Classic Doctor Who | S22 - The Two Doctors - Part One | Reaction
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- Опубліковано 16 гру 2024
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Your reaction to the opening was exactly mine, down to the "Why just Jamie? Where's Zoe?" After the heartbreak of War Games, it sparks such joy seeing Pat and Frazer back. That's why regardless of any issues this story remains in a special little place within my heart.
Love this one. Not only do we got the Second Doctor and Jamie, but we get Servalan from Blake's 7
It’s amazing how well Pat and Frazer just slip back into the role after so many years. You can tell how much friends they were off camera just by their interactions .
They work great opposite Six and Peri as well, which was awesome
I think Colin wanted to do essentially what Peter Capaldi did. Start off a little brash and mellow as the seasons went on. He had ambitions to beat Tom Bakers record. So, he was doing a thing with his portrayal. Watching him again has given me a renewed appreciation of his Doctor though. He was different and alien. I think as fans we can become a bit too attached to what we believe the Doctor should be. We need that challenged occasionally. Colin did that.
loved it when Pat turned up without an anniversary...it was proof that anybody could show up at any time
"We're goin' on bloody oliday"- Joking aside that was JNT's intention. He put his own money into the foreign location shoots as a way of treating his cast to some fun changes of pace every couple of years. This came up in the making of of Big Finish's Season 27 reconstruction.
"Sylvester: Yes I had heard about John's little team holidays. Paris, Lanzarote, Seville... we were due to get one in Season 27...
Sophie: (Slipping into character slightly) Oh awesome, where were we going?
Sylvester: Afghanistan
(Silence)"
I made a rather dark chuckle reading that.
@@kierenevans2521 It was only an audio interview but you could imagine Sophie's expression.
It's a shame the original location didn't work out, though Spain looked great!
This is one of those reactions I've been waiting to see, and Medusa's reaction to Doctor Two and Jamie delivered! Merry Christmas, Medusa.
Someone's probably mentioned this already but, all the continuity issues around the Second Doctor & Jamie in this story, and the five Doctors are explained by "Season 6b".
Basically, at the end of the war games the second doctor wasn't immediately forced to regenerate, but instead became an agent for the Celestial Intervention Agency - The Time Lord's equivalent of MI6. He spent years doing the Time Lords dirty work & later during that time he was allowed to recruit Jamie & Victoria to help him.
Then at some future point, the Time Lords completed his sentence and sent the Doctor back to earth at the beginning of spearhead from space with his memory wiped of the time he spent working for them.
This period of the Doctor's life has been expanded upon in original BBC Novels and Big Finish.
They are NOT explained by season 6b. There is no such thing as season 6b, that is just a stupid fan theory. It is NOT canon. The very first scene in this story clearly states this is set while Victoria was still travelling with them so how can it be set during this mythical season 6b? Big Finish gave a proper explanation of this in one of their Early Adventures stories.
@@Trev359 There is no "canon" apart from the canon you've decided on in your head.
Big Finish's stories or BBC Books can be retconned in a second if the producers of the show on TV decide to go in a different direction. Take Mary Shelley for example, or Human Nature being both a tenth and seventh Doctor adventure.
Yes Season 6b started out as fan fiction, but the BBC produced novels set within that era, so AFAIK it's effectively been canonized. Until at least, it's explicitly un-canonized by a TV adventure.
@@Trev359 1: The BBC has 6B on their website and 2: Big Finish just this past July released Beyond War Games which canonize 6B at least for Big Finish.
Jacqueline Pierce played a great villain in Blake's 7. She was a incredible actress.
It was wonderful to have Patrick back for one last time. He died suddenly 2 years after this at the age of 67. 😥
I was waiting to see how delighted you would be to see Patrick Troughton and Frazer Hines appear in the opening scene of the Two Doctors! Scripted by Robert Holmes - he also wrote the TV-tie-in novelisation for Target Books! Sontarans make a reappearance in Doctor Who. The wonderful Jacqueline Pearce as Chessene of the Franzine Grig, a technologically augmented Androugum, raised to mega-genius level. Location filming in Spain. As for Shockeye the chefs obsession with food in all of its varieties, I seem to remember reading that the Androgum species is one of Robert Holmes' humorous play on words, Androgum is an anagram of gourmand.
Its been decades but ive only just had the thought at how... the Androgums remind me of the Ogre Tribes from Warhammer Fantasy lol. A barbaric dim witted people who are obsessed with food of all kind, and eat basically everything sentient or not, willing or not. Hell Sockeye looks like a Ogre Man-eater mercenary lol with his foppish feathered hat and bandolier.
this story was originally going to be filmed in New Orleans-famous for its restaurants,thus the creation of the food-obseseed Androgums,but it proved much more convenient to film in Spain
I love the villain Shockeye played brilliantly by John Stratton. The androgums are chilling creations. It’s great to see the second Doctor and Jamie again. Merry Christmas to you.
Who I only realised the other month I'd seen before as Captain Potter in the BBC version of Quatermass and the Pit. Of course there being a 27 year gap between those two shows probably helps to why it took me so long to realise.
Love The Two Doctors, has two of my favourites, Patrick Troughton and Jaquline Pearce. And as ever Pat is just brilliant.
