Why the Marvel Rivals Scoreboard is Meaningless
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
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I know what you are thinking. "This is round 2 of the Overwatch Fire Meter Video." Or, maybe you have never seen that. Honestly it wouldn't be suprising if you haven't It's actually been a long time since that video came out, and despite it having been really popular, it doesn't get views anymore today. But the topic is more relevant than ever, especially with Season 1 of Marvel Rivals being a hit right now.
It's actually really sad to see how things have evolved. Back in the day, Overwatch1 players understood these stats were absolutely meaningless trash, but with the advent of Overwatch 2 and these stats being made public view, they latched onto it as it was the only way they had to compare each other. Even sadder is that the only time fire ever gets brought up, people treat it like it is synonymous with these stats or worse somehow, despite it being vastly different and so much better.
I love that Marvel Rivals has an MVP system, but it's calculation is really bad. I'll address that in the the next Marvel Rivals video. There's a foreshadow for you if you bother to read my descriptions! I hope you'll spread this and my other videos around as we talk about really important stuff here, and any attention helps.
Forgive the massive list of hashtags. I'll do anything to be reuinted with my family, and this is just part of how UA-cam works.
#marvelrivals #scoreboard #analysis #overwatch #guide #news #patch #update #6v6 #5v5 #rant #designphilosophy #gaming #playeragency #roleq #roleque #openque #openq #videoessay #funny #blizzardentertainment #nerf #rework #season14 #mothmeta #tierlist #politics #netease #setomarry #setomarie #setomary #bunny #t500 #top500 #proplayer #future #controversy #politics #new #marvel #rivals #clasic #moth #mothmeta #midseason #drama #flats #jay3 #ow2 #overwatch2 #ow #humantorch #thething #season1 #season2 #rant #angry #funny #meme #spotlight #pvp #15 #dracula #update #character #release #releasedate #characters #character #new #newhero #announcements #announcment #hot
Damage blocked is actually a really useful stat. Only it’s only useful on players who have no way to block damage because it shows exactly how much damage they’re taking.
So next time your moon knight complains about no heals you can see how much healing they actually got VIA damage taken - 250*deaths or just say it’s alot
Thats.... A really good fucking point
He could have used health packs also if you get healed after the enemy team is down it is also meaningless you have enough time to get to a health pack...
@@ShinseiX Health packs are unlikely to make that much difference. You'll probably get a couple thousand healing max from them over the course of a match, and that's assuming you're a character that gets them often. 5-10 packs is probably the upper limit of what one player can expect to pick up in a normal match, and each one does a max of 300 healing (150 instant, 150 over time interrupted by taking damage, and less if they don't have that much missing health which almost no one will)
ive been doing this since the game launched and no one except my stack seems to understand this. if you have 4 deaths (widow for example) and 1350 damage blocked you’ve received 350 healing from either supports or health packs in 3 minutes. only time i start flaming supports personally
@@Jahsaywhat The other half of that equation is how much damage you are actually taking. If you're sitting at full health most of the time and then get burst down there's not much a healer could do.
The scoreboard isn't meaningless but it's also not the full picture.
Nope, meaningless. Not a zilch of meaning.
Absolutely devoid of meaning.
No meaning whatsoever.
The scoreboard tells the truth, it just doesn't give the answer.
The answer requires interpreting all the data together. There is no simple formula for putting that data together either, although I expect it's something an AI would be VERY good at.
the scoreboard is maybe 64x64 pixels of a picture on a 4K monitor
I disagree about your take on deaths. The two best ways to carry on strategists are ult management and lowest deaths. You provide zero value if you're dead. Now, you're right there are some exceptions depending on the situation and character, but you can easily tell which team won off the scoreboard by whatever strategists had the least deaths. However, I do generally agree with the sentiment that people need to unbind the scoreboard and pay more attention to the game itself to see what the problem is. Nice Halo music btw.
Similar to assists, high heals and high assists generally means you were topping off your DPS as well as pumping your Mag/Thor combo for that second point push on Klyntar.
Spiderman can have double the deaths of their next teammate and still be carrying the team. It only works for him because he's so fast. On some maps he can go from spawn room to enemy spawn room in 3 seconds. Watching high elo Spidey players is mesmerizing!
"But I have the highest healing!" If you've spent 3 minutes respawning, and you're dead every fight, there's no healing being done for us in crucial moments. This leads to us losing team fight after team fight.
@@XDak0_0 THis is absolutely insane lol. Spiderman is such a weird character, the man's actually palying a different game lol
Nah dying when ur team gets wiped is meaningless better to die with the gang then run away like a scrub. If ur not dying ur not trying to
A mark twain quote comes to mind. "There are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
This problem will never change. Hardstuck players focus on stats good players focus on winning its thats simple
Exactly. Gold and below obsess over stats and how difficult a hero is to play(they think it's cheating to play an "easy" hero for some reason), but are incapable of understanding that high elo players are there because of a few different independent variables: little to no ego(for the most part), proper positioning, and not dying do dumb shit without achieving something. Can have the best aim in the world, but it won't mean anything if you are just stat farming, never help to take objectives, or spend the whole match hitting the vanguard with 3 pocket healers, etc, etc.
But the team with the better stats almost always wins so stats can’t be meaningless.
