The best way to piss of Spock? Put Kirk in danger. And the best way to deal with a Vulcan struggling for emotional control is to invade his personal space.
Roddenberry himself said that he created Spock and Kirk as two parts of one soul. Spock representing the intellect, Kirk representing the emotion and McCoy representing the balance between the two. I think that's pretty interesting and remarkable.
"I have noted that the healthy release of emotion is frequently very unhealthy to those closest to you." I think about that quote all the damn time. I agree with Mccoy, but I also agree with Spock.
It's always interesting to see examples of a disadvantage to being a Vulcan. A human recovers from an emotional embarassment much easier than a Vulcan.
But it's not the disadvantage of being a Vulcan... It's the problem of a half human trying to be a full Vulcan! Spock is still trying to reconcile both of his heritages and consequently has "emotional control" issues that would embarrass him in front of his father...
You know shit got real when McCoy is talking about emotions, and Spock isn't even trying to contradict him, or chide him for his constant referring to them.
The Hulk really could be called a green-blooded hobgoblin! 😁 Banner's struggle to keep his angry Hulk persona from overwhelming his scientist's rational mind would be something very familiar to Spock.
Actually crushing the cup or any other non living object could be considered controlling one's anger (even though Spock might not see it as such) because losing control of one's anger would mean to inflict that anger upon a living thing whether it's the actual person that caused the anger or anyone else for that matter.
I think Plato's Stepchildren was one of the best episodes. It was emotional. It was philosophical. It dealt with the corrupting influence of power. It dealt with humiliation, hatred, powerlessness.
cornelius386 This comment is what inspired me to watch the episode which became one of my favorites for how it dealt with all the themes you mentioned, particularly the psychology of humiliation and how to deal with it. So little media really analyzes that as a subject. I think a lot of people have such strong emotions on this one because humiliation is such a difficult emotion to experience and since the torture is so psychological we, the audience, empathize with the characters so much that feel every ounce of pain that they do. But the characters humanity and Alexander’s arc is also so strong that the bad and good both leave a lasting impression. It’s like we ourselves came out of this difficult journey. I loved the episode and its psychology so much I even had to make a video about it. Thanks for the inspiration.
@@unclestephen2722 Why silly? Because they made Spock and Kirk do silly things? If you look past that superficial aspect, there are the much deeper themes mentioned above about philosophy, the corrupting influence of power, emotions in general, humiliation, hatred, powerlessness...all that arguably make this a solid, even superior episode...
Man is it tough to watch, though. Especially when you've suffered s--ual abuse. It's renowned for airing TV's first interracial kiss, but everybody forgets that they're both essentially being *raped.*
And his superhuman strength, which he is very much aware of. Another reason Vulcans (and hybrids like Spock) must keep their emotions in check all the time.
Leonard did a great job in conveying Spock's restrained rage at being violated which is actually what it was. A man who, as a member of a society devoted almost religiously to logic and purging of emotions, is forced to evoke them for a tyrant's own amusement is tantamount to being physically violated. To make matters worse, the man whom he holds as a brother may have been killed because of those emotions. To have pillars you have erected over decades in your mind to maintain discipline and control ripped away so quickly for perverse entertainment is humiliating and soul shattering. Spock is sitting there contemplating whether or not he has the ability to control his emotions as he always believed he did. His own beliefs have been shaken and he's struggling to regain that acceptable level for emotional stability. He is trying to let go of the rage and feelings of vengeance he feels towards his tormentor and yet finds every attempted foothold to be as loose as quicksand. I've been where he is and that's why I can see that very same dilemma. Brilliant writing and brilliant performance.
And he used a technique I learned in my HS drama class-if you need to portray someone on the very edge of losing control, it really works to play the scene as "quietly" as you can. Then, when you need to let a little of that pent up emotion out (in this case, crushing the cup), it hits the audience far harder than it would if you'd spent the previous minute or two stomping around.
@@almostfm Agreed!!! Three scenes in this episode stood out for me....this one, the forced interracial kiss between Uhura & Kirk, and when Alexander finally spoke without fear or threat from everyone else!!! This episode is a perfect example of the cruelty some people are capable of inflicting on others whom they consider weak!!!
Cute isn't the word I'd use. Kirk and Spock were telekinetically controlled while McCoy was forced to watch. Coming to terms with being overpowered is a long, hard road.
Such an incredible example of Vulcan history. They were a "barbaric" society, remember! While for a human it could be therapeutic to release anger, for a Vulcan that is 3x stronger than the loved ones around them... it can be horrifyingly dangerous. I love breaking down Spock's characteristics so much.
Reminds me of a episode of Enterprise, when Soval got hooked into a machine that removed his emotional barriers, so for a minute, he turned back into Matt Sykes.
Star Trek was set in space, but the shows themes were timeless situations that could take place anywhere, anytime. By the end of this episode Kirk has greater mental power than anyone, could rule the planet or do anything he desired, but instead he uses his power only to enable everyone to be free. There's more Star Trek in 5 minutes of this one episode than all the JJ Abrams abominations put together.
When Spock says the words “They have evoked such great hatred in me that I cannot allow it to go further.” I heard his voice start to break as in about to 😢 right as he said “Hatred in me.” When he said that it made me feel bad for Spock. This proves that even though he tries to not show his emotions as a Vulcan his human side ends up coming out just a little bit. 💗🤗
Interesting that Spock is not so much angry that he was forced to show emotions but by doing so he almost killed his Captain and dear friend and that seriously pissed him off more than anything else.
