10 Flaws MG-100 StarFortress SF-17
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- Опубліковано 30 бер 2019
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I am surprised you didn't even mention the fact that the bombs are dropped via a remote. This means it didn't even have onboard controls for its only function.
Yeah, that was another huge issue. Heck, they could have at least made a switch at the bottom next to the turret.
Actually, now that you mention that, I believe these ships were design solely with this scene in mind:
- Easily destroyed for tense, last-second save? Check.
- Extremely vulnerable friendly fire, enforcing the above reason? Check.
- Crew must climb a huge ladder to reach the other half of the ship, wasting precious seconds? Check.
- Bombs are only dropped by an easily-lost remote? Check.
- Pilots apparently have no control over what goes on inside their ship? (Why did Poe ask PAIGE, the gunner farthest away from the payload to make the drop?!) Check.
- Bombardiers can apparently die for no reason right at the most crucial moment, forcing the above reason? Check.
@@n00bplayer72 Dang, I think you nailed it. It's a writer's plot bomb!
"ah shit, my aa batteries ran out, I should have bought more space duracell"
@@n00bplayer72 Did you not see Finch Dallow die?
This ship just shows what kind of brains are now working in Disney on our beloved movies.
This is false. They have no brains. Just a media pulpit from which to spit hatred at anyone who criticizes them.
Disney: Of course we have brains......they're delicious
I fear for the future of Star Wars what once was a great series has now gone to shit by a greedy company out to steal our money
Well, lets just pretend this whole Disneyshit never happend. This is probably for the best.
@@patlp3044 Yes, go watch your favorite prequels 0_0
This thing is MADE of flaws. How the hell did you narrow it down to 10?!
I think the TL;DW would be "everything"...
I mean no one would pilot this thing i would rather be shot out an airlock, atleast i would get to my death quicker than flying this hunk of junk!
Seems designed to bomb undefended ground/planitary targets. They took the Ww2 thing too far
nailed it
I would love to see an ACTUAL B-17 crewman rip into this thing!
To be honest, I would be fine with the Star Fortress if it had insane durability. I can just imagine the cool scenes we could have seen: a small group of slow heavy bombers slowly being blown apart, but somehow still flying with only like half the ship remaining.
I know there was someone else who made a video covering the Star Fortress, I made recommendations to it's design that would have improved it's durability and more then likely changed it's role to a more mobile filed command and support vessel that could bring still bring the payload or do away with it entirely and use it for something a bit more realistic. If you're interested in what I recommended let me know and I can post them.
Now That would be a cool scene
We could have even got an call back to Space Jesus with one of the pilots saying "Not to worry we're still flying half a ship".
That would be too cool for Disney
@@uncletammy5025 Lmao... I agree it would have been beautiful. And, it really represents the spirit of the Republic/Rebellion/Resistance because it shows that they can take as many hits as they need to, but would ultimately still win.
The biggest flaw with the Star Fortress:
A single Tie Fighter can ram into it and become a pinball and then proceed to take out 2 other Star Fortresses
they are also full of explosives
That first order pilot was a true hero, he/she tried to rid the galaxy of both the resistance and those terrible bombers.
No ship can tank a another ship crashing into the ship
I bet if captain Rex and the at-te’s were there, he could take it out in one hit
*Sneezes* sorry I'm allergic to bullshit.
This thing doesnt deserve to carry the namesake of the legendary Boeing bomber family
I mean Boeing isn't exactly trending well with this whole cost cutting thing
Exactly, it is sad that this "starship" is supposed to be compared to the predecessor of the legendary B-52 bomber. The legendary B-52h models are still used by the USAF.
THX-1138 it would work better as a missile boat then a bomber
@@GenerationTech B17 is an aviation legend, it's the craft which had some of the largest role in taking down III Reich.
@@THX--jp8sy You mistook the craft.
The Tie Fighter has finally been toppled as the most idiotically designed flying coffin in the Star Wars universe. The MG-100 Star Fortress SF-17 is a truly worthy successor to the mantle.
And Disney wonders why their Star Wars toys aren't selling. No kid is gonna be like, "Oh yes, I want the ship that dies in two shots and accidentally kills its wingmates! AND the hunk of junk that can't even reach its target, from my favourite scene (sarcasm) where Rose saves Finn!"
at least the tie fighter has speed and a small target profile and actual deadly weapons
At least on a economic stand point, the TIE fighter actually makes some sense.
A cheap and inexpensive fighter meant to be mass produced and absolutely overwhelm enemy forces with sheer numbers.
@@mr.h1083 True enough. The Empire would consider its rank and file pilots disposable, so it makes sense that they might equip them with equally disposable, cheap mass produced fighters. The Resistance leadership has no such excuse with the MG-100 Star Fortress SF-17 - it flies in the face of what their philosophy (with regard to the value of the lives of the fighters under their command) is supposed to be, and these bombers aren't even effective, where swarming a target with Tie Fighters, while wasteful, but often got the job done in a manner acceptable to the ruthless Empire.
Should also say that the TIE fighter is an iconic design that’s very recognizable. This “fortress” looks like a faulty buttplug in space.
Used-Car Salesman: **Slaps roof of Starfortress**
Starfortress: **Explodes**
All other bombers: **Explodes**
n00bplayer I love it.
LOL!!
LOLOLOL
I'm impressed by your supernatural levels of control. Normal men would not be able to stop at 10.
Whoever made the star fortress: Hey! lets make a box full of explosives and market it as a bomber!
Somebody else: Are you sure? Seems kinda... dangerous...
