому

    How to clean for bacteria?

  • @UTBOY03
    @UTBOY03 8 років тому

    wont the heater explode if the water runs out

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +Angel Flores the water outlet is 1 inch off of the bottom so the heater will remain submerged. Also, those heaters turn off when over a certain temp

    • @UTBOY03
      @UTBOY03 8 років тому

      SSLFamilyDad oh ok

  • @bugzziee
    @bugzziee 6 років тому

    Could u put that heater in a dish pan?

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  6 років тому

      +s buchanan yes but might want to wrap or cover it somehow

    • @bugzziee
      @bugzziee 6 років тому

      with?and thanx

  • @bugzziee
    @bugzziee 6 років тому +1

    Ur chickens don't pull the insulation out? Mine did. Grrrr

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  6 років тому

      +s buchanan yes, I covered with plastic after this video:)

    • @bugzziee
      @bugzziee 6 років тому

      u cover ur insulation w plastic. i don't get it, how will that save it?

  • @johnmawk
    @johnmawk 8 років тому

    If you don't mind me making a suggestion for future builds...I have used swamp cooler floats in my chicken water buckets for years. They are water level is adjustable. you can bury the water supply hose or line to keep from freezing. You will never have to manually fill a chicken waterer again. Something similar to this one www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-x-1-8-in-Evaporative-Cooler-MPT-x-FPT-Bronze-Float-Valve-4180/100148398?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D26P-AirCirculation%7c&gclid=CPOsqu702soCFZFgfgodFzUJcA&gclsrc=aw.ds

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      Great idea, I have something similar to this planned for this spring

  • @Jessie-sp4sq
    @Jessie-sp4sq 8 років тому

    did this work?

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  8 років тому

      +Jessie Moore yes and no, I did a follow up video on this to explain but ours froze at the tee and cracked the pipe. Others have had great success with it though. I am planning a new all season water system this summer

  • @babslyheathbar7308
    @babslyheathbar7308 4 роки тому

    You have a gutter. Use rain water.

  • @rickmelto6750
    @rickmelto6750 2 роки тому

    That will fall as soon as you add water .its flimsy

  • @karenploransky1323
    @karenploransky1323 6 років тому

    Maybe you should delete this - I didn't see your NEW POST ABOUT HOW THIS DIDN'T WORK until AFTER I ALREADY PAID FOR EVERYTHING AND WASTED MY TIME AND MONEY--NOT COOL, WAY NOT COOL

    • @SSLFamilyDad
      @SSLFamilyDad  6 років тому

      +Karen Ploransky the idea actually did work as I mentioned in the follow up. Just use a smaller piece of off in the front or attach the nipples directly into the bottom of the cooler

    • @karenploransky1323
      @karenploransky1323 6 років тому

      Once you said it didn't work I turned it off--good to know, thanks!

  • @TheMushyButt
    @TheMushyButt 7 років тому +4

    Separate the over flow/ fill to the top of the cooler so there won't be water in the pipe all the time that doesn't drain.