Hot dam. Spocks voice during this whole scene was literally laced with complete rage! All for Jim ~ *prances through the flowery meadows of slash* Jim boy, he's a keeper! xxx
this scene! what a fantastic tableau! I love the alignment at the start especially - where Spock is deep in thought and Kirk is seen in miniature beyond him as the camera pans out, on his back and looking nervously toward Spock... its overtly subliminal! there's a similar scene in The Cloud Minders where Spock is deep in thought in a dimly lit room while Kirk is sleeping across from him; gorgeously rendered, super potent imagery. great stuff.
This is some great foreshadowing of Spock and V´ger´s search for control and 'perfection' in The Motion Picture. Good thing that Spock came around in the end and realized how hollow that way of life would be and that the meaning of life is to embrace imperfection.
And this is why Vulcans do not (cannot) give free vent to their emotions. Compared to Vulcan emotions, human emotions are like a friendly tabby cat. We can give free vent to our emotions and then set them aside and embrace logic and reasoning. Vulcan emotions are so strong, that they must be ruled, else the emotions will rule the individual. And Vulcans have seen the results of being ruled by their emotions: A nuclear war and an almost destroyed planet. That was the cause of the Time of the Awakening. They knew they had to rule their emotions with an iron fist or the emotions would rule them.
Private release of emotion doesn't always create the feedback that people need to let go of the emotions it is released. The emotion remains tethered without the external acceptance or non acceptance of the emotion on the part of others.
How can Spock deny having emotions when he C L E A R L Y loves Kirk to death... Not even in a slashy way (But I'm not saying it isn't more than a 'Close Friendship'). Their love makes me happy. ^-^
Spock is so protective of Kirk...this is yet more evidence that people in the sixties lacked eyeballs. Seriously, how could you not see that complete devotion!! Thanks for the clip! :)
You people always go towards the perverted and sexual, why must you make everything gay incestuous porn. You do understand brothers in arms, brotherly love, the love we have for a friend can almost be as strong as we have for a sibling. This doesn't mean one wants to be sexual, all you have is your perversion and hollow self
Not really. I was 15 when Star Trek first aired. I wasn’t sure what it was, but I knew there was something going on. Being a very sheltered girl I couldn’t name it, but knew it was very strong. No one else I knew watched the show, so I just held onto the secret until I could work it out. In the ‘70s we started getting some conventions to Kansas City and I discovered the secret: The Premise. Fans were writing and you could sign up for $1 and they’d send out mimeographed stories … sent in plain brown wrappers. Everyone was afraid the Post Office would intercept the work and they’d be charged for sending pornography through the US Mail!
I wonder what a Vulcan-Betazoid hybrid would be like. I'm guessing a powerful telepath and empath, both sensing and expressing the full range of emotions, but still posessed of a very logical and rational mind. Like Sybok, minus his search for "God"? Yikes!! 😱
To a boy of 12, in 1969, Star Trek was beyond belief, and I could hardly wait for the next episode. Gene Roddenberry was a genius. He imagined it all and saw it all, before it was ever manifested on film. If there is anyone who rivals J. R. R. Tolkien, (Hobbit and Lord of the Rings), it would have to be Gene Roddenberry. There are very few phenomenons like this in history. Roddenberry was making "Moral plays", said Nichelle Nichols, (Uhura). It will never be forgotten. Star Trek is in the company of The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, the Beatles, Elvis Presley, and Jesus of Nazareth. My generation saw it all bud and bloom, into it's completeness. I can't help but get emotional. So what have I learned? At 64 now, I miss the old days.
It took many years for Spock to master his human side. In the end, he stopped resisting it and finally embraced it as being part of him. It was the logical thing to do
Wow, I have to agree with Spock on release of emotions. I also agree with McCoy's view on the same matter. I think there might be a perfect solution to this. If one wishes to release his/her emotions, and not ending up hurting those one loves closest, one should release them privately. That seems to be the solution.
Yeah I grew up to just put a muzzle on it and act like everything was perfect ... my mother said she couldn’t go to her parents with emotions either .. my father too... geee ... go do it private ... thanks mom and dad for not wanting to upset your perfect lil lives ..!!! Lol
I very much agree with your assessment! A week ago I was taking screenshots of this episode, and there were an overwhelming number of gorgeous images from this scene. There are also quite few moments throughout the episode where the color balance and details are simply breathtaking! I haven't seen Cloud Minders yet, but I'm looking forward to it even more now =]
Important moment for Spock to realize how emotion could happen anytime despite being in control. A moment to learn something and a moment to realize something.
In all of cinematic history (that I know of) there is only one other relationship of a loyal and faithful servant as Spock is to Kirk. I am referring to Sam, who through every trying experience of hell, would not let his master, Frodo, down. Through thick and thin, they stick together. Of these two relationships, nothing else compares.
The thing I have realised about star trek is that it is often one of the most cringe worthy shows of all tine, but the Bones/Kirk to Spock banter and just Spock in general makes it all worth it.
