This was super interesting! I'd love a standalone review of the Leica, as it seems really interesting, and looks like it handles quite differently than the lumix cameras menu and button wise
So did I, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. What we like is 100% subjective, and even if it wasn't, how colors appear to us depends mostly on how good or bad the quality of our monitor is, and how good (or bad) our monitors are calibrated, and what the ambient light falling on our monitors is, and even then, it depends on the age and health of our eyes, and other characteristics or our eyes.
@@marin_real_estate_photography and we must also not forget youtube compression, the export format, color grade or codec when exported etc. Straight out of camera could be very different from what we see here on youtube
I've been a Leica M shooter for decades. I currently own a M-P Type 240 which I love. Over two years ago I bought a Lumix S1R. Being a working photographer for over 50 years after learning all the innumerable options on the Lumix, I still am astonished at it's capabilities and image quality. Same 47MP sensor as the "comparative" Leica and a fraction of the cost.
Well yes, it does actually, just not with these two cameras. When I use the same lenses between my Leica CL & Lumix G9 there is a stark difference, with the Leica colors being much more pleasing. The greens are especially nicer on the Leica, With the G9 looking a bit garish & oversaturated with nature shots especially.
I bought a mint second hand SL about 4 years ago for £1800, it’s still great, best built thing of any type I’ve ever owned. The magic for me is the astonishing view finder which helps create better shots.
I worked with Panasonic for several years as consultant / sponsored photographer. One of things I learned is that with Leica a lot of the color and character comes from the glass. This is why if you use a Micro 4/3 Leica lens on a Panasonic body the color is different. In this case it’s related to the firmware in lens but with analog Leica lenses it’s all about the glass. I think if you got a Leica lens and did the test again it would be quite interesting. Thanks for the video ❤
How is the lens firmware used to affect the look of the pictures? Would it be something like specific corrections for vignetting etc. designed to give the 'Leica look'? I have owned the Panasonic Lecia 12 - 60 MFT lens before and I did really like the rendering. Plus samples I've seen from the other 2 lenses in the same f/2.8 - 4 range have similarly nice colour and rendering. Definitely makes up for MFT's lesser capability for shallow depth of field. I literally just got myself an S5IIX which I'll be playing with shortly. I found it interesting to discover that one of the lenses I got with it - Panasonic's 50mm f/1.8 - is also the basis for a Lecia version of the lens. From what I've found, Lecia's version is branded as f2.0 to be consist with their other lenses. The optical design is Panasonic's but the lens is apparently assembled by Lecia. I do wonder if they then use their own coatings - and as you suggested, firmware settings - to make it a unique Leica lens. The price does jump up a huge amount from the Panasonic version - around 5x - so a buyer would certainly hope they are getting something for that extra cost.
@ I don’t know exactly what happens between the Panasonic made Leica and Panasonic body. Thats a well kept secret. But when I worked with Panasonic I was told by some top people that there is a difference when using Leica glass on Panasonic bodies and I could see the difference in every lens I used (I had them all). I think what might happens is that the Panasonic made Leica lens unlocks a slightly different version of each color look in camera or perhaps a some type of digital filter thats applied to everything captured. I think the closest look at this in action is with the GX85 which has a color profile called Monochrome L. I dont know if all of this works the same with Panasonics full-frame cameras because I left them a year before the L-Alliance was announced
This was really insightful and I was surprised - I thought there would be a more pronounced - thanks for the unbiased comparisons, look forward to the video results!
Judging from this video the skin tones are the main difference but would love to see another video with the higher megapixel SL2 or SL3 and a Leica lens.
The SL2 looks the same as the Panasonic Lumix S1R. The SL3 uses another Sony higher resolution sensor so the image characteristics will be very similar to other Leica and Lumix cameras. These Leica and Lumix cameras share the same Sony sensors. The Leica's even borrow the Lumix autofocus system. They're practically the same cameras only the SL3 has a higher resolution sensor from the same line up of sensors.
Thanks so much for this! I could be wrong but I was find it's the glass that gives the most character sometimes. Would be interesting to see a new Leica lens on both bodies and see if they look and respond the same.
I'm a camera reseller and this is the thing I always say to customers. There are great and expensive cameras. But this won't say these cameras are for them. Would you start driving with a F1 ? The Leica and the x100 are some of these cameras not for everyone but the influences of UA-cam are so great they believe it's THE best camera that never takes bad pictures... Thanks for your channel I've discovered today. Sorry for my bad English.
I've known this since I bought my Panasonic LX100 in 2014. I couldn't believe how good it was in pictures and video and to this day it has (to me) the best color science straight out of camera of any brand.
I don't base my buying preference on color profiles, film simulations, etc. You buy the hardware that feels good for you-- then you tweak the colors to your liking. If you do photography long enough, you'll discover that the whole shooting experience is most important.
In the age of widespread RAW use, I understand Leica is more about the experience with the camera. And I for one hugely appreciate it being built in Europe. Imagine a UK-built camera!
Exactly, if you willing to support the company approach to production in EU and appreciation for photography in general, please go ahead. I think both are very important!
I hope this helps people realize what they really love is M Mount glass or Leica glass for L mount. Yes, some exclusive color profiles are really nice on Leica bodies. And DNG is amazing, but sometimes not 5x the money more amazing than a used S5
I remembered the SL2S looked different than the S5 esp when using adapted M lenses. The other was corner smearing. At least when I tested, the SL2S was noticeably sharper in the corners for adapted M glass. A niche use case for sure, but Perhaps give M glass a try?
Colour wise since Leica and Panasonic share technology there are only a few subtle differences. Leica files will be slightly more open in the mids. The Leica files will have the saturation slightly lower. Finally the Leica files have a few points less magenta shift to them. The Leica sensor has a thinner filter stack so it behaves better with older M lenses and shows very slightly more acutance with the absolute best glass (APO Summicrons). But this lens won't show that. You paid for Grerman wages for assembly, the industrial design, menus and build quality. Plus the red dot.
Lenses make differences not bodies. I tried my SL lens on S5iix and it showed the same Leica magic. But if you want to maximize your lens, you’d better get a body from the same manufacturer. Hope you would test with some SL lenses next time to both bodies. IBIS of S5iix and OIS of SL2490 seemed not work properly to me.
I own the S1, S5, S5II, S5IIX and SL2-S. I've done the same tests and I can echo your results that the photos are 99% the same. I think it's the same if you look at quartz watches. They are pretty much all very accurate (if you spend more than $50) as watches to tell time, and it's all about the brand, culture, build quality, material and how much you want to pay.
Are they really?? I guess not, you can`t compare some chinese quartz to a seiko or citizen. Btw, it`s a lumix vs Leica comparison and the difference is clear.
only buy a casio watch, be like Gates, same watch since high school.... or not, be like me, a cabinet full of swiss watches cause I love them. Same as I love, in general, all fine things. Loro Piana, Chanel, and Dior clothes, Saville Row suits (Huntsman anyone?). Vintage Ferrari. Lots of nice things that have equivalent low cost items if you only care about function. For me, Leica is worth it, I own 7 Leica lenses, and one Leica camera... I think I am done. I ordered the SL3 but am dissapointed with the performance in video. For video, I am holding out for the new Panny cameras in October!
