What else stings about Rise of Lyric is that some people think it was made by Sonic Team. I got in a conversation with a guy in my old day job and he was all "Sonic Team can't make good games anymore; look at Rise of Lyric.". I told him it was made entirely in the US and then he paused and said "We f**ked up."
That was awkward. But yeah Rise of Lyric overall was so bad it’s generic. At least with Sonic 06 & Forces have some good ideas with bad executions but with the former it has a solid balance of good and bad. Sonic Boom overall feels like a waste of time and nothing out of it.
No it was still Saga on that one. Go which What Happened Sonic Boom. Because boy did they really miss up. To the point I say now on you need to have it in paper when making a sonic game for saga.
@@OneYuDBZSlayers The game was made by Sanzaru in the US dude, the same developer who made Sly 4. Sonic Team did not make Sonic Boom. And Sega is a publishing company, not a development team. EDIT: Sorry I’m stupid and was going off memory. Big Red Button made Rise of Lyric, Sanzaru made Shattered Crystal.
Fun fact, the game was originally going to be completely different with more focus on Sonic's origins and the history of the world. Then SEGA went behind Big Red Button's back and made the series without telling them, then told them to scrap their work and make their game based on the series in only a short amount of time before its scheduled release.
Is that why the show has barely anything to do with the game? I know that even the 3Ds game’s story was handled by the show’s staff, so the tone is different there. I remember reading an article around the show’s airing from Sonic stadium that did some research on this. They found that both the show and BRB teams had no communication with each other. The only evidence to suggest this though is the inconsistencies between the game and show’s plot. Eggman also stole Lyrics button and used it as a gauntlet at the end of ROL, but in the show, it’s just a prop on it’s wrist that does nothing.
I think the only reason people got upset about the boom designs is because people thought it was going to be a permanent change. But when they announced this was a alternative element people got more accepting of the designs
Yeah I was definitely one of those people pretty vocal about how I didn't like the designs. I didnt go to like Chris Chan levels or anything, but once I found out about it being an alternate universe or side thing, I got more accepting
I was indifferent to em back then and still am now, minus Knuckles (he just looks way too humanoid) none of them change the character designs to make a difference
There were rumors that Sonic Boom actually was going to be the new regular Sonic but after RoL crashed and burned, these plans were swiftly cancelled. Though I’m pretty sure those mostly stemmed from that one interview where they referred to Modern Sonic as “Legacy Sonic” as well as the fact that there was basically no Sonic content that didn’t involve Boom in some way between the release of Lost World and Mania, with Mania being something SEGA couldn’t even have planned for ahead of the time.
Sonic Boom has a seriously interesting development story. I'd recommend the 'Sonic Boom - What Happened' video by Matt Mcmuscles for anyone interested. He does a really good job dissection the games history
Here's another recommendation: "A Sonic Boom Retrospective" made by Palette, he goes into painful details about it's original concept, atrocious development, and more
Another MattMcMuscles Man of culture he’s covered a lot of Sonic Games because of Sega constantly mishandling the franchise, its like them walking on a tightrope while juggling eggs lmao.
Honestly, for me this was the game that made me think 06 wasn’t as bad as people thought. Both games have glitches, but at least 06 glitches you could use a lot of them to your advantage. Also, some of the glitches in 06 to me are pretty fun and hilarious. I also agree with you Sega should stop trying to rush games out because of this one of the biggest problems of current Sonic games
If I heard things correctly frontiers is gonna change all this, thanks to takashi izuka!(and based on what I heard:m.ua-cam.com/video/lixTJBSJTzY/v-deo.html! )That's saying a lot!
When i played through 06 i nevered encounter any of the glitches i saw on youtube its either there something wrong with everyone else copy of 06 or im just better at the game then most people.
Yeah when i played 06 the only three glitches i ran into were shadows buggy glitch, the knuckles wall glitch but i quickly figured out how to do it, and sonic hitting things in mach speed sections
I don’t know if it’s just me, but that era of Sonic from 2013-2019 felt like an era of depression. I got into the fanbase in 2021, but from what I’ve learned, all Sonic had even going for them was it’s self-deprecated jokes about how much they suck. It felt like the bullied kid that wanted to be accepted by everyone else that bullied them by making fun of themselves, in hopes that they’d stop. But in end, all it showed to the bullies was that even the kid knows they suck and know that they are worthless. Thank god for the Sonic movie being a massive success.
late comment but take it from a Fan whose been there since the 90s, Your right the 1 2 punch of Shadow and 06 brought the house down then after colors there was just this sorta 'rebranding' of Make sonic a punchline outside of winners like the Movies and Mania. Im glad they finally started to clean up the act with the movies being good.
Another late comment. Personally, I feel like the “meta era” as J called it didn’t really begin until the second season of the Sonic Boom cartoon. And really that whole era just suffered from what I christened “Deadpool Syndrome,” named after the character from Marvel Comics (X-Men specifically) of the same name. Following the release of the first Deadpool movie in 2016, which was universally acclaimed by critics, audiences, and X-Men fans alike, many people in the industry wanted to capitalize on post-ironic humor (which is the type of humor that was used in the movie, and should be looked into further); with Sonic being no different. However, the problem was that post-ironic humor works for Deadpool; but doesn’t work for Sonic. The reason? Simple. *That’s what Deadpool is as a character.* Deadpool is supposed to be a parody of the character Deathstroke from DC Comics; as such, it makes sense for a character like Deadpool to make fourth-wall breaking quips. But Sonic just isn’t that type of character where that can work and it feels authentic.
All jokes aside, it's such a shame that because of this game's existence we never got a 3rd season for the Sonic Boom TV show, regardless as to what people think of it, it was easily the best thing to come out of this spinoff franchise, RIP Sonic Boom.
We didn’t get a third season of the TV show because nobody was watching the damn thing. It had abysmal ratings when it aired, it was lucky to even get a season 2. Rise of Lyric had nothing to do with its cancellation.
I heard Fire and Ice was pretty good too but yes I agree the tv show is heavily underrated. Dave the Intern was one of my favorite characters in the show and I would like to see him come back some day maybe
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios most of the fans of it probably only watched clips on UA-cam and Twitter instead of actually tuning in so that probably put a dent in the potential of season 3
This was the game that showed SEGA learned literally nothing from 06’s failure. The fact that they let another rushed, buggy game to come out after 06 despite trying so hard to “not create another 06” shows they thought the reason that game bombed critically was because of the story and adventure formula and not because it was rushed which is why they were abandoning all of this slowly by the time Colors came out. What pisses me off even more is that they didn’t learn anything from THIS GAME EITHER. Looking at the development of Colors Ultimate and Origins, it shows they still let rushed and buggy Sonic games come out and will continue to do so in the future. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Frontiers launched like this despite all the good stuff we’ve seen so far. SEGA treats their own damn mascot so horribly yet treats series such as Yakuza and Persona with the respect they deserve.
Well maybe sonic team did because lost world and forces barely had glitches that ruined the experience but the games are just bad because the gameplay is not good enough but sega of japan? no they learned nothing but shit .
I am not very well-versed on the topic, but I’ve been binging videos the past few days and it seems like there’s a big disconnect (?) between SEGA of America and SEGA of Japan in terms of Sonic. I guess Sonic is only popular in the west so Sonic media has a lower budget and is treated a lot worse. (Don’t quote me on this lol If I’m wrong, please someone correct me.)
@@zigzagintrusion There is no Sega of America anymore. Back in the 90's the US branch was independent from SoJ, but they have been reintegrated back into SoJ I think in the 2000's. Sonic always been more popular in the west. For some reason Sonic never cracked the japanese market. All of Sega's IPs are very successful in Japan, and Sega is a domestic market centric company. Because their main source of revenue is gambling machines, they put more effort in games that appeal to japanese players. That leaves Sonic out. Also, compared to their other sources of revenue, Sonic is one of the lowest in the list. Even the msot well received Sonic games failed to bring much profits. Since the PS2 era there's not much a place for platformers aside from Mario and some indies. Yakuza and Persona appeal more to the AAA masses than a mascot platformer. Also, Yakuza is good PR for the actual Yazuka, which Sega's parent company Sammy has ties to.
As much as I despise the Boom games, the tv show helped introduce my little cousins to Sonic and now we all bond over the series together. Also, the Boom comics by Archie were super fun and very underappreciated imo
It's crazy how Sega was both dumb enough to screw up like this again and just how devastating this game was to Sega and Big Red Button. I remember being there after this game lead to alot of lay offs at Sega and effectively ended the yearly Sonic game tradition.
I think what keeps me around in the sonic series is that, although It has many setbacks, the games never feel like they're callously thrown out to appease the masses. All these failures feel like someone had a dream and a vision. I like those dreams and visions, and I wish better for them.
@@modmaker7617 I feel like this show’s popularity mostly stems from people watching clips out of context on UA-cam. If you watch the episodes on full, you’ll find that the writing has absolutely no competence in naturally leading characters and events to their punchlines. It just beats you over the head with whatever the writers thought was funny regardless of whether or not it makes sense or fits the character in question. Amy in particular has like six different personalities between which she rotates depending on what they want the joke with her to be. The jokes take priority over everything and it’s clearly meant to be watched with your brain turned off, which would be fine if the show didn’t have this smug energy to it. Like, I saw the interviews before it premiered, the creators were legit convinced they were creating a “clever comedy” with this freaking Sonic cartoon. You don’t get to feel clever about jabs at performative feminism when your Boys vs Girls episode is the least self aware episode in the whole show. Using cliches in a comedic setting is not the same as parodying them. You don’t get to call your show “smart comedy” when most of your jokes only have one layer. And one of those jokes is characters snickering about the word underwear. And no, lampshading and fourth wall breaks are not inherently more clever than any other form of comedy. I’m glad that mindset is finally dying, it really took long enough. I can see why people would get enjoyment out of it, but I for my part really can’t. Maybe if the advertising for this show had been more honest and didn’t try painting it as an action show with “smart comedy”, it would have had a better chance with me.
