My father is a Vietnam vet. My brothers and myself have served in the desert war era with my brother seeing the bulk of the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Our discussions are sad and grim. My wife is Vietnamese. I am patriotic and fly my countries flag every day in my yard. I feel betrayed by the federal government as we all do. Most of us have the mental scars of war. We dream horrible dreams. I weep sometimes. Mostly in the shower so my wife doesn’t see. War is horrible. Men who seek war for their benefits and political gain are demons. God help us all.
One of the very best single volume histories of that very long war. The first I’ve read in which actions and decisions in both North and South Vietnam are addressed. One of the few that focuses on Le Duan as the spine of North Vietnamese resolve, and the only one in which Bill Colby, then chief of the CIA’s effort in Vietnam and later Director of the Agency, is quoted as saying that during the entirety of the war, we did not have a single reliable source of intelligence (i.e. a human asset) inside North Vietnam. Incredible. Hastings has written a terrific work.
@Fremont- Will have to check it out. I really have not read a detailed blow by blow of the ground. I am currently reading about the Gulf of Tonkin. Like you suggest, the US was inserting commando teams as part of OpPlan 34A, and they all get captured right away. Many are also simply incompetent.
Best lecture on the topic since he talks of the disgusting brutality of the war in personal terms and never once rehashing what anyone who's seriously interested in the subject has already heard numerous times.
Some in the audience sat stunned into contemplation at the reality spoken by Max. At the commencement of questions at 55:17, look at the body language of the man in the dark blue jumper in the front row. He sits staring ahead like his own belief system has been shattered. He is probably a veteran who felt he fought for a noble cause. I also fought in Vietnam with Australian forces from 1969 to 1971. I was a military field medic and at our field hospital at our base in Nui Dat, we had more Vietnamese and Vietcong patients than our own. Our soldiers were much more highly trained volunteers than the average US conscript. They were acutely aware that they could perform a humanitarian role behind the military/political facade. As a result, we accepted nearly 100,000 refugees onto our shores and Australia and Vietnam enjoy a deep and long lasting friendship. Many of our veterans have since paid visits to the area of our operations and the emotions of regret at the loss of life run deep. Yet, it's the Vietnamese generosity and capacity to forgive that welcomes them.
Just finished this on Audiobook. Wish he'd narrated it beyond the preface/intro because his words through his voice ohmystars! "Inferno" was excellent as well.
It’s a great presentation because Max Hastings has the gift of making his chosen subject relevant and fresh, fifty years after the event. His style and method, which he puts great energy into, is an implicit tribute to all Vietnam veterans today: as soldiers and human beings in a very difficult political time for not just America, but the world. The fact that Hastings was a young reporter on the ground in Vietnam, in the late 1960s I believe, only solidifies further his authority over the history of the war, and his empathy with the participants.
I am British veteran of Afghanistan and he is 100% right about the look of hate in the faces of just the locals in Afghanistan. I could see them thinking about how they would kill me. Were were trying to do hearts and minds but how can you do that with people who want to kill you. It was a wasted effort. But at least I can call myself a veteran
@@82zerox Not that we achieved much but we did try and make an effort. I think in the end the Afghanistan government was not worth propping up or dying for. When the president escaped with 169 million dollars and the Afghan soldiers not being paid or supplied in months having the choice of fighting to the death or surrender and go home I don't blame them. Make your assessment.
@Oliver Mayo Tony Blair is a liberal their mindsets are twisted. Who knows what their end goal is or what their idea of victory is. Even the word liberals is double speak because they are the most illiberal people going. They are quite capable of repression usually to us. We live in dangerous times and things can go many ways. What is certain is the Western world especially America is going to be different. What we thought was the US is going to be different or is it just our perception of it
Max Hasting’s book is the best of many I have read about the war in Vietnam from 1945 to 1975. It gives a very good account of everything that happened and why the French and Americans could not defeat a peasant army that was prepared to suffer so many casualties in the goal of reunifying Vietnam under Communism. The Americans, especially, did not understand the Vietnamese and their culture, often clashing with their South Vietnamese allies - the American and Vietnamese cultures were so different that it was hard to believe they existed on the same planet. Perhaps the Americans would have fared better if they had acted with more sensitivity towards the Vietnamese and had not committed crimes like at Mai Lai in 1969, though those crimes were committed by only a small minority of soldiers. In the end though, as Mr. Hastings says, it would have been better to leave the Vietnamese themselves to discover that the theories of Marx, Lenin and Stalin did not work, and appalling as their experiment with Communism was, the result of the US attempt and the French attempt to prevent that experiment by force of arms was appalling as well. Vietnam showed that very often countries’ problems can not be solved by foreigners, those problems can only be solved by the indigenous people of those countries. For Anyone interested in the war in Vietnam, I would certainly recommend a visit to the battlefield site of Dien Bien Phu, where The French lost to the Vietminh led by General Giap. There is an excellent museum there and you can see many relics and remains from the battle, such as the French Command bunker, Giap’s Headquarters, trenches and bomb craters.
