@@WoodFiresWithVince it does and far, far less smoke which is great. i have told 2 friends about top down lighting and they laugh at me! i cannot convince them it's the way to go. strange.
Vincent I could literally just listen to you talk forever. Would love to see different wood on fire and a commentary on them. Also.loved your BbC podcasts. Cheers
Glad to hear your emphasis on doing what we can to burn wood as clean as possible. I have neighbors with terribly smoky chimneys, and they don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Unless one has a rocket mass heater or masonry stove, burning wood still produces the most particle pollution of any heat source. On the other hand, just keeping our property clean and safe I generate a lot of quality wood that would go to waste if I didn't heat the house with it.
All very true. The trick is to really learn how to 'drive' your stove and burn the smoke - getting the most heat and the least emissions. I would say that coal is worse and that was once very common. Wood as fuel is a good news story - but only if people understand the fuel and the stove - after all, we did evolve with wood fires. Have a good winter. Vince
Stumbled on this channel after discovering the top down lighting from last week from a US video - Gets our 6kw stove up and running in 5 mins to 350F and as I only have ash to hand by choosing my splits I’ll get 2-3 hours before reloading - after a week of doing this I am getting longer burns loading the stove and it’s saving maybe 2-3 log rounds per day - enjoying the videos in Early Nov 22 and still to get the gas central heating on !
Yes absolutely - there are so many advantages of top down - odd really that it is such a relatively recent technique. Burning the smoke at first lighting is a big deal and really helpful. May you dodge the gas heating for a while yet! Best wishes, Vince
I too have a clear view vision 500, except that mine’s a high top which means that it puts a little bit more heat into the room (larger distribution area) but there’s nowhere to perch my coffee pot 😕damn it! Anyhow, this begs a question because you’re a wood burning enthusiast but the clear view vision 500 is a multifuel stove with a grate for coal burning built in. Multi-fuel stoves can be very efficient but not as efficient in burning either fuel as a stove specifically designed for one or the other would be. I’ve read that people who burn nothing except wood often fit a flat plate in the bottom of multi-fuel stoves to blank over the coal grate / shut off the route to the ash pan to convert them into true wood burners and make an efficiency gain. It’s a simple conversion that only requires a flat plate dropping on top of the grate, so quick, easy and cheap to do. I noted from the way that you adjusted the air intake wheel that feeds air in through the grate for coal burning that you’ve left yours in its original ‘not as efficient for burning wood’ state with an active grate. Could you help out a fellow clear view vision 500 owner by explaining why you’ve chosen to keep and use a coal grate rather than popping plate in for an easy efficiency gain? Many thanks😊
A very interesting question. Two things really. Firstly I never take out all of the wood ash as I like the embers to sit on a bed of white ash as I feel they then glow for longer. Secondly, perhaps just because I am used to it, I like being able to control the two air flows. I think I usually settle on about 85/90% secondary air, to burn the smoke, etc. and about 10/15% primary air coming up through the embers. So I do massively restrict the primary air - but not totally. I too have thought about a plate, but never have used one - I might be wrong, but I feel that the way I work burns well and gets the heat from my logs. I feel that my focus on getting my logs as dry as I can is the most important thing in burning efficiently, boiling off the moisture in logs is a huge waste of heat energy. Thanks for raising this. All best. Vince
Your "why" was very thoughtful, and you have a great outlook on life and cant wait to hear what else you think and look forward to your next videos! cheers!
I know, at first it seems a bit weird - but it is more efficient and easier, as long as you have some skill with logs and fire lighting. Thanks for your comment. Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince Vince, the only thing that makes me happy in this weather is that the firewood dries quickly. I am watching your videos from Ukraine and it helps me prepare for a long winter. Thank you
Read your book a couple of years ago, and got my Clock stove 13 months ago in place of an open fire and two electric storage heaters. Still learning how to make a fire last all evening though! Used kiln dried logs in my first winter, now using my own seasoned (since last April) logs. My moisture meter tells me they are dry, but my stove seems to need more air than last winter. Any thoughts? Just subscribed.
Hi Phil, No answer leaps to mind about the air - maybe it is just that our job is to get the airflow right, and this will differ with things like: different quality logs, how windy or cold it is, and how clear the chimney flue is. I just watch the fire and give it enough secondary air (above the fire to burn the smoke) to create lazy rolling flames - I also check in daylight that there is almost no visible smoke coming out of the chimney, once it is hot. And yes the fire will only last a few hours if the lower layer of logs are dry and a very dense species - for me that's something like elm, hawthorn, oak or field maple. It takes a while to learn to run the stove really well, but it's worth it. Have a great winter. Vince
Nice idea - thank you. I'll have to get on with getting the Christmas trees ready soon - but I will come back to your idea as fireside chats about logs, firelighting and wood fire cooking are great. Vince
It was only this year I tried the top-down fire and never looked back. My stove/chimney don't draw very well, and with the old method I had a hell of a job lighting the fire and there was a lot of smoke blowing back into the room. Then I had to coax it for ages. All that's gone now. It's more or less light, close door when ablaze, sit back and enjoy. A variation I just came across is the V or cradle fire. You lay the bottom layers as before, but then leave a gap in the centre for the top layer and place logs to the side. When using your method with varying wood types there would be conifer wood to the side and some under the gap. Put your kindling in the gap. I guess the advantage would be that the kindling fire is somewhat insulated and can burn hotter. What I'd like to try next is to make an even more efficient stove taking the best aspects of the rocket mass heater, masonary and TLUD stove to burn all the smoke and keep most of the heat in the house.
That is so good to hear. I too was slow to pick up on 'top downs', but they really are a win win! Masonry stoves are fantastic, but little tradition of them in the uk. Good luck with your ideas.
@@WoodFiresWithVince my guess about the lack of masonry stove tradition here is unpredictable winter weather. We can go from arctic blast to spring like weather (as in the last few days) in a matter of hours. Those masonry monsters are about as easy to throttle as a super tanker on the high sea. I have a tiny house, and would build a very minimal masonry stove that would hopefully just give comfortable steady background heat, moderated through adjusting my clothes layers, if need be.
