2008 Ford Escape Crank No Start Mystery
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- I'm not sure what is more frustrating, not being about to duplicate a concern or only seeing it happen 1 time. The vehicle is obviously broken so what do you do? At least this vehicle did have something actually testable broke and the customer wanted it fixed.
#topdon #diagnostics
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
Haha Jake as long as it's not a NAPA or DORMAN TPS sensor, it has a chance of working out of the box xD
Almost exact same symptom as that Dodge Durango I did where they replaced the TPS sensor 3 times (NAPA) and it still wouldn't start!
Saw the note to Ivan. Funny!
Great video! I don't think it was a PATs issue, as they will not let you crank at all on Fords. It probably was the issue with the Tps; maybe it was stuck at wide-open throttle but could be we'll never know.😀 BTW I really enjoyed your podcast!
@@autodiagyt now that makes perfect sense 👍 especially if you were seeing wot
@@autodiagyt 💯 I've seen a few fords of that era have a stuck open TPS that's why I now check that PID when I have a Crank no start.
Thank you for another tremendous lesson ! Incredible communication - combination of guidance and video shots and lecturing You are a very dedicated coach !
In Ford PCM strategy RATCH actually stands for Ratchet. There is an algorithm (also called a strategy in programming Ford speak) that determines the full travel (voltage range) of the throttle position sensor(s). When memory is cleared or the sensor changed the PCM must determine the end stops (the actual end positions are learned). So, the algorithm will have an initial end stop value, and when this value is exceeded towards a stop the new value will be stored. By continually looking for the end stop values you may arrive at the final true end stop after several steps, each one of these steps is called a ratchet. So, the mental picture for the algorithm is the end stop values ratchet out until the actual full travel is reached. You need to know the ends of travel to establish the full travel magnitude of the throttle, which can be used for fuel enrichment on tip-ins by using the rate of change or throttle (just one example). You know the rate of change because you know the full range of travel.
The TPS ground is actually called Signal Return (SIG RTN) it is a dedicated signal return (ground) on the PCM.
If you really want to test VREF and SIG RTN you can put a load across these signals at the TPS perhaps 50mA. This will determine if you have any high impedance faults. However, if you have a bad VREF SIG RTN circuit you will see many more DTCs from other sensors. For TPS open circuit detect there will be a diagnostic high resistance voltage divider inside the PCM. You can just move the throttle (KOEO) to see a change in the TPS voltage. However, the best way to monitor this voltage is by using a PicoScope, because if the TPS has a worn spot you will be able to see it as you cycle the throttle. Disconnect the battery before changing the TPS. This will clear the ratchets. After, connecting the battery go KOEO and cycle the throttle pedal which will aid in setting the ratchets. I am not sure if you can do a similar function through the aftermarket scan tool with reset KAM. I know the battery disconnect will clear the KAM.
Anytime you pull a connector for testing you should clean and lubricate the pins with at least Deoxit D5. You can use Deoxit D5 to rinse and then Deoxit D100 to fully treat the pins. Many technicians just use D5 which has proven itself over the years. Basically, all wiping pin connections exposed to air are continually oxidizing. So we want to clean off this oxidation and also lubricate the pins. Lubrication is of most importance if you have a connector with a high number of pins. If the pins are lubricated you can easily mate the pins without bending or damaging a pin. You can try this your self. Just find a couple of automotive mating pins, perhaps an old PCM and harness mating pin, mate the two and judge the force and tension. Then treat the pin with D100 and mate it a couple times and you will feel the connection become much more sure, smooth and without any grit. So, if you treat the pins and cycle the connector a couple of time the contact surface area will be cleaned by the wiping action. Some, technicians do not like to cycle connectors (because they think the plastic will break, which is a valid concern), so they just spray with Deoxit D5, mate once and done.
How does a bad TPS prevent a start? It must be DTC related in a decision tree, but I am really not sure.
It is best to take a look at the Throttle body to see if it needs to be cleaned. Most will get dirty over time. I remove the Throttle Body and clean using CRC Throttle body cleaner.