Contrary to what one hears from many of these speakers (who say "American LOST the Vietnam War)...The American military WON the Vietnam War. It DESTROYED the Vietcong in 1968. It DESTROYED the North Vietnamese Army in 1972 when the North attempted to invade the South. And it all but DESTROYED the North Vietnamese capital, Hanoi, in December of 1972 using B-52 bombers. The North was FORCED to return to the Paris Peace table and sign a treaty that guaranteed the independence and freedom of South Vietnam. At that time Nixon PROMISED the South Vietnamese the USA would AGAIN use B-52's to stop any future North Vietnamese invasion and that America would continue to support South Vietnam and its militlary. Of course those promises ended when Nixon was forced to vacate the Presidency. Two years after America pulled its troops out of South Vietnam, America was a different place, with a different President and a VERY different Congress. At the height of the 1975 North Vietnamese invasion the leftist American Congress not ONLY cancelled all funding to the South Vietnamese militlary...it cancelled ANY use of B-52's against the invading North's forces. When the South Vietnamese troops heard about this betrayal, they IMMEDIATELY cessed fighting and fled south to Saigon. Again...The American mililtary WON the Vietnam War. The leftist American Congress AIDED AND ABETTED the North Vietnamese government and military in overrunning the South and murdering many of its people.
His book is excellent and he clearly has great insight into the conflict. What I don't understand is how, after all this time, he still mispronounces Vietnamese words and names of important people (specifically the [d] sound, which is pronounced [z] in the North and [j/y] in Southern Vietnam). _Áo dài_ -> [ao yai] _Lê Duan_ -> [le yuan] _Ngô Đình Diệm_ -> [ngo din yieem] I live in Saigon so the examples above are in the Southern accent.
I once asked Vietnam’s foreign minister Nguyen Co Thach why, after his country was attacked by the Khmer Rouge, it had not taken its case to the UN instead of invading Cambodia late in 1978. ‘We do not have such a high regard for the UN as you do,’ he replied. ‘How so?’ ‘Because during the last forty years we have been invaded by four of the five permanent members of the Security Council.’
It's complex. The victorious North Vietnamese were unquestionably repressive, but Vietnam also subsequently enjoyed something like 8% annual growth for 20 years 1990-2010. Perhaps that's the victory of sorts for the USA to which Hastings alludes. Vietnam evolved into an authoritarian-but-capitalist state? ... I did a bicycle tour Hanoi-to-Vientiane in 2011 and was treated so well there. In rural, northwestern Vietnam, the kids would line the roads to give us high-fives as we passed.
I think you missed the point. Ho Chi Minh became a communist because he was a nationalist and the the only people who would support him in the fight against French colonialism were the communists. Just because Vietnam is capitalist does not mean that US has finally won. The fight between the US and Soviet Union was not really about ideologies but more about which country would be dominant. Instead of being communist the Soviet Union could have been fascist or even capitalist and there still would have been a struggle. Today the US sees China as a threat not because it is a "communist" country but simply that it could displace the US as the most powerful country. After all in the 1970s there were books about "the coming war between US and Japan," and as far as I can tell Japan is and was a capitalist and democratic country.
Almost completed his Vietnam book. Excellent research and information on both sides, but I would have spent more time discussing the effect of the draft on young people. The Ken Burns series makes this a key issue. But it is still the best book I have read on the war...
Yep, same principle that no amount of firepower and foreign support in defence of a deeply corrupt and unpopular government will succeed agaisnt an insurgent campaign.
Brave young men and woman have died for nothing in every war. Only by facing the truth can we not repeat mistakes. If you are only learning now that the war in Vietnam was a colossal lie, you are a fool.
Hastings seems very passionate about this particular conflict, which is unusual for him. I have come on UA-cam and Slated America and its Colonial past and present , But when you look at the veterans in the room I feel nothing but pity for them. It must be hard to face the fact that you fought a pointless war and it had all been for nothing and that you had been lied to. The whole thing should be a lesson on the futility of war but will we learn from it?
I don't think he argues the aims of the war were necessarily bad, it was more that there wasn't a proper plan for victory. Like he says success justifies everything, nobody questions the wisdom now of the Korean War because South Korea is a modern thriving democracy.