I remember playing this as a kid and thinking it was really good, but even back then the voice lines were so strange to me. Listening to those audio clips actually triggered some flashbacks in me😂.
I just wanted to say I have been enjoying your videos a lot! As an elder fan of the series I spent a long time being dismissive of the Sonic games that came after the Genesis. It was easy to buy into the idea that the series' best days were behind it. Your videos have really helped me gain a fresh perspective on the series and I've had a blast exploring some of the games I hadn't gotten around to trying yet (I'm currently really enjoying Advance 3!) Keep up the good work!
Sonic Boom had the potential to be a very unique and interesting new take on Sonic. It's just so sad to see how it turned out. Being a Sonic fan during the Boom era was a miserable experience.
There’s something melancholy about the credits of this game show off concept art and the like that was made for it. It’s like the devs were trying to tell the player something along the lines of, “Look at all of these ideas we had, we actually cared about this project as much as the final game may say otherwise.”
After watching this video, I'm reminded of so much of why I haven't touched this game in seven years. Even back when I had no issue with something like Lost World 3DS, I just felt like RoL was a massive slog and I basically had to force myself to finish it so that it wouldn't constantly be in the back of my mind playing Smash 4.
Rise of Lyric was not designed to be run on Nintendo's Wii U Console and it shows with the dropping frame rates. The engine that the game was built on was not designed for Wii U Standard Games and Big Red Button weren't aware of Sega's deal with Nintendo so they were screwed massively! That is one of the reasons why Sonic Boom failed massively
Honestly the only things I think people remember about this series was the show and the 3DS games. The show cause while not making bank, was still pretty well received, mostly cause it was funny and had one of the better portrayals of Amy's character, while still sticking to the things that made her character her character bit toning down parts that people didn't receive well. And people remember the 3DS games(though not as much) cause there was more than one of them, which was quite the surprise
I loved the show too, I loved the characters and the writing. Too bad the games failed, it ruined the entire spin-off of Sonic Boom. I feel like Boom had soooo much potential and it could have been a really cool spin-off series
To me, ROL shares a lot with the Crash games Mind Over Mutant and Crash Of The Titans. They're meant for a very different audience and switch the usual format to a more battling-focused one. Only difference is that ROL has numerous parts of the game where it falls apart, like in the speed sections. If only this wasn't on the Wii U. It runs much better on Cemu tho.
The game playing better on Cemu only works because it's on an emulator and can capitalize on the better hardware your PC might have compared to the Wii U. (plus the not so secret factor that emulation devs are blatantly have a bias towards Nintendo consoles as you can see in the quality of them compared to the Playstation/Xbox/Sega Emus)
I remember as a Kid, I was excited for Sonic Boom because it had been too long since we had a Sonic game where you can play as Tails, Knuckles or Amy. I got the game, played through it and for some reason stopped and told myself "If SomecallmeJohnny says it's bad than I'm in denial". And when hia review came out, I finished this game and traded it in and it made me upset that we just can't have a Fun Sonic game anymore
I was also hyped to play as other characters again. I spent the entire game as Sonic because mashing spindash was the only way to move with any decent pace.
That was the one big reason I considered getting this game despite its hefty price tag, but I did want to see a bit more of what it was about first and looked up some no-commentary walkthrough of it. The writing really turned me off, but then I saw Shadow and just noped out of there. Like, there had been no previous indication that Shadow would be in this AU thing and the fact they just threw him in there with no explanation like he was Metal Sonic or something really rubbed tween me the wrong way. Not much later, the reviews came rolling in.
This is probably the only Sonic game i've ever played where I was so bored in the first few minutes I just took it back and it was not only a rental but a day one rental at that. Honestly, I just feel bad for BRB in all this since i'd like to think that, while this game wasn't guaranteed to be great, they definitely could've put out something that was at least okay if they had been able to stick with the original plan. I remember back when I was on Sonic Stadium and Stephen Frost would regularly pop into the thread for the game to dissuade fears or give us some insight into how things were and I can only imagine how the poor guy felt after the mass backlash the game got.
A few comments to add 1. You didn’t talk much about the coop but as someone that originally completed the game in COOP, it definitely makes the game much more tolerable. There’s a faster pace due to puzzles you’d originally split up in are done synchronously. You also get through combat much faster. 2. The combat was originally much more in-depth but was removed because it couldn’t run on the Wii U port. You were originally going to be able to level up combat trees with rings. 3. There’s a 4 player multiplayer mode that I don’t see mentioned in this video. 4. In the video it was mentioned this was the only Wii U title using cry engine. EA has stated Crysis 3 was successfully ported to the Wii U but they decided to not release it due to poor Wii U sales. I’m curious how much truth there was to their comment.
It’s been almost a decade since I’ve played this game with coop (It’s been years since I’ve played this game in general) so correct me if I’m wrong but I remember this game CHUGGING even more than the single player did oddly enough I don’t remember the 4 player extra mode until you brought it up.
There were 8 years between 06 and Rise of Lyric, and now that another 8 years have passed what does Sega do? They release the reveal trailer for Frontiers that looks like it was made overnight by an intern, then insults the fans for calling this fact out. I played Rise of Lyric with my siblings in 2016 and we just had a good time playing a Sonic game together making fun of the atrocious writing. Nintendo goes to extreme lengths to protect their IPs from overall negative perception, just look how long it was before they tried their hand at a second animated film for example.
@@rouge939 I tried posting an article but UA-cam apparently doesn’t allow that, so you’re going to have to google it. But people most people were critical of the reveal trailer and Sega’s response was “You don’t understand” Again I tried posting the source but am unable to.
I think it should be pointed out that SEGA isn't a games developer like Nintendo. And that's never more obvious than when it involves Sonic. Sonic used to print money, the higher ups at SEGA didn't understand why Sonic printed money, they just knew he did. So they would force Sonic out, even when he wasn't ready, because "it makes money." Every time Sonic flops, they don't see it as a "We fucked up, we shouldn't have rushed this out", they see it as "They fucked up, they can't get the money printing machine to print money." Honestly, they just need to sell the Sonic IP. Give it to Microsoft, that'll have the best chances of giving us decent Sonic games. Give him to Nintendo and every fangame ever gets shut down instantly. So long SRB2. Goodbye P06.
The last good game we got was the two version of Sonic lost world (3ds version seems better to me). Giving it to other people is useless if these people don't understand Sonic and the other characters (like the Meta era did). At least, Ian Flynn (who really understand them well and gave a better role to many badly used characters in Sonic IDW like Silver or Zavok) will work on the scenario of Sonic frontiers; and more precisely the dialogues.
J's Reviews, I love your content; have been a fan for a few years now. I really hope you don't let the numbers go to your head. The first 20ish minutes of your output the past year or so have been self-fallatio-ish with most of the video content being about how good you are now as apposed to them: we see that, long time viewers see that, new vewiers will see that; as an artist grows, their previous works will feel amateurish to them, that is a given; we can parsh that ourselves and appreciate your growth as a creator without you boost pad'ing it out for us every video. I mean no offense, I have just been watching for the past 2+ years and silently hoping you would move past your past. I both feel and don't feel a comment like this is necessary, as you have reduced the legnth of the self-retrospective, but it still takes up a good share of the video. Ypur current output is great, but this video could have been reduced by ~3 minutes and no new viewer would have lost any substance. As a returning viewer I appreciate the self reflection, to a point, but you have a large chunk of each video reserved to remarks of how far you've come as a reviewer; we know, we have been here, we will continue to be here. Please leave the admiration of your advancements to us, and not yourself.
It's a shame though because there was really a lot they could've done with sonic boom. Seeing the TV show, it's very evident that this was Pontiac and Graffs element.
I find it really weird that this game is supposed to be a prequel to a tv show but literally almost everyone that was in this game doesn’t show up at all in the series
Its terrifying how similar this game's development was to 06. Bold vision, lots of talent, massive crunch, mass firings, better prototypes being developed but never released, and of course the missed potential. Its saddening that people pin the blame on BRB, Sonic Team, or even SEGA of America when it seems like SEGA of Japan is the villian in all of this.
People are like that. They will always settle for blaming people who are not to blame. As is the case with Takashi Iizuka who is blamed for all the bad things in the franchise even though Iizuka really cares about Sonic.
