Otto is the one who suggested that Viserys make Rheanyra his heir after the baby died because he didn't want Daemon to be King. Then he whored out his own daughter to Viserys resulting in a marriage & male heirs who could contest Rhaenyra's claim. He is absolutely culpable for the current conflict.
Okay -- Jason can see the history of old Valyria IN THE TAPESTRY while the rest of us are still marveling at the needlework -- clearly the right people are in charge of this podcast ♥
@@tajaemartin2251 Or just having enough brain power to put two and two together which Blood quoting ""A son for a son". Does she look like a son to you?"
Love Olivia's take on the Alicent/Cole relationship - grief doing strange things to them, sex being the opposite of death. And you know what? Good for her, she deserves some good sex after almost 20 years with Viserys!
I feel glad for her, but she's such a hypocrite. Claiming Rhaenyra is a slut while sleeping with her ex-lover and commander of the kingsguard days after her husband has been laid to rest. As Aemond said accurately, she seems to speak with two tongues.
yeah, interesting, how much opionions can differ as soon as the perspective changes. While everyone blamed and judged Rhaenyra having Sex with Criston Cole, now it is okay, on the very same terms. Turns out, people are as much double-faced as the Greens. But this is not, what holds the world together, when it depends on it. Maybe the Targaryens and all their values should go on a long vacation and leave the world of Greens on their own. Just come with the dragons, when they are about to ruin everything 🤡
Way I took the Daemon scene with Blood and Cheese is that he said “son for a son”, if they couldn’t find aemond. No one said “son for a son” until Blood said it and no reason for him to make that up. Also it’s the name of the episode. So yes and no, Daemon didn’t say kill the kid, but bring him the head of “a son”. Which is essentially the same thing since in the show Aegon only has one son when the books he has 2.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a complaint, it’s just that this scene was so aggressively over hyped. They claimed that GRRM himself said it was worse than the red wedding, when it wasn’t even close to it. The book had more brutality in its dry historical description of events than the scene did in some ways. It was brutal, but it wasn’t book-brutal.
Yes, I thought it was better in the source material. It is meant to be shocking. It is meant to be retaliation. A problem or something that looks suspicious about HOT D is that nothing seems to be anyone's fault. Everything apparently occurs by mistake. It takes away from the independence and decision-making of the characters. I am honestly disturbed you misunderstand people and see what you want to. Nobody wanted it to be more brutal, I wanted it to have more weight. It feels they've whitewashed the show or made characters more palatable. Except Daemon. For some reason, they keep editing him out to be the worst person ever, when he's supposed to be the greatest hero for many and the darkest villain for others.
because how it played out in the books is way worse but also extremely important for the character development of heleana and jahaera, the kids were also not asleep andnshe had to choose between her two sons. and since maelor is actually a reason for one of the coming future battles its not really explained why they cut him out, i mean they only needed a little baby or toddler , who doesnt even need to say anything
it was also that they hyped the scene up, and it had the potential to be amazing since the source aka the books gave them everything they needed, and whatbthey showed is a huge disappointment
and that they claimed that the author himself said that this scene in the show would be worse than the red wedding can only be. amlie, because the red wedding in the show was way worse than thid disappointment of a scene
I liked it better because of the “Sophie’s choice” of it. However the way they have portrayed Helena so far, this could work better. It was kinda heavy handed and almost exaggerated in the book imo (since it is a retelling). Blood telling a 2 year old that his mother chose him to die always felt exaggerated. It’s a 2 year old. He won’t understand him and won’t remember. Dont get me wrong, it was brutal as hell in the books and genuinely shocking. I just don’t mind the way it happened in the show. I’m curious how they handle Helena now. They can still go the way the books went because of the way she chose which child to die (did she try to trick or not) or since there’s no 2nd son and how they’ve portrayed Helena as autistic, they can greatly expand on her story. Maelor was a nothing character in the books tbh, I don’t see them making him like someone said in this thread. They can just use the daughter.
@@fy4b230 People talk to 2 year olds all the time, perfectly knowing they don't understand and don't remember. Maelor remembering something was not the point. The other things you said sound reasonable enough, except that the daughter would not be enough for Aegon. In the books, he had another heir for some time, and when Maelor was killed, he even wanted to remarry just to father a son. The "Sophie's choice" is exactly what happens in the books, by the way. They changed it, and I didn't notice a single good thing that came from it. Like not a single one.
@@_antillas8674 I think you misinterpreted what I said a little. I liked the book better because of the better portrayal of the Sophie’s choice. That was what I meant with my first sentence of my post. I can see how it read the other way though. Cheers.
@@shighaffaar1254 Hate my fellow book readers like you. There’s no reason to spoil, they’ll find out eventually. If you’re going to spoil something then do something like “Spoiler warning:” Then they would have to choose “show more” if they want a spoiler…
Exactly. This spoiler warming wasn’t preventing it from being spoiled anyway! And I didn’t know she’ll commit S. I just knew she was gonna become very depressed and silent
The new Queen said she didn’t want her son to be King and Aegon still took him to Council. She definitely wasn’t going to punish her Daughter. She is now safe. Son Never was!
I think Daemon processes grief as a soldier/ warrior. I mean his job is taking out others who are his enemy. He sees death all the time. Also, the son that died wasn't his by blood, so he didn't maybe care as much. He would want his child to be heir before another man's/Strong by blood. Princess Rhaenys as a mother who has lost her children and grandchildren has more empathy for her. As even Alicent does by lighting the candle for Lucerys.
@@melissak8419 Speak for Alicent; if something is truly wanted, it will happen. It is a simple as that. Alicent did it only for herself, to comfort herself. Even then she could have written a letter, if she really wanted to prevent war, clearing up. But it would have needed an acceptance in adavance, that something the person itself did wrong. Otherweise it is just comforting oneself.
I wasn't that struck by the final event of the episode. With exception to the beheading of Ned Stark it's not like GoT to do violence and gore offscreen. I saw a somewhat emotionless Helaena immediately point to her son when asked and then grab her daughter and flee. So to me, the heart-wrenchingness people are referring to is only from projecting one's one emotion onto what it would be like to have one's child murdered in front of them-- not from the actual execution of the scene.
Blood and Cheese came and they were brutal, they further escalated the bad blood between the Greens and the Blacks. It's now in the hands of the dragons, sadly 😥
42:25 Olivia is so correct here, how many parents deny that their child is "unusual" in any way. So many people are coming out with stories that their parents knew they're autistic or have ADHD or depressive tendencies or are queer or intersex and they just refuse it and never tell their kids and just let them struggle most of their lives because they just have that much of a blind spot
Brilliant start to the second season! I will ask… not all of us have read the books so please be more careful of spoilers. You kind of hinted at a future event in this podcast, so maybe use other modal verbs instead of “will”, like “might” or “may”.