Whoever made the star fortress: Nah, nah, its cool. We'll just sell it to someone *really* desperate.
Resistance: Did somebody say... desperate?
*A few months later*
Battle of D'Qar
bbig oof
Every Military commander with only half a brain would cast one eye on that thing and would have decided imidiatly to fly to the next junkjard to collect something better from there.Especially an Organisation with already limited ressources like the Resistance.
for being called star "fortress" these things are very fragile.
They named it that because the Star Wars universe does not have an equivalent to a Zippo lighter...and the SF-17 "Sarlacc Pit" didn't test well with focus groups.
They had a focus group? And it still got released?
Guess that's one similarity with the B-17 the Flying Fortress, called a fortress but without fighter protection the bombers suffered heavy causalities..but even that preformed better. There was one case where a B-17 was able to fight off multiple fighters by itself. So B-17 proves it was better then that junk of a bomber.
Well, we saw how TIE crashed and also sow how TIEs attack last of them and its armour holds. Very weird shit, Id take this bomb bay and turn it 90degree, add more turests (to sides) and now you have a proper heavy bomber
@@mr.s2005 it was actually pretty tough all things considered. Its really hard to put armor on something that needs to fly
The biggest flaw with the Star Fortress: It exists.
I was just about to mention that...
I agree!
Jedi Spartan 38
Thank you for summing that up so elegantly
👍🤣🤣🤣
It's biggest flaw is that it obviously wasn't designed for space combat.
@@frankg2790 nothing in this film was.
Homage to B-17?
More like insult, the way I see it.
B-17 return rates during ww2 were atleast around 40% so yeah an homage
@@syaondri thats the biggest lie
@@syaondri why are we arguing why TF are we arguing we are arguing about star wars ships wtf holy fuck i need to do something
@@chuckchuck4016based on the movie, SF-17 return rates is 0%.
If the b17 was as dangerous as the resistance bomber it would not be accepted into combat
This is the kind of ship you give as a gift to your enemy.
A white elephant if you will. Hmm maybe whoever built it was an Imperial Spy.
@@Darqshadow the empire was gone it was a first order spy you mean
@andrewaftontheandroidhedge2780
the star fortresses were made near the end of the galactic civil war, basically 5 ABY
So yeah, really really old
It would be a much bigger challenge to find 1 advantage, this is basically a WW2 bomber vs modern SAMs, a Y- Wing would be F-35 compared to this piece of scrap
This is a problem with the sequel trilogy. The original universe was left intentionally in zeerust mode while Disney wants to both modernize it and have clunkers like the shitbomber relevant without realizing the implications.
CHRIST YOU SAID IT PERFECTLY
Astro Bot I mean, the F-35 is a mess in itself, but yeah
@@sr7129 maybe more appropriate to compare the y-wing to an F-22 or 18 then
Agent Washington PFL I’d probably say an F-4 Phantom. It’s old, but performance wise it’s almost competitive.
The main question is, is there anything GOOD about this ship?
IF it reach its target, one bomber has enough bombs to cripple any known ships. (It can carry 50 times more bombs than Y-wing in comparison)
No
@@DOSFS But, in my opinion, the Y-wing is more effective because it is much faster and probably would be able to make several more runs before the star fortress could actually make one run
Pretty much, its role is suited more for attack heavy fortified ground targets with good air escorts.
Even one bomber reach target it can finished the job which properly suit for large army like New Republic that have more escorts more than the resistance(that might just used whatever the starfighters they came across)
@@joshclifford6021 Yeah, for reaching its target Y-wing is better (you just need more of them to finish the job)
The problems is Y-wing are really old starfighters that hard to find 30 years after Empire fall.
I think the star fortress would be well fitted in the First Order, imagine these slowly flying over a defenseless civilian city in order to drop bombs. If the ship is intended to be used by the First Order to be a force of intimidation solely against defenseless planes, then it wouldn’t need that much protection and would be more fitted for mission.
I disagree. Remember, when the FO first emerged, they could by no means be SURE that they would be able to wipe out the whole New Republic with a single blow. The FO is NOT the Empire in questions of ship numbers - they have actually very little, not much more the Imperial Remnants had when after more than a deace of war they were reduced to a few hundred systems and Admiral Pellaeon finally had to made peace with the Rebellion. The FO had modernized most of its ships and so in theorey increased the lifespan - their new Star Destroyers are much better protected against fighter raids, and their Ties are also better protected in combat. So a bomber they could only use with total superiority make not that much sense because they could not be sure that the Republic would be THAT dumb and easy to beat.
Marc Bartuschka good point, however the New Republic has very little knowledge of the unknown regions of space, so as long as an unguarded defenseless planet is out of the prying eyes of the New Republic, the First Order was free to do what ever they liked, possibly use the bombing runs on civilians as training for shuttle and fighter pilots.
@@joshuadunford3171 Well, that is of course right.
However in that case I think there is little need for a bomber with that huge payload (old Tie bombers or modified Lamda would be enough). If I understand it right this joke of a ship was build for heavy armed targets, and I think what the FO has to crush in the Unknown Regions are often not really THAT good protected (besideif it are real good foes, in which case the many flaws of the Star Fortress come again into effect).
Marc Bartuschka good point, but it will be visually appealing to watch though
Yea it's the space equivalent of dropping barrel bombs from helicopters.
Lucas always wanted space combat to be like WW2 but in space, so i've been wanting a B-17 for a long time. Then rian johnson wrecked the star wars B-17.... freakin rian johnson
Ruin Johnson.
interesting idea, poor execution.
