I have the snap on wobble plus and while the idea of the 2 positions is clever and can be handy. It can certainly be an annoyance when you need that wobble function and it snaps into the fixed position. I purchased these due to a recommendation from a professor. I definitely don’t regret buying them, but if I had to order extensions again I would get regular extensions and then one or two plain wobble extensions with a locking collar. Maybe one or two wobble plus/fix style extensions just to have. Unless they could come out with a wobble plus socket that has a locking collar that could lock it in either of the two positions to prevent popping into the straight position.
Yep, I know exactly what you're talking about Chris. I have the 1/4 Z series only in 8.10.12. mm. The 3/8 Z in 8.10.12.14.17 (Japanese moto & auto sizes) & all my other socketry is 6 & 12 point Koken in full size ranges; deep & short. I put up with the issues of the wobble drive you describe, when using the Z sockets. Just something I learned to live with. I'm still very happy with them & I believe the Koken wobbles are best in the business. What makes them so for me: the knurling. The Snap-On wobbles I have, IMO are not as good as Koken, due to knurling.
My main issue with the wobble-fix extensions is what you pointed out about them inadvertently getting pushed into the locked straight position when you don’t want to. I prefer using wobble extensions that don’t have the locking straight feature, even though of course they will still lock straight if you push the socket back but they’ll come out of that very easily compared to the wobble fix
Heard mention you don't know how old your snap-on socket is just google Snap on date code chart and match the number or symbol to what's on the socket though I saw a zero on yours for 1980 or 1990
thanks for the info, wish i saw it before i bought, i asked on GJ and say they said the wobble fix should work with any brand socket. yes i like that knerling too also spit it out already, i'm watching 1.75x play speed about to jump to 2.0x play speed.
They make metric semi-deep nut grips in 1/4 and 3/8. The 3/8"s are 40mm long vs 26-29mm of the standard nut grip sockets. They are on pg 73 of the current online Koken catalogue. The 1/4"s are 32mm long and available in 8mm - 14mm. Also the standard length 1/2" nut grips are mostly 36mm long.
Another issue with the wobble-fix extensions is that they do not play nice with the short-profile Koken universal sockets because they get lifted off their fix position when the universal socket is put to an angle.
I've found the same issue with the 1/4" Koken bit holder socket. I have a few different brands of them now and so far the Gedore is my favorite for a 1/4".
I don't have first hand experiece with the Snap-on ones. For a similar price, the Ko-ken comes with a nice metal case, a bit holder, four 5/16" drive bits, and depending on the model a body that either has an elastomer grip or all metal body.
So is the issue of the socket not fitting on the nut a problem with all z-series sockets? I just ordered some 3/8 zeal sockets that are 20-21mm in length to use with the standard wobble extensions.
I don't have the tools in front of me, but I think the only sizes you'll see an issue with engagement in the "fixed" position would be, as I showed at 15:52 , for 10mm and under sizes.
Hello, here's an explanation with some examples: The first two numbers indicate the year and the last number/letter indicates the month. "088" = 2008 August "10k" = 2010 December "211" = 2021 January letter "J" = October letter "Q" = November
I have the koken wobble fix and zeal sockets and quite like them but my only issue is how much wear the sockets have on the drive end. we have used their 3/4" and 1" drive stuff at work for many years, there chrome extensions and sockets are always used on impact guns and hold up great.
With the exception of the one that sees little use, the male square drive on all of my wobble-fix extensions have chrome plating that has chipped away. Even other brands of wobble extensions like Nepros, FPC, Vessel, Toptul, Sunex (impact) show wear/plastic deformation on the square. So they seem to be all prone to it. As for the hex end of sockets showing wear, I have seen that as well, but nothing alarming. With sockets that are machined without a rounded chamfer on the leading edges, they seem to have the tendency of getting plastic deformation on the corners/edges.
Great explanation! What's the difference between zeal extensions and regular extensions (non-wobble) apart from knurling? Are they more slender or have less slop? Otherwise I see no point in them producing one more set of extensions.