Dear Tjasa, thank you. I love the subject and have ideas for more videos, I just must find the time to make them! My best wishes for the Christmas season. Vince
I predominantly burn spruce, I was doing the top down method but something for you to consider if you have a newer wood stove, whether it is catalytic or secondary air if you build too big of a fire Ie. fill your firebox all the way and light a top down fire you will be over firing your stove. The effects of doing this repeatedly are that you will damage/ destroy your cat and you can melt / destroy your air tubes. This is a great method to use but you also have to be aware of this and practice a good bit of common sense. The goal here is to start your fire and get your stove to temp quickly and efficiently. So by all means use this method but try to avoid stacking your logs too much above where your fire bricks are sitting in the stove. a good rule to use is to try to leave 6" of clearance minimum below your air tubes / cat. box. The new style stoves cannot be brilliantly efficient if you melt them.
Thank you, a really helpful observation. I have never built to the top of my stove as I want the first lit fire to have plenty of air and little smoke - but you make a really good point beyond what I was thinking. Have a good winter. Vince
I don't have the luxury of all these different kinds of wood to start a fire with. But since I live in Greece I can get olive wood. Some is very old, very dense, and burns a long time. It really needs to be seasoned well and dry, if you want to burn it.
I think that you have one of the best fire woods in the world. You do have a luxury wood! If you make top down fires - with maybe a bit of pine or something lighter to go on the top - I hope you enjoy really excellent fires. The challenge in England in part is getting our wood seasoned properly, so much rain this year. Best wishes, Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince Thank you, I put my wood out in a South facing direction in the spring and the hot Greek sun bakes it all summer. It really does a good job, Vincent
Really grateful again for an informative video. Thank you for ratcheting it down just enough for the beginners. It’s our first wood burning winter and it will be quite the learning curve. Today I grabbed the wagon and collected sappy pine cones and birch bark. The wood shed is built and stacked according to your book. The stove should be in place in about two weeks! Excited to put your techniques to work but a bit nervous at the same time. It may even be a bit comical for the first go as I can just picture myself as if I’m in the kitchen with the cookbook in one hand and flour all over the place only your book will be in one hand and the other will be trying to get the pine cone unstuck from my fingers before I catch my hand on fire! Your voice is always so calm and collected. I’m wondering if maybe your drink is a hot toddy? ☺️
Hi Valerie, I think my drink is mostly tea! Sometimes posh tea like Russian Caravan, but decent brandy has a place too! Now, your new stove - learning to drive it will be great, a whole new world opens for you both now. The big things are: check your wood is dry enough (hopefully moisture content about 20% or less) and learn how to work with the air flows in your stove. And enjoy this your fires - the warmth and the light.
Hello from Norway. 😊 Great video, I must practice this. I have been making my own wood for a few years, great “hobby”. We mainly have Wood Willow, Spruce, Birch and Rowan Tree on my small Ranch.
Hi, thank you, the birch and willow are fairly quick drying, the spruce probably needs a bit longer - there is an old tradition in England not to burn Rowan, something about getting witches I think!? But as that's your one hard species you might have to risk it! I hitch-hiked around southern Norway once, absolutely loved the country and the people. Best wishes, and yes it is a great hobby, Vince
I use "top down" AND "bottom up" simultaneously to start my home-made wood burner. I ignite the top only, to allow the chimney to heat up and as the embers fall through the stack of kindling then the bottom ignites. This method gives me a completely smoke free fire very quickly, with the door closed. Of course the fire starter stack, I call it, is surrounded by large dry logs that will burn for at least 90 minutes or more before adding more fuel.
A good technique. That pretty much describes a perfect modern fire lighting - the key is not smothering the first flames to make as little smoke as possible, and you've got that.
Interesting point! I do not have a video on driftwood, but have often burnt it with sea-coal found while beach-combing. My main worry about it is I am not keen to put salt into my stove and chimney. Fine while everything is dry, but during times when I don't have a fire I suspect the salt would begin to corrode the stove, flue, whatever. As I am sure you know, the deep yellow flame driftwood gives is due to the sodium load within the wood. So for me, driftwood is great for any outdoor fire, but I don't use it much in the home. Have a good winter. All best, Vince
Hi Vince are you still out there if so i would be very interested on how you did your under floor heating as we have a rayburn wood burner to and would like to do the same hope you are well all the best Budo
Hi, good to see all you are doing, it looks great. My cottage is a new build, using reclaimed materials where I can and is massively insulated. So my under-floor heating was easy as we did it as the floor was laid. So I am sorry to say I have no clever ideas or knowledge for laying underfloor heating in an existing old property. I hope you find someone who can help. All best wishes, Vince
Not really, they are excellent stoves. Plenty of air at first to get it hot, then balance the air for a rolling flame, for me about 10% primary air (coming up through the logs) and then control the fire with the secondary air. Enjoy a warm winter! Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVinceThanks for the reply so mine isn't much smaller then? Thanks for your helpful advice. Do you find it likes certain species of wood or not too fussy.
@@mattseymour8637 If you can choose your wood, then the common hardwoods like beech, birch, sycamore, ash, with some elm and oak make great fires. But the real key is that your logs are dry and you learn to get the airflow correct. And top down fires help reduce any smoke.
@@WoodFiresWithVince I do sell firewood so supply isn't a problem and have a mix of good hardwood. I will keep that in mind. Do you use any softwood at all mixed in with the hardwood?
What an amazing video, I moved to a v cold old cottage with a vision 500 and have tried everything to get a decent heat fire beyond 400c, even have the Norwegian wood book. The folks at clear view advised against top down but you’ve inspired me to have another go. A burning question 😂 but did you eventually shut down the air wheel fully, when I do that even after an hour the logs although well seasoned just start charring and temp reduces. Everyone seems to have a different view of clear view controls online but your video is the most useful. Great content!
Hello, firstly, your firewood must be good quality and dry for a top down fire to work well. To your main question. I would never close either of the air controls. Once the fire is going I reduce my primary air by closing the wheel to be open about one full turn. The secondary air is the most important as it is needed to burn the smoke and pyrogenous vapours. I adjust the control (low down brass knob) so that I have a rolling slow flame - and leave it like that. I never fully shut either control. I have had Clearview 500s for well over 20 years now and they are great stoves. All best wishes with your fires. Vince
Hello! Just watched your video. Very well done! You should get a stove fan on top of your stove. It will change your life just like the top down wood fire did! I got a stove fan in our summer cabin and it makes the cabin warm so much quicker in the fall and spring when we need to heat it up!
