Building. The concept of building. Y’know who had it figured out? Jackson. They built a home filled it with people they care about and defend it because it’s worth it. Lev and Abby barely scrapped by with nothing chasing hope someone else promised but I think we all know that’s B.S you cant live life off concepts and ideas forever lest you wind up alone with nothing but your pride. If Ellie killed Abby you know what would be different then? She’d be dead. And Ellie would still have lost everything for it. Ideology doesn’t mean diddly if you’ve no one to speak it to, the only thing hate shares with love is it takes two to tango
Sorry for missing this Spartan but I agree with you. You could really feel the community in Jackson in part 2. I just wish we got more of it. The amount of detail they added was something to take in.
Nora is the only one that actually says something to Ellie about it. You’re right. As for Abby, she’s eavesdropping on her dad and Marlene’s conversation in her 4 years earlier flashback. She says to him if it was me I’d want you to do it, so she definitely knows what they’re talking about. I think it’s safe to say she’s heard of Ellie’s name around Marlene before. Did she know that was Ellie in Jackson when she stormed through the door? Probably not. Had other things going on there. Abby may not have realized exactly who Ellie is till the theater confrontation when Ellie says Joel did what he did to save her. She only references Joel in her pov up to that point.
Technically, Ellie herself tells Abby that after she killed Jessie. Of course, Abby might think she was lying to save her friends. But I think she would connect the dots
@@theoflores2353 yeah I think she knew too. It is interesting that she never voiced any inner monologue about Ellie in her pov. Thank you for watching.
I think the arc should be: love, hate, indifference. I'd have Ellie feeling heartbroken from the loss of Dina or J.J. or Tommy to the infection. Because of this, she wants to pursue the innoculation to prevent more people from turning. (It isn't a "cure" as that would mean you can take an infected and reverse the infection but I'll use the term for simplicity) After hearing about the Fireflies still existing, she contacts them via ham radio. They send Abby to her with the location of a FEDRA doctor that can make the "cure". As they travel they discover that rumors of an "immune woman" has started to spread. Between the Fireflies that chased Joel (they saw Ellie in his arms so know female/young and would have been told not to shoot her and why), the WLF who saw her fall with Nora without a mask and didn't find her body/or was seem leaving the hospital after killing Nora (and maybe even one of the freed Rattler captives who saw the bite on her hand and sees her again later). The secret is out. Whomever controls the distribution of the cure would have the most power. There are smugglers who want to find her to make a fortune selling the "cure", groups like the Rattlers who like the chaos and the power they currently have and would horde the cure for their own, FEDRA wants to regain power and be relevent again, Fireflies want to prevent that and both see the other as criminal and not worthy of having the "cure". There are religious factions who think a "cure" is "Thwarting God's Will" and want to prevent its creation, etc. Seeing the reality, that humans don't deserve to be saved, Ellie "deletes herself" in a cave. A few months later her body has spored (blue to contrast with the orange) and you see some drift towards children playing or the spores land on a clicker and it convulses and expires.
I can see some of this happening. Like Ellie losing someone due to the infection and then she seeks out the FF and others try to intervene so they have the Elder Wand (Ellie), and then they all have a big team battle over her. I can actually see something like that playing out. Good thought!! And thank you for watching.
@@TyranosauRoss I think this way the history of how the rumors spread and what group wants what can be gleaned from collectables/artifacts and overheard comments and maybe even an encounter with an old Smuggling buddy of Joel's that has no clue she is the woman he is hunting and helps out after seeing Joel's watch but turns on her when he finds out she is the Immune One. The game levels are first find a hospital, secure it, kidnap the doctor, quests to get the supplies and equipment so the surgical bay is ready, save someone who people assume is her and plan on "testing", etc. For every betrayal/ugly of humanity, show something bright about humanity (art, compassion, self-sacrifice) too. But in the end she thinks the good isn't worth the bad. She goes from indifferent about her life to indifferent about humanity as well. She has lost hope and doesn't want to be used as a pawn, but the gamer/audience is left with hope via the spores The ending being about the fact that it isn't about deserving to be saved, but being saved despite not deserving it.
I'd rather see reconstruction opposed to indifference. Carry the consequences of the 2nd game but offer penance. See the film demolition for a better idea of what I'm talking about.
@@hoshireed77I have a pretty similar concept of the story that is TLOU 3. here it is. my interpretation of the 3rd game is going to have to be a standoff compared to the previous ones, so that'll mean that you'll won't play as the standard parallels that the 1st two TLOU games had, such as playing as Sarah & Joel as the 1st protagonist you play as in each TLOU game, then onwards you play the 2 remaining as what the 2 TLOU games did; TLOU3 will scrap those vignettes & introduce a new character immediately, the introduction will be a lot like how Banshee's main protagonist would be introduced (especially the song that it uses for the main protagonist), after the intro regarding a black screen & some text fonts to introduce a new TLOU game, it will then transition towards the main protagonist walking like a blur kinda like Joel did from the E3 2016 trailer of TLOU2, and he'll be walking & it will have transitions like the show called Banshee to what the main protagonist is doing. to summarise the point of this character, he's one of the big top dogs of the Hunter/David's group, that evolved overtime since David's demise (although at the start, you wouldn't know that he was a Hunter nor you knowing the existence of the group unless there's slight hints within the transitions for the intro of the game via a st_p club, but there wouldn't be any dialogue & it will just be the music going at it with an exception for the sound effects being produced with the song), and essentially what the introduction establishes is the main protagonist setting out what he's set out to do for the Hunter group, although the audience wouldn't know the exact or direct intentions of what the main protagonist is setting out to do, but the main protagonist will do lots of 'things' such as offing a bunch of ppl at a farm (without the audience directly seeing it from the introduction, but only hinting it) for whatever reason (also, the song that Banshee uses for the introduction of the main protagonist mentions 'offing a number at the farm' so it's a nice touch that the main protagonist corresponds to the nature of the song named 'Fifth of Whiskey') & the main protagonist will just be walking away from the farm with bodies blurred in the background, but this will only happen in transition once the song gets to the part of 'offing a number at the farm' so some of the audience might pick up what's happening even though the introduction is supposed to be suble but direct at the same time. Overall, the main protagonist will be an allegory (a specific meta-commentary) for the 'Human Essence' of what it means existing as a 'Human' & the nature of being a 'Human' - so that means in short that the game will be a lot more d__raved than the previous TLOU's for that very reason alone & the reason for this is because how TLOU2 ended with the Human Essence overtaking the whole final act of the game, although the entire game was basically like that (even TLOU1) but there's one specific reason as to what it makes it stand out & that is primarily the Rattler's & their point of existence within TLOU itself; the Hunter Group that the Main Protagonist is a part of will have very similar vignette's from one another with the Rattlers. my interpretation will still include Ellie, but you'll won't play as her until around the later middle of the game & the reason for that, is because the main protagonist & Ellie will have special roles for each other for the story i just smeared through in my mind, but the story will have specific structuring that of 'Heart of Darkness' (which TLOU I utilised this specific structuring for Joel) & will take inspirations for the much later part of the story through the main protagonist to being undercover for a city that he found along the way (for what reason that may be) & so he'll operate as a Sheriff, which will correspond to the inspirations for the main protagonist being a Sheriff such as The Wolf Among Us & Banshee. there's a lot more to this, but im intentionally trying to miniscule the details as of now...
@@hoshireed77 The First Act will be about the main protagonist being some sort of undercover agent/hitman for the Hunter group & he'll also bring in updates & keep in touch with the Hunter Society...
I still can’t get over how long it takes to make a complete game. It’s the one thing I wish was different but if it was easier I don’t think we would get such great games like we do every so often
I agree. 10-15 years ago it seemed like games came out every 2-3 years. You can almost double that now. Sequels that is. It sucks but the finished product will be worth it.
Considering that Abby was stabbed in the shoulder after already having issues with it, I feel like her buff days are over. I think we’ll see a virgin of Abby that puts all of her skills mr. Miyagi-style into lev
Lev will no doubt be a beast after training with Abby. Maybe the FF have an awesome ortho surgeon and physical therapist. She’s still young enough to recover. WLF never filled that chiropractor position.
I bet Abby will not try to forcefully take Ellie to the fireflies for the cure. Since birth people in Ellie's life have been saving her ...right from Anna as shown in HBO series then Marlene protected her all those years then Joel saves her. Dina saved her life too a lot of times even indirectly Jesse did. The twist will be Abby will also try and protect her. Eventually Ellie may herself surrender herself for the cure
I agree. I think the hostility between the two died in the water after their fight. I can see Ellie giving her life away for the cure. It certainly haunts her that she missed the opportunity to do it. I just think that it will have to be a hard choice. Immediately after part 2 it would be an easy choice cause she’s lost everything by the end of the game. She needs to find something that gives her life again, and when the choice to sacrifice herself is presented to her, the choice is difficult. Thank you for watching!!
I’ve had this theory that I built on from several other vids analysis and also some of the gameplay from tlou 2 and 1. I think here’s what happens in tlou 3: the game begins with Abby and lev reaching the fireflies, being taken care of under their custody and then a few months later, she and Lev are shocked by the mission that is suddenly assigned to all of the fireflies’ members. The mission is to locate Ellie to retrieve a cure this time, and since Abby is the daughter of Dr Jerry, she is sort of pressured to find Ellie as the fireflies believe that Abby must have had contact with Ellie since her father died in the hands of Joel. Now I think that Ellie’s immunity identity must have been slowly leaking throughout communities in the states. Therefore, the fireflies are desperate now to find Ellie and bring her to retrieve the cure for once and for all. So she begins to search for Ellie, as she wants to gain the trust of the fireflies as they are in still doubt of Abby and only giving her the benefit of doubt. So she travels with Lev to Jackson, where she secretly meets with Dina, who’s already moved on from her past and just wants to peacefully live with her child. Plus, as Abby explains to Dina that she is actually trying to find Ellie and that she wants to protect Ellie from many other communities that are trying to take Ellie in as hostage or kill her, Dina explains that she’s unsure of where Ellie is actually as she had not returned to Jackson. While talking with Abby, Tommy happens to come in and sees Abby, only for a fight to ensue between her and Tommy (Tommy will be trying to shoot at her or attack her, but she tries her best to defend herself) until Dina steps in. As they explain to Tommy that Abby is trying to find and protect Ellie this time, Tommy possibly might agree to help Abby in locating Ellie. I don’t know exactly how they may convince Tommy to find Ellie, but possibly maria, Tommy’s wife, might step in and convince Tommy. So they manage to piece informations from Jackson’ residents and maybe even outsiders who spotted Ellie, and then they learn she resides at the mountains. I think she’ll be living alone at the mountains because in her journal, I don’t remember where exactly, Ellie mentions something about the mountains which can possibly explain Ellie’s residence there. So once they locate Ellie, who shows no emotions at all and she’s now an experienced hunter, they talk to her and try their best to escort her to the fireflies, only for her to refuse. So one night, as Tommy, Abby, and lev are sleeping somewhere near Ellie’s residence, they are suddenly attacked by a group of strangers (maybe a new faction?) and Ellie manages to save them. Learning of the troubles that she already got her friends in before during tlou 2 (jesses’s death, having Dina accompany her while she was pregnant, Tommy losing his eyes, etc), Ellie understands that it’s best to forgive and forget. In other words, she doesn’t want her friends and family suffer again, and so that’s why she resided alone. But now due to communities learning of her immunity, her friends and families are in risk as well, so she eventually agrees to be escorted to the fireflies across the state. I think they’ll be travelling on motorbikes through the canyons as another vid stated about the pictures at Joel’s house, where it shows canyons and something like Tommy and Joel like motorbikes. So the game will sort of have moments at the canyons like maybe ambushes, 1-1 talk between Abby and Ellie, or Tommy and Ellie, etc. They finally manage to get near the fireflies HQ, where the doctors are prepared to perform the operations. Ellie then requests Tommy on their way that she wishes to visit Joel’s old house. Once they stop there, Ellie only walks into the house alone, (I’m not totally sure if the condition is fine in the house but I assume it may be), and she explores a bit before going to Sarah’s room. At there, she sits on Sarah’s bed, takes a look at Joel’s and Sarah’s photo (though Tommy did bring that photo back to Joel in part 1, so maybe another picture?) or even maybe read the birthday card that Sarah wrote and forgot to give to Joel. She then stays still in the position before proceeding to sleep in the same position that Sarah was sleeping in during the first game. (Even Ellie slept like that in the second game beginning). The screen fades to black slowly as an operating beep noise can be heard that eventually goes still, indicating Ellie’s life is over, however, the results are ambiguous. We don’t know if they managed to successfully retrieve a cure or not. Leaving at an ambiguous ending for this series makes the most sense in my opinion as the whole game’s atmosphere and setting revolves around the theme of “endure and survive”; where humanity has accepted the virus and has to cope with it. Plus, in part 2, the infected numbers have grown so I highly doubt that part 3 will end with humanity being restored and everyone works together to rebuild the world, which will just be an happy ending. I don’t think Naughty dog will go in that route, since their main focus is on Ellie, as the Tlou series begins with Ellie and it will end with her.
I agree that the game begins with Abby and Lev. They’re path forward and destination is clear at the end of 2. I don’t think they fade into the sunset and we never see them again. I can’t see that happening. I think it’ll take some time to find out where Ellie is. Can’t see her going back to Jackson. I agree with you that she goes off on the loner route. People will need to seek her out to bring her into the story, otherwise I think she wants to disappear. I also agree that the fireflies pursuing her will bring her into the mix. I can’t see Abby backing that after Ellie let her and Lev go, despite going there to end her. She’ll remember that she let them go and feel a duty to save her or at the very least, tip her off. Abby isn’t going to like what the Fireflies are now imo. She may not see it right off the bat, but she’ll see that they’re power hungry just like every other faction out there. In regards to Ellie’s ending, I think it’s entirely possible she’ll give away her life for a cure. But it has to be a hard choice. Someone has to enter her life in Part 3 that gives her a reason to want to continue living, or as you say, friends that are now threatened due to the hunt for her. The Ellie we see walking off our screens at the end of 2 is at the lowest point of her life. Thank you for watching and commenting!
That’s a fair point and could be true. I can’t get past the menu at the end of the game though. Could be a red herring. Also the process to get to the house, move the bookcase that concealed the firefly basement, and then finding the right radio frequency (plus asking Abby questions about what base she’s from) seems a couple levels above the Rattler’s brain capabilities. Thanks for watching I appreciate it!
I’d be curious to play that but not as the third installment of the last of us. After the third last of us they can explore other regions/parts of the world impacted by cordyceps, but we gotta see how this story ends. I appreciate you watching!
