While I am an American, I absolutely loved this episode. It was like a break in the storm or the eye of the hurricane - it gave us a different view of things. My favorite episode that may be called "lower decks," though, was the Longshoremen episode, "By Any Means Necessary."
I'd argue that the guys are more realistic the way they were written. Few people are always one thing or another. They have different attitudes depending on their moods and the things going on. Sometimes they don't like that they aren't noticed or appreciated, but that doesn't mean they don't have reasons to like the important people.
@@Phintasmo I think people misunderstood the focus of the episode. This episode was a worm's eye view of B5 during these "great events." It was NEVER about those two guys in particular. It shows life in parts of Babylon 5 that are not C&C, not the central market, in fact, not from ANY point of view that actually knows what the heck is going on, where, and why. Some people hide, some pray, some pretend it's nothing special, just another day. You hear maybe 15 seconds of officers talking, with no context at all, and wonder what the conversation means. Is it good news? Is it bad? Does ANYONE even know? Also, I believe that one of the most underrated scenes in the entire series was right at the end of this episode. The two characters were complaining to each other that "We do all the work, and they get all the glory. " walk into the hall and witness the real aftermath of battle. The counting of the dead, body bags in lines on the floor.
Come to think of it, it is probably one of my three favorite episodes of the season. It was a rollercoaster. Compared to entire season which was an addon (not bad one) it could have take place any time past three years and fit. I think it is superior to some Lower Decks trope episodes because Mack and Bo were not part of the main or secondary cast. Totally a view from the gallery.
I loved this episode...the fact that these guys Don't heroically save the day was more realistic to me ...the final scene with Franklin looking over the dead crewmen's bodies really drove home to the audience ( as well as Bo and Mack) the true cost of war ...Masterful..
As an American this is one of my favorite episodes . It draws attention to the fact that while the galaxy is in peril and and it is always others who seem to have the choices to make but that even with everything going on , someone still has to keep the lights on so the "Heroes" can save the day .
I think the episode suffers from the same malaise the entire season 5 did. After defeating the Shadows the show never seemed to know where to go next so ended up just drifting, which is why we get the Byron arc, by far the worst in the series. If you'd started season 5 building towards the Telepath war with a number of dark and serious episodes, then dropped this in at mid-season as a comedy to lighten the tone it would have worked better. Instead, like the season, the episode never seemed to know where it was going.
Yes s5 feels like an added feature. But it does focus on characters and their plots a bit more. Because of that it was my favorite season at the first watch all these years ago.
Sadly the telepath colony story got kneecapped by Ivanova leaving the show (and also Talia leaving in season 2). If you watch the interactions between Ivanova and Talia way back in 1x01 and later, it's clear there was gonna be some spicy drama between them, Byron and Bester for season 5. Also someone else playing Byron would've really helped. The telepath story in S5 is just a skeleton of what it was supposed to be.
Season 5 definitely feels like something is "off" in general I'll agree. A lot of that comes from Claudia Christian's unexpected departure from the show.
@@planescaped Yeah, the fact that I can name MAJOR and pivotal moments from the first four seasons, but aside from the finale (which was shot for season four before TNT picked the series up for a fifth), there's next to nothing I remember from S5. I must have a hole in my mind over this, and I have watched the entire series from start to finish before.
‘Malaise’ is absolutely the correct word for season 5. It had its moments, but it felt like a lot of time was spent building to a Telepath War that was extensively teased but never delivered.
i love and i still remember this part to the day how the one guy explains to his workbuddy how he can tell when an enemy ship has been hit since the aliens are breathing a different atmosphere the explosions have a different color.
It's neither fish nor fowl, but why should it HAVE to be? The C&C whozewhatsis, at a critical moment, only goes "FFTZZZZ" when you push the button. Maintenance gets a call. Bo and Mack show up a few minutes later, expound to each other on life, the universe, and everything, while they're digging around inside the panel. One of them says "THERE"S your problem!", tosses away a little gizmo, sticks in a new one, slams the grill shut. The button is pushed, and the whozewhatsis flares into brilliant life Bo and Mack report in, and get another assignment. In Brown sector Just another Tuesday.