Fair point - I know they are good and the engineering is really clever. I built the house I live in with the lowest ceilings I was allowed, so as not to waste my heat up above me! But, as you say, a stove top fan for the coldest days would make it even better! Thanks for your thoughts, Vince
We have a large garden with lots of trees. When we pay the tree surgeons thousands to come and do their thing I’m keen to get the maximum benefit out of the end result. Chop what I can, stack it up with the un-split chopped logs and let it season. Mother Nature couldn’t give two hoots whether the wood is eaten by the woodlice, or whether you burn it to the benefit of your cold toes. The earth will continue to rotate, the sun will continue to shine and trees will continue to grow. The problem with people idolising wood as a fuel is that places like Drax power station are converted to burning the stuff instead of coal. Where does a monster like Drax get its wood from? It receives £800m in U.K. taxpayer subsidies to cut down and burn millions of tonnes of ancient forests in North Carolina in the US and British Columbia in Canada. Don’t tell me that’s sustainable. It takes 10-30 years for trees to grow, and a second to vaporise them. Bless what god provides. It’s all for you. Do not curse any of it. I’m talking about fossil fuels.
Interesting! Yes many people do not realise that the carbon dioxide released when burning a log, would also be released if the log was left to rot away. And broadly, yes, the whole subject is far more complicated than at first seems. The politicians go for popular sound-bites and this can lead to ill considered policies. If you have not listened to Dr Judith Curry, you may find her views interesting - the opinion that is seldom heard, right or wrong she should be heard. Vince ua-cam.com/video/YBdmppcfixM/v-deo.html
@@WoodFiresWithVince I have to say she talks a lot of sense. The idea that people think they can control the planet’s temperature by restricting the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is patently ridiculous.
@@Himoutdoors I am not given to conspiracy theories, but her view that the 'scientific consensus' is a construct - with any naysayers side-lined was interesting. As was her plea for a working alterative before we deconstruct the fossil fuel economy. Sadly she seemed anti-wood!
@@WoodFiresWithVince well she doesn’t have to burn it if she doesn’t want. Do what fits in with your worldview, bless the gifts that life gives you, and never mind what others think.
Sometimes when I''m lighing the log burner I think it'd be great if the vents could be regulated with my phone haha so lazy and totally missing the point I know :-)
Yes it does have a grate above an ash pan. It is a Clearview Vision 500. I have chosen a multi-fuel stove to have the flexibility to use other fuel - for if I got injured, or really ill or something. I believe they are a slightly less efficient burn than a true modern woodburning-only stove, but I try and make up for that by drying my logs well and maintaining a careful air flow in the stove. They are great stoves and I have used them for over 20 years now. I hope that is helpful, all best wishes. Vince
Vincent Another informative video. I'm slightly surprised that you are reading 'Norwegain Wood' instead of The 'The Wood Fire Handbook', but I suppose you have to broaden your horizons.
Hi Michael, nice to hear from you, it is a good book, and it would seem a bit staged to be sat with my own book! Also it made me smile - hope life is good with you, winter seems to have come early this year. Vince
Tried it for the first time tonight and it's easy and simple to do, almost an hour in and it's still burning 🔥 slowly but steadily even without giving off that killer heat.
That's excellent - a really good start! I like that it is nearly a 'light and forget' technique, you can go off and do other things for a while. And, you are burning the smoke from the first minute the fire is lit!
Thanks - I learnt many wood fire things from the old woodsmen I worked with over the years, great that we now have UA-cam to share ideas - glad you liked it and the English accent! Best wishes, Vince
Hi ya , I noticed in one of your videos that you mentioned using softwoods such as pine / conifer what’s your experience with using these as it’s a bit of a grey area some people claim they shouldn’t be bent ? 👍🏻
Hi Matt, yes conifers are a big discussion point. I think some people have to burn conifer logs as that's mostly what they have. A friend of mine living in a mountain area has about 80% spruce - one of the worst firewoods, but it is all he has. But he does make sure that the logs have lost much of their resin before he burns them - he collects or stores logs that are over two years old, bark has fallen off and fairly dry. I live in a lowland area and can get most species, so I only use well-seasoned conifer just below the kindling with a top down fire as it catches so quickly. I think the key is to learn how to best use what wood species is available to you. The critical difference being that broadleaved trees mostly have a watery sap that dries out fairly quickly due to the tubular xylem vessels running along the logs. But the conifers have a sticky resinous sap that dries much more slowly, and they are further hindered in drying by their tracheid structure. And always to have plenty of secondary air in the stove to burn all of the conifer smoke - getting the most heat energy from each log and making the emissions as clean as possible. I hope that makes some sense! Best wishes, Vince
I've tried both top down and bottom up and I get far better results with bottom up and much less smoke. Just my opinion but I just can't get along with the trendy way if doing it
That is such a good question and so important. I only burn during the day and evening. Overnight burning is the cause of most problems in stoves and chimneys and takes real skill to get right. For me the big question is why. If you live in a really cold place ok, if your home is not well-insulated ok. But it is so easy to light a fire, I just set a new one in the morning. Plus I have a large brick chimney which acts as a massive storage heater. I think my next video will be about this question, All best with what you choose to do, Vince
I have never used a rocket burner, remiss of me. Although I have used a 'storm kettle' often, which is a variant - you are right, it would make a good video. All best. Vince
I’m sorry but this is absurd. Top down is simple, place three small split logs on the base, create a simple ‘jenga, structure of kindling with one natural firelighter. Door open until it takes, job done. Type of wood is totally irrelevant, albeit softwood will take faster. Simples 🙂
Fair enough, but you can do better. I enjoy knowing what wood I am burning, and where it is from, and building the best fire I can. But yes, you are right, if all that is wanted is to set fire to some dry logs and sticks - then anyone can do it with almost no knowledge. Your fire will take less tending if you build a second log layer, if possible with less 'Jenga' kindling. I guess the important thing is that we are both enjoying what we do - with only in-cycle carbon and no radioactive waste created! All best, Vince
I guess many good things are forgotten and have to be relearned, this is new to most people with wood stoves. The scouts were great back then - I was taught to light fires up in trees to prepare for a flood event - a skill I have never yet needed! All best. Vince
top down has existed for a few hundred years at least in Scandinavia, its not new, its like saying you just found the wheel and wondering if its a fad...
Fair enough - amazing that it has taken so long for this good technique to trickle out of Scandinavia, when all their other great ideas get picked up really quickly. Maybe it's because it is needed now that there is so much negative focus on smoke.