You mention that for photos they perform the same. I wonder how the SL2-S perform against S5II X in video. Specially for skin tones. Could you help shareingyour insight?
Can we get I Leica lightroom preset to apply Leica colours on s5m2 images in raw post processing. Or even better can we load Leica colour science LUT straight into s5m2?
I have both SL2-S and S5II using SL 24-90, M mount Leica and Voigtlander and Sigma 45 and 35mm lenses. Any combination of body and lenses above produces more then excellent images. Conclusion I come to using above combos in almost twelve months since I got S5II (owning SL2-S for two years). BTW there is a lots of Panasonic tech in Leica, bodies and lenses.
Thank you, I love tests like this, really helps to get over one's own biases when you see it's almost impossible to tell the difference. Although I can see why Leica has its allure, there's so much padding around the image quality discussion that it's great to be taken down to earth with real testing like this. There are only a few camera + lens combos I've ever owned where I can recognize what I shot with, and it's always when I don't remember what camera I used until checking the EXIF data. But ultimately it's very rare that a camera can provide anything unique that's not reproducible by any other system.
I am shooting with my Lumix S1 and a full set of vintage Contax Zeiss lenses, and I am happy as a clam. Although, I have always wanted and still want a Leica M and a few M lenses. One day. Thanks for the great comparison video, very informative.
If you check DXO software last version (7 ?), you will see that there is an option to emulate the color rendering of groups of cameras. Leica and Lumix recent cameras are in the same color profile option... So I think the guys from DxO already known that it was the same color science which was used in both cameras. It is very interesting to check this DxO option, to see which cameras have similar or same color profiles, and at which generation of cameras of a manufacturer they change their color profile.
Those profiles aren’t exactly matching but are pretty close. There is more to color science than just matching hues and approximating tones. There is color phase and color density changes to luma and that stuff is extremely hard to test with color chart comparison matching.
@@jessejayphotography Those colour emphases can easily be reproduced in post. Unless you never shoot anything except jpeg - and even then you can tweak preferences endlessly in camera - the manufacturers look isn't a secret sauce.
UA-cam has compression and other things going on so you could really show us anything and we would not be able to tell anything about colours in a youtube video!
Isn't the Leica color magic only truly in their M series CCD sensors? Like they use Kodak sensors which from what I remember somewhere were modeled after Kodachrome film.
I’ve never used Leica but i was able to spot the slight difference without knowing which is which at the beginning. It’s slightly deeper colors and slightly sharper. So you could say I guess it right. Even the ABC, I chose B. Again, ever so slightly. Is it worth it? Hmmmmm…..
Very interesting! I actually liked the files from the Panny a bit more. But I think the differences are so minor, you'd only see them in direct comparisons. A follow up with Leica glass vs other L-Mount lenses would be quite informative I'd say.
Nice comparison and a rather expected result, no difference with Panasonic glass for medium resolution camera bodies. I would be interested in a comparison of Leica SL2 camera with Panasonic S1R when using the APO Leica glass. Maybe an update also with Leica SL3 and Panasonic S1R II (whenever the later becomes available).
After owning and using a Leica Q (stunning colours and sharpness) and an M240, I bought an SL. I was disappointed with the images and returned it. I’m sure the SL2 and 3 are superb. I bought a Hasselblad X1D2 and find the colours are amazing. I’m really happy with my decision.
Love your video... Thank you! I have the S5 (OG) and a S1R, I am waiting for the S2R (S5R or S1Rm2). I rented a SL2 and compared with my S1R... Leica is Leica... but for work, the s1R is AMAZING... I am considering buying a Q2 or S5ii as I am a photographer. Keep doing what you are doing! You are the only one that I have notification bell!
I have an S5II and I like the colors from it. In your comparison, I thought the B cam had slightly more contrast (or slightly darker shadows) and the reds on the Leica look ever so slightly less saturated than the Lumix but I didn't see much difference other than that.
DAMN! I thought the B cam was the Leica because the colors seemed slightly more saturated with smoother highlights in the first A and B test... I am shookith!
I think the separator comes in when you use the apo lenses, granted you can throw them on an S5. I do still believe colors should be graded by what you can edit out of them , I’d never judge a camera I’m spending more than $3k on without color grading the files
Also I don’t think Leica is for bang fit your buck, i view it similar to designer clothes. No justification will ever be applied to make balenciaga tee worth $750 vs a $20 Uniqlo tee. If you want it you buy it cuz you want it, it’s never really a need with Leica/ designer
Great color science comes when shooting skintones in mixed lighting, bulbs & daylights or neon lights with daylight etc. There you can see the Hue control/quality that Leica has over other brands. And that comes from an ex Leica SL owner who just ordered a Lumix S5iiX to test it out :)
@3:07 I mean there is clearly a difference between the two in skin tone. Look at the lips and the color of the skin under your eyes. Overall skin seems more magenta on the Leica That said they are very close and could easily be edited to match.
Josh, thanks for making this video and I agree with everything you said and will add the following. I’m a Leica M shooter, the M10-R and previously the M240 and digital CL, to be exact. The LUMIX S series of cameras are relatively identical to the Leica S series cameras when it comes to the internal technologies and colour science. There are features in the external hardware and build quality where Leica shines over LUMIX but all in all, these cameras are identical. I owned the original S5, sold it for the S5 II which is definitely a worthy upgrade. Where the comparison you made is not equal is when it comes to autofocus technology. The Leica SL2-S uses contrast based whereas the S5 II has phase detect autofocus. For those who rely on autofocus Leica doesn’t provide this technology yet. You’ll see it in the SL3 and its variants. I’m not an autofocus shooter and I am not a hybrid shooter or videographer so those features don’t really matter much to me. I shoot 90%+ with adapted vintage and M mount lenses. I use them on my LUMIX S5 II, Nikon Zf, Fujifilm X-Pro3, and Leica M10-R. One set of lenses I can use on all my digital mirrorless cameras. The S5 II is a beast of a photography camera and not enough people talk about it as one. LUMIX cameras will continue to get better and not cost an arm and a leg like Leica’s, Sony’s, Canon’s, or Nikon’s with similar features and capabilities.
This is a fascinating comparison. Thank you. I would say that in the portrait comparisons at 3:02, there is a smoother skin rendition and softer contrast from the Leica that offers a more pleasing image. However this is slight and can be corrected in post. The BIG question is about the difference in the filter thickness on the sensor. It is reportedly uniquely thin on the SL range, to allow for the use of M lenses without smearing, especially when using wide lenses. I often hear this mentioned but have never seen a proper comparison. If there is any way you could do a once and for all test with Leica lenses on both the SL2S and S5ii, I think a lot of viewers would find that very interesting. Me included.
Has anyone used the LUMIX S1R with the Leica M mount lenses? I’m curious to know if there is also another mirrorless system that makes these M mount lenses sing? I’ve gone from an MP 240, M11, SL2-S and M10-P - all are great and unique in their own right, but just way too costly, especially with their QC issues as of late.