@@skilz1980 weak mental explains that tbh
@@WhiteJackale-ei1dn I'm a bit stuck in silver 2 only because I have no real desire to keep playing competitive, every other match is just flaming and blaming, oooh I just wanna shank a box of puppies it makes me too mad to care about competitive
@@skilz1980 had plenty of matches where the enemy team had an average of 32-10-5 but failed to even bother with the objective like the hill or the convoy, all the cared about was KOs and typing in "GG heal diff" when all they had to do was get to the objective! Take that KO getting energy on the damned objective!
ive had so many games, where my team had 5 times the elims combined and still lost the game. the only thing that matters, is wether or not you can stop the enemies from capturing the objective, or help your team not lose the objective. If that means hiding behind a wall holding point, but not getting any kills and really low damage, youve still contributed a lot. because the threat to the enemies isnt the number that shows up on the scoreboard, but the number that WOULD show up, if the enemies dont respect your threat
Mad respect of objective oriented teammates
This "stats don't matter" mindset is just lazy thinking. What if one of your players has 0 damage and 0 healing at the end of the game? Are you saying they could have somehow been a useful player via intangibles in that extreme circumstance? Surely even you would agree that's impossible.
I just got out of a game where one dps had 31 elims and the other on the team had 9. Again, this gap is too huge to be bridged by intangibles. We obviously know the player with 9 elims wasn't doing as much for the team as the player with 31.
You can paint even clearer pictures if you look at damage and finals, and compare to expected values for the heroes being played. If someone is way below or above, you can use context to determine if that's a good or bad thing.
@@DevinDTV even that 31 vs 9 isn’t as straight forward as you say.
I’ve had teammates flame me (when we’re winning) for having low elims and moderate damage on tank.
What they didn’t realize is that I was pressuring the supports, burning their cool downs and forcing them to retreat and then peeling back to our supports.
Support characters have small health pools so I ended around just 6-7k damage, and I would only go for the kill if I knew I’d secure it, so I had like 8 elims. But the whole game I only got Bannered twice.
Meanwhile, my pressuring the supports and keeping ours alive is what enabled my DPS to get their 20+ kills.
“The scoreboard doesn’t matter” isn’t (supposed to be) lazy thinking, it’s recognizing that sometimes the right play is antithetical to what the scoreboard encourages you to do.
@Kintaku yep. The game isn't about playing to kills or damage or heals it's about playing to time. Uninterrupted time in play completing the objective.
Kills are one of the most effective facilitators of time management since time players spent dead is more time you can push to objectives because it leaves the enemy in a weaker position.
But generally speaking, the board only tells part of the story.
Like a good example. Using a tank like hulk straight out of the gate to sit in front of the convoy.
On avg positioning there at the start of the fight gives cover but it also stops the convey from moving at all and forces the enemy to come to you to get the ball rolling.
Now you will have to fall back a little bit as they push forward, but in this example you easily burn 20+ secs on the clock that are basically free.
So it's less time for the enemy to complete the objective.
You add in a ton of tiny micro increment time saves on top of other management depending on team comp etc. And all characters have their own things they can do to increase this value.
You can easily burn time the opposing team now has to double down on to try and make up, which leads to disadvantages for them.
Playing to the objective and developing skills to play to time is king.
@ I’ve never heard it described so completely in relation to time, but this is a really good way to look at it
3 things that help the team get the win that the stats don't show. 1, hanging back to protect the backline from dive characters and only after the backline is safe does the frontline go for the full push. 2, knowing when to retreat and regroup so you aren't just feeding the enemy team ult charge. And 3, playing on point when you have the advantage so you can speed up the progress bar.
This is funny, because stats are absolutely helpful here.
1: You should be able to keep up good damage on most heroes even when hanging back to protect the backline. You can check how much damage a good player does in a similar situation and compare it to your own to see if your uptime is too low, thereby using stats to find flaws in your play.
2: Knowing when to retreat is reflected in your deaths and damage (uptime).
3: Unless you're hard-rolling the enemy team and have to afk on cart to push it, you shouldn't be sacrificing uptime to sit on point very much. So this one is mostly irrelevant, except in the opposite (and all-too-common) case of players basically going afk between fights to sit on point instead of pushing up and controlling space.
As a person often playing Flank heroes I run into this issue often. I flank the backline, maybe I dont get the kill but now both supports are distracted with me, maybe a tank or dps as well. So I could be distracting 3 people, allowing my team the space to push on them as they now lack resources. If my team only shoots and elims the people I'm not pressuring, then I get no Elims if my targets survive and because I'm attacking the backline who has less HP and are harder to hit than the frontline I'm also racking up less damage as well. On the scoreboard everyone else may be 20-6 but If im 14-2 with maybe 2-4k less damage, if we start losing they'll blame me or ask me to switch off. The scoreboard can't show that the reason they're getting so many kills is because I'm keeping their healers busy, or by forcing peel they dont have a tank or dps to counter push my team. The scoreboard can't show that I baited out Mantis sleep, Luna Freeze, C&D bubble and fade, Warlock tether, Loki Rune, etc.. or in some cases even ultimates, all things they would've been able to use against my team. It is much easier to just play a flanker with the team and pad my stats and then place blame on someone else.
And I'm normally not even the one being blamed, but the few times I am it's dumb af because my team is only doing so well because I'm essentially turning a 6v6 into a 5v4 or 5v3 every fight by pressuring the backline. I wish they'd at least add objective time as a stat or something.