I did not see the Episode, just listening to the Podcast. From this, I hear, that Alicent and Ser Criston have an affair. So two questions: WHY the f...k everyone went nuts about Rhaenyra wanting and had Sex with Ser Criston. She took all the blame of literally everyone that had an opionion on it, whatever that was. With all understanding for Alicent and the reasons mentioned here, on why she agreed to it, she is none of that, she wanted to see herself. In the end, Rhaenyra was absolutely about right, when she said to her, that "now they see you, as you are". And Ser Criston Cole, who blamed Rhyaenyra, she wants to make him a whore, became one. Actually, I would go a step forward and say, that Rhaenyra was in Love with him; he wasn't fun or pleasure for her. And if Ser Criston was honest, she wasn't too. But, there we go. One for the last: I had that slight feeling that there was something already between Alicent and SCC on the Episode with the funeral scene of Laena. That one short, brisk moment, when Lord Commander Westerling asked about who should stand watch, and Viserys looked at Alicent and SCC, and said no, it doesn't have to be the latter. Rhyaenyra was so about right, when she chose her heritance over a Ser Criston Cole. Lord Commander Westerling had all my sympathy for leaving the small council, actually doing, what Ser Criston Cole could have done. I bet, he knew it that moment, when Westerling left the room.
@@TRIPTHEMAN65 Yea! The usual 'you will not do X because I said so!' barely works on normal children, it definitely won't work for the royal children 😅
I know it’s funny Crispin and Alicent being together, but for a podcast that discusses stuff, y’all are not discussing their hypocrisy? They shamed and made Rhaenya’s life miserable for brunching around outside of wedlock, only to turn around and do the same themselves 😂 that would be funny to talk about as well
@@TheEnecca , yes, but Criston shouldn't be with ANY woman. He made a vow of chastity when he was anointed as a kingsguard, so he is a hypocrite; therefore, both are hypocrites. They spent years talking crap about Rhaenyra, and now IN THE SAME ROOM he broke his vows with the princess he KEEPS doing the same crap with Alicent. And Alicent should know better! I'm not complaining that she has a sex life, the problem is with who
@piperldy I think for Alicent it's also a matter of availability and proximity. Crispin is her sworn shield so they have an excuse for being alone. It's like the medieval equivalent of having an affair with a coworker at a job that requires you to travel together. You're already in the same hotel so might as well
Not really, they were teenagers when the whole thing happened. Alicent did her duty and no she is not duty-bound--Rhaenyra chose pleasure before duty. Cole was so eaten by the fact that he broke his oath for Rhaenyra and her dumping him that he almost killed himself. They are far too complex to be considered just hypocrites.
completely ruined it. It's not even about the gruesomeness that makes blood and cheese impactful in the book but the dynamics and that little bit of dialogue that makes it such a psychological horror leading to the character development for Alicent and Helena
I am loving this show and think the scene was horrifying enough without the extra dialouge etc from the books. I truly do not think anything more was necessary because it was disturbing enough and accomplished officially starting the war.
I'm the originator of the following theory and I think it should be done! I believe they may have added in the adsence of Maelor as a storyline. Hear me out Maelor being unborn at this time, then Aegon flying to Rooks Rest and what we believe happens to him actually happens; significantly weakens his claim. In turn this will create an issue in the line of succession. As people may speculate that Aegon will be able to produce no more heirs leading to the same problem occurring all over again. People speculate that Aemond is the father of Jhaerys, what if they've done this to show that Maelor is the son of Aemond. He will step in 'do his duty' as he claimed he would on Driftmark and father Maelor on Helena to strengthen the claim to the throne. I think they might do this though, as people have been speculating and it will be a magnificent addition and add the element of show don't tell. I hope this makes some semblance of sense. To add to this, It will also go to show how the Greens only see women as brooding mares and not to be placed in the line of succession. I've struck gold and if the writers have done this to intentionally set this up then they did it well. If not they should do this because I'm clearly a better writer. HA! Agree? Credit This Bitch!
But… Jaehaera is already born, she is the kid that Helaeana took to Alicent at the end of the episode. Aegon III is born already too, to Rhaenyra and Daemon. So no need for Aemond to father anyone, both exist already.
Good episode but the blood and cheese change was not a good one. Having Helena choose which on of her kids to be killed, and having the one chosen live and know that his mother picked him to die is a lot more impactful for everyone as opposed to what we saw tonight.
She still chooses and gives up her son, that’s not gonna not mess her up. And she saw it. I understand why they changed it, it might have been to difficult to film/show
@@WBSlashH yes but it is so much more damaging in the books where she and her kid have to deal with the fact that she chose to have him killed. I don’t think it would have been difficult to show. Just have them ask which one she wants to die, she chooses the younger and then the younger lives. They don’t have to show the beheading on screen, they can leave that the same as shot in the show, however I think the choice is what adds that next level of fucked up to the dance.
@@Toaster7 I agree really, I’m just not as disappointed as some are about it. However we don’t know the full outcome until the end of the season. We will have to see how it effects the dance and Helena
@@Toaster7 Jaehaerys needed the younger brother Maelor for the choice to work. HBO failed to write Maelor in, so the daughter in comparison is to low of a tier for there to be a choice it's always going to be Jaehaerys in this scenario. In "Fire and Blood" it does seem that Haelena has a real choice to make in her mind she rationalized that her youngest son Maelor was the most expendable.
The writing was just bad. I thought GRRM has something to say regarding the show but it doesn't seem like that.. Just everything about how they handled blood and cheese was so underwhelming and not even close to how impactful it was in the books. Plus there were some dumb moments: No guards (super unrealistic), the murderer being coldblooded when it came to killing the boy but he didn't dare looking into his pants if he was a boy or a girl?. Furthermore they didn't tie the queen up and rather let her escape? And this whole blood and cheese scene was meant to be shocking and showing how brutal the war really is, but seriously: This TV-Show could simply be shown during daytime in the TV. It lacks in darkness and disturbing moments unlike the book or GoT. It seems like they try to attract a big mass of viewers but they forgot that GoT attracted so many people despite being so brutal and dark. I hope it gets better but my expectations are extremely low. I think you don't come aroud comparing GoT and HotD with each other, but HotD is not nowhere close to how good GoT was.
9:05 I only remember reading about Alysanne's mount not flying over the Wall. I don't remember Vermithor (king Jaehaerys' dragon) being mentioned even trying to fly over. The show writers made a mistake in that episode, I think. Might be wrong, it's been a long time since I've read it.
"Alysanne wrote to Jaehaerys that she was troubled by the fact that Silverwing refused to fly over the Wall, despite never refusing her commands previously."
They played Daemon telling B&C to specifically kill Aemond and asked whether he wanted to the young prince killed. No! B&C are just too stupid and came to the conclusion that any prince will do.