Right, the knurling. Another noticeable difference with the Z-series is the unique machining done for the ball detent (for less play). Compared to the standard line, there aren't many options when it comes to extension lengths.
do you have any koken bit ratchets? You should highlight those in a video, if so. I wasn't able to find any discussion about them online anywhere. I just ordered the smaller 1/4" one since it's only $35 at palmac, it will be my first koken ratchet. I'm hoping it has the same low backdrag as their other ratchets
No I do not have any. I've considered it in the past, but I've been happy with the Taiwan made high-toothcount bit ratchets. Yeah, backdrag should be very light.
Would you recommend the zeal extensions with the zeal sockets? Or do the standard ones work great with the zeal sockets too? I really like the knurling on the standard extensions
Z-series works best as a system, but if you prefer the knurled extensions from the standard line, I'd go with that. It'll still work fine. As was pointed out in the video, there's just some limitations to keep in mind if you get wobble-fix type extensions.
Hello Chris Cas I just found your channel from CP the Tool Addict. And I subscribed. I recently found out about the Koken Nut Grip Sockets. I am a Aircraft Mechanic most of my hardware is twelve points and SAE/Standard. I 've been researching to see if I buy Koken tools to meet my needs. But listening to the video today makes me wonder if this would work. A lot of my hardware starts off at the 1/4" to 9/16" range. Up to till now I 've used tape, paper and grease to hold everything together. Then as you may already know. Then I have to get everything out, any pieces of tape and paper, and grease has to be cleaned up. I've given you a book to digest hopefully it's not too much. Explaining the why would take even more time and space. Again thank you
Hi George. I've heard that aviation industry is very strict about FOD. I suppose paper, tape, grease left behind on aircraft fasteners is against industry practice? As for Ko-ken's Nut-Grip: they do not offer any in 12pt hex sockets (only 6pt hex). Ko-ken has recently re-released SAE Nut-grip sockets in 1/4" and 3/8" drive sizes. 1/4" drive is from 1/4" to 1/2" in the common sizes. 3/8" drive runs from 1/4" to 3/4" in the common sizes. Are magnetic sockets not an option because there's a lot of fasteners that are non-ferrous?
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Hello again Chris You are correct on all points. When I saw the Koken Nut Grip Sockets use on UA-cam. I thought, I found a game changer. In this world of Tool copying. I was hoping to learn that someone is producing like items?
@@georgeferlazzo7936 Ko-ken's patent has expired so there's been similar products in the market (again, all 6pt hex sockets and only metric). You can find them from TONE (Japanese), and WERA (German).
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Hello again Chris Thank you. I'll give them a look. According to Mr. Subaru, there a lot interest from the Tikok Aviation community. As there should be. Lives and jobs are at stake. Again thank you
@@georgeferlazzo7936 yes, Robert (Mr. Subarau) has been working hard on different social media platforms to spread the awareness on the various Japanese and German tool brands. If there's enough voice out there in the aviation community for SAE Nut-grip sockets in various sizes/configurations, Ko-ken (USA) might be able to fulfill those desires.
Just curious, are your 1/4 Koken Z-series universal joints stiffer than the 3/8? My 1/4 has a much stiffer spring than my 3/8. The 1/4 kind of binds up in use. And my 3/8 has such a soft spring it can hardly support the weight of a shallow 14mm socket. I bought these partly to eliminate the the floppy socket issue, but my 3/8 is almost at that point brand new.
I don't think I've experienced any binding. That's happening with you just rotating the balljoint with your fingers or during actual use, under torsional load? My two 3/8 ones can hold a shallow 19mm nut-grip socket at an angle, and maintain the angle while rotating the socket horizontally. The 1/2 has the stiffest spring of all.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado The 1/4 binds and does not rotate smooth by hand, it's very noticable. In actual use it seems to work ok. Just thought it was strange that the 1/4 has a much stiffer spring. The 1/4 can easily hold a deep 14mm set at an anlge, while the 3/8 struggles to hold an angle with a 14mm shallow socket. I thought about trying to adjust the spring, but removing the retaining clip that holds the joint together seems almost impossible.
something i've noticed but it's really nothing crazy, is the zeal spinners , i think the way the under cut is made, when it's seated on my ratchet , it keeps the quick release button almost completely pressed in, it holds on fine but the button is almost flat to the ratchet head instead of petruding like it would , it does this on my Nepros and my cheaper ratchet
For the purpose of keeping the tool locked in, it hasn't dissapointed. One thing I've noticed is that the spring rate is different between the two release collars. One is perfect, while the other I find takes a bit too much effort. I see no reason why Snap-on would have a need to do this, so I take it as another example of a lack of consistency from them. I haven't used it a whole lot either, but looking at it now, I'm a bit surprised that the phospate finish at the corners of the hex end (the contact points) has already started to wear off, exposing the shiny bare steel. I don't even use them on an impact driver; only drill/driver use.