My understanding is that there is a massive difference between the release of fossilized carbon, and simply being a part of the current carbon cycle. Harvesting sustainably and burning efficiently is the key. If the wood is left to rot, the same carbon is released. The is no production of nuclear waste either. I am baffled how people can think that electricity is 'cleaner' when it is mostly produced with fossil fuels and nuclear. It seems there is no free lunch with home heating - all forms have some cost - insulation is probably the most important of all!
@@WoodFiresWithVince Not really. Each time you harvest a tree and plant a new one it takes 10 - 20 years for it to compensate. Wood being left to rot is necessary for biodiversity and if not can be used for biogas or biodiesel. It is complicated. Don´t get me wrong. I fell trees for heat myself and I have so much nettogrowth on my land that I do not plant anything. You are absolutely right - no free lunch...
It is, as you say, complicated. The woodlands that I harvest from are mature - and in British forestry terminology have reached, 'Normality' - i.e. all age classes are present. Therefore it is not the same as a clear-fell where, as you rightly say, the current annual increment is low in all the early years - even if the final mean annual increment is in proportion to the overall harvesting. I do strongly believe that, holistically, wood-fuel is one of the best renewables - if worked carefully. As I said, very little fossilized carbon released and no accumulation of ultra-toxic nuclear waste. I wish the insulation lobby were better organised, as they represent the easiest win. I suspect we could discuss this for hours - nice talking with you. Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince I live in Scandinavia and to be honest with you we have always watched the UK building practices with a sense of wonder. Up until a few decades ago one would even see water mains running on the outside of walls.....Nobody here would dream of building a house without at least 300mm of isolation in outer walls, ceiling and floors. Right back at you. Kenneth
The research ? 😂😆🤣 attempting to defy the laws of physics is never a good idea . Heat rises and that's that . aside from that what's the point of this nonsense , to decrease the amount of smoke at the first lighting of the day in the room or up the chimney ? the difference between the two methods is negligible . once the logs are fully engulfed in flame the amount of smoke going up the chimney is the same. it's important to get the temp of the fire box hot as soon as possible to promote complete combustion or as complete as you stove will allow . the tradional method does this waay faster than the top down method simply because heat rises . A match ignites the starter , the starter ignites the kindling and the kindling ignites the logs . this is all done almost simultaneously . there is a youtube channel where the guy was bragging saying his logs were fully ablaze in forty minutes . 😂 when i light my two ton soapstone oven the logs are ablaze in less than TWO minutes ! try this little experiment to illustrate my point. light a match in one hand . with the other hand hold a piece of paper UNDER the match about an inch away . what's the result? no ignition. now hold the paper above the match one inch . well you can guess what happens . heat rises and that is why the traditional method is, well , the traditional method .
Wood fires have had a bad press lately, mostly due to emissions up the chimney. I found a good deal of research that noted that traditional fires create most smoke in the first 15 to 20 minutes after lighting. Look it up - the difference is not negligible if many houses are lighting fires and the air is still. Let's do anything we can to keep wood fires legal. Vince
i disagree , i have a two ton downdraft soapstone oven with secondary combustion chambers . there is a momentary amount of smoke when lit just like when the starter is lit in top down . i close the feed door and open the air vents below the fire box which starts a massive draft speeding up the combustion of all the materials kindling and logs . the smoke ceases after about thirty seconds . in two minutes or less the box is fully engulfed in flame with no visible smoke . This all happens waay faster than with the top down method thus negating the initial smoke issue . A hot fast fire in the fire box has more complete combustion than a slower lower heat fire . so yes, the difference is negligible . as to lasting longer ? well it lasts longer because its burning slower and with less heat . A hotter fire combusts the wood faster and more completely than one that "lasts all evening " .so your stove is producing more unburned hydrocarbons than a hot fast burning one . if clean burning is what you desire then get rid of that iron beast and get a stove that has secondary combustion ,like a masonry oven . these are the cleanest burning stoves available . Of course burning wood is really the issue here so you and i can't claim we are being more or less green because of our starting method.
You could make some serious money recording audio books with that voice
Well, that is a lovely idea, a really good thing to do - thank you!
Tried this in my wood furnace today. It works.
Yes it was a surprise to me too! But it is a technique with real benefits I think. All best, Vince
i couldn't agree more with you.
Thanks - this really does work and is so much better than what most of us used to do! Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince it does and far, far less smoke which is great. i have told 2 friends about top down lighting and they laugh at me! i cannot convince them it's the way to go. strange.
@@markdyballuk They need to give it a try - even once should convince them!
Vincent I could literally just listen to you talk forever. Would love to see different wood on fire and a commentary on them. Also.loved your BbC podcasts. Cheers
Thanks Alex, I have some ideas for more videos I hope to make soon. I hope it all helps a bit for living with wood fires.
Excellent, thanks!
Thank you - I have just lit one for the evening - they really work! Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince I lit one here after watching your video, it's morning here in Alaska. No smoke this time!
@@JagLite Perfect - good job! Have a good winter.
Glad to hear your emphasis on doing what we can to burn wood as clean as possible. I have neighbors with terribly smoky chimneys, and they don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Unless one has a rocket mass heater or masonry stove, burning wood still produces the most particle pollution of any heat source. On the other hand, just keeping our property clean and safe I generate a lot of quality wood that would go to waste if I didn't heat the house with it.
All very true. The trick is to really learn how to 'drive' your stove and burn the smoke - getting the most heat and the least emissions. I would say that coal is worse and that was once very common. Wood as fuel is a good news story - but only if people understand the fuel and the stove - after all, we did evolve with wood fires. Have a good winter. Vince
Stumbled on this channel after discovering the top down lighting from last week from a US video - Gets our 6kw stove up and running in 5 mins to 350F and as I only have ash to hand by choosing my splits I’ll get 2-3 hours before reloading - after a week of doing this I am getting longer burns loading the stove and it’s saving maybe 2-3 log rounds per day - enjoying the videos in Early Nov 22 and still to get the gas central heating on !
Yes absolutely - there are so many advantages of top down - odd really that it is such a relatively recent technique. Burning the smoke at first lighting is a big deal and really helpful. May you dodge the gas heating for a while yet! Best wishes, Vince
Been using top down fires for ever. Never lets me down.