I was also very surprised by aegon this episode. I was not so much surprised as his eagerness to be king, but by how complex he was. I think season 1 it was “he’s lazy and gross and that’s it” And in the first episode it was a mix of he’s naive and eager to learn and do better, but also he’s still clearly very aloof about a lot. He wants to bring Jahaereys to the small council because Viserys didn’t do that for him. Aegon was probably made to always go to study and school, and he might have resented that. So he’s doing what he wished his father would have done with him. But also, he doesn’t know where and when he studies. I think Tom Glynn Carney mentioned that aegon was probably present for the fun moments. If the kids wanted to play, aegon probably participated, but he just isn’t interested in the actual raising of the kids. Just overall I was impressed with the added layers to aegon as a character
Alicent getting some is so hypocritical because she's doing the very thing she hated Rhaenyra for. I felt bad for Helaena because she's innocent but what did the Greens (Aemond and Aegon) think would happen, that they could kill a member of team black and that none of them would be harmed back?!
A missed opportunity with Blood/Cheese, so many elements of what made that moment a MOMENT weren't present: • Helaena's impossible CHOICE. If the writer's thought infanticide was the "shock value" of the Blood/Cheese moment, they're wrong & showing they don't understand the source material. It was more about Helaena's choice, an impossible one for a MOTHER to make, but she's forced to do it, even after pleading for them to take 𝘩𝘦𝘳 life instead (something Show Helaena doesn't even offer to do??). Even without Maelor, as the "spare", this moment as the show did it with just the twins could've hit harder if Helaena was forced to choose which one to sacrifice VS just point out which one is the boy 🙃 • I know it's been forever ago & most of us are blocking out GOT, but GOT had a scene with a mother/baby getting unalived. When Joffrey ordered all of Robert's bastards to be killed & one was a baby. They cut the scene, just showed us the mother's horrified reaction... NO ONE in the fandom wants to actually see a child/baby unalived or beheaded. What's not seen is sometimes more powerful, same here. & I'm just pointing out GOT show has done this before. I get that we're going with Helaena is "different" or on the spectrum & she hasn't had a "normal" response to ANYTHING, if you watch her in S1...but still weird to not have her be more panicked or something. • Alicent not being present. This one is more minor overall. But it would've been the better call to have her gagged/bound & watching this unfold, helpless to stop it, as in the book. Alicent already feels uneasy, guilty & helpless over what Aemond did & this is a clear act of vengeance for it. It just reinforces for her all the "doom" she's complicit in bc she crowned Aegon. Having her get dicked down by Criston instead feels disassociated from everything else going on. Overall the episode was a 6.5/10, but it could've been a solid 8-9/10, if we had raised the stakes & stuck closer to the book/lore. ALL of ASOIAF books pull zero punches with its characters & events, it's a shame/disappointing the show does.
Agree completely. And furthermore, with the Alicent and Criston scene, they've butchered both of their characters, especially Criston. They already did him dirty in S1, now he's nothing. At least before this he wasn't a hypocrite, now he's that as well, same as Alicent. And putting that scene right after Blood and Cheese where we're supposed to be horrified at the blacks... The rest of the episode was good, and that's incredible. They did best where they got almost no source material, but where they did have they blew it by making things up. I think I'll convince myself that this final part doesn't exist, Jaheaerys chocked on his breakfast and that's it, rather than remembering this atrocious ending.
Two things I’m NOT looking forward to is Helaena jumping and the Gullet because it means we lose my 2 favorite characters. Thank you for being awesome EVERYONE on HOTD. (Even Rhys ifans who plays a very despicable character)
How do you not even have Helaena offer her life for her children? Blood and Cheese was laid out plainly in the book, and you threw it out for no reason.
thats silly. neurotypical people can still be self sacrificial. to me, she had already offered the necklace and they threatened all 3 of them...she assumed if she offered herself then they'd all be slaughtered. hence why she wanted the guy to know she was pointing out the boy and not to kill both and her to be sure.
That's what they wanted to portray to demonize the greens. In the book she's gagged and thrown into a corner to watch the entirety of the horror play out. Guess hack Condal skimmed over that part.
Seriously, the writers ruined blood and cheese. It was written so badly and underwhelming and had almost zero emotional impact. All that happened before the event was good, but why the hell did you have to destroy such an impactful moment of the books? It felt almost boring to watch. No guards in the castle, no one getting caught, not showing the brutal death (not that I like to see something like this, but come on, brutal and disturbing scenes always fit into this world. In the books it was an red wedding-moment, but here it was just lame.), the queen almost seems emotionless. WTF? You didn't do the show a favor when hiring these writers. And what comes to my mind: The man murdered the king's son coldblooded but didn't dare to verify who's the boy or the girl? And instead of bonding the queen they just let her escape? It was written so poorly and extremely lowered my expectations for the following episodes. HotD is not not half as good written as Game of Thrones was.
criston cole doing it with alicent makes NO sense for his character. he did NOT want love conducted in hiding, uncleanly and without honour. alicent offered him what rhaenyra had supposedly taken away with her “spidery” guiles: his unsoiled white cloak, his honour. for crying out loud!
@@Hikikomortis alicent i might believe, but cole ending up doing sthg he changed sides for, sthg he denied doing with a girl he loved to begin with, is “ironic” to say the least. he was about to kill himself last season. if he’s with alicent now, that means that some change inside him happened in the first season, sometime probably during the time elapsed off screen, after rhaenyra’s marriage and before her giving birth to joffrey, and that he was already sleeping with her then. because nothing so big has happened in the maximum of two weeks between this season and the last that could have determined them to go to bed together all of sudden, after 20 years of chaste service.
They ruined and twisted his character completely. And almost from the very beginning. Whose idea was it to have him butcher Laenor's lover in the middle of a wedding? Not even a queen could have saved him from something like that.
@@_antillas8674 that, him exploding at the idea at being thrown together with the other dirtied up, honourless people made sense. this does not make sense. or turns him into an even worse bastard than he was. he is willing to be alicent’s “whore,” but not rhaenyra’s. and still holds a grudge for rhaenyra, which means he still resents what she’s done to him/with him. maybe they’ll elaborate in coming episodes.
If Dany was in Rhaenys position there was no argument that she would jump on Drogon and flee with Daemon to KL.These people all talking about the politics, the realm, the people and in the end we know how it is end's.Trully indecisiveness of all this peoples in right time and right target caused they downfall.Only empty talks and disasters after disasters while they talk.
@@VX3960 No she would,no doubt.Unlike Rhaenyra she was very decisive and fearless, never doubted in her self.But she had Drogon and Rhaenyra have unicorn so ...
Condal should be nowhere near this show. Pure fanfiction nonsense - Alicent and Cole have no romantic relationship in the book, let's turn Blood and Cheese from the harrowing psychological horror it was to slapstick comedy, JUST to shift the blame onto the Greens for being hypocritical and negligent. ANYTHING they could do to steer your attention away from Daemon and Rhaenyra plotting child murder (including a random dog being kicked, they knew normies would be enraged) they did. Aemond was never the target in the book, it was always one of the children. Haelaena's choice, the rape threats, your mama wants you dead, Alicent tied up in the corner, her handmaids slain... all cut. Condal is an absolute D&D tier hack.