He left out how Kennedy had worked behind scenes to have Diem removed, and a clumsy series of regimes followed. I am not sure how he will handle Democrats refusing to fund support for for ARVN according to the treaty obligations
@@imnotgayyy8489 how so?I read the letter to Kennedy by Diem explaining why he would not leave Viet Nam as Kennedy had offered.It was in a class where we were studying Pentagon Papers. The Democrats refusal to fund our promised support to Viet Nam included in the Treaty is in the records.Communism almost starved Viet Nam.In 78 they released the ARVN Officers and others from prisons, and supported a somewhat free economy. They might e saying they still love Lenin, but there political self interests are putting VN in a de-facto alliance with Phil, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, HK and South Korea as a balsnce to Maoist China
entire 20th century was rife w/economic disaster wrapped in nationalism,warfare&conflict resolution that brought more&more economic chaos. great talk. G.I.Davis sr4Jan2024
'Like all wars, neither side held a monopoly on virtue or misconduct'. Very interesting, can we say the same about Britain and Germany during the second world war?
@@emceha I and most other people without an axe to grind acknowledge that the calculated slaughter of millions of Jews outweighs collateral damage in the pursuit of strategic objectives (the German industrial base). The slaughter was senseless - all of it - but the Nazis were clearly the bad guys in WWII. Full stop. Only a rabid Anglophobe would argue otherwise.
No, we can't. Funny how American are so quick to pretend that they singlehandedly won World War II but are nowhere to be seen when alleged Allied war crimes are discussed. Fuck off.
@ the british and Americans did technically use slave labour, after the war ended, German POWs were housed in appalling conditions and used as slaves, including clearing mines, in contravention of the Geneva convention
5 років тому
@@edoris9021 I did say "neither the UK or Germany had a monopoly of misconduct during the second world" I could also have added the USSR and the USA even France had used German prisoners of war to clear up the post war mess. I really don't see how the perfectly understandable behaviour by the allies could be compared to being on the same level of the atrocities caused by the forces of NAZISM. I would be surprised if anyone including most of todays Germans would seriously think the crimes of their NAZI ancestors can in anyway be compared to the post war actions of the victors.
Bernard fall gives an account of the french experience in the indochina War 1946.54 and the operations Of the gcma special forces in Counterinsurgency which the American advisers took over in Second indochina war Both being failures!
Wonder what his view is on how we could have avoided the war and gained influence at the same time. Ho Chi Minh had requested American backing after WW2 and our OSS had had advised that we help him or risk having to fight him in 10 years time. We chose to back France and the rest is history
The draftee forces in vietnam were 25%. They suffered 30.4% combat deaths. I think draftees filled out the infantry ranks to a higher degree because they were not trained to higher skilled MOSs and therefore were more "expendable".
If China has a 5 year drought will they buy rice from the Annan people or take it by force. America could someday be militarily supporting Vietnam. Proud of the troops that served there.
He uncovered tales from the French Indochina war that were horrific. The communists would display French heads on spikes for example. If only we’d had people like him elected to Congress.
He's a good military author, but the Vietnam war is too complex to cover in a short lecture. The one thing to take from it is it would have been better if America had not engaged in the war. The Vietnamese wanted independence, not to expand world communism. That was proved when they had border clashes with the Chinese after the war,their former allies. It was politics nothing else.
It’s like MacArthur said, you can’t win an Asian war when fought on Asian turf. How do you destroy an enemy who’s created underground cities large enough to accommodate NVA divisions.
Max Hastings, forgot to mention the distruction of Cambodia in its 'genocide', by Khmer Rouge on their own people. None of which would have taken place, if the Americans had not allowed themselves to be sucked into a war by the French, who pulled out after Diem Bien Phu...
@@Skydv2005 In answer to your question, NO. The book is not about 'what aboutism', in fact the only bit of "what absolutism" I remember from reading the book was a comment Hasting makes about what would have happened if the US had not sent aid or troops to Vietnam. It was only a few lines and no I'm not going tell you what he wrote. The book is as far as is possible a informed, knowing, honest unbiased, comprehensive, highly detailed history of Vietnam from 1945 to 1975 from a highly respected British Journalist, historian who spent more time in Vietnam during the 60's than most Americans. .
Johnson and McNamara are these reasons why Vietnam war was lost. You cant micromanage a war. When target information was sent to our so called ally embassies in n. Vietnam spies told nva aircraft type ordinance carried headings and aircraft altitudes used by strike force.