Type_S_Tyler K-wings are what you’re looking for.
Wedge was the smartest of all the galactic civil war era rebels, he knew not to appear in the _post-quels*._
Han realized near the end of the first one and deliberately dropped his guard, it was suicide by proxy.
*my new term for episode 7+
casbott a post-quel is a sequel.
Postologie at least makes a bit of sense.
« Nostalogy » is still my preferred name.
Wedge appered in 9.
10. look at it
9. now look at it in action
...1. DID YOU LOOK AT IT?
An old Y-wing in your uncles garage would actually do more than 3 Star fortresses combined
The Starfortress being used in the Last Jedi was like if an entire flight of B-17 Flying Fortresses were used against the modern day defenses of the US.
except the B-17's had a better chance of surviving
But that was literally the point! Last Jedi was largely criticism of the good side. Most ships used by Republic at the time, were local militia forces. So those ships were menat to be outdated and inefficient! But how Luke couldn't be a Marry Sue (he never was)! Błe błe błe!
I'm going to play devil's advocate and I think this is really the point though, the Resistance only had access to these shit tier bombers because nobody else would donate or sell them anything more modern. They were already working behind the backs of the New Republic, which some senators would siphon some newer ships under the table to them while they could. Once Hosnian Prime system was destroyed and so was all that government money and also nice shiny new New Republic ships all that they're left with is remodeled x-wings and these shitty bombers.
@@TheEmpireDabsBack That doesn't work when you remember in TFA, they picked X-Wings to destroy Starkiller Base. That was their go-to bomber. The writers of the Sequels are just retarded.
@@TheEmpireDabsBack Where the hell in the films was all this
if those things were in an atmosferic battle I imagine that real world B-17s would beat them.
WW1 biplanes would beat them.
I imagine a large-to-medium sized bird could beat them.
A horse fly with a bad attitude would have a decent chance of taking them down.
10 flaws of this ship? Pfft this ship is one huge flaw. One tie could take them out. Oh did I say one? Half of a tie took three of them out.
An A-wing took out a Super Star destroyer in return of the jedi by crashing into the bridge
@@darkfishthedestroyer139 after an entire fleet "consecrated all firepower on that super star destroyer" and groups of bombers took out the engine's. All the a wing did is took the finishing blow
The Jams Dude “We’ve lost our bridge deflector shields!”
Impractical as they were, I love them, which I'll admit is due to the fact I've served as a ground crewman each summer for ten years and have flown three times on the B-17 Aluminum Overcast.
Hey! I heard that bomber’s name!
The biggest flaw with the Star Fortress.
That controller with the big red button.
It's the self-destruct button.
and it needed gravitys help to work
I think you could make a 20 flaws video for this ship.
40 would be easy
Make it a 10 hours video, and we still keep finding new flaws with this ship.
Odd observation - Paige falls from the ladder, and lands on a slot-catwalk above the open bomb bay. So where is the artificial gravity being projected from?
chris sonofpear1
The engine?
What’s the problem here??
(Yes, I hate the ship, but your question doesn’t seem problematic.)
@@chrissonofpear1384 maybe it's reverse gravity effect?
You know, instead of creating gravity that pulling you down, they make the gravity pushing you down.
Kinda like anti-gravity, but not really anti-gravity.
The number 1 flaw. This ship exists and the person who designed it wasn't jettisoned into space.
Noctum Angelus I’m sure we can crowdfund a ticket to the space station to Rian Johnson. We just need a way to be sure he won’t be accepted in it once up there.
@@nathanjora7627 we riot agenst the designer
The bastard who designed that death trap should’ve been spaced a LONG time ago.
It lacks B-Wing's gyroscopic system, so no horizontal carpet bombing
Even then the B-Wing was set-up primarily for use of proton torpedoes. Not bombs.
@@Archangelglenn that's what a y wing was for
The MG 100 is the unfortunate result of when you have people who don't care about Star Wars internal consistency design a ship that looks really cool, but is completely and utterly useless. If only this ship was the only part of TLJ that had that problem.
Where on this ship does "look cool" come in?
This thing is a giant horizontal brick with some flimsy looking wings and cannons strapped on. It was a missed opportunity for them to them T-Wings, especially considering the name "Star Fortress" is both incredible stupid and incredibly inaccurate
Agree 1000% that these should have been loaded to the gills with warheads/launch weapons of some sort. A better plan against the dreadnaught would have been: 1) Poe still taking out the point defense cannons (that was a good tactic), 2) Follow up with a specialized group of A-Wings launching not warheads, but homing beacons on specific ship areas of the enemy ship w/ a secondary mission of backing up Poe and taking out any cannons he missed and/or sensors, communications arrays, shield generators, or other targets of opportunity. 3) Other A and X-Wings provide area support when the TIEs eventually launch. 4) The SF-17s then micro-jump into the area - but at as much a safe distance as possible - and then unload massive vollies of warheads using the beacons to get precise targeting solutions. Then, as soon as the warheads were away, under the protection of a friendly fighter screen, the bombers waste no time and jump the hell out of the area!
Also, I get that they (the writers, director, et al) were trying to pay homage to WWII and previous Star Wars inspiration. But in my opinion, they picked the wrong theater of war. The fight against the First Order dreadnaught would have looked better if 'they' would have taken inspiration from the Pacific Theater, rather than the European; specifically the Battles of Coral Sea and Midway, or even Leyte Gulf. Organized waves of fighters, fighter-bombers, and maybe with the SF-17 playing the role of torpedo bombers would have made much more sense not only from a tactical and storytelling POV. But no, they had to do it this way so Poe could be made to look like a "hot shot" and get put in his place; even though he made the right call as a commander in the field.