You are saying so much about books, the beauty of this show is, they can do stuff like this and still keep it true to book. As the book is from the perspective of a in-world character, so even if target was aemond, it will never be recorded in book just like Aemond mistakenly killing Luke was not mentioned. Similarly, Alicent and Cole is a secret so they won't be mentioned in book. Enjoy the show mate, if you want to stick to the book 100%, it will be very bland of a show.
@@0___.a._.d._.i._.t._.y._.a___0 Condal's rendition of House of Rhaenyra will never be considered canon by book readers. He's straight up inventing things that were not even remotely hinted at in the source material. This is hack fanfiction, nothing more
Oh, and one more: eveyone went nuts, Rhaenyra having Sex with Ser Criston Cole. I wonder, how this relationship between Alicent and Crispy Creme, as it is one, will be looked upon. It's the same situation as with Rhaenyra: he is Alicent's sworn protector; he shouldn't have Sex with her. So, I am just curious to know, what is the reason that gives approval in this case? Understanding for Alicent's biography? A lot have mocked about Rhaenyra being the daughter of the king and in a powerful position, to have misused this; but what about now? It only proves, that people want to see, what they want to see. That people WANT to see the glam, the shiny, the nice, the countable; everything that goes beyond it, the dark, the own fears, the own disgusts, the own inner horror-shows, that is not wanted. So people still prefer nice and shiny and glamour and nice smells over things they are afraid of, they are trying to hide and run away. It is so much easier, isn't it? And by this, they are able to literally isolate and let those other ones die. All this because people still rather follow and take the easy way instead of to use what they have to move forward. But cry out when things start to go wrong. I said it once and it seems, I was not so wrong about it: Rhaenyra went on this path only because of the promise she gave to her father. Unfortunately she did not have much choice with Otto's terms after the coronation; once you run, you are always on the run. If she wasn't the heir and there was no prophecy (which in the end turned to be about right), it would have been interesting to see, what kind of ruler Aegon would have been. Team Black, for sure. They have dignity, something Team Green misses.
Is a disappointment The lack of nuance, i wanted to see when their last thread of restraint finally snapped or something, And what a waste of two beautiful actors like Olivia Cooke and Fabien Frankel, who had amazing chemistry, and they only got 10 seconds. The scene with Rhys was about 5 minutes! Where is the struggle...
Blood & Cheese scene was incredibly disappointing. Not because they didn’t show “it” happen but because it written like crap. Reading the scene in the book had more emotional & dramatic than what they did in the show.
Does no one else see what’s happening to Cole as a form of r*pe? The women he’s bedded since taking his oaths (like what, 18 years ago?-does the man not age?!?) all of those women have been the women directly giving him orders. The ones he’s sworn to obey. He literally cannot tell them “no”. I feel a little bad for him. Apparently, he could leave, as Ser Westerling did- but where would he go? We have seen him as a suicidal youth, saved by the Queen, and then perhaps he felt obligated to give his whole life to her- as he had previously done with Rhaenerya. However, when he was young and with the Princess, he refused to be anything but her husband, demanding that she give up all of her duty, family, etc and run away to marry him after she had sex with him ONCE. Now, many years later, he seems to know his place, and not be able to find the courage to leave and find his own happiness.. but, it’s nuanced, because then he is breaking his vows…. Idk. It’s a lot.
Incredibly wasted potential Blood and Cheese could have been so much better, Alicent and Cole was super dumb (what happened to their duty, decency, sacrifice spiel from Season 1?) no different than what he did with Rhaenerya in episode 4 Season 1. Most egregious of all was Balerion's skull is somehow on Dragonstone now. Should have also had Jeyne Arryn instead of Cregan and save him for episode 3 or something so he'd be interrupted from his mission after getting the Vale's support with Jeyne's speech from Fire and Blood
How disappointing, after two years waiting for the premiere episode of season two, and then we get This! No action and lots of talking. What a Hugh let Down! And please don’t anyone say they are just setting it up for the rest of the Series, We heard that all of season one. It’s time for some action,”Let’s Go” My Rating on season two episode one. “5” out of 10. Sorry🙁🇺🇸
How these 2 got anywhere in journalism is depressing. Nepo babys probs. And the actors have zero insight and are seemingly quite simple. Not listening to this agen what a waste of time
Olivia and Phia join in at 35:02
Thank you.
Really really thank you.
Not to be mean, but I'm only here to hear their takes on what happened.
It didn't make it any better 😂 2 randoms who read the book would have more interesting things to say
Thank you
SKIP TO 35:55 TO AVOID SHOW SPOILERS FROM BOOK READERS
Otto is the one who suggested that Viserys make Rheanyra his heir after the baby died because he didn't want Daemon to be King. Then he whored out his own daughter to Viserys resulting in a marriage & male heirs who could contest Rhaenyra's claim. He is absolutely culpable for the current conflict.
Exactly !!
@@jadefcx9912 нет визериса тоже виноват.
@@user-iz5oi487fk6g Viserys was very clear on who his heir is
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195и что нахуя тогда выходил, замуж наследник может быть только мужского пола.
Yet Corlys is respected even though he tried to get his 9 year old to marry the king...
Okay -- Jason can see the history of old Valyria IN THE TAPESTRY while the rest of us are still marveling at the needlework -- clearly the right people are in charge of this podcast ♥
they both have beautiful voices, wonderfully casted for such a tragic story to portray
35:02 Olivia Cooke and Phia Saban segment begins
you are doing gods work thank you
31:00 I think Daemon told them a son for a son, when asked if they couldn't find Aemond.
It was never shown so what u saying is head canon
@@tajaemartin2251 Or just having enough brain power to put two and two together which Blood quoting ""A son for a son". Does she look like a son to you?"
@@TorgoMazing everything u said was head canon, it was not shown so what u saying is copium lmao
@@tajaemartin2251 I guess there are stupid people who can't put two and two together
@@tajaemartin2251 That is the usual meaning of "I think".
Daemon doesn't get sad--he gets mad & then he gets even.
Love Olivia's take on the Alicent/Cole relationship - grief doing strange things to them, sex being the opposite of death. And you know what? Good for her, she deserves some good sex after almost 20 years with Viserys!
I feel glad for her, but she's such a hypocrite.
Claiming Rhaenyra is a slut while sleeping with her ex-lover and commander of the kingsguard days after her husband has been laid to rest.
As Aemond said accurately, she seems to speak with two tongues.
yeah, interesting, how much opionions can differ as soon as the perspective changes. While everyone blamed and judged Rhaenyra having Sex with Criston Cole, now it is okay, on the very same terms. Turns out, people are as much double-faced as the Greens. But this is not, what holds the world together, when it depends on it. Maybe the Targaryens and all their values should go on a long vacation and leave the world of Greens on their own. Just come with the dragons, when they are about to ruin everything 🤡
That ending line went so hard "they killed the boy" 😮😮😮
Direct association with what Maester Aemon tells Aegon V and Jon Snow. "Kill the boy and let the man be born."