I too have a clear view vision 500, except that mine’s a high top which means that it puts a little bit more heat into the room (larger distribution area) but there’s nowhere to perch my coffee pot 😕damn it!
Anyhow, this begs a question because you’re a wood burning enthusiast but the clear view vision 500 is a multifuel stove with a grate for coal burning built in. Multi-fuel stoves can be very efficient but not as efficient in burning either fuel as a stove specifically designed for one or the other would be.
I’ve read that people who burn nothing except wood often fit a flat plate in the bottom of multi-fuel stoves to blank over the coal grate / shut off the route to the ash pan to convert them into true wood burners and make an efficiency gain. It’s a simple conversion that only requires a flat plate dropping on top of the grate, so quick, easy and cheap to do.
I noted from the way that you adjusted the air intake wheel that feeds air in through the grate for coal burning that you’ve left yours in its original ‘not as efficient for burning wood’ state with an active grate.
Could you help out a fellow clear view vision 500 owner by explaining why you’ve chosen to keep and use a coal grate rather than popping plate in for an easy efficiency gain?
Many thanks😊
A very interesting question. Two things really. Firstly I never take out all of the wood ash as I like the embers to sit on a bed of white ash as I feel they then glow for longer. Secondly, perhaps just because I am used to it, I like being able to control the two air flows. I think I usually settle on about 85/90% secondary air, to burn the smoke, etc. and about 10/15% primary air coming up through the embers. So I do massively restrict the primary air - but not totally. I too have thought about a plate, but never have used one - I might be wrong, but I feel that the way I work burns well and gets the heat from my logs. I feel that my focus on getting my logs as dry as I can is the most important thing in burning efficiently, boiling off the moisture in logs is a huge waste of heat energy. Thanks for raising this. All best. Vince
Your "why" was very thoughtful, and you have a great outlook on life and cant wait to hear what else you think and look forward to your next videos! cheers!
Many thanks for your comment, there is a lot to think about with wood fires - and almost all of it is good! Best wishes, Vince
Great video, filled with beauty and wisdom.
Thanks Heather, there is something wonderfully ancient and calming about living with woodfires.
@@WoodFiresWithVince Indeed :)
Watched your video. This is the only way I'll start a fire now.
I know, at first it seems a bit weird - but it is more efficient and easier, as long as you have some skill with logs and fire lighting. Thanks for your comment. Vince
Great house, interesting video. Thanks!
Thanks Eugene, I will be glad when this heat-wave summer is over and I can get back to the pleasure of an evening wood fire. best wishes, Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince Vince, the only thing that makes me happy in this weather is that the firewood dries quickly. I am watching your videos from Ukraine and it helps me prepare for a long winter. Thank you
@@eugenekononets843 You're right, it's been a great summer for drying logs! I hope you have a good winter, in all respects. Vince
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I burn since many years top down! Its the best method to decrease Emissions. Greets!
You are right, and I was slow learning this technique. It was being pushed hard in Norway in 2010 I believe - it definitely works well.
Plus it heats the chimney/flue faster and warms your stove quicker.
Read your book a couple of years ago, and got my Clock stove 13 months ago in place of an open fire and two electric storage heaters. Still learning how to make a fire last all evening though! Used kiln dried logs in my first winter, now using my own seasoned (since last April) logs. My moisture meter tells me they are dry, but my stove seems to need more air than last winter. Any thoughts? Just subscribed.
Hi Phil, No answer leaps to mind about the air - maybe it is just that our job is to get the airflow right, and this will differ with things like: different quality logs, how windy or cold it is, and how clear the chimney flue is. I just watch the fire and give it enough secondary air (above the fire to burn the smoke) to create lazy rolling flames - I also check in daylight that there is almost no visible smoke coming out of the chimney, once it is hot. And yes the fire will only last a few hours if the lower layer of logs are dry and a very dense species - for me that's something like elm, hawthorn, oak or field maple. It takes a while to learn to run the stove really well, but it's worth it. Have a great winter. Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince Thanks Vince. Next on the agenda is to re-read your book...🙂
Very relaxing, you should do more fireside conversations/discussions
Nice idea - thank you. I'll have to get on with getting the Christmas trees ready soon - but I will come back to your idea as fireside chats about logs, firelighting and wood fire cooking are great. Vince
A great suggestion by KP, I find it very relaxing and informative and I always learn something from watching your videos.
Many thanks.
This was a great video. I didn't expect a firelighting video to have so much philosophy.
Thank you and an interesting thought! I think some philosophy is all part of it, and the anthropology of fire is even more interesting.
@@WoodFiresWithVince I couldn't agree more. Thank you.
It was only this year I tried the top-down fire and never looked back. My stove/chimney don't draw very well, and with the old method I had a hell of a job lighting the fire and there was a lot of smoke blowing back into the room. Then I had to coax it for ages. All that's gone now. It's more or less light, close door when ablaze, sit back and enjoy. A variation I just came across is the V or cradle fire. You lay the bottom layers as before, but then leave a gap in the centre for the top layer and place logs to the side. When using your method with varying wood types there would be conifer wood to the side and some under the gap. Put your kindling in the gap. I guess the advantage would be that the kindling fire is somewhat insulated and can burn hotter.
What I'd like to try next is to make an even more efficient stove taking the best aspects of the rocket mass heater, masonary and TLUD stove to burn all the smoke and keep most of the heat in the house.
That is so good to hear. I too was slow to pick up on 'top downs', but they really are a win win! Masonry stoves are fantastic, but little tradition of them in the uk. Good luck with your ideas.
@@WoodFiresWithVince my guess about the lack of masonry stove tradition here is unpredictable winter weather. We can go from arctic blast to spring like weather (as in the last few days) in a matter of hours. Those masonry monsters are about as easy to throttle as a super tanker on the high sea. I have a tiny house, and would build a very minimal masonry stove that would hopefully just give comfortable steady background heat, moderated through adjusting my clothes layers, if need be.
super video as always, would like to see more videos in the near future, as they are so relaxing
greetings from slovenija
cheers
Dear Tjasa, thank you. I love the subject and have ideas for more videos, I just must find the time to make them! My best wishes for the Christmas season. Vince
I predominantly burn spruce, I was doing the top down method but something for you to consider if you have a newer wood stove, whether it is catalytic or secondary air if you build too big of a fire Ie. fill your firebox all the way and light a top down fire you will be over firing your stove. The effects of doing this repeatedly are that you will damage/ destroy your cat and you can melt / destroy your air tubes. This is a great method to use but you also have to be aware of this and practice a good bit of common sense. The goal here is to start your fire and get your stove to temp quickly and efficiently. So by all means use this method but try to avoid stacking your logs too much above where your fire bricks are sitting in the stove. a good rule to use is to try to leave 6" of clearance minimum below your air tubes / cat. box. The new style stoves cannot be brilliantly efficient if you melt them.