Yes I agree, it would be great to explore how other nations responded to the outbreak coz the scope is huge. I don't feel like theres an immediate story to tell for Ellie or Abbie, especially Abbie as she's already found her redemption in Lev. I would rather see Ellie appear again in a later installment as a more mature individual when another character(s) story converges with hers.
@@Groovy75x if they were making this like a 4 or 5 game series I could see them taking time away from Ellie and having a new character come across her when she’s a bit older, but if it’s ending at 3 then I think Ellie is in it, and plays a big role.
Yeah I think that sounds reasonable. It’s hard to be excited for something so far away, but nice to have it semi-confirmed or whatever you wanna call it. Think about a series like Mass Effect where they put out three titles in 5 years. Those days are long gone. Worth it in the end, but a painful wait.
Yeah I was just going off what you said about Ellie finding something worth living for, or somebody. Ellie taking Joel's place in a duo. Finding someone who's younger and needs guidance in their apocalyptic world. but yeah. @@TyranosauRoss
@@dalton5903 I gotcha. Yeah I do think Ellie needs to find something that brings her out of the pit she’s in at the end of 2. She’s as low as we’ve ever seen her. She very well may find a younger person to play parent to, but I don’t see it being JJ. I think that would be too telegraphed at this stage. I reckon it’ll be someone we have yet to meet which I would prefer.
I mean we kind of saw that with Abby & Lev which is why Ellie chose to spare Abby cause she’d be taking Levs Joel, what I’d love to see is them revealing Jjs name is actually Joel Jesse instead of Jesse Jr
I don’t see Abby going to find harbour and rescue with the fire flies to then go against them and even less to protect Ellie even if she spared her life. Maybe Abby will have someone she personally loves getting bitten and want to get the vaccine. But will they have another doctor able to make it?
My thought is that Abby could also lead them to where she may be and then see show has a family or someone she looks after and then feels obligated to step out of guilt. I agree about the doctor. Can’t have some jabroni doing the most important surgery ever. They can easily write a doctor into the story though. Maybe the FF are more interested in extracting a vaccine so they can use it for power opposed to administering it for good.
@@TyranosauRoss that could be an interesting angle if the FF were devoured by power and then Abby would try to prevent that. Although her own dad was going to sacrifice Ellie for the greater good. My thinking is that we won’t see Abby again in Part III. The story and idea (part I = love for someone dear; part II = revenge) will involve Ellie and a whole new set of characters and circumstances to teach her and show the player something new, as well as ending Ellie’s character arch. There has to be something in the story that could emerge in Part III that seems like just a detail now (just like the fact the the Doctor Joel killed had a daughter who would want revenge to then create the same feeling in Ellie’s journey).
@@cozmos21 that’s a good point. I’d be okay with moving on from Abby, just would put my money right now on her being in it. I welcome it being mainly Ellie with new characters and a new dilemma arising.
@@TyranosauRoss Yeah she probably will be in it. Thing is ND have a talent for thinking out of the box and creating stories larger than we can expect so who knows. But maybe she won't be in it or just in a story-line way (not playable character but holds info or says info to FF), because if she is playable again in Part III then the whole series becomes almost 50/50 Ellie and Abby while I believe it's got to remain 100% about Ellie. Especially since Joel is out of the story.
@@cozmos21 I agree with you. If she’s in the story fine, but no more 50/50 split. I don’t think ND would do that again either. Maybe there’s a moment in the game where the FF are going to operate on Ellie with no intent to use the vaccine in a good way, and to use it for power purposes (I’m sure they can do both btw), and they take Ellie against her will so Abby steps in and you play as her for an hour or so. Idk, spitballing here. I’m fine with no Abby being a playable character, but if it’s for a small portion of the game, like Winter Ellie in Part 1, I don’t mind that either.
Yeah it's got to be about forgiveness, the first one's about love then second one is about hate so the third one has to in some way be about forgiveness
That’s the only logical thing I can think of right now. Hopefully this starts to move at a decent pace. Maybe ND threw the whole concept thing as a smokescreen and they’re further along in the story than he let on. We can dream. Have to wonder now if the third game could come out before the show catches up so they can work it into Max. Both games and show move at a snails pace now.
@@evivrusXerudne I’d agree if the forgiveness didn’t happen so late in the game. I don’t think that becomes a concept until the end of Santa Barbara. Though you can make the argument that Ellie already began forgiving Joel on his last night, so forgiveness was something that played a role for her throughout the whole game.
@TyranosauRoss I'm more thinking what is the ultimate message of the game? It's not to hate people who do you wrong. It's to understand and ultimately forgive - or at the very least, let go. I think "the game is about hate" is the pre-release marketing line. The game is really about forgiveness, understanding, and perspective.
What’s funny is when I initially heard the voice on the radio talking with Abby I thought it was the rattlers. It’s not until recently that I saw dom the bomb say otherwise and now listening to this video I can’t believe how wrong I was at that time. It definitely makes more sense now since they showed the building at Catalina island in the end of the game
Yeah I definitely get thinking it was a Rattler ruse. It would be smart of them. Thing is, I don’t think they’re very smart. Just bullies that own that general area. Wonder what the FF perspective was on them? Would imagine they’ve crossed paths at some time. I appreciate you watching and the sub. Means a lot 🙏
Completely disagree. IMO, the entire point of TLOU1 was Joel rescuing Ellie from her own shortsighted idealism. He believed she had to live. She was his world at that point, but Ellie is more than that. TLOU2 ends with Ellie choosing life, choosing forgiveness, choosing Joel, and letting go of this anger she had toward him. TLOU3 will not end with Ellie sacrificing herself. It doesn't make sense and it undermines the previous games' message. Ellie is the cure. Ellie living is the cure. In other words: a saved world isn't one where the young die for the old (Abby/Ellie for Marlene/Joel/Jerry/Isaac), it's one where the old die for the young. The old world is gone. Cannot be restored. The failures of the old, they have to pay for and make up for and fix...
@@evivrusXerudne heres the thing thats what joel wanted for her, thats not what she wanted,joel saved her because he never got over his daughter. It does make sense for her to sacrifice herself or join upwith the fireflies because thats what she wanted to do and still had feelings for it for four years
@@evivrusXerudne Totally agree with all you said especially with the "Ellie is the cure" part, but not in the way people think or tried to impose on her. She could maybe be the next leader of Jackson in the end, will participate in rebuilding a better society, one not based on futile quests and outdated ideals from another era with appalling moral implications that would sacrifice any lives for any cause. That's part of her journey to realize all that and act on it with the strength and experience she would have gained over the saga. The viewer must understand that the solution to the world's problems was never going to be this rushed sacrifice but rather a slow process that would take time, wisdom and determination, and that Ellie has all the skills to do that rather than by simply dying for it
There's no proof that anyone else in WLF knew about why Abby went to Jackson except those particular people in her crew so I doubt a random W LF guy would no. Also she can just lie and say yes she killed that Ellie person. I'm not even sure those people on the radio were really fireflies. They could have been lying.
True she may not have told anyone but she went with 7 other people so they could’ve said something. Jordan seems like a rat doesn’t he? I could see Mel bitching about in a medical wing. Yeah someone else brought that up about the radio. Very possible. I just think they go through a lot of hoops to get to the house, basement, right radio frequency, then get questioned about what base she was at for it to be a ruse. Too high brow to be part of the rattler faction. So she gets to Catalina Island and gets abducted… again? I’m not buying it at this time.
In terms of your skepticism, the post game, new game plus menu literally confirms that they're real because it's the location that they mentioned and Abby/Levs boat. It's an implied narrative that they made it.
Ellie unites with Dina and JJ. The fireflies track ellie down, finding out she has a family now. Knowing that ellie won't let herself go, they attack Jackson, kill most of the people living there, just to get ellie. Ellie escapes with JJ, Dina dies. Whatever happens during the process of ellie trying to escape the fireflies, abby and lev are tasked to find the anonymous immune girl (ellie). Eventually, they meet. After a long fight, abby finds out that she has a child. Abby then refuses to take ellie to the fireflies, but instead helps her escape. At the end they somehow find out that the fireflies were lying about a cure, and they just wanted ellie because her immunity can benefit something for only the fireflies, instead of all of humanity. Abby, lev & ellie are all pissed. They head to the firefly base, kill the leaders and elite members of the Fireflies who knew about the truth, and then inform the rest of the crew members about the true intentions of the greedy fireflies, which then dissolves the group, and also the hope for a cure for mankind. Abby then understands why Joel did what he did, and ellie understands why abby did what she did, and then the tensions between the 2 close for good.
Lot of people assume that Ellie and Dina end up together again. I really hope not, and if they do, we need to see them mend fences on screen and not in between the end of part 2 and beginning of part 3. Ellie walked out on her and left them vulnerable. Dina at the farm with JJ by herself is not ideal. Something goes wrong and no one there to help, and the amount of labor it takes to keep that place running isn’t a small task. I think people are overlooking that.
@@TyranosauRoss I was just looking for a valid reason for abby not to capture ellie, but instead would help her out against the fireflies, and the only thing that came in mind was that ellie would have a family to take care of.
@@AmarJ. they very well may end up together. If so that’s fine, I just think we need to see the repair work happen in real time. Ellie really hung them out to dry. I hope we get a new character(s) but we’ll see.
Ellie had a lot of survival guilt and I guarantee you that if the fireflies would’ve said, the cure means taking your life, she would’ve said 100%. Yes. the issue here is that she was still basically a child you don’t allow children to make life-changing decisions completely on their own. Apocalypse or not kids are still kids and they don’t see things with the clarity that adult experience does. There’s a whole conversation about this in the first game where Joel is telling her they could just go back to Tommy’s. She said they had to go through with the no matter what so you’re kind of wrong there just FYI. I kind of agree with you on the story, but I also think that it’s gonna be more of a thing where people know or at least they find out somehow that Ellie was from Jackson and the fireflies are going to want to mount an expedition to Jackson and Lev and Abbey end up leaving in order to warn Ellie. Abbey and Lev get to Jackson a lot faster because it’s just the two of them vs some big expedition only to find out that Ellie is in some other dangerous place or something, they go find her and they let her know that Jackson is in danger and Ellie and Abbey both go back, and Try to stop the fireflies from attacking Jackson. Abbey will most likely get killed and Ellie will become the new Joel to Lev
I don’t think sacrificing her life for the vaccine is even in her orbit of understanding at 14, therefore the no matter what part doesn’t apply to that. I think no matter what means trekking across the country making themselves more vulnerable to infected and/or Hunter attacks. If Joel, who is a late 40’s/early 50’s human in this game didn’t consider life sacrifice for the cure, I don’t think Ellie did either. As for being 100% certain she’d consent to the surgery if the FF asked her, I don’t know. She shows so much youth and passion in the game I don’t know if she’d be ready to give that up. I’d lean towards she would’ve said yes, but I can’t say that with 100% certainty. I guess that means the concept for part 3 is forgiveness. I don’t know. Can’t see it taking Druck 3 plus years to come up with that, but fun to speculate. I do feel certain the FF will have an impact in part 3, and that they will get wind of Ellie and go after her, and that puts Abby in a situation to make a decision.
@@TyranosauRoss I don't think Ellie even truly knows if she would have or not. Its def a hard one to pick coz Ellie is such a conflicted character. Ellie didn't want Joel to abandon her when they got to Tommy's dam in the first installment because she quickly grew to care about him, but then she begrudges him (years later) when she finds out he was not willing to let her go. It's really only in hindsight that she expresses that her life would have mattered. In the moment though... I'm not so sure.
@@Groovy75x I agree with you. Easy to assume what one would do in that situation till it actually happens. She could say, 2-4 years later, that she would’ve done it but can’t be certain in the moment. There’s no way that crossed her or Joel’s mind when going to Salt Lake. She even says when we’re done here we can go wherever you want. I think that’s proof enough she wasn’t thinking this was a life sacrificing procedure.
@@TyranosauRoss Yeah man. Didn't mean for the comment to come across negative towards another sequel, I'm sure ND can give us another masterpiece (here's hoping).
I think, imo, that Ellie should be trying to live happily. Living near Dinah, who's in a relationship now. Ellie sees JJ still. Abby arrives at the fireflies group but someone survived the old group and knows that Abby helped the scars. They torture Abby till she tells them where she saw Ellie last. They go there and Ellie is gone, mission or hunting, the town is destroyed and JJ is kidnapped, Dinah left major injured. Abby is able to escape. Her amd levy escape, levy talks her into saving Ellie. Ellie comes back to a burnt down town, hundreds killed and Tommy who heard a distress call over a walkie-talkie. He and Ellie reluctantly help each other, they care about each other but are fractured. They follow the trail that was left for them. Ellie and Tommy head towards. Abby and levy the opposite. Abby saves Ellie from being killed and Tommy reluctantly lets her live. Tommy and levy are killed and Ellie taken. Abby comes to save the day. She saves Ellie again but is killed. Ellie Traverses a large building complex killing off the infected and Fireflies till they reach the top. Ellie does a boss type battle with a big name that has infected "pets" she wins and is left with JJ, they travel back to Dinah and live happily. Have forgiven Abby, been forgiven by Tommy and ultimately forgives herself.
Interesting theory that I can get behind a bit. I just can’t see the story starting with Ellie being back with Dina. I think when Dina left the farm she left it for good. That means Ellie too. When Ellie parts from D and goes to Santa Barbara that’s it for Dina. I can see them reconciling at some point in part 3 but I think they show us the mending process in game time, not in between the games off screen, otherwise Ellie’s choice to continue the Abby chase has no consequence. Ultimately I do believe that Abby wants to close that chapter but something from her past, similar to Joel’s, will come back to haunt her and forces her to rip that band aid off. Thank you for watching!