I have been shooting a Leica M6 for the last 10 years and if you compare it to other film bodies that can take the same lens selection it's the smoothness of the experience that makes the difference. My Leica doesn't get in the way, the rangefinder on it is the best I ever used and it's just a perfect camera to be using for decades to come. It hasn't needed any service and I bought it used, built in 1990! Now that's build quality. Colour science is a funny thing, because in film the "sensor" and the "colour science" is always the same and comes from different manufacturers, Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, etc. It's all about the shooting experience and the lens selection. I personally prefer Zeiss and Voigtländer glass because the rendering has more character, but Leica definitely produces the best lenses out there from an optical viewpoint. I'm not surprised that Panasonic has finally caught up to Leica with colour science. Leica were the absolute best in the game already 10 years ago though. My old Olympus E-PL3 had terrible colours even with lots of light and broke apart beyond ISO 400. Canon 450D, awful reds because of the lack of filtration on it. At the time Leica M9 and later the M240 were already perfect over their entire ISO range👌other manufacturers are only now catching up. With a mirrorless camera going with Lumix makes sense and that's what I did, because the quality coming out of it is comparable. From a user experience stand point Lumix isn't all that great I have to say. The menus are definitely very cryptic and it's quite the learning curve compared to everything I've seen of Leica menus in reviews. And since there are so many options it isn't set it and forget it either, you actually have to use those menus all the time, so it is definitely a consideration. Where Leica really shines is in the rangefinder cameras actually. They're the only ones who still make bodies like that and it has been my preferred focusing system for the last 10 years. If I were to buy a Leica it would definitely be a rangefinder but the massive file sizes of the current models make me think that the M240 is still the sweet spot even though it's 12 years old. They have stood the test of time too, which makes it a reassuring purchase also from a resale value consideration.
I was 100% successfull to tell which ones was Leica and which not. Leica's trademark colors are orange, green and reds. The overall Lumix's colors are more saturated. You might prefer it but I like the Leica look. It's subtle but it's definitely there.
since you know the camera so well maybe you are able to answer this: How can i set the camera that it DOES NOT LOCK THE EXPOSURE AUTOMATICALLY ( AEL LOCK ) when half pressing the shutter button ???? ( in other words how do I DISABLE AEL lock during half press so the camera keeps changing AE !?!?! ) THANKS !
Great review man, I noticed the Leica has a tad bit warmer colors. Also, the lens makes a huge difference. I use the 24-90 and the 90-280 , had sigma glass along with it and noticed the rendering was different. It plays a “huge” but subtle difference in the images. Looking to possibly grab a lumix s5ii or s5iix to be a B-cam for the Leica (or vice versa?) . Thank you for the test and helpful info! Always enjoy your content!
You could tell which one is which by looking at the red color (not saying which one looked better or worse). However, this applies only if you shoot in jpeg, for raw doesn't.
Just cannot understand why ‘judged’ a high end digital camera base only on their Jpeg image files results (such as comparing number of color presets:they are presets not profiles! Any comparison between color shift in extreme exposure settings? What are their usable dynamic range in the real world (not from lab reports)? Batteries lives performances? I am not saying which brand has a better performance but one shouldn’t judge anything without going through it inside out!
if you use leica M on the panasonic l mount you ll get a lot of smearing in the cornerns, specially with wide angle lenses, the glass stack on the sensor is different..
One thing that should be vastly better with the Leica is the EVF, it's supposed to use their own glass lenses for a far better image - how did you experience this difference?
I believe the question should be, which is more accurate at representing the actual colors. To me, the Lumix may have rendered more color, but does that represent the actual color of the scene?
Would love to see a comparison of the Leica SL primes across the same L mount bodies. Then (maybe as a separate video) choose one body and compare one of the Leica primes to other L mount primes of similar focal lengths but at differing price points.
This is something I'd love to test for myself. This video was just showing the sort of images coming out of each camera with the same lens, so almost like a test with a 'control'. Therefore, one could only assume that whatever benefits are introduced by Leica glass could also be the same if you used a Lumix with Leica glass :)
I have an S1 and Sigma 1.4 28mm/40mm . I was using medium and large format film up until recently but I am not at all displeased with the S1 and the lenses are really superb (heavy 40mm tho..) I saw a strip down of the S1 and actually feel its build quality may match Leica, if not aesthetically at least internally it's built very well.
Have SL and S-1 (have had many others), and I'm just a proud dad / weekend warrior hack. Couple of suggestions - first - Shooting with Pana or Sigma L Mount glass - you are shooting with glass far past 24mp sensor - and high grade. I'd be surprised to see much difference, but pop a 200-400 lens on there (non-native) from china - and then look... If you grab some vintage - say any 50mm 1.4 from decades ago - you will begin to see differences in the rendering - even in raw (although less). Side note - and while you are playing with glass from years ago - tracking down character - notice which one works better - and because the handling is so much better - you get more shots... Try it with a nifty fifty, and a 135mm and see what you think... If you really want to see a difference in jpegs - use old M glass... Second - I THINK (IMHO), that the difference between the SL and the S1 is significant, the difference between the S1 and the SL2S really isn't that much different. I would GUESS, the S1RmkII and the SL3 will be even closer... Also note - although few reviewers ever test the Pana glass - their "S" line is of the highest grade (50mm 1.4 vs almost anything out there - its holds its own - and is priced accordingly)... YES, I bought my S1 (as I saw it as a poor man's Lecia) - and I'm tickled pink - its really a powerhouse - EVEN by todays standards (Q2-2024) - but once I procured the SL - the SL is the chosen one - but I shoot 75% vintage. To take it one step further - try shooting B&W - I think the SL shines in this category. All said - would I mortgage away for a current SL3 or Q3 - NO, but I did TRY the SL2S - and in comparison to the SL - I kept the SL and played catch & release on the SL2S - but again - 75% vintage and 25% native... And I have a sony RX1 and several other compacts - so if I take out the S1 or SL - its on purpose, as its NOT an everyday carry, nor very nice unless you are planning on shooting as the main reason for being out...
I agree that as a base most camera sensors seem to producer pretty neutral colour. one thing that I love and detest about my SL2-S is the Monochrome High Contrast Jpegs you mentioned. It produces such pleasing black and white that I never seem to be able to reproduce with the raw files. I shoot DNG+JPEG and almost always fall back on the jpeg for my black and white work.
Lol. I had the same problem a few times using raw + jpeg on my nikon D3500. I'd shoot some images where the jpeg version just came out perfect and I couldn't even match it let alone better it with post processing the raw. My editing skills are a bit better now but I shoot raw only so I don't have that "problem".
@@nicerides9224 yea, its not as simple as a profile I don't think - which is why I imagine you can't access the native camera looks in lightroom. at least most cameras will let you shoot jpeg+raw
I thought that the Leica JPGs looked a bit more saturated, but the RAW looked very similar. On the street photos I did like the slightly more saturated colours better, but the Grey-background-studio-portrait well I didn't like any better... they all had various colour tints in the grey background.
I also noticed the background differences the most. I did find that the S5II and SL2-S looked more alike than any of them did compared to the S1, so that's kinda interesting!