The vietnam war should not have happened. The US didn't attack Hanoi effectively due to fear of widening the war with China involvement, if your not going in the fight to win, what's the point Fighting in the jungle to win a hill for a day is not effective Agreeing to not fortify Saigon was big mistake, Not trying to plant natives in North Vietnam to hopefully gain decent intelligence was a mistake (Maybe it would have worked maybe not) Once it was learned Charlie was every where underground and doing very little about it was a mistake Not declaring war on Laos, and Cambodia was a mistake They catered to our enemy, while Geneva says we can't enter the countries wink wink I'm not even getting started on the Korean War as well Walking away for a cease fire or right out defeat should never be a option Alot of good men and women died when they shouldn't have, or should have been able to rase the stars n stripes in victory for the honor Washington fumbled Vietnam and Korean War I say Westmoreland was Washington's escape goat, put in charge of war he is not allowed to win He walked through hell and held the fight for a decade or more Under those circumstances Westmoreland did pretty damn good He probably could have won any other war that didn't have Washington nervous of china
The "epic tragedy" was 2.7 million Americans listened to their dysfunctional Government and went to Vietnam. The hard reality is there would be no tragedy if they didn't go. Simply put...No soldiers...no war...no epic tragedy. I am a proud Vietnam/Draft resistor. It wasn't rocket science to figure out Vietnam was a loser's war. Vietnam veterans were chumps and pawns. They weren't heroes or someone's victim. They enabled the tragedy to go on for 10 years by being sheep of their Government.
Vietnam were completely different from Korea or Germany. Korea and Germany were divided before the end of world war 2 by allied powers between the communist and non-communist bloc, Korea were , in fact, Japanese territories, so neither the Koreans , Japanese, or Germans have any says in the fate of their countries. Vietnam were a completely different story , it were never divided , it were a cease fire agreement where the French and French colonial puppet government led by Bao Đai could temporary occupied the South , therefore South Vietnam were not a Vietnamese government , but a French government , the US were not there to liberate anyones like Korea where they actually liberated the Koreans from the Japanese , the US involvement in Vietnam were a war of aggression , colonialism , imperialism , based on the fact that they were the sole contributor, supporter to the French war of enslavement against Vietnamese people, that is like Germany invaded Greece and the Balkan to liberate the Greeks and Balkans from ...Italian oppression , and free them from themselves.
My father is a Vietnam vet. My brothers and myself have served in the desert war era with my brother seeing the bulk of the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Our discussions are sad and grim. My wife is Vietnamese. I am patriotic and fly my countries flag every day in my yard. I feel betrayed by the federal government as we all do. Most of us have the mental scars of war. We dream horrible dreams. I weep sometimes. Mostly in the shower so my wife doesn’t see. War is horrible. Men who seek war for their benefits and political gain are demons. God help us all.
These wars were acts of bedrock stupidity.
God bless you.
You are not alone.
Chickenshit Libtards have always told our enemies: “just keep murdering American soldiers” and when we are in power, we’ll cut-and-run.” And they did.
Bless you all
Skip the introduction 11:35
Thanks.
Einen wunderschönen Namen hast Du!
Ach so: Danke für den Zeitlink.
Did it myself, thanks
Tank you tank you very much!
Thank you!
One of the very best single volume histories of that very long war. The first I’ve read in which actions and decisions in both North and South Vietnam are addressed. One of the few that focuses on Le Duan as the spine of North Vietnamese resolve, and the only one in which Bill Colby, then chief of the CIA’s effort in Vietnam and later Director of the Agency, is quoted as saying that during the entirety of the war, we did not have a single reliable source of intelligence (i.e. a human asset) inside North Vietnam. Incredible. Hastings has written a terrific work.
@Fremont- Will have to check it out. I really have not read a detailed blow by blow of the ground. I am currently reading about the Gulf of Tonkin. Like you suggest, the US was inserting commando teams as part of OpPlan 34A, and they all get captured right away. Many are also simply incompetent.
hhh USA knew all about SADDAM HUSSEIN but knew ZILCH.
Hastings book on D day & Normandy is one of the best I've read.
I have that book which I picked up used and read several times.
Reading his book now. It is outstanding ! Highly recommend.
Also. BrIllIant book.
As good as Stanley karnows?
Just picked up a copy; haven't started yet.
Same, I'm still on the French period. Seems like a prelude to the later war.
Max Hastings is a genius. Thank you for this.
Best lecture on the topic since he talks of the disgusting brutality of the war in personal terms and never once rehashing what anyone who's seriously interested in the subject has already heard numerous times.
@6:51 does anyone know where to find the lecture being referenced? (Spanish dominance in the Indian ocean die to gunpowder)
Sir Max was there, in the thick of it. He knows this material in and out.
Max Hastings has compassion for humans on all sides of conflicts. If everyone were like this, maybe we wouldn't have war.
11:40 if you want to avoid the tedious introductions.
Don’t nonentities love the sound of their own voices?
There ought to be open season on them.
FFWD is a wonderful thing
Some in the audience sat stunned into contemplation at the reality spoken by Max. At the commencement of questions at 55:17, look at the body language of the man in the dark blue jumper in the front row. He sits staring ahead like his own belief system has been shattered. He is probably a veteran who felt he fought for a noble cause.