What if abby is immune now because she bit Ellies fingers off? Cheesy ret-con esque plot amendment, but if abby was tested immediately after finding the fireflies and they say "wait shes immue, or showing signs of immunity" and suddenly abby needs to sacrifice herself for thw world that would be a parallel they could draw up. How does Lev take the news that abby has to decide to sacrifice herself, maybe abby is forced to be operated on to attempt to extract a cure. I think there is alot of ways it could go down, and obviously alot of people that are 10x the writer that i am. Bur a situation where abby gets to the fireflies and its not sunshine and rainbows, maybe they're cutthroat talking about selling the vaccine, discuss that it probably won't work but they should capture Ellie anyway to try. Maybe abby gets to the fireflies with good intentions tells them about a cure/woman whos immune, and instead of happy go lucky pursuit to find ellie, abbys new group is ruthless and moralless when it comes to the extent they'll go to get ellie. Maybe it all comes down to abby needing to choose a side when they arrive at Jackson planning to wipe out the community to get to ellie and abby/lev need to go AWOL to redeem themselves
I agree that Abby will in time see that Catalina Island isn’t what she thought it would be, and I do think that it’ll have to do with the pursuit of Ellie. She was really young when she was last with them, and she just served under a tyrant in Isaac, so she’ll see through the BS this time around. As for Abby being immune, I don’t think Ellie’s powers work like that. Seems more like a preventative than an aggressor. Kinda like using the nail bomb in part 1 defensively opposed to throwing it and using it offensively. I appreciate you watching and reaching out 🙏 apologies for the delay
Maybe Ellie intentionally let them go? My thinking is, is that they want the audience to think Ellie has a heart and let Abby and Lev go by the goodness of her heart. BUT they might twist the story and tie in the ending of TLOU2 when Abby bit Ellie's fingers off. There could be a possibility that Abby maybe infected by Ellie's blood by doing that action, and Ellie may have let abby go in hopes she infected her that way?
@@ssmmiilleeyy88 infected Abby or made her immune? If I recall correctly the only other person Ellie bites is David and we know what happens to him not long after. I think it’s unclear what Ellie’s bite, saliva, blood can do to someone normal. The show plays with that a little when Ellie uses her blood to help Sam in episode 5 and it doesn’t do anything. I got the vibe that the show was saying it was a kid’s foolish desperation to use their “power” in an offensive way when it’s really just a preventative measure for the person carrying the immunity. I know that’s the show, but with Druckmann involved with it, I can’t see him allowing Mazin to go way off the grid on that.
The problem with that story line I think is that if Ellie were to sacrifice herself for a vaccine to the fireflies that would render Joel’s death and efforts and everything he did for her pointless
Yeah but that’s Ellie’s whole point that she makes to him. He took away her ability to make a choice. Not that the fireflies gave her a choice either. I agree with Joel’s decisions. She was too young to make a choice there. At that age you can’t understand what you’re sacrificing. Now that she’s older she’ll have the ability to make the decision herself.
@@TyranosauRossI agree %100 I just think that maybe Joel’s death would make her maybe not want to sacrifice herself now cause he died so she can live he knew the day would come that someone would seek revenge on him and he was ok with that to save Ellie but if Ellie went on and sacrificed herself to the fireflies then that would mean Joel killed Abby’s father and all those fireflies and all the events of part 2 that happened for no reason from a player point of view I’d be asking myself what was the point of all those deaths and hours of gameplay to end the story with something they could’ve done in part 1 maybe if they could find a way to engineer a vaccine without killing Ellie it would make a lot more sense
My idea was to take the series a bit into biofantasy. Some warlord shows up at Jackson to lay siege, demanding their submission with claims that he can control the infected, but its a ploy to capture Ellie, who the warlord sees as a potential counter to his budding empire (he can actually control the infected thanks to experimental surgery). Game would go back and forth as Ellie and a couple other immune persons in a more of a survival horror gameplay loop and then a younger core featuring JJ led by Dina who tries fo rescue her. More focus on team play with co-op possible. Jackson is destroyed so no one has anything to lose by risking everything.
How does the warlord know about Ellie? Former FF or something? Interesting thought. I do think in Part 3 Ellie is going to be a hotly pursued commodity.
@@Midnight_Wesker I’m interested to see what his involvement is. He had an ending to part 2 that I don’t like for him. I’ve always thought his conversation with Ellie at the farm was out of character. Weird for him to put that pressure on her to go. he went to a dark place. Hopefully he makes it back out.
It’s hard to do a story revolving around everyone wanting the cure when the only people that know of the immunity outside of Dina and Tommy is Abby….. who is done with Ellie and vice versa. Unless that’s what sets off the story, but my question is, how would Abby react to the FF wanting to look for Ellie? Why would she want to pursue that, it’s just gonna bring up the past all over again, unless Abby maybe wants to potentially help Ellie and that’s what brings the trilogy full circle. But I still don’t think Abby is relevant anymore, let her seek refuge with the FF and be done with it. Both Ellie and Abby did too much to each other, how could they possibly then work together even set 4-5 years later 😂
I agree that Ellie and Abby are not picking each other for a group project, but I do think if it comes down to it, Abby would feel obligated to save Ellie if she knew the FF were gunning for her. Thing is, she’d only feel obligated to help her if she knew she didn’t want to sacrifice her life. If she wanted to sacrifice her life then it wouldn’t make sense for Abby to get in the way. She’d be indifferent. I’m sure I’m a hundred miles away from the truth on this so only time will tell. The theorizing has been fun. Hope we don’t have to wait two years to get some more crumbs.
@@TyranosauRoss thinking about it today, the fireflies have remained relevant in some way. You’d think they’d be present in the 3rd, they kinda have to be. And this is also something HUGE that they could potentially delve into, perhaps if there’s a time jump, what if Ellie even lied to Tommy about Abby’s fate (assuming Ellie and Tommy have become a duo that is). How would Tommy feel about Abby still being alive? That’s where the story hits a brick wall, how do you justify Tommy not immediately going for Abby as soon as he realises this, it will be a head scratcher until a reveal trailer lol
@@kamakazilee6066 I think Ellie definitely does not tell Tommy about what really happened. The funny thing is if Ellie doesn’t oblige Tommy’s request they actually get the outcome that Tommy would’ve wanted, which is Abby dying. Ellie does what he wants and she lives. I just think there’s too much FF talk in the Abby portions of the game, mainly with Owen at first, and then when she goes to Santa Barbara, for it to not play a part in 3.
@@TyranosauRoss yeah I agree, I feel like Tommy if he sees Abby again, he may not be able to help himself, it was his brother at the end of the day, hard to predict. I also think a great way to keep Joel somewhat at the heart of the story in one way is if, Ellie doesn’t try hide her immunity anymore, and the plot is kinda like ‘this is why Joel insisted on her hiding it’ even if that stemmed from a selfish act in the first place. Ellie hopefully has finally realised her life is worth living, and it’s funny too, Ellie’s fear of being alone may be what keeps her happy from now on, nobody to care for means no survivors guilt, Tommy is the exception, given how close they’d become, he’s basically her uncle 😂
@@kamakazilee6066 I forgot about Ellie telling Sam that before he turned. What her fear is. Now she’s likely living it. She’s also older now so maybe it doesn’t bother her as much. I agree with you though. She has a big heart and cares so with no one in her immediate life maybe she sees the value in it. I’m sure at some point that changes though. She’ll come across someone she cares for.
Personally I think that the theme for part 3 is going to be forgiveness, or at least it should be a big part of it. Since we're on that boat, I think it could be super interesting to very slowly develop some sort of forgiveness arc between Abby and Ellie. Force them to team up for some reason, have Lev be there as well to act as a sort of mediator, make him have a friendly relationship with Ellie and that way he becomes the bridge between the Abby and Ellie. The two characters have immaculate parallels and even druckmann said that in different circumstances, the two girls would've been good friends... So I think It'd definitely be a risky move, but at the end of the day, the two girls understand each other better than anyone. So, however that plays into the main story, I would find it very compelling and interesting to watch. Maybe they could even become the people Ellie would want to live for. But who knows?
I’m with you. I think forgiveness could be the bond between Abby and Ellie. I think the FF are going to be the force that pushes Abby and Ellie to work together. And good point about Lev. He can look at things more neutrally and reason with people.
Love the ideas but the starting point seems farfetched. Why on earth would a random grunt know all of this information specifically to Abby’s backstory, Elle/abbys relationship and outcome (more so the Santa Barbara stuff) and Joel’s backstory as well. They wouldn’t know that Elle was immune either. So the launching point to get Abby to include Elle needs to be reworked here!
Thank you for watching. People talk, for starters. We see how fast word travels when Abby and Manny get to the fob in day 1. Isaac tells them to quit spreading rumors. I’m sure people would talk if Abby and her crew left for a couple months to do some covert op. Jordan definitely talks, let’s be real.
@@TyranosauRoss all fair points. They wouldn’t know about elle specifically in that case I wouldn’t think though. Abby was done with WLF after going after the fireflies so I doubt they would have all the outcome of Ellie sparing/still alive. Ellie left a wake of bodies and they went to war immediately with the other faction so I just down information would drop for a random is all. But again. I absolutely loved the ideas and concepts. Love to see what else comes of LOU 3!
This is all great theories, I love seeing The Last of Us community trying to keep Ellie's story alive. Here is what is going to happen. Ellie and Abby have moved on and have no interest in ever hunting each other down again or going on some mission for the cure. All of that is in the past now and we will not find them in a continuance to seek revenge. Revenge is long gone. I think that after all of the chaos Abby and Lev went through with Isaac attacking Levs family and invading their land and Abby standing up to Isaac to save Lev which caused all of The WLF to go after Abby and Abby defending herself and Lev, killing them all as they went. This causes The WLF to long for revenge, their sole mission will be to hunt them down and make them pay. In doing so, they team with the Rattlers to create a force to be reckoned with. In the meantime, Abby and Lev get back to the aquarium and find her friends dead and they go after Ellie, Jessie, Tommy and Dina. Killing Jessie and shooting Tommy and almost killing Dina, Abby lets Dina and Ellie go. Fast forward to Ellie changing her mind and deciding to go after Abby despite Dina's insistence for her to stay. Ellie sets off to find Abby. In the mean time, Abby and Lev get captured by the Rattlers. Ellie goes after them killing Rattlers as she goes and creating chaos and leaving a path of destruction until she finds Abby and Lev strung up and left to die on the beach. We all know how that plays out. Fast forward and we see that The WLF and the Rattlers are hell bent on finding Ellie and Abby to seek justice for what they did in their battle for revenge against each other. The Rattlers hunt down and capture Ellie and The WLF hunt down and capture Abby but Lev escapes. Abby and Ellie end up being brought to the same place, maybe an island and are imprisoned and tortured. They both still hate each other but soon come to realize that they both have the same enemy and may need to work together to escape. Meanwhile, Tommy and a couple of new characters find out that Ellie was taken so they form a plan to go rescue her and maybe even get help from the Fireflies. After the rescue team arrive on the island and begin their mission, they are met with resistance and have to fight for survival. At some point Tommy is fighting for his life in the pouring rain and is just about to be killed by a member of The WLF when out of no where, an arrow comes flying through the air and pierces the WLF soldiers skull and he drops to the ground. Tommy jumps up and looks around and sees Lev standing there breathing heavy and soaked by the rain while holding his bow. They all make their way inside and find Ellie and Abby weakened and beaten and bloody. They grab them and quickly escort them out, fighting with everything they have as they make their escape. They put Ellie and Abby in a boat and begin making their way away from the shore to safety. Just when they think they are safe, a boat comes rushing at them closing in fast. Lev and Tommy begin shooting at the boat killing the driver but as the boat begins to pass them very closely, to our surprise, we see Isaac do a hurtling jump out of the boat and trying to land in Ellie and Abby's boat with Tommy standing over them but his back is to Isaac and he doesn't see the blade about to be slammed into his back. Ellie sees Isaac in midair and musters her last ounce of strength and in slow motion, jumps up and out of the boat, meeting Isaac in mid air as their bodies crash into each other. They both hit the water and sink. Tommy panics and dives in but is never able to find Ellie. They presume she is dead and make their way back home. It turns out that Isaac didn't die from Yara's gunshot and was still alive. When the group gets back home, they tell everyone the news that Ellie is dead, Abby is stricken with grief because she felt like it should have been her because she is the one that Isaac wanted. The scene cuts to Dina on her knees at Joel's grave with tears running down her face, the camera cuts to Joel's tombstone and then slowly pans over to reveal a tombstone next to him with Ellies name on it. The scene fades to black with the sounds of water licking at the shore, the camera fades back on to reveal water washing up sand on the beach and slowly pans up to reveal a shoe, a very special shoe, a shoe that Ellie is known to wear. The camera continues to pan until we see a leg and then eventually a hand, someone is lying face down on the beach and they are missing 2 fingers. it fades to black again and the credits roll. Now here is a shocker to the end. It may be a bit corny but what if, as an encore, after the credits finish rolling and the screen fades to black, A man is laying in bed, we cant see his face but hear him mumbling, he suddenly makes a loud gasp and yells "Ellie", as we see Joel laying in the bed, sweating and heart racing as he wakes up from the horrible dream he had while he was unconscious as his body was recovering from a wound from being struck in the head with a golf club. We see the scene flash back to hear Abby say, " You dont get to rush this" as she hits him one time with the club and everything goes black.
I've seen many Abby-Ellie theories and quite honestly they always feel forced and unrealistic, and especially knowing Naughty Dog they won't go for a predictable outcome or story. People should let Abby live her life on her island in peace, that makes no sense for her to ever cross Ellie's path again. I don't ever see any theories including JJ as a central character ( with a 12-15 years time skip ) There's a lot of narrative potential for what could be done between Ellie and JJ, ( and Dina ) with Ellie maybe feeling guilt over Jesse's death and creating some communication difficulty between the two. Idk I feel like a Ellie / JJ duo would be some kind of way to also go full circle and remind us of some part 1 moments when roles where reversed and Ellie was the idealist hopefull kid and now would be this much more mature and stable adult
I think Ellie crawling back to Dina and putting JJ as a central figure in the story is the kind of predictability you talk about. I hope we get some new character introductions that have impacts on the story. I think people underestimate what Ellie did when she left the farm. Ellie made her choice and it wasn’t Dina, it was Abby and Santa Barbara. I don’t see a fence being mended with Dina in between games. For me that has to happen on screen so we can see the effort it takes. Dina strikes me as someone that means what she says. I’d be disappointed if we get into 3 and Ellie is back with Dina without any on screen explanation as to how they got back cause Dina leaving the farm was her reply to Ellie for leaving. She needs someone she can rely on and trust and Ellie broke that for her. And it’s not just for their relationship, it’s her kid. She can’t stay at the remote farm with just herself and JJ. She needed Ellie’s help there and she walked out the door.
