Gunk is a good Monk Build! - Dnd 5E
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:34 The video itself, what I want you to know (Shadow 5/Fighter 1)
8:22 Math for level 5 and 6 for this build
10:50 Quick strats when progressing up to 5th level Monk
11:29 Conclusion
13:04 Anti range Monk Argument (Short)
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This works with Kensei btw but its weaker in my eyes. This also works with CBE/SS but if you do that, you have to grab fighter 1 first level.
I would use Kensei, but mostly as an 8 lvl primer for a John Preston build (Equilibrium, introduced Gun Kata gunking). The other 12 are dedicated to Battle Master Fighter and maneuvers like Disarming Attack, Evasive Footwork and more. Having the Deft Strike ability allows me to save superiority die for damage dealing and I’d also get a longsword for up close engagements just in case.
How I handle the calculations is I assume that you are gaining the maximum bonus to hit, and then do separate calculations to determine my damage without the bonus accuracy then take the average. The reason I think this works is that they are the highest, and the lowest calculations, so getting the average of those will give you your average DPR.
Yo kobold, I have a friend who uses a Gunk in our games. It works in practical play too. Our combats dont have much stealth so he chose a kensei. It still works.
Guy is like our main damage dealer.
Finally, someone who's willing to admit that Shadow Monk was, is, and always will be better than Gloom Stalker Ranger, Ghost Lance, and even ArtiChron. Not even the DM manifesting mid-game has the power to stop a character that goes Gunk. :D
...Seriously though. Good job with the April Fools video. XD
One thing that's nice about Kensei is that it's a lot easier to do the math with Deft Strike than Focused Aim. That'll be pretty easy and fairly robust against assumptions, and you also get a not-terrible ki conservation phase with Kensei's Shot.
Kensei 6 or 8 with Gloomstalker 3 or 4 would probably be a lot of fun for a one-shot, where you don't have to worry about lack of early game utility from Way of Shadow, but Shadow 5/Fighter 1 clearly gets to the good stuff faster.
>monk
>way of shadow
>uses gun
>gloomstalker ranger
>assassin rogue
Congratulations, you've made a historically accurate ninja
My friend built one of these one night while we were trying to make new characters. We were shocked because we realized it worked better than other monks, and neither of us like monks mechanically. Its crazy.
For people saying the flavor's not there, shadow monks are meant to be the dnd equivalent of ninjas more or less, and one of the most famous examples of a ninja doing their job is when a ninja used a musket (it was an arqebus, but still) to attempt to assassinate Oda Nobunaga, who was more or less the Abraham Lincoln of Japan. Ninja's used guns, and they avoided getting into melee as best as possible, with most of their training going into how to avoid and escape fighting someone face to face.
Calling Oda Nobunga "The Abraham Lincoln of Japan" is fucking hilarious
@@cephelos1098 the thing is it's almost right. Oda was a leader during a bloody civil war whose victory ultimately led to the formation of the state that became modern Japan.
There's a bit of an issue here in that Shadow monk is supposed to be the pop culture ninja, you know, clad in black, one with the shadow ect... Real ninjas are mostly a different story.
@@MaMastoast but some of the best pop culture ninjas are rooted in some form of actual historical knowledge on the subject. Even if it's not 100% accurate.
@@claylord4457 Sure, but the pop culture ninja does typically not use guns :), they pretty much exclusively use small swords and shuriken...
I'm just saying that the historical ninja isn't really relevant for the flavor of a class based on the pop culture ninja... I mean historically, ninjas would have probably done anything to get the job done.. which as far as I'm aware was mostly just spying.. walking around town pretending to be a merchant for 2 months for example.
But yea, the use of guns for a shadow monk doesn't actually bother me, just struck me as odd to use historial ninja to justify it thats all.
its mildly funny that treantmonk tried not to step on pack tactics tail only to stumble onto pack tactics tail
I'm pretty sure it's Pack Tactics trolling Treantmonk on 1st April, by releasing a video on a build Treant dismissed in his last video.
@@antongrigoryev6381 I hadn't thought about it
@@antongrigoryev6381 O, that makes sense if true i pretend 1st April doesn't exist
@@antongrigoryev6381 Treantmonk covers a different build than this if you actually pay attention to his video.
I am glad they both did it. I like the different points of view. In fact I am more interested when they both cover the same topic. I understand that I am an oddity however
Fun fact, ninjas loved guns. So this works flavour wise too.
So did japanese Buddhist monks.
Everyone who's ever developed gunpowder loves/loved guns
this reminds me of the picture of Buddhist monks with guns and the quote over it "patience has limits" and I now desperately want to do this
The trees can't be harmed if the Lorax is armed
I love this. There were real Japanese monks that rolled around with muskets, good times
I like how you said "good times" like you were there lol.
(Not being mean, it just made me chuckle.)
@@zac9933 because I was *intense reveal sound*
We’re gonna defeat you with the power of friendship!
And this gun I found!
This is by far the best defence of the monk I have seen, well done pack tactics!
Hey offbeat! 👋
Offbeat approval that means you know the build is good
The best way is playing RAW and not RAI.
