First comment - join the Academy! OK - as an engineer by trade, I have told Stanton he should get an honorary degree just for his understanding and teaching of ergonomics. I got a lot from this video! I see photos of me playing and it looks like I am choking my match grip. Turns out, I may be ok! It's Tony Williams grip! 😊 First I've ever heard that but it is what I do (maybe too much). GREAT video Stanton - I usually cringe when drummers start talking physics, but you got it down! Appreciate ya!
Hi Uncle Stan, I was Matched for Most of the start then Through Jazz Studies with a Teacher in my Area I learnt Traditional Grip got the best of me Due to my set up using the Todd Suchermann ride angle I really had it to an art.. but in Sunday Seat Traditional is where it's at for me..
Thanks! You have answered a question regarding the traditional left hand posture. I always wondered why at times the great jazzers held their hand so high when they performed. When you explain this, it seems so embarrassingly obvious.
Stanton, the knowledge you give us drummers is highly valuable. I’m a big fan of COC. You brought a whole new sound to the band on arms of god. Stonebreaker rhythm was mind blowing.
I am totally in sync with you on this. I can’t use just one or the other, I need the grip that will allow me to execute the technique I want to use. I find when I’m comping or playing behind guys, it’s trad. When I’m soloing, it’s usually matched. Even then it’s not always that rigid. Awesome insight as always.
Thank you for this, Stanton! I also found that switching between grips helps for different musical purposes. Power vs nuance, etc. Thanks for going into detail. Any chance of a video further demonstrating the Tony Williams grip as you showed?
I had 2 teachers as a youngster, one drumset, he used traditional grip and taught that both are important. Other teacher taught rudimentary/theory, he was a match grip person. Luckily I have learned both and now at 56, I still use both. The usual story, match grip for power and traditional for regular/delicate work.
Here's the rub though. Playing "as good as matched" on the kit traditional grip is optimized by angling the drums to ergonomically match the resting stick angle. This way there's the same (or more) power & mobility. I play for a country artist, so my traditional grip works very well for that genre.
When I started playing professionally years ago, I played matched grip exclusively. Now, these days I use both. My snare is angled away from me slightly.
I use both but often get frustrated that I can’t get the same sped as matched grip when using traditional grip. Any videos on push pull for traditional grip?
Great question! In general, I use my signature stick from Vic Firth, which is a slightly thinner, but slightly longer 5A with a pinpointed tip for clearer articulation. That being said when I am swinging out or playing in a lighter context, I use the AJ6 which has a similar body to my sig stick, but has a drastically tapered shoulder with a tiny tip. When I play the AJ6, I almost exclusively play traditional grip. I hope that helps!🙌🏼
Everything you do when drumming counts and makes a difference. Stick size, length, round head test drop shape or regal tip all make subtle changes. But there is no standard bearer just like traditional or match grip. It’s important to experiment with it all till you get what works for you. We are all individuals. When I taught I taught everything I learned from drumming for 60 years of my personal experience and the student decided what was right, comfortable and what works for them. Same with kit set up angle of drums location of pedals seat height etc. we learn through the sound the effect the articulation and make it muscle and brain memory. I taught traditional grip first simply cause it’s what I learned. When playing I use both but mostly traditional simply because of my muscle memory. I can get faster single stroke rolls with matched but better articulation and doubles with trad. I can play timpani with matched or trad as well but if there are doubles I prefer trad. As you evolve as a drummer and play different genres of music with different size bands you alter your playing to serve the music and to serve your own needs. There is no right or wrong. There are drummers who are left handed playing right hand set up. And vice versa and then those gifted players that are ambidextrous like Cobham and Lenny White. Some drummers prefer flanged rims or die cast rims some vented heads some overtones etc. tommy Igoe once told my son his snare wasn’t tuned right. He was playing a Dunnet stainless that sounded best at lower tune and I tuned it perfectly so his comment was moot, it wasn’t his “feeling” of right tuning. It was mine and it sounded perfect for the big band he was playing with. (Weather report bird land). Just keep playing and learning. Learning never ends.
@@larrymarcus3176 Good feedback Larry! I've been practicing traditional grip for a while now and find that single stroke rolls are the hardest. Other rudiments seem to come easier.