I always thought the Leica SL’s were Panasonics in Leica bodies with Leica menus and some tweaks. I wonder about the rangefinder Leicas, there might be more difference there
Important to note that the SL is different than the M… also Lumix/Panasonic actually work together on the L Mount so the Lumix would naturally be closer to the SL2-S than any other brand.
really? So the L mount is what makes the difference? Since the L Mount alliance includes DJI, Black Magic, GoPro then all those cameras should look the same by your statement. ROTFLMFAO right Skippy
The SL’s sensor is not made specially by Leica as opposed to the M and Q series, just a note to know when comparing colors and explaining the magic of Leica…
Rent a a couple apo-summicron-Sl in your favorite focal length if you want the modern Leica look. I have 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and they work great on the S5ii or sl2-s.
Actually I saw a little bit of difference but it is minimal and it was so close that it only comes to the red bot. Great video tho always wondered but don't have the money to test on a sl
Leica shooter here, recognized the Leica images... The SL2S is amazing, lovely with M lenses as well! Enjoy your SL2S, you made a good choice!
5 місяців тому
Interestingly, the photos from the Lumix seem to have more contrast and are a bit sharper, as in the photos with wall writing. They also look warmer overall.
Great video, and I really see what you are saying. A while ago, I visited a fair where various major brands had their cameras on show, and I could try them all. I tried the defaults of Canon, Nikon and Sony, also some outliers such as the Fujifilm GF 100. And a Lumix S1, and a Leica SL2. If found that picture quality is similar for all major brands, differences appear in lenses and handling. The one thing I learned at this fair is that the one thing the Leica SL-series wins over all these other brands is simplicity in the controls. You just get 8 customizable buttons, and that's it. Every photographer has his own style of handling a camera, the Leica adapts to everyone surprisingly easy. So while these pictures were no different than a Lumix S1, I did overall like the simplicity of Leica's camera. I did however purchase a Panasonic S1 body in the end, because it's controls are second best, at a much lower price point. And it has a tilting display, which the Leica SL3 now also has. I also got a great second-hand Leica Elmarit 24-90 f2.8-4 lens, which is better than awesome. That lens combined with a S1 is the best of both worlds for what I do with photography. Image quality and handling is superb. If Panasonic will ever make a successor to the S1 with phase-detect AF, I would buy it immediately.
Hi Josh, thank you for the interesting video. I have never tried any Leica camera of the SL line nor a full frame camera from Panasonic, so I cannot make any comments on your comparison. But I do own a Leica CL. digital and over the years I used several cameras from different brands. The colours of the jpegs coming out straight of my Leica CL digital are different from any other colours coming out from any other camera I used. I spent a weekend in London recently and used my Leica and my Ricoh GR 3 to take photos. As much as I love my Ricoh, I must say that the Leica produces colours which have a sort of a more vintage and realistic look compared to my Ricoh. Of course, it is just my opinion and my experience. Keep up with the good work you are doing, Manu
I'm considering buying a Leica, but mainly because I heard it handles vintage lenses particularly well. I think 99% of the color science and image quality comes from the lens. Therefore, I would like to try the combination Nikkor Noct 58mm 1.2 with a Leica SL.
@JoshCameron could you put a link for download 2 Images (Leica SL2 vs Lumix SII) in the description? It would be perfect to could compare the 2 images in 100% view. Thanks a lot for all your efforts.
Not surprising since the Leica C-Lux, D-Lux and V-Lux series cameras are all Panasonic made. Both companies work closely together and just announced a new upcoming "L2" project where they will share technologies on upcoming cameras, lenses and more. In fact, Im willing to bet the 47MP sensor in the S1R is the same sensor found in the SL2 and the 24MP BSI sensor in the SL2-S is the same sensor from the S5II. Highly suspect the megapixel counts are the same and the colors are so similar. Im guessing the only difference is the processor being used in the cameras.
Hey Josh, first off all i love the way you explain how these cameras feel and how you explain the over all experience. I was in doubt wich camera to buy recently. The Leica sl2 or lumix s5iix. I picked the lumix. Now, as i shoot mainly stills but thinking having the video features is not a bad thing for the future, it still feels like a mistake... what are your toughts on this please? Luxury problem...😊 Grtz from Belgium to you all. Erwin.
For APS-C I've been rocking the XS20. My favorite Fuji camera. It's taken me away from my S5ii for a bit. However if you simply want the best then always go with the Panasonic. Even my G9 is gold!
I did see an extremely slight difference in skin tone with the Leica comparison shots. But nothing that could not be altered one way or the other in editing to get shots from either camera exactly how you like them. I have wondered how much tech collaboration there is within the L-mount alliance. I own the Sigma fp L, which some call the Japanese Leica, and I LOVE it. I highly recommend getting your hands on one for some testing, but make sure you attach a grip accessory, adding a personal grip that fits your liking is very much a part of the custom experience with this camera.
Curious when converting the the Leica and Panasonic RAW files I assumed you used Adobe Camera Raw either in PS or LR if so which camera profile did you select or just "Adobe Standard"
Watch Next - "Are Leica Lenses Actually Worth It?" : ua-cam.com/video/PaUYvz2u9uc/v-deo.html
This was super interesting! I'd love a standalone review of the Leica, as it seems really interesting, and looks like it handles quite differently than the lumix cameras menu and button wise
The Sl2 is nothing short of being a spectacularly good camera.
I thought the Lumix colours looked better 😂
So did I, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. What we like is 100% subjective, and even if it wasn't, how colors appear to us depends mostly on how good or bad the quality of our monitor is, and how good (or bad) our monitors are calibrated, and what the ambient light falling on our monitors is, and even then, it depends on the age and health of our eyes, and other characteristics or our eyes.
funny , As I prefered the Leica ones .specialty reds and oranges seem a tad more subtle and rue to life . lumix were more " orangy "
@@marin_real_estate_photography and we must also not forget youtube compression, the export format, color grade or codec when exported etc. Straight out of camera could be very different from what we see here on youtube
So did i.
@@MarkaustinHaslerLOL having owned millions of cameras I actually think this 😂
I've been a Leica M shooter for decades. I currently own a M-P Type 240 which I love. Over two years ago I bought a Lumix S1R. Being a working photographer for over 50 years after learning all the innumerable options on the Lumix, I still am astonished at it's capabilities and image quality. Same 47MP sensor as the "comparative" Leica and a fraction of the cost.
How do you like the s1r
Agreed. The S1R would be a 'step up' from the SL2S and found for $1,500 most places. I shoot with two.
So, the red dot doesn't have any impact in color science. Great comparison Josh!
Nothing that would warrant upgrading for - I think the benefits of the Leica come in different areas :) Thank you!
@@JoshCameronplease redo the test with a leica apo sl lens 🙏🤗
@@JoshCameron yes, the glass.
Well yes, it does actually, just not with these two cameras. When I use the same lenses between my Leica CL & Lumix G9 there is a stark difference, with the Leica colors being much more pleasing. The greens are especially nicer on the Leica, With the G9 looking a bit garish & oversaturated with nature shots especially.
@@kfx13except you can put the Leica lenses on the LUMIX camera also
I bought a mint second hand SL about 4 years ago for £1800, it’s still great, best built thing of any type I’ve ever owned. The magic for me is the astonishing view finder which helps create better shots.