I think anyone who doubts anything needs to go and /read/ and actually get informed about what gene rodenberry has said about Kirk and Spocks relationship, given the fact that he actually said there IS deep love involved and that the affection would be sufficient to have fisical demonstrations of it, if the 23rd century allowed it. so yeah. you're lacking eyeballs if you dont see it
Marshak and Culbreath: There's a great deal of writing in the Star Trek movement now which compares the relationship between Alexander and Hephaistion to the relationship between Kirk and Spock -- focusing on the closeness of the friendship, the feeling that they would die for one another -- Roddenberry: Yes, there's certainly some of that, certainly with love overtones. Deep love. The only difference being, the Greek ideal... we never suggested in the series... physical love between the two. But it's the... we certainly had the feeling that the affection was sufficient for that, if that were the particular style of the 23rd century." (He looks thoughtful.) "That's very interesting. I never thought of that before. The Original Series writer David Gerrold, has also spoken about K/S slash sometimes. In 1985, Gerrold commented: "One of the truths I've been telling lately is that Kirk and Spock are not lovers... they're not even boyfriends. They're just good friends." When asked about whether there was intentional homoerotic content between K/S in the show, and in particular in the episode "Amok Time", Star Trek's writer D.C. Fontana replied, "In answer to your question, NO - there were no homosexual double-entendres in the script - at least none that were deliberate. If some viewers chose to read that into the dialogue, etc., that's their point of view, but certainly not ours. Writer Theodore Sturgeon was trying to reveal Spock's inner human in a struggle with what his culture, his upbringing and his half-human/half-Vulcan heritage had instilled in him about emotion and controlling it in an out-of-control situation. It also was a peek into the Vulcan culture that no one had seen before. That's ALL we were doing. I've heard this nonsense (especially about Kirk/Spock) for years. There is no basis to it.
This TOS scene is one reason I never could get into any of the "sequel series" TNG, DS9, or Voyager fully. It may be set in the "future", but this scene here is still relevant today and lesson-teaching. I think the sequel series got away from the humanity too much and tried to be about sci-fi technobabble. Here, you've got strong, subtle acting from all 3 actors whose characters drove the series, not the surface, pseudo-acting that existed in the later series. This wasn't even one of the best episodes but even in some of the better eps of the later series, I never thought the acting was anything to write home about! In the later series, it was more about exciting space battles and intriguing villains than great acting or chemistry among the main cast. The TNG cast, with a couple of exceptions like Worf and Riker, were generally lifeless, interchangeable automatons. Sorry, but true! To a lesser extent, same is true of Voyager although a few characters like Paris, The Doctor, and 7of9 were funny and had cheeky personalities. Only DS9 had some semblance of diversity and intrigue similar to TOS.
Vulcans: Almost all our emotions lead to homicidal rage, so we must suppress them. Klingons: Almost all our emotions lead to homicidal rage, so square up.
Sweetie, are we watching the same show? It's not about perviness or twisting anything we see, not when we have things like "this simple feeling" and "Sometimes, Mr. Spock, a feeling is all we humans have to go on." Oh, oh, and don't forget "Let me help." And the "Deep Love" quote. Sweeheart, our canon is long-range. On the USS Spirk, we play the long game.
This episode has some of the silliest and most degrading scenes of all if Trek. Yet in showing the characters dealing with their embarrassment and the situation in general, it also exhibits many of Trek's best and highest ideals. It's still hard to watch, but well worth the effort if you ask me.
What makes "Plato's Stepchildren" hard to sit through is that it is not pleasant to watch what the Platonians put Kirk and Spock through. The spectacle makes for just about the most disturbing episode of Star Trek. Kirk and Spock are literally made into puppets, albeit fully self-aware puppets, and have their dignity brutally ripped away from them. However, this is also what makes Alexander the most compelling character of the episode, because this was his daily reality and yet he still managed to retain his own hidden dignity and had not simply surrendered himself to his fate. Early in the opening teaser, when Alexander is first introduced, we see only a huge shadow on the wall of Parmen's palace and hear the booming echo of his voice from the cavernous hallway until he walks forward and the shadow shrinks down into the small figure who emerges into the scene, but the reality is that we get a glimpse of the giant Alexander truly is within himself and of how much greater he is than the "godlike" Platonians who are all small and empty and dead inside themselves despite their power.
Shiboline M'Ress I fully agree. It’s the most emotionally challenging episode but on a subject that is so rarely talked about and understood, namely the psychology of humiliation and how to get past it. This scene shows that brilliantly. Even the silliness of the torture scenes showcase that while Kirk and Spock are clearly suffering, to Parmen its all just a game, which shows his utter disregard for others freedom. Yet Parmen couldn’t handle one ounce of the pain he’s inflicted on others, paralleled by the fact that a scratch could have killed him.
LordZontar Dang, I just made a video on this exact subject and you took the words right out of my mouth. (Plato’s Stepchildren - The Psychology of Humiliation if you’re interested.) I never considered that in his intro, Alexander’s giant shadow actually reflects the “big” qualities within him from the start. He was the “bigger” person by ultimately choosing humanity. Great observation!
Spock was pissed. At this moment he wanted to kill Parman. That is the point of this scene but because he is Vulcan he also felt shame because he believes in peace. Even non half Vulcan’s would have struggled with this.
The advantage of being Human over Vulcan. Until such time as a human being discovers mastery over anger and resentment, he still has the option of release. Vulcans on the other hand are doomed. That is because the suppression of emotion is not mastery over them, for which reason Spock suffers.
i havent seen this episode so i don't know the context, but cutting from spock breaking the goblet to the little guy staring at him is so funny to me. it looks like he's terrifically irritated about losing a dish. i think star trek has the funniest cuts, lots of memorable quotes, and humorously over-the-top music
I remmeber Kirk said the same kind of thing to the Dohlmann of Elaas. She went to throw something and he said, "If that's the only way you can get gratification, I'll arrange to have this entire room filled from floor to ceiling with breakable objects."
omygod just kiss already!!!!!!! Take out your "frustrations" on each other ;))))))))))))) Do it for the sake of Bones, who has to put up with your sexual tension all the time!!!!!!!!!
Sorry that is your personal fantasy. Spock is not going to stand for the only brother he ever had to be endanger. Also a baby being breast feed is natural but your logic its kinky sex.
