I enjoyed the video and all the points you're making. In my systems, I prefer to have CEP enable, so I m using a hybrid method of AC_LL and offset for my under-volt with good results. I also agree with the idea of you, making an under-volt tutorial because it would help so many people out there. Thanks!
even if there was a percent or 2 of performance, a choice between "burn out your $600 cpu in a year or 2, or have a minor performance decrease" should be easy for most people ...
I'm disappointed with the 0x12B microcode. I can't use AC_LL with CEP enabled anymore. I used to run AC 0.1, DC 1.1 & LLC 3 on my ASUS motherboard. First thing I noticed is that my RAM OC is now unstable and I had to lower my command rate from 1T to 2T which makes me upset as I spent a week testing it for stability. Also, applying a -100mV adaptive SVID seems to do nothing at all. Both idle and load voltage are now higher and my Cinebench score dropped by ~8%. It's a lose-lose situation. My CPU had not degraded in 2 years of using it.
Your 13th gen is performing better than my 14th gen kf. I'm only getting 36500 cinebench R23. Granted i'm new to all of this and didn't have XMP enabled. So think i'm going to try this new Ox12B microcode with XMP enabled and see where my score stands. Honestly, i just want a safe CPU at the end of the day. I really don't think i've got any degradation as everything runs great, the few crashes i did have was playing early access games like The Forever Winter so im going to chalk it up to that.
@@dainluke Installed the Ox12B microcode last night. Got a Cinebench R23 score of 37800 with Intel Default Settings. Noticed Single core throttle despite good temps. Turned off Intel Boost Tech, fixed that. Definitely needs a tad bit more tuning. I'll see about the TVB as well. But all in all not terrible on stock settings.
i have a i7-14700F with a gigabyte b760m ds3h motherboard. i installed F18d bios update that included 0x129 microcode and undervolted -0.100 leaving everything on auto/default. a month and a half later, i never had any problem, crashing, BSoD,etc. everything ran below 1.3v or just a tiny bit above 1.3v under load(not that heavy, just gaming). last night i found that gigabyte released F19 bios update. Man, what a shitshow it was, Core VIDs, vcore, and vr-vout all increased those values, even higher than 1.4v reaching 1.45v idle (just loading windows). i undervolted -0.100v and then -0.125v but still got higher numbers in idle than gaming with F18d version so i decided to go back to that. thankfully i had that version saved because gigabyte deleted it from their website after releasing the F19 version last september. i don't know what is going on, but there's my 2 cents of personal experience with this crap intel problem.
Just lock the p Cores at 5.7 e cores at 4.5 with a v droop from 3.5 V to 2.7 and no core degradation. If you Have a not so good chip up the voltage a tenth or so Ez Peezy
@@dainluke I just got my 14700k replaced about two weeks too. I'm seeing weird fluctuations even after 0x125 and 0x129. MSI really dropping the ball on this right now. I haven't heard of any other z690 boards not getting the 0x12b update. I'm almost tempted to put this board in the trash and go get another one and upgrade to DDR5, but at that point I kind of just want to switch to AMD...
I’m having difficulty understanding what you mean by AC_LL targets: Crap CPU 0.5 decent CPU .25 etc. I’m new to all this. I found this setting by changing the CPU lite load control to advanced and now shows the CPU AC Load Line. It’s set to auto and shows 110 as the current setting
what about the setting enhanced c-states is it forced on like on ASUS mobo with 0X12B microcode? for me on the apex encore it forced on and ruins the performance so badly also the latency much bad now! the meaning for C1E state for the cpu
@@YGadgETech Unfortunately 0x12B does force it. It shouldn’t matter much for gaming and heavier apps though. It forces the CPU to downclock during light loads.
@ I don’t think there’s any real benefit in disabling it for practical use. If you need to keep it disabled, the older BIOS should still be fine enough to use.
I have noticed a slight drop on single threaded but not change to multithreaded. Also do we have any idea what this microcode actuallt changes? Its difficult to observe difference in voltage spikes at light loads.