Thanks Stanton. This is something I've been considering and wondering for a long time: currently a traditional grip player but always thought whether I should switch to matched because it makes moving around the kit more natural, and makes (for me at least) using the hihat to its full extend in Funk situations also more natural. I admit I am not sure of your argument that Traditional allows playing softer. Isn't it the same as just "using less power" in matched grip? This is something you anyways have to learn and study as a drummer, regardless of grip: how to be able to play consistently all the way from piano to forte. So what's the difference between raising the fullcrum point with traditional vs just using less power in matched? Is there any?
Keep in mind that with matched grip, the weight of your hand is on top of the stick so gravity is in your favor if you want to play with more power. Conversely, if you want to play lighter it helps to not have the weight of your hand on top the stick. In my opinion matched just makes for a heavier and more powerful stroke. So with traditional, the palm of your hand is on the side or underneath the stick so it’s easier to play lighter. Again, this is just what works for me. I am able to play with more finesse and softer traditional grip and that’s what feels natural for me…But everybody needs to figure out what works for them.🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Great Job Stanton Moore!!!! I am a traditional grip player!!!! I have a question for you: I notice that some traditional grip jazz drummers tilt their drum on an angle and some do not. Do you know why some jazz drummers tilt their drum and some jazz drummers do not?
Thanks and great question! The forward angle is an old school approach that allows the left hand traditional grip to more comfortably play rim shots. 🙌🏼
Traditional grip was invented out of necessity. Snare drums used to be carried on one hip, which put them at an angle that made matched grip in the left hand impossible to use comfortably. When the drum set was invented, all drummers knew how to play snare drum using traditional grip, and they tilted the snare to simulate the angle of the marching snare. As for why some traditional grip users don't tilt their snares, there could be a variety of possible reasons. Maybe they learned to play in a modern marching band, where snares are mounted in their harnesses flat. Maybe they started with matched and/or learned traditional on an un-tilted snare, and don't want to mess with that, etc.
Jc3drums nailed it! Trad grip was required in Civil War days when the drum was off the left hip. I came up with trad as many of us did but it ergonomically never made sense to me starting with concert snare and proceeding to drum kit. But I still flip to it 'when I do', and Stanton pretty much nailed the 'splainin of what my primal brain was trying to resolve. Yes, indeed!
Sometimes…especially if I’m going for a Charlie Watts or Steve Jordan vibe, but if I’m playing loud back beats for a long time… in general, I like to play matched grip.🙌🏼
@@stantonmooremusic That’s a good interpretation. I like that sometimes I play traditional grip and it hurts my hand plus I think it has to do with the sticks themselves
I think you’d be able to play exactly the same volume and sensitivity with both grips. Possibly more of an angle of your drums and placement of the other drums around your kit and with that comes how comfortable you can play with volume. The stick to me, is at the placement yet your hand is underneath Or on top of the stick that’s it really… and with that just comes that just more experience you’ve had with either grips and to which you prefer. All subjectivity and not a right or wrong thing etc. all that comes with practice. Good stuff tho Stanton. U sounded great last night with joe ashlar at the maple leaf, as usual brother.
Thanks! And to your point, when your hand is on top of the stick with matched grip, you have gravity working in your favor. In my experience, it’s easier to play powerfully when I have the weight of my hand on top of the stick while playing matched grip.🙌🏼
@@stantonmooremusic absolutely my brother big big ups! Have you ever wondered what it would feel like playing drums in space belted down to a kit of drums? Improvisations in space….do you think aliens would say “wow he plays so down to earth!” Haha, earthy playing, yet he plays with such space!
I'm Soooo new at this game (& so old ta Start! 😆-54, about 1½yrs in...bassist since age 11) So, I bought a kit "in case I find a Good Drummer...got bored, ain't found one (yet) decided I'D TRY ta learn the other Percussion instrument. Anyhoo, I'm righty, right-hand set-up, and Mostly play (🫣 bash) match-grip. And, I have an injury on my left ring finger, where it doesn't Bend correctly...& although is Perfect for some bass-chords & various techniques, Does Not provide enough strength (yet) ta Hold a damn stick "traditionally" without throwin' the damn thing! However, I Have Been (& often Do now) able'ta hold traditional-grip Backwards (like a lefty would) and still play right-handed. I've got more control & precision on my hats thataway too... 🤷🏻♂️ You ever known a right-handed (I can't call Myself one Yet) drummer, that ever holds traditional-grip with their Right Hand???