Thank you, a really helpful observation. I have never built to the top of my stove as I want the first lit fire to have plenty of air and little smoke - but you make a really good point beyond what I was thinking. Have a good winter. Vince
I don't have the luxury of all these different kinds of wood to start a fire with. But since I live in Greece I can get olive wood. Some is very old, very dense, and burns a long time. It really needs to be seasoned well and dry, if you want to burn it.
I think that you have one of the best fire woods in the world. You do have a luxury wood! If you make top down fires - with maybe a bit of pine or something lighter to go on the top - I hope you enjoy really excellent fires. The challenge in England in part is getting our wood seasoned properly, so much rain this year. Best wishes, Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince Thank you, I put my wood out in a South facing direction in the spring and the hot Greek sun bakes it all summer. It really does a good job, Vincent
Really grateful again for an informative video. Thank you for ratcheting it down just enough for the beginners. It’s our first wood burning winter and it will be quite the learning curve. Today I grabbed the wagon and collected sappy pine cones and birch bark. The wood shed is built and stacked according to your book. The stove should be in place in about two weeks! Excited to put your techniques to work but a bit nervous at the same time. It may even be a bit comical for the first go as I can just picture myself as if I’m in the kitchen with the cookbook in one hand and flour all over the place only your book will be in one hand and the other will be trying to get the pine cone unstuck from my fingers before I catch my hand on fire! Your voice is always so calm and collected. I’m wondering if maybe your drink is a hot toddy? ☺️
Hi Valerie, I think my drink is mostly tea! Sometimes posh tea like Russian Caravan, but decent brandy has a place too! Now, your new stove - learning to drive it will be great, a whole new world opens for you both now. The big things are: check your wood is dry enough (hopefully moisture content about 20% or less) and learn how to work with the air flows in your stove. And enjoy this your fires - the warmth and the light.
You’ll get used to it and by the end of this winter you’ll be a PRO!....
How did last winter go? Just about to start this year
New subscriber 👍 very relaxing informative videos. A pleasure to watch.
Hello from Norway. 😊
Great video, I must practice this.
I have been making my own wood for a few years, great “hobby”.
We mainly have Wood Willow, Spruce, Birch and Rowan Tree on my small Ranch.
Hi, thank you, the birch and willow are fairly quick drying, the spruce probably needs a bit longer - there is an old tradition in England not to burn Rowan, something about getting witches I think!? But as that's your one hard species you might have to risk it! I hitch-hiked around southern Norway once, absolutely loved the country and the people. Best wishes, and yes it is a great hobby, Vince
I use "top down" AND "bottom up" simultaneously to start my home-made wood burner. I ignite the top only, to allow the chimney to heat up and as the embers fall through the stack of kindling then the bottom ignites. This method gives me a completely smoke free fire very quickly, with the door closed. Of course the fire starter stack, I call it, is surrounded by large dry logs that will burn for at least 90 minutes or more before adding more fuel.
A good technique. That pretty much describes a perfect modern fire lighting - the key is not smothering the first flames to make as little smoke as possible, and you've got that.
have you a video on drift wood? from the beach etc.
Interesting point! I do not have a video on driftwood, but have often burnt it with sea-coal found while beach-combing. My main worry about it is I am not keen to put salt into my stove and chimney. Fine while everything is dry, but during times when I don't have a fire I suspect the salt would begin to corrode the stove, flue, whatever. As I am sure you know, the deep yellow flame driftwood gives is due to the sodium load within the wood. So for me, driftwood is great for any outdoor fire, but I don't use it much in the home. Have a good winter. All best, Vince
Hi Vince are you still out there if so i would be very interested on how you did your under floor heating as we have a rayburn wood burner to and would like to do the same hope you are well all the best Budo
Hi, good to see all you are doing, it looks great. My cottage is a new build, using reclaimed materials where I can and is massively insulated. So my under-floor heating was easy as we did it as the floor was laid. So I am sorry to say I have no clever ideas or knowledge for laying underfloor heating in an existing old property. I hope you find someone who can help. All best wishes, Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince
Thank you and I now burn top down too buddy cheers
Interesting video. You have a very easy presenting style, very relaxed. I enjoyed that, cheers.
Thanks Stuart - I think I find fires very calming, and that helps!
Useful video! Have just bought the Clear view Pioneer 400 to get installed.
I believe its the smaller version of yours. Any tips for using this stove?
Not really, they are excellent stoves. Plenty of air at first to get it hot, then balance the air for a rolling flame, for me about 10% primary air (coming up through the logs) and then control the fire with the secondary air. Enjoy a warm winter! Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVinceThanks for the reply so mine isn't much smaller then?
Thanks for your helpful advice.
Do you find it likes certain species of wood or not too fussy.
@@mattseymour8637 If you can choose your wood, then the common hardwoods like beech, birch, sycamore, ash, with some elm and oak make great fires. But the real key is that your logs are dry and you learn to get the airflow correct. And top down fires help reduce any smoke.
@@WoodFiresWithVince I do sell firewood so supply isn't a problem and have a mix of good hardwood.
I will keep that in mind.
Do you use any softwood at all mixed in with the hardwood?
@@mattseymour8637 A little pine, or spruce from my Christmas trees, just to help get it going.
So David attinborough voice and excellent video
What an amazing video, I moved to a v cold old cottage with a vision 500 and have tried everything to get a decent heat fire beyond 400c, even have the Norwegian wood book. The folks at clear view advised against top down but you’ve inspired me to have another go. A burning question 😂 but did you eventually shut down the air wheel fully, when I do that even after an hour the logs although well seasoned just start charring and temp reduces. Everyone seems to have a different view of clear view controls online but your video is the most useful. Great content!