@@TyranosauRoss I wouldn't say it's that predictable, Naughty Dog deliberately showed us Ellie alone in the end, "sad and lonely", at least in surface. And I think it was to mislead us. Ellie choose Abby over her family, but as Neil Druckman said, this decision is assimilated to a premeditated su*cide. Ellie thinks she's probably going to die going there and that's kind of the point. She's choosing to get away before doing things to herself and potentially expose her family to it. In her journal there's some page talking about how she would never want Dina to ever see her dead and she would rather die alone. It's true that Dina is a strong-minded woman, and forgive or at least tolerate Ellie would take some time and would for sure not be an overnight process. This evolution in their relationship could totally be showed into flashbacks ( and playable flashbacks ) during the game, just like in part II flashbacks showed Ellie and Joel relationship evolution. Joel taught her throught part II, that the universe won't wait on your relationships statuses, that literaly the last flashback in the last scene of the game, when she told him she would try to forgive him, then the next day he died. Sometimes, it can be too late. I think it's one of the hardest lessons she learned so that's why it would make sense for her to go back to her people and put her efforts towards saving her relationships. Ellie could prove throught her actions, with a changed attitude and mindset, she's more than words back in Jackson. Dina, after some time, could give a second chance to her knowing her focus has shifted, she's capable of understanding, that Ellie was not past her traumas and obsession at the time she needed to be unfortunately, but things have changed. People can redeem themselves. Dina don't care as a person for Abby but, learning Ellie went all alone and all this way and that her final decision was to spare her means to Dina that Ellie's finally letting go, that her focus and mindset have changed this time, for good. Ellie's ready for the future, not the past. Throughout the saga, one of the core elements is about finding a family, a community. Finding people you care about that cares about you and are ready to put you above anything else, any cause or ideals. Like Riley ready to stop her enrollment in the Fireflies to stay with Ellie, and of course Joel saving her. I don't mean that in the way of Dina should forget Ellie and put her on a pedestal. I just really think that Ellie has found her home in Jackson and the people within it and is ready to put the work into rebuilding what's maybe repearable. She's also an orphaned kid living most of her life without caring people around her and I think she wouldlike to be present in JJ's life and for him to be loved and cared for, but ultimately the decision would be Dina's. Ellie also has a leader potential hinted in many ways and by multiple people, most of them leaders themselves. She has all the skills in her to become this experimented, wise and powerfull mentor. In American Daughter, we learn that all her life Ellie has known the system. She comes from another Fedra QZ and stayed all her life in Fedra schools. QZ's are inhumane, individual liberties, dignity, comfort are all severely restricted. She has seen all that. She also saw the Firefly side, in American Daughter and Left Behind she shows no will to join their cause at all, trying multiple times to stop her friend enrolling. In part I she's more hopefull and idealist and really want to believe in the cause, only because she wants to save the world. In part II with Joel's loss and her being more mature she slowly come to realize the ideals of the Firelfies weren't that pure and understand Joel's decision, because she litteraly lived what he intensely feared. She experienced his brutal and sudden death, just like they would have taken her suddently and abruptly from Joel back then. She realized sacrificing any lives for any cause is morally appalling and hypocritical. She also realized that these people, wether Fedra or Fireflies, are clinging on to these impossible ideals like absolutely wanting to restore the past as it was, democracy, government etc, outdated political and social structures in a completely and radically changed world. Fedra and Fireflies were made by people who knew the old society and lived in it so they were clinging onto that but Ellie understood these would not be obtainable overnight with the world's state and the way people act all over the country. She understood rebuilding society will never be a rushed sacrifice but rather a slow process that takes works and time. In her journal in Santa Barbara, Ellie drew the logo of Rattlers, and underneath, wrote : " Scars. Wolves. Fireflies. Fuck all these groups" Ellie is grouping the Fireflies with a bunch of cultists, slavers, brutal militias, showing a clear reject. She saw every sides of the coin, travelling the country and seeing how many factions operates, and she has the keys to compare all this to her life and the people in Jackson. Ellie becoming the next leader of Jackson ( or implied that she will be after Maria ) in the end of Part III is realizing her destiny in a much more powerfull way than dying for it. She will help in shape a better world based on ideals adapted to her time, in her own terms, with all her lifetime to do whatever she can, as a great mentor to many, and with the experiences and strength she would have gained throughout the saga.
@@Binu-t1l I can’t see Abby not being in Part 3. I’d be shocked actually. I don’t think she’ll be as playable a character as she was in 2, but she’ll be in it. I’d bet a Savage Starlight trading card on it.
Abby & Lev on Firefly island is of no interest to me whatsoever. Ellie going on a journey to reunite with Dina and JJ does. What Ellie is prepared to do to find balance in her life.
And where are Dina and JJ? Probably a two hour trip down the mountain in Jackson with Jesse’s family. That sounds like a short journey. I’m more interested in Ellie’s story too but can’t deny that Abby’s destination leaves some meat on the bone for her story.
@@TyranosauRoss I don't sense them completely abandoning the farmhouse just to go two hours down the road. Dina made a deliberate decision to leave Ellie. There's little point in being so easily found.
@@KJGould I don’t think she cares about being easily found. It’s about safety. The farmhouse is an island. If Dina needs help, especially by herself, she has a while to wait. I think her leaving the farmhouse has just as much to do with safety as it does forgetting Ellie. Jackson gives her and JJ safety and a chance for his grandparents to be involved in his life. Dina probably wants security at this point, leaving the Seattle/Abby stuff behind, a quiet life. I can’t see her taking a pass on Jackson just so she can play hard to get with Ellie and see if she can figure out where she went. Ellie could be dead for all she knows.
There needs to be a reconciliation with Tommy, Ellie and Abby, for them to all to have a resumption. To come too terms with what happened. Or something
@@cake260 I can see it possibly happening with Ellie but not going to happen with Tommy. With Ellie we already saw her forgive to some extent, or maybe understand is a better word. Ellie was already trying to put this behind her when Tommy came knocking. Tommy’s future in the game may be as mysterious as Ellie’s. Gotta wonder if Ellie tells him the truth or tries to avoid him.
Last of Us Part II story was so sloppy. The plot was good, but needed some serious rearrangement. Imo the order of events in the game should have been: * Go hunting as Joel and Tommy. End with them getting ambushed but no faces or anything revealed. * Flash to Abby’s story. You’re suddenly playing as her. Stay as Abby all the way up to the big reveal about Joel and her dad. * Flash back to Joel and Tommy being ambushed, but now you’re Abby and her POV. You’re given the choice to kill Joel or not. If you choose not to, one of the people in her group does it. Otherwise you press square or whatever and beat him to death. * Either way, Abby flees and you’re now conflicted. * Now play as Ellie and go on the revenge mission. Literally same story but change around the order of events, and you get to kill Joel (if you wanna). Hoping they get things right in LoU part III!
I think you bring up a really good point about not revealing Abby and her crew right away. Like when Owen shows her Jackson Hole and how big it is. I think that part shows Abby in the light we see her in when we control her pov, which is a normal person. It shows her insecurities like Owen/Mel, fear of heights, not abandoning her mission. That part humanizes her. When she kills Joel she looks and acts like a Sith Lord, and comes off as this heinous person. For the sake of surprise, I’d rather they cut out the first little Abby part you control and let us find out later that she is a normal person that had a grudge to settle. That way it eliminates this gray area she comes off as when we see her showing her vulnerabilities one moment, and going apeshit the next. I can also understand that ND wanted us to feel safe around her at first and then pull the rug out from us. I can’t imagine Abby’s crew would be too pleased if they accompanied her to Jackson and then she couldn’t pull the trigger. If that happened, plot wise it would need to set something up later in the story for that to come back against Abby. Interesting points! I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment.
This takes away the feeling of being let down by Abby’s choice to kill Joel. You just spent the first 10 mins of the game keeping her alive. Giving you the “choice” of killing Joel is silly. The whole point of Abby killing him was because he killed her dad. Providing the option to someone in the crew do it COMPLETELY strips the personal aspect away from the violence while undercutting the theme of forgiveness and making the ending less intriguing/intense. Why would Ellie’s decision to stop fighting at the end move me when i tried to choose to not kill Joel with Abby towards the beginning?
@@trilliam8806 these are fair points about the choice. I still think the order of events would’ve been improved by leaving Joel’s ambush as a cliffhanger until after playing as Abby. Personally it would add to the heinous ness of the revenge of you were forced to kill Joel as Abby manually. This would make Ellie’s choice to end the cycle more important. Again, my main thought is just that the plot line had good ideas but poorly executed. A simple rearranging of the events would improve this.
@@trilliam8806 yeah I agree about Abby optionally killing Joel. That would also alter who Ellie is hunting down and make her whole mission convoluted. Yeah she’s going after the salt lake crew in Seattle but she’s doing it to get to Abby, the main focus of her revenge. And like I said before, that would make for a weird dynamic in Abby’s group. They follow her to Jackson for this and then she couldn’t pull the trigger. Plus it’s the whole reason why she trains. She does it to be as strong as she can for that moment she finally faces Joel.
Completely disagree. The game worked so well for me because I didn't know what Abby's motivations were. I was as motivated by rage and grief as Ellie was to hunt down every last one of the Wolves and slaughter them... and THEN, I learned the truth. Still, I was determined to ignore it... even though I knew it was wrong. I was making excuses for myself and all the carnage I had wrought. By the end of Abby's story, though, I was lost. How could I hate Abby? Her story in part 2 is Joel's story in part 1. To hate Abby would be to hate Joel... By the end of their first fight... I was empty. As empty as Ellie. How could any of this be resolved? How could anyone involved find peace? I didn't know how to move forward either, but still it killed me to see Ellie so consumed by hate and grief. Because of course... she still didn't know why Abby killed Joel. But I did. By the end of the game, I was exhausted. The entire final fight I was pleading with a God I didn't believe in that Ellie and Abby would. Just. Stop. Fighting... And then they did. And we watched Ellie forgive Joel. I don't believe he needed to be forgiven... and someday I think Ellie will realize that. I think that'll be part 3 territory. More importantly, I forgave Ellie. Prematurely, perhaps. And while I don't think Ellie did, I also forgave Abby. And I've never felt such relief... The game would not have had this same emotional impact on me without the reveal after Ellie's brutal journey for revenge... No other game has ever made me feel such complex emotions and identify with the characters so much. No game has made me identify with a villain as much... I felt everything Ellie and Abby felt, every step of the way. All of that is lost by revealing Abby's motivations before Ellie's three days in Seattle. When it ends on the guitar, now ownerless... I, too, was ready to let go and move on. But this time, I knew how. And I hope and believe Ellie will discover that, too. And I've been waiting ever since to see Ellie go on that final journey of redemption. Someday. ❤
Pt 3 will begin with Abby and Lev finding the fireflies who are in contact with a firefly cell from South America who has the oriiginal Patient 0 who is infected and contagious but not turned or growing fungus from their body. One of the doctors working their finds out that by combining both Ellie’s and patient 0’s dna a cure can be made but only if they are alive. This will take us to back to pt 1 where Joel saving Ellie from the surgery actually saved the worlds only hope for a cure. Have them travel to the WHO in Europe and leave from Boston harbor and Bill can help them find a working boat.
1) If Abby has a material part in Part III then Neil has made a terrible mistake. 2) Abby and her crew kept the Joel murder trip secret, so the prediction makes no sense. 3) "That girl knows where Ellie is." So what? It would a retcon of a retcon for the Fireflies to claim they can still make the vaccine. 4) Ellie also knows the vaccine cannot be made, so that part also makes no sense. 5) I like your enthusiasm though. Keep it up.
People with power always think they can do more than what they’re capable of. Fireflies may not have the doctor to execute a vaccine anymore (that we know of) but the knowledge of the subject still being out there that thwarted them may cause them to do something irrational. Like thinking they’re owed something they’re not entitled to. Wouldn’t be the first time. I’d be stunned if Abby isn’t in the next game. I truly believe that her storyline is what puts the gears in motion for part 3. Otherwise, Ellie is out there doing what? Abby being with the fireflies brings the noise to Ellie, even with Abby not wanting that. Abby then has to act. Abby remembers that Ellie ultimately let her and Lev go. She chooses to help her. I appreciate you watching and the comment. Endure and survive.
Ugh what pretentiousness. It just needs to progress the story, not a "concept". Part 1 did not have this "love concept", it's something Druckman retrofitted to justify the horrible story of part 2.
I don’t think it needs a concept either actually. I’m just citing what the man said since he kind of has influence on the stories ya know? Thanks for watching BJ
Every story has at least one theme. Part 1's theme, the major overall one, is most definitely about love, which is something that can be explored in many different ways and is throughout the game. I'm not going to write an entire essay here to explain that to you. You can go listen to the commentary between Neil, Troy, and Ashley on the PS4 version released one year after the initial release to confirm that. But since you don't think that's the overall theme of the story, how exactly did you interpret Part 1? Themes are what drives the story, drives the characters through their conflicts, their decisions, their resolutions. Without a theme, you have nothing.
@@SpaghettiYOLOKing I reference the themes in the video. I know what the part 1 and 2 themes are. Not disagreeing with that. The point I should’ve clarified is that I think it’s odd that it’s taken 3.5 years to find a theme before considering the story. Druck said I have the theme, not the story. I find it hard to believe that he hasn’t thought about what happens to Ellie, Tommy, Dina, Abby, XYZ new character to introduce into the story because he didn’t have a theme yet. Like he can’t consider the story progression without first confirming the theme. But I’m also not a video game writer so what do I know. But I think that’s odd/hard to believe. I think you may be talking to the other person though, but still wanted to clarify myself. I appreciate you watching.
Thanks for all the love and discussion on this video. Means a lot. Please subscribe for more TLoU content!
Building. The concept of building. Y’know who had it figured out? Jackson. They built a home filled it with people they care about and defend it because it’s worth it. Lev and Abby barely scrapped by with nothing chasing hope someone else promised but I think we all know that’s B.S you cant live life off concepts and ideas forever lest you wind up alone with nothing but your pride. If Ellie killed Abby you know what would be different then? She’d be dead. And Ellie would still have lost everything for it. Ideology doesn’t mean diddly if you’ve no one to speak it to, the only thing hate shares with love is it takes two to tango
Sorry for missing this Spartan but I agree with you. You could really feel the community in Jackson in part 2. I just wish we got more of it. The amount of detail they added was something to take in.
Did Abby even know who Ellie was in regards to being immune?
I think the only one who connected the dots was Nora, right?
Nora is the only one that actually says something to Ellie about it. You’re right. As for Abby, she’s eavesdropping on her dad and Marlene’s conversation in her 4 years earlier flashback. She says to him if it was me I’d want you to do it, so she definitely knows what they’re talking about. I think it’s safe to say she’s heard of Ellie’s name around Marlene before. Did she know that was Ellie in Jackson when she stormed through the door? Probably not. Had other things going on there. Abby may not have realized exactly who Ellie is till the theater confrontation when Ellie says Joel did what he did to save her. She only references Joel in her pov up to that point.
Technically, Ellie herself tells Abby that after she killed Jessie. Of course, Abby might think she was lying to save her friends. But I think she would connect the dots
@@theoflores2353 yeah I think she knew too. It is interesting that she never voiced any inner monologue about Ellie in her pov. Thank you for watching.