@@louiienation8497 My BIOS defaults AC_LL to 0.74, which is below spec. I personally use 0.2 which is even further below spec. I’m fortunate that my chip doesn’t require Intel spec to run properly (when the current and power limits are in place). Temperature wise, it’s definitely only as low as it is because of the 253W power limit being locked in.
@@dainluke do you have a video or tutorial on how to undervolt? I’m running an on my 13900k but I’m pretty sure I’m not doing it right cause I dropped it -.075 but no offset was adjusted.
@@louiienation8497 I don’t, but you’re not the first to ask. I think I’ll go ahead and make one later today. It’s probably a good idea by this point. Regarding your offset issue - I know exactly what you mean. If I may ask, which board are you using? I just want to get an indication of what your AC_LL probably is.
@@dainluke I’m running a Z790-E Asus board with a i9-13900k and yes I think it would be great to do a tutorial on it. Preferably on a Asus board if possible. I’d really appreciate it so much.
@@louiienation8497 I can’t guarantee this will be fine, but for the time being, setting the SVID to Typical Scenario as opposed to Intel’s Fail Safe, in conjunction with disabling CEP, should give you great load Vcore whilst maintaining good performance. If you own an SP 100 or better, Typical Scenario should run pretty easily. I think your negative offset isn’t working because undervolt protection is enabled. Keep in mind that Typical Scenario is a pretty shallow AC_LL, so you may only have 0-0.025mV of potential offset alongside the Typical Scenario SVID.
Hello, good coverage. I should ask you, is it bad that my pc has been running 1.4-1.5V idle voltages for 4 months? I got this 14700k in June with an MSI z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI. Since the news I’ve just been installing some of the microcodes and left int default settings. I don’t think I’ve had my cpu crash but still worried these idle voltages are unhealthy and have degraded my cpu. Under stress test my cpu would go down to 1.2-1.3. I have disabled Enhanced Turbo which hasn’t done anything noticeable to idle volts/temps. Would appreciate any advice.
@@88prince I’d say so. I’d highly recommend trying to reduce MSI Lite Load’s mode as close to 1 as possible. Lite load controls AC_LL. You might need to disable CEP to prevent performance reduction.
@@dainluke Thanks for the advice, I’ve been looking at other comments you’ve made. I went down to Mode 5 and disabled IA/GT CEP which significantly lowered temps and voltages for both idle and stress in cinebench 2024 test (which even had a slightly higher score by 50pts). Idle is floating above 1.3V which i assume is safe and will no longer cause degradation. 1.4-1.5V is a difference. I just hope my cpu hasn’t degraded already. Also I tried mode 1 but my PC just crashed upon running a stress test and idle volts still were close 1.3 V most of the time. I’d rather keep it at 5 as the difference seems small. Also for anyone that may be interested, my PL1 and PL2 are on auto (253W) which I believe are intel default settings and the microcode is x012B of course.
@dainluke I have a Asus Prime Z790-A have loaded defult like they recommends only Apply XMP . I can se my IA AC/DC is 0.400 / 1.100 mOhm in hw monitor . And the Svid behavior is set to intel failsafe as deafult in bios wtf ?!
@@ArkenShromAbuser If you head to VRM settings, you’re likely going to see that the option to sync is enabled. You should be fine to head to BIOS and switch to Typical Scenario SVID. Just be sure to disable CEP, and it should run fine.
@@ArkenShromAbuser I would keep the Intel power limits and current limits in place, change SVID to Typical Scenario, disable CEP, and I’d probably disable the synchronise load line option. If you disable synchronise, and you leave LLC on auto, you’ll have the old style Asus settings. Those settings were never an issue for the i7. Just let me know what you see.
If I change the LLC, is the microcode change still active? I heard that changing any settings will inactivate the new microcode and thus the protection from voltage spikes.
Wow! I love that you are in South Africa. I am still going bonkers working through my cpu issues with Wootware…. Not a big gamer so I am not sure how to determine if this is a Me problem or really degradation. Gigabyte is being slow on the third update. Only been out for premium boards so far. Hoping for a 0x12B fix.
