"Make certain all your attacks hit! Avoid enemy attacks for sure! You do that, you'd never lose! You'd be the invincible Trainer!" - Barry, Pokémon D/P/Pt
i’m pretty new to the 1600+ ladder, hitting it for my first time about 2 weeks ago, using z-hypnosis xurkitree. imo z-detect is a perfectly fine strategy in the metagame. sure it relies on misses and a ~75% chance to work, but so does the most common sleep users (hypnosis 60%, sleep powder 75%), recharge move users besides necrozma (90% accuracy), and a lot more i won’t be listing here to keep it non ranty. anything above a 50% chance of working shouldn’t automatically be considered cheap and such. for example, one hit ko moves are uncompetitive because it’s a 30% chance of basically scoring a autowin in a 1v1 situation, while things like z-detect are far more consistent and have more counterplay besides luck. you can lose any matchup if you miss a move or etc, that’s the point i’m trying to say. - random ou noob p.s : gg elo, we played a while ago when you were testing kee berry mew, didn’t have a chance to say gg then. always a treat to play you and watch your videos
The only issue I have with this argument is that when you choose to use a strategy that uses moves with the ability to miss, you are accepting this risk every time you start a battle. In a way, you are in control of whether luck will be a factor in your victory or not. When facing z-detect, even if you choose to reduce risk and only use 100% accurate moves, you are forced into a game of "will my moves hit?" It's been a while since I've played 1v1 so I don't know first hand how it is to fight Z-detect, so I won't take a stance. I do think there is counterplay for every strategy used here, the issue might be preparing for Pokemon with multiple sets, like Dragonite.
@@amateur-disco your latter argument is questionable, because there are mons that have the same amount of versatility or even more than dragonite, such as charizard and gyarados and while many other versatile threats in the past were banned such as kyurem-b and koko, dragonite is really hard to prep for without using mold breaker or greninja, but gren just rose on viability rankings, and haxorus is a pretty good scarfer outside of mold breaker, but i do see why versatility can be a problem and restrict teambuilding. its just that dragonite and the current versatile threats were not nearly as centralizing as kyurem-b and koko. as for your point of 100% accurate moves vs z-detect, sure the rng is out of your control, but they are taking the risk to use z-detect. what if they do hit all their moves on a 75% chance? youre fucked then and you literally just wasted your z-move item slot and your z-move for the game. there is a opportunity cost with z-detect, unlike something like snorlax, who can just fit yawn+protect onto his moveset with no opportunity cost, and that got him banned.
You can still use Mind Reader or Lock-On with one hit KO moves. People should stop crying about RNG, because no matter what they do, RNG will never be removed from the game
@Randomizer225 But you're just listing counters to Mind Reader and Lock-On, they still don't invalidate the fact that they make OHKO moves 100% accurate, which means this kind of strategy will catch off-guard a lot of pokémon who don't rely on such status moves like for example all-out attackers and don't have Sturdy for their ability, but will be countered by status based pokémon and pokémon with Sturdy.
The problem with the counterplay argument is that these kind of strats require you run sub-optimal strats that your opponent can goad you into. It just forces 50/50 mind games. It forces you to send in your counter mon when you see the z-detect set, because if you don't send in your counter, you'll probably lose.
elo thanks for the great videos man, there’s so much work put into these and it’s always a fun time to watch. you manage to make everything about building teams and examining the meta engaging.
Smogon exists to distance in-game strategy with competitive strategy and transform competitive pokemon in a "easy and fair" type of game. This is why hitkill moves and evasion moves are banned, they transform the game into a gamble and are unhealthy for both sides, both were clearly made for in-game pokemon, the very existence of a viable evasion based strategy goes against smogon principles. With that being said i don't care if they ban it of not, never ever seen this on the ladder. Oh wait you just made a video on it oh god no pls ban send hELP
We have restrictions on evasion strats for a reason. If a move requiring no z crystal that granted you protect AND an evasion boost existed, the councils across every tier would hot ban it and nobody would be complaining.
@@bruhbruh4329 What is your point? That the opportunity cost of sacrificing your item and the restriction of being able to use the move only once do not matter? If your point is that Z-Detect should be banned because it would be too good if it was a regular move then your point is like saying that we should ban Regigigas because if he did not have Slow Start and instead had Huge Power he would have been banned immediately.