A telepathic controling tyrant was controling their bodies against their will to keep McCoy in the planet as a doctor. Spock was forced to laugh and cry which is bad for Vulcans, he was also made to tap dance around Kirk's body ( cause he could not move) and Spock almost kicked and stomped on Kirk hard enough to hurt or kill him. Kirk was being harmed and humiliated and kept in place
@@ai6894 Basically VIOLENTLY taking away his natural emotional controls. Something similar happened in Enterprise, when a another Vulcan had his emotional barriers damn near vaporized.
What would a human be with no emotions……Batman? A philosopher said we live life in 3 parts: consciously, subconsciously and sleep dream where do emotions reside? Scientist have said that your liver has a big role in your emotions/feelings which makes sense why alcohol makes us buzzy or certain foods make you feel satisfied. It’s like our human body is made up of emotions are they programmed into our dna? Same dna your ancestors carried do you carry their wills and feeling as well just as you carry their physical traits? Emotions seem like stimulations that make you react to situations that you later on regret but what is manipulating those stimulations. Your subconscious I guess for is the part of your brain that act alone until you know how to control it mmmmmmm🤔🤔
It's called "Plato's Stepchildren" and has some of the most cringeworthy scenes of the show in it. But it's Star Trek and that's why we love it anyway and everything is forgiven ))
I, personally, feel it's hard to portray a close bond without it seeming... intimate. however, whatever is said, I choose to interpret the events as they come for myself. I like the love-hate thing kirk and Spock have goin' on- and I don't think they're in love. but that's MY opinion,
I always thought of it as Kirk representing strength/bravery, Spock representing intellect and McCoy representing compassion.
Roddenberry himself said that he created Spock and Kirk as two parts of one soul. Spock representing the intellect, Kirk representing the emotion and McCoy representing the balance between the two. I think that's pretty interesting and remarkable.
*McCoy representing emotion, Kirk representing the balance between the two.
Ego/ID/Super ego.....Zeus, Hades, Poseidon. Tale old as time.
Spock - Super Ego.
McCoy - Id.
Kirk - Ego.
Ragitsu I’d say Spock-Ego
Kirk-ID
McCoy-Super Ego
"I have noted that the healthy release of emotion is frequently very unhealthy to those closest to you."
I think about that quote all the damn time. I agree with Mccoy, but I also agree with Spock.
Statement holds to close to my heart.
@@kentrellmitchell966 I agree!
What is healthy release of emotions?
Which proves there’s no perfect solution. Oh, wait! He always that.
It's always interesting to see examples of a disadvantage to being a Vulcan. A human recovers from an emotional embarassment much easier than a Vulcan.
But it's not the disadvantage of being a Vulcan...
It's the problem of a half human trying to be a full Vulcan!
Spock is still trying to reconcile both of his heritages and consequently has "emotional control" issues that would embarrass him in front of his father...
@@EarlJohn61 actually full Vulcan's also have that problem, remember sybok spock's half brother for starters.
I'm embarrassed of myself 24/7
@@elizabethjansen2684 Sybok didn't have trouble with emotion he just blurted it out like humans.
@@LordTalax he was also insane
You know shit got real when McCoy is talking about emotions, and Spock isn't even trying to contradict him, or chide him for his constant referring to them.
Good point, brugh
"Jim ... step away from the emotionally compromised Vulcan who can fold you like a pretzel."
Spock: "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
Ohh wait, wrong show....
I'm on my way to a job that makes me feel this angry. I needed a good laugh. THANK YOU!
Well, Spock's blood is the color green, so they're not THAT far off. :)
It might be the wrong show, but it still hold's true in Spock's case.
The Hulk really could be called a green-blooded hobgoblin! 😁 Banner's struggle to keep his angry Hulk persona from overwhelming his scientist's rational mind would be something very familiar to Spock.
Vulcan smash!
"I must control"
*crushes cup*
... nice job Spock
Actually crushing the cup or any other non living object could be considered controlling one's anger (even though Spock might not see it as such) because losing control of one's anger would mean to inflict that anger upon a living thing whether it's the actual person that caused the anger or anyone else for that matter.
Don't worry, I saw a whole long shelf of those cups at the Dollar tree store.
@@danielblair4413 You're quite right, but you're also likely right in that Spock wouldn't see it as control.
Nailed it
Lol.
I think Plato's Stepchildren was one of the best episodes. It was emotional. It was philosophical. It dealt with the corrupting influence of power. It dealt with humiliation, hatred, powerlessness.
cornelius386 This comment is what inspired me to watch the episode which became one of my favorites for how it dealt with all the themes you mentioned, particularly the psychology of humiliation and how to deal with it.
So little media really analyzes that as a subject.
I think a lot of people have such strong emotions on this one because humiliation is such a difficult emotion to experience and since the torture is so psychological we, the audience, empathize with the characters so much that feel every ounce of pain that they do. But the characters humanity and Alexander’s arc is also so strong that the bad and good both leave a lasting impression. It’s like we ourselves came out of this difficult journey.
I loved the episode and its psychology so much I even had to make a video about it. Thanks for the inspiration.
I must rewatch it. This one they hated, of course, and I have it listed in my mind as just about the silliest one.
@@unclestephen2722 Why silly? Because they made Spock and Kirk do silly things? If you look past that superficial aspect, there are the much deeper themes mentioned above about philosophy, the corrupting influence of power, emotions in general, humiliation, hatred, powerlessness...all that arguably make this a solid, even superior episode...