Windows keeps crashing mostly when I am using the Arc with the 13900kf. Not under load. It passes all the benchmarking and stress tests there are. But I will be there not moving the most or doing anything then I hear the fans going loud and boot screen appears. No BSOD. Just straight from idle windows to boot screen. I managed to peep at voltage before one of these crashes and 0.700s. Was fine for 2 years then started the bios updates when 0x129 as suggested by everyone and less than a month later…. Ignorance was such bliss.😊
@@tlalipheko5504 Are you sure this isn’t an issue with the card itself perhaps? If you’re passing stress tests then it’s unlikely this is the CPU. It could be that voltage is dropping too far at idle? You could enable undervolt protection to prevent that.
I just built a new pc with i7 14700k, after getting to windows I immediately downloaded latest microcode update, I have a msi z790 mag Tomahawk max wifi, I updated bios, however when running hwinfo64 I see that volts go up to 1.48 for brief moments, how can I deal with that? Can I help by undervolting?
@@Takeito_ Head to the section in “Advanced CPU” labelled MSI Lite Load. Select “Advanced” and check what the AC_LL is. You’re likely going to see 110 (1.1 mOhm). You’re going to want to either change the Lite Load Mode to reduce that value, or simply type in a less value of maybe 50 or 60 (as opposed to 110).
I just went into that and CPU lite load control was in "normal" when I changed it to advance it indeed showed me 110 but there are two load lines "AC" and "DC" should I put 60 on both and could you explain again what will that do in terms of volts/temps/performance? Shouldn't I try with a less aggressive decreased value and monitor?
I have 23 different modes in lite load, 16 is chosen by default (auto) maybe I can try and choose 14 or 15 and start monitoring to see how it does in terms of volts/temps?
@@Takeito_ I’m going to give you one response that’s more concise. Setting DC_LL without matching it to the corresponding motherboard VRM LLC setting (you need to know the VRM values off hand) will compromise accuracy of the package power sensor. You don’t have to do manual AC_LL values, but I’d definitely drop down to Mode 10 at the bear minimum. I think you’re going to be fine as low as Mode 5. Mode 10 equates to 0.6 mOhm of AC_LL. 0.6 is still a substantial amount of voltage. Average quality chips operate totally fine in the 0.2-0.4 mOhm range, but I’d say go ahead and testing Mode 10 and reduce from there to see how low you can get your voltages.
@@yuan.pingchen3056 It’s a tough question to answer. I would like to believe it is, but the use case that these recent microcode patches have addressed are incredibly niche and hard to test. Buildzoid made some good videos demonstrating 14900K single core voltage behaviour. In that video you can clearly see his chip using far too much operating voltage when he would run single core R15.
@@dainluke I still have a msi z790 tomahawk max wifi motherboard, it's unused, no body want buy this one, so maybe I can only sell it as parts, for example: NVME heatsink , qualcomm wifi 7 card etc... what a sad story....
I enjoyed the video and all the points you're making. In my systems, I prefer to have CEP enable, so I m using a hybrid method of AC_LL and offset for my under-volt with good results. I also agree with the idea of you, making an under-volt tutorial because it would help so many people out there. Thanks!
even if there was a percent or 2 of performance, a choice between "burn out your $600 cpu in a year or 2, or have a minor performance decrease" should be easy for most people ...
@@andytroo fair point
I'm disappointed with the 0x12B microcode. I can't use AC_LL with CEP enabled anymore. I used to run AC 0.1, DC 1.1 & LLC 3 on my ASUS motherboard. First thing I noticed is that my RAM OC is now unstable and I had to lower my command rate from 1T to 2T which makes me upset as I spent a week testing it for stability.
Also, applying a -100mV adaptive SVID seems to do nothing at all. Both idle and load voltage are now higher and my Cinebench score dropped by ~8%. It's a lose-lose situation. My CPU had not degraded in 2 years of using it.
Your 13th gen is performing better than my 14th gen kf. I'm only getting 36500 cinebench R23. Granted i'm new to all of this and didn't have XMP enabled. So think i'm going to try this new Ox12B microcode with XMP enabled and see where my score stands.
Honestly, i just want a safe CPU at the end of the day.