But that's another rant.
Generation Tech rocks.
best use for these ships 1) scrap for other ships, 2) target drone 3) drone/remote controlled kamikaze ship
i agree with the remote controlled bomb idea
suddenly I'm laughing at an imaginary scene: the bomb come out of the bomb bay and immediately fly right back up at the starfortress!!
I think perhaps better (cough writing) tactics might have made better use of the Star Fortress. If they do have a hyperdrive, couldn't they simply stage out of range of the intended target, jump as close as possible to minimize exposure time, drop payload and jump out? If you want a real world example think the B-58 Hustler. It was designed to scream near supersonic at low altitude, pop up at the last minute, drop a nuke and haul ass out of the danger area.
I think it is not so easy to jump that exact against a moving target during an ongoing battle. It would need a lot of precision, even more that you come out in formation (without you are a easy prey for fighters) and I doubt this rag-tag militia is so skilled to handle that (and they are not so smart like Thrawn who weaponized mico-jumps by using Interdictors to pull his own ships out of hyperspace at exactly the place he want them to have in battle).
I would redesign it to make it less encumbered and crew intensive, as the y wings prove you can achieve major damage with more ships and less payload, see rouge one as example
The worst designed ship in Star Wars.
Mickey Mouse designs a SW Bomber - The Video
Well, the Mandator IV was worse...
@@chrissonofpear1384 No. The Mandator IV had long range heavy artillery that probably could one-shot every single ship the Rebellion had. It has two major flaws: one: insufficient point defence and in general weapons outside its super weapon and secondly the Weak spot exploited in the Movie. Also the fact that the point defense it had HAD NO FUCKING SHIELDING but at least it had a concept that could work. The Star Fortress is just complete trash that just doesn't work and can't do anything. It barely, with a lots of plot armor defeated a Ship stripped of its point defense weapons with a known weak spot, that also didn't move while loosing the entire forces. Even kamikaze bombers are better. It's the worst Ship in SW by a huge margin.
@@op-physics So the problem is Hux used it wrong?
@@schwarzerritter5724 That's not THE Problem, but definitely another contributor. In my opinion the worst design choice shown by the Mandator IV is the lack of shields on the point defense system so that it can be defeated by a single fighter. That's just completely insane as you make your turrets vulnerable to normal starfighters. Anti starfighters canons that can be defeated by starfighters..... Yeah not the best choice.
An earlier design of this ship was floated during the Galactic Civil War, but was vetoed by Palpatine and Tarkin because they were worried about the safety of the crew.
"Vetoed by Palpatine and Tarkin because they were worried about the safety of the crew."
That's something I never thought I would hear.
If a ship makes Palpatine and Tarkin concerned about the safety of a crew, you know that said ship is a flying coffin. Not that saying the TIE fighter isn’t a flying coffin already, but compared to the Star Fortress, I rather be in a TIE than in the Star Fortress.
@@danw4237 well mostly because the both of them realized just how fucking useless something like that would be
People on the planets surface looking in the sky
Star Fortress: *gets shot. Explodes*
People: oh look at the pretty fireworks
Rebel leaders: why the hell are are bombers bieng destroyed so easily?
First order commanders: like shooting fish in a barrel
I actually like this bomber, since it fulfills a role that few others can. The problem (at least one of the many) is that this is clearly a strategic bomber pushed into a tactical role. The way it is used in TLJ is like a real life B-17, B-24, or B-29 trying to be an Il-2 or a TBM Avenger. The Starfortress has no business fighting in a ship to ship combat situation. However, this craft would be pretty great way to deliver a far superior payload than most other bombers at the time to a planet side strategic target. It really should be used to bomb infrastructure, since roads and bridges rarely have massed PD batteries.
Orbital saturation bombing. Not a tactic that goes well with the Rebellion/Resistance.
One of the only sponsor ads I actually enjoyed. It's a combo of the voice of Allen and his ideas in the ad. Good job.
This ship is an explosive flying coffin. Even under near ideal circumstances these bombers suffered 100% casualties and almost failed their mission.
I really don't understand why Leia was mad at Poe. These ships seem to be deliberately designed not to survive their first engagement. The fact they were able to accomplish anything was more or less a miracle.
because Poe was a man, and this leia is not the same Leia that stood toe to toe with Darth Vader lying her ass off with a perfectly straight face.
The best way I can think of using this thing is orbital bombardment after establishing space superiority. Definitely fits the First Order or Empire more than the Resistance.
How funny is it that it seems a B-17 Flying Fortress is more durable than a ship in Star Wars?
The Starfortress’ homage to the B-17 Flying Fortress is akin to that saint painting one woman tried to restore, but comically failed in a spectacular fashion.
Except it’s much less funny, and much more irritating, really.
Hang in there Ben i know things are slow on the channel now but things will uptick when the next Star Wars is good and ready to come out.
Read *"next Star Wars is good"…* and thought WTF? unless Chewie wakes up and realises episode 8 was just a horrible dream…
*"…and ready"*
Oh, now I get it, my bad, carry on.
The creation of these ships perfectly encapsulate the phrase 'Spectacle over story' that I have coined to describe the decisions made by Rian Johnson and crew while making "The Last Jedi". It seems that every major decision from these bombers, to the Holdo Maneuver to Luke's death were all based around how they looked rather than actually fitting into the lore/story of the film and the series as a whole.