I like this episode and your analysis of it. I agree rhat it couldn't go compeltely comedic or cynical because thats just not what 1990s sci-fi TV did. It was a different era, and in that era I think it worked very well. Way better than GoPos anyway.
I always thought that, along with "Day of the Dead," "View From the Gallery" was one of the few _bright_ spots in the otherwise lackluster 5th season. It achieves exactly what it sets out to be, a view of the station from the perspective of someone so far down the chain they have no idea what's actually going on. It's mostly two guys who clearly have been working together for a while quipping back and forth like the old, work buddies they clearly are, complaining about not being appreciated for everything they do (as people in those sorts of jobs are prone to do, because they _are_ underappreciated), but they appropriately rein it in when shit gets real. The episode would _not_ have been improved had they continued to quip like they were laying the template for a Marvel movie, even as people around them were dying left and right. It even ends with a bit of character growth from these guys we'll never see again, as they come face-to-face with the realization that it isn't all sunshine & rainbows for the higher ups, either, and _everyone_ is just doing the best they can in a brutal situation.
This was one of my favorite episodes. Only thing I didn't like was the aliens that attacked the station. They seemed more of a throwaway bad guy of the week. Would have been better if there had been some build up to it with prior episodes.
The aliens in this episode had to be a throw away bad guy. Actual relevance would have distracted from the focus of the episode, which was the point of view the "little" people who never know what's really happening.
B5 was part of WBs syndication network PTEN. Along with Time Trax, Kung Fu the legend continues and Point Man, all of which were canceled and led to the collapse of PTEN. B5 was in production when this happened. With no guarantee of a 5th season, JMS decided that he would complete the series at the end of season 4, which is why the series finale was shot then. Before all episodes were aired, TNT picked it up and a new season finale was shot and aired. TNT wanted more than a final season and commissioned 4 movies and a spin-off. Season four was supposed to be the Shadow War with season 5 rapping up the EA plotline.
If the series is ever re-mastered, and if they can get permission from the actors, it would be great if they could have these guys show up here and there throughout the series just working in the background. Come to think of it, they could do that with a few characters. I thought the episode was a good one. It wasn't my favorite by far, but it isn't an episode I even think about skipping when re-watching the series.
I don't remember much about this episode, except them talking about the supposed cleaning device which we've seen people using many times before in the background though the deck doesn't seem to get noticeably cleaner.
Perhaps it is because I am a fan of British comedy. But I liked it. The humor is around the general nonchalants of the extraordinary. Where we expect them to either panic in fear, or rise up in heroism they just "Keep calm and carry on" and "Don't Panic".
A big problem for me is that new stupid looking aliens attack. If this would have been the Drakh, it would have mattered for the main story! Also less colorful candy effects.
Yes, one of my favorites; sorry but it was 90% great so I don't agree it was written too fast. I will agree the fawning about the top two characters (their relationship) went too far and was silly. However, these guys do see major players all the time and are often part of the background (so they are often ignored but that leads them to not being impressed by the higher ups.) So they wouldn't be taken back by any of them. The station isn't that big and they are not military so it is likely that they do interact with these higher officers/leaders from time to time. I really like the mocking of the one tech piece about the floors and what it might do. The interactions with the telepaths was pure gold and finally gave the viewer a real idea of what these special types can do and why they are feared so deeply.
I really loved the idea of this episode, I just felt the execution fell short of what it could have been. The telepath scenes are neat. JMS had to add those parts in during shooting because they were running under time and needed a few extra minutes. Definitely among the better scenes with Byron’s gang.
This by far was one of my favorite episodes just cause of everything going on in what would be a normal day at there jobs! P.S I think making them the hero would loss all meaning on the normal day for the working man in this episode, also why i think i liked it so much!