Very true, honestly it seems like Sega of America/Their PR Team or whatever are the only ones trying to rebuild Sonic's reputation, like it genuinely seems like Sega of Japan or atleast whoever is in charge of a lot of bad decisions they've made simply don't care about how Sonic is seen by general audiences, which I mean makes sense since the games sales come mostly from kids (or more accurately their parents) but still, letting your franchise run itself into the ground with under-developed projects literally can't be good for it, even if the sales aren't being affected right now, I can see that changing 20 years from now when the kids who grew up with these rushed games have their own kids, and know from their childhood to avoid the Sonic Franchise, cuz to me it seems like a big reason Sonic is still doing as well as it is (besides the Movies which definitely helped) are because of parents who grew up with the Genesis/Adventure Era games buying the new games for their kids, but like i said there's no way their current method of guaranteeing sales is sustainable at all, idk tho, maybe I'm completely off-base and their sales will be the same no matter how bad their reputation gets, but I kinda doubt that considering I've heard the 06 and Rise of Lyric (deservingly of course) didn't sell too well, idk it just makes me wonder what the people in charge of the brand prioritize, cuz at this point I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that they deliberately try to have train-wrecks cuz it gives the franchise more attention than a polished game or POSITIVE press
That's why thank goodness Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Prime & Sonic IDW comic are the responsibles of cleaning the mess Sonic Boom gave to SEGA and the Sonic franchise in general.
Not only that, Sonic IDW gave a better role to Silver, Blaze, Metal Sonic (who wasn't been impressive anymore after Sonic heroes) and even the zetis: a prove that these characters can be good if they are written well. In my mind, if Shadow or Metal Sonic had appeared the first time in the meta era, they would have had the same treatment than the zetis and Infinite.
@@jaretco6423 yeah did you hear that Iizuka saved the game sega wanted it to release on 2021 but he begged them to delay to improve the quality of the game which is an insane feat looking at what sega has done to sonic team in 2006 and big red button in 2014 I just hope sonic frontiers is good with minor glitches even if the pop-in is there as long as the game is critically acclaimed (above 70) then I think we are fine and they will be able to continue this formula only problem is that this game is releasing a day before gow ragnarok which might make the sales go down or up depending on how good both games are.
@@jaretco6423 hmm yeah maybe although imo I would call the part of unleashed that resembles frontiers is cyberspace it's like werehog people didn't enjoy werehog and from what we are seeing cyberspace is shaping up to be the worst part of the game but and this is a big but the cyberspace stages are not a big part of frontiers unlike unleashed the islands are a big part of the game which are basically the equivalent of daytime stages in unleashed in how good they are
@@jaretco6423 well yeah but there are people that will still say werehog is better than cyberspace stages which is okay to have an opinion but it's not a fact imo
This was definitely the one Sonic game that I was never too excited to get my hands on as right from the start I had this feeling that something was off with it, from its announcement and reveal of art style and character designs, to how different the gameplay sounded when discussed in previews compared to previous Sonic games, and more. Prior to Sonic Boom, I did buy almost all Sonic games on Nintendo's consoles and for the PS3 after the release of Sonic 06, with Sonic Generations being the Sonic game I loved the most. Sonic Boom was the first time I was not interested in getting the new Sonic video game at launch, and my skepticism ended up being mega warranted.
No joke. I brought this game when it was new and the game was so bad it crashed my Wii U hard drive. I'm not kidding, I lost all my data and my Splatoon 1 level rank. I don't think I've ever played the game again as I'm afraid it will crash my hard drive again.
That’s also the biggest problem with the sonic fan base they have to learn to stop caring what other think or say about them or the series. If you are a fan of something you don’t have to feel the need to defend or justify it to people who don’t feel the same way just enjoy what your like express what you don’t like and just idk move on
@@pugman9672 I absolutely agree with the idea of liking what u like but I think Sonic has had a history of more mediocre/bad than good games. Like what u like but just because u like something doesn't mean u should be blind to its faults/issues
Bro… I haven’t seen ALL of your videos, but the last time I think I saw you on camera was in your DC Animated Universe retrospective, and you look GOOD my guy!!! MAJOR glow up! Just know that it hasn’t gone unnoticed.
when i hear people debating whether rise of lyric or 06 is the worse game, i always joke that rise of lyric doesn't even have a good soundtrack to defend, but it's kinda true: 06 had memorable moments that people still look back on pretty fondly (silver and mephiles as characters, team dark's dynamic, shadow roundhouse kicking silver in the head, again, THE MUSIC, etc) but as someone who has admittedly never played rise of lyric, it doesn't seem to have much of anything in comparison
Very approperiate you spend more time in the review talking about the behind the scenes stuff then the actual game. Observing Sonic Boom as a phenemenon is more fascinating then playing the actual games, that's for sure. (And watching the TV show in my case, altough I know a lot of people disagree there)
Pretty much. Unleashed is the first game to get rid of proper continuity, which actually turns a lot of "Sonic lore is inconsistent and sux"-discussions into a joke because obviously GUN isn't going to do their job if they aren't part of the storyline anymore.
The settings we have usually fit less with Sonic than him in a world of humans, the new characters being rejected YoGabbagabba characters or a nothing mystery villain don't help that
@@lpfan4491 I was planning to make a mini fan animation movie that remakes shadows origins by incorporating only the good aspects of all his game apparenced then adds my own spin on it basically if the games and their stories weren’t rushed and written better I’ll have it transition to the modern day
The Boom Tv Show was easily the best thing for me in the years between Lost World and the first Sonic Movie. It was yes a comedy but it was actually funny and while I don't like these interpretations of the characters in favor of the main series or other shows, I found these version charming. The show is a sitcom I won't deny but it's a funny one with the second season having some great new ideas most especially a version of Vector who was actually kinda cool despite not having the other chaotics. Not only that as many say a better idea of forces plot than forces but I digress. I loved that show and the stuff it did and it not getting a third season made me very sad.Still good review! I am amazed by your impression of the game audio even if some of the lines sounded like you were doing a impression of the terrible second voice of Peter in the Real Ghost Busters and that did make me laugh so thanks for that.
As much as everyone (myself included) bashes the Boom games, they at the very least did a few things right, with most important one being Sonic wasn't the ONLY playable character and having the other characters have their own unique style of playing.
When the game grumps started they're let's play I was floored at how bad it was. All I could think was how could the let this happen? They learned nothing from Sonic 06.
I highly agree with this video. Sonic Boom and Lost World was my last straw. I tried playing more of his games but Sonic Lost World was what Ultimately killed the series for me. I just couldn't do it anymore.
I find it really concerning that J's hasn't bothered to actually dig into the script for these last Sonic games he's been reviewing. Truly life draining experiences.
I was the same way when this came out. Lost World killed my hope in the series and boom right out of the gate looked even worse. My parents got me a copy of it for Christmas but I’ve still never put it in my Wii U to this very day, there was just no reason to do so /:
I remember playing the multiplayer once with my little cousin and we got to an Eggman boss fight but not normally. At some point prior in the level, I accidentally somehow went out of bounds and changed my gravity and was flying sideways through the level. Eventually, I reached a cutscene trigger and the boss started. Now, the game resumed with Amy still standing horizontally falling sideways until eventually the game snapped me and my cousins character back in bounds. Now, we had a huge Eggman mech boss chasing us during a different section of the level. It was the funniest and most nonsensical shit I’ve seen from a Sonic game before. Neither my cousin or I actually liked the game, we just spent a few hours laughing at how broken and stupid the game was. Good times :)
One of SEGA'S BIGGEST problems, especially when it comes to Sonic, is that even as a company they seem so divided and never work well together and there's mega mismanagement. If you look back with the history with even just Sonic, you'll notice. It goes back to Sonic 2 & CD, they split off to make 2 different sequels, I think Then 06 and Secret Rings when they could've had all teams working on 06. Rise of Lyric, no one gave a shit? I COULD go on but Sega doesn't seem to work well sometimes.
The Wii U was underpowered, but it technically was more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3. It just couldn't hold a candle to a PS4 or Xbox One. It definitely didn't have enough RAM so some things took longer to load. I think that might have been what you meant.
Honestly this game was visibly such a developmental disaster that I have to give props to the CryEngine and Nintendo devs who helped BigRedButton move it to the Wii U at the last second in the first place, otherwise I suspect this game would've just been straightup cancelled (which tbf would have been a better thing for Sonic's brand but could've spelt doom for BRB themselves and while people would have lost their jobs either way I think it's better off mitigated like this). SEGA really has no idea how to release a game. You can STILL see that with Mania (multiple tiers of pointless preorder bonuses), Forces (key story beats were put in prequel comics and left unadvertised), and even today with Frontiers (making the SAME MISTAKE as with Forces; "hey let's put these key story beats in a separate media like comics and separate animations, surely everyone will watch these even though they're not IN the game"). Even when the games are good (Mania is an example and I suspect Frontiers will at least have good dialogue courtesy of comic writer and series veteran Ian Flynn), the corporates at SEGA feel like they always desperately want more money instead of letting the games be the full experience they used to be. The exclusivity deal with Nintendo was made purely because "hey Sonic sold well on these consoles", not suspecting that Nintendo themselves can still fail (I feel like if anything Nintendo should've requested a different game to be put on the Wii U; or altered the deal to 2 games; but the fact that they helped make the game's release at least possible after hearing BRB's plea for help on the Wii U hardware is still commendable).
I feel this game started the "real" dark age of Sonic. We got a couple of good games like Sonic Colors and Generations that were an indication that maybe there was a way out, but in the end we were proven wrong by Lost World and this atrocity. It just led down a trend of mediocre Sonic games through the 2010s except Sonic Mania.
So, er...what exactly? Boom Fire and Ice was actually successful considering it was the dying breath of the subseries and besides that, only Mania, Forces and TSR even released after Boom in the remaining years of the 2010s.