I worked with Panasonic for several years as consultant / sponsored photographer. One of things I learned is that with Leica a lot of the color and character comes from the glass. This is why if you use a Micro 4/3 Leica lens on a Panasonic body the color is different. In this case it’s related to the firmware in lens but with analog Leica lenses it’s all about the glass. I think if you got a Leica lens and did the test again it would be quite interesting. Thanks for the video ❤
How is the lens firmware used to affect the look of the pictures? Would it be something like specific corrections for vignetting etc. designed to give the 'Leica look'?
I have owned the Panasonic Lecia 12 - 60 MFT lens before and I did really like the rendering. Plus samples I've seen from the other 2 lenses in the same f/2.8 - 4 range have similarly nice colour and rendering. Definitely makes up for MFT's lesser capability for shallow depth of field.
I literally just got myself an S5IIX which I'll be playing with shortly. I found it interesting to discover that one of the lenses I got with it - Panasonic's 50mm f/1.8 - is also the basis for a Lecia version of the lens. From what I've found, Lecia's version is branded as f2.0 to be consist with their other lenses. The optical design is Panasonic's but the lens is apparently assembled by Lecia. I do wonder if they then use their own coatings - and as you suggested, firmware settings - to make it a unique Leica lens. The price does jump up a huge amount from the Panasonic version - around 5x - so a buyer would certainly hope they are getting something for that extra cost.
@ I don’t know exactly what happens between the Panasonic made Leica and Panasonic body. Thats a well kept secret. But when I worked with Panasonic I was told by some top people that there is a difference when using Leica glass on Panasonic bodies and I could see the difference in every lens I used (I had them all). I think what might happens is that the Panasonic made Leica lens unlocks a slightly different version of each color look in camera or perhaps a some type of digital filter thats applied to everything captured. I think the closest look at this in action is with the GX85 which has a color profile called Monochrome L. I dont know if all of this works the same with Panasonics full-frame cameras because I left them a year before the L-Alliance was announced
This was really insightful and I was surprised - I thought there would be a more pronounced - thanks for the unbiased comparisons, look forward to the video results!
The video side is also very interesting actually! Thank you mate :)
Judging from this video the skin tones are the main difference but would love to see another video with the higher megapixel SL2 or SL3 and a Leica lens.
The SL2 looks the same as the Panasonic Lumix S1R. The SL3 uses another Sony higher resolution sensor so the image characteristics will be very similar to other Leica and Lumix cameras. These Leica and Lumix cameras share the same Sony sensors. The Leica's even borrow the Lumix autofocus system. They're practically the same cameras only the SL3 has a higher resolution sensor from the same line up of sensors.
I used ChatGPT to create a really nice s1 to SL2 conversion Lightroom preset and I’m amazed with what I get with a simple click afterwards.
Thanks so much for this! I could be wrong but I was find it's the glass that gives the most character sometimes. Would be interesting to see a new Leica lens on both bodies and see if they look and respond the same.
Thanks Ed, I'm actually trying to sort that out at some point because I think that would be a really cool test :)
@@JoshCameron Epic keep up the amazing work bro.
I'm a camera reseller and this is the thing I always say to customers. There are great and expensive cameras. But this won't say these cameras are for them. Would you start driving with a F1 ? The Leica and the x100 are some of these cameras not for everyone but the influences of UA-cam are so great they believe it's THE best camera that never takes bad pictures...
Thanks for your channel I've discovered today. Sorry for my bad English.
I've known this since I bought my Panasonic LX100 in 2014. I couldn't believe how good it was in pictures and video and to this day it has (to me) the best color science straight out of camera of any brand.
Except for the pink faces :)
I was just thinking about this. I had a Leica SL and Lumi S5ii. But you already did the video. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
I don't base my buying preference on color profiles, film simulations, etc. You buy the hardware that feels good for you-- then you tweak the colors to your liking. If you do photography long enough, you'll discover that the whole shooting experience is most important.
Bullshit. You must always buy a camera based on the colors, sharpness, and aesthetics of the pictures that come straight out of the camera.
In the age of widespread RAW use, I understand Leica is more about the experience with the camera. And I for one hugely appreciate it being built in Europe. Imagine a UK-built camera!
Exactly, if you willing to support the company approach to production in EU and appreciation for photography in general, please go ahead. I think both are very important!
I hope this helps people realize what they really love is M Mount glass or Leica glass for L mount. Yes, some exclusive color profiles are really nice on Leica bodies. And DNG is amazing, but sometimes not 5x the money more amazing than a used S5
I remembered the SL2S looked different than the S5 esp when using adapted M lenses.
The other was corner smearing. At least when I tested, the SL2S was noticeably sharper in the corners for adapted M glass.
A niche use case for sure, but Perhaps give M glass a try?
Colour wise since Leica and Panasonic share technology there are only a few subtle differences. Leica files will be slightly more open in the mids. The Leica files will have the saturation slightly lower. Finally the Leica files have a few points less magenta shift to them. The Leica sensor has a thinner filter stack so it behaves better with older M lenses and shows very slightly more acutance with the absolute best glass (APO Summicrons). But this lens won't show that.
You paid for Grerman wages for assembly, the industrial design, menus and build quality. Plus the red dot.
Rocking the beard and stache Josh. Appreciate you sharing yet another insightful video!
Hahaha thank you! Appreciate it :)
Lenses make differences not bodies. I tried my SL lens on S5iix and it showed the same Leica magic. But if you want to maximize your lens, you’d better get a body from the same manufacturer. Hope you would test with some SL lenses next time to both bodies. IBIS of S5iix and OIS of SL2490 seemed not work properly to me.
3:08 what is this watch you are wearing?
I own the S1, S5, S5II, S5IIX and SL2-S. I've done the same tests and I can echo your results that the photos are 99% the same.
I think it's the same if you look at quartz watches. They are pretty much all very accurate (if you spend more than $50) as watches to tell time, and it's all about the brand, culture, build quality, material and how much you want to pay.
Are they really??
I guess not, you can`t compare some chinese quartz to a seiko or citizen.
Btw, it`s a lumix vs Leica comparison and the difference is clear.
Is the ISO sensitivity the same on the SL2s and the Lumix S1 or S5?
only buy a casio watch, be like Gates, same watch since high school.... or not, be like me, a cabinet full of swiss watches cause I love them. Same as I love, in general, all fine things. Loro Piana, Chanel, and Dior clothes, Saville Row suits (Huntsman anyone?). Vintage Ferrari. Lots of nice things that have equivalent low cost items if you only care about function. For me, Leica is worth it, I own 7 Leica lenses, and one Leica camera... I think I am done. I ordered the SL3 but am dissapointed with the performance in video. For video, I am holding out for the new Panny cameras in October!
My early Lumix Gh2 files looked digital, how are the S5II's?
You mention that for photos they perform the same. I wonder how the SL2-S perform against S5II X in video. Specially for skin tones. Could you help shareingyour insight?
Can we get I Leica lightroom preset to apply Leica colours on s5m2 images in raw post processing. Or even better can we load Leica colour science LUT straight into s5m2?
Exactly. This is the real question.
Thank you for sharing do you some of those files for download it and se the comparison?