I think people misunderstood the focus of the episode. This episode was a worm's eye view of B5 during these "great events." It was NEVER about those two guys in particular. It shows life in parts of Babylon 5 that are not C&C, not the central market, in fact, not from ANY point of view that actually knows what the heck is going on, where, and why. Some people hide, some pray, some pretend it's nothing special, just another day. You hear maybe 15 seconds of officers talking, with no context at all, and wonder what the conversation means. Is it good news? Is it bad? Does ANYONE even know? Also, I believe that one of the most underrated scenes in the entire series was right at the end of this episode. The two characters were complaining to each other that "We do all the work, and they get all the glory. " walk into the hall and witness the real aftermath of battle. The counting of the dead, body bags in lines on the floor.
My biggest problem with the episode was that the not so specific bad guys attacking the station have nothing to do with the series storyline, which is a wasted opportunity. It would have better if there had been a series of terrorist attacks on the station, connected to the Drakh or something, where the maintenance team saved the day by finding an irregularity in the system. I'd rather there be no alien attack than such a pointless one.
Yeah, it’s more of just looking at the B5 world from another perspective without having anything profound to say about it or the characters we are focusing on. It’s a fine episode, but it needed more of an identity and commentary on what the little guy really thinks of these giant galactic seismic events happening around them. It’s kind of a first draft run at the idea. It had promise but didn’t have all of JMS’ heart into developing this concept.
If he’d actually got Ellison to write the thing I reckon we’d have got something a lot edgier with something definitive to say (even if it might have had problems all of its own).
Byron really polarized people. I always felt he came off creepy but that this wasn’t what they intended. I skipped over his appearance in this episode but here I felt the telepath colony worked in this context.
I'm in the anti-camp on this episode - mostly because of the fawning over the main cast, as you put it, and it not really being about them. And the show has had episodes that do it better - TKO might not be well-regarded, but Walker Smith is a regular guy, and he's the one with the character arc - Catherine Sakai is a businesswoman, and one of the three episodes she's in has nothing to do with her relationship with Sinclair. We get snippets of normal people's conversations at the edges of scenes, or see familiar faces returning (like Kat the bartender).
I loved that episode, but compared to similar episodes in other series, it's not the best. To me "The zeppo" in Buffy is best. And the take in Stargate SG-1 "the other guys" is also much better. Now both are slightly more recent, so they might have taken inspiration from B5. Also, in my opinion, there's a whole excellent series close in the MCU based on the concept "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D".
I've been a fan a watcher enjoying the story since the conception what you consider the violation of Canon long before that ever became an issue.... No offense to you.. The story of Babylon 5 was an evolution of regression that the writer could do which was one person.... This episode that you're talking about is perfect In my opinion and I understand that I could be wrong but it is my opinion
This episode certainly has it's fans and there is a lot to like about it. For my tastes I'd have liked them to be a little grouchier and more cynical - especially with Harlan Ellison involved.
I think you're a bit harsh on this episode. The behavior of the techs isn't that far off from what I've seen in real life. In some ways it makes me think of Dune. In its own way, this episode is also a warning against charismatic leaders.
While I am an American, I absolutely loved this episode. It was like a break in the storm or the eye of the hurricane - it gave us a different view of things.
My favorite episode that may be called "lower decks," though, was the Longshoremen episode, "By Any Means Necessary."
I'd argue that the guys are more realistic the way they were written. Few people are always one thing or another. They have different attitudes depending on their moods and the things going on. Sometimes they don't like that they aren't noticed or appreciated, but that doesn't mean they don't have reasons to like the important people.
I think one of the strengths of the episode was the banter between the two guys. They were well cast and they felt like real people.
@@Phintasmo
I think people misunderstood the focus of the episode. This episode was a worm's eye view of B5 during these "great events." It was NEVER about those two guys in particular.
It shows life in parts of Babylon 5 that are not C&C, not the central market, in fact, not from ANY point of view that actually knows what the heck is going on, where, and why.
Some people hide, some pray, some pretend it's nothing special, just another day. You hear maybe 15 seconds of officers talking, with no context at all, and wonder what the conversation means. Is it good news? Is it bad? Does ANYONE even know?
