Colin and Patrick were a wonderful double act at conventions, often heckling each other light heartedly. I had the good fortune of meeting them at a one day convention in Minneapolis back in 1986.
Jacqueline Pearce was in Hammer films The Plague of the Zombies & The Reptile. She’s best known for playing Servalan in the science fiction hit Blake’s 7 1978-1981 a BBC TV show you should both react to. I love the character of Shockeye played brilliantly with such relish by John Stratton who was also in the Hammer film Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell and an episode of UFO. As a child I found Shockeye creepy but as an adult I find him hilarious. There’s a lot of great dark humour in this story. I think it’s underrated. Loved your sequence at the start using The Search for Spock 😂.
Character Options who make the Doctor Who Action Figures did make two variants of the Second Doctor from this story. The first one was included in the 13 Doctors set from 2016 and the "Androgum" variant was in the The Two Doctors set from 2019.
I won't argue with any of your points. But this is a bit of guilty pleasure of mine, It was the first 6th Doctor story I watched. I love the music of these episodes especially. (Also the Star Trek III edit caught me off guard 😂)
When I traveled in Spain, summer of 1990, five years after this story was broadcast, I enjoyed being there. Years later, Nicola Bryant made a documentary, traveling back around Seville locations (independent project) that was then featured on the Bly-ray box set for this season. Reports than the whole cast had fun being in Spain, except for the actors in Sontaran garb, who endured heat.
No, I think this is mostly Holmes. Saward seems to be deferential to Holmes in general and the novelisation by Holmes has the majority of the structurally issues and elements to this.
Two and Jamie are in the midst of "Season 6B" for this story, the period between the last time we see Troughton on War Games and the actual regeneration into The Third Doctor. All of Troughton's Classic era reappearances come from this period, where he is running missions for the Time Lord Celestial Intervention Agency (CIA) until his exile kicks in. Sometimes he gets assistance from his companions, who are taken out of their time streams to help him before being returned to their proper places. This Season 6B era is expanded on in comics and audios. Anyways, this is my absolute favorite story from the classic era. I love every hammy bit of it.
Robert Holmes wrote this episode, the man who wrote the 5th doctors final episode last season, should have stop there. TBF I think JNT had alot of mandates for him with this episodes and made him rewrite this episode a few times. For example it was meant to be the 3rd doctor here "The Doctor who did missions for the Timelords" and Holmes wasn't sure which one that was or how this was originally suppose to be set in New Orleans.
Not possible for him to be running missions for the Time Lords before meeting Zoe. Way more likely that the Time Lords grant him his companions for a limited time during this post War Games era
The two doctors is my favourite sixth doctor story I like it because it has got two doctors in its Patrick Troughton last apprentice of the second Doctor and It is set before they meet Zoe
Jackie Pearce who played Chessene was awesome when she, played arch-enemy and recurring arch-villain Servalan in science fiction series Blake,S Seven and awesomely well too I thought Patrick and Colin were awesome together in the 2 Doctors.
Love the opening! Spot on it all goes up in flames! Holmes / Saward freely admitted they made a mistake in confusing Doctors 2 & 3 as to who was on missions for the Time Lords. So this causes the whole “season 6-b” thing of having No.2 doing missions for them before having memory wiped, regenerated and sent to Earth. Messy. Such an opportunity missed. It came about by Pat saying how much he enjoyed coming back after The Five Doctors.
Are we forgetting that in The Five Doctors, most of the incarnations don't interact with each other until the last ten minutes? Other than Fake Hartnell and Five, that is.
Just watched it recently and the thing I liked about this story was the cast actually worked really well together. Perry always seemed to me like she has no character reason for even traveling with the Doctor, as she clearly doesn't like it. But Jamie with the Sixth Doctor were actually a really good pairing, surprisingly, and I could actually see an entire season with just them two. Even the Second Doctor and Peri seemed a better match. Also, seeing the Second Doctor just fitting in perfectly made me miss his stories, he's so good!
This wasn’t meant to be after The War Games, it was meant to be somewhere in ep. 10 of that serial, between the Doctor arriving on Gallifrey and the Time Lords sending Jamie and Zoe home and sentencing him to exile. The Doctor was instructed to run errands for the Time Lords and this was one of them. I can’t remember the reason for Zoe being replaced by Victoria though.
@@franohmsford7548 Not “clearly”, Jamie knows who the Time Lords are in The Two Doctors, but doesn’t in The War Games, that’s why he asks “Well who are they, then?” and the Doctor replies “They’re my own people, Jamie.”. I think it was just before or just after he sends off that box containing the information about what was happening and seeking their help.
@@stickytapenrust6869 That's a non-argument. The Time Lords went back and took The Doctor and Jamie out of time, it only makes sense that they would wipe their memories after the mission was over....What better way to maintain plausible deniability than The Doctor not even remembering he'd ever been there. This is strongly implied as having happened anyway given that Colin didn't remember being there. - Pat's line about having earned the statenheim remote control can be ignored as The Doctor Lies....Especially if he has an opportunity to get one over one of his other selves :) - Then there is again that line about Victoria - Why mention Victoria at all if they were taken from The War Games and why would The Time Lords take The Doctor and Jamie from The War Games but not Zoe only to THEN go back and grab Victoria from wherever she was?
@@franohmsford7548 “When the BBC started printing excerpts from the Guide on their website, it crossed over from fanon into essentially BBC "policy". As of 2011, "season 6B" remains a part of the official BBC episode guide. The full text of the official position on 6B is more extensive, but the core of the idea goes something like this: Rather than undergoing the regeneration shown starting at the end of The War Games, the Second Doctor was recruited to work for the Celestial Intervention Agency, a clandestine Time Lord organisation shown to exist in The Deadly Assassin. During this time, the Second Doctor regained Jamie and Victoria as companions, acquired a Stattenheim remote control device to summon his TARDIS and undertook an unknown number of missions, including that depicted in The Two Doctors. Eventually, the Doctor's association with the CIA ended for reasons not known and his full War Games sentence was executed at the beginning of Spearhead from Space.”
This has a good solid plot (apart from its continuity) but it is padded and streeeetched! However, the next one is the turkey in this season! It misfires in every way, on a par with Twin Dilemma!
The Expanded Universe has given many explanations for where this takes place in the 2nd Doctor's timeline. Some say it's Season 6B, after The War Games. The one I'm familiar with is the Big Finish Audio "Black Hole", which puts it during Season 5. What happens in that story is they encounter the Monk (though they don't know it's him) and another Time Lord. They end up getting sent on a mission to go see Dastari, with some modifications done to the TARDIS to explain why it can travel accurately, and why it has the 6th Doctor's console room. Victoria stays behind with the Monk. The idea to bring back Troughton came about because of The Five Doctors, and him wanting to do more. Frazer Hines also wanted to do more. For The Five Doctors, he'd only been able to get 1 day off from the soap opera he was on at the time. Now, 2 years later, he was available to film a whole story. I love this story, honestly. Just rewatched it before this video, and I still love it. Best of 6's run for me. Maybe just because I love Troughton and Jamie. Sadly Troughton's last appearance in Doctor Who. He died in 1987 while in America for a convention. In fact, we have a ton of footage of him at the convention the day before. Jacqueline Pearce is most famous for Blake's 7 I believe, although I've never watched that. She also did a bunch of the War Doctor audios as a fellow Time Lord. All the stuff inside the villa and the restaurant are all sets. You can tell because it looks visually different. For Seasons 1-22, location work was done on 16mm film, and studio stuff was shot on video tape, there's a distinct difference in the way the footage looks. Season 23 onwards, everything moved to videotape, as the technical limitations of video were no longer a concern. A shame, cause the 16mm film stuff can be remastered in true HD. The Davison era on Blu-Ray looks gorgeous as a result.