A double-fuselage version might have worked better if both fuselages were lengthened, plus the twin booms could accommodate ports for Astromech Droids, droid-controlled guns, and other droid-controlled systems
Frankly, a droid with a handheld blaster and thruster would probably have been an upgrade.
@@Llortnerof, that murderous contraption already exists... it's called Chopper.
The Star Fortress is the "Star Wars: The Last Jedi" of any ship from the Star Wars universe
i get it becuse the last jedi was the worst one but wait what about the holoday speshle
I could see the other mentioned uses being applicable, especially relief operations. If it carries 1,000 proton bombs, just imagine how many MREs it could drop into a famine area.
Dropping MREs on an area would be a war crime.
Only the Cheese and Veggie omlette. That thing was atrocious.
Gotta tell ya, when I first saw these things in TLJ, I thought they were cool, but then the battle happened.
Well at least it was accurate to what would happen.
Before TLJ came out, I was imagining that those bombers were at least CR-90 size ships derived from Nebulon-B
@@Jfk2Mr then you saw the battle and they were smaller then what you thought
>see's the title:
>"10 flaws of SF-17"
*only 10?*
thats insultingly low
y-wings are still in use as some of the teasers for the next movie have shown them. so really NO reason for this ship at all
You know if I had the authority to name it I'd call it the slug bomber.
Zachcast 27 which may mislead people it can actually act as a bomber. Better call it « the slug ».
That might be offensive to hutts.
@@beastwarsFTW i would call it "the gernade " becuse all it does is explode
The best thing about it is it's obvious reference to the B-17 Flying Fortress used in WWII. I like that touch.
I would have loved to have them do an updated b wing that also addresses some of the b wings faults.
At least a b-17 can fly like a fighter if need be.
and B-17s, especially late war ones, were covered in every gun their crews could get their hands on. while the missions were suicide, the planes were well built, durable, and could fight off fighters. I believe most of the B-17 damage occurred while over their targets, when they would be at their most vulnerable, and many survived well enough to get over friendly territory before the crew crashed/abandoned/scrapped the planes. The figure for survival rate is not based off how many made it home, but home many made it home and LANDED (it actually drops if you add the part of able to fly again). these star fortresses could not even survive first contact well away from their targets, let alone fight off even a single tie.
Ok either this video was was filmed months ago or you still haven’t taken your Christmas tree 🤣🤣
Form over function is it's only redeeming feature. I got one of the Lego Sets of it and it is one of my favourite Lego Sets. It looks so cool, got loads of fun features and the figures are great.
i do not agree but your oppinion is valid
I would love to see you guys do a series on all the iterations of Rogue Squadron in Legends. They were always my favorites
They weren’t magnetically attracted to their target. They were magnetically accelerated towards the target. Kind of like a really slow rail gun. They didn’t fall. They were shot. Also there was a force field to keep in air but let bombs through. You know kind of like every hangar on every starship in Star Wars.
John Clarady that’s also what I recalled, for the shooting mechanism.
But they are shot so slowly that you still obviously need to be « above » your target in order to do anything, which means that they are still hyper vulnerable during that maneuver.
Also, it’s a bit stupid to make such a shooting mechanism if you can’t shoot from a distance.
@@nathanjora7627 But that literally was the point! Whole Last Jedi was criticism of the "good side" and fact that impractical designs like that were again used by Republic was to show they corruption and inflexibility. But hater babies obviously are too stupid to get that.
@@TheRezro "But hater babies obviously are too stupid to get that."
Yeah, no, disagreement doesn't amount to stupidity. And in this case I'm not buying that sorry excuse of a defense you gave.
There is no indication of it being true in the movie, and this doesn't resemble any of the previous designs, war philosophy, or way of doing things we saw in the Republic Era, or in the Rebellion Era, so it wouldn't show that such a stupid design is used "again", just "use now for no reason" (in universe).
What's more, it still goes against all of what previous movies were building on, and contrary to the stupid design of the Empire in the OT, it's not like there is any reasonable in universe justifications for doing something that clumsy, that poorly armored, and armed, and that difficult to operate and use.
And the whole of the movie was criticism of the "good side" ?
Are you serious there ? Could you explain to me why you'd say that this movie was trying to intentionally depict the Republic in a bad light, or the good side for that matter, rather than Ryan Johnson messing up ?
And could you explain me why it couldn't be both ? Because, as I see things right now, even if you were right and this was his intention, it would still make no sense in universe, and hence be a gross error.
@@nathanjora7627 "disagreement doesn't amount to stupidity"
And strawman is made from straw. Problem with haters is that they neither have arguments or knowledge about universe, despite acting like "true fans".
But back to the point. Whole TLJ is criticism of the results of the rebellion. It is why we have casino scene. Corruption of rich is still a problem and Resistance buy weapons from those people. Even in the video itself it was stated that design was in-lore outdated and used in improper way. And considering that Republic didn't have central military, odd designs used by militia shouldn't be a surprise. Especially as for reminder they didn't have Y-Wings anymore and were meant to suffer losses according to script. Resistance simply used what they could get at that point.
Also watch again his video about Rebellion Troopers. It was stated there that OT movies were intended by Lucas as war propaganda. So how exactly that goes against anything? And what is point of those units? isn't it obvious? They are carpet bombers. They would be super useful against ground troupes or installations. They were only used improper way, as resistance most likely couldn't get anything better at that point, same way as when they throw Nebulon-B against Imperials.
"Could you explain to me why you'd say that this movie was trying to intentionally depict the Republic in a bad light, or the good side for that matter, rather than Ryan Johnson messing up ?"