I think the arc should be: love, hate, indifference.
I'd have Ellie feeling heartbroken from the loss of Dina or J.J. or Tommy to the infection.
Because of this, she wants to pursue the innoculation to prevent more people from turning. (It isn't a "cure" as that would mean you can take an infected and reverse the infection but I'll use the term for simplicity)
After hearing about the Fireflies still existing, she contacts them via ham radio.
They send Abby to her with the location of a FEDRA doctor that can make the "cure".
As they travel they discover that rumors of an "immune woman" has started to spread. Between the Fireflies that chased Joel (they saw Ellie in his arms so know female/young and would have been told not to shoot her and why), the WLF who saw her fall with Nora without a mask and didn't find her body/or was seem leaving the hospital after killing Nora (and maybe even one of the freed Rattler captives who saw the bite on her hand and sees her again later). The secret is out.
Whomever controls the distribution of the cure would have the most power.
There are smugglers who want to find her to make a fortune selling the "cure", groups like the Rattlers who like the chaos and the power they currently have and would horde the cure for their own, FEDRA wants to regain power and be relevent again, Fireflies want to prevent that and both see the other as criminal and not worthy of having the "cure".
There are religious factions who think a "cure" is "Thwarting God's Will" and want to prevent its creation, etc.
Seeing the reality, that humans don't deserve to be saved, Ellie "deletes herself" in a cave. A few months later her body has spored (blue to contrast with the orange) and you see some drift towards children playing or the spores land on a clicker and it convulses and expires.
I can see some of this happening. Like Ellie losing someone due to the infection and then she seeks out the FF and others try to intervene so they have the Elder Wand (Ellie), and then they all have a big team battle over her. I can actually see something like that playing out. Good thought!! And thank you for watching.
@@TyranosauRoss
I think this way the history of how the rumors spread and what group wants what can be gleaned from collectables/artifacts and overheard comments and maybe even an encounter with an old Smuggling buddy of Joel's that has no clue she is the woman he is hunting and helps out after seeing Joel's watch but turns on her when he finds out she is the Immune One.
The game levels are first find a hospital, secure it, kidnap the doctor, quests to get the supplies and equipment so the surgical bay is ready, save someone who people assume is her and plan on "testing", etc.
For every betrayal/ugly of humanity, show something bright about humanity (art, compassion, self-sacrifice) too.
But in the end she thinks the good isn't worth the bad. She goes from indifferent about her life to indifferent about humanity as well. She has lost hope and doesn't want to be used as a pawn, but the gamer/audience is left with hope via the spores
The ending being about the fact that it isn't about deserving to be saved, but being saved despite not deserving it.
I'd rather see reconstruction opposed to indifference. Carry the consequences of the 2nd game but offer penance. See the film demolition for a better idea of what I'm talking about.
@@hoshireed77I have a pretty similar concept of the story that is TLOU 3.
here it is.
my interpretation of the 3rd game is going to have to be a standoff compared to the previous ones, so that'll mean that you'll won't play as the standard parallels that the 1st two TLOU games had, such as playing as Sarah & Joel as the 1st protagonist you play as in each TLOU game, then onwards you play the 2 remaining as what the 2 TLOU games did; TLOU3 will scrap those vignettes & introduce a new character immediately, the introduction will be a lot like how Banshee's main protagonist would be introduced (especially the song that it uses for the main protagonist), after the intro regarding a black screen & some text fonts to introduce a new TLOU game, it will then transition towards the main protagonist walking like a blur kinda like Joel did from the E3 2016 trailer of TLOU2, and he'll be walking & it will have transitions like the show called Banshee to what the main protagonist is doing.
to summarise the point of this character, he's one of the big top dogs of the Hunter/David's group, that evolved overtime since David's demise (although at the start, you wouldn't know that he was a Hunter nor you knowing the existence of the group unless there's slight hints within the transitions for the intro of the game via a st_p club, but there wouldn't be any dialogue & it will just be the music going at it with an exception for the sound effects being produced with the song), and essentially what the introduction establishes is the main protagonist setting out what he's set out to do for the Hunter group, although the audience wouldn't know the exact or direct intentions of what the main protagonist is setting out to do, but the main protagonist will do lots of 'things' such as offing a bunch of ppl at a farm (without the audience directly seeing it from the introduction, but only hinting it) for whatever reason (also, the song that Banshee uses for the introduction of the main protagonist mentions 'offing a number at the farm' so it's a nice touch that the main protagonist corresponds to the nature of the song named 'Fifth of Whiskey') & the main protagonist will just be walking away from the farm with bodies blurred in the background, but this will only happen in transition once the song gets to the part of 'offing a number at the farm' so some of the audience might pick up what's happening even though the introduction is supposed to be suble but direct at the same time.
Overall, the main protagonist will be an allegory (a specific meta-commentary) for the 'Human Essence' of what it means existing as a 'Human' & the nature of being a 'Human' - so that means in short that the game will be a lot more d__raved than the previous TLOU's for that very reason alone & the reason for this is because how TLOU2 ended with the Human Essence overtaking the whole final act of the game, although the entire game was basically like that (even TLOU1) but there's one specific reason as to what it makes it stand out & that is primarily the Rattler's & their point of existence within TLOU itself; the Hunter Group that the Main Protagonist is a part of will have very similar vignette's from one another with the Rattlers.
my interpretation will still include Ellie, but you'll won't play as her until around the later middle of the game & the reason for that, is because the main protagonist & Ellie will have special roles for each other for the story i just smeared through in my mind, but the story will have specific structuring that of 'Heart of Darkness' (which TLOU I utilised this specific structuring for Joel) & will take inspirations for the much later part of the story through the main protagonist to being undercover for a city that he found along the way (for what reason that may be) & so he'll operate as a Sheriff, which will correspond to the inspirations for the main protagonist being a Sheriff such as The Wolf Among Us & Banshee.
there's a lot more to this, but im intentionally trying to miniscule the details as of now...
@@hoshireed77
The First Act will be about the main protagonist being some sort of undercover agent/hitman for the Hunter group & he'll also bring in updates & keep in touch with the Hunter Society...
I still can’t get over how long it takes to make a complete game. It’s the one thing I wish was different but if it was easier I don’t think we would get such great games like we do every so often
I agree. 10-15 years ago it seemed like games came out every 2-3 years. You can almost double that now. Sequels that is. It sucks but the finished product will be worth it.
@@TyranosauRoss yea I agree. It’s all worth the wait
Considering that Abby was stabbed in the shoulder after already having issues with it, I feel like her buff days are over. I think we’ll see a virgin of Abby that puts all of her skills mr. Miyagi-style into lev
Lev will no doubt be a beast after training with Abby. Maybe the FF have an awesome ortho surgeon and physical therapist. She’s still young enough to recover. WLF never filled that chiropractor position.
I bet Abby will not try to forcefully take Ellie to the fireflies for the cure. Since birth people in Ellie's life have been saving her ...right from Anna as shown in HBO series then Marlene protected her all those years then Joel saves her. Dina saved her life too a lot of times even indirectly Jesse did. The twist will be Abby will also try and protect her. Eventually Ellie may herself surrender herself for the cure
I agree. I think the hostility between the two died in the water after their fight. I can see Ellie giving her life away for the cure. It certainly haunts her that she missed the opportunity to do it. I just think that it will have to be a hard choice. Immediately after part 2 it would be an easy choice cause she’s lost everything by the end of the game. She needs to find something that gives her life again, and when the choice to sacrifice herself is presented to her, the choice is difficult.
Thank you for watching!!
I’ve had this theory that I built on from several other vids analysis and also some of the gameplay from tlou 2 and 1. I think here’s what happens in tlou 3: the game begins with Abby and lev reaching the fireflies, being taken care of under their custody and then a few months later, she and Lev are shocked by the mission that is suddenly assigned to all of the fireflies’ members. The mission is to locate Ellie to retrieve a cure this time, and since Abby is the daughter of Dr Jerry, she is sort of pressured to find Ellie as the fireflies believe that Abby must have had contact with Ellie since her father died in the hands of Joel. Now I think that Ellie’s immunity identity must have been slowly leaking throughout communities in the states. Therefore, the fireflies are desperate now to find Ellie and bring her to retrieve the cure for once and for all. So she begins to search for Ellie, as she wants to gain the trust of the fireflies as they are in still doubt of Abby and only giving her the benefit of doubt. So she travels with Lev to Jackson, where she secretly meets with Dina, who’s already moved on from her past and just wants to peacefully live with her child. Plus, as Abby explains to Dina that she is actually trying to find Ellie and that she wants to protect Ellie from many other communities that are trying to take Ellie in as hostage or kill her, Dina explains that she’s unsure of where Ellie is actually as she had not returned to Jackson. While talking with Abby, Tommy happens to come in and sees Abby, only for a fight to ensue between her and Tommy (Tommy will be trying to shoot at her or attack her, but she tries her best to defend herself) until Dina steps in. As they explain to Tommy that Abby is trying to find and protect Ellie this time, Tommy possibly might agree to help Abby in locating Ellie. I don’t know exactly how they may convince Tommy to find Ellie, but possibly maria, Tommy’s wife, might step in and convince Tommy. So they manage to piece informations from Jackson’ residents and maybe even outsiders who spotted Ellie, and then they learn she resides at the mountains. I think she’ll be living alone at the mountains because in her journal, I don’t remember where exactly, Ellie mentions something about the mountains which can possibly explain Ellie’s residence there. So once they locate Ellie, who shows no emotions at all and she’s now an experienced hunter, they talk to her and try their best to escort her to the fireflies, only for her to refuse. So one night, as Tommy, Abby, and lev are sleeping somewhere near Ellie’s residence, they are suddenly attacked by a group of strangers (maybe a new faction?) and Ellie manages to save them. Learning of the troubles that she already got her friends in before during tlou 2 (jesses’s death, having Dina accompany her while she was pregnant, Tommy losing his eyes, etc), Ellie understands that it’s best to forgive and forget. In other words, she doesn’t want her friends and family suffer again, and so that’s why she resided alone. But now due to communities learning of her immunity, her friends and families are in risk as well, so she eventually agrees to be escorted to the fireflies across the state. I think they’ll be travelling on motorbikes through the canyons as another vid stated about the pictures at Joel’s house, where it shows canyons and something like Tommy and Joel like motorbikes. So the game will sort of have moments at the canyons like maybe ambushes, 1-1 talk between Abby and Ellie, or Tommy and Ellie, etc. They finally manage to get near the fireflies HQ, where the doctors are prepared to perform the operations. Ellie then requests Tommy on their way that she wishes to visit Joel’s old house. Once they stop there, Ellie only walks into the house alone, (I’m not totally sure if the condition is fine in the house but I assume it may be), and she explores a bit before going to Sarah’s room. At there, she sits on Sarah’s bed, takes a look at Joel’s and Sarah’s photo (though Tommy did bring that photo back to Joel in part 1, so maybe another picture?) or even maybe read the birthday card that Sarah wrote and forgot to give to Joel. She then stays still in the position before proceeding to sleep in the same position that Sarah was sleeping in during the first game. (Even Ellie slept like that in the second game beginning). The screen fades to black slowly as an operating beep noise can be heard that eventually goes still, indicating Ellie’s life is over, however, the results are ambiguous. We don’t know if they managed to successfully retrieve a cure or not. Leaving at an ambiguous ending for this series makes the most sense in my opinion as the whole game’s atmosphere and setting revolves around the theme of “endure and survive”; where humanity has accepted the virus and has to cope with it. Plus, in part 2, the infected numbers have grown so I highly doubt that part 3 will end with humanity being restored and everyone works together to rebuild the world, which will just be an happy ending. I don’t think Naughty dog will go in that route, since their main focus is on Ellie, as the Tlou series begins with Ellie and it will end with her.
I agree that the game begins with Abby and Lev. They’re path forward and destination is clear at the end of 2. I don’t think they fade into the sunset and we never see them again. I can’t see that happening. I think it’ll take some time to find out where Ellie is. Can’t see her going back to Jackson. I agree with you that she goes off on the loner route. People will need to seek her out to bring her into the story, otherwise I think she wants to disappear.
I also agree that the fireflies pursuing her will bring her into the mix. I can’t see Abby backing that after Ellie let her and Lev go, despite going there to end her. She’ll remember that she let them go and feel a duty to save her or at the very least, tip her off. Abby isn’t going to like what the Fireflies are now imo. She may not see it right off the bat, but she’ll see that they’re power hungry just like every other faction out there.
In regards to Ellie’s ending, I think it’s entirely possible she’ll give away her life for a cure. But it has to be a hard choice. Someone has to enter her life in Part 3 that gives her a reason to want to continue living, or as you say, friends that are now threatened due to the hunt for her. The Ellie we see walking off our screens at the end of 2 is at the lowest point of her life.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Nice vid bro but i thought maybe that fireflies really didn’t exist anymore and the rattlers pretended to be fireflies to bait Abby and lev
That’s a fair point and could be true. I can’t get past the menu at the end of the game though. Could be a red herring. Also the process to get to the house, move the bookcase that concealed the firefly basement, and then finding the right radio frequency (plus asking Abby questions about what base she’s from) seems a couple levels above the Rattler’s brain capabilities.
Thanks for watching I appreciate it!
I would like a third installment in another country, with brand new characters. And how the virus affected other parts of the world.
I’d be curious to play that but not as the third installment of the last of us. After the third last of us they can explore other regions/parts of the world impacted by cordyceps, but we gotta see how this story ends. I appreciate you watching!
Yes I agree, it would be great to explore how other nations responded to the outbreak coz the scope is huge. I don't feel like theres an immediate story to tell for Ellie or Abbie, especially Abbie as she's already found her redemption in Lev. I would rather see Ellie appear again in a later installment as a more mature individual when another character(s) story converges with hers.
@@Groovy75x if they were making this like a 4 or 5 game series I could see them taking time away from Ellie and having a new character come across her when she’s a bit older, but if it’s ending at 3 then I think Ellie is in it, and plays a big role.
@@TyranosauRoss Absolutely. But I really hope they don't want to wrap it up in 3 🤞. Wishful thinking I know.
@@Groovy75x haha yes I’m with you on that
your tlou3 launch year prediction? 2028?
Yeah I think that sounds reasonable. It’s hard to be excited for something so far away, but nice to have it semi-confirmed or whatever you wanna call it.
Think about a series like Mass Effect where they put out three titles in 5 years. Those days are long gone. Worth it in the end, but a painful wait.
what if Dina dies and Ellie takes up JJ and that creates the dynamic that her and Joel had.