Honestly an interesting stat would be something like "spotlight" for DPS players, where the game tracks how much attention you have on you, how many people are focusing on you, for how long, and if possible damage dealt vs damage taken while being looked at. It'd be hard af to program, but idk, something like that could be another way to show potential value. The scoreboard isnt completely useless but people need to stop acting like its the whole picture when it wasn't. It's a team game, and everyone could technically be doing something different to get a W, instead of always looking for 1 player to offload blame onto.
for flank heros i look at final hits nad just eye test from playing in the game
I played Thor once, and I was consistently pulling 2-4 enemies' attention at a time, killing at least one of them, and I didn't even die half the time. Yet that team was SO bad they were losing the 2v5 against Strange and Squirrel
I agree with this but a lot people will say to more not care about the KOs but more on being on obj and winning. A lot of people said this when playing xdefiant and people complain about people going for the kills and not doing obj
I main Magik and trying out Captain America, I feel this in my bones with you, the Punisher with the endless pit for brains is dying just as often as I am but only taking a vanguard and a duelist with him says I'm trash but only got those two kills because I was harassing their Luna and C&D long enough for it to happen
So many words for coping. Look guys i distract 3 guys guess what i can play iron man and distract everyone you are just bad stop shifting blame
I always say the only way to get the full picture is to go back and watch the replay and see where things went wrong. I've been validated too many times by doing this. The scoreboard gives some info but never the fine details. As soon as I saw that you can get credit for an elim by shooting someone once, I knew it was chalked.
People who snipe kills but dont deal damage to help, people who heal only one guy, people who go one for one kd can all pat their stats and "out do" someone playing smart.
100%
And I've gotten comments that say "oh, they don't do this! nobody quotes the scoreboard" I have yet to find a rank where they don't quote the scoreboard, and I've been to almost all of them.
@@setomarie as a vanguard. All people do is quote kills. They never appreciate the bullets I absorb or the healers I kill or distract from the main fight. They just see kills and all want a Vanguard to DPS carry. While they stay happy in the back line sniping all the low health kills. Don't get me started on bad vanguards.
3:07 Funnily enough I just got out of a game where a Magneto complained about my assists, lmao. First time I heard that complaint as support.
People focus on everything but themselves 🤦♂️🤦♂️
ima be so honest the scoreboards is a super valuable tool if you know how to read it. you can easily read how your friends game went when they send a screenshot of a loss where they felt they did good lol.
One stat I'd like to see on the Rivals scoreboard is Saves.
Basically, it's the amount of times you likely saved your teammates. This can be roughly calculated a few different ways: like healing a teammate right before they take damage that would have otherwise killed them, blocking a lethal amount of damage that would have otherwise hit a teammate (like Magneto bubble), and killing/interrupting an opponent during their ult that would have likely killed nearby teammates.
Revives would be nice too for us Rocket and Adam players.
I gotta disagree in the last part, imagine if an adam ults and the entire team dies again
Objective contest time, zoning the enemies out/back, combining ults, countering ults, ganking the backline, sacrificing yourself for the good of the team, revives. All things that are super important to winning and not represented in stats at all. Its crazy that even in diamond/grandmaster people can only think the stats matter and wonder why they lose with high stats or trash talk teammates about it.
Exaactlyyy
The craziest part about high level players still holding the scoreboard in such high regard is that all of those things you just mentioned only get MORE important the higher level your match is, making the scoreboard EVEN WORSE at said level of play. While I don't hate the idea of trying to measure player worth, its a bit distresssing that this innacurate version of said attempt has become the norm.
None of these things guarantee any value to your team other than countering ultra, whereas getting an elim or final hit puts your team at a statistical advantage or evens playing field. Not dying prevents your team from being at a disadvantage. Assists show that you are actively healing in a fight and more times than not granting someone a larger window to kill an enemy. Not to mention doing all these things well should %90 of the time result in higher elims, final hits, assists and damage while having lower deaths.
@@JP-ns8nkit’s like basketball, you can do so many important things that don’t show up on the box score
Deaths is the most important statistic. The most important thing in every class shooter is being alive. Even a bad sniper has more value than a good one that’s dead because he still CAN control a sight line with his presence. You win by surviving. That’s how 95% of every interaction in all game modes works. A Cap with no 2 kills 0 deaths is probably going to be better than one that gets 9 more kills & dies 6 more times because his existence as a distraction & shield is more valuable than a kill if no one’s around to keep the team from getting shredded.
I usually only care about W/L ratio but so many times, I would join in the final 10 seconds of a quick match and lose.
Backfilling just to have a "Defeat" screen before you can leave spawn or even spawn in at all is such a tragedy
There needs to be an objective stat too that rewards players for capping/pushing/defending the objective. It should also be the stat that's most heavily considered for mvp/svp
clicked for the rivals content, stayed for the bunny
I'll tell Oink she has a fan
HER NAME IS OINK?
@@NonJohns Yesss!
I once fed my neighbors bunny to my pet snake
@@Nisowyd stop trying to be edgy online
as an objective focused player it would be nice if they did display objective time and a on fire system simular to Overwatch 1 would be good to
still in disbelief neither game has obj time currently
it's hard to believe that SPLATOON has a more meaningful scoreboard system, even though it's a more "casual" type game. It factors in how long you held objective or the distance you pushed it (depending on the mode). "MVP" or top of the scoreboard is typically the person who contributed most to the objective. You also get special recognition for taking the most space in enemy territory, using your ult effectively, getting the most assists, etc.