Because I watch movie knowing Star Wars lore, instead repeating fake memes? They did same thing also in the Rogue One and to some degree in Solo. It is in order to align whole thing more with EU what was far less one dimensional, then movie from 70's.
"And could you explain me why it couldn't be both ?"
Simple. Haters saying that he mess up, don't explain why. Yes, it could be slightly better movie if they would polish some details, but it is far from bad movie. Just sometimes hard to get without the context (like that Luke was a Sith at that point). Anyway, people also hated Empire Strikes Back, when it initially come out.
"Because, as I see things right now, even if you were right and this was his intention, it would still make no sense in universe, and hence be a gross error"
You mean universe where most planets have own militia before imperial era, with numerous way more ridiculous designs then that? Plus many people in New Republic literally were exact same ex-Empire? (sadly they didn't show Republic ISD's) Technology and laws of physic in universe tend to be oddly unequal, so about what error you talking about? Did they coincidentally removed sound from space, or something?
@@TheRezro "Problem with haters is that they neither have arguments or knowledge about universe, despite acting like "true fans"."
Problem is : lots of them do.
And this changes nothing to wether or not you, or anyone else, should behave your/oneself.
"Whole TLJ is criticism of the results of the rebellion. It is why we have casino scene."
... Seriously, that's why ?
"Rich make profits in times of war" is the best one could do with the results of the rebellion ? Not civilian casualties ? The Resistance's dirty businesses to get cash to finance itself ? The Resistance's entanglement with mafia and crime syndicate ? There are so many things that could've been real and profond criticism of the effects and costs of wars, and that's the best they could come up with ? "Rich gonna be riche" ?
"Even in the video itself it was stated that design was in-lore outdated and used in improper way."
Yeah, the Y wing was an outdated model too, but it was still sound in design.
Also, there is no proper use for that thing, that's the problem.
It's too heavy and pricey to be used in something else than big wars, but it's too cumbersome and stupid to be used in something else than peace keeping and small guerilla fought from the point of view of a government.
"odd designs used by militia shouldn't be a surprise."
Problem is : 1) you weren't talking about odd designs from militia, you were talking about the Republic returning to its old and corrupt/inefficient ways, when this horror is in no way representative of the Old Republic, or the Rebellion, 2) this thing is far too heavy and costly to be something brought up by a militia, or else it should be. a very big one, but in that case they'd know better than make something as stupid as this, 3) the problem isn't that it's odd, there were plenty of odd designs in the OT, the problem is that it's dumb.
"Especially as for reminder they didn't have Y-Wings anymore and were meant to suffer losses according to script."
"Because the scrip says so" is probably the worst defense someone could give of something.
If they had to suffer heavy losses, then why not just have them suffer these heavy losses in the time Poe was getting rid of the enemy ship's defenses ?
It's not like it's something we never saw, like in epIV, when the squads sent to the Death Star all suffered terrible losses because they were the target of enemy fighters and point defenses ?
I'll give you another way they could've suffer horrible losses (all the while criticizing the Resistance) : make the y wing ineffective (which means they get decimated trying to take the dreadnought) until they switch to kamikaze attacks. It's a common tactic of terrorist groups and other fanatics, reminiscent of two events that nearly all american, and most of the target audiene of SW, would know of, namely the japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and the terrorist attack on the twin tower.
Also "they didn't have Y-wings anymore" is only because R.R.J decided it. It's not like there was a valid reason to take them out, and not introduce the replacements that the Resistance was starting to use at the end of the OT, or simply update them like they did for the TIE fighter and the X wing.
"Resistance simply used what they could get at that point."
Which isn't an excuse. In fact, it's more of an excuse to get back the Y wing, since they were even more outdated now than they were during the OT.
"They are carpet bombers. They would be super useful against ground troupes or installations."
No, because they are too slow, cumbersome, poorly armored, and costly to use.
I agree that it's the role that suits them best, but it doesn't mean they would do a good job at it, because this design is just too shitty.
"as resistance most likely couldn't get anything better at that point, same way as when they throw Nebulon-B against Imperials."
Of course they could've ! There were plenty of new bombers by the end of the war with the Empire, and there was the Y wing, that they could've just done an update for in the same way they updated the X wing and the TIE fighter.
"Because I watch movie knowing Star Wars lore, instead repeating fake memes"
Yeah right, cool, me too and plenty of other people, but I and them obviously didn't get the same impression.
So, could you give me the SPECIFICS about why you think R.R.J. was trying to criticize the Resistance, and why you think that's incompatible with him doing so in a poor way ?
"Haters saying that he mess up, don't explain why."
... But they do.
I mean, you may disagree with them, and maybe they are talking shit, but they still do. They criticize inconsistencies between OT characters's then and now (ex : Luke's attitude now, and what he did with his nephew), they criticize poorly thought out plot devices (like the Resistance running out of gaz for their ship), or technology that doesn't work like it should (ex : the cannon that shots in a curvature... Despite the absence of gravity to curve the shot, or the need for a curved shot in the first place), they criticize the retro-active creation of plot holes (ex: the fact that the death star could've been taken by the Rebellion quite easily now that kamikaze attack at lightspeed are confirmed to work), they criticize poorly introduced character development (ex : Tycho's actions towards Finn), or characters' powers (ex : Leia and Rey's powers), and I could keep going on.
Now, you may think that none of these points are valid, obviously I'd disagree, but the important thing I want to stress out here, is that no matter what you think of these criticism, they exist. They aren't just saying "ooooh, this movie is the worst", and run away shouting "lalalal I don't hear you" when asked why, they are loud (if not clear) about why they don't like that movie, so your criticism of them having a lack of criticism is rather uncalled for.