@@dalton5903 it certainly could happen but I hope it doesn’t. Too predictable at this point. We already had Abby do that with Lev too. Too recycled.
Yeah I was just going off what you said about Ellie finding something worth living for, or somebody. Ellie taking Joel's place in a duo. Finding someone who's younger and needs guidance in their apocalyptic world. but yeah.
@@TyranosauRoss
@@dalton5903 I gotcha. Yeah I do think Ellie needs to find something that brings her out of the pit she’s in at the end of 2. She’s as low as we’ve ever seen her. She very well may find a younger person to play parent to, but I don’t see it being JJ. I think that would be too telegraphed at this stage. I reckon it’ll be someone we have yet to meet which I would prefer.
I mean we kind of saw that with Abby & Lev which is why Ellie chose to spare Abby cause she’d be taking Levs Joel, what I’d love to see is them revealing Jjs name is actually Joel Jesse instead of Jesse Jr
I don’t see Abby going to find harbour and rescue with the fire flies to then go against them and even less to protect Ellie even if she spared her life. Maybe Abby will have someone she personally loves getting bitten and want to get the vaccine. But will they have another doctor able to make it?
My thought is that Abby could also lead them to where she may be and then see show has a family or someone she looks after and then feels obligated to step out of guilt.
I agree about the doctor. Can’t have some jabroni doing the most important surgery ever. They can easily write a doctor into the story though. Maybe the FF are more interested in extracting a vaccine so they can use it for power opposed to administering it for good.
@@TyranosauRoss that could be an interesting angle if the FF were devoured by power and then Abby would try to prevent that. Although her own dad was going to sacrifice Ellie for the greater good.
My thinking is that we won’t see Abby again in Part III. The story and idea (part I = love for someone dear; part II = revenge) will involve Ellie and a whole new set of characters and circumstances to teach her and show the player something new, as well as ending Ellie’s character arch. There has to be something in the story that could emerge in Part III that seems like just a detail now (just like the fact the the Doctor Joel killed had a daughter who would want revenge to then create the same feeling in Ellie’s journey).
@@cozmos21 that’s a good point. I’d be okay with moving on from Abby, just would put my money right now on her being in it. I welcome it being mainly Ellie with new characters and a new dilemma arising.
@@TyranosauRoss Yeah she probably will be in it. Thing is ND have a talent for thinking out of the box and creating stories larger than we can expect so who knows. But maybe she won't be in it or just in a story-line way (not playable character but holds info or says info to FF), because if she is playable again in Part III then the whole series becomes almost 50/50 Ellie and Abby while I believe it's got to remain 100% about Ellie. Especially since Joel is out of the story.
@@cozmos21 I agree with you. If she’s in the story fine, but no more 50/50 split. I don’t think ND would do that again either. Maybe there’s a moment in the game where the FF are going to operate on Ellie with no intent to use the vaccine in a good way, and to use it for power purposes (I’m sure they can do both btw), and they take Ellie against her will so Abby steps in and you play as her for an hour or so. Idk, spitballing here. I’m fine with no Abby being a playable character, but if it’s for a small portion of the game, like Winter Ellie in Part 1, I don’t mind that either.
Yeah it's got to be about forgiveness, the first one's about love then second one is about hate so the third one has to in some way be about forgiveness
Reminds me of Spider-Man 3 in a way with Peter forgiving Flint Marko/Sandman over killing Peter's Uncle Ben.
That’s the only logical thing I can think of right now. Hopefully this starts to move at a decent pace. Maybe ND threw the whole concept thing as a smokescreen and they’re further along in the story than he let on. We can dream. Have to wonder now if the third game could come out before the show catches up so they can work it into Max. Both games and show move at a snails pace now.
I'd say the second game is actually about forgiveness.
The third game will probably be about hope.
@@evivrusXerudne I’d agree if the forgiveness didn’t happen so late in the game. I don’t think that becomes a concept until the end of Santa Barbara. Though you can make the argument that Ellie already began forgiving Joel on his last night, so forgiveness was something that played a role for her throughout the whole game.
@TyranosauRoss I'm more thinking what is the ultimate message of the game? It's not to hate people who do you wrong. It's to understand and ultimately forgive - or at the very least, let go. I think "the game is about hate" is the pre-release marketing line. The game is really about forgiveness, understanding, and perspective.
What’s funny is when I initially heard the voice on the radio talking with Abby I thought it was the rattlers. It’s not until recently that I saw dom the bomb say otherwise and now listening to this video I can’t believe how wrong I was at that time. It definitely makes more sense now since they showed the building at Catalina island in the end of the game
Yeah I definitely get thinking it was a Rattler ruse. It would be smart of them. Thing is, I don’t think they’re very smart. Just bullies that own that general area. Wonder what the FF perspective was on them? Would imagine they’ve crossed paths at some time.
I appreciate you watching and the sub. Means a lot 🙏
Calling it now the ending of the last of us will be Ellie sacrificing herself for the cure
Totally possible, even likely. Gonna be sad AF.
Completely disagree. IMO, the entire point of TLOU1 was Joel rescuing Ellie from her own shortsighted idealism. He believed she had to live. She was his world at that point, but Ellie is more than that.
TLOU2 ends with Ellie choosing life, choosing forgiveness, choosing Joel, and letting go of this anger she had toward him.
TLOU3 will not end with Ellie sacrificing herself. It doesn't make sense and it undermines the previous games' message.
Ellie is the cure. Ellie living is the cure. In other words: a saved world isn't one where the young die for the old (Abby/Ellie for Marlene/Joel/Jerry/Isaac), it's one where the old die for the young. The old world is gone. Cannot be restored. The failures of the old, they have to pay for and make up for and fix...
@@evivrusXerudne heres the thing thats what joel wanted for her, thats not what she wanted,joel saved her because he never got over his daughter. It does make sense for her to sacrifice herself or join upwith the fireflies because thats what she wanted to do and still had feelings for it for four years
@@evivrusXerudne Totally agree with all you said especially with the "Ellie is the cure" part, but not in the way people think or tried to impose on her. She could maybe be the next leader of Jackson in the end, will participate in rebuilding a better society, one not based on futile quests and outdated ideals from another era with appalling moral implications that would sacrifice any lives for any cause. That's part of her journey to realize all that and act on it with the strength and experience she would have gained over the saga. The viewer must understand that the solution to the world's problems was never going to be this rushed sacrifice but rather a slow process that would take time, wisdom and determination, and that Ellie has all the skills to do that rather than by simply dying for it
@@sineadmoon5752100%. You get it. There's no magical fix for the world's problems.. it takes work.
There's no proof that anyone else in WLF knew about why Abby went to Jackson except those particular people in her crew so I doubt a random W LF guy would no. Also she can just lie and say yes she killed that Ellie person. I'm not even sure those people on the radio were really fireflies. They could have been lying.
True she may not have told anyone but she went with 7 other people so they could’ve said something. Jordan seems like a rat doesn’t he? I could see Mel bitching about in a medical wing.
Yeah someone else brought that up about the radio. Very possible. I just think they go through a lot of hoops to get to the house, basement, right radio frequency, then get questioned about what base she was at for it to be a ruse. Too high brow to be part of the rattler faction. So she gets to Catalina Island and gets abducted… again? I’m not buying it at this time.
In terms of your skepticism, the post game, new game plus menu literally confirms that they're real because it's the location that they mentioned and Abby/Levs boat. It's an implied narrative that they made it.
@@geordiejones5618 just because the location is real doesn't mean the people she was talking to on the phone aren't trying to set her up.
@@geordiejones5618 I agree. I don’t think the post game menu shows that without reason.
Ellie unites with Dina and JJ. The fireflies track ellie down, finding out she has a family now. Knowing that ellie won't let herself go, they attack Jackson, kill most of the people living there, just to get ellie. Ellie escapes with JJ, Dina dies. Whatever happens during the process of ellie trying to escape the fireflies, abby and lev are tasked to find the anonymous immune girl (ellie). Eventually, they meet. After a long fight, abby finds out that she has a child. Abby then refuses to take ellie to the fireflies, but instead helps her escape. At the end they somehow find out that the fireflies were lying about a cure, and they just wanted ellie because her immunity can benefit something for only the fireflies, instead of all of humanity. Abby, lev & ellie are all pissed. They head to the firefly base, kill the leaders and elite members of the Fireflies who knew about the truth, and then inform the rest of the crew members about the true intentions of the greedy fireflies, which then dissolves the group, and also the hope for a cure for mankind. Abby then understands why Joel did what he did, and ellie understands why abby did what she did, and then the tensions between the 2 close for good.
And they should somehow add bill and Tommy in the story
Lot of people assume that Ellie and Dina end up together again. I really hope not, and if they do, we need to see them mend fences on screen and not in between the end of part 2 and beginning of part 3. Ellie walked out on her and left them vulnerable. Dina at the farm with JJ by herself is not ideal. Something goes wrong and no one there to help, and the amount of labor it takes to keep that place running isn’t a small task. I think people are overlooking that.
@@TyranosauRoss I was just looking for a valid reason for abby not to capture ellie, but instead would help her out against the fireflies, and the only thing that came in mind was that ellie would have a family to take care of.
@@AmarJ. they very well may end up together. If so that’s fine, I just think we need to see the repair work happen in real time. Ellie really hung them out to dry. I hope we get a new character(s) but we’ll see.
@@TyranosauRoss same
Ellie had a lot of survival guilt and I guarantee you that if the fireflies would’ve said, the cure means taking your life, she would’ve said 100%. Yes. the issue here is that she was still basically a child you don’t allow children to make life-changing decisions completely on their own. Apocalypse or not kids are still kids and they don’t see things with the clarity that adult experience does. There’s a whole conversation about this in the first game where Joel is telling her they could just go back to Tommy’s. She said they had to go through with the no matter what so you’re kind of wrong there just FYI.
I kind of agree with you on the story, but I also think that it’s gonna be more of a thing where people know or at least they find out somehow that Ellie was from Jackson and the fireflies are going to want to mount an expedition to Jackson and Lev and Abbey end up leaving in order to warn Ellie.
Abbey and Lev get to Jackson a lot faster because it’s just the two of them vs some big expedition only to find out that Ellie is in some other dangerous place or something, they go find her and they let her know that Jackson is in danger and Ellie and Abbey both go back, and Try to stop the fireflies from attacking Jackson.
Abbey will most likely get killed and Ellie will become the new Joel to Lev
I don’t think sacrificing her life for the vaccine is even in her orbit of understanding at 14, therefore the no matter what part doesn’t apply to that. I think no matter what means trekking across the country making themselves more vulnerable to infected and/or Hunter attacks. If Joel, who is a late 40’s/early 50’s human in this game didn’t consider life sacrifice for the cure, I don’t think Ellie did either.
As for being 100% certain she’d consent to the surgery if the FF asked her, I don’t know. She shows so much youth and passion in the game I don’t know if she’d be ready to give that up. I’d lean towards she would’ve said yes, but I can’t say that with 100% certainty.
I guess that means the concept for part 3 is forgiveness. I don’t know. Can’t see it taking Druck 3 plus years to come up with that, but fun to speculate. I do feel certain the FF will have an impact in part 3, and that they will get wind of Ellie and go after her, and that puts Abby in a situation to make a decision.
@@TyranosauRoss I don't think Ellie even truly knows if she would have or not. Its def a hard one to pick coz Ellie is such a conflicted character. Ellie didn't want Joel to abandon her when they got to Tommy's dam in the first installment because she quickly grew to care about him, but then she begrudges him (years later) when she finds out he was not willing to let her go. It's really only in hindsight that she expresses that her life would have mattered. In the moment though... I'm not so sure.
@@Groovy75x I agree with you. Easy to assume what one would do in that situation till it actually happens. She could say, 2-4 years later, that she would’ve done it but can’t be certain in the moment. There’s no way that crossed her or Joel’s mind when going to Salt Lake. She even says when we’re done here we can go wherever you want. I think that’s proof enough she wasn’t thinking this was a life sacrificing procedure.
Predicting every character i loved die. Setting the bar real low considering how much of a heartbreak part one and 2 gave us.
Sometimes it’s safer to think that way.
@@TyranosauRoss Yeah man. Didn't mean for the comment to come across negative towards another sequel, I'm sure ND can give us another masterpiece (here's hoping).
@@blake3656 it’s all good I’m with you. I believe in ND. We know what we’re signing up for. Fun and heartbreak 😂
I think, imo, that Ellie should be trying to live happily.
Living near Dinah, who's in a relationship now. Ellie sees JJ still. Abby arrives at the fireflies group but someone survived the old group and knows that Abby helped the scars. They torture Abby till she tells them where she saw Ellie last. They go there and Ellie is gone, mission or hunting, the town is destroyed and JJ is kidnapped, Dinah left major injured. Abby is able to escape. Her amd levy escape, levy talks her into saving Ellie. Ellie comes back to a burnt down town, hundreds killed and Tommy who heard a distress call over a walkie-talkie. He and Ellie reluctantly help each other, they care about each other but are fractured. They follow the trail that was left for them. Ellie and Tommy head towards. Abby and levy the opposite. Abby saves Ellie from being killed and Tommy reluctantly lets her live. Tommy and levy are killed and Ellie taken. Abby comes to save the day. She saves Ellie again but is killed. Ellie Traverses a large building complex killing off the infected and Fireflies till they reach the top. Ellie does a boss type battle with a big name that has infected "pets" she wins and is left with JJ, they travel back to Dinah and live happily.
Have forgiven Abby, been forgiven by Tommy and ultimately forgives herself.
Interesting theory that I can get behind a bit. I just can’t see the story starting with Ellie being back with Dina. I think when Dina left the farm she left it for good. That means Ellie too. When Ellie parts from D and goes to Santa Barbara that’s it for Dina. I can see them reconciling at some point in part 3 but I think they show us the mending process in game time, not in between the games off screen, otherwise Ellie’s choice to continue the Abby chase has no consequence.
Ultimately I do believe that Abby wants to close that chapter but something from her past, similar to Joel’s, will come back to haunt her and forces her to rip that band aid off.
Thank you for watching!