I really don't think i've got any degradation as everything runs great, the few crashes i did have was playing early access games like The Forever Winter so im going to chalk it up to that.
@@TheGarnerjustin73 Disable TVB if you can, and just tune your AC_LL.
@@dainluke Installed the Ox12B microcode last night. Got a Cinebench R23 score of 37800 with Intel Default Settings. Noticed Single core throttle despite good temps. Turned off Intel Boost Tech, fixed that. Definitely needs a tad bit more tuning. I'll see about the TVB as well. But all in all not terrible on stock settings.
i have a i7-14700F with a gigabyte b760m ds3h motherboard. i installed F18d bios update that included 0x129 microcode and undervolted -0.100 leaving everything on auto/default. a month and a half later, i never had any problem, crashing, BSoD,etc. everything ran below 1.3v or just a tiny bit above 1.3v under load(not that heavy, just gaming). last night i found that gigabyte released F19 bios update. Man, what a shitshow it was, Core VIDs, vcore, and vr-vout all increased those values, even higher than 1.4v reaching 1.45v idle (just loading windows). i undervolted -0.100v and then -0.125v but still got higher numbers in idle than gaming with F18d version so i decided to go back to that. thankfully i had that version saved because gigabyte deleted it from their website after releasing the F19 version last september. i don't know what is going on, but there's my 2 cents of personal experience with this crap intel problem.
i got a new 14700k from intel cuz the old degraded. got a good undervolt on it, ive never seen it go above 1.359 vcore in any scenario
it is a thing of those who build the boards to test the best conditions - but the most doesnt intrest how high your energy bill will be just like amd
@@ApeStimplair-et9yk From an efficiency standpoint, AMD definitely wins.
Just lock the p Cores at 5.7 e cores at 4.5 with a v droop from 3.5 V to 2.7 and no core degradation. If you Have a not so good chip up the voltage a tenth or so Ez Peezy
still waiting for 0x12b for my z690 (MSI pro ddr4). Kinda getting annoyed with MSI recently
@@Munky332 My friend is as well. 0x12B is actually very important.
@@dainluke I just got my 14700k replaced about two weeks too. I'm seeing weird fluctuations even after 0x125 and 0x129. MSI really dropping the ball on this right now. I haven't heard of any other z690 boards not getting the 0x12b update.
I'm almost tempted to put this board in the trash and go get another one and upgrade to DDR5, but at that point I kind of just want to switch to AMD...
@@Munky332 For the time being, try disabling TVB. I’m not sure if it’ll work, but if it does it would be a lot better for your chip health.
I’m having difficulty understanding what you mean by AC_LL targets: Crap CPU 0.5 decent CPU .25 etc. I’m new to all this. I found this setting by changing the CPU lite load control to advanced and now shows the CPU AC Load Line. It’s set to auto and shows 110 as the current setting
@@frankmjr6571 With MSI it’s multiplied by 100 when you go to advanced. You can also adjust the mode (downwards) to decrease it.
what about the setting enhanced c-states is it forced on like on ASUS mobo with 0X12B microcode? for me on the apex encore it forced on and ruins the performance so badly also the latency much bad now! the meaning for C1E state for the cpu
@@YGadgETech Unfortunately 0x12B does force it. It shouldn’t matter much for gaming and heavier apps though. It forces the CPU to downclock during light loads.
@ but it seems only for ASUS it’s happening for Msi and gigabyte you can still tweak the setting and disable it for what I see
@ I don’t think there’s any real benefit in disabling it for practical use. If you need to keep it disabled, the older BIOS should still be fine enough to use.
@ but can I roll back with new Intel ME version ?
@ which mobo vendor do you have btw?
I have noticed a slight drop on single threaded but not change to multithreaded.
Also do we have any idea what this microcode actuallt changes? Its difficult to observe difference in voltage spikes at light loads.
Are you running all intel settings or are you running some kind of undervolt in bios? The temps are looking real good!
@@louiienation8497 My BIOS defaults AC_LL to 0.74, which is below spec. I personally use 0.2 which is even further below spec. I’m fortunate that my chip doesn’t require Intel spec to run properly (when the current and power limits are in place). Temperature wise, it’s definitely only as low as it is because of the 253W power limit being locked in.