Sonic Boom was not much, but the sarcastic joke-laden nature of the show produced enough laughs that I didn't personally mind the duds. Cheap and cyclical, yes, but stuff like nearly Knuckles says, "I don't think they'll accept 'gotta go fast' as a condition", the fanfic parody and Orbot and Cubot in general still cuts me up. Eggman was not a respectable villain, but he sure was funny. That is the sole exposure I've had with Sonic Boom, and I very much inteed to keep it that way. Though now I do wonder what could have been if they didn't have the exclusivity contract. Would we essentially have gotten the same games, just less buggy?
Gameplay animation Is also the greatest saving grace this game has. It’s not much but it ain’t just the story stuff. Also, again. At least Fire & Ice had a delay to polish the quality.
The best way to describe Sonic Boom as a game and the tv series, is easily forgettable. That’s the worst thing a game and a tv series can be; forgettable.
Sega should bring back several elements from previous Sonic games. Examples like Adventure style gameplay, multiple playable characters, less jokes, hub worlds, chao garden, and impactful story telling. Things I missed in old 3D Sonic game.
SEGA's horrid shittiness towards their developers is perfectly presented here- not telling Big Red Button the game was for Wii U and then essentially forcing them to get it to work on a console that literally should not have been able to even boot it. Big Red Button has now resigned to their fate of VR and mobile games. What a fantastic publisher SEGA is!
I do remember, even before the game's release, Sega straight-up admitting that they never intended for Sonic Boom to be a _replacement_ for Modern Sonic. If anything, Rise of Lyric is pretty much just a crappy licensed game made to tie in to the Sonic Boom TV series, with most people agreeing that the TV series is the best thing to come out of the Sonic Boom branch of the franchise.
As RadicalSoda best put it during his review of Sonic Colors Ultimate, SEGA is an acronym for this: Shittily Engineered Games Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!
11:30 LOL, you haven't played Xenoblade 3, great game, but my god were the quote just terrible with how repetitive they were, they needed like 3x the voice lines to mix it up. I know Sena is the girl with the gal and I know for a fact that Lans needs something meatier.
Thinking about it now, so many didn't like the werehog's combat in Unleashed... (and I can see why if it's the PS2/Wii version), but this makes unleashed look like god of war by comparison in terms of combat... I still don't get how a lot think 06 is worse than rise of lyric cause honestly, rise of lyric played just as bad, while being almost entirely boring.
Man I felt just like J I fell out of love with Sonic after Rise of Lyric i didn't play it until 2019 but seeing the gameplay and cutscenes back in 2014 of how broken and buggy it was I just couldn't believe that Sega made a rushed product that looks and runs terribly. I went into the Sonic depression and just like J went on to other franchises I missed out on as a kid.
The Sonic Boom TV Series is really Underrated and was the only Good thing to come out of this Mess. The Show didn't get all that Good Rating (I'm sure it's because the Show wasn't Marketed very well) and because of that Cartoon Network Pushed it to Boomerang and Aired it's Second Season their so it Could Die. But as a Show I think it's the best Sonic Cartoon and has lots of funny meta jokes that still gets me.
@@sezunemizuhana3870 There are a few episodes that surprised me in actually being enjoyable and feeling like something the characters would do, like the episode where Amy adopts a damaged buzzbomber and takes care of it, but yeah outside of the 10 clips everyone spread online there wasn't that many memorable scenes imo, and the general mood of the show really felt like I'm supposed to be half-watching while doing something else. The reliance on jokes that are supposed to be funny because "meta" doesn't really help when the only punchline is that it's meta and doesn't really do anything with it. Wow, Shadow's super edgy like the internet thinks he is. That's the joke. Yawn. I remember someone made a video a while back on how other characters could fit in the Boom universe. Admittedly it was a well done video and I agree with all of their ideas but there was one that made me realize just how cynical and low-energy this series felt: Cream. Their idea was to make an episode where Cream is introduced as some girl scout helping out everyone in town and the main gang thinking she *must* have a hidden agenda because everyone in town's an asshole. But after many attempts it turns out that she's genuine and the episode ends with a life lesson that nice people exist. Let me reiterate, the Boom universe is so cynical that it could make an episode about how there exist people who will help others out of the goodness of their heart and it wouldn't feel out of place. That's quite depressing.
I think the biggest causality of this all is Chris Senn. Man finally gets the chance to come back and make a sonic game after the hell that was X-Treme’s development and Sega continues to fuck him in the ass to the point he quits game design all together
@@londonjackson8986 yeah pretty much and the first sonic movie design... well at least the comics and lego dimensions and mania and mania adventures were fun to go through
I bought Rise of Lyric earlier this year and felt like I was in a coma for the brief time I played it. As much as I hate Sonic 1 GBA or Secret Rings or Free Riders, this is my least favorite in the series now.
This video pretty describes what I was feeling at the time. This game made me question if I was to old and drop the series. I did not get back into it until the reveal First Sonic movie poster.
also if im going to be honest. frontiers might be sonics last chance of redemption cause in terms of mainstream 3d sonic games. sonic forces was the last one and frontiers is the annivaersary game
What else stings about Rise of Lyric is that some people think it was made by Sonic Team. I got in a conversation with a guy in my old day job and he was all "Sonic Team can't make good games anymore; look at Rise of Lyric.". I told him it was made entirely in the US and then he paused and said "We f**ked up."
That was awkward.
But yeah Rise of Lyric overall was so bad it’s generic. At least with Sonic 06 & Forces have some good ideas with bad executions but with the former it has a solid balance of good and bad.
Sonic Boom overall feels like a waste of time and nothing out of it.
Why is that the most depressing story I've read relating to Sonic?
No it was still Saga on that one. Go which What Happened Sonic Boom. Because boy did they really miss up. To the point I say now on you need to have it in paper when making a sonic game for saga.
@@OneYuDBZSlayers The game was made by Sanzaru in the US dude, the same developer who made Sly 4. Sonic Team did not make Sonic Boom. And Sega is a publishing company, not a development team.
EDIT: Sorry I’m stupid and was going off memory. Big Red Button made Rise of Lyric, Sanzaru made Shattered Crystal.
@@HeWhoDwells no it was big red button.
Fun fact, the game was originally going to be completely different with more focus on Sonic's origins and the history of the world. Then SEGA went behind Big Red Button's back and made the series without telling them, then told them to scrap their work and make their game based on the series in only a short amount of time before its scheduled release.
Sega pulled a Dio on Big Red Button
Sega why?
Is that why the show has barely anything to do with the game? I know that even the 3Ds game’s story was handled by the show’s staff, so the tone is different there.
I remember reading an article around the show’s airing from Sonic stadium that did some research on this. They found that both the show and BRB teams had no communication with each other. The only evidence to suggest this though is the inconsistencies between the game and show’s plot. Eggman also stole Lyrics button and used it as a gauntlet at the end of ROL, but in the show, it’s just a prop on it’s wrist that does nothing.
@@Fractorification It's depressing, I know
@@playerback7722 first time? that's classic Sega
I just feel bad for Big Red Button. They had no chance.
Yup
And yet they had to take the brunt of the blast that Sega didn't want to take with RoL.
SEGA kept making the situation worst
@@LasagaMan my nipples hurt
There career ended faster than it began
I can't believe that Big Red Button gave Knuckles his ability to fly back in this game
I can buy Tails flying thanks to he's double(you know) but gliding seems weird and overkill for knuckles. Always struck me as triple jump type!
@@erikbihari3625 he means a glitch
@@gamercentral2417 shut up meg
@@gamercentral2417I heard he's jump can trigger a game breaking one, until they patched it up.
@@erikbihari3625 yea that’s what I’m talking about
Legend has it that Roger Craig Smith still has trauma from having to say "bounce pad" in the studio over and over...
Roger Craig Smith knew Rise of Lyric was his 06 while recording his performance.
He was so traumatized, that on a stream he kept repeating "bounce pad" over and over and over...
Oh lord
Poor Roger I hope for Frontiers to be his Redemption Arc
Jason Griffith: First Time?
I think the only reason people got upset about the boom designs is because people thought it was going to be a permanent change. But when they announced this was a alternative element people got more accepting of the designs
Yeah I was definitely one of those people pretty vocal about how I didn't like the designs. I didnt go to like Chris Chan levels or anything, but once I found out about it being an alternate universe or side thing, I got more accepting
I was indifferent to em back then and still am now, minus Knuckles (he just looks way too humanoid) none of them change the character designs to make a difference
You forgot to mention it being supremely drastic like changing the proportions of their eyes,hands feet and heads.
@@junglezone7323 Chris who?
There were rumors that Sonic Boom actually was going to be the new regular Sonic but after RoL crashed and burned, these plans were swiftly cancelled. Though I’m pretty sure those mostly stemmed from that one interview where they referred to Modern Sonic as “Legacy Sonic” as well as the fact that there was basically no Sonic content that didn’t involve Boom in some way between the release of Lost World and Mania, with Mania being something SEGA couldn’t even have planned for ahead of the time.
Sonic Boom has a seriously interesting development story. I'd recommend the 'Sonic Boom - What Happened' video by Matt Mcmuscles for anyone interested. He does a really good job dissection the games history
There is also SplashDash's "The Missed Potential of Sonic Boom" and his 1 hour long video about Concept Art, Beta Footage and other stuff.
@@theophilecaceres5855 awesome, thanks for the heads up
Here's another recommendation: "A Sonic Boom Retrospective" made by Palette, he goes into painful details about it's original concept, atrocious development, and more
Yep.i saw this
Another MattMcMuscles Man of culture he’s covered a lot of Sonic Games because of Sega constantly mishandling the franchise, its like them walking on a tightrope while juggling eggs lmao.