Just because there are ways to intentionally manipulate the scoreboard to look like you did better than reality does not mean the stats mean nothing. Financial documents and credit score can be deceiving too, but I certainly don't think they are meaningless. If a Spiderman player did half the damage of other dps, died more, and got less elims. I don't care what you say, they are trash.
This is basically like you saying Income is meaningless because you also have to see savings rate, expense ratio, inflation, and investments. Well yeah, income does not tell the whole story about a person's finances, but its certainly very meaningful.
@Konta-vy2og so out of all the things I said, you selectively challenged one small part in isolation. I literally said if they don't do much damage, dies more, and few kills, that makes them bad. Not just the lack of damage
It's easy to argue against both damage and Elims though if you have the game sense and experience to know what you're talking about. Death's sure, it doesnt paint a whole picture but if someone is dying a lot without seeming to do much else then yeah some questions will start popping up.
@@tigerfalco stats rarely tell the whole story. But it is a good place to start and can help you narrow down the problem. To say that damage, Eliminations, deaths, last hits, accuracy, and damage blocked are collective meaningless is just clickbait
And what of all his kills were healers and that's the reason your team gained ground? And of you didn't gain any ground then you're the problem
@@OriginalHitman21 I can't see realistically how a diver that kills the supports have less kills than everyone else and still did a good job, you need to suppose that he killed the 2 healers multiple times (died soon after) and that the supports were so slow that he could respawn and block their way again.
no its not the full picture but if i see someone on my team with 22 deaths the picture is going to have a big red arrow pointing at it as to explain the loss. especially when the rest of the team has only 10-12 deaths.
I've always agreed with the scoreboard being misleading. Great video bro
Thank you
imagine not showing how many people you actually saved from low hp and how many people you let die at low hp
My main (rocket’s) most important stat revives doesn’t even show on the scoreboard
It's even worse than that for poor rocket. Rocket might have the *worst* throughput healing of any support in Rivals, he makes up for it by being essentially unkillable with a good pilot, but people don't see that in the scorecards, all they see is that hard 60 hp/s healing cap per target, and rocket's team has to get *really* clumped up for him to heal more than one person at a time.
I love that the footage is Moon Knight gameplay because of his ability to pepper everyone then run away to avoid dying. Beautiful foreshadowing.
just as any school score system, is imposible to actually write down the acomplishment of each individual with a single number, and theres many things to trick the system but not bein really competent
I thought eliminations are based on how much damage you dealt relative to the health that was lost of the enemies until they got killed, meaning the one who did the most damage to them before they got killed would be given the elimination.
This. Which is why "last hit" is a stat in the end screen scoreboard.
If you dealt damage to a character and he died (without being healed) then you get a kill, that's the reason a team can have 3 kills while the enemy had just one guy who died.
well articulated points. However I have found that the ones who complain the most have almost always been the ones who have the least damage done, kills, final blows, and they are telling everyone else how much they suck
As a tactician main, mostly loki if we wanna go into details, I usually have a kda that would be in the wet dreams of dps mains. But thats not because I farm it.
Thats because if I die, we out one healer, the other healer lost some of their backline protection, the tanks lost their invinicibillity pop up and our dps lost the quick 2 hit burst to full.
Which can usually change the tide of a battle.
if u played even one round where noone looked at the scoreboard wed have a way better time playing
6:46 timestamp for rabbit.
Oink-cam
Threw out a like for the rabbit. I am also a bun dad.
The stat I've wanted in Overwatch for years is "Damage to elims". This would show who is actually doing valuable damage and who is charging their support ults
One of the biggest stats I usually looked at in Overwatch was "Objective Time." Sure there were ways to game it, but those usually required contesting the objective so you kind of accidentally helped the team anyway. And, it was normal for the flankers to have a low objective time, which was perfectly fine. But, as someone who usually played a frontliner who was meant to be fighting for the objective, that stat was the main thing I'd glance at to see how I was doing. Rivals doesn't include that and, like you explain, the stats they do show only have a tiny sliver of the actual game represented.
The scoreboard isn't exactly MEANINGLESS but people definitely quote it as gospel lmao. I was solo support for a team full of DPS and kept getting dived by venom and Iron Fist and my team had the AUDACITY to complain about healing numbers while four of them spent five minutes trying to kill a Spiderman somewhere in the next zip code and the other one kept shooting into enemy spawn.
Not sure what rank you are, sounds low because of your teammates being unable to aim.
But if you want to get GM+ On Support ( Main Racoon, Warlord, Invis)
You need to avoid egoing, find the play maker in your team, the guy popping off, killing people ,even if he dies lets say 2 kills after, and you need to watch him.
Follow them (not too much) But ensure they get away, even with some risk to your own safety, or secure the kill by healing them;
an example in low elo is healers ignoring the ironfists, psylockes, wintersoldiers, starlords who are ulting, when in fact the ENTIRE enemy team is going to be looking at that starlord, or hiding, or that ironfist, they ALL turn to kill them. If you chase your dps down, (run ahead of ur tanks ,to get a few 1 or 2 heals/shield (Invis woman) off on your ulting ironfist, or starlord, it will LITERALLY carry the game all the wayh to GM, even in GM i find other healers not doing this properly, never leaving the tank, spamming the tanks and only dps close to them.
But if you do this, your teamamtes who're playhing dive CANT play the game, you're disabling them.