I also fought in Vietnam with Australian forces from 1969 to 1971. I was a military field medic and at our field hospital at our base in Nui Dat, we had more Vietnamese and Vietcong patients than our own. Our soldiers were much more highly trained volunteers than the average US conscript. They were acutely aware that they could perform a humanitarian role behind the military/political facade.
As a result, we accepted nearly 100,000 refugees onto our shores and Australia and Vietnam enjoy a deep and long lasting friendship. Many of our veterans have since paid visits to the area of our operations and the emotions of regret at the loss of life run deep. Yet, it's the Vietnamese generosity and capacity to forgive that welcomes them.
Just finished this on Audiobook. Wish he'd narrated it beyond the preface/intro because his words through his voice ohmystars! "Inferno" was excellent as well.
It’s a great presentation because Max Hastings has the gift of making his chosen subject relevant and fresh, fifty years after the event. His style and method, which he puts great energy into, is an implicit tribute to all Vietnam veterans today: as soldiers and human beings in a very difficult political time for not just America, but the world. The fact that Hastings was a young reporter on the ground in Vietnam, in the late 1960s I believe, only solidifies further his authority over the history of the war, and his empathy with the participants.
I was a combat medic with the 2/7th Cavalry in 1966-67 I was didn't like what I saw while in the field it was confusing and traumatic
Respect
You should tell your story! Might be painful hoping for catharsis, but it could help prevent similar experiences.
I could listen to Sir Max for hours.
Looking forward to reading his book.
Reading his book now. Thoroughly enjoyable as always.
I am British veteran of Afghanistan and he is 100% right about the look of hate in the faces of just the locals in Afghanistan. I could see them thinking about how they would kill me. Were were trying to do hearts and minds but how can you do that with people who want to kill you. It was a wasted effort. But at least I can call myself a veteran
Much Respect Sir!👍
@@82zerox Not that we achieved much but we did try and make an effort. I think in the end the Afghanistan government was not worth propping up or dying for. When the president escaped with 169 million dollars and the Afghan soldiers not being paid or supplied in months having the choice of fighting to the death or surrender and go home I don't blame them. Make your assessment.
@@aaronwilkinson8963 of course.
@Oliver Mayo Tony Blair is a liberal their mindsets are twisted. Who knows what their end goal is or what their idea of victory is. Even the word liberals is double speak because they are the most illiberal people going. They are quite capable of repression usually to us. We live in dangerous times and things can go many ways. What is certain is the Western world especially America is going to be different. What we thought was the US is going to be different or is it just our perception of it
Atleast you made out alive...
At 50:50 he meant to say "Northern Regime" instead of "Southern Regime".
He wouldn't be the first to not know the difference.
I’m buying his book, now.
Great presentation.
Max Hastings is a pretty stolid speaker. When he gets to questions he is absolutely superb.
Max Hasting’s book is the best of many I have read about the war in Vietnam from 1945 to 1975. It gives a very good account of everything that happened and why the French and Americans could not defeat a peasant army that was prepared to suffer so many casualties in the goal of reunifying Vietnam under Communism. The Americans, especially, did not understand the Vietnamese and their culture, often clashing with their South Vietnamese allies - the American and Vietnamese cultures were so different that it was hard to believe they existed on the same planet.
Perhaps the Americans would have fared better if they had acted with more sensitivity towards the Vietnamese and had not committed crimes like at Mai Lai in 1969, though those crimes were committed by only a small minority of soldiers.
In the end though, as Mr. Hastings says, it would have been better to leave the Vietnamese themselves to discover that the theories of Marx, Lenin and Stalin did not work, and appalling as their experiment with Communism was, the result of the US attempt and the French attempt to prevent that experiment by force of arms was appalling as well. Vietnam showed that very often countries’ problems can not be solved by foreigners, those problems can only be solved by the indigenous people of those countries.
For Anyone interested in the war in Vietnam, I would certainly recommend a visit to the battlefield site of Dien Bien Phu, where The French lost to the Vietminh led by General Giap. There is an excellent museum there and you can see many relics and remains from the battle, such as the French Command bunker, Giap’s Headquarters, trenches and bomb craters.
Great author.
What a long yawning intro'. Surprised Max is still awake .................