Honestly, for me this was the game that made me think 06 wasn’t as bad as people thought. Both games have glitches, but at least 06 glitches you could use a lot of them to your advantage. Also, some of the glitches in 06 to me are pretty fun and hilarious. I also agree with you Sega should stop trying to rush games out because of this one of the biggest problems of current Sonic games
Even the one glitch in Rise of Lyric you could've used to your advantage, the Knuckles infinite jump glitch, was patched out.
If I heard things correctly frontiers is gonna change all this, thanks to takashi izuka!(and based on what I heard:m.ua-cam.com/video/lixTJBSJTzY/v-deo.html! )That's saying a lot!
When i played through 06 i nevered encounter any of the glitches i saw on youtube its either there something wrong with everyone else copy of 06 or im just better at the game then most people.
Yeah when i played 06 the only three glitches i ran into were shadows buggy glitch, the knuckles wall glitch but i quickly figured out how to do it, and sonic hitting things in mach speed sections
I had little issues with glitches in 06, some I deliberately tried to trigger but couldn't get to work, they exist but the game ain't unplayable
I don’t know if it’s just me, but that era of Sonic from 2013-2019 felt like an era of depression. I got into the fanbase in 2021, but from what I’ve learned, all Sonic had even going for them was it’s self-deprecated jokes about how much they suck. It felt like the bullied kid that wanted to be accepted by everyone else that bullied them by making fun of themselves, in hopes that they’d stop. But in end, all it showed to the bullies was that even the kid knows they suck and know that they are worthless.
Thank god for the Sonic movie being a massive success.
Me too
the Big Sad era, just a sonic seemed to be making a comeback with colors and generations everything just crashed downfor years
Couldn’t agree with you more.
If you ask me that was the downfall that Sonic didn’t deserve.
late comment but take it from a Fan whose been there since the 90s, Your right the 1 2 punch of Shadow and 06 brought the house down then after colors there was just this sorta 'rebranding' of Make sonic a punchline outside of winners like the Movies and Mania. Im glad they finally started to clean up the act with the movies being good.
Another late comment. Personally, I feel like the “meta era” as J called it didn’t really begin until the second season of the Sonic Boom cartoon. And really that whole era just suffered from what I christened “Deadpool Syndrome,” named after the character from Marvel Comics (X-Men specifically) of the same name. Following the release of the first Deadpool movie in 2016, which was universally acclaimed by critics, audiences, and X-Men fans alike, many people in the industry wanted to capitalize on post-ironic humor (which is the type of humor that was used in the movie, and should be looked into further); with Sonic being no different. However, the problem was that post-ironic humor works for Deadpool; but doesn’t work for Sonic. The reason? Simple. *That’s what Deadpool is as a character.* Deadpool is supposed to be a parody of the character Deathstroke from DC Comics; as such, it makes sense for a character like Deadpool to make fourth-wall breaking quips. But Sonic just isn’t that type of character where that can work and it feels authentic.
All jokes aside, it's such a shame that because of this game's existence we never got a 3rd season for the Sonic Boom TV show, regardless as to what people think of it, it was easily the best thing to come out of this spinoff franchise, RIP Sonic Boom.
We didn’t get a third season of the TV show because nobody was watching the damn thing. It had abysmal ratings when it aired, it was lucky to even get a season 2. Rise of Lyric had nothing to do with its cancellation.
Don't know movie knuckles doesn't look bad with more bulk.
I heard Fire and Ice was pretty good too but yes I agree the tv show is heavily underrated. Dave the Intern was one of my favorite characters in the show and I would like to see him come back some day maybe
@@rainpooper7088Boom was essentially having fired at from both sides.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios most of the fans of it probably only watched clips on UA-cam and Twitter instead of actually tuning in so that probably put a dent in the potential of season 3
This was the game that showed SEGA learned literally nothing from 06’s failure.
The fact that they let another rushed, buggy game to come out after 06 despite trying so hard to “not create another 06” shows they thought the reason that game bombed critically was because of the story and adventure formula and not because it was rushed which is why they were abandoning all of this slowly by the time Colors came out.
What pisses me off even more is that they didn’t learn anything from THIS GAME EITHER. Looking at the development of Colors Ultimate and Origins, it shows they still let rushed and buggy Sonic games come out and will continue to do so in the future. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Frontiers launched like this despite all the good stuff we’ve seen so far. SEGA treats their own damn mascot so horribly yet treats series such as Yakuza and Persona with the respect they deserve.
Yep.Sega is like a snake eating its own tail. They never learn from their mistakes and if they do they overcorrect.
Well maybe sonic team did because lost world and forces barely had glitches that ruined the experience but the games are just bad because the gameplay is not good enough but sega of japan? no they learned nothing but shit .
I am not very well-versed on the topic, but I’ve been binging videos the past few days and it seems like there’s a big disconnect (?) between SEGA of America and SEGA of Japan in terms of Sonic. I guess Sonic is only popular in the west so Sonic media has a lower budget and is treated a lot worse. (Don’t quote me on this lol If I’m wrong, please someone correct me.)
I bought ultimate and liked it but that was after it was patched
@@zigzagintrusion There is no Sega of America anymore. Back in the 90's the US branch was independent from SoJ, but they have been reintegrated back into SoJ I think in the 2000's.
Sonic always been more popular in the west. For some reason Sonic never cracked the japanese market. All of Sega's IPs are very successful in Japan, and Sega is a domestic market centric company. Because their main source of revenue is gambling machines, they put more effort in games that appeal to japanese players. That leaves Sonic out.
Also, compared to their other sources of revenue, Sonic is one of the lowest in the list. Even the msot well received Sonic games failed to bring much profits. Since the PS2 era there's not much a place for platformers aside from Mario and some indies. Yakuza and Persona appeal more to the AAA masses than a mascot platformer.
Also, Yakuza is good PR for the actual Yazuka, which Sega's parent company Sammy has ties to.
As much as I despise the Boom games, the tv show helped introduce my little cousins to Sonic and now we all bond over the series together. Also, the Boom comics by Archie were super fun and very underappreciated imo
It's crazy how Sega was both dumb enough to screw up like this again and just how devastating this game was to Sega and Big Red Button. I remember being there after this game lead to alot of lay offs at Sega and effectively ended the yearly Sonic game tradition.
While it's terribly painful, better for the Franchise. You just can't do amazing quality games in one year these days.
@@SuperSaiyanD48 While that certainly is true...for Sonic? You could give them 4 years and it still wouldn't be good. Ask Forces.
Pontac and Graff
@@markandrew287 2 years working on a new engine (Hedgehog Engine 2) and 1 - 2 on the game.
Forces basically was made within 2 years in actuality.
Yeah the Mid 2010s was just Mobile Games iirc
I think what keeps me around in the sonic series is that, although It has many setbacks, the games never feel like they're callously thrown out to appease the masses. All these failures feel like someone had a dream and a vision. I like those dreams and visions, and I wish better for them.
@@nmr7203 Sega didn't care, but the developers did.
@@nmr7203 but the thing is, the rest of the failures (except forces) had some kinda vision
@@Steamsoapdish forces, to me, felt like they were trying to do something good but got really insecure about their new ideas.
As was the case as far back as the Saturn, SEGA's worst enemy is always itself.
it dates back to the Mega Drive. Sonic 2 and CD fighting each other from both divisions and Sonic 3 not being complete all for a stupid McDonalds toy
@@hwanniggles187
>Sonic 3 not being complete all for a stupid McDonald’s Toy
Sonic 06 be damned…
@@brandonwilliams6119 jokes aside, its why its split into Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles.
Sega of USA vs Sega of Japan
@@hwanniggles187 Sega got so lucky Sonic 3&K was a great game and a commercial success, they never learned from that.
I can't help but imagine the combat is what critics thought the Werehog was at the time except *actually* that bad
The sonic boom tv show may have been gold, but the games not so much. At least not at first
Amen
Am I the only person that hates Sonic Boom TV series and always cringes when watches an episode?
@@modmaker7617 It’s an acquired taste I never acquired. I like some out of context jokes though.
@@thevioletbee5879
TBH some out-of-context jokes are funny but in-context they fall flat for me.
@@modmaker7617
I feel like this show’s popularity mostly stems from people watching clips out of context on UA-cam. If you watch the episodes on full, you’ll find that the writing has absolutely no competence in naturally leading characters and events to their punchlines. It just beats you over the head with whatever the writers thought was funny regardless of whether or not it makes sense or fits the character in question. Amy in particular has like six different personalities between which she rotates depending on what they want the joke with her to be.
The jokes take priority over everything and it’s clearly meant to be watched with your brain turned off, which would be fine if the show didn’t have this smug energy to it. Like, I saw the interviews before it premiered, the creators were legit convinced they were creating a “clever comedy” with this freaking Sonic cartoon.
You don’t get to feel clever about jabs at performative feminism when your Boys vs Girls episode is the least self aware episode in the whole show. Using cliches in a comedic setting is not the same as parodying them.
You don’t get to call your show “smart comedy” when most of your jokes only have one layer. And one of those jokes is characters snickering about the word underwear.
And no, lampshading and fourth wall breaks are not inherently more clever than any other form of comedy. I’m glad that mindset is finally dying, it really took long enough.
I can see why people would get enjoyment out of it, but I for my part really can’t. Maybe if the advertising for this show had been more honest and didn’t try painting it as an action show with “smart comedy”, it would have had a better chance with me.