And who can forget the horse scene
Man is it tough to watch, though. Especially when you've suffered s--ual abuse. It's renowned for airing TV's first interracial kiss, but everybody forgets that they're both essentially being *raped.*
Spock's crushing of the goblet shows the deep anger within him more than any words ever could.
And his superhuman strength, which he is very much aware of. Another reason Vulcans (and hybrids like Spock) must keep their emotions in check all the time.
Leonard did a great job in conveying Spock's restrained rage at being violated which is actually what it was. A man who, as a member of a society devoted almost religiously to logic and purging of emotions, is forced to evoke them for a tyrant's own amusement is tantamount to being physically violated. To make matters worse, the man whom he holds as a brother may have been killed because of those emotions. To have pillars you have erected over decades in your mind to maintain discipline and control ripped away so quickly for perverse entertainment is humiliating and soul shattering. Spock is sitting there contemplating whether or not he has the ability to control his emotions as he always believed he did. His own beliefs have been shaken and he's struggling to regain that acceptable level for emotional stability. He is trying to let go of the rage and feelings of vengeance he feels towards his tormentor and yet finds every attempted foothold to be as loose as quicksand. I've been where he is and that's why I can see that very same dilemma. Brilliant writing and brilliant performance.
This comment need to be saved for this episode. No question of how abused one could be & feel given any situation where being tormented is a factor!!
And he used a technique I learned in my HS drama class-if you need to portray someone on the very edge of losing control, it really works to play the scene as "quietly" as you can. Then, when you need to let a little of that pent up emotion out (in this case, crushing the cup), it hits the audience far harder than it would if you'd spent the previous minute or two stomping around.
@@almostfm Agreed!!! Three scenes in this episode stood out for me....this one, the forced interracial kiss between Uhura & Kirk, and when Alexander finally spoke without fear or threat from everyone else!!! This episode is a perfect example of the cruelty some people are capable of inflicting on others whom they consider weak!!!
This could not have been better articulated. Well done, much respect.
One of my favourite ST moments ...I cannot say enough how great the acting was with fantastic writing ...🖖
Ah, what a cute scene, poor Spock. He's so loyal to his captain.
His friend.
Cute isn't the word I'd use. Kirk and Spock were telekinetically controlled while McCoy was forced to watch.
Coming to terms with being overpowered is a long, hard road.
I think Palpatine would use Spock's loyalty to Jim to his advantage.
My God, he loves the hell out of that man.
You don't mess with family.
Kirk and Spock and Mcoy are true meaning of brotherly love.
At last, somebody who sees it as brotherly love and loyalty. None else.
Such an incredible example of Vulcan history. They were a "barbaric" society, remember! While for a human it could be therapeutic to release anger, for a Vulcan that is 3x stronger than the loved ones around them... it can be horrifyingly dangerous.
I love breaking down Spock's characteristics so much.
This episode was really heartfelt,and it made me want to cry due to Spock was forced to show emoution,which could kill him
Reminds me of a episode of Enterprise, when Soval got hooked into a machine that removed his emotional barriers, so for a minute, he turned back into Matt Sykes.
Friendship thy name is Kirk and Spock. So protective of his captain. Brothers in all but blood.
Star Trek was set in space, but the shows themes were timeless situations that could take place anywhere, anytime. By the end of this episode Kirk has greater mental power than anyone, could rule the planet or do anything he desired, but instead he uses his power only to enable everyone to be free. There's more Star Trek in 5 minutes of this one episode than all the JJ Abrams abominations put together.
I know it's been a year, but I can't agree with this enough.
Charles Miller; Thanks for your perspective, I agree its wonderful!
Charles Miller you do know that you can praise one thing without tearing down another, yes?
Have to agree the intent of star trek has changed and it didn't really care if it took old fans with it.
@@scottfitzpatrick1939
Hijacked!!!
And this episode is probably why Spock was attempting Kolinar at the beginning of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
When Spock says the words “They have evoked such great hatred in me that I cannot allow it to go further.” I heard his voice start to break as in about to 😢 right as he said “Hatred in me.” When he said that it made me feel bad for Spock. This proves that even though he tries to not show his emotions as a Vulcan his human side ends up coming out just a little bit. 💗🤗
Interesting that Spock is not so much angry that he was forced to show emotions but by doing so he almost killed his Captain and dear friend and that seriously pissed him off more than anything else.
He was probably privately pissed off at T'pring. And then more so in Spock's World, when he couldn't even complete saying LLAP to her.
Hot dam. Spocks voice during this whole scene was literally laced with complete rage! All for Jim ~ *prances through the flowery meadows of slash*
Jim boy, he's a keeper! xxx
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha:)!
Perhaps the ultimate bromance.
this scene! what a fantastic tableau!
I love the alignment at the start especially - where Spock is deep in thought and Kirk is seen in miniature beyond him as the camera pans out, on his back and looking nervously toward Spock... its overtly subliminal!
there's a similar scene in The Cloud Minders where Spock is deep in thought in a dimly lit room while Kirk is sleeping across from him; gorgeously rendered, super potent imagery. great stuff.
Spock trusts Kirk and McCoy enough to confide in them, that's friendship.
This is some great foreshadowing of Spock and V´ger´s search for control and 'perfection' in The Motion Picture. Good thing that Spock came around in the end and realized how hollow that way of life would be and that the meaning of life is to embrace imperfection.
This... simple feeling.
@@graced1338 Well, remember he says something similar about the M5 computer.
I think Spock needs a hug.
Spock being made to nearly kill Kirk is having a great deal of trouble controlling his anger here, I think he is more human than he thinks, Bless him.