Some snare drummers in New Orleans are right, handed and hold the stick traditionally in the right hand. But when you try to move your right hand up to the ride cymbal, your right elbow will be way up in the air and you could tire out easily. traditional grip works best when it remains on or close to the snare drum.🙌🏼
I once watched Weckl using his fingers in traditional grip, but he did not turn his hand back of hand facing up like many players do, he stayed in the starting position and his fingers moved the stick from above which my body doesn't allow me to do, maybe you have some words on that.
If your body won’t allow you to do it you need to find what works for you. In this video, I’m discussing what works for me. Everybody needs to figure out what works for them individually.🙌🏼
Virgil Donati plays Triple forte and Triple piano ..... all with Traditional grip. You may have to switch to heavier sticks but if you've worked it all out then it doesn't matter.
And that’s what’s great about drumming! What works for Virgile works for him. I’m sharing what works for me, but everyone should do what works for them! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
The traditional grip originated when early marching drums were worn on the side of the body. To me, and this is just personal, it feels unnatural when trying to navigate around the kit.
It ain't what you do, it is the way... Traditional grip with right hands 'american grip' simply just looks soooo much cooler than any other grip. That's nuff for me.
If trad grip gives more finesse, why is it never used with both hands? I think we all know why trad grip was used originally for just the left hand, and clearly people who got used to that now find it comfortable for certain situations. But if not for history, it would never have developed for the drumset. You don't see xylophone players or timpanists using it, and if it really did have advantages why do you never see anyone use it for both hands? Play what feels comfortable but the finesse arguments really don't stand up when you're diddling your ride pattern with your right hand fine...
When you try to move your right hand up to the ride cymbal, your right elbow will be way up in the air and you could tire out easily. I feel traditional grip works best when it remains on or close to the snare drum.🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
First comment - join the Academy! OK - as an engineer by trade, I have told Stanton he should get an honorary degree just for his understanding and teaching of ergonomics. I got a lot from this video! I see photos of me playing and it looks like I am choking my match grip. Turns out, I may be ok! It's Tony Williams grip! 😊 First I've ever heard that but it is what I do (maybe too much). GREAT video Stanton - I usually cringe when drummers start talking physics, but you got it down! Appreciate ya!
Thanks for the positive feedback Larry! 🙌🏼🥁🙏🏼
In his later years Buddy Rich bad mouth match grip, but he played match grip plenty, especially when hitting his floor toms.🥁
Yup! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Hi Uncle Stan,
I was Matched for Most of the start then Through Jazz Studies with a Teacher in my Area I learnt Traditional Grip got the best of me Due to my set up using the Todd Suchermann ride angle I really had it to an art.. but in Sunday Seat Traditional is where it's at for me..
@@danalnajes 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
@stantonmooremusic your the best ☺️☺️
Thanks! You have answered a question regarding the traditional left hand posture. I always wondered why at times the great jazzers held their hand so high when they performed. When you explain this, it seems so embarrassingly obvious.
Thank you! It took me years to figure it out. 🙌🏼😂👊🏼
Great info.Adapting the Tony Williams grip was the best move I ever made to improve my hand technique.Thanks for all the tutorials.
Thank you for turning in!🙌🏼
Very informative. Always good when you hear some valid points made that make sense even 𝘢𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 you thought you had it all figured out.🤔
@@stevejenkins6919 thanks for tuning in! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Stanton, the knowledge you give us drummers is highly valuable. I’m a big fan of COC. You brought a whole new sound to the band on arms of god. Stonebreaker rhythm was mind blowing.
Thanks so much. We’ve been working on the new record. Can’t wait for everyone to hear it!
🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Good points. Just for clarification “Apex” is the highest point, not the place where the stick meets the surface of the drum head.