I believe the set where the cliffhanger takes place was from top of the pops haha
"These guys and their balls" 😆
Wasn't the ball to be like a shuttle, with the main ship never designed so the ball became standard since 1975?
“ what are smiling at you hairy legged highlander “
The 'Climbing frame' from this story is part of the Top of the Pops set that they borrowed.
*Gets popcorn*. Just waiting for the Season 6B people to turn up.
Hahahah
Hellooooooooooooo
Some people dont like the season 6b idea?.. never understood why personally.
@@NZBigfoot some people get really defensive, aggressive, and weird about it is all, on both "it happened" and "it didn't happen" sides.
@@SkageXL5 Yeah. I don't have anything against it personally, and it does explain away a lot oddities quite efficiently, but it also comes with a lot of drama on either side. Hence the popcorn lol.
The parts in Spain was supposed to be filmed in New Orleans,Louisiana but the funding fell through.
The wonderful Jaqueline Pierce, Servalan from Blake’s 7 (you need to watch that!)
"But, but... continuity issues!" Don't care. Just so great to see Patrick and Frazer again.
Ditto.
Season 6b too easily fixes anything. Holmes did mix up 2 and 3, which I never realized until after seeing 2's surviving episodes. Plus, 6b or not, "time can be rewritten" is a good reason and the story plays its themes well enough.
Needing wire. You can get it out of Peri’s bra 🤣🤣
Not, all bra's have wires...men, and women know this ;) I can't imagine the BBC allowing the character of Peri to turn around, or go behind a screen, and return holding her bra, trying to get the underwire our from the cup' structure. I doubt actress Nicola would agree with the scene either. The comment, MC, made us laugh!
Jacqueline Pearce was awesome as arch-enemy and returning arch-villain Servalan in Blake,s Seven which should really have run for longer than three years and four series.
I've been waiting for all the young reactors to get to this one. Jamie's reappearance is the longest payoff in the series' history. I so want to see him back again as an grizzled old laird with a million grandkids.
I'd watch anything with Jacqueline Pearce in it. Always Servalan and always fabulous.
Love seeing pat and frazier back but what l hate about this is the arrogance of the timelords, they can use timetravel but not other people.
"hes got no trepidation'... thats the 6th Doctor in a nut shell.
Love this story. One of my favourites, but very controversial.
Another case where basic continuity is thrown out the window. A silver-haired 2nd Doctor fully looking the 15+ years older than he was when he regenerated, partnered with a clearly older Jamie, openly talking about being a Time Lord and on an unofficial mission for them contradicts everything we know about his era. Any suggestion that this is because the Time Lords secretly delayed his regeneration is nonsensical because a) it isn't explained in the story (which would have been simple to do) and b) the reference to dropping Victoria off clearly dates this as happening a long time prior. If you want to imply that the Time Lords used the Doctor in this way then why not work it into the script and swap Victoria out for Zoe? It's just really slack writing.
Personally I take it that Season 6B is way more complicated than we think. 😀
But truthfully I don't really care because Two and Jamie are back for a last hurrah
This still isn't a patch on the continuity snarls in the revival. Who was that kid at the end of "Listen", again?
The great thing about Doctor Who is that so much happens off screen. How do you know that the times lords didn’t dip into the 2nd Doctors time line and manipulate events so Victoria could be dropped off and Jamie Could be privy to the Doctors history. This was after all a secret mission, so secret the times lord can wipe it from their memories afterwards. Not, unlike events of the Doctors life in the Flux. They may appear older because they may have lived longer and had many unseen adventures for many years. The Timelords could pop them back afterwards to there original linear timeline. See…solved it…that’s the thing. You can make anything fit, if you want too.
You're expecting Phillip Hinchcliffe's script editor, re-writer of The Brain Of Morbius and writer of The Deadly Assassin to have ever given a shit about long-term Doctor continuity. You're adorable.
I think the most accurate answer is probably that Robert Holmes did it to piss off Ian Levine.
From the 2nd doctor's point of view there last adventure was fury from the deep.
It would actually have been slightly before that as they were talking about getting back to Victoria.
Deborah Watling, Victoria, could not do it because of her scheduling. She was working in may areas.
Jacqueline Pearce, Servalan from "Blake's 7"...
This is a story that, on the one hand, typifies all the worst excesses of the JNT era. The setting was decided as New Orleans, then it wasn't, then you had Sontarans, then the 2nd Doctor gets involved (opening a can of worms about the Time Lords and their motives that actually feeds into the last series). But if you can overlook this ladling on of cream and cherries to sweeten the cake, there's actually some nice business going on. First and foremost is the return of one of the greatest pairings in the show's history: Patrick Troughton and Frazer Hines. They might just as well have been locked in a broom cupboard for 15 years, because the spark between them is still obvious. It's far from the best script Robert Holmes ever produced (and he disliked intensely having so much of the content dictated to), but time has been kinder than perhaps we had any right to expect back then.