Hello, firstly, your firewood must be good quality and dry for a top down fire to work well. To your main question. I would never close either of the air controls. Once the fire is going I reduce my primary air by closing the wheel to be open about one full turn. The secondary air is the most important as it is needed to burn the smoke and pyrogenous vapours. I adjust the control (low down brass knob) so that I have a rolling slow flame - and leave it like that. I never fully shut either control. I have had Clearview 500s for well over 20 years now and they are great stoves. All best wishes with your fires. Vince
Hello! Just watched your video. Very well done! You should get a stove fan on top of your stove. It will change your life just like the top down wood fire did! I got a stove fan in our summer cabin and it makes the cabin warm so much quicker in the fall and spring when we need to heat it up!
Fair point - I know they are good and the engineering is really clever. I built the house I live in with the lowest ceilings I was allowed, so as not to waste my heat up above me! But, as you say, a stove top fan for the coldest days would make it even better! Thanks for your thoughts, Vince
The pine cone firelighters, can I ask what you are using to stuff in the pine cones?
I use a little spruce tree resin from my Christmas trees, and bits of birch bark.
We have a large garden with lots of trees. When we pay the tree surgeons thousands to come and do their thing I’m keen to get the maximum benefit out of the end result. Chop what I can, stack it up with the un-split chopped logs and let it season.
Mother Nature couldn’t give two hoots whether the wood is eaten by the woodlice, or whether you burn it to the benefit of your cold toes. The earth will continue to rotate, the sun will continue to shine and trees will continue to grow.
The problem with people idolising wood as a fuel is that places like Drax power station are converted to burning the stuff instead of coal.
Where does a monster like Drax get its wood from? It receives £800m in U.K. taxpayer subsidies to cut down and burn millions of tonnes of ancient forests in North Carolina in the US and British Columbia in Canada. Don’t tell me that’s sustainable. It takes 10-30 years for trees to grow, and a second to vaporise them.
Bless what god provides. It’s all for you. Do not curse any of it. I’m talking about fossil fuels.
Interesting! Yes many people do not realise that the carbon dioxide released when burning a log, would also be released if the log was left to rot away. And broadly, yes, the whole subject is far more complicated than at first seems. The politicians go for popular sound-bites and this can lead to ill considered policies. If you have not listened to Dr Judith Curry, you may find her views interesting - the opinion that is seldom heard, right or wrong she should be heard. Vince ua-cam.com/video/YBdmppcfixM/v-deo.html
@@WoodFiresWithVince I have to say she talks a lot of sense.
The idea that people think they can control the planet’s temperature by restricting the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is patently ridiculous.
@@Himoutdoors I am not given to conspiracy theories, but her view that the 'scientific consensus' is a construct - with any naysayers side-lined was interesting. As was her plea for a working alterative before we deconstruct the fossil fuel economy. Sadly she seemed anti-wood!
@@WoodFiresWithVince well she doesn’t have to burn it if she doesn’t want. Do what fits in with your worldview, bless the gifts that life gives you, and never mind what others think.
Sometimes when I''m lighing the log burner I think it'd be great if the vents could be regulated with my phone haha so lazy and totally missing the point I know :-)
What kind of stove is that at the end looks like the ash can fall through to the tray I’ve been looking for a model like that if so
Yes it does have a grate above an ash pan. It is a Clearview Vision 500. I have chosen a multi-fuel stove to have the flexibility to use other fuel - for if I got injured, or really ill or something. I believe they are a slightly less efficient burn than a true modern woodburning-only stove, but I try and make up for that by drying my logs well and maintaining a careful air flow in the stove. They are great stoves and I have used them for over 20 years now. I hope that is helpful, all best wishes. Vince
I could definitely fall asleep to your voice!!
Vincent Another informative video. I'm slightly surprised that you are reading 'Norwegain Wood' instead of The 'The Wood Fire Handbook', but I suppose you have to broaden your horizons.
Hi Michael, nice to hear from you, it is a good book, and it would seem a bit staged to be sat with my own book! Also it made me smile - hope life is good with you, winter seems to have come early this year. Vince
Tried it for the first time tonight and it's easy and simple to do, almost an hour in and it's still burning 🔥 slowly but steadily even without giving off that killer heat.
That's excellent - a really good start!
I like that it is nearly a 'light and forget' technique, you can go off and do other things for a while. And, you are burning the smoke from the first minute the fire is lit!
Nice I use tamarack and spruce I’m going to give this a go. Thanks
Vince your a smart man we must all evolve or die
Thanks - I learnt many wood fire things from the old woodsmen I worked with over the years, great that we now have UA-cam to share ideas - glad you liked it and the English accent! Best wishes, Vince
Can you tell me the make and model of your stove,please?...
Hi, the stove is a Clearview Vision 500, about 8 kw output I think. Seems a good stove and I'm happy with it. Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince Thank you
Hi ya , I noticed in one of your videos that you mentioned using softwoods such as pine / conifer what’s your experience with using these as it’s a bit of a grey area some people claim they shouldn’t be bent ? 👍🏻
Hi Matt, yes conifers are a big discussion point. I think some people have to burn conifer logs as that's mostly what they have. A friend of mine living in a mountain area has about 80% spruce - one of the worst firewoods, but it is all he has. But he does make sure that the logs have lost much of their resin before he burns them - he collects or stores logs that are over two years old, bark has fallen off and fairly dry. I live in a lowland area and can get most species, so I only use well-seasoned conifer just below the kindling with a top down fire as it catches so quickly. I think the key is to learn how to best use what wood species is available to you. The critical difference being that broadleaved trees mostly have a watery sap that dries out fairly quickly due to the tubular xylem vessels running along the logs. But the conifers have a sticky resinous sap that dries much more slowly, and they are further hindered in drying by their tracheid structure. And always to have plenty of secondary air in the stove to burn all of the conifer smoke - getting the most heat energy from each log and making the emissions as clean as possible. I hope that makes some sense! Best wishes, Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince yes it does thanks for taking the time to reply 👍🏻
I've tried both top down and bottom up and I get far better results with bottom up and much less smoke. Just my opinion but I just can't get along with the trendy way if doing it
Interesting, every fire is unique I guess. Many people use a sort of half-way house, lighting the kindling just below the top.
Great vid but multifuel stoves are much easier than traditional wood stoves for lighting the fire I have found in my experience
Interesting point - something I will ask people about. Many thanks, yours, Vince
Thanks, do you burn day and night or just wait for the evening to light up?