And this is why Vulcans do not (cannot) give free vent to their emotions. Compared to Vulcan emotions, human emotions are like a friendly tabby cat. We can give free vent to our emotions and then set them aside and embrace logic and reasoning. Vulcan emotions are so strong, that they must be ruled, else the emotions will rule the individual. And Vulcans have seen the results of being ruled by their emotions: A nuclear war and an almost destroyed planet. That was the cause of the Time of the Awakening. They knew they had to rule their emotions with an iron fist or the emotions would rule them.
I wonder what an emotionally uncontrolled vulcan is like?
Hm.
This scene is so MUCH, so intense....overwhelming in its emotions, just like the circumstances of the episode itself. Truly superb.
Private release of emotion doesn't always create the feedback that people need to let go of the emotions it is released. The emotion remains tethered without the external acceptance or non acceptance of the emotion on the part of others.
How can Spock deny having emotions when he C L E A R L Y loves Kirk to death... Not even in a slashy way (But I'm not saying it isn't more than a 'Close Friendship'). Their love makes me happy. ^-^
Spock never denied having emotions,he has to control them.In the distant pass Vulcans were very violent people,they almost destroyed themselves
Vulcanized have emotions, they just keep them bottled up. And Spock is half human after all
Spock is so protective of Kirk...this is yet more evidence that people in the sixties lacked eyeballs. Seriously, how could you not see that complete devotion!! Thanks for the clip! :)
Not quite lacked... The premise was clear for a lucky few ;)
You people always go towards the perverted and sexual, why must you make everything gay incestuous porn. You do understand brothers in arms, brotherly love, the love we have for a friend can almost be as strong as we have for a sibling. This doesn't mean one wants to be sexual, all you have is your perversion and hollow self
Not really. I was 15 when Star Trek first aired. I wasn’t sure what it was, but I knew there was something going on. Being a very sheltered girl I couldn’t name it, but knew it was very strong. No one else I knew watched the show, so I just held onto the secret until I could work it out. In the ‘70s we started getting some conventions to Kansas City and I discovered the secret: The Premise. Fans were writing and you could sign up for $1 and they’d send out mimeographed stories … sent in plain brown wrappers. Everyone was afraid the Post Office would intercept the work and they’d be charged for sending pornography through the US Mail!
They had Stonewall in the sixties.
Men can be close without being gay for each other.
I wonder how many Kirk/Spock slashfics were written based on this scene;-)?
I actually watched this clip because it was referenced in a slash fanfic lol :D
A lot
I’m actually going to tease some K/S in a scene similar to this in a fanfic I am writing. (It’s gulliver’s travels but Star Trek if you must know)
Twilight Trekkie post a link in here when you post it!
@@a_gay_homosexual_funeral Link when you've got a chance. Please.
It's good to have emotions and to express those emotions in a healthy way.
I wonder what a Vulcan-Betazoid hybrid would be like. I'm guessing a powerful telepath and empath, both sensing and expressing the full range of emotions, but still posessed of a very logical and rational mind. Like Sybok, minus his search for "God"? Yikes!! 😱
To a boy of 12, in 1969, Star Trek was beyond belief, and I could
hardly wait for the next episode. Gene Roddenberry was a genius.
He imagined it all and saw it all, before it was ever manifested on
film.
If there is anyone who rivals J. R. R. Tolkien, (Hobbit and Lord of
the Rings), it would have to be Gene Roddenberry. There are very
few phenomenons like this in history. Roddenberry was making
"Moral plays", said Nichelle Nichols, (Uhura). It will never be
forgotten.
Star Trek is in the company of The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, the
Beatles, Elvis Presley, and Jesus of Nazareth. My generation saw
it all bud and bloom, into it's completeness. I can't help but get
emotional. So what have I learned? At 64 now, I miss the old days.
cars were better too
It took many years for Spock to master his human side. In the end, he stopped resisting it and finally embraced it as being part of him.
It was the logical thing to do
He is an hybrid?
@@RolandTemplar Yup.
Wow, I have to agree with Spock on release of emotions. I also agree with McCoy's view on the same matter. I think there might be a perfect solution to this. If one wishes to release his/her emotions, and not ending up hurting those one loves closest, one should release them privately. That seems to be the solution.
Yeah I grew up to just put a muzzle on it and act like everything was perfect ... my mother said she couldn’t go to her parents with emotions either .. my father too... geee ... go do it private ... thanks mom and dad for not wanting to upset your perfect lil lives ..!!! Lol
Plato's Stepchildren, season 3, episode 10.
I very much agree with your assessment! A week ago I was taking screenshots of this episode, and there were an overwhelming number of gorgeous images from this scene. There are also quite few moments throughout the episode where the color balance and details are simply breathtaking! I haven't seen Cloud Minders yet, but I'm looking forward to it even more now =]
Important moment for Spock to realize how emotion could happen anytime despite being in control. A moment to learn something and a moment to realize something.
This episode could have been the Jedi vs the Sith before Lucas thought of it. It is all there.
In all of cinematic history (that I know of) there is only one other relationship of a loyal and faithful servant as Spock is to Kirk. I am referring to Sam, who through every trying experience of hell, would not let his master, Frodo, down. Through thick and thin, they stick together.
Of these two relationships, nothing else compares.
Indeed.
The thing I have realised about star trek is that it is often one of the most cringe worthy shows of all tine, but the Bones/Kirk to Spock banter and just Spock in general makes it all worth it.
What makes it cringe worthy in your eyes?
tos can be cringeworthy but its campy enough to get away with it
@@cailahm8067 You say that about every damn show today.