@@dainluke do you have a video or tutorial on how to undervolt? I’m running an on my 13900k but I’m pretty sure I’m not doing it right cause I dropped it -.075 but no offset was adjusted.
@@louiienation8497 I don’t, but you’re not the first to ask. I think I’ll go ahead and make one later today. It’s probably a good idea by this point. Regarding your offset issue - I know exactly what you mean. If I may ask, which board are you using? I just want to get an indication of what your AC_LL probably is.
@@dainluke I’m running a Z790-E Asus board with a i9-13900k and yes I think it would be great to do a tutorial on it. Preferably on a Asus board if possible. I’d really appreciate it so much.
@@louiienation8497 I can’t guarantee this will be fine, but for the time being, setting the SVID to Typical Scenario as opposed to Intel’s Fail Safe, in conjunction with disabling CEP, should give you great load Vcore whilst maintaining good performance. If you own an SP 100 or better, Typical Scenario should run pretty easily. I think your negative offset isn’t working because undervolt protection is enabled. Keep in mind that Typical Scenario is a pretty shallow AC_LL, so you may only have 0-0.025mV of potential offset alongside the Typical Scenario SVID.
Hello, good coverage. I should ask you, is it bad that my pc has been running 1.4-1.5V idle voltages for 4 months? I got this 14700k in June with an MSI z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI. Since the news I’ve just been installing some of the microcodes and left int default settings. I don’t think I’ve had my cpu crash but still worried these idle voltages are unhealthy and have degraded my cpu. Under stress test my cpu would go down to 1.2-1.3.
I have disabled Enhanced Turbo which hasn’t done anything noticeable to idle volts/temps.
Would appreciate any advice.
@@88prince I’d say so. I’d highly recommend trying to reduce MSI Lite Load’s mode as close to 1 as possible. Lite load controls AC_LL. You might need to disable CEP to prevent performance reduction.
@@dainluke Thanks for the advice, I’ve been looking at other comments you’ve made. I went down to Mode 5 and disabled IA/GT CEP which significantly lowered temps and voltages for both idle and stress in cinebench 2024 test (which even had a slightly higher score by 50pts). Idle is floating above 1.3V which i assume is safe and will no longer cause degradation. 1.4-1.5V is a difference. I just hope my cpu hasn’t degraded already.
Also I tried mode 1 but my PC just crashed upon running a stress test and idle volts still were close 1.3 V most of the time. I’d rather keep it at 5 as the difference seems small.
Also for anyone that may be interested, my PL1 and PL2 are on auto (253W) which I believe are intel default settings and the microcode is x012B of course.
@@88prince Mode 5 is an awesome result
👍 I enjoy your videos thanks
My 13700K skyrockets too 1.5 volts after the new bios xD HAHAHAAAAHA
@@ArkenShromAbuser 1.1 mOhm AC_LL will do this. Which board are you using?
@dainluke I have a Asus Prime Z790-A have loaded defult like they recommends only Apply XMP . I can se my IA AC/DC is 0.400 / 1.100 mOhm in hw monitor . And the Svid behavior is set to intel failsafe as deafult in bios wtf ?!
@@ArkenShromAbuser If you head to VRM settings, you’re likely going to see that the option to sync is enabled. You should be fine to head to BIOS and switch to Typical Scenario SVID. Just be sure to disable CEP, and it should run fine.
@@dainluke So i change the vrm too sync and change the svid too typical . And disable CEP ? 🙂
@@ArkenShromAbuser I would keep the Intel power limits and current limits in place, change SVID to Typical Scenario, disable CEP, and I’d probably disable the synchronise load line option. If you disable synchronise, and you leave LLC on auto, you’ll have the old style Asus settings. Those settings were never an issue for the i7. Just let me know what you see.
If I change the LLC, is the microcode change still active? I heard that changing any settings will inactivate the new microcode and thus the protection from voltage spikes.
@@Nudelkind91 I don’t think that’s how it works haha. But I would personally just lower AC_LL.