@@oneheckofabanana2016 No, it's that when you use z detect, it carries over into every single turn after that because of evasion and the fact nobody on the face of the earth is running defog or some shit in 1v1 to counter it because that'd be insane. Mons abusing z detect hardly needed the item anyway, they just needed the evasion cheese.
1) Consistency: the format needs to be consistent with its choices of what is allowed in the format. Banning ONLY jirachi but not sleep, any form of evasion boost or accuracy drop, or other rng-only related strats is inconsistent. If the council/community is ok with rng-strats outside of the current evasion clause, why ban anything at all? It's either "I want to keep 1v1 as rng-free as possible within reason" or "let's allow these strats that could generate a free win." --> Personally, playing against someone with any sort of evasion is not fun or interactive, regardless of their chance to win. 2) viability: z-detect hardly seems to affect the viability rankings, at least at the top. Though many of the top tier sets are mega forms, those sets with offensive z moves have less of an issue dealing with evasion. The real issue arises when mons start using substitute. Which means sound-based z moves are even better at securing the win (good thing there aren't any fairy types listed in this video). 3) Counterplay: moves that miss do not count as true counters. Taunt is an example. Only if taunt hits will it hinder the set. As far as team Counter-teaming goes, before laddering, check to see if anyone is using z-detect strats. If they are, either don't play or attempt to queue dodge. As discussed previously, z-detect stats have yet to affect viability, so it isn't a constant cancer affecting the ladder. Additionally, if you decide to queue into an atmosphere of z-detect, you can attempt to 'evasion proof' your team by filling optional move slots with appropriate counters. Additionally, clangorous soulblaze is a great move I hear. Somehow I've talking myself into asserting that z-detect isn't a meta breaker (currently) and shouldn't be regarded as an actual issue. There is counterplay, and one can easily avoid laddering vs z-detect by simply not queueing after checking the ladder. The real reason to vote ban or no-ban comes down to point 1: consistency of the format. Regardless of win percentage, should rng strats of any form be allowed?
Problem with the counterplay. There is a chance that any of the options that involve the accuracy check will lose if they get unlucky. The surefire options are: taunt, somehow sub before they do their win condition, and ohko z move/increased accuracy move that out damages healing (in the montage there was a garchomp with aerial ace lol that couldn't beat yanmega because it didn't have the damage). There is a problem when a lot of the supposed counters can't even win if they get unlucky. Additionally, it is not a problem that some mons rely on this strategy; if they are not fit for 1v1 then they are not fit for 1v1. - Eriey (that one guy with the peculiar zeraora)
Oh yeah and I liked the video, but as a 1v1 player my attention span is short and has trouble keeping up with the lengthy montage. Maybe put some of it in a separate video or something?
I just realized taunt can be missed lol. So just sub before they do their thing (somehow) or have a move that bypasses the accuracy check and does enough damage.
What I usually do against these is predict the possible Detect user and setup Shell Smash on the Detect turn and guarantee Z-Move with speed if I pulled the prementioned turns properly.
CptSawsbuck what about riolu? His entire thing is being able to copycat his own dig but if you z move second turn riolu doesn't get the chance to dig by getting obliterated by whatever because he is slower
Rip Hunter not really because riolu is paper and any decently strong attack (which is common in 1v1) will be enough to take out a sub forcing it to sub again until it cant riolu NEEDS the miss to get a free sub to then get a free dig
As far as copy-dig is concerned, that can be beat by using a priority move that will fail, such as medicham's fake out. riolu will then use copycat and fail
What I mean by this fyi is that most of these sets are simply neutered by the fact you can just infinitely switch around in singles making these shenanigans pointless lol
The reason I think this strategy isn’t ban worthy is because of a certain Pokémon who we all hate to face in 1v1, being cloyster. Cloyster can run haze and skill kink, along with multiple coverage options such as other stabs or shell smash to secure victory. While it will struggle with the hard hitting fightinium z options like conkeldurr or kartana...toxapex would be your go to instead. Toxapex raw bulk with haze, scald, recover and baneful bunker can counter most of not all of the gimmicks on turn two onward. And you don’t have to run either set if you don’t want to, there are plenty of haze Pokémon all of which are suitable for 1v1 meta, just simply put there is no actual reason to ban this strategy above others.