Then just build lvl 20 monk. At lvl 20, when entering initiative without ki points, regain 4 ki points. When you take a short rest : regain all *Expended* ki points. Meaning if you slap your barbarian buddy a couple times, use all your ki, repeat and then take a short rest, you can have near infinite ki points.
The answer was looking outside the standard monk imagery
@@chaosgoblin that seems needlessly pointless and too gimmicky for any dm to even consider. The first time you hit the barb in character how are they gonna respond? Simply hitting and then backing off then doing it again a short time later can be ruled as you not dropping combat. At this point you waste the party's time and it sounds really annoying to have at a table. Also only following RAW has already been stated by Pack Tactics to be stupid as spells like revivify can't target a dead body and creatures can't grapple without hands. Being full monk is so lack luster.
I like how Kobold went from "I will never discuss martials on this channel" to "here's a way to optimize a martial which is notorious for being the class that is hardest to optimize".
That's character development right there.
Optimized Martial:
Proceeds to use spells for the biggest impact
We don't really have anyone in optimization try to defend Monks so I gave it a shot myself. This is a good build. But do I think monks are horrible? Yes.
@@PackTactics At least they're not Rogues. Only thing I've seen them do is adding another martial damage dip in Assassin after you've exhausted the better ones (Battlemaster and Gloomstalker).
@@fadeleaf845 try arcane trickster with a substantial dip into bladesinger
@@PackTacticsexcellent overview and class build. I've played monks ALOT.... like for 30 years in every edition. Their main problems are WoTC are cowards and that they had a weird starting point. The beat monk so far has been the 4th edition monk which was a caster who ignored most weapon propeties and damage dice when doing their monk attacks.
1. They were created, as i understand it, because one of the devs back in the late 70s was a HUUUUGE fan of the Remo Williams adventures and they modeled him off of that and not real world martial arts or martial arts legends and stories or even just old kung fu movies.
2. They compromised with the 3.5/5e build. Because if you dont include enough martial arts razzmatazz you just get a fighter. BUUUUT if you give it a bunch of reflavored spells or special abilities it needs to thematically be a monk and be effictive then it makes the other martials look kinda crappy. Also the 5th editon monk took too mich from 3.5 and not enough from the 4th, which was a casting class
There was a Buddhist monk monastery in Japan that focused on honing ones skills with black powder firearms so this awesome and has historical Precedent. Ranged monks are real monks!
I think I know what you’re talking about, you’re referring to the Ikko-Ikki of the Sengoku Era yes?
@@thenecrodancer4833 i see, a fellow shogun 2 total war enjoyer.
To those that think ranged monks aren't a thing, clearly you have never seen Equilibrium or heard of Gun-kata
I get where you are coming from, but did you have to bring up that dumpster fire of a movie?
Yeah, now I want to make a “cleric” doing Gun-fu
"We can't expect God to do _all_ the work."
-Joshua Graham.
@@badryukun what are you talking about that was a great movie😁
@@benry007 Please tell me that is sarcasm.
It wanted to be the matrix so hard. But in the end it is ugly, was borderline cartoonish(I mean the antagonists were literally killing puppies. Like, come on.), the writing was just plain terrible, and it wasn’t the Matrix.
Behold, gun kata the class! This is a gun-fu build! Definitely using this in a modern setting to become a dnd John Wick.
Or John Preston from Equilibrium, played by Christian Bale.
@@lt.branwulfram4794 Always the first thing that comes to mind for me but as far as games go, I wanna mention Cassie Cage and Erron Black from Mortal Kombat.
My monk used a grenade launcher as his monk weapon. He multiclassed into artificer since we were playing Descent into Avernus, and ended up making a grenade launcher alongside being the mechanic for the party's war machines. It was a fun time tbh. He was a sun soul monk, and he rode around on a devil's ride (big ass motorcycle), also carrying a chained sickle. The DM eventually flavored him to always have slightly glowing feathers (he was a kenku) that looked like hot coals, so they started calling him ghost rider. Probably one of my most fun characters I ever played.
Playing a Giff Gunk as a jolly hunter sounds like a good time to me.
This is amazing in a party with a loxodon assassin rogue flavored as a master of disguise and infiltration
@@alexandrudorries3307 everyone is large and in charge. Needs Firbolg Druid, Orc Wizard, Goliath Cleric.
@@alexandrudorries3307what is this? dnd Bebob and Rocksteady? Lmao
There is only one major problem with pass Without Trace being paired with a gun, and this is going to depend on your table more than it depends on the rules. Muskets are *loud*... like, REALLY loud. By RAW this isn't a factor, but depending on your DM there's a chance that at minimum firing your weapon in a dungeon will put all the other monsters in the dungeon on alert, meaning no more passive perceptions, but it could also lead to enemies from other rooms in the dungeon to come and investigate who's firing what amounts to a small cannon in this other room.
I don't really have a good way around this other than spending *even more ki* casting silence, but that's a stopgap measure and not a real solution.
To be fair, you could totally bring multiple weapons with you. If you have a Shortbow as well, you can use that if you feel like an encounter won't be the Big Encounter for that dungeon, and you wouldn't even need to un-Monk-ify the Musket in that situation since a Shortbow is already a Monk weapon.