What if abby is immune now because she bit Ellies fingers off? Cheesy ret-con esque plot amendment, but if abby was tested immediately after finding the fireflies and they say "wait shes immue, or showing signs of immunity" and suddenly abby needs to sacrifice herself for thw world that would be a parallel they could draw up. How does Lev take the news that abby has to decide to sacrifice herself, maybe abby is forced to be operated on to attempt to extract a cure. I think there is alot of ways it could go down, and obviously alot of people that are 10x the writer that i am. Bur a situation where abby gets to the fireflies and its not sunshine and rainbows, maybe they're cutthroat talking about selling the vaccine, discuss that it probably won't work but they should capture Ellie anyway to try. Maybe abby gets to the fireflies with good intentions tells them about a cure/woman whos immune, and instead of happy go lucky pursuit to find ellie, abbys new group is ruthless and moralless when it comes to the extent they'll go to get ellie. Maybe it all comes down to abby needing to choose a side when they arrive at Jackson planning to wipe out the community to get to ellie and abby/lev need to go AWOL to redeem themselves
I agree that Abby will in time see that Catalina Island isn’t what she thought it would be, and I do think that it’ll have to do with the pursuit of Ellie. She was really young when she was last with them, and she just served under a tyrant in Isaac, so she’ll see through the BS this time around.
As for Abby being immune, I don’t think Ellie’s powers work like that. Seems more like a preventative than an aggressor. Kinda like using the nail bomb in part 1 defensively opposed to throwing it and using it offensively.
I appreciate you watching and reaching out 🙏 apologies for the delay
Maybe Ellie intentionally let them go? My thinking is, is that they want the audience to think Ellie has a heart and let Abby and Lev go by the goodness of her heart. BUT they might twist the story and tie in the ending of TLOU2 when Abby bit Ellie's fingers off. There could be a possibility that Abby maybe infected by Ellie's blood by doing that action, and Ellie may have let abby go in hopes she infected her that way?
@@ssmmiilleeyy88 infected Abby or made her immune? If I recall correctly the only other person Ellie bites is David and we know what happens to him not long after. I think it’s unclear what Ellie’s bite, saliva, blood can do to someone normal. The show plays with that a little when Ellie uses her blood to help Sam in episode 5 and it doesn’t do anything. I got the vibe that the show was saying it was a kid’s foolish desperation to use their “power” in an offensive way when it’s really just a preventative measure for the person carrying the immunity. I know that’s the show, but with Druckmann involved with it, I can’t see him allowing Mazin to go way off the grid on that.
The problem with that story line I think is that if Ellie were to sacrifice herself for a vaccine to the fireflies that would render Joel’s death and efforts and everything he did for her pointless
Yeah but that’s Ellie’s whole point that she makes to him. He took away her ability to make a choice. Not that the fireflies gave her a choice either. I agree with Joel’s decisions. She was too young to make a choice there. At that age you can’t understand what you’re sacrificing. Now that she’s older she’ll have the ability to make the decision herself.
@@TyranosauRossI agree %100 I just think that maybe Joel’s death would make her maybe not want to sacrifice herself now cause he died so she can live he knew the day would come that someone would seek revenge on him and he was ok with that to save Ellie but if Ellie went on and sacrificed herself to the fireflies then that would mean Joel killed Abby’s father and all those fireflies and all the events of part 2 that happened for no reason from a player point of view I’d be asking myself what was the point of all those deaths and hours of gameplay to end the story with something they could’ve done in part 1 maybe if they could find a way to engineer a vaccine without killing Ellie it would make a lot more sense
My idea was to take the series a bit into biofantasy. Some warlord shows up at Jackson to lay siege, demanding their submission with claims that he can control the infected, but its a ploy to capture Ellie, who the warlord sees as a potential counter to his budding empire (he can actually control the infected thanks to experimental surgery). Game would go back and forth as Ellie and a couple other immune persons in a more of a survival horror gameplay loop and then a younger core featuring JJ led by Dina who tries fo rescue her. More focus on team play with co-op possible. Jackson is destroyed so no one has anything to lose by risking everything.
How does the warlord know about Ellie? Former FF or something? Interesting thought. I do think in Part 3 Ellie is going to be a hotly pursued commodity.
@@TyranosauRossyeah exactly. They were the only ones who knew about her like that.
If Neil is one of the layoff that were announced today, then it may have a chance.
It should be a Tommy game tbh.
@@Midnight_Wesker I’m interested to see what his involvement is. He had an ending to part 2 that I don’t like for him. I’ve always thought his conversation with Ellie at the farm was out of character. Weird for him to put that pressure on her to go. he went to a dark place. Hopefully he makes it back out.
Fantastic video 🫡👊🏿
I appreciate that. Thank you for watching 🙏
It’s hard to do a story revolving around everyone wanting the cure when the only people that know of the immunity outside of Dina and Tommy is Abby….. who is done with Ellie and vice versa. Unless that’s what sets off the story, but my question is, how would Abby react to the FF wanting to look for Ellie? Why would she want to pursue that, it’s just gonna bring up the past all over again, unless Abby maybe wants to potentially help Ellie and that’s what brings the trilogy full circle. But I still don’t think Abby is relevant anymore, let her seek refuge with the FF and be done with it. Both Ellie and Abby did too much to each other, how could they possibly then work together even set 4-5 years later 😂
I agree that Ellie and Abby are not picking each other for a group project, but I do think if it comes down to it, Abby would feel obligated to save Ellie if she knew the FF were gunning for her. Thing is, she’d only feel obligated to help her if she knew she didn’t want to sacrifice her life. If she wanted to sacrifice her life then it wouldn’t make sense for Abby to get in the way. She’d be indifferent. I’m sure I’m a hundred miles away from the truth on this so only time will tell. The theorizing has been fun. Hope we don’t have to wait two years to get some more crumbs.
@@TyranosauRoss thinking about it today, the fireflies have remained relevant in some way. You’d think they’d be present in the 3rd, they kinda have to be. And this is also something HUGE that they could potentially delve into, perhaps if there’s a time jump, what if Ellie even lied to Tommy about Abby’s fate (assuming Ellie and Tommy have become a duo that is). How would Tommy feel about Abby still being alive? That’s where the story hits a brick wall, how do you justify Tommy not immediately going for Abby as soon as he realises this, it will be a head scratcher until a reveal trailer lol
@@kamakazilee6066 I think Ellie definitely does not tell Tommy about what really happened. The funny thing is if Ellie doesn’t oblige Tommy’s request they actually get the outcome that Tommy would’ve wanted, which is Abby dying. Ellie does what he wants and she lives.
I just think there’s too much FF talk in the Abby portions of the game, mainly with Owen at first, and then when she goes to Santa Barbara, for it to not play a part in 3.
@@TyranosauRoss yeah I agree, I feel like Tommy if he sees Abby again, he may not be able to help himself, it was his brother at the end of the day, hard to predict. I also think a great way to keep Joel somewhat at the heart of the story in one way is if, Ellie doesn’t try hide her immunity anymore, and the plot is kinda like ‘this is why Joel insisted on her hiding it’ even if that stemmed from a selfish act in the first place. Ellie hopefully has finally realised her life is worth living, and it’s funny too, Ellie’s fear of being alone may be what keeps her happy from now on, nobody to care for means no survivors guilt, Tommy is the exception, given how close they’d become, he’s basically her uncle 😂
@@kamakazilee6066 I forgot about Ellie telling Sam that before he turned. What her fear is. Now she’s likely living it. She’s also older now so maybe it doesn’t bother her as much. I agree with you though. She has a big heart and cares so with no one in her immediate life maybe she sees the value in it. I’m sure at some point that changes though. She’ll come across someone she cares for.
They are going to have Ellie murdered within the first 30 minutes of the game, surely lol
Bill travels across the country to seek vengeance against Ellie for taking his favorite porn mag.
Personally I think that the theme for part 3 is going to be forgiveness, or at least it should be a big part of it. Since we're on that boat, I think it could be super interesting to very slowly develop some sort of forgiveness arc between Abby and Ellie. Force them to team up for some reason, have Lev be there as well to act as a sort of mediator, make him have a friendly relationship with Ellie and that way he becomes the bridge between the Abby and Ellie. The two characters have immaculate parallels and even druckmann said that in different circumstances, the two girls would've been good friends... So I think It'd definitely be a risky move, but at the end of the day, the two girls understand each other better than anyone. So, however that plays into the main story, I would find it very compelling and interesting to watch. Maybe they could even become the people Ellie would want to live for. But who knows?
I’m with you. I think forgiveness could be the bond between Abby and Ellie. I think the FF are going to be the force that pushes Abby and Ellie to work together. And good point about Lev. He can look at things more neutrally and reason with people.
Love the ideas but the starting point seems farfetched. Why on earth would a random grunt know all of this information specifically to Abby’s backstory, Elle/abbys relationship and outcome (more so the Santa Barbara stuff) and Joel’s backstory as well. They wouldn’t know that Elle was immune either. So the launching point to get Abby to include Elle needs to be reworked here!
Thank you for watching.
People talk, for starters. We see how fast word travels when Abby and Manny get to the fob in day 1. Isaac tells them to quit spreading rumors. I’m sure people would talk if Abby and her crew left for a couple months to do some covert op. Jordan definitely talks, let’s be real.
@@TyranosauRoss all fair points. They wouldn’t know about elle specifically in that case I wouldn’t think though. Abby was done with WLF after going after the fireflies so I doubt they would have all the outcome of Ellie sparing/still alive. Ellie left a wake of bodies and they went to war immediately with the other faction so I just down information would drop for a random is all. But again. I absolutely loved the ideas and concepts. Love to see what else comes of LOU 3!
This is all great theories, I love seeing The Last of Us community trying to keep Ellie's story alive.
Here is what is going to happen.
Ellie and Abby have moved on and have no interest in ever hunting each other down again or going on some mission for the cure.
All of that is in the past now and we will not find them in a continuance to seek revenge. Revenge is long gone.
I think that after all of the chaos Abby and Lev went through with Isaac attacking Levs family and invading their land and Abby standing up to Isaac to save Lev which caused all of The WLF to go after Abby and Abby defending herself and Lev, killing them all as they went. This causes The WLF to long for revenge, their sole mission will be to hunt them down and make them pay. In doing so, they team with the Rattlers to create a force to be reckoned with.
In the meantime, Abby and Lev get back to the aquarium and find her friends dead and they go after Ellie, Jessie, Tommy and Dina. Killing Jessie and shooting Tommy and almost killing Dina, Abby lets Dina and Ellie go. Fast forward to Ellie changing her mind and deciding to go after Abby despite Dina's insistence for her to stay. Ellie sets off to find Abby. In the mean time, Abby and Lev get captured by the Rattlers. Ellie goes after them killing Rattlers as she goes and creating chaos and leaving a path of destruction until she finds Abby and Lev strung up and left to die on the beach. We all know how that plays out.
Fast forward and we see that The WLF and the Rattlers are hell bent on finding Ellie and Abby to seek justice for what they did in their battle for revenge against each other.
The Rattlers hunt down and capture Ellie and The WLF hunt down and capture Abby but Lev escapes. Abby and Ellie end up being brought to the same place, maybe an island and are imprisoned and tortured. They both still hate each other but soon come to realize that they both have the same enemy and may need to work together to escape.
Meanwhile, Tommy and a couple of new characters find out that Ellie was taken so they form a plan to go rescue her and maybe even get help from the Fireflies.
After the rescue team arrive on the island and begin their mission, they are met with resistance and have to fight for survival. At some point Tommy is fighting for his life in the pouring rain and is just about to be killed by a member of The WLF when out of no where, an arrow comes flying through the air and pierces the WLF soldiers skull and he drops to the ground. Tommy jumps up and looks around and sees Lev standing there breathing heavy and soaked by the rain while holding his bow.
They all make their way inside and find Ellie and Abby weakened and beaten and bloody.
They grab them and quickly escort them out, fighting with everything they have as they make their escape. They put Ellie and Abby in a boat and begin making their way away from the shore to safety.
Just when they think they are safe, a boat comes rushing at them closing in fast. Lev and Tommy begin shooting at the boat killing the driver but as the boat begins to pass them very closely, to our surprise, we see Isaac do a hurtling jump out of the boat and trying to land in Ellie and Abby's boat with Tommy standing over them but his back is to Isaac and he doesn't see the blade about to be slammed into his back. Ellie sees Isaac in midair and musters her last ounce of strength and in slow motion, jumps up and out of the boat, meeting Isaac in mid air as their bodies crash into each other. They both hit the water and sink. Tommy panics and dives in but is never able to find Ellie. They presume she is dead and make their way back home.
It turns out that Isaac didn't die from Yara's gunshot and was still alive.
When the group gets back home, they tell everyone the news that Ellie is dead, Abby is stricken with grief because she felt like it should have been her because she is the one that Isaac wanted.
The scene cuts to Dina on her knees at Joel's grave with tears running down her face, the camera cuts to Joel's tombstone and then slowly pans over to reveal a tombstone next to him with Ellies name on it. The scene fades to black with the sounds of water licking at the shore, the camera fades back on to reveal water washing up sand on the beach and slowly pans up to reveal a shoe, a very special shoe, a shoe that Ellie is known to wear. The camera continues to pan until we see a leg and then eventually a hand, someone is lying face down on the beach and they are missing 2 fingers. it fades to black again and the credits roll.
Now here is a shocker to the end. It may be a bit corny but what if, as an encore, after the credits finish rolling and the screen fades to black, A man is laying in bed, we cant see his face but hear him mumbling, he suddenly makes a loud gasp and yells "Ellie", as we see Joel laying in the bed, sweating and heart racing as he wakes up from the horrible dream he had while he was unconscious as his body was recovering from a wound from being struck in the head with a golf club.
We see the scene flash back to hear Abby say, " You dont get to rush this" as she hits him one time with the club and everything goes black.
@@PaPaJohnTheNonProGamer thank you for watching Papa John. I’m certain the WLF and Rattlers are exterminated after Day 3.
I've seen many Abby-Ellie theories and quite honestly they always feel forced and unrealistic, and especially knowing Naughty Dog they won't go for a predictable outcome or story. People should let Abby live her life on her island in peace, that makes no sense for her to ever cross Ellie's path again.
I don't ever see any theories including JJ as a central character ( with a 12-15 years time skip ) There's a lot of narrative potential for what could be done between Ellie and JJ, ( and Dina ) with Ellie maybe feeling guilt over Jesse's death and creating some communication difficulty between the two. Idk I feel like a Ellie / JJ duo would be some kind of way to also go full circle and remind us of some part 1 moments when roles where reversed and Ellie was the idealist hopefull kid and now would be this much more mature and stable adult
I think Ellie crawling back to Dina and putting JJ as a central figure in the story is the kind of predictability you talk about. I hope we get some new character introductions that have impacts on the story. I think people underestimate what Ellie did when she left the farm.
Ellie made her choice and it wasn’t Dina, it was Abby and Santa Barbara. I don’t see a fence being mended with Dina in between games. For me that has to happen on screen so we can see the effort it takes.