Z Detect is basically protect that makes your opponent use thunder, and since i always hit thunder, and I am a demographically average person in the US and the US is the country where most Pokemon Showdown players are, nobody ever misses, ergo dw its not broked
i just want to thank you for making competitive pokemon something even a layman, like myself who never played outside of the rpg itself, can understand. If possible, could you go over the actual mindset when brewing team comps in pokemon? The reason for playing 1 pokemon over another for the specific team-slot you are building? Like, I'm assuming you don't just build a 6-sweeper comp, when choosing your comp, what are the basic understandings and why?
Zi Rong Li the method is to dodge all of the moves and stalling it down... so you’re not really aiming to hit. Just avoid damage. And 75% eq out of 5 hits plus detecting is situational.
I mean tbh u could just quit, but there are moves with the description "THIS ATTACK WILL ALWAYS HIT" or something like that. I just cant think of one rn
Not that it particularly matters since everyone gets the point, but just for future reference, 1.00 represents 100%. Not 100. The equation youre looking for is 1-(.75^5)=??, not 100-(75^5)=??.
@@EloBandit yeah I just built a rioul without finishing your video, then took it into online and instantly three people with bird or levitate then a different team with earquake so posted because I think that riolu is prob the least successful because flying types and mons running earthquake are very very common
would focus sash riolu work to set up the prankster dig without needing a miss? just take a hit, to dig on the first turn then after than you can prankster copycat as much as you like
Yeah, but there's so many ways to cheese it. Like with Contrary. Z-Detect was a Z-Move, which required special circumstances, so they probably overlooked it for awhile.
Zero tolerance, if you inflict any evasion boosts upon yourself you should lose the match automatically, be it with a move, an ability or an item. That's the easiest and most logical way around the issue.
OMG it looks so similar to the strategy I invented for Grovyle and Riolu in my pokemon mystery dungeon webcomic! using dig, leechseed/toxic, detect and subs
@@royplatt455 I never went past 20 pages.. well I do have the whole story ready to be drawn, I want to do it one day.. www.deviantart.com/devilantrat/gallery/32027163/PMD-webcomic
@@royplatt455 well I'm much better now than back then but the problem is that I have so many other projects.. and right now I am kinda employed full time..
@@EloBandit Thanks a lot and what about a defensive pukyumuku.It just uses toxic and spams recover reflect and light screen and is carrying light clay I think since it always get max turn protection.
Light Screen Pyukumuku is an option. I actually like Psychium Z Light Screen because it gives an additional boost to sp def and can't be Tricked away by a scarfed PorygonZ.
I feel like Seviper is a great counter. You can give it infiltrator. Its got Haze, Substitute, Earthquake and taunt. We can do this guys! Lets make a great counter together! (Any ideas?)
I mean, it wouldn't really be a counter. Seviper in the long run would require a fair bit if set-up, and stat wise wouldn't be able to do that much besides getting a single pokemon poisoned. Also, you forgot the riolu strategy mentioned uses dig, and would outspeed and evade seviper before it can attack. And Seviper is in an iffy speed teir against these sets.
@@eelektrosssucc1606 Earthquake ignores dig. Infiltrator ignores sub. Turn1 you sub. Because riolu is gping to z detect. Turn2 you hase. Because riolu is going to sub. Turn3 you EQ. So you can kill it. This works with anyone that isn't a flying type. I have already done it l.
I used this technique once in doubles. I was 1-3 down and only had my kartana with z-fighting left. Normally I would've used all out pummeling, but because the other pokemon could just knock me out I decided to use z-detect. I ended up winning the battle because my opponent kept missing 😂
Klefkey: uses swagger, gets hit but is carrying eject button switch in to win mon (I do lvl 1 cotoney) Swagger increases detect evasion to 50% plus 25%- 75% plus substitute to wait tell one miss After you win
Strategy banned Dec 28, 2018 www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-metagame-discussion.3587523/page-73#post-7996957
Can we get an f in the chat
Unfortunate
Well at least I got to mess about with it whilst it lasted lol.
This has been a thing for so long, and no one new. That's competitive pokemon for ya lol
Rip
HIT OR MISS
I guess they miss 76.27% of the time, huh?
I wondered how long this video would be up before that comment lmao
@@EloBandit Low hanging fruit honestly.
You got a boyfriend I bet he doesnt crit you
@@jacksmith8689 he gonna find other z-crystal , he won't miss ya .
he gonna ps and get STAB like wiz khalifa
Love u all 😘 U are all funny !!
"Make certain all your attacks hit! Avoid enemy attacks for sure! You do that, you'd never lose! You'd be the invincible Trainer!"