Granted, most of the tables I've played at recently focus more on RP with combat being high-stakes, infrequent and a sign that planning has broken down or that we're really close to a major villain confrontation so it might feel better for me to use every resource possible. But there are also other party members who can potentially cast silence, (you're almost always going to have at least 1 bard, ranger, or cleric), silence is an excellent spell just in general, (you could cast it dual-purpose to partially nulify a spellcaster and quiet your gunk at the same time) and the ki points might be well spent in the edge case where this is a worry. You're essentially using them to keep a manageable encounter from becoming unmanageable.
Also combat in general should be pretty loud, with people screaming war cries, wounded combatants yelling in pain, doors and furniture being broken, etc. If there are enemies a few rooms away in an otherwise quiet setting they should probably be investigating regardless.
I'm kinda new to dnd can I ask what RAW means
@@kylepence2066 Rules As Written, vs RAI, Rules As Intended. AKA, what the designers actually wrote down vs how they expected the rules to work.
@@kylepence2066 Rules As Written.
I’m currently running an Warforged Astral Monk with two revolvers in an old west game on my channel right now. He’s recently gotten an Arcane Propulsion Arm that the DM lets do Monk things at a distance; feels good!
Flavor-wise, I think the idea actually does work. Basically, think Neo from the Matrix or John Preston from Equilibrium, perhaps even John Wick. It's within the spirit of what a monk is, it's just a twist on the idea.
Also a more fantastical version of the Ikko Ikki.
Love seeing the love for Shadow Monks on this channel. Being able to spam PWT alone has been how my Shadow Monk maintained relevance with the rest of his party when he couldnt keep up with DPR or Tanking
I was recently considering how to make a ranged monk, then the idea hit me to use guns, not because it is the optimal monk strategy, but because for some reason the idea of cowboys came to my brain and I was like "Monk is the perfect cowboy because Weapons+Unarmored=Cowboy." Cool to see that the Gunk conclusion can be reached through much more optimal thinking. lol
Plus have you seen how often cowboys in movies knock someone out with a single hit? Definitely a monk.
"I dont think anyone knows about the gunk."
Me, sitting on a gunk build for the right campaign: "Of course I know him. Hes me."
Let's gooooooo! I been waiting for this all morning
I made a village of gunks in a Korean-themed setting, so it's nice to see them getting more recognition! Loved the build!
Leaving aside quibbles about firing off three Musket shots a round being somewhat incompatible with stealth over the medium time frame, this is still great, if for no other reason than it's a bit different. It's a fun change of pace, and that's good. Been playing Gloomstalker or Battlemaster archers? Why not try Monk, and have a character who feels really unique for the first five levels?
If you or your DM is allowing guns in your game, then I don't think it's much of a stretch to allow the Monk to use their dedicated weapon feature on a Heavy/ Two-Handed Weapon if it was a ranged one so they can pick up a Heavy Crossbow. You're going from a d12 to a d10 but I think it's a fair trade for a quiet weapon.
Something something Skulker feat I guess.
@@curnott6051 To be sure. But a Heavy Crossbow version of the Gunner feat (CBE trading the Hand Crossbow bonus attack for +1 dex), and allowing a Heavy dedicated weapon is ~technically~ going outside the rules, while the firearms are still RAW with an optional rule. Personally, I'd much rather do that slightly homebrewed crossbow than use a gun. Three shots in six seconds is kinda goofier than the hand crossbow stuff--I mean, if we're talking muskets, Minutemen was impressive.
Or we can just "Flavor is Free" and say that it's not a musket, but a special kind of advanced compound bow, or one using special materials like the horns of exotic creatures. Might even be a great hook for a quest, where the players need to hunt something really big to get something better than a longbow.
You know, had the party I was in last campaign known about this, the idea of giving a laser rifle to our shadow monk might have been even more insane, however that player was not built to optimize that stuff and I believe this was pre-Tasha when he started playing the character.
@@thebitterfig9903 I think I would say it starts as a slightly altered musket and then as time goes on you take it apart and reassemble it continuously tinkering with it. Eventually its not really a musket anymore even if you still call it one.
Not gonna lie - I’ve had an idea for a warforged hunter character, that was stealthy, and used firearms, and I think this type of build is a really good route to go! Great video! Not entirely optimized, but shadow monk + eldritch adept can also be really good with this build, essentially providing yourself both cover and making it hard for enemies to enter melee with you
Thanks for your hard work!
Tasha really helped monk a lot with dedicated weapon and focused aim, opened up a lot of creative builds
This was actually my first monk about 2 or 3 years ago! Tabaxi Kensei with a Tal'dorei pepperbox while playing CoS. My DM and I hashed out how/why in my backstory. Misfires meant martial arts were a good fallback, and my speed and range made me a nearly untouchable encounter breaker, even in confined spaces. We agreed to put my previous PC (a way over level necromancer/nuker with Strahd's brides as support) as a boss just challenge us after level 6
You know, if we assume we can use a musket or pistol, I'd actually kinda like to see a build specifically making the most of those weapons.
The gunslinger class in the Critical Role supplement is all about using guns and is now considered canon.