Way I took the Daemon scene with Blood and Cheese is that he said “son for a son”, if they couldn’t find aemond.
No one said “son for a son” until Blood said it and no reason for him to make that up. Also it’s the name of the episode.
So yes and no, Daemon didn’t say kill the kid, but bring him the head of “a son”. Which is essentially the same thing since in the show Aegon only has one son when the books he has 2.
Не в сериале должен быть и мейлор.
I wish they show the video recording too
Kinda disturbing how many people are complaining the murder of a child wasn't graphic or shocking enough
I don’t think it’s necessarily a complaint, it’s just that this scene was so aggressively over hyped. They claimed that GRRM himself said it was worse than the red wedding, when it wasn’t even close to it. The book had more brutality in its dry historical description of events than the scene did in some ways. It was brutal, but it wasn’t book-brutal.
Yes, I thought it was better in the source material.
It is meant to be shocking.
It is meant to be retaliation.
A problem or something that looks suspicious about HOT D is that nothing seems to be anyone's fault.
Everything apparently occurs by mistake. It takes away from the independence and decision-making of the characters.
I am honestly disturbed you misunderstand people and see what you want to.
Nobody wanted it to be more brutal, I wanted it to have more weight.
It feels they've whitewashed the show or made characters more palatable. Except Daemon. For some reason, they keep editing him out to be the worst person ever, when he's supposed to be the greatest hero for many and the darkest villain for others.
because how it played out in the books is way worse but also extremely important for the character development of heleana and jahaera, the kids were also not asleep andnshe had to choose between her two sons. and since maelor is actually a reason for one of the coming future battles its not really explained why they cut him out, i mean they only needed a little baby or toddler , who doesnt even need to say anything
it was also that they hyped the scene up, and it had the potential to be amazing since the source aka the books gave them everything they needed, and whatbthey showed is a huge disappointment
and that they claimed that the author himself said that this scene in the show would be worse than the red wedding can only be. amlie, because the red wedding in the show was way worse than thid disappointment of a scene
Aemond is about to f*** s*** up.
38:00 I liked the book version better, with her choosing the baby Maelor. And how that affects her psychological.
I'm just wondering if Maelor exists at all.
@@mione134He doesn't. And now they'll have to make him…
I liked it better because of the “Sophie’s choice” of it.
However the way they have portrayed Helena so far, this could work better.
It was kinda heavy handed and almost exaggerated in the book imo (since it is a retelling). Blood telling a 2 year old that his mother chose him to die always felt exaggerated. It’s a 2 year old. He won’t understand him and won’t remember.
Dont get me wrong, it was brutal as hell in the books and genuinely shocking. I just don’t mind the way it happened in the show.
I’m curious how they handle Helena now.
They can still go the way the books went because of the way she chose which child to die (did she try to trick or not) or since there’s no 2nd son and how they’ve portrayed Helena as autistic, they can greatly expand on her story.
Maelor was a nothing character in the books tbh, I don’t see them making him like someone said in this thread. They can just use the daughter.
@@fy4b230 People talk to 2 year olds all the time, perfectly knowing they don't understand and don't remember. Maelor remembering something was not the point.
The other things you said sound reasonable enough, except that the daughter would not be enough for Aegon. In the books, he had another heir for some time, and when Maelor was killed, he even wanted to remarry just to father a son.
The "Sophie's choice" is exactly what happens in the books, by the way. They changed it, and I didn't notice a single good thing that came from it. Like not a single one.
@@_antillas8674 I think you misinterpreted what I said a little. I liked the book better because of the better portrayal of the Sophie’s choice.
That was what I meant with my first sentence of my post. I can see how it read the other way though. Cheers.
42:21 "mother sees her children as an extension of herself" okaaaaay Queen Cersei
they both have beautiful voices
Helaena is gonna have a sad ending. Cant wait for more drama.
A very sad ending spoiler alert she commits suicide
@@shighaffaar1254 Hate my fellow book readers like you. There’s no reason to spoil, they’ll find out eventually. If you’re going to spoil something then do something like “Spoiler warning:”
Then they would have to choose “show more” if they want a spoiler…
Exactly. This spoiler warming wasn’t preventing it from being spoiled anyway!
And I didn’t know she’ll commit S. I just knew she was gonna become very depressed and silent
@@shighaffaar1254
Delete this, you don't need to spoil it for the people who haven't read the books
The new Queen said she didn’t want her son to be King and Aegon still took him to Council. She definitely wasn’t going to punish her Daughter. She is now safe. Son Never was!
I think Daemon processes grief as a soldier/ warrior. I mean his job is taking out others who are his enemy. He sees death all the time. Also, the son that died wasn't his by blood, so he didn't maybe care as much. He would want his child to be heir before another man's/Strong by blood. Princess Rhaenys as a mother who has lost her children and grandchildren has more empathy for her. As even Alicent does by lighting the candle for Lucerys.
They could have cleared the situation; Targaryens don't talk? It seems, the Greens don't either.
Daemon lived with those kids and helped raise them. Of course he cared about Luc.
@@sneza3204 Right they could have, but at this point, I guess they were just done with talking and had enough of each other.
@@melissak8419 Speak for Alicent; if something is truly wanted, it will happen. It is a simple as that. Alicent did it only for herself, to comfort herself. Even then she could have written a letter, if she really wanted to prevent war, clearing up. But it would have needed an acceptance in adavance, that something the person itself did wrong. Otherweise it is just comforting oneself.
I wasn't that struck by the final event of the episode. With exception to the beheading of Ned Stark it's not like GoT to do violence and gore offscreen. I saw a somewhat emotionless Helaena immediately point to her son when asked and then grab her daughter and flee. So to me, the heart-wrenchingness people are referring to is only from projecting one's one emotion onto what it would be like to have one's child murdered in front of them-- not from the actual execution of the scene.
I feel like Aegon is the same dude. He just finds it entertaining to play the role of a good king.
Blood and Cheese came and they were brutal, they further escalated the bad blood between the Greens and the Blacks. It's now in the hands of the dragons, sadly 😥
42:25 Olivia is so correct here, how many parents deny that their child is "unusual" in any way. So many people are coming out with stories that their parents knew they're autistic or have ADHD or depressive tendencies or are queer or intersex and they just refuse it and never tell their kids and just let them struggle most of their lives because they just have that much of a blind spot
Brilliant start to the second season! I will ask… not all of us have read the books so please be more careful of spoilers. You kind of hinted at a future event in this podcast, so maybe use other modal verbs instead of “will”, like “might” or “may”.