Time has also been kind to Colin Baker, because we know now from the input he tried to give that even at the time he understood his part better than either JN-T or Eric Saward did, and proven himself as the right sort of Doctor time and time again when handed much better material by Big Finish. One can't help wondering if Saward was subconsciously or inadvertantly sabotaging the Baker era or had just plain given up by this point, given that he felt Colin was badly miscast. Plus that coat is the perfect encapsulation of how brash, loud and wrong this period is far more than anything Colin does, because it makes the Doctor impossible to fit naturally into a normal scene and so everything else around it is distorted and made more garish and loud just to fight for any presence or attention.
I think that Peri would have jumped ship ages ago!!
So since I see she's past episode 10 of B5 on Patreon AND that she's reacted to my favorite xmas movie, Hogfather. I think it'll be worth it to throw a few bucks her way so I can binge those episodes with her.
Medusa Cascade the Moth Killer!
I love this one, my two favourite Doctors ❤
One of my favorites! Loved your reaction!
As he mentioned his 'exhile', I assume 'this' 2nd Doctor is an alternate to Pertwee's hence, the grey hair. Best line so far? "Who are these guys with their balls?"
Look up "season 6b", a lot might have happened between War Games and Spearhead!
@@SkageXL5 I'm sorry but season 6b is just a stupid fan theory, It is not canon. They had just left Victoria and were intending to go back to her so how can it be set during this mythical season 6b? Look up Big Finish's Early Adventures for a proper explanation that works.
@@Trev359 It *is* a stupid fan theory, you're 100% right, and that's why it's so great.
I'm not sure what you meant about the Victoria thing, The Doctor leaves companions all the time, it's the picking them up part that's the problem! :D
Doctor Who is big enough for everyone to see it their own way, that's part of the greatness.
I, for example, count The New Adventures as real, but not the BBC EDA's, it doesn't effect anyone else, so there's no issue. We all do it! :D
@@Trev359 Terrance Dicks himself was happy enough to use the season 6b in some of the novels, Players and World Game spring to mind.
Shame this story messes up continuity but I do love seeing Pat and Frazer together again.
My theory is that before sending Jamie home and the Doctor off to exile they decided to send them on a mission or two then wiped their memories.
Kind of wish they’d dyed Patrick Troughton’s hair black for this ( I believe they did for ‘The Five Doctors’ ) but still great to see him and Jamie back.
The reason I'd heard (and only recently) is it'd have been too hot during location filming. Makes sense as it would be like 100F in Seville...
he didnt want it, he wanted to look older
Love This story
Best Colin story
Hope your holiday went well!
Happy Xmas xx
You still got that PO box?
Hmm. Peri taking her bra off, so the Doctor can use the wire to trip the door. I like the way you think! 😂
These Sontarans were terrible, I will never understand what possessed JNT to change the design of them.
Way too tall, for one thing!
Weren’t they pretty much the same in the fourth doctor era? I know what you mean, I prefer the strax sontaran myself, but eh.. even chibbers has gone back to that style.
@@tmofee These were just too tall and kind of thin for Sontarans
Probably the weirdest looking Sontarans ever to appear in the show.
Not as bad as the ones in Invasion of Time.
@@nigelwalker6103 It's a close run thing.
Season 6B
Haha, there's something that irritated the vast majority of people, that's why the ratings plummeted and it was temporarily axed. I still find it hard to re-watch any stories from his era.
Welcome to Robert Holmes' unofficial contribution to Doctor Who. SERIES 6b. Could this be where Ruth fits in?
There is NO season 6b. It's a nonsensical fan theory that does not explain this. Victoria left in season 5 not season 6.
@@Trev359 thevDoctor has been on the run from the Time Lords for 6 season. But he has their devices fitted to his console? He is chatty enough with them to go on secret missions? Did you even see The War Games? He is terrified of them.
I'm rather mixed on this story. Lots of good bits but some very bad and it's probably a bit too long.
I hate this story.
Too long, extremely dull. Such a shame Troughton and Hines returned for one of the worst stories in classic who. It might give Leisure Hive, Colony in Space and The Mutants a run for their money as the worst of classic who. All 4 are definitely the 4 worst stories
Also does not fit anywhere as the only times 2 and Jamie were alone, it led directly into the next story which each introduced Victoria and Zoe respectively. They needed to include one of then aswell or at a push Ben and Polly as well.
Actually this is set after The War Games just prior to the Doctor's Forced Regeneration into Jon Pertwee.
Yes it's a Ret-Con but the Time Lords did a bit of timey-wimey jiggery pokery and sent The Doctor and Jamie on a bunch of Unsanctioned missions including this one to Dastari.
It does mess with Five Doctors and the Jamie and Zoe Phantoms scene in that but again Timey-Wimey Jiggery Pokery from the Time Lords.
@@franohmsford7548 how does it mess up five doctors ? Jamie’s mind was re-wiped. According to the audios during this period the second doctor taught Jamie some tricks to avoid it later on.
@@franohmsford7548 I believe the order of stories in the 2nd doctors perspective is war games .. the three doctors, the five doctors and the two doctors. During the five doctors he was companionless.
Agreed. Just another harebrained idea from the JNT era, bringing back an all time great Doctor and planting him in a rotten story.
"Worst story in Classic? Hold my beer..." Underworld.