Dina strikes me as someone that means what she says. I’d be disappointed if we get into 3 and Ellie is back with Dina without any on screen explanation as to how they got back cause Dina leaving the farm was her reply to Ellie for leaving. She needs someone she can rely on and trust and Ellie broke that for her. And it’s not just for their relationship, it’s her kid. She can’t stay at the remote farm with just herself and JJ. She needed Ellie’s help there and she walked out the door.
@@TyranosauRoss I wouldn't say it's that predictable, Naughty Dog deliberately showed us Ellie alone in the end, "sad and lonely", at least in surface. And I think it was to mislead us. Ellie choose Abby over her family, but as Neil Druckman said, this decision is assimilated to a premeditated su*cide. Ellie thinks she's probably going to die going there and that's kind of the point. She's choosing to get away before doing things to herself and potentially expose her family to it. In her journal there's some page talking about how she would never want Dina to ever see her dead and she would rather die alone.
It's true that Dina is a strong-minded woman, and forgive or at least tolerate Ellie would take some time and would for sure not be an overnight process. This evolution in their relationship could totally be showed into flashbacks ( and playable flashbacks ) during the game, just like in part II flashbacks showed Ellie and Joel relationship evolution.
Joel taught her throught part II, that the universe won't wait on your relationships statuses, that literaly the last flashback in the last scene of the game, when she told him she would try to forgive him, then the next day he died. Sometimes, it can be too late. I think it's one of the hardest lessons she learned so that's why it would make sense for her to go back to her people and put her efforts towards saving her relationships. Ellie could prove throught her actions, with a changed attitude and mindset, she's more than words back in Jackson. Dina, after some time, could give a second chance to her knowing her focus has shifted, she's capable of understanding, that Ellie was not past her traumas and obsession at the time she needed to be unfortunately, but things have changed. People can redeem themselves. Dina don't care as a person for Abby but, learning Ellie went all alone and all this way and that her final decision was to spare her means to Dina that Ellie's finally letting go, that her focus and mindset have changed this time, for good. Ellie's ready for the future, not the past.
Throughout the saga, one of the core elements is about finding a family, a community. Finding people you care about that cares about you and are ready to put you above anything else, any cause or ideals. Like Riley ready to stop her enrollment in the Fireflies to stay with Ellie, and of course Joel saving her. I don't mean that in the way of Dina should forget Ellie and put her on a pedestal. I just really think that Ellie has found her home in Jackson and the people within it and is ready to put the work into rebuilding what's maybe repearable. She's also an orphaned kid living most of her life without caring people around her and I think she wouldlike to be present in JJ's life and for him to be loved and cared for, but ultimately the decision would be Dina's.
Ellie also has a leader potential hinted in many ways and by multiple people, most of them leaders themselves. She has all the skills in her to become this experimented, wise and powerfull mentor. In American Daughter, we learn that all her life Ellie has known the system. She comes from another Fedra QZ and stayed all her life in Fedra schools. QZ's are inhumane, individual liberties, dignity, comfort are all severely restricted. She has seen all that. She also saw the Firefly side, in American Daughter and Left Behind she shows no will to join their cause at all, trying multiple times to stop her friend enrolling. In part I she's more hopefull and idealist and really want to believe in the cause, only because she wants to save the world. In part II with Joel's loss and her being more mature she slowly come to realize the ideals of the Firelfies weren't that pure and understand Joel's decision, because she litteraly lived what he intensely feared. She experienced his brutal and sudden death, just like they would have taken her suddently and abruptly from Joel back then. She realized sacrificing any lives for any cause is morally appalling and hypocritical. She also realized that these people, wether Fedra or Fireflies, are clinging on to these impossible ideals like absolutely wanting to restore the past as it was, democracy, government etc, outdated political and social structures in a completely and radically changed world. Fedra and Fireflies were made by people who knew the old society and lived in it so they were clinging onto that but Ellie understood these would not be obtainable overnight with the world's state and the way people act all over the country. She understood rebuilding society will never be a rushed sacrifice but rather a slow process that takes works and time. In her journal in Santa Barbara, Ellie drew the logo of Rattlers, and underneath, wrote :
" Scars. Wolves. Fireflies. Fuck all these groups"
Ellie is grouping the Fireflies with a bunch of cultists, slavers, brutal militias, showing a clear reject. She saw every sides of the coin, travelling the country and seeing how many factions operates, and she has the keys to compare all this to her life and the people in Jackson. Ellie becoming the next leader of Jackson ( or implied that she will be after Maria ) in the end of Part III is realizing her destiny in a much more powerfull way than dying for it. She will help in shape a better world based on ideals adapted to her time, in her own terms, with all her lifetime to do whatever she can, as a great mentor to many, and with the experiences and strength she would have gained throughout the saga.
Abby is for sure in part 3 a d will play a major role in Ellie's life
@@Binu-t1l I can’t see Abby not being in Part 3. I’d be shocked actually. I don’t think she’ll be as playable a character as she was in 2, but she’ll be in it. I’d bet a Savage Starlight trading card on it.
Abby & Lev on Firefly island is of no interest to me whatsoever. Ellie going on a journey to reunite with Dina and JJ does. What Ellie is prepared to do to find balance in her life.
And where are Dina and JJ? Probably a two hour trip down the mountain in Jackson with Jesse’s family. That sounds like a short journey.
I’m more interested in Ellie’s story too but can’t deny that Abby’s destination leaves some meat on the bone for her story.
@@TyranosauRoss I don't sense them completely abandoning the farmhouse just to go two hours down the road. Dina made a deliberate decision to leave Ellie. There's little point in being so easily found.
@@KJGould I don’t think she cares about being easily found. It’s about safety. The farmhouse is an island. If Dina needs help, especially by herself, she has a while to wait. I think her leaving the farmhouse has just as much to do with safety as it does forgetting Ellie. Jackson gives her and JJ safety and a chance for his grandparents to be involved in his life. Dina probably wants security at this point, leaving the Seattle/Abby stuff behind, a quiet life. I can’t see her taking a pass on Jackson just so she can play hard to get with Ellie and see if she can figure out where she went. Ellie could be dead for all she knows.
There needs to be a reconciliation with Tommy, Ellie and Abby, for them to all to have a resumption. To come too terms with what happened. Or something
@@cake260 I can see it possibly happening with Ellie but not going to happen with Tommy. With Ellie we already saw her forgive to some extent, or maybe understand is a better word. Ellie was already trying to put this behind her when Tommy came knocking. Tommy’s future in the game may be as mysterious as Ellie’s. Gotta wonder if Ellie tells him the truth or tries to avoid him.
Not interested. Hope you guys enjoy it.
Thanks for watching. I appreciate it.
Part 2 was enough. 🤣
Last of Us Part II story was so sloppy. The plot was good, but needed some serious rearrangement. Imo the order of events in the game should have been:
* Go hunting as Joel and Tommy. End with them getting ambushed but no faces or anything revealed.
* Flash to Abby’s story. You’re suddenly playing as her. Stay as Abby all the way up to the big reveal about Joel and her dad.
* Flash back to Joel and Tommy being ambushed, but now you’re Abby and her POV. You’re given the choice to kill Joel or not. If you choose not to, one of the people in her group does it. Otherwise you press square or whatever and beat him to death.
* Either way, Abby flees and you’re now conflicted.
* Now play as Ellie and go on the revenge mission.
Literally same story but change around the order of events, and you get to kill Joel (if you wanna).
Hoping they get things right in LoU part III!
I think you bring up a really good point about not revealing Abby and her crew right away. Like when Owen shows her Jackson Hole and how big it is.
I think that part shows Abby in the light we see her in when we control her pov, which is a normal person. It shows her insecurities like Owen/Mel, fear of heights, not abandoning her mission. That part humanizes her. When she kills Joel she looks and acts like a Sith Lord, and comes off as this heinous person.
For the sake of surprise, I’d rather they cut out the first little Abby part you control and let us find out later that she is a normal person that had a grudge to settle. That way it eliminates this gray area she comes off as when we see her showing her vulnerabilities one moment, and going apeshit the next.
I can also understand that ND wanted us to feel safe around her at first and then pull the rug out from us.
I can’t imagine Abby’s crew would be too pleased if they accompanied her to Jackson and then she couldn’t pull the trigger. If that happened, plot wise it would need to set something up later in the story for that to come back against Abby.
Interesting points! I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment.
This takes away the feeling of being let down by Abby’s choice to kill Joel. You just spent the first 10 mins of the game keeping her alive.
Giving you the “choice” of killing Joel is silly. The whole point of Abby killing him was because he killed her dad. Providing the option to someone in the crew do it COMPLETELY strips the personal aspect away from the violence while undercutting the theme of forgiveness and making the ending less intriguing/intense. Why would Ellie’s decision to stop fighting at the end move me when i tried to choose to not kill Joel with Abby towards the beginning?
@@trilliam8806 these are fair points about the choice. I still think the order of events would’ve been improved by leaving Joel’s ambush as a cliffhanger until after playing as Abby. Personally it would add to the heinous ness of the revenge of you were forced to kill Joel as Abby manually. This would make Ellie’s choice to end the cycle more important.
Again, my main thought is just that the plot line had good ideas but poorly executed. A simple rearranging of the events would improve this.
@@trilliam8806 yeah I agree about Abby optionally killing Joel. That would also alter who Ellie is hunting down and make her whole mission convoluted. Yeah she’s going after the salt lake crew in Seattle but she’s doing it to get to Abby, the main focus of her revenge. And like I said before, that would make for a weird dynamic in Abby’s group. They follow her to Jackson for this and then she couldn’t pull the trigger. Plus it’s the whole reason why she trains. She does it to be as strong as she can for that moment she finally faces Joel.
Completely disagree. The game worked so well for me because I didn't know what Abby's motivations were. I was as motivated by rage and grief as Ellie was to hunt down every last one of the Wolves and slaughter them... and THEN, I learned the truth. Still, I was determined to ignore it... even though I knew it was wrong. I was making excuses for myself and all the carnage I had wrought. By the end of Abby's story, though, I was lost. How could I hate Abby? Her story in part 2 is Joel's story in part 1. To hate Abby would be to hate Joel... By the end of their first fight... I was empty. As empty as Ellie. How could any of this be resolved? How could anyone involved find peace? I didn't know how to move forward either, but still it killed me to see Ellie so consumed by hate and grief. Because of course... she still didn't know why Abby killed Joel. But I did.
By the end of the game, I was exhausted. The entire final fight I was pleading with a God I didn't believe in that Ellie and Abby would. Just. Stop. Fighting...
And then they did. And we watched Ellie forgive Joel. I don't believe he needed to be forgiven... and someday I think Ellie will realize that. I think that'll be part 3 territory. More importantly, I forgave Ellie. Prematurely, perhaps. And while I don't think Ellie did, I also forgave Abby. And I've never felt such relief...
The game would not have had this same emotional impact on me without the reveal after Ellie's brutal journey for revenge... No other game has ever made me feel such complex emotions and identify with the characters so much. No game has made me identify with a villain as much... I felt everything Ellie and Abby felt, every step of the way. All of that is lost by revealing Abby's motivations before Ellie's three days in Seattle.
When it ends on the guitar, now ownerless... I, too, was ready to let go and move on. But this time, I knew how. And I hope and believe Ellie will discover that, too. And I've been waiting ever since to see Ellie go on that final journey of redemption. Someday. ❤
Pt 3 will begin with Abby and Lev finding the fireflies who are in contact with a firefly cell from South America who has the oriiginal Patient 0 who is infected and contagious but not turned or growing fungus from their body. One of the doctors working their finds out that by combining both Ellie’s and patient 0’s dna a cure can be made but only if they are alive. This will take us to back to pt 1 where Joel saving Ellie from the surgery actually saved the worlds only hope for a cure. Have them travel to the WHO in Europe and leave from
Boston harbor and Bill can help them find a working boat.
You nailed it
Omfg. That video could have been 5 minutes long..
You are droning on...
Omfg no one made you watch it….. omfg 🙀
1) If Abby has a material part in Part III then Neil has made a terrible mistake.
2) Abby and her crew kept the Joel murder trip secret, so the prediction makes no sense.
3) "That girl knows where Ellie is." So what? It would a retcon of a retcon for the Fireflies to claim they can still make the vaccine.
4) Ellie also knows the vaccine cannot be made, so that part also makes no sense.
5) I like your enthusiasm though. Keep it up.
People with power always think they can do more than what they’re capable of. Fireflies may not have the doctor to execute a vaccine anymore (that we know of) but the knowledge of the subject still being out there that thwarted them may cause them to do something irrational. Like thinking they’re owed something they’re not entitled to. Wouldn’t be the first time.
I’d be stunned if Abby isn’t in the next game. I truly believe that her storyline is what puts the gears in motion for part 3. Otherwise, Ellie is out there doing what? Abby being with the fireflies brings the noise to Ellie, even with Abby not wanting that. Abby then has to act. Abby remembers that Ellie ultimately let her and Lev go. She chooses to help her.
I appreciate you watching and the comment. Endure and survive.
Ugh what pretentiousness. It just needs to progress the story, not a "concept". Part 1 did not have this "love concept", it's something Druckman retrofitted to justify the horrible story of part 2.
I don’t think it needs a concept either actually. I’m just citing what the man said since he kind of has influence on the stories ya know? Thanks for watching BJ
@@TyranosauRossI wasn't referring to you, was referring to Druckman.
@@BCJ1985 gotcha. My mistake
Every story has at least one theme. Part 1's theme, the major overall one, is most definitely about love, which is something that can be explored in many different ways and is throughout the game. I'm not going to write an entire essay here to explain that to you. You can go listen to the commentary between Neil, Troy, and Ashley on the PS4 version released one year after the initial release to confirm that.
But since you don't think that's the overall theme of the story, how exactly did you interpret Part 1? Themes are what drives the story, drives the characters through their conflicts, their decisions, their resolutions. Without a theme, you have nothing.
@@SpaghettiYOLOKing I reference the themes in the video. I know what the part 1 and 2 themes are. Not disagreeing with that. The point I should’ve clarified is that I think it’s odd that it’s taken 3.5 years to find a theme before considering the story. Druck said I have the theme, not the story. I find it hard to believe that he hasn’t thought about what happens to Ellie, Tommy, Dina, Abby, XYZ new character to introduce into the story because he didn’t have a theme yet. Like he can’t consider the story progression without first confirming the theme. But I’m also not a video game writer so what do I know. But I think that’s odd/hard to believe.
I think you may be talking to the other person though, but still wanted to clarify myself. I appreciate you watching.
They had their woke fun in the second part. Now they need to go back to being normal