Totally not related to the video, but i just got done listening to the automotive diag podcast you got featured on. I found it super cool , i also started off as a radio / 12 volt installer and am now working my way through learning as much as i can about troubleshooting and diagnostics
look like you nailed it tps sensor
did not do the problem again
i was tinking more on a ics sticking close LOL i was wrong
thank great video
Lmao at the message to Ivan 😂
i am wondering euro fords immo runs through the cluster and the solder on the pcb is lead free pretty crappy at the point that the terminal block plugs into the board . and cracks . but if my memory serves me right normally the immo light flashes and car don’t crank either but it’s been a few years since i did one . just a case of reflowing the solder with some new stuff . if you remove the cluster an wiggle the plug it normally fails or fixes it . pretty sure you see can bus comm issues dtc’s as the bus runs through that plug also
Fantastic troubleshooting breakdown, Thank you! ... I really have to get myself a good scanner... I've been getting by without one sticking to older vehicles but I just can't avoid it anymore ehhh.
Jake, you are the best. I have learnt alot from your channel
Jake, Great informational video even though this was an intermittent problem. Thanks for posting.
Excellent video and demonstration
Great stuff brother. In my humble opinion you are one of the best UA-camrs in this field. Explanations are simple, clear and thorough. Thanks again.
Agreed ! Undeniably , he is a very dedicated coach and highly skilled master level diagnostician and gifted communicator .
Sometimes we hit it on the first try, sometimes there's more problems to be found for the second try.
Hopefully you got it on the first fix.
Good video, very helpful data and your explanation of how the data can help.
Jake your videos are so darn good ad always very clear and descriptive. OEM parts are becoming scares. Even Ivan has run into the OEM debacle. Yes it is hot even up here on Long Island NY. The humidity is brutal nothing like yours but hot is hot. You have a good weekend. Artie👍
Jake, I wish you had turned the old sensor the way you turned the new one so we could see that the old one was failing. Maybe you did off camera. Always great watching you process through the problem. Thanks for Sharing!
Great video as usual👍🏻
I must say for the age of this car the engine bay looked very clean, it's been taken care of a lot👍🏻
Thanks for sharing BRO😍
2 minutes at a car wash will get you there.
Another Great Video Jake. Seen those TPS stick in several voltage levels before and I would bet it was stuck at wot until you touched the pedal or if like me...just get within 15 feet of the vehicle and it fixes itself. 🤣🤣
BTW.. the Ratch is their closed throttle algorithm where it will continuously monitor and make adjustment for the lowest voltage point when the throttle is closed. A better version of the older Latch system. The Latched was a voltage set point captured at first ignition on. They were a bit more finicky as I know on most of the older Trucks,(late 80 to 96) it didn't like it when it was below .68V They always seemed to be a bit sluggish or less responsive when you would stab the throttle from a stop. Even with a new TPS, I've had to "widen out" the mounting holes to achieve a better target of .95 to .97volts at idle. I've learned that at that voltage point they were always more throttle responsive.
This is when I learned about "Ratch and the Latched Voltage" Well, also from when I was doing some of the old EEC 9aL Mustang tuning and mass conversions into the trucks. Lol Ya like 25 plus years ago now. 😆
Love the videos bro...keep them coming
Cheers
Sometime in electronic throttle maybe causing due tu dirt in throttle but I think its manual throttle maybe should have the same problem you have also cleaned the throttle body it is good for vehicle health and also For TPS sensor.I see this issue in Toyota a couple of times and clean the throttle body and fix it
By the way your diagnostic method so much Informative
I wonder if the PATS system glitched and caused the no start.
I was at an Amish store in Colorado the other day and looking at their buggies. Those keep looking better and better. 😂😂
Nice shoutout at Ivan. 👍
Pats errors usually don’t allow crank also. I have never seen one crank and not fuel due to pats issue.
Bad TPS causing a clear flood / partial accelerator upon starting intermittently? And sure Ivan isn't too happy... lol But, got to do what you got to do to get it back running.
I've seen cars not start when you hold the pedal to the floor.. So I was thinking maybe the sensor was making the PCM think the pedal was at WOT. But the fact that it's a cable throttle, I don't think it would matter as much. But since you have a few of those "invalid data" type codes, It makes me think there could be a faulty or loose main ground cable.. But idk-- it's all just speculation. Intermittent issues are the worst.