There's several sources to choose from: Amazon, eBay, look through the list of distributors provided by Ko-ken USA, the GermanToolTruck, Frankstools, etc.
Is this Kip from napoleon dynamite? 😆. You know there exsist a tool that puts those two together right? It's called a 1/4 universal socket. Matco makes thee best one's 👌 if you got the money. There like $ 40 a socket. Another compromise would be tekton 1/4 low profile sockets with are just as good as the matco ones. My set up is using a looking extension with a 1/4 u joint socket. Keep it simple man, your over thinking in.
😄 of course I know about swivel sockets. I think you've missed an important point about the Ko-ken balljoint style universals. They don't get floppy and nor do they bind up like the conventional universal joints...such as those over-priced Matco ones...that they just import from Taiwan.
Eeh, too much hassle to be finding and putting an extra adapter on the extension. Im a mechanic so I use these tools day in day out. I have the tekton ones but have used the matco ones as well. Never had an issue with mine getting floppy, but if and when they do you can put red lock tight and that'll make it lighten up. I've also heard of people using epoxy, solder ect. Plus the angle I can get with the u joint socket are impressive almost at 90°. Your method work well but if you need more angle, nothing beat a u joint socket.
@@Just0ke on those rare occasions when I need more angle, I do have some chrome swivel sockets. Balljoint style universals are just so much easier to work with. But, whatever works best for you is fine 👍
I watched this at 1.5 speed and it was still too long, this whole video is dragged out way too long and is about 50% "uhhhhh", could easily have delivered all of this information in about 5 minutes, consider this constructive criticism, most people probably don't get past the 5 minute mark because it constantly seems like you are about to get to the point but dont actually do so till 6+ minutes in and the whole time it feels like you are dragging your heels on actually finishing the point you're makiny
Sweet!
I have the snap on wobble plus and while the idea of the 2 positions is clever and can be handy. It can certainly be an annoyance when you need that wobble function and it snaps into the fixed position.
I purchased these due to a recommendation from a professor. I definitely don’t regret buying them, but if I had to order extensions again I would get regular extensions and then one or two plain wobble extensions with a locking collar. Maybe one or two wobble plus/fix style extensions just to have.
Unless they could come out with a wobble plus socket that has a locking collar that could lock it in either of the two positions to prevent popping into the straight position.
18:35 Could you please do a video sharing your experience with Koken flat and surface drive sockets.
Yep, I know exactly what you're talking about Chris. I have the 1/4 Z series only in 8.10.12. mm. The 3/8 Z in 8.10.12.14.17 (Japanese moto & auto sizes) & all my other socketry is 6 & 12 point Koken in full size ranges; deep & short. I put up with the issues of the wobble drive you describe, when using the Z sockets. Just something I learned to live with. I'm still very happy with them & I believe the Koken wobbles are best in the business. What makes them so for me: the knurling. The Snap-On wobbles I have, IMO are not as good as Koken, due to knurling.
Cool, thanks for the comment!
My main issue with the wobble-fix extensions is what you pointed out about them inadvertently getting pushed into the locked straight position when you don’t want to. I prefer using wobble extensions that don’t have the locking straight feature, even though of course they will still lock straight if you push the socket back but they’ll come out of that very easily compared to the wobble fix
This answers so many questions that I had. Thank you so much.
It’s always a good video when there is Koken or Nepros 😬👌 Gotta love Japanese attention to detail
🤙🤙
Cool. Just ordered my first Ko-ken tool: 3/8 long spinner handle with wobble feature.
Heard mention you don't know how old your snap-on socket is just google Snap on date code chart and match the number or symbol to what's on the socket though I saw a zero on yours for 1980 or 1990
thanks for the info, wish i saw it before i bought, i asked on GJ and say they said the wobble fix should work with any brand socket. yes i like that knerling too also spit it out already, i'm watching 1.75x play speed about to jump to 2.0x play speed.