Description is too good
I think anyone who doubts anything needs to go and /read/ and actually get informed about what gene rodenberry has said about Kirk and Spocks relationship, given the fact that he actually said there IS deep love involved and that the affection would be sufficient to have fisical demonstrations of it, if the 23rd century allowed it. so yeah. you're lacking eyeballs if you dont see it
Marshak and Culbreath: There's a great deal of writing in the Star Trek movement now which compares the relationship between Alexander and Hephaistion to the relationship between Kirk and Spock -- focusing on the closeness of the friendship, the feeling that they would die for one another --
Roddenberry: Yes, there's certainly some of that, certainly with love overtones. Deep love. The only difference being, the Greek ideal...
we never suggested in the series... physical love between the two. But it's the... we certainly had the feeling that the affection was sufficient for that, if that were the particular style of the 23rd century." (He looks thoughtful.) "That's very interesting. I never thought of that before.
The Original Series writer David Gerrold, has also spoken about K/S slash sometimes. In 1985, Gerrold commented: "One of the truths I've been telling lately is that Kirk and Spock are not lovers... they're not even boyfriends. They're just good friends."
When asked about whether there was intentional homoerotic content between K/S in the show, and in particular in the episode "Amok Time", Star Trek's writer D.C. Fontana replied, "In answer to your question, NO - there were no homosexual double-entendres in the script - at least none that were deliberate. If some viewers chose to read that into the dialogue, etc., that's their point of view, but certainly not ours. Writer Theodore Sturgeon was trying to reveal Spock's inner human in a struggle with what his culture, his upbringing and his half-human/half-Vulcan heritage had instilled in him about emotion and controlling it in an out-of-control situation. It also was a peek into the Vulcan culture that no one had seen before. That's ALL we were doing. I've heard this nonsense (especially about Kirk/Spock) for years. There is no basis to it.
I'm thinking, "Leave him alone. Just leave him alone. He can deal with this only if you leave him alone."
When you finally comprehend the term “Oh shit” this just got real !!!
This TOS scene is one reason I never could get into any of the "sequel series" TNG, DS9, or Voyager fully. It may be set in the "future", but this scene here is still relevant today and lesson-teaching. I think the sequel series got away from the humanity too much and tried to be about sci-fi technobabble. Here, you've got strong, subtle acting from all 3 actors whose characters drove the series, not the surface, pseudo-acting that existed in the later series. This wasn't even one of the best episodes but even in some of the better eps of the later series, I never thought the acting was anything to write home about! In the later series, it was more about exciting space battles and intriguing villains than great acting or chemistry among the main cast. The TNG cast, with a couple of exceptions like Worf and Riker, were generally lifeless, interchangeable automatons. Sorry, but true! To a lesser extent, same is true of Voyager although a few characters like Paris, The Doctor, and 7of9 were funny and had cheeky personalities. Only DS9 had some semblance of diversity and intrigue similar to TOS.
It could be argued that Garak(DS9) was the best performance in Star Trek history.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I would say in this scene there was superb interaction between *four* great actors.
I don't think today's audiences would appreciate a space show with subtlety, ppl want their 'splosions
I totally agree with you on that comment. Thank you!
Bless you for all these slashy k/s uploads bb
Vulcans: Almost all our emotions lead to homicidal rage, so we must suppress them.
Klingons: Almost all our emotions lead to homicidal rage, so square up.
Sweetie, are we watching the same show? It's not about perviness or twisting anything we see, not when we have things like "this simple feeling" and "Sometimes, Mr. Spock, a feeling is all we humans have to go on." Oh, oh, and don't forget "Let me help." And the "Deep Love" quote. Sweeheart, our canon is long-range. On the USS Spirk, we play the long game.
I hated this episode but this scene was brilliant especially the way Leonard Nimoy plays it
I love this episode.
This episode has some of the silliest and most degrading scenes of all if Trek. Yet in showing the characters dealing with their embarrassment and the situation in general, it also exhibits many of Trek's best and highest ideals. It's still hard to watch, but well worth the effort if you ask me.
What makes "Plato's Stepchildren" hard to sit through is that it is not pleasant to watch what the Platonians put Kirk and Spock through. The spectacle makes for just about the most disturbing episode of Star Trek. Kirk and Spock are literally made into puppets, albeit fully self-aware puppets, and have their dignity brutally ripped away from them.
However, this is also what makes Alexander the most compelling character of the episode, because this was his daily reality and yet he still managed to retain his own hidden dignity and had not simply surrendered himself to his fate. Early in the opening teaser, when Alexander is first introduced, we see only a huge shadow on the wall of Parmen's palace and hear the booming echo of his voice from the cavernous hallway until he walks forward and the shadow shrinks down into the small figure who emerges into the scene, but the reality is that we get a glimpse of the giant Alexander truly is within himself and of how much greater he is than the "godlike" Platonians who are all small and empty and dead inside themselves despite their power.
@@LordZontar Very well put!
Shiboline M'Ress I fully agree. It’s the most emotionally challenging episode but on a subject that is so rarely talked about and understood, namely the psychology of humiliation and how to get past it. This scene shows that brilliantly.
Even the silliness of the torture scenes showcase that while Kirk and Spock are clearly suffering, to Parmen its all just a game, which shows his utter disregard for others freedom. Yet Parmen couldn’t handle one ounce of the pain he’s inflicted on others, paralleled by the fact that a scratch could have killed him.
LordZontar Dang, I just made a video on this exact subject and you took the words right out of my mouth. (Plato’s Stepchildren - The Psychology of Humiliation if you’re interested.)