@@TheScottishKayaker why is it cannon?
@@thecharmer5981 because what is a cannon but a big gun?
@@loosinit_mc i mean no, but also yes
@@TheScottishKayaker it makes guns worse. Just go battle Master and it's the same thing. Gunslinger gives a negative to guns where s dmg doesn't do this
Now this is a monk I could get behind. Thanks for this!
I made a build for this a few months ago. I went Kensei 3 for the 6th level feature allowing you to use 1 ki to add 1d8 to an attack. this allows you to use the third level feature for the bonus action attack. as you said, gunner at lvl 1 and sharpshooter at lvl 4. Adding 4 levels of gloomstalker gives archery, hunter's mark, and 4 attacks on round 1. taking further ranger gives you pass without trace, eventually letting you have your cake and eat it too. appreciate this topic being covered!
alternate build is going battlemaster 4. depends on how much you want action surge and maneuvers as opposed to spells and consistent damage increases.
Hold up. You're forgetting something about the Monk Weapon property.
"You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. (!)This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table."
This means no matter what weapon you're using as long as it has the Monk Weapon property. we can substitute the damage die for our martial arts die.
And from Dedicated Weapon:
"Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a *monk weapon* until you use this feature again."
As long as we have proficiency with the weapon, we can deal 1d4 to 1d10 damage depending on level.
This means Sling, which benefits from Crusher thanks to its damage type, is a very competitive ranged weapon for a Monk. We can also accomplish all of this with a Hand Crossbow and Crossbow Expert, and we don't have to badger our DM into adding, and not mangling, the PHB version of guns.
Issue with that is you have to go deep into monk levels whereas the gunk can stop at the important point and start adding multiclasses. Treantmonk did a video about how ranged monks don't work well specifically when they are full monks, MCing is what makes up the power difference
The key word there is “CAN.” You are not obligated to swap the damage die. At low levels, the musket is far and away the best option. (This is also why people have suggested finding a way to get Longsword proficiency as a monk, as it qualifies for Dedicated Weapon and can be used with Versatile for 1d10 damage.)
About that last point, you gain versatility by being able to fight at both melee and range. Against ranged enemies, you can use your superior speed to close the gap and use unarmed strikes and flurry of blows to stun them. Against melee enemies you want to keep your distance.
That being said, it doesn't fit every character concept. And it shouldn't. This is the answer for "how to build the best damage dealing monk". If your character concept is more unarmed strike based, then this isn't the build for you. Everyone plays differently and no one build is superior to the rest because people have different criteria for fun.
if you want a melee monk do a half elf mercy monk with a longsword. ua-cam.com/video/KF0_RstASUc/v-deo.html
The best “monk” I’ve ever played was an Evil Divine Soul Sorcerer casting Inflict Wounds.
This might be my new favorite channel
Ahh I'm playing one of these it's great fun, I'm interested to see where you go with the build.
A little sus to say "PwT makes monk's own damage irrelevant" since now we need to justify Monk over Ranger (Gloomstalker outdamages and brings *more* utility) or Druid (full caster). Not a discussion monk wishes to enter.
Exactly. Once you use PWT, you only have 3 ki left over for a fight, which can easily be spent in the first round. A gloomstalker can use PWT and still have perma-advantage in darkness + Dread Ambusher without whining for short rests.
It's not the weakest class, but still the third weakest
@@fadeleaf845 Rogue, Monk, Barbarian are all just *bleh*. Playable at low/no optimization tables but it's really hard to justify them over any alternative when you break down the numbers.
@@celphiro9372 Like, I agree with the principle that PwT is a spell any party should try to include, but Shadow Monk is probably the worst way to do so - ki is such a stranglehold of a mechanic as you've shown.
@@gaiusgracchus7759 there is at least one really good rogue build but in the other 2 cases yea
"DMs who allow artificers usually also allow muskets." Where is this coming from? I think that's a pretty bold assumption to take for granted.
I thought this was serious for a solid 3-4 minutes of the video. You got me, Kobold. You got me.
I ended up making a Githzerai Gunk by complete accident for my first ever 5E character: built a pretty straightforward Monk for Tomb of Annihilation in the expectation they’d die before too long, but even though they were knocked down to 0 HP over 20 times on the journey they recently made it to Omu and to Level 8 and picked up Gunner to take advantage of a bevy of firearms and gunpowder supplies the party picked up along the way that no one could actually use. That was only three weeks ago, so pretty funny timing to see this video pop up so soon after when I was looking around and hadn’t seen much of any discussion of gun-monks in the usual spaces. Stunning Strike to meet the Ki-Expenditure requirement followed by two point blank shots to the face (with advantage!) is both pretty powerful and a hilarious mental image.
Be a monk, get a gun, congrats you’re now a ninja.
a very loud ninja.
@@simoneval2619 Doesn't matter how loud you are if everyone you want to kill is now dead.
@@simoneval2619 believe it
Swarmkeeper is the better ranger route for a ranged monk multiclass. Especially shadow monk using a gun. Snipe a target from 100 feet away and use your swarm of shadows to yeet the target 15 feet in any horizontal direction.