- Barry, Pokémon D/P/Pt
Protect: smol brain
Z Detect: *large brain*
Z sand attack: *G A L A X Y B R A I N*
That's dope. How could you abuse it?
Sappy 😂😂😂
Bright Powder: NEBULA BRAIN
Lax Incense: O N E W I T H T H E U N I V E R S E
*KEEN EYE*
I gotta say, whoever figured out that Riolu set is a damn genius. The stuff people can figure out with prankster never ceases to amaze me.
I credit the user BattleDragon for popularizing Dig Copycat in gen6 ORAS. This is simply my best adaptation to generation 7!
I think it goes much deeper. I still remember prankster whirlwind riolu in BW.
Prankster whirlwind was the best
Yeah, prankster whirlwind was cool too but a lot simpler than the genius that was prankster dig copycat shenanigans.
I still have riolu's with these sets..
I should use them more often.
When you think about it, Z-detect Sceptile is just dodgy Jumpluff 🤔.
Huh? Skeptile is more offense
I swear I would pay to have presentation skills like Elo Bandit
UNDISPUTED fact:
Ok. It is pretty fun to say.
You forgot the true z-detect subseed counter.
Leech seed accuracy.
i’m pretty new to the 1600+ ladder, hitting it for my first time about 2 weeks ago, using z-hypnosis xurkitree. imo z-detect is a perfectly fine strategy in the metagame. sure it relies on misses and a ~75% chance to work, but so does the most common sleep users (hypnosis 60%, sleep powder 75%), recharge move users besides necrozma (90% accuracy), and a lot more i won’t be listing here to keep it non ranty. anything above a 50% chance of working shouldn’t automatically be considered cheap and such. for example, one hit ko moves are uncompetitive because it’s a 30% chance of basically scoring a autowin in a 1v1 situation, while things like z-detect are far more consistent and have more counterplay besides luck. you can lose any matchup if you miss a move or etc, that’s the point i’m trying to say. - random ou noob
p.s : gg elo, we played a while ago when you were testing kee berry mew, didn’t have a chance to say gg then. always a treat to play you and watch your videos
The only issue I have with this argument is that when you choose to use a strategy that uses moves with the ability to miss, you are accepting this risk every time you start a battle. In a way, you are in control of whether luck will be a factor in your victory or not. When facing z-detect, even if you choose to reduce risk and only use 100% accurate moves, you are forced into a game of "will my moves hit?" It's been a while since I've played 1v1 so I don't know first hand how it is to fight Z-detect, so I won't take a stance. I do think there is counterplay for every strategy used here, the issue might be preparing for Pokemon with multiple sets, like Dragonite.
@@amateur-disco your latter argument is questionable, because there are mons that have the same amount of versatility or even more than dragonite, such as charizard and gyarados and while many other versatile threats in the past were banned such as kyurem-b and koko, dragonite is really hard to prep for without using mold breaker or greninja, but gren just rose on viability rankings, and haxorus is a pretty good scarfer outside of mold breaker, but i do see why versatility can be a problem and restrict teambuilding. its just that dragonite and the current versatile threats were not nearly as centralizing as kyurem-b and koko. as for your point of 100% accurate moves vs z-detect, sure the rng is out of your control, but they are taking the risk to use z-detect. what if they do hit all their moves on a 75% chance? youre fucked then and you literally just wasted your z-move item slot and your z-move for the game. there is a opportunity cost with z-detect, unlike something like snorlax, who can just fit yawn+protect onto his moveset with no opportunity cost, and that got him banned.
@Randomizer225 who knows maybe if z-detect stays unbanned more people will use coil zygarde
You can still use Mind Reader or Lock-On with one hit KO moves. People should stop crying about RNG, because no matter what they do, RNG will never be removed from the game
@Randomizer225 But you're just listing counters to Mind Reader and Lock-On, they still don't invalidate the fact that they make OHKO moves 100% accurate, which means this kind of strategy will catch off-guard a lot of pokémon who don't rely on such status moves like for example all-out attackers and don't have Sturdy for their ability, but will be countered by status based pokémon and pokémon with Sturdy.
Elo has a 25% chance of Missing with the ban.
Builds that are fun, creative and work well. Elo Bandit just nails the competitive game.
