What a fantastic inspiration to hear this. Thank you both. I especially thought the words 'social health' that Rachel uttered really struck me as a vital concept - something that I try enact with my friends, family and those whom I work with as much as possible. And Also John, your part talking about horror, hope and awe, resonated very strongly with me... In direct relation with the social health idea.
Only about halfway through this, just wanted to say how grateful I am that you had this conversation and shared it with us! I came out as transgender, changed my name and started hormone replacement therapy 4 years ago. I never, however, connected with the proposition that I have “always been a man”. I find this (romantic?) conception to be an erasure of my inheritance of biological, participatory and perspectival knowing from my first 30 years of life. I recently started to find philosophical framework in your videos to sense of my trans identity, in terms of the agent arena mismatch, as well as seeing my gender as aspirational towards a male divine double who I always new without seeing. Thank you again for sharing, I have been hoping there are other trans people who see things differently from the popular narrative.
Great talk. Learned a lot. Wish John had a better microphone - the current one sounds jarring, especially when John was interviewed on The Theory of Everything channel.
Rachel's approach is fascinating. Never thought about the transgender issue in this way. I think if more people learn about Rachel and her approach, society as a whole will be more able to understand and accept transgender people, and there will be less prejudice against the LGBT community .
Thank you for this great discussion John & Rachel !! I also want to create ecologies of practices. For me what deeply nourish me is natural mouvement (Rafe Kelly style) and freediving
I have a question about your idea of a “Community of Communities” and “stealing the culture” 40:45ish. I grew up and was raised in an ecumenical covenant Christian community which I have now come to label a Cult. They have said incredibly similar phrases to “being a community of communities” and living counter culturally. I was traumatized within this arena. Do you have a concept of avoiding a cult-like response (could be a possible response to your message given the meaning crisis)? Is this something you have considered? I have felt so at home watching your series’ and videos. When I heard you reference the community of communities and stealing the culture it gave me pause. I want to believe it’s exactly what I have been looking for - a Tolkienesque return home so to speak. A
I have also been traumatized by a religious community so please be assured that I deeply share your concern. Jamie wheal has done some work on avoiding cult formation that I think is useful. I am also hoping that a reconceptualization of the sacred as a dynamically evolving process within a religion that is not religion may also help. I am hoping that the dialectic into dialogos project I have been working on for the past two years will provide a psycho tech for accessing the collective intelligence of distributed cognition in a more reliably healthy manner. Not sure I am right but I am trying my best to address your important concern.
@@johnvervaeke thank you for your sincere response. Knowing that you have also been traumatized by a religious community makes me simultaneously sad and greatly heartened. Your knowledge from experience (participatory?) makes you more trustworthy for such a feat. And I know humans. We grasp onto ideas we don’t truly understand and fall for our own bullshit ( as I have come to understand thanks to your lectures). I almost wonder if it’s inevitable that there will be people who miss the point. Or perhaps a better way of looking at it would be to say, they haven’t gotten there yet? I’m honored by your response.
I hope you find a way to journey around the blockages that you've seen. Realise this: John's exploration of this persons transition process wasn't one of validation for its own sake. I also don't think it was motivated by a political or ideological sense of superiority. I think it is valuable that we explore these very real phenomena that are becoming more prevalent in our time. And I think we also need to have enough grace to afford others their own conclusions on these matters despite our differences. Much love to you, friend.
I resonate with Rachel's thinking. Just wonderful and exciting to listen too.
What a fantastic inspiration to hear this. Thank you both. I especially thought the words 'social health' that Rachel uttered really struck me as a vital concept - something that I try enact with my friends, family and those whom I work with as much as possible. And Also John, your part talking about horror, hope and awe, resonated very strongly with me... In direct relation with the social health idea.
Only about halfway through this, just wanted to say how grateful I am that you had this conversation and shared it with us!
I came out as transgender, changed my name and started hormone replacement therapy 4 years ago. I never, however, connected with the proposition that I have “always been a man”. I find this (romantic?) conception to be an erasure of my inheritance of biological, participatory and perspectival knowing from my first 30 years of life.
I recently started to find philosophical framework in your videos to sense of my trans identity, in terms of the agent arena mismatch, as well as seeing my gender as aspirational towards a male divine double who I always new without seeing.
Thank you again for sharing, I have been hoping there are other trans people who see things differently from the popular narrative.
Yes! To a sapiential frame on transition! Thank you both for this. May this framework spread like wildfire so we can afford “social health”!
Rachel, I just wanted to express my graditude for your courage. Agape 2 u. 💜
This is such a heartwarming discussion. Thank you John and Rachel.
Thanks Rachel and John!
Thanks Lee.
Great talk. Learned a lot. Wish John had a better microphone - the current one sounds jarring, especially when John was interviewed on The Theory of Everything channel.
Rachel's approach is fascinating. Never thought about the transgender issue in this way. I think if more people learn about Rachel and her approach, society as a whole will be more able to understand and accept transgender people, and there will be less prejudice against the LGBT community .
Thank you for this great discussion John & Rachel !!
I also want to create ecologies of practices. For me what deeply nourish me is natural mouvement (Rafe Kelly style) and freediving
Very moving!
Can someone link the conversation with Nora Bateson about authenticity?
I wonder what conversation is coming at the end of the month
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I have a question about your idea of a “Community of Communities” and “stealing the culture” 40:45ish.
I grew up and was raised in an ecumenical covenant Christian community which I have now come to label a Cult. They have said incredibly similar phrases to “being a community of communities” and living counter culturally. I was traumatized within this arena.
Do you have a concept of avoiding a cult-like response (could be a possible response to your message given the meaning crisis)? Is this something you have considered?
I have felt so at home watching your series’ and videos. When I heard you reference the community of communities and stealing the culture it gave me pause. I want to believe it’s exactly what I have been looking for - a Tolkienesque return home so to speak. A
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_the_Spirit
I have also been traumatized by a religious community so please be assured that I deeply share your concern. Jamie wheal has done some work on avoiding cult formation that I think is useful. I am also hoping that a reconceptualization of the sacred as a dynamically evolving process within a religion that is not religion may also help. I am hoping that the dialectic into dialogos project I have been working on for the past two years will provide a psycho tech for accessing the collective intelligence of distributed cognition in a more reliably healthy manner. Not sure I am right but I am trying my best to address your important concern.
@@johnvervaeke thank you for your sincere response. Knowing that you have also been traumatized by a religious community makes me simultaneously sad and greatly heartened. Your knowledge from experience (participatory?) makes you more trustworthy for such a feat.
And I know humans. We grasp onto ideas we don’t truly understand and fall for our own bullshit ( as I have come to understand thanks to your lectures).
I almost wonder if it’s inevitable that there will be people who miss the point. Or perhaps a better way of looking at it would be to say, they haven’t gotten there yet?
I’m honored by your response.
@@maidenmonster2589 I am glad you found my response helpful as I found your comment helpful.
Please put “sexual” or gender transition so ppl can find this conversation
I will no longer search for wisdom here.
Why?
I hope you find a way to journey around the blockages that you've seen.
Realise this:
John's exploration of this persons transition process wasn't one of validation for its own sake. I also don't think it was motivated by a political or ideological sense of superiority.
I think it is valuable that we explore these very real phenomena that are becoming more prevalent in our time. And I think we also need to have enough grace to afford others their own conclusions on these matters despite our differences.
Much love to you, friend.