Follow this ruleset and i gaurentee you a bit of time and youll be gm+
pinging would've probably helped, I need to use it more
I don't normally comment on videos, but I want to for this one because it's relevant to my experience with the game, and by extension, the trend I'm seeing as far as interesting counterpoints being made in the comments. I'm seeing a lot of "Well, surely a bunch of deaths on one player is bad." or "If a certain character of a certain playstyle isn't cranking up a certain stat, they must not be doing much."
But those points are really easy to contest when you flip the situation on it's head and ask "What if the winning team has objectively 'worse' stats than the other team?" What then?
I've won a bunch of games at this point where my team collectively managed a K/D just barely over 1.0, and I've had plenty of games where the other team is, as far as the stats are concerned, getting smoked, but it doesn't matter because they're still keeping us off the point and running down the clock enough times.
Someone might say "you shouldn't be losing if your stats are so good, or you're unintentionally just padding your stats by being involved in bad fights", but that's kind of the issue? My Hawkeye can "pop off" and go 30/4 or something, but then "mysteriously" isn't around whenever we're teamfighting on the objective, which shows they're just mooching off the team without really helping us push the cart. Meanwhile in another match, my two healers can be 0/9 and 3/7 respectively with less heals than the enemy team, but can still be crucial to our victory with the heals and ults they do get out. These are just two of many examples of the types of games I've had.
At that point, the issue isn't if people could pad their stats out if they wanted to or not, but that if such stat bloat can exist per how the scoreboard works, then a ton of doubt on what the stats can tell you has to constantly be applied. For me at least, seeing that in my games told me this wasn't a real metric I could trust.
(None of this is getting into games where teams are evenly matched and having prolonged fights, and now BOTH teams have very pumped up stats, such that you can't glean anything beyond 'Well, they must have fought for a long time until someone lost.', which is different but related symptom of how the scoreboard works.)
This is really well said.
The only thing I can even think to add is that the people you mention who protest that the scoreboard is accurate sometimes or should be accurate are completely missing the point. Obviously the scoreboard CAN be accurate, like it should be obvious that many many games have the carry players with higher stats, and the players doing poorly with lower stats, but the fact WHATSOEVER that this isn't always the case, is the wrench in the system. The issue is that unless you literally go back and analyze the game with the replay system, there isn't a way to understand whether the scoreboard was accurate this match or not (and even then you are biased). The primary problems are both in that the scoreboard is innacurate in way too many scenarios, as well as able to be interpreted howerver people want.
Again, really well said
the most straightforward example of the losing team having better stats is healers. its very common for a healer on the losing team to have way more healing than the winning team. i know its not exactly revolutionary to say that if you're team takes more damage, then there is more damage to heal, but it's important to keep in mind. the losing healer having 2x the healing of the other team doesn't necessarily tell you that they did "good" or "bad." all it tells you is that their team isn't being effective.
It's very difficult NOT to look at the scoreboard, because when you barely understand anything about what's going on and why you're winning/losing, it's only NATURAL to turn to the only thing you think doesn't lie - NUMBERS.
You are actually completely right about this. This is why I am a huge advocate for improving the scoreboard, which I will talk about a loooot more in the sequel to this video (not out yet)
Clicked for the title stayed for the danganronpa and 100% OJ music
I think you are genuinly the first person to catch the 100% OJ on this channel
@@setomarie I played 100% OJ and didn't even catch it lmao
6:31 i'm a DPS rocket raccon main and i wanna tell you something that won us the match, there was a moonknight in a hard to reach spot, all the team was fine they didnt need heals so i went up and killed the moonknight, the best part about this is that he had an ult so i basically killed him when he was gonna ult saving atleast 2 people instead of just heal botting
This is the exact kind of play that both wins you the game, and the scoreboard will never ever thank you for properly. Esp on support, that elim means nothing to anyone looking at it. But it's the exact attitude and creativity I want MY supports to have
Damage blocked isn't just the damage you BLOCK, it's also the damage taken as well.
The scoreboard is only there to tell me that our Black Panther is 2 and 19 and should probably switch
I consistently have lower dmg than everyone else when I play Magik cuz my combos don't need to do billions of dmg to get 1 kill. A typical combo does 270 dmg. Meanwhile, my team flexing all their dmg number while having 3x my death count, half my final blows, and no kill streak.
Yeah. People don’t understand burst vs sustained damage
Lowkey the best way to see who was doing good or not is at the end of the game when you watch all the highlights. Maybe ult usage too. Also I think damage is a better metric for tanks, final hits for dps, and deaths for supports. If I see a dps with a ton of damage but no final hits it looks like a problem, when I see a tank with a lot of damage blocked but no damage being dealt it looks like a problem, when I see a support with double the deaths of everyone it’s a problem, but this could also be cause of the dive which still means there’s a problem the team needs to adapt around.
I hate scoreboard hunters but I hate profile hunters much more.
People who look at profiles specifically to shittalk. It's like scoreboard hunters turned up to 11.
Truly embarrassing and pathetic.
Honestly, very real. The problems with the scoreboard often get exacerbated in profiles, especially given that matches often have different paces, and at least the scoreboard is only taking numbers from a match where everyone is in that same match. Taking the averages from every match is generally widely innacurate, at least with stats like damage, elims, and healing.