(And that eletronic music, tho ^^)
Me: Wants to use this strategy
Smogon: Bans strategy on my birthday
Me: *Surprised Pikachu*
14:42 feel kinda bad for this crustle player because he did everything right and should have gotten the win if not for evasion shenanigans
The problem with the counterplay argument is that these kind of strats require you run sub-optimal strats that your opponent can goad you into. It just forces 50/50 mind games. It forces you to send in your counter mon when you see the z-detect set, because if you don't send in your counter, you'll probably lose.
This is true of FEAR, speedtraps, and some sturdy mons as well though.
elo thanks for the great videos man, there’s so much work put into these and it’s always a fun time to watch. you manage to make everything about building teams and examining the meta engaging.
You make great presentations. I don’t play competitive Pokemon, but I think it’s interesting to watch and learn about, so thank you.
Smogon exists to distance in-game strategy with competitive strategy and transform competitive pokemon in a "easy and fair" type of game.
This is why hitkill moves and evasion moves are banned, they transform the game into a gamble and are unhealthy for both sides, both were clearly made for in-game pokemon, the very existence of a viable evasion based strategy goes against smogon principles.
With that being said i don't care if they ban it of not, never ever seen this on the ladder. Oh wait you just made a video on it oh god no pls ban send hELP
We have restrictions on evasion strats for a reason. If a move requiring no z crystal that granted you protect AND an evasion boost existed, the councils across every tier would hot ban it and nobody would be complaining.
@@bruhbruh4329 What is your point? That the opportunity cost of sacrificing your item and the restriction of being able to use the move only once do not matter? If your point is that Z-Detect should be banned because it would be too good if it was a regular move then your point is like saying that we should ban Regigigas because if he did not have Slow Start and instead had Huge Power he would have been banned immediately.
@@oneheckofabanana2016 No, it's that when you use z detect, it carries over into every single turn after that because of evasion and the fact nobody on the face of the earth is running defog or some shit in 1v1 to counter it because that'd be insane. Mons abusing z detect hardly needed the item anyway, they just needed the evasion cheese.
Simple counter: keen eye specs chatot
Boomburst'em all
If you put klefkey with swagger and eject button first you up your odds of evading the enemy
I hate Z Detect with a passion so much so I took a break using my main team just to beat it
That aerial ace Garchomp wasn’t having it lol
Ah so this why I've been seeing z detect
14:27 gotta love the blastoise's name
1) Consistency: the format needs to be consistent with its choices of what is allowed in the format. Banning ONLY jirachi but not sleep, any form of evasion boost or accuracy drop, or other rng-only related strats is inconsistent. If the council/community is ok with rng-strats outside of the current evasion clause, why ban anything at all? It's either "I want to keep 1v1 as rng-free as possible within reason" or "let's allow these strats that could generate a free win." --> Personally, playing against someone with any sort of evasion is not fun or interactive, regardless of their chance to win.
2) viability: z-detect hardly seems to affect the viability rankings, at least at the top. Though many of the top tier sets are mega forms, those sets with offensive z moves have less of an issue dealing with evasion. The real issue arises when mons start using substitute. Which means sound-based z moves are even better at securing the win (good thing there aren't any fairy types listed in this video).
3) Counterplay: moves that miss do not count as true counters. Taunt is an example. Only if taunt hits will it hinder the set. As far as team Counter-teaming goes, before laddering, check to see if anyone is using z-detect strats. If they are, either don't play or attempt to queue dodge. As discussed previously, z-detect stats have yet to affect viability, so it isn't a constant cancer affecting the ladder. Additionally, if you decide to queue into an atmosphere of z-detect, you can attempt to 'evasion proof' your team by filling optional move slots with appropriate counters. Additionally, clangorous soulblaze is a great move I hear.
Somehow I've talking myself into asserting that z-detect isn't a meta breaker (currently) and shouldn't be regarded as an actual issue. There is counterplay, and one can easily avoid laddering vs z-detect by simply not queueing after checking the ladder. The real reason to vote ban or no-ban comes down to point 1: consistency of the format. Regardless of win percentage, should rng strats of any form be allowed?
I say yes rng should. Like Z detect seems fun I wouldn't care losing too it.
I thought raising evasion was always illegal.