I have both SL2-S and S5II using SL 24-90, M mount Leica and Voigtlander and Sigma 45 and 35mm lenses. Any combination of body and lenses above produces more then excellent images. Conclusion I come to using above combos in almost twelve months since I got S5II (owning SL2-S for two years). BTW there is a lots of Panasonic tech in Leica, bodies and lenses.
Thank you, I love tests like this, really helps to get over one's own biases when you see it's almost impossible to tell the difference. Although I can see why Leica has its allure, there's so much padding around the image quality discussion that it's great to be taken down to earth with real testing like this.
There are only a few camera + lens combos I've ever owned where I can recognize what I shot with, and it's always when I don't remember what camera I used until checking the EXIF data. But ultimately it's very rare that a camera can provide anything unique that's not reproducible by any other system.
I am shooting with my Lumix S1 and a full set of vintage Contax Zeiss lenses, and I am happy as a clam. Although, I have always wanted and still want a Leica M and a few M lenses. One day. Thanks for the great comparison video, very informative.
If you check DXO software last version (7 ?), you will see that there is an option to emulate the color rendering of groups of cameras. Leica and Lumix recent cameras are in the same color profile option... So I think the guys from DxO already known that it was the same color science which was used in both cameras. It is very interesting to check this DxO option, to see which cameras have similar or same color profiles, and at which generation of cameras of a manufacturer they change their color profile.
Those profiles aren’t exactly matching but are pretty close. There is more to color science than just matching hues and approximating tones. There is color phase and color density changes to luma and that stuff is extremely hard to test with color chart comparison matching.
@@jessejayphotography Those colour emphases can easily be reproduced in post. Unless you never shoot anything except jpeg - and even then you can tweak preferences endlessly in camera - the manufacturers look isn't a secret sauce.
UA-cam has compression and other things going on so you could really show us anything and we would not be able to tell anything about colours in a youtube video!
I nailed it!
Would like to see the same test with a Leica M lens on both cameras.
Isn't the Leica color magic only truly in their M series CCD sensors? Like they use Kodak sensors which from what I remember somewhere were modeled after Kodachrome film.
I think so, I only just learned about this recently, so I'd love to maybe try and find a body with the CCD sensor second hand to test it out :)
I’ve never used Leica but i was able to spot the slight difference without knowing which is which at the beginning. It’s slightly deeper colors and slightly sharper. So you could say I guess it right. Even the ABC, I chose B. Again, ever so slightly. Is it worth it? Hmmmmm…..
Very interesting! I actually liked the files from the Panny a bit more. But I think the differences are so minor, you'd only see them in direct comparisons. A follow up with Leica glass vs other L-Mount lenses would be quite informative I'd say.
Nice comparison and a rather expected result, no difference with Panasonic glass for medium resolution camera bodies. I would be interested in a comparison of Leica SL2 camera with Panasonic S1R when using the APO Leica glass. Maybe an update also with Leica SL3 and Panasonic S1R II (whenever the later becomes available).
After owning and using a Leica Q (stunning colours and sharpness) and an M240, I bought an SL. I was disappointed with the images and returned it. I’m sure the SL2 and 3 are superb. I bought a Hasselblad X1D2 and find the colours are amazing. I’m really happy with my decision.
Can you make a Leica Q iii vs Fuji GFX 100s ii video! I can’t find a video like that on UA-cam!
Love your video... Thank you! I have the S5 (OG) and a S1R, I am waiting for the S2R (S5R or S1Rm2). I rented a SL2 and compared with my S1R... Leica is Leica... but for work, the s1R is AMAZING... I am considering buying a Q2 or S5ii as I am a photographer. Keep doing what you are doing! You are the only one that I have notification bell!
Good experiment. How about using an SL apo lens and comparing the results?
The colors of the Leica M(P) 240 are really unique. Would love a more modern camera with the same form factor and the old color science 🙌
I have an S5II and I like the colors from it. In your comparison, I thought the B cam had slightly more contrast (or slightly darker shadows) and the reds on the Leica look ever so slightly less saturated than the Lumix but I didn't see much difference other than that.
DAMN! I thought the B cam was the Leica because the colors seemed slightly more saturated with smoother highlights in the first A and B test... I am shookith!
Well, on my calibrated EIZO monitor it is the exact opposite...
@@thomaslilly5834 hmm that could be the difference 🤔
I think the separator comes in when you use the apo lenses, granted you can throw them on an S5. I do still believe colors should be graded by what you can edit out of them , I’d never judge a camera I’m spending more than $3k on without color grading the files
Also I don’t think Leica is for bang fit your buck, i view it similar to designer clothes. No justification will ever be applied to make balenciaga tee worth $750 vs a $20 Uniqlo tee. If you want it you buy it cuz you want it, it’s never really a need with Leica/ designer
Great color science comes when shooting skintones in mixed lighting, bulbs & daylights or neon lights with daylight etc. There you can see the Hue control/quality that Leica has over other brands. And that comes from an ex Leica SL owner who just ordered a Lumix S5iiX to test it out :)
@3:07 I mean there is clearly a difference between the two in skin tone. Look at the lips and the color of the skin under your eyes. Overall skin seems more magenta on the Leica
That said they are very close and could easily be edited to match.
Josh, thanks for making this video and I agree with everything you said and will add the following. I’m a Leica M shooter, the M10-R and previously the M240 and digital CL, to be exact. The LUMIX S series of cameras are relatively identical to the Leica S series cameras when it comes to the internal technologies and colour science.
There are features in the external hardware and build quality where Leica shines over LUMIX but all in all, these cameras are identical. I owned the original S5, sold it for the S5 II which is definitely a worthy upgrade. Where the comparison you made is not equal is when it comes to autofocus technology. The Leica SL2-S uses contrast based whereas the S5 II has phase detect autofocus. For those who rely on autofocus Leica doesn’t provide this technology yet. You’ll see it in the SL3 and its variants.
I’m not an autofocus shooter and I am not a hybrid shooter or videographer so those features don’t really matter much to me. I shoot 90%+ with adapted vintage and M mount lenses. I use them on my LUMIX S5 II, Nikon Zf, Fujifilm X-Pro3, and Leica M10-R. One set of lenses I can use on all my digital mirrorless cameras. The S5 II is a beast of a photography camera and not enough people talk about it as one. LUMIX cameras will continue to get better and not cost an arm and a leg like Leica’s, Sony’s, Canon’s, or Nikon’s with similar features and capabilities.
This is a fascinating comparison. Thank you. I would say that in the portrait comparisons at 3:02, there is a smoother skin rendition and softer contrast from the Leica that offers a more pleasing image. However this is slight and can be corrected in post.
The BIG question is about the difference in the filter thickness on the sensor. It is reportedly uniquely thin on the SL range, to allow for the use of M lenses without smearing, especially when using wide lenses. I often hear this mentioned but have never seen a proper comparison. If there is any way you could do a once and for all test with Leica lenses on both the SL2S and S5ii, I think a lot of viewers would find that very interesting. Me included.