@@autodiagyt Noted..
if it stuck at WOT may of been in clear flood mode. It did seem to be sticking .. just a thought. 👍👍
Occasional, non repetitive faults are the worst! Great thought process! Potentiometer sensors are prone to wear out - maybe some odd wiper contact resistance could cause such an implausible value (rapidly changing?), that the PCM couldn't handle it and sent it to some obscure part of the code that inhibited the start. If it's OK now, we may assume it was related to the TPS.
Very possible, woulda coulda shoulda too bad you didn’t look at pids before touching anything and look at general pids like tps maf, Baro,and such. But I think you are correct thinking it was clear flood. Even towing the vehicle could have jarred the throttle loose and not show clear flood anymore but you did duplicate the concern.
@@CodycoWeb Good point.
@@autodiagyt That's probably what happened, now that I look at it from that perspective - I, sometimes, complicate. Too many of Ivan's odd case videos 🙂
Thank you very much
something to think about if vehicles didn't have radios, abs, push to start, no drive by wire, no can network, no other networks we would be out of a job and have good dependable vehicles to drive. i love my 1994 ram 2500 more every day still has some simple computer stuff. but i can change radio no effect on vehicle, abs doesn't affect the running of vehicle. know of several people who have vehicles that will not shut down without unplugging ABS F-150s mostly life could be so simple but then a shop wouldn't need $50,000 in diag equiptment
I had an Escape no start that kept blowing a 10a fuse randomly...
Customer had a penny jammed in the + battery connection~
Lincoln Gate
I got really confused with the sensor unhooked having 3.5v in the signal line. i can figure on a bias voltage but that seems high. a 3 wire 5v circuit i'm used to 5v signal 0v ground 0 volt (unplugged) but that was a 1990 ranger. newer having a bias i would expect 1-1.5v on the signal. thing is it seemed all good with the new one connected.
I am guessing dry solder joints in the cluster for the no start
Well done 👍
You could unplug the tps sensor, and put in its place your own variable resistor. Set the signal wire to 0v, 0.1v, etc, and see if that would recreate the crank no start. I get that a false WOT signal would enter clear flood mode, but all your codes and data was showing errors on the low voltage side for the signal.
My 2008 Escape just spins over but won't start. Tried 2 new fuel pumps and still no start. Will the fuel pump run being just plugged into the connector or does it have to be in the gas?
Not it doesn’t have to be in gas for the electric motor to run.
Great diag...good luck with intermittent fault 😂
Glad you watch Ivan too, lol!!!
Thank you so much sir
Enjoy your weekend with all your family around you ,Automotive Diagnostics & Programming
Brilliant video ,thank you
INTELLECTUAL Automotive Diagnostics & Programming
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 00:35 Good Night 😴 🥱 🌃 🌙
i know if the ground falls out on tps senor 5 volts signal gets sent to pcm is it possible thts what happened sending car into clear flood mode being the sensor is bad anyways
I'M having the same problem with my 2012 ford escape, ( only 55676 mils) the garage has had it for two months and can't find the problem, he told me a week ago it wont even crank now. He has ran out of test to run , he said he's contacted ford and they haven't back with hem yet .
I'm sorry to hear that.
Thanks Jake for sharing
That’s how it goes sometimes.
Could be fuel pump going out, and getting towed shook it loose I've heard of that some times. Since you seen that TPS at WOT that definitely could be it, and a lot easier than fuel pump😂
Was the tps the problem for the no start
I'm pretty sure it was stuck at wide open throttle so it put the engine in clear flood mode.
The throttle position sensor can cause a no start
Grasias
first
You don’t get power on the injecteurs if your fuse it’s good and there is continuity to the pcm so it must be your pcm controls the power to the injecteurs . Change the pcm and your problem it’s solved
I’m not sure what you’re referring to this vehicle only needed a throttle position sensor. It’s not had any issues since this video was made.
CT Closed throttle
PT Partial Throttle
WOT Wide Open Throttle
Key on engine off the sensor should have been calibrated to CT not PT
(Correct me if my thinking is incorrect)