I recommend Blake's 7. The first series is a little hit and miss at times. Series 2 and 3 are good/great for different reasons, series 4 has its moments. Personally I prefer Season 6b as the explanation. Terrance Dicks himself (co-writer of War Games) was happy enough to use it several times in his novels.
The only problem with the "Series 6b" theory... The Five Doctors also falls into 6b. In which, Pat Troughton says that Jamie and Zoe must be illusions, as they had their memories erased. This means he is post-War Games, travelling alone. So, it's possible he went to get Jamie, between T5D and T2D Or causality alters past adventures and events, except fixed points. Or the Pandorica. Or the Big Bang 2. Or the Flux. Or Sutekh😂😂😂😂
It’s Great to see Pat and Fraser one last time, but my criticism with Two Doctors is after part two the Sontarans are pushed aside and have the Androgums steal the spotlight. I got this story along with all the other Sontaran stories in a boxset back in 2008. I like the filming location in this story in seville, but it wasn’t fun for the actors playing the Sontarans. They must have been cooking in those suits in the hot weather definitely. Also sadly this is the last story in the classic series to be filmed abroad. Btw anybody feeling peckish?
I do have alot of love for this story, mainly because its one of the first classic story's i watched but its not the best. I think with the padding (Especially in Part 3) its like the walk around in City of Death times 10 which can be very boring in some momens. Its such a shame as well because there's alot of good things in this story like the soundtrack and the overall quality of its look but its dragged down by it being too long and too empty.
Father's Day, is technically a multi Doctor story. Briefly, there are 2 Ecclestons on screen, at the same time. There have also been 8 more since you made this....Stolen Earth/Journey's End, The Name Of The Doctor, Deep Breath, Twice Upon A Time, Fugitive Of The Judoon, Once Upon Time, The Power Of The Doctor and The Giggle. Does The Valeyard or The Dreamlord, count?
They are Sontarans because apart from The Daleks and The Master the Sontarans are the only Who Villains specifically shown as being already enemies of The Time Lords!
Tbf I'm mixed on Attack of the Cybermen. Good first ep but the second is just messy with random continuity thrown in. The novelisation is slightly better. It definitely improves somethings but other things are still bad. Oscar's death is still in it for instance (which didn't happen in the original script). 39:40 The thing is, the novelisation is the only one written by Robert Holmes and there's not really much different structurally wise from the tv story. There were issues in the writing process with it originally supposed to be set (and filmed) in New Orleans and there being a lot of dialogue playing on the differences between English and American. This then fell through with Seville substituted. Jacqueline Pearce is pretty much giving the same performance as Servalan from Blake's 7, her most well known role. I recommend it with it having a lot of connective tissue with DW (writers, directors and actors). Shockeye is played by John Stratton who I know most from the BBC version of Quatermass and the Pit where he plays Captain Potter, a very different role. Dastari is played by Laurence Payne who was Johnny Ringo in the Gunfighters and Morix in the Leisure Hive. I like the sontaran march music in this. In the novels by Terrance Dicks, the sentence at the end of the War Games is retconted to death rather than exile. The events of World Game lead to them using him as an agent of the Timelords, with this one set immediately after. Big Finish have their own explanation. 48:10 I don't particularly care for the 50th. I dislike the bringing back the Timelords/saving Gallifrey arc.
1) I'm not as down on this story as you are, but your opening to this video really made me laugh. And realizing you've got Timelash next makes me laugh even harder. 😂 2) Patrick Troughton had a ball appearing in The Five Doctors and especially enjoyed seeing Fraser Hines the day he came in to film his Jamie cameo. The two expressed their interest in appearing in the show together again "soon" and John Nathan Turner thought, "Do we really have to wait another ten years to make that happen?" - That's how the decision to make this story came about. 3) Robert Holmes had been the original choice to write The Five Doctors, but had ultimately given up after finding it too hard to make the story work with so many returning Doctors, companions and monsters to be squeezed in. When approached about writing this story, he decided to use the main plot idea from his Five Doctors script, "an alien race who wants mastery of time travel wants to dissect the Doctor to find his symbiotic nuclei" here. As you've seen, he still doesn't quite make it work. In the Five Doctors script, it was the Cybermen doing the dissecting and they had abducted all the Doctors (at the time) so they could keep trying if they didn't find it. 4) Both The Five Doctors and this do not jibe with the ending of The War Games. In The Five Doctors, Troughton's Doctor was able to steer the TARDIS to a specific time and place to see the Brigadier at the UNIT reunion, something he was unable to do in any of the televised stories prior to The War Games (the Time Lords repair the TARDIS navigational system in that story, though it still frequently goes wrong afterwards). He also realizes that the Jamie and Zoe he sees in the Dark Tower are fakes because he knows the Time Lords erased their memories, which happens in The War Games. In this story, the Doctor and Jamie are on a mission for the Time Lords, and they've dropped Victoria off somewhere, but aren't concerned about being able to go back and pick her up, which indicates the Doctor can successfully pilot the TARDIS. These discrepancies have given rise to the Season 6B theory. 5) The 6B theory is, since we didn't actually see Troughton turn into Pertwee in that story (the Doctor goes spinning off before we see him change) , he didn't actually regenerate at that time. Jamie and Zoe have their memories erased and are sent home, the Doctor is sentenced, but then, off screen the Celestial Intervention Agency (referenced in The Deadly Assassin) offers to commute the Doctor's sentence if he starts working for them. The Doctor agrees, it is at some point around here that the events of The Five Doctors happen. Later, realizing that the Doctor works better with companions along, the Time Lords allow him to retrieve Jamie (presumably with his memories restored) and Victoria (tired of living in the Harris's spare bedroom) and the events of The Two Doctors happen. Later still, when the Doctor starts to rebel, resenting always being controlled by the Time Lords, they decide to cancel their deal and make him go through with his regeneration and exile anyway, returning Jamie and Victoria to Earth and possibly doing some memory erasing again. Whew! 😅 6) The reason the discrepancies with The War Games exist in the first place is due to a lapse of memory on Robert Holmes part. He was thinking of Jon Pertwee always being sent on missions by the Time Lords and forgot that Troughton wasn't. Script Editor Eric Saward presumably didn't give enough of a shit to fix it. 7) This story was originally supposed to be filmed on location in New Orleans. Since Robert Holmes mainly thought of the many fabulous Cajun restaurants when he thought of New Orleans, he conceived of the Androgums as villains, a race obsessed with eating and food. Later, the setting was changed to Seville, I think because the prospect going to New Orleans to film proved to be more expensive than they anticipated, but they could afford Spain, which was much closer. 8) The origin of the name Androgum, which I believe you were speculating about in the reaction, is that it's an anagram of gourmand. Dastari is also an anagram for "a TARDIS". 