It's very telling that most people who "profile hunt" haven't come to terms with the fact they are in the same rank as the person they are looking at
Had a cloak that did 40k healing over the match. Objectively good, right? Well, as the Magneto holding the front line and knowing they were directly behind me, there were several times where i did not get focused healing and spent upwards of several seconds at low hp which led to several deaths. As a magneto solo tanking, i depend on that healing because i cannot escape and am the only barrier between the enemy team killing mine. I ended the match with 22 kills and ten deaths, with more damage and final hits than even my dps. Still, i didnt understand why we couldn't win that. Every time i died, the frontline collapsed. Upon reviewing the footage, i could see my cloak shooting daggers into the enemy team, trying to heal random distant targets, and not using their walls correctly. Luna was her co healer, which meant she shouldve taken care of our further positioned dps.
The enemy team wasnt running dive characters, so they werent exactly getting focused. In fact, the reason they healed so much was because of the deathball brawls on point with their ults. Outside of that, their heals were very sporadic, and i made sure to pay attention to my health bar to see if they were healing me. My health was not ping pong balling as usual in team fights, but going down and staying there for extended periods of time. I didn't flame my teammates for that, but i did grumble about it because i could see as support how i couldve played that differently.
Maybe they were getting dived in the back line tho, if you random stop getting heals take a look back and see if you need to peel for your supports.
@@Nisowyd how are they getting dove if enemy team isn't running dive? Did you even read the comment?
I’ve gotten called out for deaths but people forget strategists are basically target #1
I say this all the time to my friends who are scoreboard watchers. The scoreboard is used by (bad) players to tell whatever story they want to. The stats can fit any narrative you want to come up with. If you have the most damage, you can say "look at my damage!" never mind the fact that all you're doing is shooting at the tank. If you have the most heals, you can say "look at my healing!" never mind that all you're doing is heal botting.
Also, I never really considered the old on fire system of Overwatch. I didn't realize it was such a good indicator of team contribution. I remember them taking it away at the start of OW2 and then adding it back a few seasons later. I never really even notice it anymore when I do play Overwatch. Perhaps Rivals can come up with something better like a super meter telling you how super of a hero you're being!
100% The first half of this comment is genuinly how the scoreboard is used by almost everyone, and people act like saying so is a lie, for some reason.
I think most people are in the same boat with the second half! Fire was a really easy feature to overlook, and even Blizzard didn't see much in it, but they accidentally made a really accurate measurment for player worth, and then treated it like it was trash. To be completely fair, Rivals DOES have this feature to some extent, with ACE and MVP, but their calculation is worse, which is a big deal. Even Overwatch 2 made changes to the original fire meter when they brought it back for OW2 and now it's less accurate than it used to be. I should probably address all of this in the future again
I love supports with no deaths that farm the tank for 20k heals but somehow we never push point.
As a solo tank player, thank you for saying it. I main Magneto, so i can protect us from big splashes, not every little bit of chip damage. Being a hard to kill nuisance, im trying to pressure enemies, take space, and force fights, but at times it just seems like people dont capitalize on that. My supports do everything they can to keep me alive, but my dps are on the otherside of the map doing 1v1s.
This shouldn't be called, "Why the Marvel Rivals Scoreboard is Meaningless". This should be called, "Why Video Game Scoreboards are Meaningless".
Certain stats on the scoreboard are really good to look at for people playing certain characters. Assassin characters like Ironfist, Spider-Man, Black Panther, etc should have a lot of final hits. That's their entire job. I do agree with a lot of your takes, like looking at normal elims is meaningless as, like you said, Scarlet Witch sucking someone for 20 damage and then sucking someone else for 20 damage isn't her actually doing anything. The scoreboard is almost always terrible to look at but there are some stats that correspond well with a portion of characters.
You passing the health pack at 2:17 made me laugh. Why did you run past it?
He’s trying to give his Luna extra ult charge. It’s a good idea when you’re out of the fight and don’t need the pack immediately.
"Need healing" theres a magic and a spiderman behind us bud how bout we need some protection
The biggest problem with Rivals (and others like Overwatch) is that the tutorial mode doesn't cover 80% of what you need to know to improve.
Concepts like making space, high ground vs low ground, areas of interest, main vs off-tanks, how to distribute your healing, when to commit to a push, etc. are never demonstrated or taught to the player even in quick play, so everyone has to go trial-by-fire in ranked. When you're losing a game, the scoreboard is the only thing you have to follow, and most often it encourages losing teams to start pointing fingers at each other.
Also, there are few cases where the scoreboard is useful. (The Ace marker + Deaths are the most important), as they can help you decide who to pressure, but it's usually distracting at ranks beyond silver.
God, this video really tested my patience. Kept waiting for MIT till the very end.
Adam Warlock dies twice if he uses his respawn, same with Mantis and Starlord. I also find people running away from the fight to avoid dying do the most damage to a play.
Wow, amazing video, girl. Really glad you spent so much time making it. I guess my 2 19 Moon Knight was contesting the point and giving all the value to their team this whole time. Good to know!😮
As someone who has played an uncomfortable amount of league of legends
There are a lot of metrics in league, like an absurd amount you can look at endgame that frankly dwarfs anything players would ever reasonably comb through, and more importantly, many of them are VERY meaningful in measuring contributions when they're not being manipulated and are in a standard game, with some observations like poke mages always having inflated values on damage (because they can throw out a lot of meaningless damage).
However, from good players time and time again, you'll hear that many metrics are fake and don't matter with two exceptions.
1. Gold, which there is no equivalent of in hero shooters.
2. The win screen.
The sheer number of people I see in the official discord server quoting stats baffles me.