Problem with the counterplay. There is a chance that any of the options that involve the accuracy check will lose if they get unlucky. The surefire options are: taunt, somehow sub before they do their win condition, and ohko z move/increased accuracy move that out damages healing (in the montage there was a garchomp with aerial ace lol that couldn't beat yanmega because it didn't have the damage). There is a problem when a lot of the supposed counters can't even win if they get unlucky. Additionally, it is not a problem that some mons rely on this strategy; if they are not fit for 1v1 then they are not fit for 1v1. - Eriey (that one guy with the peculiar zeraora)
Oh yeah and I liked the video, but as a 1v1 player my attention span is short and has trouble keeping up with the lengthy montage. Maybe put some of it in a separate video or something?
I just realized taunt can be missed lol. So just sub before they do their thing (somehow) or have a move that bypasses the accuracy check and does enough damage.
Don't agree with the video length. You can just skip whatever you like on UA-cam and come back later!
Even if a counter misses once, these builds take several turns to get their kills. you get another shot
What I usually do against these is predict the possible Detect user and setup Shell Smash on the Detect turn and guarantee Z-Move with speed if I pulled the prementioned turns properly.
What if riolu tho
CptSawsbuck what about riolu? His entire thing is being able to copycat his own dig but if you z move second turn riolu doesn't get the chance to dig by getting obliterated by whatever because he is slower
@@raysay1818 riolu could sub the z move turn and then use the same strat though
Rip Hunter not really because riolu is paper and any decently strong attack (which is common in 1v1) will be enough to take out a sub forcing it to sub again until it cant riolu NEEDS the miss to get a free sub to then get a free dig
@@raysay1818 yeah but that's what the entire strategy is dependent on though
This is why I like you...almost always showing what you mean not just talking about it and leaving it at that
Best part about your videos are being able to ladder with your counters haha
Its been long elo. Missed your 1v1 videos
Great video. Very insightful.
I get unreasonably excited when you upload
1:Uses Z-detect
Opponent:*Uses feint attack*
1:Lays down and cry
1: *uses Z-detect again*
other opponent: *uses a NoGuardMon*
I also like the salazzle sub toxic disable set but is easily shut down by taunt.
if you dont care about targeting steel or poison type, turns out salazzle's hidden ability is oblivious
You forgot to mention the bulky water type Suicune..... Rest, Scald, Detect, Calm mind and Inner Focus
I think Riolu’s set with that Z move, needs Toxic for flying types
I was doing it only with Yanmega. Surprisingly worked in 4P battles.
Tbh the best z-detecter is yanmega with detect sub hypnosis and air slash
Its a ridiculous rng set
@LeCoolFace High base speed for the flinch and speed boost + evasion bs. Not to mention hypnosis this is actually pretty good
@LeCoolFace everything has checks
As far as copy-dig is concerned, that can be beat by using a priority move that will fail, such as medicham's fake out. riolu will then use copycat and fail
Maaaan this video and all these z detect Pokemon concepts are sooo cool I wish they could be pulled off in singles too 😭
What I mean by this fyi is that most of these sets are simply neutered by the fact you can just infinitely switch around in singles making these shenanigans pointless lol
Riolu strat sucks can't hit levitate, flying tipes, and earwuake hits you in sticking to lvl 1 cotoney
not sure if I missed something on the Riolu strat, but wouldn't Earthquake technically work against that?
Yes it would!
Smogon: *Creates clausle to ban evasion moves*
Players: *Uses Z-Detect*
Smogon: excuse me what the fuck
if its only a +1 boost then its fine
The reason I think this strategy isn’t ban worthy is because of a certain Pokémon who we all hate to face in 1v1, being cloyster. Cloyster can run haze and skill kink, along with multiple coverage options such as other stabs or shell smash to secure victory. While it will struggle with the hard hitting fightinium z options like conkeldurr or kartana...toxapex would be your go to instead. Toxapex raw bulk with haze, scald, recover and baneful bunker can counter most of not all of the gimmicks on turn two onward.
And you don’t have to run either set if you don’t want to, there are plenty of haze Pokémon all of which are suitable for 1v1 meta, just simply put there is no actual reason to ban this strategy above others.
used Taunt!
It's Super Effective!
I closed the tab!
This whole video sounds like it's just you yelling: RUN AERIAL ACE OR GET CRUSHED
FUCKING FINALLY!!!! THANK YOU ELTON BONDAGE FOR THIS HIGH QUALITY CONTENT!!!!!!!! YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!