9) Holmes was asked to put the Sontarans into the story as the production team wanted to bring them back, but as they weren't part of the original plot they're sort of shoe-horned in. 10) The problems that most fans have with this are the same ones you had, slow plotting, distaste for the Shockeye "cannibalism" stuff, under utilization of the Second Doctor, the pointless death of Oscar which hits the wrong note, the Sixth Doctor killing Shockeye with the cyanide, etc. With regards to the last, to be fair, the Doctor has actually killed lots and lots of people, this is just a bit more "hands on" than we usually see. A whole fleet of Ice Warriors being sent on an inescapable collision course with the sun is more abstract than actually seeing him wrestle Shockeye to the ground while holding a cyanogen soaked rag to his mouth and nose. (I have to confess though, that I really like his grim joke afterwards, "Your just desserts!" but it's more of a James Bond line than a Doctor Who. 11) Jacqueline Pearce, who plays Chessene, starred in the British sci-fi TV series Blake's 7 as Servalan. She was also in a couple of Hammer Horror movies, The Reptile (in which she's the titular monster), and The Plague of the Zombies, she's also appeared in lots and lots of other British TV shows, so one of those things may be why she seems so familiar. 12) The original title for this story was The Androgum Inheritance. It was changed to The Two Doctors in case viewers didn't notice that there are two Doctors in it.😂 13) At around the same time that this was made, Colin Baker and the two Sontaran actors appeared in character on an episode of the TV show Jim'll Fix It. The show, hosted by disc jockey and television emcee Jimmy Saville (he also hosted Top of the Pops, a show similar to American Bandstand), had young children writing in about things they wished they could do and the show would try to make them happen. A kid wanted to treat his favorite teacher to dinner in a posh restaurant, etc. One young Doctor Who fan wanted to meet Colin Baker and the show had him appear in a Doctor Who skit with Colin, fighting the Sontarans on the TARDIS set. Nicola Bryant wasn't available to appear, so Janet Fielding featured in the skit as Tegan. This has become a less charming story in retrospect as, following Saville's death, the public learned that he had been a pedophile who had sexually abused hundreds of young people for decades in his role as a television personality. He tended to prey more on girls than boys, so there's no evidence that I know of that the boy who appeared in the skit with Colin was victimized.
Excellent post. Re point 7, it was John Nathan-Turner who, after a holiday in New Orleans during Mardi Gras, suggested that it would be a good place to film a Doctor Who story on location, and he duly commissioned Robert Holmes to write one. This was intended to have been a co-production with a U.S. company, but the deal fell through. They eventually opted to set the story in Spain, which necessitated a rewrite from Holmes. On reflection, script-editor Eric Saward thought this might have been too much of an ask, especially at relatively short notice, which might explain at least some of the deficiencies in the final product.
Sticky: One of my favorite Beatles’ lyrics was “Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun… if the sun don’t come you get your tan by standing in the English rain…” ~ Dad
This story was written to be set in New Orleans but then the deal to film there fell through late in the day so the producer randomly chose Spain as it was easy to set up filming there - but this put writer Robert Holmes and script editor Eric Saward's noses out of joint.
"Dimensions in Time" is apparently canon according to Russell T. Davies. I think fans overthink this whole age thing of the Doctor and Jamie i don't think it was something that was never meant to be noticed or thought about i was never a fan of this whole Season 6b theory I think it's just fanfiction and fanwanky as far as I'm concerned after the Second Doctor did regenerate in "The War Games" and immediately got exiled to earth in "Spearhead From Space" and the Fugitive Doctor can't take place between there since the Doctor has already established his 13 incarnations with the Eleventh Doctor in "The Time of the Doctor" so I can't see how the Fugitive Doctor possibly fits in there she's either before Hartnell or is a future version of the Doctor. Also I don't think this takes place after "The War Games" since they mentioned Victoria some theories point out this takes place before "The Wheel in Space". I disagree about this being the worst story but I do agree about the Sontaran design.
She's complaining about fishing because she's BORED! The Doctor's doing something he likes whilst ignoring that she has literally nothing to do all day!
The Two Doctors was one of several stories from this era to provoke controversy over its depiction of violence. In 1985, Australasian Doctor Who Fan Club president Tony Howe criticised the murder of Oscar with a kitchen knife as being an instance of "sick, shock violence" that was present for "cheap shock value only". Patrick Mulkern of Radio Times awarded the serial two stars out of five, stating: "The Two Doctors wasn't dire but the actors and audience deserved better." In Doctor Who: The Complete Guide, Mark Campbell awarded The Two Doctors seven out of ten, describing it as "a Doctor Who version of Last of the Summer Wine as a sponsored by the Vegetarian Society". Jacqueline Pearce is best know for villain Servalan from "Blakes 7" a british sci fi i highly recommend you guys checking out for a future reaction. The reason Peri complains about fishing is because probaly for the same reason as you Alex she finds it boring personally i love fishing it helps eases the mind and gets you outside more.
It's not after The War Games - That's just a fan theory that's never made sense! The only possible time for this to be set is between The Web of Fear and The Wheel in Space as you're right....Zoe is NOT mentioned! The Time Lords went back in time to use the second Doctor as an agent and removed him and Jamie from their personal known timeline at that point possibly over and over again; wiping their memories after each mission as Colin doesn't remember doing that mission. Fraser and Pat may be older here but the characters they are playing are supposed to be the same age they were in The Web of Fear - Note that Jamie isn't treated like a middle-aged man by anyone!
It’s not just a fan theory. It’s accepted as canon by the BBC themselves. You know, those who actually make it, own it and therefore decide these things. “A theory grew from this book which was quickly embraced by fandom. Indeed, it eventually became "fanon". When the BBC started printing excerpts from the Guide on their website, it crossed over from fanon into essentially BBC "policy". As of 2011, "season 6B" remains a part of the official BBC episode guide. The full text of the official position on 6B is more extensive, but the core of the idea goes something like this: Rather than undergoing the regeneration shown starting at the end of The War Games, the Second Doctor was recruited to work for the Celestial Intervention Agency, a clandestine Time Lord organisation shown to exist in The Deadly Assassin. During this time, the Second Doctor regained Jamie and Victoria as companions, acquired a Stattenheim remote control device to summon his TARDIS and undertook an unknown number of missions, including that depicted in The Two Doctors. Eventually, the Doctor's association with the CIA ended for reasons not known and his full War Games sentence was executed at the beginning of Spearhead from Space.” tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Season_6B
@@stickytapenrust6869 The BBC has retconned Doctor Who many times so I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Again the big problem here is WHY Victoria rather than Zoe if this happened during the War Games sentencing? It makes absolutely zero sense as a fan theory and the BBC should NOT have adopted it as accepted canon....especially when the BBC is so laissez faire over canon in the first place!