That is such a good question and so important. I only burn during the day and evening. Overnight burning is the cause of most problems in stoves and chimneys and takes real skill to get right. For me the big question is why. If you live in a really cold place ok, if your home is not well-insulated ok. But it is so easy to light a fire, I just set a new one in the morning. Plus I have a large brick chimney which acts as a massive storage heater. I think my next video will be about this question, All best with what you choose to do, Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince thanks,I will look out for the new episode!.
Brilliant video make a rocket burner video please
I have never used a rocket burner, remiss of me. Although I have used a 'storm kettle' often, which is a variant - you are right, it would make a good video. All best. Vince
I did see he never throw it in the washing machine
I’m sorry but this is absurd. Top down is simple, place three small split logs on the base, create a simple ‘jenga, structure of kindling with one natural firelighter. Door open until it takes, job done. Type of wood is totally irrelevant, albeit softwood will take faster.
Simples 🙂
Fair enough, but you can do better. I enjoy knowing what wood I am burning, and where it is from, and building the best fire I can. But yes, you are right, if all that is wanted is to set fire to some dry logs and sticks - then anyone can do it with almost no knowledge. Your fire will take less tending if you build a second log layer, if possible with less 'Jenga' kindling. I guess the important thing is that we are both enjoying what we do - with only in-cycle carbon and no radioactive waste created! All best, Vince
I was shown this in the boy scouts in the 70s can't see why anyone thinks its new.
I guess many good things are forgotten and have to be relearned, this is new to most people with wood stoves. The scouts were great back then - I was taught to light fires up in trees to prepare for a flood event - a skill I have never yet needed! All best. Vince
where is Vince now?
top down has existed for a few hundred years at least in Scandinavia, its not new, its like saying you just found the wheel and wondering if its a fad...
Fair enough - amazing that it has taken so long for this good technique to trickle out of Scandinavia, when all their other great ideas get picked up really quickly. Maybe it's because it is needed now that there is so much negative focus on smoke.
I burn the worst wood possible, because thats all its good for creating heat. Just make sure its dry
Does not realise carbon ? What do you think is burning ?
My understanding is that there is a massive difference between the release of fossilized carbon, and simply being a part of the current carbon cycle. Harvesting sustainably and burning efficiently is the key. If the wood is left to rot, the same carbon is released. The is no production of nuclear waste either. I am baffled how people can think that electricity is 'cleaner' when it is mostly produced with fossil fuels and nuclear. It seems there is no free lunch with home heating - all forms have some cost - insulation is probably the most important of all!
@@WoodFiresWithVince
Not really. Each time you harvest a tree and plant a new one it takes 10 - 20 years for it to compensate. Wood being left to rot is necessary for biodiversity and if not can be used for biogas or biodiesel. It is complicated. Don´t get me wrong. I fell trees for heat myself and I have so much nettogrowth on my land that I do not plant anything. You are absolutely right - no free lunch...
It is, as you say, complicated. The woodlands that I harvest from are mature - and in British forestry terminology have reached, 'Normality' - i.e. all age classes are present. Therefore it is not the same as a clear-fell where, as you rightly say, the current annual increment is low in all the early years - even if the final mean annual increment is in proportion to the overall harvesting. I do strongly believe that, holistically, wood-fuel is one of the best renewables - if worked carefully. As I said, very little fossilized carbon released and no accumulation of ultra-toxic nuclear waste. I wish the insulation lobby were better organised, as they represent the easiest win. I suspect we could discuss this for hours - nice talking with you. Vince
@@WoodFiresWithVince I live in Scandinavia and to be honest with you we have always watched the UK building practices with a sense of wonder. Up until a few decades ago one would even see water mains running on the outside of walls.....Nobody here would dream of building a house without at least 300mm of isolation in outer walls, ceiling and floors. Right back at you.
Kenneth
I think we are finally learning these lessons!
That seat doesn’t look comfy
Well spotted Anna! My last house was a much smaller cottage and I bought two of these little hard chairs to go by the fire. All best, Vince
The research ? 😂😆🤣
attempting to defy the laws of physics is never a good idea . Heat rises and that's that . aside from that what's the point of this nonsense , to decrease the amount of smoke at the first lighting of the day in the room or up the chimney ? the difference between the two methods is negligible . once the logs are fully engulfed in flame the amount of smoke going up the chimney is the same.
it's important to get the temp of the fire box hot as soon as possible to promote complete combustion or as complete as you stove will allow .
the tradional method does this waay faster than the top down method simply because heat rises .
A match ignites the starter , the starter ignites the kindling and the kindling ignites the logs . this is all done almost simultaneously .
there is a youtube channel where the guy was bragging saying his logs were fully ablaze in forty minutes . 😂
when i light my two ton soapstone oven the logs are ablaze in less than TWO minutes !
try this little experiment to illustrate my point.
light a match in one hand . with the other hand hold a piece of paper UNDER the match about an inch away . what's the result? no ignition. now hold the paper above the match one inch . well you can guess what happens .
heat rises and that is why the traditional method is, well , the traditional method .
Wood fires have had a bad press lately, mostly due to emissions up the chimney. I found a good deal of research that noted that traditional fires create most smoke in the first 15 to 20 minutes after lighting. Look it up - the difference is not negligible if many houses are lighting fires and the air is still. Let's do anything we can to keep wood fires legal. Vince
i disagree , i have a two ton downdraft soapstone oven with secondary combustion chambers .
there is a momentary amount of smoke when lit just like when the starter is lit in top down . i close the feed door and open the air vents below the fire box which starts a massive draft speeding up the combustion of all the materials kindling and logs . the smoke ceases after about thirty seconds . in two minutes or less the box is fully engulfed in flame with no visible smoke . This all happens waay faster than with the top down method thus negating the initial smoke issue .
A hot fast fire in the fire box has more complete combustion than a slower lower heat fire . so yes, the difference is negligible . as to lasting longer ? well it lasts longer because its burning slower and with less heat . A hotter fire combusts the wood faster and more completely than one that "lasts all evening " .so your stove is producing more unburned hydrocarbons than a hot fast burning one . if clean burning is what you desire then get rid of that iron beast and get a stove that has secondary combustion ,like a masonry oven . these are the cleanest burning stoves available .
Of course burning wood is really the issue here so you and i can't claim we are being more or less green because of our starting method.
@@siriosstar4789 We disagree massively it seems - so be it. Your stove is the best, but is very rarely fitted in the UK.