15 feet over the outer wall of a castle rampart.
15 feet over a bottomless pit.
15 feet to the left of whatever tree branch, platform, or watchtower the enemy was perched on.
Swarmkeeper is phenomenal.
If you're gonna recommend a 4 class multiclass might as well dive into the shadow theme. 8 shadow monk/4 echo knight fighter/6 swarmkeeper ranger/2 war wizard. Put your shadow bullets, shadow clones, and shadow swarm everywhere on the battlefield.
where are you going to get that 13 int for war wizard lol ....
I already know I gotta get that merch!
I enjoy my Monk/cleric multiclass
Sometimes it's way of long death and grave domain, sometimes it's war and kensei, Shadow and twilight/or trickery combo. It's fun
Won't this burn through your ki at lightspeed? At level 5 you have 5 ki, minus 2 for pass without trace. That leaves 3 ki for two or three uses of focused aim and ki-fueled. If we assume you optimize by only using focused aim once per turn to maximize the number of bonus action attacks your ki buys you and we assume that focused aim will guarantee a hit, and that you only need to spend 1 ki, your dpr for those three turns is 37.875 [20.5+(41*.4)+(.05*19.5)]. Making similar assumptions about a CBE/SS battlemaster fighter (precision guarantees one hit per turn), they can do about 35 dpr [17.5+(35*.5)] for four turns and 52.5 [17.5+(70*.5)] on a turn with action surge.
Gunk doesn't exactly compete with the archetypal big damage build in sustain or burst, but the utility of pass without trace probably outweighs the meager utility from other bm maneuvers. The disparity in damage yawns rather wide if you assume we're fighting for more than a few rounds per short rest. I won't bother with the math but it's easy to see since the fighter build can make ba attacks all day and night.
tl;dr Good damage for a few rounds and then your socks will return to their rightful position on your feet.
No matter what you do, you will burn those ki fast but this is one of the most conservative way to do it and you have a huge justification for short rest demands thats as great as a warlock.
Gunks absolutely does compete with the big builds, they boost those big damage builds by 2 times the average damage because of short rest pass without trace. What other martial build can boost the whole team's preformance by two fold? I can tell you a straight battlemaster can't do that.
I have a question, I have a character idea that’ll eventually be a level 12 gunslinger fighter and level 8 kensei monk and want some advice on how to optimize this.
I actually had a version of this but with the short bow that ended at 8 shadow monk/6 assassin rogue. This was before Tasha’s, but it was a good build for the extra monk things (patient defense, stunning strike, stillness of mind in a dragon-heavy campaign), but range with sneak attack. I amped it on the assassin end that, if Jon were to come up to an enemy to go in melee, it’s starting in with a poisoned blade and stunning strike.
The Gunk: "I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. Smells like inner peace."
Man. Haven’t thought about a gun monk in a long time. Though I was going more for a melee CQC style fighter.
Hard to remember, but I think Bilbrons and Dragons made a "john wick monk" that used a crossbow in melee.
Looking at Chinese and Japanese history it’s lore accurate too
You did earn my subscription
I remember using pass without trace when I (ranger with expertise in stealth) and a rogue who also had expertise in stealth both got natural ones and still managed to sneak through.
Correction Muskets are *Firearms* Ranged weapon not simple or martial that dedicated weapon requires.
in the DMG musket is under martial ranged weapons. Look in the firearms table.
read
It should really say something about WotC writing/game making that the mathematical best option following RAW is to ignore features.
What, like that they didn't write their roleplaying game with high level optimization in mind?
Good day for this video
I built s Dragoon style build using the drakenward ranger with gunner and mounted combatant with the same kind of thought process. He rides his dragon around the outside of the battlefield taking shots at the enemy. This forces the enemy to either allow him to attack them unchallenged or go way out of their way to deal with just one enemy.
Nice vid!
Just FYI:
• Pass w/out Trace does *not* work against magical means
• There is no such thing as a surprise round, only the surprised condition - which does *not* confer advantage against surprised creatures. Altho being hidden would give adv on the player’s first attacks.
Anyway, You and Treeantmonk should do a collab on this, since he released his video on the Gunk as well!
Fecking awesome.
I didn't say there was a surprise round.
@@PackTactics sounded like ya did.
If not, then ok.
Also what about the rest of what i wrote?
Feature says only martial and simple weapon. Gun is firearm weapon. RAW it does not work :P
@@miquando5033 that’s what dedicated weapon is for. See TCE page 48.
I like the respect between Bagpipes and Treantmonk, the gunk is a rather specific topic around the same time. The only requirement beyond the PHB is guns, and I like it.
Actually, Ki-Fueled Attack is an optional rule from Tasha's, the same book the Gunner feat here is from, but that shouldn't be an issue since DMs that allow one usually allow the other.
@@Technotoadnotafrog You're right, but Ki-fueled attacks and such isn't required to make a gunk. They merely make the gunk better.
"this isn't a monk if it's not using kung fu."
*stares angrily in sohei and creates a civil war to prove the point*
War cleric 1, covers the occasional need for bonus action attack without ki fuelled attack and provides great buff spells. Also Divine favour is a nice extra 1d4 of radiant that adds to all future attacks for a minute without the annoying need of hex/hunters mark to swap targets..