I did not see the Episode, just listening to the Podcast. From this, I hear, that Alicent and Ser Criston have an affair. So two questions: WHY the f...k everyone went nuts about Rhaenyra wanting and had Sex with Ser Criston. She took all the blame of literally everyone that had an opionion on it, whatever that was. With all understanding for Alicent and the reasons mentioned here, on why she agreed to it, she is none of that, she wanted to see herself. In the end, Rhaenyra was absolutely about right, when she said to her, that "now they see you, as you are". And Ser Criston Cole, who blamed Rhyaenyra, she wants to make him a whore, became one. Actually, I would go a step forward and say, that Rhaenyra was in Love with him; he wasn't fun or pleasure for her. And if Ser Criston was honest, she wasn't too. But, there we go. One for the last: I had that slight feeling that there was something already between Alicent and SCC on the Episode with the funeral scene of Laena. That one short, brisk moment, when Lord Commander Westerling asked about who should stand watch, and Viserys looked at Alicent and SCC, and said no, it doesn't have to be the latter. Rhyaenyra was so about right, when she chose her heritance over a Ser Criston Cole. Lord Commander Westerling had all my sympathy for leaving the small council, actually doing, what Ser Criston Cole could have done. I bet, he knew it that moment, when Westerling left the room.
Now we all know why jon snow kept saying "she is my queen"
Please no.😂
The Tully’s all having Sesame Street names is sending me
I’m sure the BINGO card will be full by episode 4 lol
Otto is out of his depth now. He assumes he can still call the shots but the new generation of royals is unhinged.
Children never did listen to Adults cause the Adults never shown real Morals either. Kids know this!
@@TRIPTHEMAN65 Yea! The usual 'you will not do X because I said so!' barely works on normal children, it definitely won't work for the royal children 😅
Great podcast!!! Keep up the awesome work!!!!
I know it’s funny Crispin and Alicent being together, but for a podcast that discusses stuff, y’all are not discussing their hypocrisy? They shamed and made Rhaenya’s life miserable for brunching around outside of wedlock, only to turn around and do the same themselves 😂 that would be funny to talk about as well
Well nobody is married anymore :D
@@TheEnecca , yes, but Criston shouldn't be with ANY woman. He made a vow of chastity when he was anointed as a kingsguard, so he is a hypocrite; therefore, both are hypocrites. They spent years talking crap about Rhaenyra, and now IN THE SAME ROOM he broke his vows with the princess he KEEPS doing the same crap with Alicent. And Alicent should know better! I'm not complaining that she has a sex life, the problem is with who
@piperldy I think for Alicent it's also a matter of availability and proximity. Crispin is her sworn shield so they have an excuse for being alone. It's like the medieval equivalent of having an affair with a coworker at a job that requires you to travel together. You're already in the same hotel so might as well
@@piperldy His oath is already broken, he was so eaten by it that he almos killed himself but Alicent saved him.
Not really, they were teenagers when the whole thing happened. Alicent did her duty and no she is not duty-bound--Rhaenyra chose pleasure before duty. Cole was so eaten by the fact that he broke his oath for Rhaenyra and her dumping him that he almost killed himself. They are far too complex to be considered just hypocrites.
completely ruined it. It's not even about the
gruesomeness that makes blood and cheese impactful in the book but the dynamics and that little bit of dialogue that makes it such a psychological horror leading to the character development for Alicent and Helena
Not brunch 😭😭😭
I am loving this show and think the scene was horrifying enough without the extra dialouge etc from the books. I truly do not think anything more was necessary because it was disturbing enough and accomplished officially starting the war.
I'm the originator of the following theory and I think it should be done!
I believe they may have added in the adsence of Maelor as a storyline. Hear me out Maelor being unborn at this time, then Aegon flying to Rooks Rest and what we believe happens to him actually happens; significantly weakens his claim. In turn this will create an issue in the line of succession. As people may speculate that Aegon will be able to produce no more heirs leading to the same problem occurring all over again. People speculate that Aemond is the father of Jhaerys, what if they've done this to show that Maelor is the son of Aemond. He will step in 'do his duty' as he claimed he would on Driftmark and father Maelor on Helena to strengthen the claim to the throne. I think they might do this though, as people have been speculating and it will be a magnificent addition and add the element of show don't tell. I hope this makes some semblance of sense. To add to this, It will also go to show how the Greens only see women as brooding mares and not to be placed in the line of succession. I've struck gold and if the writers have done this to intentionally set this up then they did it well. If not they should do this because I'm clearly a better writer. HA!
Agree? Credit This Bitch!
But… Jaehaera is already born, she is the kid that Helaeana took to Alicent at the end of the episode. Aegon III is born already too, to Rhaenyra and Daemon. So no need for Aemond to father anyone, both exist already.
@@mns2137 Yeah I don't know what I was talking about there but I think the strengthening of the line will play a role.
Good episode but the blood and cheese change was not a good one. Having Helena choose which on of her kids to be killed, and having the one chosen live and know that his mother picked him to die is a lot more impactful for everyone as opposed to what we saw tonight.
She still chooses and gives up her son, that’s not gonna not mess her up. And she saw it. I understand why they changed it, it might have been to difficult to film/show
@@WBSlashH yes but it is so much more damaging in the books where she and her kid have to deal with the fact that she chose to have him killed. I don’t think it would have been difficult to show. Just have them ask which one she wants to die, she chooses the younger and then the younger lives. They don’t have to show the beheading on screen, they can leave that the same as shot in the show, however I think the choice is what adds that next level of fucked up to the dance.
@@Toaster7 I agree really, I’m just not as disappointed as some are about it. However we don’t know the full outcome until the end of the season. We will have to see how it effects the dance and Helena
@@Toaster7 Jaehaerys needed the younger brother Maelor for the choice to work. HBO failed to write Maelor in, so the daughter in comparison is to low of a tier for there to be a choice it's always going to be Jaehaerys in this scenario. In "Fire and Blood" it does seem that Haelena has a real choice to make in her mind she rationalized that her youngest son Maelor was the most expendable.
The writing was just bad. I thought GRRM has something to say regarding the show but it doesn't seem like that.. Just everything about how they handled blood and cheese was so underwhelming and not even close to how impactful it was in the books. Plus there were some dumb moments: No guards (super unrealistic), the murderer being coldblooded when it came to killing the boy but he didn't dare looking into his pants if he was a boy or a girl?. Furthermore they didn't tie the queen up and rather let her escape? And this whole blood and cheese scene was meant to be shocking and showing how brutal the war really is, but seriously: This TV-Show could simply be shown during daytime in the TV. It lacks in darkness and disturbing moments unlike the book or GoT. It seems like they try to attract a big mass of viewers but they forgot that GoT attracted so many people despite being so brutal and dark. I hope it gets better but my expectations are extremely low. I think you don't come aroud comparing GoT and HotD with each other, but HotD is not nowhere close to how good GoT was.
9:05 I only remember reading about Alysanne's mount not flying over the Wall. I don't remember Vermithor (king Jaehaerys' dragon) being mentioned even trying to fly over. The show writers made a mistake in that episode, I think. Might be wrong, it's been a long time since I've read it.