The dude who made this video definitely got grilled for throwing matches 😂😂😂
Thank you for calling out my bad stats interpretation
I revise my statements to exclude only you. I trust your judgement
At 9:06 as a tank main you don't know how many times I've heard that because I'm 0-4 that's why we're losing. Because it's like you said they so focused on how many kills I have when in fact I'm the reason we're pushing the point and getting the cart to move because I'm diving in actually doing what the Tank is and the other tank on my team is supposed to be doing. But I get the blame because everybody else get pics and I'm the one sacrificing myself for the team but I'm the reason we're losing because they're based solely on how many kills I have or don't have smh....
meaningless is exaggerated but i agree with your hyperbele in spirit
This is just next level cope.
Just comes across like "The numbers aren't perfect, therefore me instalocking a 4th dps and getting the lowest damage isn't me throwing. Everyone else is just bad"
I'd argue pvz gw2 scoreboard is pretty good,
It places whoever did the best at the very top of the scoreboard
It shows a very accurate measurement of how many kills someone got
Their vanquishing system works on both normal and shared vanquished but shared vanquishes only count when the person did the MOST amount of damage to a player
Thus still getting a kill credit because you put in the work
It shows the exact amount of healing and how many assists you got which is granted to whoever did the least amount of damage to a target
It's honestly so perfect
It even shows k/d ratio pretty accurately and it'll show how long your kill streak lasted before you died
Truly shows who did the best on their team
Most of the time you can SEE the players costing your team value, like a Peni who doesnt understand webs and nest, or that one Iron Fist tgat continues to pick 3v1s
The main one that bothers me sometimes is healing, because heal ults can massively inflate that value without actually bringing that much worth sometimes (for example a Cloak and Dagger solo ulting into 6 people when the rest of the team is dead) and that throws off the numbers really hard.
How else can I flame chat as Rocket with my 30k heals?
6:36 ratchet mowing down Hulk every time
Pretty good points, but I think the better framing of the scoreboard is how to discern meaning from it. Because there is plenty of useful info to get from it. And the use of it comes from what heroes peole are playing and knowing what is happening during your matches to correlate with the scoreboard's data. So good points with pointing out where people get things wrong and what the misconceptions are, but would be cool if you madea vid showing how to learn from the scoreboard effectively
Scoreboards are useful, cranky players are meaningless.
I call people who focus on it a slur "Scoreboard Merchant"
It can be better to die as raccoon on some maps because it resets brb and he can travel back to point so fast plus throw brb far through the air. Best map is probably that one where you have to cap the point first to escort the sludge. If on defense dying there after a brb resurrects can get another brb near point every 10-15 sec instead of 45 sec.
Another spot is that map with defensive choke at start then guide through city (not midtown). The 2nd point under bridge can be a good place to die to get more brbs right near fight.
It's often better in these places to have tanky people on point constantly or a dps in the fight than the missed 10 sec of healing.
This is exactly the kind of in-depth thinking that both wins games and gets punished by the scoreboard.
(also the kind of big brain-tech im stealing, ty friend)
@setomarie yeah, not only that, but if you are going to try to do this on these maps it allows you to be more aggressive when you decide it's time to suicide. So don't just go kill yourself but try to really get into the fight at that point and shoot down an enemy from close range (he does good damage when in harms way). Maybe not only you get the no consequence suicide but you might also be able tp get a kill too.
just bare in mind people, if someone with 30 kills at the end of the game calls you trash... Look at their finals hits i bet its no more than 10
The way the Moonknight is being played is killing me.
I may be a psychopath, but I actually care about my accuracy stat. I probably should attack key destructables more, but other than that it's a very good metric for knowing how well I'm playing relative to myself at that given game. I play Luna with a total average accuracy of 48%. If I'm hitting around 55-60% in game, I know that at least mechanically I'm doing pretty well and I also want to see this number going up over time as I play more. Combine that knowledge with looking at my deaths and healing/damage to make sure I'm not doing way worse than average in those areas of course. Deaths are probably most important for me, especially when I look at them compared to my teammates/other supports. If I'm dying more often then they are, that's very bad.
There are LOTS of different factors to consider when looking at the scoreboard numbers, so you can never really make hard rules especially about who on the team is doing the worst. However, it's VERY easy to see when someone has an outsized positive or negative impact on the game, when all of their numbers together tell a story of either carrying or feeding. Also looking at their hero choice compared to the numbers of course.
Did you get flamed too many times lmfao
What I've learned is that regardless of what you do, Jeff will always be MVP instead of you. 😄
The scoreboard is 10x better than ow2 cus it hides enemy and teamplayers numbers during the match and shows only after
So, as your Black Widow, I know I have 0 kills, 27 deaths and 200 damage but let me link you this video I found to show why those stats matter. In fact, I might even be carrying the team right now for all you know.
Not the scoreboard fault is the players that look at it the wrong way
What makes healing more irrelevant is that supports that can heal themselves also add to that number, so anytime, let's say Jeff is underground or popping a bubble on himself, that number is increasing
Coming from a gm player and a former ow top 500 player, something I picked up from support on how to solo carry with insanely high winrates as sup.
Something to add about the heal bot comment a lot of players get wrong: Healing can not kill enemies. Therfor, healing is a stalling mechanic. It removes your personal agency from the fight. In order to climb you have to control the match with your own agency. Meaning, you need to find picks. If you think about it too, healers are limited by role of 2-3. Meaning u will always have 2-3 healers per team. So if you set yourself apart from the other 2 healers on the enemy team who are just healing and "stalling" the fights, and you contribute to securing kills, you will win significantly more by getting 1 pick in a fight than a dps would if they killed 4 enemies. Basically, because you have a "job" to do, and if you do some extra shit along with it, that is how to retake agency in your role.