@msford7548 It happened AFTER the War Games sentencing!!! Potentially CENTURIES AFTER for the Doctor! He's running missions for the Time Lords in The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors EXPLICITLY according to the script and ON HIS OWN, and here he is ALSO very clearly working on behalf of the Time Lords. At SOME POINT, they let him have some of his companions back, PROBABLY because he works better with friends around. Edit: Lest we forget, in The Five Doctors, Two already KNOWS that Jamie and Zoe have been mind-wiped by the Time Lords. Lest we forget, Jamie didn't hear of the Time Lords until War Games part 9. You don't have a leg to stand on.
You didn’t jinx it at all. This is an entertaining story. For the first time in ages I couldn’t disagree with you and your Dad more. 😞 yes continuity problems but the dynamic with the 6th and 2nd is good, just separated too long. I love the runaround in Seville. So next story has a very poor reputation but perhaps say nothing to your Dad and see what happens rather than preempting - I like a lot about the next episode 😊
It's a common misconception that Robert Holmes was vegetarian, which he wasn't, but he was concerned with animal welfare. In an interview to _Doctor Who Magazine_ in 1985, Holmes said: "‘[The Two Doctors] had this vegetarian theme running through it, although I’m not a vegetarian. The things we do to animals..." PS: I'm fully on-board with your reaction/review of this frankly dull and rambling story. A disappointing coda to end Frazer and Pat's fine contributions to Classic Who.
The problem with this story is the problem with the whole of season 22. At the point where they should have been writing well-plotted original stories whilst gently developing the character of the sixth doctor, they instead decided to make Doctor Who's greatest hits with a loud, bombastic new incarnation whose moral compass was haywire. The plan seemed to be to throw every kind of continuity-rich fanboy-pleasing guff and to see what stuck. Cybermen and Daleks, Sontarans, more Timelords coming out of the woodwork and why not bring Pat Troughton back for a gratuitously violent, sadistic and overblown mess of a story that has no reason to exist. This is the series going full-on bonkers and the blame lies with Eric Saward, JN-T and the fanboy fraternity.
"The Two Doctors" is way better than "The Day of the Doctor" one of the reasons is not only that didn't celebrate much of the past but also was the lack of villains yes you had the Zygons but they did nothing with them with this you had villains.
I totally violently disagree I thought this was a fun entertaining story if you don't overstudy it too much I can't fault it because this is Patrick Troughton's last ever appearance 2 years before his death. You guys keep going on about it being slow and padding but I disagree you got to have a "story" not everything has to be "bam" "bam" "bam" "bam" which is why entertainment today has lost it's way because everything is now a remake and no originality it's about characters and storytelling if it was cut down and edited they wouldn't be able to spread the story out and it wouldn't make sense you guys got to remember these were shown week to week videos were hard to come by with this series. Shockeye is definately very much dead this is the few occasions The Doctor has actually murdered someone. I thought the Doctor turning into an androgum was interesting and something brand new I didn't think it was a "stupid" idea at all. If you thought this story was bad wait until you get to the next one.
I really do not like this story. Worst colin baker story and also the worst Patrick Troughton story and Roebrt Holmes script as he ignore continuity altogether. It lack Bem/Polly/Victoria or Jamie as realisticially this fits no where and I don't like the 6B theory. Also the story is a snoozefest and drags.
Bringing back a past Doctor during the first full season of a new Doctor was a big mistake. The spotlight should have been entirely on Colin Baker for that first year but by bringing back Troughton, it just fires off the nostalgia factor and gets people thinking about the good old days. Or would, if the story wasn’t crap. Still, they should have held over Troughton for the following season. A big letdown, considering it’s a multi Doctor story written by the great Robert Holmes. Weakest story of the season. A lot of people don’t like the next one but it’s actually okay.
About the only thing I remember from Day of the Doctor is the awful Queen Elizabeth nonsense! It's not that Classic Who was always perfect even though I actually always have enjoyed The Two Doctors and don't get why you seemingly didn't give it a chance/went into it expecting it to be horrible. It's that Nu-Who is too busy injecting stuff into the show that doesn't belong "For a Modern Audience"! There have been great episodes of Nu-wHO - Blink, Father's Day, Girl in the Fireplace, The Impossible Planet, Heaven Sent to name just a few. But there have been far more atrocious episodes of Nu-Who than there ever were in the Classic show which was much more consistently at least watchable. In four years of Pertwee there's only two or three stories I find truly annoying to watch. In 7 years of Tom Baker there's maybe a handful ....which actually include The City of Death for me. In 3 years of Davison there's Snakedance and The King's Demons which I really can't stand. In Colin Baker's run I'd count The Mark of the Rani as the worst story but that's mediocre rather than bad. Sylvester McCoy had the worst ratio of good to bad stories but rather like early Nu-Who his good stories were FANTASTIC and his bad stories were abysmal - Time and The Rani and Silver Nemesis are possibly the worst two stories in the entire Classic era {Dimensions in Time doesnt' count} but he also had The Happiness Patrol, Remembrance of the Daleks, The Curse of Fenric, Battlefield and Survival which are all phenomenal and Ghost Light which is maybe an acquired taste! A lot of people love Greatest Show in the Galaxy....I don't but like Ace I really don't like Clowns! On the other hand I adore Delta and the Bannermen which is generally trashed by the fanbase.....I still despair that Ray didn't stay on as the new companion as I absolutely hated Ace as a 11-13 year old in 1987-89 even though she's grown on me since {I still think Sophie Aldred was far too old for that role at 25 and clearly not 17, I also already didn't like her from seeing her in children's programming of the 80s pre-Doctor Who}. Of 12 McCoy stories I dislike three intensely and am not overly enthused at Dragonfire either. Of 12 Eccelstone stories I dislike 5 - The End of the World, All three Slitheeen stories, and The Long Game. There are at least 14 Tennant stories I do not like! And I'd be surprised if I liked more than half of Matt Smith's stories or a quarter of Capaldi's or Whittaker's as the writing just got worse and worse with the odd great story really shining brightly in a sea of manure!
Apparently the origin of "Androgum" is that it is an anagram of "gourmand" (a person who enjoys eating and often eats too much.)
Exactly
Colin and Patrick were a wonderful double act at conventions, often heckling each other light heartedly. I had the good fortune of meeting them at a one day convention in Minneapolis back in 1986.
Carmen Gomez who played Anita was elected Mayor of Gibraltar in June 2023.
Jacqueline Pearce was in Hammer films The Plague of the Zombies & The Reptile. She’s best known for playing Servalan in the science fiction hit Blake’s 7 1978-1981 a BBC TV show you should both react to. I love the character of Shockeye played brilliantly with such relish by John Stratton who was also in the Hammer film Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell and an episode of UFO. As a child I found Shockeye creepy but as an adult I find him hilarious. There’s a lot of great dark humour in this story. I think it’s underrated. Loved your sequence at the start using The Search for Spock 😂.
The actor playing Dastari was Johnny Ringo in the Gunfighters and Morix in the Leisure Hive.
As someone who had The Two Doctors on VHS when I was growing up, that intro felt like a personal attack 😂
Son of a birch,that was a good pun.
Character Options who make the Doctor Who Action Figures did make two variants of the Second Doctor from this story. The first one was included in the 13 Doctors set from 2016 and the "Androgum" variant was in the The Two Doctors set from 2019.