Also, I believe that one of the most underrated scenes in the entire series was right at the end of this episode. The two characters were complaining to each other that "We do all the work, and they get all the glory. " walk into the hall and witness the real aftermath of battle. The counting of the dead, body bags in lines on the floor.
Come to think of it, it is probably one of my three favorite episodes of the season. It was a rollercoaster.
Compared to entire season which was an addon (not bad one) it could have take place any time past three years and fit.
I think it is superior to some Lower Decks trope episodes because Mack and Bo were not part of the main or secondary cast. Totally a view from the gallery.
They should definitely get some credit for a pretty original spin on the trope.
I loved this episode...the fact that these guys Don't heroically save the day was more realistic to me ...the final scene with Franklin looking over the dead crewmen's bodies really drove home to the audience ( as well as Bo and Mack) the true cost of war ...Masterful..
Franklin grew on me a lot.
He also has a speech earlier in the episode about his father that was quite powerful.
Having worked as a janitor and maintenance man in the military, these guys were spot on to my lived experiences so for that I can't fault it.
Aw hell yeah. Referencing the Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead movie
Young Tim Roth and Gary Oldman sharing the screen!
As an American this is one of my favorite episodes . It draws attention to the fact that while the galaxy is in peril and and it is always others who seem to have the choices to make but that even with everything going on , someone still has to keep the lights on so the "Heroes" can save the day .
I think the episode suffers from the same malaise the entire season 5 did. After defeating the Shadows the show never seemed to know where to go next so ended up just drifting, which is why we get the Byron arc, by far the worst in the series. If you'd started season 5 building towards the Telepath war with a number of dark and serious episodes, then dropped this in at mid-season as a comedy to lighten the tone it would have worked better. Instead, like the season, the episode never seemed to know where it was going.
Yes s5 feels like an added feature. But it does focus on characters and their plots a bit more.
Because of that it was my favorite season at the first watch all these years ago.
Sadly the telepath colony story got kneecapped by Ivanova leaving the show (and also Talia leaving in season 2). If you watch the interactions between Ivanova and Talia way back in 1x01 and later, it's clear there was gonna be some spicy drama between them, Byron and Bester for season 5. Also someone else playing Byron would've really helped. The telepath story in S5 is just a skeleton of what it was supposed to be.
Season 5 definitely feels like something is "off" in general I'll agree.
A lot of that comes from Claudia Christian's unexpected departure from the show.
@@planescaped Yeah, the fact that I can name MAJOR and pivotal moments from the first four seasons, but aside from the finale (which was shot for season four before TNT picked the series up for a fifth), there's next to nothing I remember from S5. I must have a hole in my mind over this, and I have watched the entire series from start to finish before.
‘Malaise’ is absolutely the correct word for season 5.
It had its moments, but it felt like a lot of time was spent building to a Telepath War that was extensively teased but never delivered.
i love and i still remember this part to the day
how the one guy explains to his workbuddy
how he can tell when an enemy ship has been hit
since the aliens are breathing a different atmosphere the explosions have a different color.
It's neither fish nor fowl, but why should it HAVE to be?
The C&C whozewhatsis, at a critical moment, only goes "FFTZZZZ" when you push the button.
Maintenance gets a call.
Bo and Mack show up a few minutes later, expound to each other on life, the universe, and everything, while they're digging around inside the panel.
One of them says "THERE"S your problem!", tosses away a little gizmo, sticks in a new one, slams the grill shut.
The button is pushed, and the whozewhatsis flares into brilliant life
Bo and Mack report in, and get another assignment. In Brown sector
Just another Tuesday.
I like this episode and your analysis of it. I agree rhat it couldn't go compeltely comedic or cynical because thats just not what 1990s sci-fi TV did. It was a different era, and in that era I think it worked very well. Way better than GoPos anyway.