I was able to see the difference, however,pay over 200% more for 5% increase in image quality. As Josh said go medium format at those prices
Has anyone used the LUMIX S1R with the Leica M mount lenses? I’m curious to know if there is also another mirrorless system that makes these M mount lenses sing? I’ve gone from an MP 240, M11, SL2-S and M10-P - all are great and unique in their own right, but just way too costly, especially with their QC issues as of late.
I have been shooting a Leica M6 for the last 10 years and if you compare it to other film bodies that can take the same lens selection it's the smoothness of the experience that makes the difference. My Leica doesn't get in the way, the rangefinder on it is the best I ever used and it's just a perfect camera to be using for decades to come. It hasn't needed any service and I bought it used, built in 1990! Now that's build quality. Colour science is a funny thing, because in film the "sensor" and the "colour science" is always the same and comes from different manufacturers, Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, etc. It's all about the shooting experience and the lens selection. I personally prefer Zeiss and Voigtländer glass because the rendering has more character, but Leica definitely produces the best lenses out there from an optical viewpoint. I'm not surprised that Panasonic has finally caught up to Leica with colour science. Leica were the absolute best in the game already 10 years ago though. My old Olympus E-PL3 had terrible colours even with lots of light and broke apart beyond ISO 400. Canon 450D, awful reds because of the lack of filtration on it. At the time Leica M9 and later the M240 were already perfect over their entire ISO range👌other manufacturers are only now catching up. With a mirrorless camera going with Lumix makes sense and that's what I did, because the quality coming out of it is comparable. From a user experience stand point Lumix isn't all that great I have to say. The menus are definitely very cryptic and it's quite the learning curve compared to everything I've seen of Leica menus in reviews. And since there are so many options it isn't set it and forget it either, you actually have to use those menus all the time, so it is definitely a consideration. Where Leica really shines is in the rangefinder cameras actually. They're the only ones who still make bodies like that and it has been my preferred focusing system for the last 10 years. If I were to buy a Leica it would definitely be a rangefinder but the massive file sizes of the current models make me think that the M240 is still the sweet spot even though it's 12 years old. They have stood the test of time too, which makes it a reassuring purchase also from a resale value consideration.
I was 100% successfull to tell which ones was Leica and which not. Leica's trademark colors are orange, green and reds. The overall Lumix's colors are more saturated. You might prefer it but I like the Leica look. It's subtle but it's definitely there.
Some people definitely have a more trained eye for this stuff, and it's awesome that you can see the differences like night and day!
since you know the camera so well maybe you are able to answer this: How can i set the camera that it DOES NOT LOCK THE EXPOSURE AUTOMATICALLY ( AEL LOCK ) when half pressing the shutter button ???? ( in other words how do I DISABLE AEL lock during half press so the camera keeps changing AE !?!?! ) THANKS !
Great review man, I noticed the Leica has a tad bit warmer colors. Also, the lens makes a huge difference. I use the 24-90 and the 90-280 , had sigma glass along with it and noticed the rendering was different. It plays a “huge” but subtle difference in the images. Looking to possibly grab a lumix s5ii or s5iix to be a B-cam for the Leica (or vice versa?) . Thank you for the test and helpful info! Always enjoy your content!
Hiii thanks for the comparison is there any way you can make the files available to us so that we can compare them big? Thanks!
You could tell which one is which by looking at the red color (not saying which one looked better or worse). However, this applies only if you shoot in jpeg, for raw doesn't.
Can you show how to create a Leica High Contrast profile in Lumix? Thank you.
I’ll defo give this a shot!
Is it the same on older GF and GX series?
Just cannot understand why ‘judged’ a high end digital camera base only on their Jpeg image files results (such as comparing number of color presets:they are presets not profiles! Any comparison between color shift in extreme exposure settings? What are their usable dynamic range in the real world (not from lab reports)? Batteries lives performances? I am not saying which brand has a better performance but one shouldn’t judge anything without going through it inside out!
I've had both the S5 and the Sl2, and trust me, the Sl2 is spectacular, while the S5 is very, very good.
Thank you for being such honest! Really appreciate it.
Which lenses were used?
Lumix S Pro 24-70 F2.8 was the only lens used in the sample images :)
if you use leica M on the panasonic l mount you ll get a lot of smearing in the cornerns, specially with wide angle lenses, the glass stack on the sensor is different..
Looks interesting, well above my budget
One thing that should be vastly better with the Leica is the EVF, it's supposed to use their own glass lenses for a far better image - how did you experience this difference?
Very insightful! Thought I have to use the calibrate tool to match both „looks“. Seems to be only a minor difference in colour temperature 😮
Wasn’t the sensor co developed with Leica?
Bravo on using the 24-70 S Pro.
I'm seriously looking at that one for my SL2.
Loved the deeper colors from camera B more in the first photo's, and on the comparison with the s1,leica,s5II the Leica and s5II looked so close.
have you tried the original Leica SL? I think it still has the best color science of them all (SL versions)
Leica has a little more red in the skin tones. Nothing you can't do with a little adjustment in the whaite balance of the Panasonic.
I believe the question should be, which is more accurate at representing the actual colors. To me, the Lumix may have rendered more color, but does that represent the actual color of the scene?
Would love to see a comparison of the Leica SL primes across the same L mount bodies.
Then (maybe as a separate video) choose one body and compare one of the Leica primes to other L mount primes of similar focal lengths but at differing price points.
Is the Leica lens with the lecia camera that creates that color? Everybody is talking about it. Just cost a lot to have it
This is something I'd love to test for myself. This video was just showing the sort of images coming out of each camera with the same lens, so almost like a test with a 'control'. Therefore, one could only assume that whatever benefits are introduced by Leica glass could also be the same if you used a Lumix with Leica glass :)
I have an S1 and Sigma 1.4 28mm/40mm . I was using medium and large format film up until recently but I am not at all displeased with the S1 and the lenses are really superb (heavy 40mm tho..) I saw a strip down of the S1 and actually feel its build quality may match Leica, if not aesthetically at least internally it's built very well.
I do appreciate the video and your perspective. Thanks for sharing
Have SL and S-1 (have had many others), and I'm just a proud dad / weekend warrior hack. Couple of suggestions - first - Shooting with Pana or Sigma L Mount glass - you are shooting with glass far past 24mp sensor - and high grade. I'd be surprised to see much difference, but pop a 200-400 lens on there (non-native) from china - and then look... If you grab some vintage - say any 50mm 1.4 from decades ago - you will begin to see differences in the rendering - even in raw (although less). Side note - and while you are playing with glass from years ago - tracking down character - notice which one works better - and because the handling is so much better - you get more shots... Try it with a nifty fifty, and a 135mm and see what you think... If you really want to see a difference in jpegs - use old M glass... Second - I THINK (IMHO), that the difference between the SL and the S1 is significant, the difference between the S1 and the SL2S really isn't that much different. I would GUESS, the S1RmkII and the SL3 will be even closer... Also note - although few reviewers ever test the Pana glass - their "S" line is of the highest grade (50mm 1.4 vs almost anything out there - its holds its own - and is priced accordingly)... YES, I bought my S1 (as I saw it as a poor man's Lecia) - and I'm tickled pink - its really a powerhouse - EVEN by todays standards (Q2-2024) - but once I procured the SL - the SL is the chosen one - but I shoot 75% vintage. To take it one step further - try shooting B&W - I think the SL shines in this category. All said - would I mortgage away for a current SL3 or Q3 - NO, but I did TRY the SL2S - and in comparison to the SL - I kept the SL and played catch & release on the SL2S - but again - 75% vintage and 25% native... And I have a sony RX1 and several other compacts - so if I take out the S1 or SL - its on purpose, as its NOT an everyday carry, nor very nice unless you are planning on shooting as the main reason for being out...