By definition, you are correct, but I am trying to describe the climax of the stroke. Maybe there is a better word for it…
This is exactly what I’m practicing since October 2023 after playing matched for years, thanks Stanton 😊
🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
You’ve got great feel and technique. All methods have their place and value, which is great for drummers. I was diggin’ the depth to your sound. ✊🏼🥁
Thank you! 🙌🏼
Great instruction, as always. I feel compelled now to add match grip to my playing and mix it up a bit. Cheers.
🙏🏼🥁🙌🏼
I am totally in sync with you on this. I can’t use just one or the other, I need the grip that will allow me to execute the technique I want to use. I find when I’m comping or playing behind guys, it’s trad. When I’m soloing, it’s usually matched. Even then it’s not always that rigid. Awesome insight as always.
Well said!🙏🏼🥁🙌🏼
Thank you for this, Stanton! I also found that switching between grips helps for different musical purposes. Power vs nuance, etc. Thanks for going into detail.
Any chance of a video further demonstrating the Tony Williams grip as you showed?
Thanks for tuning in!
Check out Steve Smith’s “Pathways of Motion” for a more in depth dive into Tony Williams grip. 🙌🏼🥁🙏🏼
Love your academy vids, very informative!
Thank you! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
It's about how one changes from trad til match, and vice versa! Two difficult techniques! Let alone learn both of them!
Agreed! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Thanks for sharing and really elequently explained 👌
Thanks for tuning in🙌🏼
I had 2 teachers as a youngster, one drumset, he used traditional grip and taught that both are important. Other teacher taught rudimentary/theory, he was a match grip person. Luckily I have learned both and now at 56, I still use both. The usual story, match grip for power and traditional for regular/delicate work.
🙌🏼🥁🙏🏼
Here's the rub though. Playing "as good as matched" on the kit traditional grip is optimized by angling the drums to ergonomically match the resting stick angle. This way there's the same (or more) power & mobility. I play for a country artist, so my traditional grip works very well for that genre.
@@joecoleman288 yes, well said!🙌🏼
When I started playing professionally years ago, I played matched grip exclusively. Now, these days I use both. My snare is angled away from me slightly.
🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
I like and use both methods to hold the sticks.....
Me too! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
I need a snare like that to complete my drum kit.
🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
I use both but often get frustrated that I can’t get the same sped as matched grip when using traditional grip.
Any videos on push pull for traditional grip?
Not yet, but good idea! 🙌🏼
Hi Stanton, does stick size play a factor? Do you typically use smaller or lighter sticks with traditional?
Great question! In general, I use my signature stick from Vic Firth, which is a slightly thinner, but slightly longer 5A with a pinpointed tip for clearer articulation. That being said when I am swinging out or playing in a lighter context, I use the AJ6 which has a similar body to my sig stick, but has a drastically tapered shoulder with a tiny tip. When I play the AJ6, I almost exclusively play traditional grip.
I hope that helps!🙌🏼
@@stantonmooremusic Thanks! And thank you for giving back to the drum community. It is greatly appreciated and valuable. 🙏
Everything you do when drumming counts and makes a difference. Stick size, length, round head test drop shape or regal tip all make subtle changes. But there is no standard bearer just like traditional or match grip. It’s important to experiment with it all till you get what works for you. We are all individuals. When I taught I taught everything I learned from drumming for 60 years of my personal experience and the student decided what was right, comfortable and what works for them. Same with kit set up angle of drums location of pedals seat height etc. we learn through the sound the effect the articulation and make it muscle and brain memory. I taught traditional grip first simply cause it’s what I learned. When playing I use both but mostly traditional simply because of my muscle memory. I can get faster single stroke rolls with matched but better articulation and doubles with trad. I can play timpani with matched or trad as well but if there are doubles I prefer trad. As you evolve as a drummer and play different genres of music with different size bands you alter your playing to serve the music and to serve your own needs. There is no right or wrong. There are drummers who are left handed playing right hand set up. And vice versa and then those gifted players that are ambidextrous like Cobham and Lenny White. Some drummers prefer flanged rims or die cast rims some vented heads some overtones etc. tommy Igoe once told my son his snare wasn’t tuned right. He was playing a Dunnet stainless that sounded best at lower tune and I tuned it perfectly so his comment was moot, it wasn’t his “feeling” of right tuning. It was mine and it sounded perfect for the big band he was playing with. (Weather report bird land). Just keep playing and learning. Learning never ends.