Fourth-wall-breaking ‘meta‘ episodes seem far more common today
I always thought that, along with "Day of the Dead," "View From the Gallery" was one of the few _bright_ spots in the otherwise lackluster 5th season. It achieves exactly what it sets out to be, a view of the station from the perspective of someone so far down the chain they have no idea what's actually going on. It's mostly two guys who clearly have been working together for a while quipping back and forth like the old, work buddies they clearly are, complaining about not being appreciated for everything they do (as people in those sorts of jobs are prone to do, because they _are_ underappreciated), but they appropriately rein it in when shit gets real. The episode would _not_ have been improved had they continued to quip like they were laying the template for a Marvel movie, even as people around them were dying left and right.
It even ends with a bit of character growth from these guys we'll never see again, as they come face-to-face with the realization that it isn't all sunshine & rainbows for the higher ups, either, and _everyone_ is just doing the best they can in a brutal situation.
I'm American, and I loved it.
This was one of my favorite episodes. Only thing I didn't like was the aliens that attacked the station. They seemed more of a throwaway bad guy of the week. Would have been better if there had been some build up to it with prior episodes.
Yes, maybe a couple of episodes with a little foreshadowing and one after this to wrap it up.
Its not like there wasnt room for it in season 5!
The aliens in this episode had to be a throw away bad guy.
Actual relevance would have distracted from the focus of the episode, which was the point of view the "little" people who never know what's really happening.
One of the nicest Episode of Space Center Babylon 5 :)
Its got a gentleness to it which is not so common in B5.
B5 was part of WBs syndication network PTEN. Along with Time Trax, Kung Fu the legend continues and Point Man, all of which were canceled and led to the collapse of PTEN. B5 was in production when this happened.
With no guarantee of a 5th season, JMS decided that he would complete the series at the end of season 4, which is why the series finale was shot then. Before all episodes were aired, TNT picked it up and a new season finale was shot and aired.
TNT wanted more than a final season and commissioned 4 movies and a spin-off. Season four was supposed to be the Shadow War with season 5 rapping up the EA plotline.
If the series is ever re-mastered, and if they can get permission from the actors, it would be great if they could have these guys show up here and there throughout the series just working in the background. Come to think of it, they could do that with a few characters.
I thought the episode was a good one. It wasn't my favorite by far, but it isn't an episode I even think about skipping when re-watching the series.
They really nailed the casting of the two guys. You believe they’ve been working together for years.
I don't remember much about this episode, except them talking about the supposed cleaning device which we've seen people using many times before in the background though the deck doesn't seem to get noticeably cleaner.
This is one of my favorite episodes.
Perhaps it is because I am a fan of British comedy. But I liked it. The humor is around the general nonchalants of the extraordinary. Where we expect them to either panic in fear, or rise up in heroism they just "Keep calm and carry on" and "Don't Panic".
A big problem for me is that new stupid looking aliens attack. If this would have been the Drakh, it would have mattered for the main story! Also less colorful candy effects.
Brilliant brilliant brilliant video.
Yes, one of my favorites; sorry but it was 90% great so I don't agree it was written too fast. I will agree the fawning about the top two characters (their relationship) went too far and was silly. However, these guys do see major players all the time and are often part of the background (so they are often ignored but that leads them to not being impressed by the higher ups.) So they wouldn't be taken back by any of them. The station isn't that big and they are not military so it is likely that they do interact with these higher officers/leaders from time to time. I really like the mocking of the one tech piece about the floors and what it might do. The interactions with the telepaths was pure gold and finally gave the viewer a real idea of what these special types can do and why they are feared so deeply.
I really loved the idea of this episode, I just felt the execution fell short of what it could have been.
The telepath scenes are neat. JMS had to add those parts in during shooting because they were running under time and needed a few extra minutes. Definitely among the better scenes with Byron’s gang.
While not my favorite episode, its one of the most memorable.
This by far was one of my favorite episodes just cause of everything going on in what would be a normal day at there jobs!
P.S I think making them the hero would loss all meaning on the normal day for the working man in this episode, also why i think i liked it so much!
I think people misunderstood the focus of the episode. This episode was a worm's eye view of B5 during these "great events." It was NEVER about those two guys in particular.