I won't argue with any of your points. But this is a bit of guilty pleasure of mine, It was the first 6th Doctor story I watched. I love the music of these episodes especially. (Also the Star Trek III edit caught me off guard 😂)
When I traveled in Spain, summer of 1990, five years after this story was broadcast, I enjoyed being there. Years later, Nicola Bryant made a documentary, traveling back around Seville locations (independent project) that was then featured on the Bly-ray box set for this season. Reports than the whole cast had fun being in Spain, except for the actors in Sontaran garb, who endured heat.
Jacqueline Pearce created the most memorable female villain in sci fi TV history. No not this, but Blake's 7, RECOMMENDED!
No, I think this is mostly Holmes. Saward seems to be deferential to Holmes in general and the novelisation by Holmes has the majority of the structurally issues and elements to this.
Two and Jamie are in the midst of "Season 6B" for this story, the period between the last time we see Troughton on War Games and the actual regeneration into The Third Doctor. All of Troughton's Classic era reappearances come from this period, where he is running missions for the Time Lord Celestial Intervention Agency (CIA) until his exile kicks in. Sometimes he gets assistance from his companions, who are taken out of their time streams to help him before being returned to their proper places. This Season 6B era is expanded on in comics and audios.
Anyways, this is my absolute favorite story from the classic era. I love every hammy bit of it.
They do mention a line about dropping Victoria somewhere.
Robert Holmes wrote this episode, the man who wrote the 5th doctors final episode last season, should have stop there. TBF I think JNT had alot of mandates for him with this episodes and made him rewrite this episode a few times. For example it was meant to be the 3rd doctor here "The Doctor who did missions for the Timelords" and Holmes wasn't sure which one that was or how this was originally suppose to be set in New Orleans.
From Jamie n the second doctor's perspective this story is set in between fury from the deep and wheel in space
The Sontaran Stike was Ivo in State of Decay.
Doesn’t the Doctor say he’s dropped Victoria off to study graphology. So, didn’t this happen before they met Zoe ?
Not possible for him to be running missions for the Time Lords before meeting Zoe. Way more likely that the Time Lords grant him his companions for a limited time during this post War Games era
The two doctors is my favourite sixth doctor story I like it because it has got two doctors in its Patrick Troughton last apprentice of the second Doctor and It is set before they meet Zoe
Jackie Pearce who played Chessene was awesome when she, played arch-enemy and recurring arch-villain Servalan in science fiction series Blake,S Seven and awesomely well too I thought Patrick and Colin were awesome together in the 2 Doctors.
Love the opening! Spot on it all goes up in flames!
Holmes / Saward freely admitted they made a mistake in confusing Doctors 2 & 3 as to who was on missions for the Time Lords. So this causes the whole “season 6-b” thing of having No.2 doing missions for them before having memory wiped, regenerated and sent to Earth. Messy.
Such an opportunity missed. It came about by Pat saying how much he enjoyed coming back after The Five Doctors.
Are we forgetting that in The Five Doctors, most of the incarnations don't interact with each other until the last ten minutes? Other than Fake Hartnell and Five, that is.
Just watched it recently and the thing I liked about this story was the cast actually worked really well together. Perry always seemed to me like she has no character reason for even traveling with the Doctor, as she clearly doesn't like it. But Jamie with the Sixth Doctor were actually a really good pairing, surprisingly, and I could actually see an entire season with just them two. Even the Second Doctor and Peri seemed a better match.
Also, seeing the Second Doctor just fitting in perfectly made me miss his stories, he's so good!
Peter Moffatt also directed The Twin Dilemma.
This wasn’t meant to be after The War Games, it was meant to be somewhere in ep. 10 of that serial, between the Doctor arriving on Gallifrey and the Time Lords sending Jamie and Zoe home and sentencing him to exile. The Doctor was instructed to run errands for the Time Lords and this was one of them. I can’t remember the reason for Zoe being replaced by Victoria though.
It was clearly between The Web of Fear and The Wheel in Space - Zoe is NOT mentioned, Victoria is!
@@franohmsford7548 Not “clearly”, Jamie knows who the Time Lords are in The Two Doctors, but doesn’t in The War Games, that’s why he asks “Well who are they, then?” and the Doctor replies “They’re my own people, Jamie.”. I think it was just before or just after he sends off that box containing the information about what was happening and seeking their help.
@@stickytapenrust6869 That's a non-argument. The Time Lords went back and took The Doctor and Jamie out of time, it only makes sense that they would wipe their memories after the mission was over....What better way to maintain plausible deniability than The Doctor not even remembering he'd ever been there.
This is strongly implied as having happened anyway given that Colin didn't remember being there.
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Pat's line about having earned the statenheim remote control can be ignored as The Doctor Lies....Especially if he has an opportunity to get one over one of his other selves :)
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Then there is again that line about Victoria - Why mention Victoria at all if they were taken from The War Games and why would The Time Lords take The Doctor and Jamie from The War Games but not Zoe only to THEN go back and grab Victoria from wherever she was?
@@franohmsford7548 “When the BBC started printing excerpts from the Guide on their website, it crossed over from fanon into essentially BBC "policy". As of 2011, "season 6B" remains a part of the official BBC episode guide. The full text of the official position on 6B is more extensive, but the core of the idea goes something like this:
Rather than undergoing the regeneration shown starting at the end of The War Games, the Second Doctor was recruited to work for the Celestial Intervention Agency, a clandestine Time Lord organisation shown to exist in The Deadly Assassin. During this time, the Second Doctor regained Jamie and Victoria as companions, acquired a Stattenheim remote control device to summon his TARDIS and undertook an unknown number of missions, including that depicted in The Two Doctors. Eventually, the Doctor's association with the CIA ended for reasons not known and his full War Games sentence was executed at the beginning of Spearhead from Space.”
This has a good solid plot (apart from its continuity) but it is padded and streeeetched!
However, the next one is the turkey in this season! It misfires in every way, on a par with Twin Dilemma!
I like the two Doctors
😊
Same
The Expanded Universe has given many explanations for where this takes place in the 2nd Doctor's timeline. Some say it's Season 6B, after The War Games. The one I'm familiar with is the Big Finish Audio "Black Hole", which puts it during Season 5. What happens in that story is they encounter the Monk (though they don't know it's him) and another Time Lord. They end up getting sent on a mission to go see Dastari, with some modifications done to the TARDIS to explain why it can travel accurately, and why it has the 6th Doctor's console room. Victoria stays behind with the Monk.
The idea to bring back Troughton came about because of The Five Doctors, and him wanting to do more. Frazer Hines also wanted to do more. For The Five Doctors, he'd only been able to get 1 day off from the soap opera he was on at the time. Now, 2 years later, he was available to film a whole story.
I love this story, honestly. Just rewatched it before this video, and I still love it. Best of 6's run for me. Maybe just because I love Troughton and Jamie. Sadly Troughton's last appearance in Doctor Who. He died in 1987 while in America for a convention. In fact, we have a ton of footage of him at the convention the day before.