This is precisely the attitude you need on support in order to carry. It's baffling how hard people push against this mindset and favor their supp just having the highest heal stat possible. I do love when my support keeps me up through something crazy, but I always appreciate supp's looking for all of the value they can get, not just keeping me or my teammates at 100% constantly
Healing might not kill enemies, but switching over to cloak sure as fuck will.
yes I always am trying to look for ways to make changes to fights with cooldowns or damage. However being in gold right now holy do my teammates not ever use cover and just facetank all the enemy team's damage. Then tanks asking why they aren't getting healed when they are sitting in the open being shot by 4-6 people and the other support and myself had to defend each-other from a dive so the second we stop spamming healing into them they died.
@@kmac6530it's frustrating, yes, but this also applies to the enemy team. Even more since your team has 1 less random fsctor.
I like this attitude and on support I try to get as much damage/kill value plays as I can while also healing as much as possible.
I think healbotting is definitely not a good way to play at all, it's not fun, and it isn't as valuable as actually switching between heals and DMG, but some people seem to not even know when to do damage, and when to heal at all. Especially flex players, and especially in lower ranks. Im climbing and this goes for a lot of people below diamond, even in gm3 where I am.
There are also times where you are placed with teammates who don't enable you to do more than just healing and actually want to be healbotted. These are some of the most infuriating teammates.
Solo que is just a complete mess, that's why Im going to party with some friends instead of randoms.
As a support man healing teammates is very important because if they are low on health they're easy to kill. Focusing on the numbers isn't important if you're getting no healing in a game you're doing something wrong. You should be getting high amount of healing because if your team isn't taking damage your enemy team is doing something wrong. If you're not doing other things such as chipping opponents or making space with disruptive abilities such as the ones Sue has you aren't doing your job. Sue is a good example she can boop and enemy away nullifying damage all together. Also feel free to give feedback on this comment
I’d argue that the ace system is actually accurate and based off impact rather than stats reminds me of the on fire system
Worst part of the scoreboard is when you wanna tell your Wanda that they’re throwing, but they’re 26 and 13 so they’re “doing well” this game pads your stats like no other and it just lead to people having bigger egos than they should. I am trying to help the team, I am not trying to badmouth you, but no one will understand that.
Counterpoint, if you're looking for which teammate to blame on a scoreboard, it's almost certainly you. Players with actual awareness know exactly where the breakdown was without needing a score board because they were paying attention. And they usually focus on what they could have done differently, and a lot less on who to blame. Bad players prioritize blaming others.
You know I haven't thought about it but you're right more info on what happened and why the team won or lost would help
God, don’t scare me like that. I know “IT LIES” is obviously clickbait, but with all the other shady stuff rivals does like adding bots in quickplay, and allegedly rigging matchmaking, I wouldn’t put lying about player statistics past them.
Remove damage blocked, remove healing, remove damage.
Add fire system, add players saved (wherever a player survives fatal damage because of shield or recent healing) add back objective meters or capture contribution or smth, hell add a time saved from any movespeed ups or teleports that save people a commute. Whatever you add people are gonna look at it and find a reason to blame anyone else.
Also add the hero unique stats like revives with rocket or assists with rockets ult
Actively looking at the scoreboard to see what the team can improve on is the method.
Had a conversation about the scoreboard and KDA vs Objective based scoring a few days ago. Came away convinced that the best system would be to take global averages with each hero for a player to compare to instead compared to the rest of the roster. So many lil differences between heroes that make comparisons difficult. Invis Woman and Rocket can heal a whole team that's lined up which will rack up more and faster, as an example.
I'm sure huge flaws would reveal themselves with this system as well but if everyone on a team can see everyone was below average on that hero, maybe they'd be more willing to STFU instead of blame game.
Ran a silver comp match solo. 5 bots filled my team.
30 matches later, still in silver. Still getting bots, throwers, and bad players. Had a Jeff killing his own team for laughs. He said "im platinum and just felt like farming." And cheaters.
If skins are the main earned rewards, they are far too expensive.
This game has some serious problems. The hype is exaggerated. Much like Destiny 2 trials of Osiris.
Ppl swear they need to be at full health to function. Then there's those captain america mains who dive the back line with 300 hp left. Love those guys. Ud be surprised at how many kills I get while almost dying instead of running away and begging for heals
A very pleasant, time conscientious video. You didn't waste my time - so I'll like the video. It means a lot to me.
Thanks.
Thanks for the like! I'm getting some flame for leaving some things out, so I'm glad someone appreciated the video's brevity
so my 2-17 punisher with 40,000 damage is actually carrying im just a fool
I would say the ACE system is the replacement of the fire system. If you are constantly doing good and actively making plays like using ults well, healing teammates/doing damage and drawing fire away from your team, you will be ace
Is it as good as the old fire system, no because its only one person, but just because you have more kills or damage or healing or damage block doesn't mean you then will get MVP/ACE, so it must be something else other then pure stats
pretty good video n brings up good points, i think the scoreboard at times can only give fragments of info
Precisely. I'll go more in depth on what is left out in a future video
nice guide on how to throw the match while being blame-free
Is the “Ace” on the character doing well not similar to the on fire stat?
Can it lie me into Gold iii for two seconds? I just want the f***ing skin dammit