It shows life in parts of Babylon 5 that are not C&C, not the central market, in fact, not from ANY point of view that actually knows what the heck is going on, where, and why.
Some people hide, some pray, some pretend it's nothing special, just another day. You hear maybe 15 seconds of officers talking, with no context at all, and wonder what the conversation means. Is it good news? Is it bad? Does ANYONE even know?
Also, I believe that one of the most underrated scenes in the entire series was right at the end of this episode. The two characters were complaining to each other that "We do all the work, and they get all the glory. " walk into the hall and witness the real aftermath of battle. The counting of the dead, body bags in lines on the floor.
as a tradesman my fav ep
I like the episode very much. You can cut it off the series and nothing is lost on the plot, but I think it was a nice episode.
My biggest problem with the episode was that the not so specific bad guys attacking the station have nothing to do with the series storyline, which is a wasted opportunity. It would have better if there had been a series of terrorist attacks on the station, connected to the Drakh or something, where the maintenance team saved the day by finding an irregularity in the system. I'd rather there be no alien attack than such a pointless one.
Yeah, it’s more of just looking at the B5 world from another perspective without having anything profound to say about it or the characters we are focusing on. It’s a fine episode, but it needed more of an identity and commentary on what the little guy really thinks of these giant galactic seismic events happening around them. It’s kind of a first draft run at the idea. It had promise but didn’t have all of JMS’ heart into developing this concept.
A first draft is what I'd describe it as too. Really has that feel to it.
If he’d actually got Ellison to write the thing I reckon we’d have got something a lot edgier with something definitive to say (even if it might have had problems all of its own).
Me thinks you’re thinking too much, personally it’s my Favorite episode during the Byron arc episodes!
Byron really polarized people. I always felt he came off creepy but that this wasn’t what they intended. I skipped over his appearance in this episode but here I felt the telepath colony worked in this context.
I'm in the anti-camp on this episode - mostly because of the fawning over the main cast, as you put it, and it not really being about them. And the show has had episodes that do it better - TKO might not be well-regarded, but Walker Smith is a regular guy, and he's the one with the character arc - Catherine Sakai is a businesswoman, and one of the three episodes she's in has nothing to do with her relationship with Sinclair. We get snippets of normal people's conversations at the edges of scenes, or see familiar faces returning (like Kat the bartender).
I loved that episode, but compared to similar episodes in other series, it's not the best.
To me "The zeppo" in Buffy is best. And the take in Stargate SG-1 "the other guys" is also much better. Now both are slightly more recent, so they might have taken inspiration from B5.
Also, in my opinion, there's a whole excellent series close in the MCU based on the concept "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D".
I've been a fan a watcher enjoying the story since the conception what you consider the violation of Canon long before that ever became an issue.... No offense to you..
The story of Babylon 5 was an evolution of regression that the writer could do which was one person.... This episode that you're talking about is perfect In my opinion and I understand that I could be wrong but it is my opinion
This episode certainly has it's fans and there is a lot to like about it. For my tastes I'd have liked them to be a little grouchier and more cynical - especially with Harlan Ellison involved.
Nope, perfect as it is. The whole point is that every job no matter how seemingly mundane is essential and adds to the whole.
I think you're a bit harsh on this episode. The behavior of the techs isn't that far off from what I've seen in real life. In some ways it makes me think of Dune. In its own way, this episode is also a warning against charismatic leaders.
I pretty much agree. The original Lower Decks on Star Trek: TNG was a MUCH better episode.
I hate this episode with a fiery passion. I don't mind the episode as a concept, but I found Mack and Bo so irritating, I couldn't get past it.
way too hard lol this was an epic ep
Definitely a memorable one.
Why so few views?
It deserves a little better right? Please share with any friends who might dig the old B5!
The ultimate lower decks story is Red Dwarf. The two least important and most embarrassing people become the last of humanity-what a joke mc
For me this was the worst ep it made, up there with Duncan
Remind me, which one was Duncan?
Nope can't agree with your analysis. If Mack & Bo had saved the day, that would have cheapened the episode.
worst episode ever ..... of the best show ever