Jacqueline Pearce is most famous for Blake's 7 I believe, although I've never watched that. She also did a bunch of the War Doctor audios as a fellow Time Lord.
All the stuff inside the villa and the restaurant are all sets. You can tell because it looks visually different. For Seasons 1-22, location work was done on 16mm film, and studio stuff was shot on video tape, there's a distinct difference in the way the footage looks. Season 23 onwards, everything moved to videotape, as the technical limitations of video were no longer a concern. A shame, cause the 16mm film stuff can be remastered in true HD. The Davison era on Blu-Ray looks gorgeous as a result.
I recommend Blake's 7. The first series is a little hit and miss at times. Series 2 and 3 are good/great for different reasons, series 4 has its moments.
Personally I prefer Season 6b as the explanation. Terrance Dicks himself (co-writer of War Games) was happy enough to use it several times in his novels.
The only problem with the "Series 6b" theory... The Five Doctors also falls into 6b. In which, Pat Troughton says that Jamie and Zoe must be illusions, as they had their memories erased. This means he is post-War Games, travelling alone.
So, it's possible he went to get Jamie, between T5D and T2D
Or causality alters past adventures and events, except fixed points.
Or the Pandorica.
Or the Big Bang 2.
Or the Flux.
Or Sutekh😂😂😂😂
It’s Great to see Pat and Fraser one last time, but my criticism with Two Doctors is after part two the Sontarans are pushed aside and have the Androgums steal the spotlight. I got this story along with all the other Sontaran stories in a boxset back in 2008. I like the filming location in this story in seville, but it wasn’t fun for the actors playing the Sontarans. They must have been cooking in those suits in the hot weather definitely. Also sadly this is the last story in the classic series to be filmed abroad. Btw anybody feeling peckish?
Even though you didn't like it, you still made an interesting video to listen to...
That is the best I can hope for!
26:25 - oh don’t worry, she gets even more trauma with creeps in the next two serials, the last being the skin-crawling worst.
I do have alot of love for this story, mainly because its one of the first classic story's i watched but its not the best. I think with the padding (Especially in Part 3) its like the walk around in City of Death times 10 which can be very boring in some momens. Its such a shame as well because there's alot of good things in this story like the soundtrack and the overall quality of its look but its dragged down by it being too long and too empty.
Father's Day, is technically a multi Doctor story. Briefly, there are 2 Ecclestons on screen, at the same time.
There have also been 8 more since you made this....Stolen Earth/Journey's End, The Name Of The Doctor, Deep Breath, Twice Upon A Time, Fugitive Of The Judoon, Once Upon Time, The Power Of The Doctor and The Giggle.
Does The Valeyard or The Dreamlord, count?
it was during this story that Dr Who's 18 Month Hiatus was announced
They are Sontarans because apart from The Daleks and The Master the Sontarans are the only Who Villains specifically shown as being already enemies of The Time Lords!
Tbf I'm mixed on Attack of the Cybermen. Good first ep but the second is just messy with random continuity thrown in.
The novelisation is slightly better. It definitely improves somethings but other things are still bad. Oscar's death is still in it for instance (which didn't happen in the original script).
39:40 The thing is, the novelisation is the only one written by Robert Holmes and there's not really much different structurally wise from the tv story. There were issues in the writing process with it originally supposed to be set (and filmed) in New Orleans and there being a lot of dialogue playing on the differences between English and American. This then fell through with Seville substituted.
Jacqueline Pearce is pretty much giving the same performance as Servalan from Blake's 7, her most well known role. I recommend it with it having a lot of connective tissue with DW (writers, directors and actors). Shockeye is played by John Stratton who I know most from the BBC version of Quatermass and the Pit where he plays Captain Potter, a very different role. Dastari is played by Laurence Payne who was Johnny Ringo in the Gunfighters and Morix in the Leisure Hive.
I like the sontaran march music in this.
In the novels by Terrance Dicks, the sentence at the end of the War Games is retconted to death rather than exile. The events of World Game lead to them using him as an agent of the Timelords, with this one set immediately after.
Big Finish have their own explanation.
48:10 I don't particularly care for the 50th. I dislike the bringing back the Timelords/saving Gallifrey arc.
1) I'm not as down on this story as you are, but your opening to this video really made me laugh. And realizing you've got Timelash next makes me laugh even harder. 😂
2) Patrick Troughton had a ball appearing in The Five Doctors and especially enjoyed seeing Fraser Hines the day he came in to film his Jamie cameo. The two expressed their interest in appearing in the show together again "soon" and John Nathan Turner thought, "Do we really have to wait another ten years to make that happen?" - That's how the decision to make this story came about.
3) Robert Holmes had been the original choice to write The Five Doctors, but had ultimately given up after finding it too hard to make the story work with so many returning Doctors, companions and monsters to be squeezed in. When approached about writing this story, he decided to use the main plot idea from his Five Doctors script, "an alien race who wants mastery of time travel wants to dissect the Doctor to find his symbiotic nuclei" here. As you've seen, he still doesn't quite make it work. In the Five Doctors script, it was the Cybermen doing the dissecting and they had abducted all the Doctors (at the time) so they could keep trying if they didn't find it.
4) Both The Five Doctors and this do not jibe with the ending of The War Games. In The Five Doctors, Troughton's Doctor was able to steer the TARDIS to a specific time and place to see the Brigadier at the UNIT reunion, something he was unable to do in any of the televised stories prior to The War Games (the Time Lords repair the TARDIS navigational system in that story, though it still frequently goes wrong afterwards). He also realizes that the Jamie and Zoe he sees in the Dark Tower are fakes because he knows the Time Lords erased their memories, which happens in The War Games. In this story, the Doctor and Jamie are on a mission for the Time Lords, and they've dropped Victoria off somewhere, but aren't concerned about being able to go back and pick her up, which indicates the Doctor can successfully pilot the TARDIS. These discrepancies have given rise to the Season 6B theory.
5) The 6B theory is, since we didn't actually see Troughton turn into Pertwee in that story (the Doctor goes spinning off before we see him change) , he didn't actually regenerate at that time. Jamie and Zoe have their memories erased and are sent home, the Doctor is sentenced, but then, off screen the Celestial Intervention Agency (referenced in The Deadly Assassin) offers to commute the Doctor's sentence if he starts working for them. The Doctor agrees, it is at some point around here that the events of The Five Doctors happen. Later, realizing that the Doctor works better with companions along, the Time Lords allow him to retrieve Jamie (presumably with his memories restored) and Victoria (tired of living in the Harris's spare bedroom) and the events of The Two Doctors happen. Later still, when the Doctor starts to rebel, resenting always being controlled by the Time Lords, they decide to cancel their deal and make him go through with his regeneration and exile anyway, returning Jamie and Victoria to Earth and possibly doing some memory erasing again. Whew! 😅
6) The reason the discrepancies with The War Games exist in the first place is due to a lapse of memory on Robert Holmes part. He was thinking of Jon Pertwee always being sent on missions by the Time Lords and forgot that Troughton wasn't. Script Editor Eric Saward presumably didn't give enough of a shit to fix it.