@@larrymarcus3176 good points!
Everyone should find what works for them! 🙌🏼
@@larrymarcus3176 Good feedback Larry! I've been practicing traditional grip for a while now and find that single stroke rolls are the hardest. Other rudiments seem to come easier.
Having played matched my whole life, what are the best techniques to work learning traditional?
If you really want to learn traditional, I would suggest getting with a private teacher.🙌🏼
Thanks Stanton. This is something I've been considering and wondering for a long time: currently a traditional grip player but always thought whether I should switch to matched because it makes moving around the kit more natural, and makes (for me at least) using the hihat to its full extend in Funk situations also more natural. I admit I am not sure of your argument that Traditional allows playing softer. Isn't it the same as just "using less power" in matched grip? This is something you anyways have to learn and study as a drummer, regardless of grip: how to be able to play consistently all the way from piano to forte. So what's the difference between raising the fullcrum point with traditional vs just using less power in matched? Is there any?
Keep in mind that with matched grip, the weight of your hand is on top of the stick so gravity is in your favor if you want to play with more power. Conversely, if you want to play lighter it helps to not have the weight of your hand on top the stick. In my opinion matched just makes for a heavier and more powerful stroke. So with traditional, the palm of your hand is on the side or underneath the stick so it’s easier to play lighter. Again, this is just what works for me. I am able to play with more finesse and softer traditional grip and that’s what feels natural for me…But everybody needs to figure out what works for them.🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
At my age whatever can get me through the gig.😊
🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Great Job Stanton Moore!!!! I am a traditional grip player!!!! I have a question for you:
I notice that some traditional grip jazz drummers tilt their drum on an angle and some do not. Do you know why some jazz drummers tilt their drum and some jazz drummers do not?
Thanks and great question!
The forward angle is an old school approach that allows the left hand traditional grip to more comfortably play rim shots. 🙌🏼
Traditional grip was invented out of necessity. Snare drums used to be carried on one hip, which put them at an angle that made matched grip in the left hand impossible to use comfortably. When the drum set was invented, all drummers knew how to play snare drum using traditional grip, and they tilted the snare to simulate the angle of the marching snare. As for why some traditional grip users don't tilt their snares, there could be a variety of possible reasons. Maybe they learned to play in a modern marching band, where snares are mounted in their harnesses flat. Maybe they started with matched and/or learned traditional on an un-tilted snare, and don't want to mess with that, etc.
Jc3drums nailed it! Trad grip was required in Civil War days when the drum was off the left hip. I came up with trad as many of us did but it ergonomically never made sense to me starting with concert snare and proceeding to drum kit. But I still flip to it 'when I do', and Stanton pretty much nailed the 'splainin of what my primal brain was trying to resolve. Yes, indeed!
@@jc3drums916 very well said. This is my understanding as well.
Thank you for articulating this so clearly.🙏🏼🥁🙌🏼
@@larrylister9313 well put my man. 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
I feel like a different person when I play traditional. It's a mood thing -- a mental thing.
yeah, them mini bats you used for marching band got something to say about that traditional grip...
like "imma eat your fingers"
🙌🏼😂👊🏼
I’m a matched grip player for sure. I feel like I can hit the drums easier than with traditional grip.
Do you use Traditional grip for rock
Sometimes…especially if I’m going for a Charlie Watts or Steve Jordan vibe, but if I’m playing loud back beats for a long time… in general, I like to play matched grip.🙌🏼
@@stantonmooremusic That’s a good interpretation. I like that sometimes I play traditional grip and it hurts my hand plus I think it has to do with the sticks themselves
I think you’d be able to play exactly the same volume and sensitivity with both grips. Possibly more of an angle of your drums and placement of the other drums around your kit and with that comes how comfortable you can play with volume. The stick to me, is at the placement yet your hand is underneath Or on top of the stick that’s it really… and with that just comes that just more experience you’ve had with either grips and to which you prefer. All subjectivity and not a right or wrong thing etc. all that comes with practice. Good stuff tho Stanton. U sounded great last night with joe ashlar at the maple leaf, as usual brother.