I never considered that in his intro, Alexander’s giant shadow actually reflects the “big” qualities within him from the start. He was the “bigger” person by ultimately choosing humanity. Great observation!
The three muskateer’s of Star ⭐️ Trek……Captain Kirk,Mr.Spock,and Doctor 👩⚕️ McCoy.
Roddenberry was a savant genius
The way he crushes that cup makes me want to do filthy things to him. Don't we just love it when Spock gets angry?
@Samuel L. Jackson what??
*BANG!*
DOES HE LOOK LIKE A BITCH?"
Powerful scene i had forgotten things for bringing it out
so many feels!!!!
Greetings ☕🫖 good morning 🌞🙏🏻 this show very educational from the sci Fi side 🤺
I... somehow wasn't expecting that. O_O'
Spock was pissed. At this moment he wanted to kill Parman. That is the point of this scene but because he is Vulcan he also felt shame because he believes in peace. Even non half Vulcan’s would have struggled with this.
I like Michael Dunn. I remember Michael Dunn in the Wild Wil West...
He used to work for Buck Strickland as a truck tattler. They would give him a bucket of ice and put him behind the seat.
they even have toto in this scene.
I'm Spock
The advantage of being Human over Vulcan. Until such time as a human being discovers mastery over anger and resentment, he still has the option of release. Vulcans on the other hand are doomed. That is because the suppression of emotion is not mastery over them, for which reason Spock suffers.
Dr. Miguelito Loveless from 'Wild Wild West'
i havent seen this episode so i don't know the context, but cutting from spock breaking the goblet to the little guy staring at him is so funny to me. it looks like he's terrifically irritated about losing a dish. i think star trek has the funniest cuts, lots of memorable quotes, and humorously over-the-top music
_Reads title_
_Imagines evil Kirk on the medical table_
When my kids don’t do as they’re told
Give this man a hammer and a room full of disposable vases and he would have the perfect place for a healthy release of emotion.
I remmeber Kirk said the same kind of thing to the Dohlmann of Elaas. She went to throw something and he said, "If that's the only way you can get gratification, I'll arrange to have this entire room filled from floor to ceiling with breakable objects."
Spock, suggests purging!
Spock is PISSED!
Dr Loveless on the side of good.
hehehehehehe *breaks fancy cup* lol hope his hand's not bleedin!
Put the word out - Parman, Spock is coming for you. Run and hide.
As Khan found out too.
It's from Plato's Stepchildren.
omygod just kiss already!!!!!!! Take out your "frustrations" on each other ;))))))))))))) Do it for the sake of Bones, who has to put up with your sexual tension all the time!!!!!!!!!
Sorry that is your personal fantasy. Spock is not going to stand for the only brother he ever had to be endanger. Also a baby being breast feed is natural but your logic its kinky sex.
@@hamhockbeans where did the topic of babies come from they said nothing of the sort
🙄
This fucking show..... I swear to god..... this fuCKING SHOW
Ahh, ahhh, bitter dregs
he's hardly opening his mouth...
Well, Mr.James West , we meet again! oops wrong show.
That would be: Mr. James T. Kirk or Captain James T. Kirk himself solo or with surprisingly: Julie Andrews. NO humiliation. Right?
This episode is right up there with Spock's Brain.
he is man speading
what happened to make him so mad?
A telepathic controling tyrant was controling their bodies against their will to keep McCoy in the planet as a doctor.
Spock was forced to laugh and cry which is bad for Vulcans, he was also made to tap dance around Kirk's body ( cause he could not move) and Spock almost kicked and stomped on Kirk hard enough to hurt or kill him.
Kirk was being harmed and humiliated and kept in place
Unless your Gene Roddenberry... *Cough*
Spock was my hero
Healthy release of emotions, huh?
💨
Yup I feel better now!
Is this from “Plato's Stepchildren” [S3 E10]?
That's right.
Why did Doctor McCoy say that Spock would die if emotions are released?
Dr. McCoy told them emotions can't be telepathically *forced out* of him, meaning not his own.
@@ai6894 Basically VIOLENTLY taking away his natural emotional controls. Something similar happened in Enterprise, when a another Vulcan had his emotional barriers damn near vaporized.
@@JnEricsonx 🖖 facts I can still remember when Shran made Soval hysterically laugh while torturing him during the interrogation.
@@ai6894 Met both actors so yay.
What would a human be with no emotions……Batman? A philosopher said we live life in 3 parts: consciously, subconsciously and sleep dream where do emotions reside? Scientist have said that your liver has a big role in your emotions/feelings which makes sense why alcohol makes us buzzy or certain foods make you feel satisfied. It’s like our human body is made up of emotions are they programmed into our dna? Same dna your ancestors carried do you carry their wills and feeling as well just as you carry their physical traits? Emotions seem like stimulations that make you react to situations that you later on regret but what is manipulating those stimulations. Your subconscious I guess for is the part of your brain that act alone until you know how to control it mmmmmmm🤔🤔
What is the name of this episode please
It's called "Plato's Stepchildren" and has some of the most cringeworthy scenes of the show in it. But it's Star Trek and that's why we love it anyway and everything is forgiven ))
@kittykatBflat especially at 0:46
Bem boa a série só fiquei sem entender alguns pontos,mas de resto tudo certo.
Put the captions on, this becomes hilarious
kittykatBflat There are no captions.
sexy
I, personally, feel it's hard to portray a close bond without it seeming... intimate. however, whatever is said, I choose to interpret the events as they come for myself. I like the love-hate thing kirk and Spock have goin' on- and I don't think they're in love. but that's MY opinion,
That's how I feel about BIden
Bad episope but good componets.