7) This story was originally supposed to be filmed on location in New Orleans. Since Robert Holmes mainly thought of the many fabulous Cajun restaurants when he thought of New Orleans, he conceived of the Androgums as villains, a race obsessed with eating and food. Later, the setting was changed to Seville, I think because the prospect going to New Orleans to film proved to be more expensive than they anticipated, but they could afford Spain, which was much closer.
8) The origin of the name Androgum, which I believe you were speculating about in the reaction, is that it's an anagram of gourmand. Dastari is also an anagram for "a TARDIS".
9) Holmes was asked to put the Sontarans into the story as the production team wanted to bring them back, but as they weren't part of the original plot they're sort of shoe-horned in.
10) The problems that most fans have with this are the same ones you had, slow plotting, distaste for the Shockeye "cannibalism" stuff, under utilization of the Second Doctor, the pointless death of Oscar which hits the wrong note, the Sixth Doctor killing Shockeye with the cyanide, etc. With regards to the last, to be fair, the Doctor has actually killed lots and lots of people, this is just a bit more "hands on" than we usually see. A whole fleet of Ice Warriors being sent on an inescapable collision course with the sun is more abstract than actually seeing him wrestle Shockeye to the ground while holding a cyanogen soaked rag to his mouth and nose. (I have to confess though, that I really like his grim joke afterwards, "Your just desserts!" but it's more of a James Bond line than a Doctor Who.
11) Jacqueline Pearce, who plays Chessene, starred in the British sci-fi TV series Blake's 7 as Servalan. She was also in a couple of Hammer Horror movies, The Reptile (in which she's the titular monster), and The Plague of the Zombies, she's also appeared in lots and lots of other British TV shows, so one of those things may be why she seems so familiar.
12) The original title for this story was The Androgum Inheritance. It was changed to The Two Doctors in case viewers didn't notice that there are two Doctors in it.😂
13) At around the same time that this was made, Colin Baker and the two Sontaran actors appeared in character on an episode of the TV show Jim'll Fix It. The show, hosted by disc jockey and television emcee Jimmy Saville (he also hosted Top of the Pops, a show similar to American Bandstand), had young children writing in about things they wished they could do and the show would try to make them happen. A kid wanted to treat his favorite teacher to dinner in a posh restaurant, etc. One young Doctor Who fan wanted to meet Colin Baker and the show had him appear in a Doctor Who skit with Colin, fighting the Sontarans on the TARDIS set. Nicola Bryant wasn't available to appear, so Janet Fielding featured in the skit as Tegan. This has become a less charming story in retrospect as, following Saville's death, the public learned that he had been a pedophile who had sexually abused hundreds of young people for decades in his role as a television personality. He tended to prey more on girls than boys, so there's no evidence that I know of that the boy who appeared in the skit with Colin was victimized.
Excellent post. Re point 7, it was John Nathan-Turner who, after a holiday in New Orleans during Mardi Gras, suggested that it would be a good place to film a Doctor Who story on location, and he duly commissioned Robert Holmes to write one.
This was intended to have been a co-production with a U.S. company, but the deal fell through. They eventually opted to set the story in Spain, which necessitated a rewrite from Holmes.
On reflection, script-editor Eric Saward thought this might have been too much of an ask, especially at relatively short notice, which might explain at least some of the deficiencies in the final product.
3:55 - you’re depressed because you haven’t had sunshine in a week? No wonder you left England! 😂😂🤣
Sticky: One of my favorite Beatles’ lyrics was “Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun… if the sun don’t come you get your tan by standing in the English rain…” ~ Dad
@@richardlemin7840 Well I’m a ginger, so my skin just goes lobster colour when I get a tan. 😂😂
This story was written to be set in New Orleans but then the deal to film there fell through late in the day so the producer randomly chose Spain as it was easy to set up filming there - but this put writer Robert Holmes and script editor Eric Saward's noses out of joint.
"Dimensions in Time" is apparently canon according to Russell T. Davies.
I think fans overthink this whole age thing of the Doctor and Jamie i don't think it was something that was never meant to be noticed or thought about i was never a fan of this whole Season 6b theory I think it's just fanfiction and fanwanky as far as I'm concerned after the Second Doctor did regenerate in "The War Games" and immediately got exiled to earth in "Spearhead From Space" and the Fugitive Doctor can't take place between there since the Doctor has already established his 13 incarnations with the Eleventh Doctor in "The Time of the Doctor" so I can't see how the Fugitive Doctor possibly fits in there she's either before Hartnell or is a future version of the Doctor.
Also I don't think this takes place after "The War Games" since they mentioned Victoria some theories point out this takes place before "The Wheel in Space".
I disagree about this being the worst story but I do agree about the Sontaran design.
She's complaining about fishing because she's BORED!
The Doctor's doing something he likes whilst ignoring that she has literally nothing to do all day!
The Two Doctors was one of several stories from this era to provoke controversy over its depiction of violence. In 1985, Australasian Doctor Who Fan Club president Tony Howe criticised the murder of Oscar with a kitchen knife as being an instance of "sick, shock violence" that was present for "cheap shock value only".
Patrick Mulkern of Radio Times awarded the serial two stars out of five, stating: "The Two Doctors wasn't dire but the actors and audience deserved better." In Doctor Who: The Complete Guide, Mark Campbell awarded The Two Doctors seven out of ten, describing it as "a Doctor Who version of Last of the Summer Wine as a sponsored by the Vegetarian Society".
Jacqueline Pearce is best know for villain Servalan from "Blakes 7" a british sci fi i highly recommend you guys checking out for a future reaction.
The reason Peri complains about fishing is because probaly for the same reason as you Alex she finds it boring personally i love fishing it helps eases the mind and gets you outside more.
This story occurs before jamie and the doctor meets zoe not after the war games
Untrue, this is Season 6B
After War Games but before 5 Doctors, because Jamie has gone by then.
Did Doctor Who ever make sense though Richard?
From what I understand this story was a last minute replacement after they couldn't film the planned story in the US.
It's not after The War Games - That's just a fan theory that's never made sense!
The only possible time for this to be set is between The Web of Fear and The Wheel in Space as you're right....Zoe is NOT mentioned!
The Time Lords went back in time to use the second Doctor as an agent and removed him and Jamie from their personal known timeline at that point possibly over and over again; wiping their memories after each mission as Colin doesn't remember doing that mission.
Fraser and Pat may be older here but the characters they are playing are supposed to be the same age they were in The Web of Fear - Note that Jamie isn't treated like a middle-aged man by anyone!
It’s not just a fan theory. It’s accepted as canon by the BBC themselves. You know, those who actually make it, own it and therefore decide these things.
“A theory grew from this book which was quickly embraced by fandom. Indeed, it eventually became "fanon". When the BBC started printing excerpts from the Guide on their website, it crossed over from fanon into essentially BBC "policy". As of 2011, "season 6B" remains a part of the official BBC episode guide. The full text of the official position on 6B is more extensive, but the core of the idea goes something like this:
Rather than undergoing the regeneration shown starting at the end of The War Games, the Second Doctor was recruited to work for the Celestial Intervention Agency, a clandestine Time Lord organisation shown to exist in The Deadly Assassin. During this time, the Second Doctor regained Jamie and Victoria as companions, acquired a Stattenheim remote control device to summon his TARDIS and undertook an unknown number of missions, including that depicted in The Two Doctors. Eventually, the Doctor's association with the CIA ended for reasons not known and his full War Games sentence was executed at the beginning of Spearhead from Space.”
tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Season_6B
@@stickytapenrust6869 The BBC has retconned Doctor Who many times so I'd take that with a pinch of salt.