I agree that as a base most camera sensors seem to producer pretty neutral colour.
one thing that I love and detest about my SL2-S is the Monochrome High Contrast Jpegs you mentioned. It produces such pleasing black and white that I never seem to be able to reproduce with the raw files. I shoot DNG+JPEG and almost always fall back on the jpeg for my black and white work.
Lol. I had the same problem a few times using raw + jpeg on my nikon D3500. I'd shoot some images where the jpeg version just came out perfect and I couldn't even match it let alone better it with post processing the raw. My editing skills are a bit better now but I shoot raw only so I don't have that "problem".
@@nicerides9224 yea, its not as simple as a profile I don't think - which is why I imagine you can't access the native camera looks in lightroom.
at least most cameras will let you shoot jpeg+raw
I thought that the Leica JPGs looked a bit more saturated, but the RAW looked very similar. On the street photos I did like the slightly more saturated colours better, but the Grey-background-studio-portrait well I didn't like any better... they all had various colour tints in the grey background.
I also noticed the background differences the most. I did find that the S5II and SL2-S looked more alike than any of them did compared to the S1, so that's kinda interesting!
How do the evfs compare? I’m also curious how the cameras would take M lenses since a lot of sl users use those exclusively
I always thought the Leica SL’s were Panasonics in Leica bodies with Leica menus and some tweaks. I wonder about the rangefinder Leicas, there might be more difference there
Important to note that the SL is different than the M… also Lumix/Panasonic actually work together on the L Mount so the Lumix would naturally be closer to the SL2-S than any other brand.
Correct.
really? So the L mount is what makes the difference? Since the L Mount alliance includes DJI, Black Magic, GoPro then all those cameras should look the same by your statement. ROTFLMFAO right Skippy
The SL’s sensor is not made specially by Leica as opposed to the M and Q series, just a note to know when comparing colors and explaining the magic of Leica…
Rent a a couple apo-summicron-Sl in your favorite focal length if you want the modern Leica look. I have 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and they work great on the S5ii or sl2-s.
Have you used the 24-105 Spro lens on the Leica? Dose the OS work in conjunction with the IBIS. 24-90
Actually I saw a little bit of difference but it is minimal and it was so close that it only comes to the red bot. Great video tho always wondered but don't have the money to test on a sl
Leica shooter here, recognized the Leica images... The SL2S is amazing, lovely with M lenses as well! Enjoy your SL2S, you made a good choice!
Interestingly, the photos from the Lumix seem to have more contrast and are a bit sharper, as in the photos with wall writing. They also look warmer overall.
I prefer the Lumix images tbh... and that hurts after shedding out for a Leica!
Great video, and I really see what you are saying. A while ago, I visited a fair where various major brands had their cameras on show, and I could try them all. I tried the defaults of Canon, Nikon and Sony, also some outliers such as the Fujifilm GF 100. And a Lumix S1, and a Leica SL2. If found that picture quality is similar for all major brands, differences appear in lenses and handling.
The one thing I learned at this fair is that the one thing the Leica SL-series wins over all these other brands is simplicity in the controls. You just get 8 customizable buttons, and that's it. Every photographer has his own style of handling a camera, the Leica adapts to everyone surprisingly easy. So while these pictures were no different than a Lumix S1, I did overall like the simplicity of Leica's camera.
I did however purchase a Panasonic S1 body in the end, because it's controls are second best, at a much lower price point. And it has a tilting display, which the Leica SL3 now also has. I also got a great second-hand Leica Elmarit 24-90 f2.8-4 lens, which is better than awesome. That lens combined with a S1 is the best of both worlds for what I do with photography. Image quality and handling is superb. If Panasonic will ever make a successor to the S1 with phase-detect AF, I would buy it immediately.
This is what I wanted to see! Thank you.
I picked the s5 in every instance as my preferred image.
Awesome photos as always, Josjy boy. What I really wanna know is... did you get one of those massages? 😜
what‘s the meaning?😅
What were your settings Josh in S5ii
Hi Josh, thank you for the interesting video. I have never tried any Leica camera of the SL line nor a full frame camera from Panasonic, so I cannot make any comments on your comparison. But I do own a Leica CL. digital and over the years I used several cameras from different brands. The colours of the jpegs coming out straight of my Leica CL digital are different from any other colours coming out from any other camera I used. I spent a weekend in London recently and used my Leica and my Ricoh GR 3 to take photos. As much as I love my Ricoh, I must say that the Leica produces colours which have a sort of a more vintage and realistic look compared to my Ricoh. Of course, it is just my opinion and my experience. Keep up with the good work you are doing, Manu
I'm considering buying a Leica, but mainly because I heard it handles vintage lenses particularly well. I think 99% of the color science and image quality comes from the lens. Therefore, I would like to try the combination Nikkor Noct 58mm 1.2 with a Leica SL.
@JoshCameron could you put a link for download 2 Images (Leica SL2 vs Lumix SII) in the description? It would be perfect to could compare the 2 images in 100% view. Thanks a lot for all your efforts.
Not surprising since the Leica C-Lux, D-Lux and V-Lux series cameras are all Panasonic made. Both companies work closely together and just announced a new upcoming "L2" project where they will share technologies on upcoming cameras, lenses and more. In fact, Im willing to bet the 47MP sensor in the S1R is the same sensor found in the SL2 and the 24MP BSI sensor in the SL2-S is the same sensor from the S5II. Highly suspect the megapixel counts are the same and the colors are so similar. Im guessing the only difference is the processor being used in the cameras.
Hey Josh, first off all i love the way you explain how these cameras feel and how you explain the over all experience. I was in doubt wich camera to buy recently. The Leica sl2 or lumix s5iix. I picked the lumix. Now, as i shoot mainly stills but thinking having the video features is not a bad thing for the future, it still feels like a mistake... what are your toughts on this please? Luxury problem...😊
Grtz from Belgium to you all.
Erwin.
For APS-C I've been rocking the XS20. My favorite Fuji camera. It's taken me away from my S5ii for a bit. However if you simply want the best then always go with the Panasonic. Even my G9 is gold!
S5II bangs!!!
I did see an extremely slight difference in skin tone with the Leica comparison shots. But nothing that could not be altered one way or the other in editing to get shots from either camera exactly how you like them. I have wondered how much tech collaboration there is within the L-mount alliance. I own the Sigma fp L, which some call the Japanese Leica, and I LOVE it. I highly recommend getting your hands on one for some testing, but make sure you attach a grip accessory, adding a personal grip that fits your liking is very much a part of the custom experience with this camera.
Curious when converting the the Leica and Panasonic RAW files I assumed you used Adobe Camera Raw either in PS or LR if so which camera profile did you select or just "Adobe Standard"