Thanks! And to your point, when your hand is on top of the stick with matched grip, you have gravity working in your favor. In my experience, it’s easier to play powerfully when I have the weight of my hand on top of the stick while playing matched grip.🙌🏼
@@stantonmooremusic absolutely my brother big big ups! Have you ever wondered what it would feel like playing drums in space belted down to a kit of drums? Improvisations in space….do you think aliens would say “wow he plays so down to earth!” Haha, earthy playing, yet he plays with such space!
@@Tristanrgreene11that would be interesting! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
I'm Soooo new at this game (& so old ta Start! 😆-54, about 1½yrs in...bassist since age 11) So, I bought a kit "in case I find a Good Drummer...got bored, ain't found one (yet) decided I'D TRY ta learn the other Percussion instrument.
Anyhoo, I'm righty, right-hand set-up, and Mostly play (🫣 bash) match-grip. And, I have an injury on my left ring finger, where it doesn't Bend correctly...& although is Perfect for some bass-chords & various techniques, Does Not provide enough strength (yet) ta Hold a damn stick "traditionally" without throwin' the damn thing!
However, I Have Been (& often Do now) able'ta hold traditional-grip Backwards (like a lefty would) and still play right-handed. I've got more control & precision on my hats thataway too...
🤷🏻♂️ You ever known a right-handed (I can't call Myself one Yet) drummer, that ever holds traditional-grip with their Right Hand???
Some snare drummers in New Orleans are right, handed and hold the stick traditionally in the right hand. But when you try to move your right hand up to the ride cymbal, your right elbow will be way up in the air and you could tire out easily. traditional grip works best when it remains on or close to the snare drum.🙌🏼
I once watched Weckl using his fingers in traditional grip, but he did not turn his hand back of hand facing up like many players do, he stayed in the starting position and his fingers moved the stick from above which my body doesn't allow me to do, maybe you have some words on that.
If your body won’t allow you to do it you need to find what works for you. In this video, I’m discussing what works for me. Everybody needs to figure out what works for them individually.🙌🏼
Either one is fine, but matched grip seems more applicable in a variety of settings.
🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
Virgil Donati plays Triple forte and Triple piano ..... all with Traditional grip.
You may have to switch to heavier sticks but if you've worked it all out then it doesn't matter.
And that’s what’s great about drumming! What works for Virgile works for him. I’m sharing what works for me, but everyone should do what works for them! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
@@stantonmooremusic
Yes, thanks Stanton.
Then there's guys like Bill Stewart sounding like one of the jazz greats playing matched grip.
Agreed! 🙌🏼
Gene Krupa “ The King Of Swing “ said the music you are playing will determine which grip you use.
Perfectly said by Gene! 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
The traditional grip originated when early marching drums were worn on the side of the body. To me, and this is just personal, it feels unnatural when trying to navigate around the kit.
I feel traditional grip works best when it remains on or close to the snare drum. 🙌🏼
It ain't what you do, it is the way... Traditional grip with right hands 'american grip' simply just looks soooo much cooler than any other grip. That's nuff for me.
I dunno know, Steve Jordan looks pretty cool when playing traditional, just saying! 🙌🏼😃👊🏼
If trad grip gives more finesse, why is it never used with both hands?
I think we all know why trad grip was used originally for just the left hand, and clearly people who got used to that now find it comfortable for certain situations. But if not for history, it would never have developed for the drumset. You don't see xylophone players or timpanists using it, and if it really did have advantages why do you never see anyone use it for both hands?
Play what feels comfortable but the finesse arguments really don't stand up when you're diddling your ride pattern with your right hand fine...
When you try to move your right hand up to the ride cymbal, your right elbow will be way up in the air and you could tire out easily. I feel traditional grip works best when it remains on or close to the snare drum.🙌🏼🥁👊🏼
All method books back in the day taught trad. grip. I've used it since Nixon was elected!
@@brianchisnell1548 🙌🏼🥁👊🏼