Z Detect is basically protect that makes your opponent use thunder, and since i always hit thunder, and I am a demographically average person in the US and the US is the country where most Pokemon Showdown players are, nobody ever misses, ergo dw its not broked
Riolu vs a flying type? Also is the same not possible in the form of "Fly"? Possibly murkrow
That riolu set is actually genius
Riolu strat still works even better without chance, with custap berry and substitute
hmm, it seems evasion strats ALWAYS get banned
i just want to thank you for making competitive pokemon something even a layman, like myself who never played outside of the rpg itself, can understand. If possible, could you go over the actual mindset when brewing team comps in pokemon? The reason for playing 1 pokemon over another for the specific team-slot you are building? Like, I'm assuming you don't just build a 6-sweeper comp, when choosing your comp, what are the basic understandings and why?
Check out my Teambuilding Guide for 1v1 if you're interested in that kind of material.
wish they ban the bright powder, its like a mini zdetect but doesnt waste a move slot
So how do we counter it?
Counters at 18:55
Zi Rong Li the method is to dodge all of the moves and stalling it down... so you’re not really aiming to hit. Just avoid damage. And 75% eq out of 5 hits plus detecting is situational.
I mean tbh u could just quit, but there are moves with the description "THIS ATTACK WILL ALWAYS HIT" or something like that. I just cant think of one rn
Trick room also stops it, No Guard stops it, Magic Bounce stops most of the sets, etc
Infiltrator Crobat
At least with Riolu you can use earthquake to hit it when its using dig so charizards with earthquake crap on it
Why isn’t the yanmega z detect flash set mentioned? It doubles your opportunities to have a miss
Flash is not allowed in 1v1
Elo Bandit oh gotcha cuz I use that set in other tiers to mess around and make people mad lol
YAAYYY ELO BANDIT VID
Can any of these strategies be used to reliably beat the battle tree? I don't wanna deal with rigged RNG, Sheer Cold everhit and such crap again
For the Riolu, why couldn't something like focus sash work instead?
Focus Sash is banned in 1v1
Hey Elo,can you make a video about why zygarde was banned from ou
Wait... I’m guessing that since it boosts evasion, Z-Detect is not allowed in standard Smogon?
Articuno with snowcloak and zdetect would work in vgc but i think primals are in now so it wont be very useful
How many speed EVs do I need to outspeed scarf weavile?
Does anything happen if 2 magic bounce pokemon were out on the same field and one were to set a hazard?
It will only bounce once, hitting the user or the user's side.
Can you still do prankster copycat whirlwind? also copycat and dig is genius
Na copycat phasing was removed in gen 6, i believe assist also cant pick phasing moves either.
Yay im finally in a vid with Elo Bandit!!!
Homie I got you with that DNB Vote if you get yourself some reqs
same
18:42
*cough* deo-s *cough*
It looks like you presented this in class. I hope you got an A.
U have a lot of fans. 75% of the people on the 1v1 ladder Inc me are running these teams.
Ikr, i had to change my team to counter this
@@bluips2945 I think it's fun though. But yea a lot of people did that.
Wait, how did you use riolu against incineroar? Doesnt prankster moves fail against dark types? Or am I missing something?
Prankster moves do normally fail vs dark types. However, this doesn't apply to moves that call other moves, like Assist or Copycat.
@@EloBandit thanks for the explanation dude. Keep up the good work.
Oh Pokémon...... How people break you
Not that it particularly matters since everyone gets the point, but just for future reference, 1.00 represents 100%. Not 100. The equation youre looking for is 1-(.75^5)=??, not 100-(75^5)=??.
Hey Elo Bandit 0/
Quick question: Do you use the nickname "Hyperbeam Spam" on occasion ?
Hyperbeam Spam is not me unfortunately.
@@EloBandit Ah, Thought i had the pleasure of battling you n___n
Thanks for the reply, have a good day!
What if they have a flying type then dig doesn't affect them
I mentioned type immunities as the last Counter listed. Flying types would fit this category.
@@EloBandit yeah I just built a rioul without finishing your video, then took it into online and instantly three people with bird or levitate then a different team with earquake so posted because I think that riolu is prob the least successful because flying types and mons running earthquake are very very common
would prankster taunt-toxic defeat this set? or does the priority from detect carry over to z detect?
Detect and Z-Detect out prioritize Prankster, but the Prankster can likely get a Toxic off before Substitute.
@ But you can Taunt Substitute and recovery moves.
would focus sash riolu work to set up the prankster dig without needing a miss?
just take a hit, to dig on the first turn then after than you can prankster copycat as much as you like
Sash is banned in 1v1
Elo Bandit oh yeah i forgot my b
I thought ANYTHING that increased evasion was automatically banned, no?