Also... What does that have to do with my question I didn't ask you why you don't explain that to others, I asked you why R.R.J. couldn't have both wanted to depict the Resistance in a bad light, and messed up whilst doing so ?
"Anyway, people also hated Empire Strikes Back, when it initially come out."
... Which is both irrelevant, and not true. When compared to the last jedi. Which stirred up much more criticism than... Well, any SW before, I'd say ?
"You mean universe where most planets have own militia before imperial era, with numerous way more ridiculous designs then that?"
I mean this universe where the Resistance and the Republic both managed to have worthy bombers despite respectively a lack of means, and a lack of martial culture -_-
What's more, this thing wouldn't make sense in universe not because the design is ridiculous, but because it's bad.
And finally... Yes, I do talk about this universe that encompasses bad stories and technologies. What's your point ? Because the way I see it, authors having messed up their stories before SW VIII doesn't give R.R.J. any free pass on messing up. Especially when he's directing a Star Wars movie, not just some random EU story.
"Plus many people in New Republic literally were exact same ex-Empire?"
Which creates even more question as to why they didn't have better bombers since the Empire's bombers were 1) very different from those and 2) infinitely better than those -_- ?
"Technology and laws of physic in universe tend to be oddly unequal, so about what error you talking about? Did they coincidentally removed sound from space, or something?"
Strawman is made from straws you were saying -_-
It's not a question of laws of physics, it's a question of in universe coherence.
In universe, this thing is not sturdy enough to compensate for its speed, not agile enough to compensate for its (relatively) weak armor, can't bomb from high enough to compensate weak armor or low speed, has far too much firepower for uses in regular planetary warfare, and far too much firepower for its own good (since, you know, it gets destroyed by its own payload ?).
It's not even autonomous enough to compensate for all these things, or accurate enough, or anything enough.
This thing doesn't make sense in universe, that's why I don't like it, not because it doesn't make sense through the lens of our physic.
is The worst designed ship in Star Wars the StarFortress?yes!!
No wonder the New Republic got rid of them
@@N120Xeno the fact that someone in the new republic greenlit this thing baffles me
off colored yeah but then he probably looked at the design again and found how stupid it functioned so he told the new republic to get rid of the ships and use y-wings like an adult
When I first saw this I thought "why is a literal ww2 bomber in Star Wars?"
Every time Generation Tech gains a subscriber, and Starfortress Bomber goes up in a giant explosion
Rian Johnson personally oversaw the design.
Probably.
It would have been devastating in the *Clone Wars* in the same role as the B-17, destroying ground targets, industry and massed concentration of troops.
Battle of Geonosis, instead of having the GAR deploy ground forces to march headfirst into the enemy, just have a few of these up high raining proton bombs on the CIS forces and grounded ships.
But then again, a single Aclamator with a cargo hold of bombs could do even more damage and get lower as it could tank the hits.
Where the Resistance could possibly use these is in destroying known orbital facilities, but they would have to precision jump in, release all their bombs to drift in the direction of the target and jump out again before getting hammered. And even then any defenses could just fire on the cloud of approaching bombs to chain detonate them.
But they are great at obliterating targets without any AA defense, so more a terror weapon against civilians (or using gravity against targets that don't have the range, ground troops).
Hey couldn't a bunch of them have just hyperspaced in close to Starkiller base once the shields down and rain down bombs from the stratosphere?
Wouldn't need to do a trench run then……
This ship is surprisingly comparable with Correlian Bunker Buster(it is the only resistance ship Starfortress can dock to,and it can quickly reload its bombs),which is also a bomber,but the kind that drops nukes from orbit. They could have used Bunker Buster to crack the shields with its nukes and suppress AA with its heavy turbolasers,while Starfortresses bomb actual ground targets. So you might have been just right about its purpose and the way it was used. Then the problem with the battle of D'qar is that was the only way Resistance could deliver enough firepower to actually deal with the Dreadnaught due to lack of anything more advanced
I guess everyday is Christmas for Generation Tech.
They should have made this either
1:a literal floating fortress with crazy point defnecs systems, some turbo lasers and shield /armour
2:make it a sneaky ship which appears from nowhere to attack
3: a floating anti ship sniper
"I guess in a certain way it looks appealing to the eye…in a certain way."
Oh come now Allen you missed a golden opportunity to say "from a certain point of view"
If the bombs are magnetic, why dont they get stuck in the bomber?
because the bomber is made out of cardboard...
@@songhan1586 no wonder it turns into a fire ball
Alan. I love your videos man. Love being a part of Generation Tech. But....It's March...TAKE DOWN THE CHRISTMAS TREE ALREADY!
Good breakdown. It seems these ships were built more for high altitude bomb drops than gunfight scenarios. TIE fighters had always been a nuisance, but now with fore and aft attack capability and two aircrew, TIE fighters were even more dangerous. Poe was able to fly a TIE and evade FO long enough to get planetside in TFA.
If these new bombers were built to be as maneuverable as a B-Wing, but three times the size and exponentially more firepower, the Resistance/Rebellion would have made short work of any capital ship. Benicio del Toros character said it best, most weapons designers sell to both sides...Incom made the X-wings for the Empire before they sold them to the Rebels. Empire felt shields and hyperdrive were wasted on pilots and would encourage them to run from a fight. I could go on and on but nuff said. Great video man!!!!!