"Alysanne wrote to Jaehaerys that she was troubled by the fact that Silverwing refused to fly over the Wall, despite never refusing her commands previously."
What is the song at the end credit of this episode with the cool violin sound??
They played Daemon telling B&C to specifically kill Aemond and asked whether he wanted to the young prince killed. No! B&C are just too stupid and came to the conclusion that any prince will do.
I was also very surprised by aegon this episode. I was not so much surprised as his eagerness to be king, but by how complex he was. I think season 1 it was “he’s lazy and gross and that’s it”
And in the first episode it was a mix of he’s naive and eager to learn and do better, but also he’s still clearly very aloof about a lot. He wants to bring Jahaereys to the small council because Viserys didn’t do that for him. Aegon was probably made to always go to study and school, and he might have resented that. So he’s doing what he wished his father would have done with him. But also, he doesn’t know where and when he studies. I think Tom Glynn Carney mentioned that aegon was probably present for the fun moments. If the kids wanted to play, aegon probably participated, but he just isn’t interested in the actual raising of the kids.
Just overall I was impressed with the added layers to aegon as a character
Alicent getting some is so hypocritical because she's doing the very thing she hated Rhaenyra for.
I felt bad for Helaena because she's innocent but what did the Greens (Aemond and Aegon) think would happen, that they could kill a member of team black and that none of them would be harmed back?!
We Love Aegon ❤
A missed opportunity with Blood/Cheese, so many elements of what made that moment a MOMENT weren't present:
• Helaena's impossible CHOICE. If the writer's thought infanticide was the "shock value" of the Blood/Cheese moment, they're wrong & showing they don't understand the source material.
It was more about Helaena's choice, an impossible one for a MOTHER to make, but she's forced to do it, even after pleading for them to take 𝘩𝘦𝘳 life instead (something Show Helaena doesn't even offer to do??).
Even without Maelor, as the "spare", this moment as the show did it with just the twins could've hit harder if Helaena was forced to choose which one to sacrifice VS just point out which one is the boy 🙃
• I know it's been forever ago & most of us are blocking out GOT, but GOT had a scene with a mother/baby getting unalived. When Joffrey ordered all of Robert's bastards to be killed & one was a baby. They cut the scene, just showed us the mother's horrified reaction...
NO ONE in the fandom wants to actually see a child/baby unalived or beheaded. What's not seen is sometimes more powerful, same here. & I'm just pointing out GOT show has done this before.
I get that we're going with Helaena is "different" or on the spectrum & she hasn't had a "normal" response to ANYTHING, if you watch her in S1...but still weird to not have her be more panicked or something.
• Alicent not being present. This one is more minor overall. But it would've been the better call to have her gagged/bound & watching this unfold, helpless to stop it, as in the book. Alicent already feels uneasy, guilty & helpless over what Aemond did & this is a clear act of vengeance for it. It just reinforces for her all the "doom" she's complicit in bc she crowned Aegon.
Having her get dicked down by Criston instead feels disassociated from everything else going on.
Overall the episode was a 6.5/10, but it could've been a solid 8-9/10, if we had raised the stakes & stuck closer to the book/lore.
ALL of ASOIAF books pull zero punches with its characters & events, it's a shame/disappointing the show does.
👏👏👏👏👏
Agree completely.
And furthermore, with the Alicent and Criston scene, they've butchered both of their characters, especially Criston. They already did him dirty in S1, now he's nothing. At least before this he wasn't a hypocrite, now he's that as well, same as Alicent. And putting that scene right after Blood and Cheese where we're supposed to be horrified at the blacks...
The rest of the episode was good, and that's incredible. They did best where they got almost no source material, but where they did have they blew it by making things up.
I think I'll convince myself that this final part doesn't exist, Jaheaerys chocked on his breakfast and that's it, rather than remembering this atrocious ending.
GOT !!!!!
44:56 for my alicole girlies
Thank you!!
Dirty
I love youuuu
Thank you!! 👑
Team Black
I saw the burning Aaron hall Megor, the cruel The division of the house of green yeah was nice very different
Brunch! Nice
Two things I’m NOT looking forward to is Helaena jumping and the Gullet because it means we lose my 2 favorite characters. Thank you for being awesome EVERYONE on HOTD. (Even Rhys ifans who plays a very despicable character)
How do you not even have Helaena offer her life for her children?
Blood and Cheese was laid out plainly in the book, and you threw it out for no reason.
"How do you not even have Helaena offer her life for her children?" -- Helaena is not neurotypical ... plus she's terrified
George keeps handing these people diamonds... And, well.
thats silly. neurotypical people can still be self sacrificial. to me, she had already offered the necklace and they threatened all 3 of them...she assumed if she offered herself then they'd all be slaughtered. hence why she wanted the guy to know she was pointing out the boy and not to kill both and her to be sure.
Alicent is a big ol 304 hypocrite.
And the writers put it simultaneously with B&C. What a disgrace.
That's what they wanted to portray to demonize the greens. In the book she's gagged and thrown into a corner to watch the entirety of the horror play out. Guess hack Condal skimmed over that part.
@@kenmasters1803 son for a son….
Team Black !!.
Seriously, the writers ruined blood and cheese. It was written so badly and underwhelming and had almost zero emotional impact. All that happened before the event was good, but why the hell did you have to destroy such an impactful moment of the books? It felt almost boring to watch. No guards in the castle, no one getting caught, not showing the brutal death (not that I like to see something like this, but come on, brutal and disturbing scenes always fit into this world. In the books it was an red wedding-moment, but here it was just lame.), the queen almost seems emotionless. WTF? You didn't do the show a favor when hiring these writers. And what comes to my mind: The man murdered the king's son coldblooded but didn't dare to verify who's the boy or the girl? And instead of bonding the queen they just let her escape? It was written so poorly and extremely lowered my expectations for the following episodes. HotD is not not half as good written as Game of Thrones was.
You must be fun at parties 😂
Really like the podcast but Jason's voice. It's hard to listen to at times.
Yes. He has the male version of « vocal fry » yuck.
55:30 That deserves a dislike just for recognizing that bird app as "X" 💀
criston cole doing it with alicent makes NO sense for his character. he did NOT want love conducted in hiding, uncleanly and without honour. alicent offered him what rhaenyra had supposedly taken away with her “spidery” guiles: his unsoiled white cloak, his honour. for crying out loud!
i agree it taints alicent's character as a religious and dutiful person as well
@@Hikikomortis alicent i might believe, but cole ending up doing sthg he changed sides for, sthg he denied doing with a girl he loved to begin with, is “ironic” to say the least. he was about to kill himself last season. if he’s with alicent now, that means that some change inside him happened in the first season, sometime probably during the time elapsed off screen, after rhaenyra’s marriage and before her giving birth to joffrey, and that he was already sleeping with her then. because nothing so big has happened in the maximum of two weeks between this season and the last that could have determined them to go to bed together all of sudden, after 20 years of chaste service.