Again the big problem here is WHY Victoria rather than Zoe if this happened during the War Games sentencing?
It makes absolutely zero sense as a fan theory and the BBC should NOT have adopted it as accepted canon....especially when the BBC is so laissez faire over canon in the first place!
@msford7548 It happened AFTER the War Games sentencing!!! Potentially CENTURIES AFTER for the Doctor! He's running missions for the Time Lords in The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors EXPLICITLY according to the script and ON HIS OWN, and here he is ALSO very clearly working on behalf of the Time Lords. At SOME POINT, they let him have some of his companions back, PROBABLY because he works better with friends around.
Edit: Lest we forget, in The Five Doctors, Two already KNOWS that Jamie and Zoe have been mind-wiped by the Time Lords. Lest we forget, Jamie didn't hear of the Time Lords until War Games part 9. You don't have a leg to stand on.
I don't "like" this serial... but it IS my guilty pleasure serial.
You didn’t jinx it at all. This is an entertaining story. For the first time in ages I couldn’t disagree with you and your Dad more. 😞 yes continuity problems but the dynamic with the 6th and 2nd is good, just separated too long. I love the runaround in Seville.
So next story has a very poor reputation but perhaps say nothing to your Dad and see what happens rather than preempting - I like a lot about the next episode 😊
It's a common misconception that Robert Holmes was vegetarian, which he wasn't, but he was concerned with animal welfare. In an interview to _Doctor Who Magazine_ in 1985, Holmes said: "‘[The Two Doctors] had this vegetarian theme running through it, although I’m not a vegetarian. The things we do to animals..."
PS: I'm fully on-board with your reaction/review of this frankly dull and rambling story. A disappointing coda to end Frazer and Pat's fine contributions to Classic Who.
The problem with this story is the problem with the whole of season 22. At the point where they should have been writing well-plotted original stories whilst gently developing the character of the sixth doctor, they instead decided to make Doctor Who's greatest hits with a loud, bombastic new incarnation whose moral compass was haywire. The plan seemed to be to throw every kind of continuity-rich fanboy-pleasing guff and to see what stuck. Cybermen and Daleks, Sontarans, more Timelords coming out of the woodwork and why not bring Pat Troughton back for a gratuitously violent, sadistic and overblown mess of a story that has no reason to exist. This is the series going full-on bonkers and the blame lies with Eric Saward, JN-T and the fanboy fraternity.
I don't know if it's worse than the 5 doctors. Or Power of the Doctor.
"The Two Doctors" is way better than "The Day of the Doctor" one of the reasons is not only that didn't celebrate much of the past but also was the lack of villains yes you had the Zygons but they did nothing with them with this you had villains.
I mean, of course not
I totally violently disagree I thought this was a fun entertaining story if you don't overstudy it too much I can't fault it because this is Patrick Troughton's last ever appearance 2 years before his death.
You guys keep going on about it being slow and padding but I disagree you got to have a "story" not everything has to be "bam" "bam" "bam" "bam" which is why entertainment today has lost it's way because everything is now a remake and no originality it's about characters and storytelling if it was cut down and edited they wouldn't be able to spread the story out and it wouldn't make sense you guys got to remember these were shown week to week videos were hard to come by with this series.
Shockeye is definately very much dead this is the few occasions The Doctor has actually murdered someone.
I thought the Doctor turning into an androgum was interesting and something brand new I didn't think it was a "stupid" idea at all.
If you thought this story was bad wait until you get to the next one.
The worst is yet to come
@alexthehunted I like both seasons, but i'm always the odd woman out
@@AmyWarriorPrincess oh i didn't mean the season i meant the next story
Nah this one is lowest story until we get to 12s era
I really do not like this story. Worst colin baker story and also the worst Patrick Troughton story and Roebrt Holmes script as he ignore continuity altogether.
It lack Bem/Polly/Victoria or Jamie as realisticially this fits no where and I don't like the 6B theory.
Also the story is a snoozefest and drags.
Bringing back a past Doctor during the first full season of a new Doctor was a big mistake. The spotlight should have been entirely on Colin Baker for that first year but by bringing back Troughton, it just fires off the nostalgia factor and gets people thinking about the good old days. Or would, if the story wasn’t crap.
Still, they should have held over Troughton for the following season.
A big letdown, considering it’s a multi Doctor story written by the great Robert Holmes.
Weakest story of the season. A lot of people don’t like the next one but it’s actually okay.
Timelash is mowhere near as bad as this one
About the only thing I remember from Day of the Doctor is the awful Queen Elizabeth nonsense! It's not that Classic Who was always perfect even though I actually always have enjoyed The Two Doctors and don't get why you seemingly didn't give it a chance/went into it expecting it to be horrible.
It's that Nu-Who is too busy injecting stuff into the show that doesn't belong "For a Modern Audience"!
There have been great episodes of Nu-wHO - Blink, Father's Day, Girl in the Fireplace, The Impossible Planet, Heaven Sent to name just a few.
But there have been far more atrocious episodes of Nu-Who than there ever were in the Classic show which was much more consistently at least watchable.
In four years of Pertwee there's only two or three stories I find truly annoying to watch.
In 7 years of Tom Baker there's maybe a handful ....which actually include The City of Death for me.
In 3 years of Davison there's Snakedance and The King's Demons which I really can't stand.
In Colin Baker's run I'd count The Mark of the Rani as the worst story but that's mediocre rather than bad.
Sylvester McCoy had the worst ratio of good to bad stories but rather like early Nu-Who his good stories were FANTASTIC and his bad stories were abysmal - Time and The Rani and Silver Nemesis are possibly the worst two stories in the entire Classic era {Dimensions in Time doesnt' count} but he also had The Happiness Patrol, Remembrance of the Daleks, The Curse of Fenric, Battlefield and Survival which are all phenomenal and Ghost Light which is maybe an acquired taste!
A lot of people love Greatest Show in the Galaxy....I don't but like Ace I really don't like Clowns!
On the other hand I adore Delta and the Bannermen which is generally trashed by the fanbase.....I still despair that Ray didn't stay on as the new companion as I absolutely hated Ace as a 11-13 year old in 1987-89 even though she's grown on me since {I still think Sophie Aldred was far too old for that role at 25 and clearly not 17, I also already didn't like her from seeing her in children's programming of the 80s pre-Doctor Who}.
Of 12 McCoy stories I dislike three intensely and am not overly enthused at Dragonfire either.
Of 12 Eccelstone stories I dislike 5 - The End of the World, All three Slitheeen stories, and The Long Game.
There are at least 14 Tennant stories I do not like!
And I'd be surprised if I liked more than half of Matt Smith's stories or a quarter of Capaldi's or Whittaker's as the writing just got worse and worse with the odd great story really shining brightly in a sea of manure!
👊 *promosm*