Yeah, but there's so many ways to cheese it. Like with Contrary.
Z-Detect was a Z-Move, which required special circumstances, so they probably overlooked it for awhile.
Zero tolerance, if you inflict any evasion boosts upon yourself you should lose the match automatically, be it with a move, an ability or an item. That's the easiest and most logical way around the issue.
God that riolu setup makes me wanna puke
More liked Elo BANNED-et amrite?
What do they mean with banned? Nintendo patched it? Or community just don't like it?
1v1 community has decided to ban the strategy.
OMG it looks so similar to the strategy I invented for Grovyle and Riolu in my pokemon mystery dungeon webcomic!
using dig, leechseed/toxic, detect and subs
Link?
@@royplatt455 I never went past 20 pages.. well I do have the whole story ready to be drawn, I want to do it one day.. www.deviantart.com/devilantrat/gallery/32027163/PMD-webcomic
@@royplatt455 at least the more I wait until I draw it the cooler it will look if I happen to do it one day.. ouch that's a very bad philosophy
@@renarddubois940 You go for it. You got this.
@@royplatt455 well I'm much better now than back then but the problem is that I have so many other projects.. and right now I am kinda employed full time..
He’s backkk!
How did I miss this video
He's alive
@Elo Bandit how do I counter a scarfed porygon z with hyper beam without scarfing my own mons.
Sturdy Pokemon, Steel, Ghost, or Rock types. Assault Vest or high natural Special Defense (i.e. tapu fini)
@@EloBandit Thanks a lot and what about a defensive pukyumuku.It just uses toxic and spams recover reflect and light screen and is carrying light clay I think since it always get max turn protection.
Light Screen Pyukumuku is an option. I actually like Psychium Z Light Screen because it gives an additional boost to sp def and can't be Tricked away by a scarfed PorygonZ.
@@EloBandit Well the thing is someone has been using the light clay set on me for a long time now,I was actually looking for a counter.😁
Ah, I see. Toxic usually works, or a powerful Electric move.
I feel like Seviper is a great counter.
You can give it infiltrator. Its got Haze, Substitute, Earthquake and taunt.
We can do this guys! Lets make a great counter together! (Any ideas?)
I mean, it wouldn't really be a counter.
Seviper in the long run would require a fair bit if set-up, and stat wise wouldn't be able to do that much besides getting a single pokemon poisoned.
Also, you forgot the riolu strategy mentioned uses dig, and would outspeed and evade seviper before it can attack. And Seviper is in an iffy speed teir against these sets.
The other thing is even with earthquake, seviper isn't going to do enough damage to take out the riolu anyway.
@@eelektrosssucc1606 Earthquake ignores dig. Infiltrator ignores sub.
Turn1 you sub. Because riolu is gping to z detect.
Turn2 you hase. Because riolu is going to sub.
Turn3 you EQ. So you can kill it.
This works with anyone that isn't a flying type. I have already done it l.
Is there even any counter for that Riolu? I could see it being viable even in OU
I have fought with 10000 z detect players and lemme tell you.
EQ destroys riolu
Proyect LEE Haha true, forgot that there's a way to hit a digging opponent
Literally any priority, haze, taunt, move disabling, anything that's flying or packs levitate.
Thought evasion clause was a thing in 1v1
Only applies to double team and minimize
ugh i guess ill prankster taunt on every team or use hone claws
Omg you're a genius
I used this technique once in doubles. I was 1-3 down and only had my kartana with z-fighting left. Normally I would've used all out pummeling, but because the other pokemon could just knock me out I decided to use z-detect. I ended up winning the battle because my opponent kept missing 😂
omg elo bandit made a vid
Hi Elo,Do u know how to beat z detect riolu without taunt?
Earthquake!
Priority
@@EloBandit Ty
Klefkey: uses swagger, gets hit but is carrying eject button switch in to win mon (I do lvl 1 cotoney)
Swagger increases detect evasion to 50% plus 25%- 75% plus substitute to wait tell one miss
After you win
that is not how pokemon works
thank god for uproar pory-z
I would say Elo Bandit but its For*bandit* ...
Sorry I suck
If you do anymore of these in 2020, you gotta slow them down just a hair. Lol. I almost had a stroke trying to follow the plays.
1v1 is luck based just on what pokemon you choose to send out