I remember playing this as a kid and thinking it was really good, but even back then the voice lines were so strange to me. Listening to those audio clips actually triggered some flashbacks in me😂.
11:06 despite this review being serious i laughed hard on that part where you mimiced the voices😂
I just wanted to say I have been enjoying your videos a lot! As an elder fan of the series I spent a long time being dismissive of the Sonic games that came after the Genesis. It was easy to buy into the idea that the series' best days were behind it. Your videos have really helped me gain a fresh perspective on the series and I've had a blast exploring some of the games I hadn't gotten around to trying yet (I'm currently really enjoying Advance 3!)
Keep up the good work!
I remember when the biggest issue, according to a rather infamous person, was Sonic's arms.
Buy me a sandwich
I really wanna know who said it. I think the Sonic Boom show made fun of that bit of “criticism” at some points.
@@brawler5760 Have you ever heard about Chris Chan?
@@brawler5760 Trust me you really don't wanna know the whole story
@@HordikaNate3821 I do
Sonic Boom had the potential to be a very unique and interesting new take on Sonic. It's just so sad to see how it turned out. Being a Sonic fan during the Boom era was a miserable experience.
There’s something melancholy about the credits of this game show off concept art and the like that was made for it. It’s like the devs were trying to tell the player something along the lines of, “Look at all of these ideas we had, we actually cared about this project as much as the final game may say otherwise.”
Despite this games failure, I really do hope SEGA considers making a game in this universe again. I just love the Boom characters and it's world.
A better combat system like Unleashed and Frontiers
@@playerback7722 fr
nobody hates the sonic franchise more than Sega themselves...
ok, maybe Arin Hanson
After watching this video, I'm reminded of so much of why I haven't touched this game in seven years. Even back when I had no issue with something like Lost World 3DS, I just felt like RoL was a massive slog and I basically had to force myself to finish it so that it wouldn't constantly be in the back of my mind playing Smash 4.
Rise of Lyric was not designed to be run on Nintendo's Wii U Console and it shows with the dropping frame rates. The engine that the game was built on was not designed for Wii U Standard Games and Big Red Button weren't aware of Sega's deal with Nintendo so they were screwed massively! That is one of the reasons why Sonic Boom failed massively
Honestly the only things I think people remember about this series was the show and the 3DS games. The show cause while not making bank, was still pretty well received, mostly cause it was funny and had one of the better portrayals of Amy's character, while still sticking to the things that made her character her character bit toning down parts that people didn't receive well.
And people remember the 3DS games(though not as much) cause there was more than one of them, which was quite the surprise
I think the Sonic Boom TV show was goddamn amazing. Makes me audibly laugh every single episode. It was great
I loved the show too, I loved the characters and the writing. Too bad the games failed, it ruined the entire spin-off of Sonic Boom. I feel like Boom had soooo much potential and it could have been a really cool spin-off series
The story of Big Red Button is quite sad. Sega worked them to the bone and stripped so much of their creativity.
To me, ROL shares a lot with the Crash games Mind Over Mutant and Crash Of The Titans. They're meant for a very different audience and switch the usual format to a more battling-focused one. Only difference is that ROL has numerous parts of the game where it falls apart, like in the speed sections. If only this wasn't on the Wii U. It runs much better on Cemu tho.
The game playing better on Cemu only works because it's on an emulator and can capitalize on the better hardware your PC might have compared to the Wii U. (plus the not so secret factor that emulation devs are blatantly have a bias towards Nintendo consoles as you can see in the quality of them compared to the Playstation/Xbox/Sega Emus)
@@LasagaMan pie
What's funny is that Crash had unfinished games, but was still fun, and MOM and Titans were finished games.
@@estebangutierrez160 and how funny it was
@@LasagaMan Who cares? It's great when emulators are further into development.
Matt McMuscels did a What happend video covering the production of Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric basically Sega sabotaged the game.
I remember as a Kid, I was excited for Sonic Boom because it had been too long since we had a Sonic game where you can play as Tails, Knuckles or Amy.
I got the game, played through it and for some reason stopped and told myself "If SomecallmeJohnny says it's bad than I'm in denial".
And when hia review came out, I finished this game and traded it in and it made me upset that we just can't have a Fun Sonic game anymore
I was also hyped to play as other characters again.
I spent the entire game as Sonic because mashing spindash was the only way to move with any decent pace.
That was the one big reason I considered getting this game despite its hefty price tag, but I did want to see a bit more of what it was about first and looked up some no-commentary walkthrough of it. The writing really turned me off, but then I saw Shadow and just noped out of there. Like, there had been no previous indication that Shadow would be in this AU thing and the fact they just threw him in there with no explanation like he was Metal Sonic or something really rubbed tween me the wrong way. Not much later, the reviews came rolling in.
This is probably the only Sonic game i've ever played where I was so bored in the first few minutes I just took it back and it was not only a rental but a day one rental at that. Honestly, I just feel bad for BRB in all this since i'd like to think that, while this game wasn't guaranteed to be great, they definitely could've put out something that was at least okay if they had been able to stick with the original plan. I remember back when I was on Sonic Stadium and Stephen Frost would regularly pop into the thread for the game to dissuade fears or give us some insight into how things were and I can only imagine how the poor guy felt after the mass backlash the game got.
Wonder what the Sonic Boom(CD) comment section was like before this game came out
Mom wants you
A few comments to add
1. You didn’t talk much about the coop but as someone that originally completed the game in COOP, it definitely makes the game much more tolerable. There’s a faster pace due to puzzles you’d originally split up in are done synchronously. You also get through combat much faster.
2. The combat was originally much more in-depth but was removed because it couldn’t run on the Wii U port. You were originally going to be able to level up combat trees with rings.
3. There’s a 4 player multiplayer mode that I don’t see mentioned in this video.
4. In the video it was mentioned this was the only Wii U title using cry engine. EA has stated Crysis 3 was successfully ported to the Wii U but they decided to not release it due to poor Wii U sales. I’m curious how much truth there was to their comment.
It’s been almost a decade since I’ve played this game with coop (It’s been years since I’ve played this game in general) so correct me if I’m wrong but I remember this game CHUGGING even more than the single player did oddly enough I don’t remember the 4 player extra mode until you brought it up.
You are KILLING it with your fitness! J v James to the intro of this video is an amazing transformation! Congrats!
I was going to say, guy is an inspiration for me too
And I bet most of it came from free riders.
There were 8 years between 06 and Rise of Lyric, and now that another 8 years have passed what does Sega do?
They release the reveal trailer for Frontiers that looks like it was made overnight by an intern, then insults the fans for calling this fact out.
I played Rise of Lyric with my siblings in 2016 and we just had a good time playing a Sonic game together making fun of the atrocious writing.
Nintendo goes to extreme lengths to protect their IPs from overall negative perception, just look how long it was before they tried their hand at a second animated film for example.
You’re making that up. When did they “insult” the fans over Frontiers?
@@rouge939
I tried posting an article but UA-cam apparently doesn’t allow that, so you’re going to have to google it.
But people most people were critical of the reveal trailer and Sega’s response was “You don’t understand”
Again I tried posting the source but am unable to.
19:10 Wait a minute... Sonic Frontiers is going to have this exact type of "puzzle!" :P
atleast it's a bit more _difficult_ on Frontiers, and you actually have to think which path will actually fill out all the squares
I think it should be pointed out that SEGA isn't a games developer like Nintendo. And that's never more obvious than when it involves Sonic.
Sonic used to print money, the higher ups at SEGA didn't understand why Sonic printed money, they just knew he did. So they would force Sonic out, even when he wasn't ready, because "it makes money." Every time Sonic flops, they don't see it as a "We fucked up, we shouldn't have rushed this out", they see it as "They fucked up, they can't get the money printing machine to print money."
Honestly, they just need to sell the Sonic IP. Give it to Microsoft, that'll have the best chances of giving us decent Sonic games.
Give him to Nintendo and every fangame ever gets shut down instantly. So long SRB2. Goodbye P06.
The last good game we got was the two version of Sonic lost world (3ds version seems better to me). Giving it to other people is useless if these people don't understand Sonic and the other characters (like the Meta era did). At least, Ian Flynn (who really understand them well and gave a better role to many badly used characters in Sonic IDW like Silver or Zavok) will work on the scenario of Sonic frontiers; and more precisely the dialogues.
J's Reviews, I love your content; have been a fan for a few years now. I really hope you don't let the numbers go to your head. The first 20ish minutes of your output the past year or so have been self-fallatio-ish with most of the video content being about how good you are now as apposed to them: we see that, long time viewers see that, new vewiers will see that; as an artist grows, their previous works will feel amateurish to them, that is a given; we can parsh that ourselves and appreciate your growth as a creator without you boost pad'ing it out for us every video. I mean no offense, I have just been watching for the past 2+ years and silently hoping you would move past your past. I both feel and don't feel a comment like this is necessary, as you have reduced the legnth of the self-retrospective, but it still takes up a good share of the video. Ypur current output is great, but this video could have been reduced by ~3 minutes and no new viewer would have lost any substance. As a returning viewer I appreciate the self reflection, to a point, but you have a large chunk of each video reserved to remarks of how far you've come as a reviewer; we know, we have been here, we will continue to be here. Please leave the admiration of your advancements to us, and not yourself.
I think SEGA missed the memo where you reboot your franchise *after* it's dead. You don't kill it with the reboot itself.
Easy mistake to make.