Key note speaker, Max Hastings; 11:45
Contrary to what one hears from many of these speakers (who say "American LOST the Vietnam War)...The American military WON the Vietnam War. It DESTROYED the Vietcong in 1968. It DESTROYED the North Vietnamese Army in 1972 when the North attempted to invade the South. And it all but DESTROYED the North Vietnamese capital, Hanoi, in December of 1972 using B-52 bombers. The North was FORCED to return to the Paris Peace table and sign a treaty that guaranteed the independence and freedom of South Vietnam. At that time Nixon PROMISED the South Vietnamese the USA would AGAIN use B-52's to stop any future North Vietnamese invasion and that America would continue to support South Vietnam and its militlary. Of course those promises ended when Nixon was forced to vacate the Presidency. Two years after America pulled its troops out of South Vietnam, America was a different place, with a different President and a VERY different Congress. At the height of the 1975 North Vietnamese invasion the leftist American Congress not ONLY cancelled all funding to the South Vietnamese militlary...it cancelled ANY use of B-52's against the invading North's forces. When the South Vietnamese troops heard about this betrayal, they IMMEDIATELY cessed fighting and fled south to Saigon. Again...The American mililtary WON the Vietnam War. The leftist American Congress AIDED AND ABETTED the North Vietnamese government and military in overrunning the South and murdering many of its people.
11:40 Hastings starts
👍
His book is excellent and he clearly has great insight into the conflict. What I don't understand is how, after all this time, he still mispronounces Vietnamese words and names of important people (specifically the [d] sound, which is pronounced [z] in the North and [j/y] in Southern Vietnam).
_Áo dài_ -> [ao yai]
_Lê Duan_ -> [le yuan]
_Ngô Đình Diệm_ -> [ngo din yieem]
I live in Saigon so the examples above are in the Southern accent.
12:00 Start
The book is fantastic.
Great lecture by a great author. Thank you for posting this.
Thanks for sharing, and thanks Sir Max
I once asked Vietnam’s foreign minister Nguyen Co Thach why, after his country was attacked by the Khmer Rouge, it had not taken its case to the UN instead of invading Cambodia late in 1978. ‘We do not have such a high regard for the UN as you do,’ he replied.
‘How so?’
‘Because during the last forty years we have been invaded by four of the five permanent members of the Security Council.’
I was there. 67-68. 11th ACR.
I was in country in 1971---72. I don't know if I want to go this way. I have never dealt with that crap. I just don't know.
Starts at 9:00 minutes.
It's complex. The victorious North Vietnamese were unquestionably repressive, but Vietnam also subsequently enjoyed something like 8% annual growth for 20 years 1990-2010. Perhaps that's the victory of sorts for the USA to which Hastings alludes. Vietnam evolved into an authoritarian-but-capitalist state? ... I did a bicycle tour Hanoi-to-Vientiane in 2011 and was treated so well there. In rural, northwestern Vietnam, the kids would line the roads to give us high-fives as we passed.
I think you missed the point. Ho Chi Minh became a communist because he was a nationalist and the the only people who would support him in the fight against French colonialism were the communists. Just because Vietnam is capitalist does not mean that US has finally won. The fight between the US and Soviet Union was not really about ideologies but more about which country would be dominant. Instead of being communist the Soviet Union could have been fascist or even capitalist and there still would have been a struggle. Today the US sees China as a threat not because it is a "communist" country but simply that it could displace the US as the most powerful country. After all in the 1970s there were books about "the coming war between US and Japan," and as far as I can tell Japan is and was a capitalist and democratic country.
Clausewitz should be read and read again to prevent waging meaningless wars.
We study him at The Point, son. In German.
Also sun tzu talks about avoiding long wasteful conflict's
Almost completed his Vietnam book.
Excellent research and information on both sides, but I would have spent more time discussing the effect of the draft on young people.
The Ken Burns series makes this a key issue.
But it is still the best book I have read on the war...
You don’t mention the Dulles Brothers. CIA. French Connection. Black Ops. Hmmmmmmm
the interesting bit starts at 11:48
so scary,so unheard,so unknown
I thought the most illuminating comment was made around 54:50. I was saying the same thing in 2003.
same thing happened in Afghanistan 2021.
Yep, same principle that no amount of firepower and foreign support in defence of a deeply corrupt and unpopular government will succeed agaisnt an insurgent campaign.
Hastings starts at 11:55
Starts at 12:07
To avoid death by boredom then skip Colonel Sanders to 8:53
Hastings comes on at 11:42
11:45
Know yourself, know your enemy, and know your allies.
That beardy dude at the start spent 9 minutes introducing the guy who was going to introduce the speaker.
Colonel Sanders of the KFC airbourne deserves our respect
Credit where it's due,beards had an interesting tie.
Nice HR McMaster quote
Why are these introductions so long?
Imagine losing a near one in that conflict and now you are told it was for nothing
Brave young men and woman have died for nothing in every war. Only by facing the truth can we not repeat mistakes. If you are only learning now that the war in Vietnam was a colossal lie, you are a fool.
@@markdavis1116to say every war has been for nothing is just insane.
Hastings seems very passionate about this particular conflict, which is unusual for him.
I have come on UA-cam and Slated America and its Colonial past and present , But when you look at the veterans in the room I feel nothing but pity for them.
It must be hard to face the fact that you fought a pointless war and it had all been for nothing and that you had been lied to.