April 1st?
The best use of a monk is by the necromancer after the three failed death saves.
I'm (mostly) kidding folks. Put the torches and pitchforks down, folks. :)
The real april fools video is on my community page. I recommend you watch it.
The best way to get a musket at level 1 is simply picking up the gladiator background. It lets you pick a bunch of weapons and musket is one of the options
It's worth noting that the gladiator background specifies an "inexpensive but unusual weapon". Firearms are unusual but those offered in the DMG are far from inexpensive so it'd have to be a discussion with your DM. I considered this when I tried building a gunk, watching the intro to Treantmonk's video (before I even realized that he was going to cover the exact same build I wanted to do) but was stopped at that caveat. I'd let it slide in my games since guns would be hard enough to come by anyways.
Equilibrium, cleric of the Tetragrammaton Council comes to mind with this build. A Gun-kata monk sounds really cool.
Very good video. I wonder if Mercy Monk could fit in optimized tables. It might contribute to redeem Flurry of Blows.
I just like imagining a meeting of monks. Theres these ancient looking masters with Bo staffs and rope darts and dao swords.
And one dude with a big f*****g musket on his back.
Plus this is literally gunfu
Btw, a musket can double as a staff(just saying)
I do like that this also allows Stunning strike into bonus action melee shot. That just sounds pretty fun.
You smash their face in with the back of the musket, brilliant. 👌
@@FlatlandsSurvivor Yeah! And i dont see why you couldnt make a melee attack with your musket as a staff, stunning strike that, then immediately shoot as extra attack, and then bonus action shoot again. And you can happily do sharpshooter.
That's literally one of the coolest things i can imagine. Something straight out of the matrix or one piece
Just discuss it with the dm before hand. I'm sure they'd be fine with it
Elven Monk: "after three decades cloistered in the mountains, I have FINALLY mastered this weapon! With it my kensei by my side, you, oh foolish overlord, shall stand no chance!"
Combat begins
BBEG gets FUCKIN' BLASTED.
"Just as I said. Well faught, mighty foe, but you stood no chance against my Monasterial Mastery."
Dwarf Artificer:"... Ya still owe me fifty gold for da gun ye know."
@@curnott6051 Elven Monk: **Pretending not to know Dwarvish* "I know I know, that still only counts as one."
As the discussion about ranged Monks has gone on, the more I've been convinced that it's the best way to play a Monk. I imagine a Monk sniper running up the side of a building to set up shots on the roof, or running up a tree and hanging from a branch by his legs. This strategy mitigates the low AC issue, takes advantage of wallrunning in combat, and even lets you make frequent use of Slow Fall.
A Cleric dip (War or Forge Domains seem like the best options) provides the spellcasting feature, allowing a Shadow Monk to pick up Eldritch Adept (Devil's Sight) for Darkness shenanigans. Aside from the usual Advantage this combo offers, a Shadow Monk can also freely teleport within their own Darkness at Monk 6.
An archer Shadow Monk seems really good in Tiers 1 and 2, on par with half-casters. In higher tiers, I'd expect true half-casters to pull ahead, but I'd bet this Monk still has an edge over non-caster martials, with maybe the exception of Echo Knight.
I was worried this was going to be an April fools joke but this could be helpful for my new warforged shadow monk I'm getting ready to play
Peace Cleric!? This is all an April Fool's Joke on Treantmonk, isn't it?
Peace Cleric is well established as a strong dip, granting essentially Aid for free. Monks already have the wisdom, so it'd be easy to weave in.
For any Monk who does not want to use a gun (or can’t), there is the Mobile feat which further increases speed, makes Dashes remove the cost of difficult terrain, and most importantly remove the risk of opportunity attacks if you attack someone, hit or miss.
It does cost a feat, which does not help the MAD case of the Monk, and Gunk is probably still better due to the power of range, but this is an option.
Mounts give you free action disengage and insane movement extremely cheaply
Mobile is bad, do not do this people. Buy mounts.
you may have bested me in the art of karate so far, but you have yet to see my best move..
GUN!
It's here. FINALLY
Haven't watched the video yet, but didn't treantmonk debunk the gunk?
We're not really saying conflicting things. I pointed out that an archery monk doesn't do great damage if damage is all you do if you use my assumptions. PT is saying that the damage is good enough if you can combine it with facilitating surprise on enemies.
look at the date
If you play with 4 combats per short rest and can never work out the AC of your targets, yes.
i mean....You may as well play a ranger with crossbow expert. You'd get pass without traces. If you want mobility take ritual caster and learn
phantom steed
yeah, like any class can do better than monk at any situation, the only really good feature monks have is stunning strike, in which ranged monks can't do without going into melee.
@@luiiz2138 which sadly there are much better control spells out there, Hideous Laughter, Hold Person, hell, even Levitate that targets the same save, CON! And if you levitate a melee creature the spell ends up being “Summon Piñata” that’s harder to save because you’re not a MAD class 😭
Also, Mind Sliver exist. Well, I guess this cantrips would be great for stunning strike…
I have a player right now who is kind of running this build, only a little different and a bit suboptimal (kensei). However, we were thinking about getting her the eldrich claw tattoo so that she could turn that ability on and then use flurry of blows from 15 feet away, giving her 4 attacks at 4th level: two with the gun (one with ki fueled strike) and two more for 2d4+10 +2d6 damage. SUre that's once per day, but when it happens I think it will do great damage.