They ruined and twisted his character completely. And almost from the very beginning.
Whose idea was it to have him butcher Laenor's lover in the middle of a wedding? Not even a queen could have saved him from something like that.
Yeah screw all of that. Let's make the Greens as villainous and as hypocritical as possible.
@@_antillas8674 that, him exploding at the idea at being thrown together with the other dirtied up, honourless people made sense. this does not make sense. or turns him into an even worse bastard than he was. he is willing to be alicent’s “whore,” but not rhaenyra’s. and still holds a grudge for rhaenyra, which means he still resents what she’s done to him/with him. maybe they’ll elaborate in coming episodes.
If Dany was in Rhaenys position there was no argument that she would jump on Drogon and flee with Daemon to KL.These people all talking about the politics, the realm, the people and in the end we know how it is end's.Trully indecisiveness of all this peoples in right time and right target caused they downfall.Only empty talks and disasters after disasters while they talk.
Dany in the finale yes, Dany before Missandei and Jorah died - no.
@@VX3960 No she would,no doubt.Unlike Rhaenyra she was very decisive and fearless, never doubted in her self.But she had Drogon and Rhaenyra have unicorn so ...
0:10 hoary, not whorey Vhagar
Condal should be nowhere near this show. Pure fanfiction nonsense - Alicent and Cole have no romantic relationship in the book, let's turn Blood and Cheese from the harrowing psychological horror it was to slapstick comedy, JUST to shift the blame onto the Greens for being hypocritical and negligent. ANYTHING they could do to steer your attention away from Daemon and Rhaenyra plotting child murder (including a random dog being kicked, they knew normies would be enraged) they did. Aemond was never the target in the book, it was always one of the children. Haelaena's choice, the rape threats, your mama wants you dead, Alicent tied up in the corner, her handmaids slain... all cut. Condal is an absolute D&D tier hack.
You are saying so much about books, the beauty of this show is, they can do stuff like this and still keep it true to book. As the book is from the perspective of a in-world character, so even if target was aemond, it will never be recorded in book just like Aemond mistakenly killing Luke was not mentioned. Similarly, Alicent and Cole is a secret so they won't be mentioned in book. Enjoy the show mate, if you want to stick to the book 100%, it will be very bland of a show.
@@0___.a._.d._.i._.t._.y._.a___0 Condal's rendition of House of Rhaenyra will never be considered canon by book readers. He's straight up inventing things that were not even remotely hinted at in the source material. This is hack fanfiction, nothing more
@@kenmasters1803 opinions opinions, I read the books and I found this series really fascinating. Upto your interpretation though
Oh, and one more: eveyone went nuts, Rhaenyra having Sex with Ser Criston Cole. I wonder, how this relationship between Alicent and Crispy Creme, as it is one, will be looked upon. It's the same situation as with Rhaenyra: he is Alicent's sworn protector; he shouldn't have Sex with her. So, I am just curious to know, what is the reason that gives approval in this case? Understanding for Alicent's biography? A lot have mocked about Rhaenyra being the daughter of the king and in a powerful position, to have misused this; but what about now? It only proves, that people want to see, what they want to see. That people WANT to see the glam, the shiny, the nice, the countable; everything that goes beyond it, the dark, the own fears, the own disgusts, the own inner horror-shows, that is not wanted. So people still prefer nice and shiny and glamour and nice smells over things they are afraid of, they are trying to hide and run away. It is so much easier, isn't it? And by this, they are able to literally isolate and let those other ones die. All this because people still rather follow and take the easy way instead of to use what they have to move forward. But cry out when things start to go wrong. I said it once and it seems, I was not so wrong about it: Rhaenyra went on this path only because of the promise she gave to her father. Unfortunately she did not have much choice with Otto's terms after the coronation; once you run, you are always on the run. If she wasn't the heir and there was no prophecy (which in the end turned to be about right), it would have been interesting to see, what kind of ruler Aegon would have been. Team Black, for sure. They have dignity, something Team Green misses.
Is a disappointment The lack of nuance, i wanted to see when their last thread of restraint finally snapped or something, And what a waste of two beautiful actors like Olivia Cooke and Fabien Frankel, who had amazing chemistry, and they only got 10 seconds. The scene with Rhys was about 5 minutes! Where is the struggle...
the struggle is in that double-face perspective ;)
you screwed Blood and Choose so badly.
Hweeppppuuh whaaaaaaawwwwwww...
I'm sure Jason is a nice guy but my god that voice... Ooof
They missed a HUGE opportunity with B&C. It was watered down and it lost it's impact.
Because impactful things do not happen to tg, only to tb
Blood & Cheese scene was incredibly disappointing. Not because they didn’t show “it” happen but because it written like crap. Reading the scene in the book had more emotional & dramatic than what they did in the show.
这种改编，还不如不改编
Does no one else see what’s happening to Cole as a form of r*pe? The women he’s bedded since taking his oaths (like what, 18 years ago?-does the man not age?!?) all of those women have been the women directly giving him orders. The ones he’s sworn to obey. He literally cannot tell them “no”. I feel a little bad for him. Apparently, he could leave, as Ser Westerling did- but where would he go? We have seen him as a suicidal youth, saved by the Queen, and then perhaps he felt obligated to give his whole life to her- as he had previously done with Rhaenerya. However, when he was young and with the Princess, he refused to be anything but her husband, demanding that she give up all of her duty, family, etc and run away to marry him after she had sex with him ONCE. Now, many years later, he seems to know his place, and not be able to find the courage to leave and find his own happiness.. but, it’s nuanced, because then he is breaking his vows…. Idk. It’s a lot.
They messed up the blood and cheese scene. It was supposed to be traumatizing.
Incredibly wasted potential Blood and Cheese could have been so much better, Alicent and Cole was super dumb (what happened to their duty, decency, sacrifice spiel from Season 1?) no different than what he did with Rhaenerya in episode 4 Season 1. Most egregious of all was Balerion's skull is somehow on Dragonstone now. Should have also had Jeyne Arryn instead of Cregan and save him for episode 3 or something so he'd be interrupted from his mission after getting the Vale's support with Jeyne's speech from Fire and Blood
It's Merraxes Skull. It has a huge hole on the eye where it was shot... I think.
How disappointing, after two years waiting for the premiere episode of season two, and then we get This! No action and lots of talking. What a Hugh let Down! And please don’t anyone say they are just setting it up for the rest of the Series, We heard that all of season one. It’s time for some action,”Let’s Go” My Rating on season two episode one. “5” out of 10. Sorry🙁🇺🇸
Derp Kkona
go watch an action movie then
How these 2 got anywhere in journalism is depressing. Nepo babys probs. And the actors have zero insight and are seemingly quite simple. Not listening to this agen what a waste of time
meh ep 1...should have shown everything !!! head off and all that
Most of the episode are fine even good. But the B&C part just ruined.(Phia is amazing.🩵 The plot changes are suck 😢