Wow! I love that you are in South Africa. I am still going bonkers working through my cpu issues with Wootware…. Not a big gamer so I am not sure how to determine if this is a Me problem or really degradation. Gigabyte is being slow on the third update. Only been out for premium boards so far. Hoping for a 0x12B fix.
@@tlalipheko5504 What sorts are problems have you been experiencing with your chip?
Windows keeps crashing mostly when I am using the Arc with the 13900kf. Not under load. It passes all the benchmarking and stress tests there are. But I will be there not moving the most or doing anything then I hear the fans going loud and boot screen appears. No BSOD. Just straight from idle windows to boot screen. I managed to peep at voltage before one of these crashes and 0.700s. Was fine for 2 years then started the bios updates when 0x129 as suggested by everyone and less than a month later…. Ignorance was such bliss.😊
Works a bit better with RTX A2000 and Radeon Pro wx7100, significantly less crashes. Radeon Rx 580 crashes a lot too but not as much as ARC A750
@@tlalipheko5504 Are you sure this isn’t an issue with the card itself perhaps? If you’re passing stress tests then it’s unlikely this is the CPU. It could be that voltage is dropping too far at idle? You could enable undervolt protection to prevent that.
@@dainlukeplease direct me to your undervolting video, if you have one. There are so many different videos out there about undervolting.
I just built a new pc with i7 14700k, after getting to windows I immediately downloaded latest microcode update, I have a msi z790 mag Tomahawk max wifi, I updated bios, however when running hwinfo64 I see that volts go up to 1.48 for brief moments, how can I deal with that? Can I help by undervolting?
@@Takeito_ Head to the section in “Advanced CPU” labelled MSI Lite Load. Select “Advanced” and check what the AC_LL is. You’re likely going to see 110 (1.1 mOhm). You’re going to want to either change the Lite Load Mode to reduce that value, or simply type in a less value of maybe 50 or 60 (as opposed to 110).
I just went into that and CPU lite load control was in "normal" when I changed it to advance it indeed showed me 110 but there are two load lines "AC" and "DC" should I put 60 on both and could you explain again what will that do in terms of volts/temps/performance? Shouldn't I try with a less aggressive decreased value and monitor?
I have 23 different modes in lite load, 16 is chosen by default (auto) maybe I can try and choose 14 or 15 and start monitoring to see how it does in terms of volts/temps?
@@Takeito_ I’m going to give you one response that’s more concise. Setting DC_LL without matching it to the corresponding motherboard VRM LLC setting (you need to know the VRM values off hand) will compromise accuracy of the package power sensor.
You don’t have to do manual AC_LL values, but I’d definitely drop down to Mode 10 at the bear minimum. I think you’re going to be fine as low as Mode 5. Mode 10 equates to 0.6 mOhm of AC_LL. 0.6 is still a substantial amount of voltage. Average quality chips operate totally fine in the 0.2-0.4 mOhm range, but I’d say go ahead and testing Mode 10 and reduce from there to see how low you can get your voltages.
Thanks! I will change to mode 10 and test with hWinfo software monitoring.
You still have vf offset option after updating right?
@@cemsengul16 I’ll have to check. I assume you’re also on a Z790I Lightning?
@@dainluke No. My motherboard is Z790 Dark Hero motherboard.
i'm not familiar with y-chruncher, is this microcode really fix the problem of 13/14 gen CPU?
@@yuan.pingchen3056 It’s a tough question to answer. I would like to believe it is, but the use case that these recent microcode patches have addressed are incredibly niche and hard to test. Buildzoid made some good videos demonstrating 14900K single core voltage behaviour. In that video you can clearly see his chip using far too much operating voltage when he would run single core R15.
@@dainluke I still have a msi z790 tomahawk max wifi motherboard, it's unused, no body want buy this one, so maybe I can only sell it as parts, for example: NVME heatsink , qualcomm wifi 7 card etc... what a sad story....
@@yuan.pingchen3056 I’m sure you can find a buyer. Just give it time.
only when your system is CSM
@@yuan.pingchen3056 I have the same MB, after the 0x12B microcode update, VID doesn't go over 1.440V.