I've always preferred separate wobble/fixed extensions although there are situations where it's nice to have the option for both
Agreed. I prefer a dedicated fixed/wobble extension as well. For a minimalist portable toolkit, a wobble-fix would be a good choice.
They make metric semi-deep nut grips in 1/4 and 3/8. The 3/8"s are 40mm long vs 26-29mm of the standard nut grip sockets. They are on pg 73 of the current online Koken catalogue. The 1/4"s are 32mm long and available in 8mm - 14mm. Also the standard length 1/2" nut grips are mostly 36mm long.
I have a 10mm semi-deep in 1/4 sq but picky me wants the older generation specs 😁
Great info to know, I was not aware of this. Thanks.
Another issue with the wobble-fix extensions is that they do not play nice with the short-profile Koken universal sockets because they get lifted off their fix position when the universal socket is put to an angle.
GREAT VIDEO,, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME !!!!!!!!!
I've found the same issue with the 1/4" Koken bit holder socket. I have a few different brands of them now and so far the Gedore is my favorite for a 1/4".
Thanks for chiming in 👍
Yes, I like the Gedore 620 as well.
Shorter length sockets fit more compact spaces and or creates a need for semi-deep sockets.
yes, it does create a need for semi-deeps....in my case, I want semi semi-deep Nut-grips. 😄
Can i get the part code for those u joint and locking extensions please? @11:57
The 1/4 Sq universal is 2771Z
The 1/4 hex -> 1/4sq locking extensions are Snap-on: TMLPA4 (4" long) and TMLPA6 (6" long)
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Thank I appreciate it!
Any idea if the zeal extensions fit tighter on zeal sockets than regular koken extensions?
I don't have any regular Ko-ken extensions to compare with. For best fitment, its best to stick with all Zeal items.
Umm, oh, ah, um, um, um…….. but still a good video
Sir I like that tools but very expensive. Hopefully I get that tools someday.
Thank you for making the effort to make these videos. Do you have an opinion on the Koken Attack driver vs the Snap on pit120/150?
I don't have first hand experiece with the Snap-on ones. For a similar price, the Ko-ken comes with a nice metal case, a bit holder, four 5/16" drive bits, and depending on the model a body that either has an elastomer grip or all metal body.
So is the issue of the socket not fitting on the nut a problem with all z-series sockets? I just ordered some 3/8 zeal sockets that are 20-21mm in length to use with the standard wobble extensions.
I don't have the tools in front of me, but I think the only sizes you'll see an issue with engagement in the "fixed" position would be, as I showed at 15:52 , for 10mm and under sizes.
Hello sir
How can we know what year the tools were manufactured ? Can you give some examples?
Thank sir
Hello, here's an explanation with some examples:
The first two numbers indicate the year and the last number/letter indicates the month.
"088" = 2008 August
"10k" = 2010 December
"211" = 2021 January
letter "J" = October
letter "Q" = November
Happy New Year - 2022
Happy New Year--
I have the koken wobble fix and zeal sockets and quite like them but my only issue is how much wear the sockets have on the drive end.
we have used their 3/4" and 1" drive stuff at work for many years, there chrome extensions and sockets are always used on impact guns and hold up great.
With the exception of the one that sees little use, the male square drive on all of my wobble-fix extensions have chrome plating that has chipped away. Even other brands of wobble extensions like Nepros, FPC, Vessel, Toptul, Sunex (impact) show wear/plastic deformation on the square. So they seem to be all prone to it.
As for the hex end of sockets showing wear, I have seen that as well, but nothing alarming. With sockets that are machined without a rounded chamfer on the leading edges, they seem to have the tendency of getting plastic deformation on the corners/edges.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado You are correct. And it doesn’t affect their function in any way. Happens with my snap on stuff as well
I like my koken tools but love my SEK wobble extensions.
Those do look pretty nice 👍
Thanks for the info.
Great explanation! What's the difference between zeal extensions and regular extensions (non-wobble) apart from knurling? Are they more slender or have less slop? Otherwise I see no point in them producing one more set of extensions.