I really would have liked them to use updated Y wing's and B wing's instead of what we got in the last Jedi
well the resistence was sposed to be shitty so why not give then shitty versions of y wings and b wings
So, in other words, it's a suicide run. They mixed the flying fortress with kamikaze attacks.
I think the long range artillery was a good shout and most points I agree with it
As a huge fan of World War II strategic bombers (never mind historical military aviation in general!), seeing this in theaters had me on the edge of my seat. Great video!
Quick edit: intended design screams "strategic bomber", but implementation and execution barely rises above a disdainful "Stuka..." The StarFortress is slow, questionably defended and protected, and either requires heavy fighter coverage or air/space superiority to not be a liability, let alone effective in it's role.
Yeah, they could’ve seriously improved on it. Clearly, the makers of the B-Wing were trying to up the Y-Wing, but its a . . .
Would the K-wing be better or ? ? ?
From what we saw, the K-Wing had better guns and better top speed than this hunk of space junk, so yeah, probably.
Than again, Selective Pontification, its more likely that the Resistance wouldn’t have been able and/or not allowed to acquire the K-Wing & was thus forced to have that pathetic excuse of a ship.
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I would also like to see a 10 features or 10 flaws on the victory star destroyer.
If you took the vertical bomb racks and used some sort of helical design like the mag for a pp19 bizon SMG then you could still have massive capacity, much better looks, a smaller profile overall and probably save enough mass to pickup some speed.
Its similar to a zeppelin
With the bombing part
Topaz 13 Funny thing is that in WW1, zeppelin, or air ships, were used as such but quickly put to at a stop do to how prone they were to blow up as well to be very expensive to build.
@@zekeiyf2003 ja I know
@@lordseelenfresserdemonking1168 The thing is that Zeppelins were actually known for being virtually indestructible at the beginning of WW1 because you could shoot at it all day and it wouldn't deflate by any meaningful amount. It was only when they figured out that it was filled with flammable hydrogen gas that Zeppelins started going down to incendiary ammo.
Basically, comparing this to a Zeppelin is an insult to the Zeppelin, because at least the Zeppelin demanded a specific counter-strategy.
It's like using zeppelins during the Korean War.
@@David_Alvarez77 Basically, although by that point zeppelins/blimps all use helium so you cant burn them anymore
I'm surprised you could only find 10 flaws
Its such a cool looking ship in my opinion. Love the inspiration from ww2 bombers. It would be really cool for a bounty hunter to highly modify it. Faster more maneuverable. Instead of bombs make that area holding cells. Tractor beam generator for capturing ships.
I almost feel like the behind-the-scenes ship design team showed the writers various ships they had already been working on, & the writers thought "ya, we've got this scene already written, let's just plop this in as the bomber. good enough".
In WWII they used high altitude bombing for land based targets and as well as skip bombing, divebombing and torpedoes for naval targets. By late war the B17 also had the rocket propelled Disney Swish bunker buster and the B-29 could deliver the nuclear bomb to land targets. In Star Wars TLJ the bombers deploy magnetic mines from low altitude and then all die from their own bombs and shrapnel (I think only one was destroyed by an enemy fighter).
Is there any good things about it except for it's payload?
As far as I can tell, not really. Especially since the bomb load appears to be droppable in only two ways: all-at-once, or by rack, and it looks like there are only two or four bomb racks. Assuming a best-case scenario, that means an SF-17 could only hit at most four different targets. Now, to be sure, anything hit with 250-1000 proton bombs will have a very bad day, but that means the SF-17 is limited in ways TIE bombers, Y-wings, B-wings, and K-wings weren't.
@@tba113 add to that that many rebel bombers never flew with full loads due to lack of armaments on hand, these bombers massive bays make even less sense for them
I'm just wondering why his Christmas tree is still up.
The Wells ad quote was nice
The description of this ship in one word: kaboom
This would be much better at attacking targets that cant move, like bases, flying in atmosphere
It was actually designed for this.
Spirz It would explain the odd shape, it would have a small profile when viewed from below.
@@austinhinton3944 Exactly
There's a reason I don't acknowledge any movie, except Rogue One, from the new trilogy era
If it had some cool shield link ability like forming a wall that tie fighters cant even fly through could have made this amazing
I agree with you about the flaws of not having enough shielding, armor and weapons turrets and it definitely could've benefited having an Astromech Droid onboard
Something else that it definitely needed was a faster hyperdrive system and possibly even some automated blaster turrets that would've been controlled by the Astromech Droid onboard
"Form over function is usually a bad idea" true words Apple still hasn't learned...
The Y-Wing was a incredibly superior bomber
Probably a very underrated ship and for good reason. Seemed to be just put there for the script to make a certain someone's sister to die...
However this design probably would have been more effective as planetary bombardment platform and not as an anti ship heavy bomber platform, which is probably what the B29 Superfortress would've been used for if it was a spaceship.
Lmfao at the Orson Welles reference!😂
Honestly, I would rather strap some rockets onto a B-17, keep the BMGs, and use that over one of these deathtraps
dont forget a space suit so you can breath in space
Thinking back. You said this thing is bright as day light on scanners. You telling me Hux is a dumb blinded general that two years to notice the bombers.
End of the day terrible ship for the resistance(new republic being jerks)
They should have used the British Mosquito as inspiration. Ridiculously fast and manoeuvrable and could fly despite being full of bullet holes.
Or, if they wanted to use the slow speed as a plot point, how about the Fairey Swordfish torpedo bomber.
Original trilogy B-wings already filled the role of "torpedo-bomber homage".
Its sad that Disney missed such a good opportunity with these ships, because I really like them and wish they were as durable as they look.