Going to build this but due to how im gonna multi class I will only have 3 feats for a long time. So I start out with alert lvl 1. Should I pick up sharpshooter level 4 and gunner at 8 or bump dex and then gunner?
lol this is the build im running now except my monk uses a concealed pistol and just shoots people in the back of the head. cheers :D
a-april fools?
I love the Monk/Rouge build. Ultra stealthy, awesome mobility, and overall a lot of fun, especially with the Way of Shadow.
I'm a little late, but I'd love if you make a video looking over the different monk subclasses, even if it might be a different kind of video then you normally do on your channel I think it would be incredibly interesting
I'm glad that someone is finally pointing out this build and we can get past the meme that monks are irredeemably bad
I think monks are bad if you're short rest constrained (like Treantmonk assumes with his 4 combats per SR).
If you have your resources and don't need to worry about spending them then they can be quite good.
I find it funny how different your take to the gunk is so different to Treantmonks
Optimization would be kind of boring if everyone agreeed.
Indeed
Treantmonk was mostly focused on a pure monk build. Even in his gunk case, you abandon ship after a few levels and dip into several other classes.
Question: would Rune Knight work in place of Battlemaster? Stone Rune and Fire Rune give some nice CC and damage, and Giant's Might lets you bump one of your attacks that hit by 1d6, and it isn't limited to a melee weapon.
Psi Warrior would be fun, but that's stat hell with it needing a decent int.
The way I see it, instead of fighter 1 after monk 5 you get ranger 2 to get the archery feature which also gives the favoured foe optional feature and not only some smites but also the hunters mark spell and another level nets gloom stalker or go rogue 1 for even more damage dice, or even fighter to pick up that sweet superiority dice for whatever you're having trouble with at level 8-9. With your turn being 3 attacks at 1d12(base)+1d6(hunters mark) and also a +2 to attack rolls, I think ranger 2 is the better move after monk 5 and you only have to wait 1 more level for the +2 to ranged. Either that or with a feat you pick up hunters mark but that means you only get 1 use a day. Either way, hunters mark would be great here. From there, rogue assassin 3 for free crits in surprise round, and your first one has +2d6 damage stapled to it, which also multiplies on a crit, the other 2 levels in fighter for superiority dice and the other stuff. From there pick up asi or feats for the next couple levels? Dunno, maybe the rest in fighter or rogue. Maybe level 5 in fighter and rogue which leaves you with 1 level left and you can spend it on fighter for the last class asi or put it somewhere else.
It's a fairly modular build, slotting things in when you need them instead of having a clear trail to follow. Actually quite similar to real monks who each follow their own path to reach enlightenment.
Ironically enough, from what I’ve heard, monks are the most powerful they’ve ever been, as they’ve been downright trash in every previous edition that included them.
3.5 monk was an excellent 2 level dip so long as you didn't care about paying the xp penalty for multiclassing.
Full monks weren't great, but if you took a level of barbarian for pounce, 2 levels of monk, and then 17 levels of a psionic class and the tashalatora feat that let you add psionic levels to monk abilities, you made an excellent monk.
The only thing that it took to make Monks decent was *a literal gun.*
...And putting most of your levels in another class.
You can say that to every martial really.
@@PackTactics I would say most other martial classes are functional enough on their own.
Though I won't deny the application of available firearms can sure make them better!
@@amulrei8149 This works with a hand crossbow too btw but then you have to start fighter 1 and then progress as a monk from there. This also works with Kensei and maybe mercy but no one has looked at mercy proper yet.
never takin showers cause i love this gunk
So if I'm understanding ki-fueled attack correctly, I could use a ki point to use flurry of blows as my bonus action, and thanks to that, I get to make an additional attack during my bonus action, thus I can potentially make 5+ attacks per round?
We have a monk doing this but with Longbow and Kensei. Allowing them to spend a Ki during attack without needing a miss.
We have some players that like failing stealth checks so it sounds like Kensei was the right choice for our group.
Kensei is the better choice imo. Pack tactics massively overvalues how effective PWT is in actual gameplay. its not a surprise round generator.
@@Apfeljunge666 I don't actually see it. Looking at kensai in the context of this build, the only relevant feature is being able to spend ki to do 1d6 more damage on a single attack per turn. You're already taking fighter for archery so the proficiency feature doesn't matter and you're already using your bonus action for attacks so the "use a bonus action for an extra 1d4 damage" will only have extremely niche uses... unless I'm missing something.
@@kevingriffith6011 Ki-fueled strikes. Use your bonus action to make another attack with your bow.
@@SybilantSquid Yeah. That's something all the monks get, not just kensai. In fact, that's the reason I'm not factoring their "spend a bonus action for 1d4 extra damage per attack this turn" ability.