Right, the knurling. Another noticeable difference with the Z-series is the unique machining done for the ball detent (for less play). Compared to the standard line, there aren't many options when it comes to extension lengths.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Thanks!👍
do you have any koken bit ratchets? You should highlight those in a video, if so. I wasn't able to find any discussion about them online anywhere. I just ordered the smaller 1/4" one since it's only $35 at palmac, it will be my first koken ratchet. I'm hoping it has the same low backdrag as their other ratchets
No I do not have any. I've considered it in the past, but I've been happy with the Taiwan made high-toothcount bit ratchets.
Yeah, backdrag should be very light.
Would you recommend the zeal extensions with the zeal sockets? Or do the standard ones work great with the zeal sockets too? I really like the knurling on the standard extensions
Z-series works best as a system, but if you prefer the knurled extensions from the standard line, I'd go with that. It'll still work fine. As was pointed out in the video, there's just some limitations to keep in mind if you get wobble-fix type extensions.
I wonder if that 1/4” bit holder was their first shot of USA market bits.
The same item is still offered today, with no changes to its design.
Happy New Year sir :)
Hello Chris Cas
I just found your channel from CP the Tool Addict. And I subscribed. I recently found out about the Koken Nut Grip Sockets. I am a Aircraft Mechanic most of my hardware is twelve points and SAE/Standard. I 've been researching to see if I buy Koken tools to meet my needs. But listening to the video today makes me wonder if this would work. A lot of my hardware starts off at the 1/4" to 9/16" range. Up to till now I 've used tape, paper and grease to hold everything together. Then as you may already know. Then I have to get everything out, any pieces of tape and paper, and grease has to be cleaned up. I've given you a book to digest hopefully it's not too much. Explaining the why would take even more time and space. Again thank you
Hi George. I've heard that aviation industry is very strict about FOD. I suppose paper, tape, grease left behind on aircraft fasteners is against industry practice?
As for Ko-ken's Nut-Grip: they do not offer any in 12pt hex sockets (only 6pt hex). Ko-ken has recently re-released SAE Nut-grip sockets in 1/4" and 3/8" drive sizes.
1/4" drive is from 1/4" to 1/2" in the common sizes.
3/8" drive runs from 1/4" to 3/4" in the common sizes.
Are magnetic sockets not an option because there's a lot of fasteners that are non-ferrous?
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado
Hello again Chris
You are correct on all points. When I saw the Koken Nut Grip Sockets use on UA-cam. I thought, I found a game changer. In this world of Tool copying. I was hoping to learn that someone is producing like items?
@@georgeferlazzo7936 Ko-ken's patent has expired so there's been similar products in the market (again, all 6pt hex sockets and only metric). You can find them from TONE (Japanese), and WERA (German).
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Hello again Chris
Thank you. I'll give them a look. According to Mr. Subaru, there a lot interest from the Tikok Aviation community. As there should be. Lives and jobs are at stake. Again thank you
@@georgeferlazzo7936 yes, Robert (Mr. Subarau) has been working hard on different social media platforms to spread the awareness on the various Japanese and German tool brands.
If there's enough voice out there in the aviation community for SAE Nut-grip sockets in various sizes/configurations, Ko-ken (USA) might be able to fulfill those desires.
Just curious, are your 1/4 Koken Z-series universal joints stiffer than the 3/8? My 1/4 has a much stiffer spring than my 3/8. The 1/4 kind of binds up in use. And my 3/8 has such a soft spring it can hardly support the weight of a shallow 14mm socket. I bought these partly to eliminate the the floppy socket issue, but my 3/8 is almost at that point brand new.
I don't think I've experienced any binding. That's happening with you just rotating the balljoint with your fingers or during actual use, under torsional load?
My two 3/8 ones can hold a shallow 19mm nut-grip socket at an angle, and maintain the angle while rotating the socket horizontally.
The 1/2 has the stiffest spring of all.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado The 1/4 binds and does not rotate smooth by hand, it's very noticable. In actual use it seems to work ok. Just thought it was strange that the 1/4 has a much stiffer spring. The 1/4 can easily hold a deep 14mm set at an anlge, while the 3/8 struggles to hold an angle with a 14mm shallow socket. I thought about trying to adjust the spring, but removing the retaining clip that holds the joint together seems almost impossible.