It's a shame though because there was really a lot they could've done with sonic boom. Seeing the TV show, it's very evident that this was Pontiac and Graffs element.
I find it really weird that this game is supposed to be a prequel to a tv show but literally almost everyone that was in this game doesn’t show up at all in the series
This is the only game I ever owned where I was eager to get rid of it ASAP and have never regretted trading it in.
I still remember nearly getting Shattered Crystal. Thank goodness I avoided it
Its terrifying how similar this game's development was to 06. Bold vision, lots of talent, massive crunch, mass firings, better prototypes being developed but never released, and of course the missed potential. Its saddening that people pin the blame on BRB, Sonic Team, or even SEGA of America when it seems like SEGA of Japan is the villian in all of this.
People are like that. They will always settle for blaming people who are not to blame. As is the case with Takashi Iizuka who is blamed for all the bad things in the franchise even though Iizuka really cares about Sonic.
@@sebastianmartinez5963 i moreso blame sega then iizuka himself though he's not above criticism sega is more often then not the villain for alot of it
Very true, honestly it seems like Sega of America/Their PR Team or whatever are the only ones trying to rebuild Sonic's reputation, like it genuinely seems like Sega of Japan or atleast whoever is in charge of a lot of bad decisions they've made simply don't care about how Sonic is seen by general audiences, which I mean makes sense since the games sales come mostly from kids (or more accurately their parents) but still, letting your franchise run itself into the ground with under-developed projects literally can't be good for it, even if the sales aren't being affected right now, I can see that changing 20 years from now when the kids who grew up with these rushed games have their own kids, and know from their childhood to avoid the Sonic Franchise, cuz to me it seems like a big reason Sonic is still doing as well as it is (besides the Movies which definitely helped) are because of parents who grew up with the Genesis/Adventure Era games buying the new games for their kids, but like i said there's no way their current method of guaranteeing sales is sustainable at all, idk tho, maybe I'm completely off-base and their sales will be the same no matter how bad their reputation gets, but I kinda doubt that considering I've heard the 06 and Rise of Lyric (deservingly of course) didn't sell too well, idk it just makes me wonder what the people in charge of the brand prioritize, cuz at this point I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that they deliberately try to have train-wrecks cuz it gives the franchise more attention than a polished game or POSITIVE press
@@theleonpasta733606 did sell at least a million copies, which allowed the franchise to rebound with Unleashed, Colors, and Generations.
Great job for actually playing through, finishing, and reviewing this mess. Respect. ✌
Charriii5 is about to have his turn at Boom as part of his Sonic Marathon Streams until Frontiers comes out.
That's why thank goodness Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Prime & Sonic IDW comic are the responsibles of cleaning the mess Sonic Boom gave to SEGA and the Sonic franchise in general.
Not only that, Sonic IDW gave a better role to Silver, Blaze, Metal Sonic (who wasn't been impressive anymore after Sonic heroes) and even the zetis: a prove that these characters can be good if they are written well. In my mind, if Shadow or Metal Sonic had appeared the first time in the meta era, they would have had the same treatment than the zetis and Infinite.
Being a Sonic fan in 2014 to 2019 must've been agonizing.
This game just makes me feel sad for Big Red Button as Sega fucked them over so hard
@@jaretco6423 yeah did you hear that Iizuka saved the game sega wanted it to release on 2021 but he begged them to delay to improve the quality of the game which is an insane feat looking at what sega has done to sonic team in 2006 and big red button in 2014 I just hope sonic frontiers is good with minor glitches even if the pop-in is there as long as the game is critically acclaimed (above 70) then I think we are fine and they will be able to continue this formula only problem is that this game is releasing a day before gow ragnarok which might make the sales go down or up depending on how good both games are.
@@jaretco6423 hmm yeah maybe although imo I would call the part of unleashed that resembles frontiers is cyberspace it's like werehog people didn't enjoy werehog and from what we are seeing cyberspace is shaping up to be the worst part of the game but and this is a big but the cyberspace stages are not a big part of frontiers unlike unleashed the islands are a big part of the game which are basically the equivalent of daytime stages in unleashed in how good they are
@@jaretco6423 well yeah but there are people that will still say werehog is better than cyberspace stages which is okay to have an opinion but it's not a fact imo
This was definitely the one Sonic game that I was never too excited to get my hands on as right from the start I had this feeling that something was off with it, from its announcement and reveal of art style and character designs, to how different the gameplay sounded when discussed in previews compared to previous Sonic games, and more.
Prior to Sonic Boom, I did buy almost all Sonic games on Nintendo's consoles and for the PS3 after the release of Sonic 06, with Sonic Generations being the Sonic game I loved the most. Sonic Boom was the first time I was not interested in getting the new Sonic video game at launch, and my skepticism ended up being mega warranted.
I loved Sonic Boom on Cartoon Network when I was 6 and I still have a keychain of Boom Sonic I’m still looking for.
No joke. I brought this game when it was new and the game was so bad it crashed my Wii U hard drive. I'm not kidding, I lost all my data and my Splatoon 1 level rank. I don't think I've ever played the game again as I'm afraid it will crash my hard drive again.
Woah, ramps. LOOK SONIC, WE CAN USE THESE RAMPS, AS RAMPS.
Why the hell hasn't yt been recommending me your vids? I literally just watched the sonic lost world vid like a month ago and I'm subbed
Because UA-cam is shit
Sonic fans have probably had one of the toughest franchises to defend & like
That’s also the biggest problem with the sonic fan base they have to learn to stop caring what other think or say about them or the series. If you are a fan of something you don’t have to feel the need to defend or justify it to people who don’t feel the same way just enjoy what your like express what you don’t like and just idk move on
@@pugman9672 I absolutely agree with the idea of liking what u like but I think Sonic has had a history of more mediocre/bad than good games. Like what u like but just because u like something doesn't mean u should be blind to its faults/issues
Bro… I haven’t seen ALL of your videos, but the last time I think I saw you on camera was in your DC Animated Universe retrospective, and you look GOOD my guy!!! MAJOR glow up! Just know that it hasn’t gone unnoticed.
when i hear people debating whether rise of lyric or 06 is the worse game, i always joke that rise of lyric doesn't even have a good soundtrack to defend, but it's kinda true: 06 had memorable moments that people still look back on pretty fondly (silver and mephiles as characters, team dark's dynamic, shadow roundhouse kicking silver in the head, again, THE MUSIC, etc) but as someone who has admittedly never played rise of lyric, it doesn't seem to have much of anything in comparison
06's music is kind of a high bar to pass though lol
Very approperiate you spend more time in the review talking about the behind the scenes stuff then the actual game.
Observing Sonic Boom as a phenemenon is more fascinating then playing the actual games, that's for sure.
(And watching the TV show in my case, altough I know a lot of people disagree there)
World building of the Sonic Universe died with Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. Every game onward has felt like compilation of 1-off stories.
Pretty much. Unleashed is the first game to get rid of proper continuity, which actually turns a lot of "Sonic lore is inconsistent and sux"-discussions into a joke because obviously GUN isn't going to do their job if they aren't part of the storyline anymore.
The settings we have usually fit less with Sonic than him in a world of humans, the new characters being rejected YoGabbagabba characters or a nothing mystery villain don't help that
@@lpfan4491 I was planning to make a mini fan animation movie that remakes shadows origins by incorporating only the good aspects of all his game apparenced then adds my own spin on it basically if the games and their stories weren’t rushed and written better I’ll have it transition to the modern day
The Boom Tv Show was easily the best thing for me in the years between Lost World and the first Sonic Movie. It was yes a comedy but it was actually funny and while I don't like these interpretations of the characters in favor of the main series or other shows, I found these version charming. The show is a sitcom I won't deny but it's a funny one with the second season having some great new ideas most especially a version of Vector who was actually kinda cool despite not having the other chaotics. Not only that as many say a better idea of forces plot than forces but I digress. I loved that show and the stuff it did and it not getting a third season made me very sad.Still good review! I am amazed by your impression of the game audio even if some of the lines sounded like you were doing a impression of the terrible second voice of Peter in the Real Ghost Busters and that did make me laugh so thanks for that.
When reviewing a game that has combat, J will use DMC as a prime example 😂
Can I say J, you look healthy and I'm proud that you have taken care of yourself very well!
As much as everyone (myself included) bashes the Boom games, they at the very least did a few things right, with most important one being Sonic wasn't the ONLY playable character and having the other characters have their own unique style of playing.
Don't forget Eggman not being the final boss considering it got repetitive
When the game grumps started they're let's play I was floored at how bad it was. All I could think was how could the let this happen? They learned nothing from Sonic 06.
Were their reactions enjoyable?
Rise of Lyric didn't kill Sonic, *I* killed Sonic. *With my bare hands.*
I highly agree with this video. Sonic Boom and Lost World was my last straw. I tried playing more of his games but Sonic Lost World was what Ultimately killed the series for me. I just couldn't do it anymore.
Did you ever play Mania?
I find it really concerning that J's hasn't bothered to actually dig into the script for these last Sonic games he's been reviewing. Truly life draining experiences.
Can’t believe the 06 review was nearly 2 years ago, feels like it was yesterday
I was the same way when this came out. Lost World killed my hope in the series and boom right out of the gate looked even worse. My parents got me a copy of it for Christmas but I’ve still never put it in my Wii U to this very day, there was just no reason to do so /:
I remember playing the multiplayer once with my little cousin and we got to an Eggman boss fight but not normally. At some point prior in the level, I accidentally somehow went out of bounds and changed my gravity and was flying sideways through the level. Eventually, I reached a cutscene trigger and the boss started. Now, the game resumed with Amy still standing horizontally falling sideways until eventually the game snapped me and my cousins character back in bounds. Now, we had a huge Eggman mech boss chasing us during a different section of the level. It was the funniest and most nonsensical shit I’ve seen from a Sonic game before.