Kobold already said that focused aim will be the source of your spent ki for this bonus action attack. This *does* mean that you'll be able to get your bonus action attack on a hit... but with two attacks and sharpshooter, are you really hitting all your attacks every turn without spending ki? I admit, this raises your potential maximum damage and makes your bonus action attack more reliable, but I still don't know if it's worth losing the utility.
Edit: had to do a few edits to refine my points because I was being a dum-dum and not catching your actual meaning.
@@kevingriffith6011 Kensei allows you to spend Ki during your attack round when you don't miss.
There's also a bunch more irrelevant benefits in tables that don't use Firearms, like ours.
It should be noted that even with Pass Without Trace some DM's will rule that a creature with direct line of sight to you sees you anyway.
This ruling is RAW, even if it isn't always fun.
Similarly, there are often ways to break this
Hey Kobold! Is there any way you can cover damage dealing features like the Cruelty Feat or Dark Gift: Touch of Death and see if there's any possible way to make them viable?
Well, this video is a godsend to me, because I've been trying to make a build work for me.
The idea is a "World's Best Archer" Build. Backstory aside, the Character as a whole is just "I want to be the best Archer."
I was thinking in Arcane Archer DELUXE (Meaning Arcane Archer + Martial Adept + Superior Technique for 3 Maneuvers and 2 Superiority Dice)
But... Didn't know what to finish it up with. 9 Levels in Kensei Monk was one of my Ideas, but now I can Consider Shadow Monk as well.
(Other considerations were Arcane Trickster Rogue and Battle Smith, but those feel too magicky for a Build that wants to focus on BEING the best Archer through training and Expertise)
I'm really having trouble trying to finish the build, so i would like to have some help.
I have some fairly complex thoughts about the idea of this build, especially at low level, but it's basically a relevant for me. In period in almost 15 years of playing DND I have never DMed or been in a party that had a DM that had firearms as a part of the campaign
Strange. I see a lot of guns actually. But to be honest, that makes the game very fun because my experience is vastly different from yours, you know?
Monks may be underpowered in optimization, but man can they wreck ass in non-optimized parties… in my game, the monk player is definitely the strongest character to deal with in combat, and she’s playing way of the four elements, which is considered a bad subclass…
Monks have such little reliance on subclasses, everything important is in the base class.
The ability to be anywhere they need and extra attacks make them surprisingly good at control
So essentially, the best way to play a monk is to abandon the idea of a monk and play a PF1 gunslinger
I think the baseline table alone on a t short would be good merchandise
Hm, sounds not so valuable to use ki for other things than PWT unless high level full monk tbh. Doesn't really sound like this is any special. I do support this as a supportive character. Calculating dpr on the other classes using equal weapon just doesn't make this shine in any way :\
But keep mind a multiclassed monk will not be able to use PWT AND ki for precision so I just dont see the possibility to use any monk features here really. And will so little ki, let's not use it to calculate damage like we had precision because then there are no other ki features useful anyway. Are we also using it to attack with bonus action? And every miss? Like we're burning 1-2 ki per turn minimum. Nah I dont like this, it doesn't outperform any other great bow build really and ALL of it's abilities narrowed down into ki >_<
But hey you get to wear a monk toga and still be kind of armoured. Nice.
BM --> GS in particular is a strong bow user. But even just a straight fighter is a strong bow user.
Oh yay, wow, another sharpshooter build… I love that the meta on damage completely revolves around GWM and SS, it makes builds so varied and diverse.
WotC's fault for not making a feat like them for every source of damage
My -5/+10 improvised weapon apple pie shooter will be the new meta!
Always has been.
This is why I never play martials anymore. Or if I do, I simply don't optimize and just try some nonsense instead.
I mean at a certain point you can argue that all martial builds are just rolling dice to see if you hit then rolling damage.
The fun part is the flavor you build around the characters and how you use additional class features to do things other than damage and help your team. Flavor is free, even if you take gwm or sharpshooter you don't have to use a great weapon or a bow.
It really gets quite depressing and rather boring. Nearly anything which can't use either SS or GWM can't compete. Once you have SS/GWM, you need bonus action attack.
I like Treantmonk's homebrew: all Attack Action attacks can use -5/+10, but you'd need the relevant feat to get it on bonus attacks or at other timings. Now, all weapons have solid baseline damage, so the marginal gain of SS+CBE or GWM+PAM is a lot lower.
For martials totally.
But druid and cleric and warlock all beat this easily and none of them use SS.
As a note for anyone wanting to take this build goblin is a great pick for race +2 dex +1 con, and they gain a constant disengage or hide as a bonus action. Fury of the small gives a 1/rest small damage bonus. Yes you don't start with the gunner feat but you got 4 levels to get a firearm and take the feat this shouldn't be to hard. Then go shadow monk, this lets you not need ki to get away from enemies as well as doing your level as damage when you crit as well as being small sized but getting a 30 ft move speed.
Quick suggestion.
8th level, pointbuy, all official content, restriction on buying magic items(+1/+2 weapon, and +1/+2 ammunition available).
Straight shadow monk or monk5/gloomstalker3?
also, if a hunting rifle(2d10, but reload5(need action/bonus action to reload)) is available, is it better than a musket?