@@brad3741 damn, sorry to hear your experience with the 3/8. I think the 1/4 seems fine to me, if it works without issue during actual use.
something i've noticed but it's really nothing crazy, is the zeal spinners , i think the way the under cut is made, when it's seated on my ratchet , it keeps the quick release button almost completely pressed in, it holds on fine but the button is almost flat to the ratchet head instead of petruding like it would , it does this on my Nepros and my cheaper ratchet
You're right, I've noticed that too with the Nepros ratchet. It's most likely because of that unique under cut / ramp profile of the Z-series.
The wobble extension/socket was invented by Koken not SnapOn
Right, I think I said that ... or maybe you're emphasizing that point?
So when I saw the koken 10mm socket I noticed the socket slightly mushroomed out on the hex end.
Can happen to hand and impact sockets.
Thanks for the heads up. I just got the 3/8 wobble fix will not get the 1/4 set.
When's the toolbox tour?
The short sockets are designed for the use with the wobble socket... Not the locking extension...
Part number for those lock on extensions?
Those are from Snap-on: TMLPA4 (4" long) and TMLPA6 (6" long)
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado how do you like them? Any issues with them?
For the purpose of keeping the tool locked in, it hasn't dissapointed. One thing I've noticed is that the spring rate is different between the two release collars. One is perfect, while the other I find takes a bit too much effort. I see no reason why Snap-on would have a need to do this, so I take it as another example of a lack of consistency from them. I haven't used it a whole lot either, but looking at it now, I'm a bit surprised that the phospate finish at the corners of the hex end (the contact points) has already started to wear off, exposing the shiny bare steel. I don't even use them on an impact driver; only drill/driver use.
Where you buy them from ?
There's several sources to choose from:
Amazon, eBay, look through the list of distributors provided by Ko-ken USA, the GermanToolTruck, Frankstools, etc.
Great information. You may want to work on making your delivery crisper - perhaps a script would help you gather your thoughts. Best of luck!
Good info but dang get on with it bud haha
spit it out guy! geez
Is this Kip from napoleon dynamite? 😆. You know there exsist a tool that puts those two together right? It's called a 1/4 universal socket. Matco makes thee best one's 👌 if you got the money. There like $ 40 a socket. Another compromise would be tekton 1/4 low profile sockets with are just as good as the matco ones. My set up is using a looking extension with a 1/4 u joint socket. Keep it simple man, your over thinking in.
😄 of course I know about swivel sockets. I think you've missed an important point about the Ko-ken balljoint style universals. They don't get floppy and nor do they bind up like the conventional universal joints...such as those over-priced Matco ones...that they just import from Taiwan.
Eeh, too much hassle to be finding and putting an extra adapter on the extension. Im a mechanic so I use these tools day in day out. I have the tekton ones but have used the matco ones as well. Never had an issue with mine getting floppy, but if and when they do you can put red lock tight and that'll make it lighten up. I've also heard of people using epoxy, solder ect. Plus the angle I can get with the u joint socket are impressive almost at 90°. Your method work well but if you need more angle, nothing beat a u joint socket.
@@Just0ke on those rare occasions when I need more angle, I do have some chrome swivel sockets. Balljoint style universals are just so much easier to work with. But, whatever works best for you is fine 👍
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado right on, great video 👍
Solo puede haber un Chris Cas y yo empecé primero en UA-cam.
Dude you need to start editing your videos
For what purpose?
But first off, uhhh
I watched this at 1.5 speed and it was still too long, this whole video is dragged out way too long and is about 50% "uhhhhh", could easily have delivered all of this information in about 5 minutes, consider this constructive criticism, most people probably don't get past the 5 minute mark because it constantly seems like you are about to get to the point but dont actually do so till 6+ minutes in and the whole time it feels like you are dragging your heels on actually finishing the point you're makiny
😂 exaggerating a little? Hey, you're more than welcome to do a video yourself. Let me know when you do.
Stop saying uh/um sounds unprofessional
This was so painful to watch, this could have been cut down to 10 minutes tops, that’s with adding dad jokes and veering off topic a bit.
Thanks for stopping by ... plenty of other channels out there to watch.