The whole thing should be a lesson on the futility of war but will we learn from it?
You are right. As a Vietnam combat veteran I cannot find any justification, explanation, or excuse for the Vietnam slaughter.
I don't think he argues the aims of the war were necessarily bad, it was more that there wasn't a proper plan for victory. Like he says success justifies everything, nobody questions the wisdom now of the Korean War because South Korea is a modern thriving democracy.
Starts around 12:30. The beginning is just self congratulatory bs.
Hastings comes on at about 11.5 minutes
He left out how Kennedy had worked behind scenes to have Diem removed, and a clumsy series of regimes followed. I am not sure how he will handle Democrats refusing to fund support for for ARVN according to the treaty obligations
Still politically blind aren't ya
@@imnotgayyy8489 how so?I read the letter to Kennedy by Diem explaining why he would not leave Viet Nam as Kennedy had offered.It was in a class where we were studying Pentagon Papers. The Democrats refusal to fund our promised support to Viet Nam included in the Treaty is in the records.Communism almost starved Viet Nam.In 78 they released the ARVN Officers and others from prisons, and supported a somewhat free economy. They might e saying they still love Lenin, but there political self interests are putting VN in a de-facto alliance with Phil, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, HK and South Korea as a balsnce to Maoist China
🔔⭐️🌲🌲🔔 Right from the top, it’s going round we are going back
We only owe respect to the living. To Betty Lopez, we owe only patronization of her lifeless way to suffer through everything.
entire 20th century was rife w/economic disaster
wrapped in nationalism,warfare&conflict resolution
that brought more&more economic chaos. great
talk. G.I.Davis sr4Jan2024
'Like all wars, neither side held a monopoly on virtue or misconduct'. Very interesting, can we say the same about Britain and Germany during the second world war?
Do you know about the bombings of civilian objects by RAF?
@@emceha I and most other people without an axe to grind acknowledge that the calculated slaughter of millions of Jews outweighs collateral damage in the pursuit of strategic objectives (the German industrial base). The slaughter was senseless - all of it - but the Nazis were clearly the bad guys in WWII. Full stop. Only a rabid Anglophobe would argue otherwise.
No, we can't. Funny how American are so quick to pretend that they singlehandedly won World War II but are nowhere to be seen when alleged Allied war crimes are discussed. Fuck off.
@ the british and Americans did technically use slave labour, after the war ended, German POWs were housed in appalling conditions and used as slaves, including clearing mines, in contravention of the Geneva convention
@@edoris9021
I did say "neither the UK or Germany had a monopoly of misconduct during the second world" I could also have added the USSR and the USA even France had used German prisoners of war to clear up the post war mess.
I really don't see how the perfectly understandable behaviour by the allies could be compared to being on the same level of the atrocities caused by the forces of NAZISM.
I would be surprised if anyone including most of todays Germans would seriously think the crimes of their NAZI ancestors can in anyway be compared to the post war actions of the victors.
Was it ever officially a war ?
The Veitnamese people don't call it that.
Not by the US Congress.
Could that introduction be any more boring and unnecessary😠
The quality of the rest of the presentation makes up for it
Bernard fall gives an account of the french experience in the indochina
War 1946.54 and the operations
Of the gcma special forces in
Counterinsurgency which the
American advisers took over in
Second indochina war
Both being failures!
Wonder what his view is on how we could have avoided the war and gained influence at the same time. Ho Chi Minh had requested American backing after WW2 and our OSS had had advised that we help him or risk having to fight him in 10 years time.
We chose to back France and the rest is history
The draftee forces in vietnam were 25%. They suffered 30.4% combat deaths. I think draftees filled out the infantry ranks to a higher degree because they were not trained to higher skilled MOSs and therefore were more "expendable".
damn, they count legs lost in Vietnam war
If China has a 5 year drought will they buy rice from the Annan people or take it by force. America could someday be militarily supporting Vietnam. Proud of the troops that served there.
Insane cope, even 6 decades later the US remains unable to introspect honestly
It used to be my gift and my curse to parody and remember. I'm going to assume it still is.
He uncovered tales from the French Indochina war that were horrific. The communists would display French heads on spikes for example. If only we’d had people like him elected to Congress.
Eleven minutes to get to the main speaker! Hastings could have extended his talk with 10 minutes of relative information. Missed opportunity.
What about whataboutism.
The length of the introduction is disgusting.
Just skip it then?
He's a good military author, but the Vietnam war is too complex to cover in a short lecture. The one thing to take from it is it would have been better if America had not engaged in the war. The Vietnamese wanted independence, not to expand world communism. That was proved when they had border clashes with the Chinese after the war,their former allies. It was politics nothing else.