Neither my cousin or I actually liked the game, we just spent a few hours laughing at how broken and stupid the game was.
Good times :)
One of SEGA'S BIGGEST problems, especially when it comes to Sonic, is that even as a company they seem so divided and never work well together and there's mega mismanagement.
If you look back with the history with even just Sonic, you'll notice.
It goes back to Sonic 2 & CD, they split off to make 2 different sequels, I think
Then 06 and Secret Rings when they could've had all teams working on 06.
Rise of Lyric, no one gave a shit?
I COULD go on but Sega doesn't seem to work well sometimes.
Well it's not like we can go back in time to fix those problems. But even then it could change the Sonic franchise in was you can't imagine.
If I'm not mistaken, Adventure 2 (2001) was also handled by a mostly american team, with supervision from Iizuka and the other japanese designers.
The Wii U was underpowered, but it technically was more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3. It just couldn't hold a candle to a PS4 or Xbox One. It definitely didn't have enough RAM so some things took longer to load. I think that might have been what you meant.
Honestly this game was visibly such a developmental disaster that I have to give props to the CryEngine and Nintendo devs who helped BigRedButton move it to the Wii U at the last second in the first place, otherwise I suspect this game would've just been straightup cancelled (which tbf would have been a better thing for Sonic's brand but could've spelt doom for BRB themselves and while people would have lost their jobs either way I think it's better off mitigated like this).
SEGA really has no idea how to release a game. You can STILL see that with Mania (multiple tiers of pointless preorder bonuses), Forces (key story beats were put in prequel comics and left unadvertised), and even today with Frontiers (making the SAME MISTAKE as with Forces; "hey let's put these key story beats in a separate media like comics and separate animations, surely everyone will watch these even though they're not IN the game").
Even when the games are good (Mania is an example and I suspect Frontiers will at least have good dialogue courtesy of comic writer and series veteran Ian Flynn), the corporates at SEGA feel like they always desperately want more money instead of letting the games be the full experience they used to be. The exclusivity deal with Nintendo was made purely because "hey Sonic sold well on these consoles", not suspecting that Nintendo themselves can still fail (I feel like if anything Nintendo should've requested a different game to be put on the Wii U; or altered the deal to 2 games; but the fact that they helped make the game's release at least possible after hearing BRB's plea for help on the Wii U hardware is still commendable).
I feel this game started the "real" dark age of Sonic. We got a couple of good games like Sonic Colors and Generations that were an indication that maybe there was a way out, but in the end we were proven wrong by Lost World and this atrocity. It just led down a trend of mediocre Sonic games through the 2010s except Sonic Mania.
So, er...what exactly? Boom Fire and Ice was actually successful considering it was the dying breath of the subseries and besides that, only Mania, Forces and TSR even released after Boom in the remaining years of the 2010s.
Sonic Boom was not much, but the sarcastic joke-laden nature of the show produced enough laughs that I didn't personally mind the duds. Cheap and cyclical, yes, but stuff like nearly Knuckles says, "I don't think they'll accept 'gotta go fast' as a condition", the fanfic parody and Orbot and Cubot in general still cuts me up. Eggman was not a respectable villain, but he sure was funny.
That is the sole exposure I've had with Sonic Boom, and I very much inteed to keep it that way. Though now I do wonder what could have been if they didn't have the exclusivity contract. Would we essentially have gotten the same games, just less buggy?
Gameplay animation Is also the greatest saving grace this game has. It’s not much but it ain’t just the story stuff. Also, again. At least Fire & Ice had a delay to polish the quality.
Fire & Ice is so undernoticed and underrated gem. It's my favorite official 2D Sonic.
I remember as a kid getting the game on release along side a wii U for my birthday, and being absolutely devastated. fun times (not really)😅
The best way to describe Sonic Boom as a game and the tv series, is easily forgettable. That’s the worst thing a game and a tv series can be; forgettable.
the fact that this game is nostalgic/retro makes me feel incredibily old
Sega should bring back several elements from previous Sonic games. Examples like Adventure style gameplay, multiple playable characters, less jokes, hub worlds, chao garden, and impactful story telling. Things I missed in old 3D Sonic game.
Looks like Sonic Frontiers will at least halfway fulfill those wishes.
SEGA's horrid shittiness towards their developers is perfectly presented here- not telling Big Red Button the game was for Wii U and then essentially forcing them to get it to work on a console that literally should not have been able to even boot it.
Big Red Button has now resigned to their fate of VR and mobile games. What a fantastic publisher SEGA is!
3:49 Is that King K???
I do remember, even before the game's release, Sega straight-up admitting that they never intended for Sonic Boom to be a _replacement_ for Modern Sonic. If anything, Rise of Lyric is pretty much just a crappy licensed game made to tie in to the Sonic Boom TV series, with most people agreeing that the TV series is the best thing to come out of the Sonic Boom branch of the franchise.
Idk, Sonic Dash 2 is pretty good.
As RadicalSoda best put it during his review of Sonic Colors Ultimate, SEGA is an acronym for this:
Shittily
Engineered
Games
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!
I need to remember this acronym 😂
11:30 LOL, you haven't played Xenoblade 3, great game, but my god were the quote just terrible with how repetitive they were, they needed like 3x the voice lines to mix it up. I know Sena is the girl with the gal and I know for a fact that Lans needs something meatier.
Thinking about it now, so many didn't like the werehog's combat in Unleashed... (and I can see why if it's the PS2/Wii version), but this makes unleashed look like god of war by comparison in terms of combat...
I still don't get how a lot think 06 is worse than rise of lyric cause honestly, rise of lyric played just as bad, while being almost entirely boring.
Everybody Gangsta til the Megaman X7 e tier music starts playing
Man I felt just like J I fell out of love with Sonic after Rise of Lyric i didn't play it until 2019 but seeing the gameplay and cutscenes back in 2014 of how broken and buggy it was I just couldn't believe that Sega made a rushed product that looks and runs terribly. I went into the Sonic depression and just like J went on to other franchises I missed out on as a kid.
"[Sonic Boom] must have really pissed him off!"
The Sonic Boom TV Series is really Underrated and was the only Good thing to come out of this Mess. The Show didn't get all that Good Rating (I'm sure it's because the Show wasn't Marketed very well) and because of that Cartoon Network Pushed it to Boomerang and Aired it's Second Season their so it Could Die. But as a Show I think it's the best Sonic Cartoon and has lots of funny meta jokes that still gets me.
Really? I think Sonic Boom Tv show is super overrated. It's boring, cynical and everything I don't want in Sonic.
@@sezunemizuhana3870 So you like the Disgusting 4kids Dub of Sonic X Better?
@@marguya4643 Japanese dub exists
@@sezunemizuhana3870
There are a few episodes that surprised me in actually being enjoyable and feeling like something the characters would do, like the episode where Amy adopts a damaged buzzbomber and takes care of it, but yeah outside of the 10 clips everyone spread online there wasn't that many memorable scenes imo, and the general mood of the show really felt like I'm supposed to be half-watching while doing something else. The reliance on jokes that are supposed to be funny because "meta" doesn't really help when the only punchline is that it's meta and doesn't really do anything with it. Wow, Shadow's super edgy like the internet thinks he is. That's the joke. Yawn.
I remember someone made a video a while back on how other characters could fit in the Boom universe. Admittedly it was a well done video and I agree with all of their ideas but there was one that made me realize just how cynical and low-energy this series felt: Cream. Their idea was to make an episode where Cream is introduced as some girl scout helping out everyone in town and the main gang thinking she *must* have a hidden agenda because everyone in town's an asshole. But after many attempts it turns out that she's genuine and the episode ends with a life lesson that nice people exist.
Let me reiterate, the Boom universe is so cynical that it could make an episode about how there exist people who will help others out of the goodness of their heart and it wouldn't feel out of place. That's quite depressing.
Sonic X has terrible Amy Sonic Boom doesn't
I think the biggest causality of this all is Chris Senn. Man finally gets the chance to come back and make a sonic game after the hell that was X-Treme’s development and Sega continues to fuck him in the ass to the point he quits game design all together
2013-2019 was a darker age for Sonic then 2005-2009.
Prove me wrong.
No Sonic game came out in 2019
@@mcnuggwtscreations Uhmm I think he is talking about the first sonic movie design and team sonic racing
@@londonjackson8986 yeah pretty much and the first sonic movie design...
well at least the comics and lego dimensions and mania and mania adventures were fun to go through
I bought Rise of Lyric earlier this year and felt like I was in a coma for the brief time I played it. As much as I hate Sonic 1 GBA or Secret Rings or Free Riders, this is my least favorite in the series now.
If I had a dollar for every time this game was brought up... Lol
This video pretty describes what I was feeling at the time. This game made me question if I was to old and drop the series. I did not get back into it until the reveal First Sonic movie poster.
Man, this was about 10 years ago. Dang.
also if im going to be honest. frontiers might be sonics last chance of redemption cause in terms of mainstream 3d sonic games. sonic forces was the last one and frontiers is the annivaersary game
10:30 The lines don’t have any vocal effects or processing on them, they’re, at least from what i’m hearing. It’s odd