It’s like MacArthur said, you can’t win an Asian war when fought on Asian turf. How do you destroy an enemy who’s created underground cities large enough to accommodate NVA divisions.
Max Hastings, forgot to mention the distruction of Cambodia in its 'genocide', by Khmer Rouge on their own people. None of which would have taken place, if the Americans had not allowed themselves to be sucked into a war by the French, who pulled out after Diem Bien Phu...
He does go into that in the book.
I'm not Pickle Beecher I'm just really old.
Is this a whole book about 'what aboutism' ?
Try reading it.
@@mrswinkyuk umm well.. Is it?
@@Skydv2005 So, my three words are the total ammount of effort you're willing to invest. You don't deserve an answer.
@@mrswinkyuk thanks for your help.
@@Skydv2005
In answer to your question,
NO.
The book is not about 'what aboutism', in fact the only bit of "what absolutism" I remember from reading the book was a comment Hasting makes about what would have happened if the US had not sent aid or troops to Vietnam.
It was only a few lines and no I'm not going tell you what he wrote.
The book is as far as is possible a informed, knowing, honest unbiased, comprehensive, highly detailed history of Vietnam from 1945 to 1975 from a highly respected British Journalist, historian who spent more time in Vietnam during the 60's than most Americans.
.
Johnson and McNamara are these reasons why Vietnam war was lost. You cant micromanage a war. When target information was sent to our so called ally embassies in n. Vietnam spies told nva aircraft type ordinance carried headings and aircraft altitudes used by strike force.
The japanese managed to conquer
The area in 1940 until 1945
The british actually rearmed them
To keep law and order until
The french returned!
They would impeach a president trying to pull out wouldn't they ? LBJ
Why is there a 3 hour inteoduction? get to the goddam speaker.
37 new Zealanders also died.
Of course, comments are nothing but buttt-smooching ...
Troop deaths vietnam AND over 500 Australians.
The vietnam war should not have happened.
The US didn't attack Hanoi effectively due to fear of widening the war with China involvement, if your not going in the fight to win, what's the point
Fighting in the jungle to win a hill for a day is not effective
Agreeing to not fortify Saigon was big mistake,
Not trying to plant natives in North Vietnam to hopefully gain decent intelligence was a mistake
(Maybe it would have worked maybe not)
Once it was learned Charlie was every where underground and doing very little about it was a mistake
Not declaring war on Laos, and Cambodia was a mistake
They catered to our enemy, while Geneva says we can't enter the countries wink wink
I'm not even getting started on the Korean War as well
Walking away for a cease fire or right out defeat should never be a option
Alot of good men and women died when they shouldn't have, or should have been able to rase the stars n stripes in victory for the honor
Washington fumbled Vietnam and Korean War
I say Westmoreland was Washington's escape goat, put in charge of war he is not allowed to win
He walked through hell and held the fight for a decade or more
Under those circumstances
Westmoreland did pretty damn good
He probably could have won any other war that didn't have Washington nervous of china
svn was nominally no more than 20% bddist
Opinion .... WTF ...
Jesus taught peace.
But Japan should not have invaded Vietnam and planted grenades...allegedly
He's full of shit. What happened to the Diem brothers?
I wish He'd moved to a place that has a bunch of old landmines buried in the hillside country.
Colonel Sanders spoke way too long. Nobody wants to hear him.
The "epic tragedy" was 2.7 million Americans listened to their dysfunctional Government and went to Vietnam. The hard reality is there would be no tragedy if they didn't go. Simply put...No soldiers...no war...no epic tragedy. I am a proud Vietnam/Draft resistor. It wasn't rocket science to figure out Vietnam was a loser's war. Vietnam veterans were chumps and pawns. They weren't heroes or someone's victim. They enabled the tragedy to go on for 10 years by being sheep of their Government.
You sound like a piece of work
That intro was the longest winded BORING POS ever heard
Vietnam were completely different from Korea or Germany. Korea and Germany were divided before the end of world war 2 by allied powers between the communist and non-communist bloc, Korea were , in fact, Japanese territories, so neither the Koreans , Japanese, or Germans have any says in the fate of their countries. Vietnam were a completely different story , it were never divided , it were a cease fire agreement where the French and French colonial puppet government led by Bao Đai could temporary occupied the South , therefore South Vietnam were not a Vietnamese government , but a French government , the US were not there to liberate anyones like Korea where they actually liberated the Koreans from the Japanese , the US involvement in Vietnam were a war of aggression , colonialism , imperialism , based on the fact that they were the sole contributor, supporter to the French war of enslavement against Vietnamese people, that is like Germany invaded Greece and the Balkan to liberate the Greeks and Balkans from ...Italian oppression , and free them from themselves.
Longest , Boring introduction ever !
FULLY AGREE !
Skip to 13 minutes to avoid all the Alzheimers