I remember a cool explanation of the Aliens not having computer security that I read somewhere: since they're a hive mind, the idea that one of their own could deliberately try to screw some of them over, like by hacking their computers, just doesn't occur to them when they're designing their systems. Also would explain why they don't have any kind of security gate on the mothership so Letterman and Hiller just fly right in and don't get scanned or anything.
@@paulheap1982 Furthermore the aliens were using human satellites to communicate with one another across the planet, meaning that they must have purposefully made their OSes compatible with human technology to do it, in the process giving Dave an opening to exploit with his computer virus. He even says so "just as they used our satellites against us we'll use their signal against them."
Actually what's funny is that even if they had computer security the attack still would have worked. David's attack would have been a day zero attack, which antivirus would not have helped against. Resitriction of privilage may have gotten them however they were linked to the mothership so...
Let us note that given the vast majority of Hollywood being Democrats with an agenda of spreading a global AIDS epidemic by covering up unsafe sex with abortions, drug overdoses, identity group class warfare, and every other form of insanely suicidal self-destructive behavior in order to downsize the population of the world to something small enough for media monopolies to micromanage by Orwellian thought control, it's sort of like expecting some People's Temple mass suicide cult to create Frank Capra's It's a Wonderful Life.
Wow, Bob; you've blown my mind. The idea of mixed race families and religious tolerance being not only widely accepted yet not commented on along with the unification of humanity through perseverance makes ID the most Roddenberry inspired non-Trek movie ever made. Well done.
Avengers 4: How about some cake? Yes please, people ask me why I'm so into family/kids films despite being in my mid-20's, this is why. I encounter depressing stuff every time I turn on the news, or see a newspaper, sometimes it's nice to have a film say 'yeah, shit can get really bad, but there's good stuff too'.
TheWolvesDen True facts, it's natural/enjoyable to feel melancholy or sad but that's ALL a large chunk of adult media seems to acknowledge and the rest has this real condescending tone whenever it does have a bit of fun. Got to acknowledge that we're not serious, gods forbid people have genuine fun and not act like a bunch of snarky twats.
Its weird in most of my adult intake its probably more jaded but video game intake is the entire joy/fun to balance it out. One thing I appreciate with Movie Bob is his desire to challenge that and makes me reconsider the value of more light hearted films
docterfantazmo I think the last crowd pleaser that just asked us to smile and look at awesome stuff that wasn't a Marvel, Pixar, or Disney movie was Pacific Rim.
Actually, ironically, he says he doesn't nitpick on stupid shit, because he feels to him, it isn't stupid shit. Like others. To me, I see him as nitpicking stupid shit on the social justice themes very often.
You sir, have made me rethink this movie and how much it has impacted my generation. Thank you. When I first heard of Independence Day: Resurgence I just gave it eye-rolls, but now I am genuinely excited or it.
I totally agree. My big concern, however, is how he feels about Emmerich's other films and will he still be thinking the same things about how genius he is.
Thank you for this! ID4 was one of the most exciting films I had ever seen as a pre-teen back in '96. The music, effects, dialogue - it was all so exciting. But years later, I believe it still thrills not because of simple nostalgia, but because of, well, basically all the points you've raised. Great job!
As a small science communicator, I love the point that big-budget flashy movies like ID4 can help humanity grow. As a storyteller myself, that makes total sense. I know this is from 2015, but you earned a sub and a bell ring. :) Loved your Superman 78 breakdown too.
and with that, I have finished your 'really that good' series so far and honestly, you have genuinely inspired me sir. I'm currently in university studying English literature and I now feel compelled to explore film, so i'm going to add an extra module to my course because you have made it simply fascinating to me, more than any other film analyst I know, thank you
The last 10 minutes talking about feel good, positive movies, how they've been a way of the past, seen really in only the Marvel movies lately - was beautiful and I couldn't agree more.
Damn dude... not only did you say everything that I thought and saw in the film, but you even opened my eyes to to interesting subjects and hidden messages. I 100% agree with everything. I saw this movie with some Naval buddies of mine in Hawaii. and a lot of military went to see it on opening day.... I was never so proud to be serving than when I heard that speech. Grown men cried after that, that's how good it was. Bravo to you.
R3GARnator Both of them are correct.. ID is cheesy popcorn movie what isn't good overall in any way, but also it isn't downright bad as it work as exactly what it is.. a popcorn movie! NC target nostalgia and so it is obvious that he point out all flows what he find. Bob ask question about what good is in something, and he point out what worked. And so any of those opinions aren't wrong, just different point of view.
usually i use youtube vids like white noise in the background while playing games or being out and about, but for these "Really that Good" segments from the GREAT senor MovieBob, i sit and watch the whole thing on through, engaging kickass and i take much from it, great work man :)
I've always liked ID4, but this has really helped me realize why I've always liked it. Also, it's really impressive that for huge 30-40 min videos Bob is able to keep my impatient arse on the seat the whole time, he's good at staying engaging.
Bro, same! This movie literally brings to life all the little aspects I appreciated about it. Regardless of what they say, the attention to detail in these small things is what makes it my favorite film of all time
I wish you would do a lot more movie reviews of old and new movies, because you are REALLY THAT GOOD. Love the way you break down a movie to its basic form and explain it.
Best memory of this movie? My mate turning to me during the destruction of the Whitehouse and saying: "Do you know how they did that? They used a model"... And I was thinking they just blew up real buildings and had to rebuild them in movies
This is the sort of thing that makes me glad to be a subscriber. This carries the intelligence of film analysis that I have grown to both crave and respect from your work. I'm grateful for how much time and effort you've dedicated to your "really that good" series. Another excellent video to add to the collection!
After watching Nostalgia Critic pretty much pans this movie it's really nice to see Moviebob talk about it from a different perspective. Almost make me want to see them have an actual discussion on this movie with their respective opinion.
how is this under 1000 views??? Bob has intelligent criticism over the so called dumb movies, and this one is great. Much better than anything from cinema sins or other movie channel on youtube
Great job Movie Bob I really enjoyed watching this video and I liked the format. It's great seeing a longer video as it hits the movie fix better though I did feel you could split the video into a second at 14:18 for a 'next time we'll talk about theme'. Put it out 2 days later, but it's kinda cool to hear you talk for 30 minutes with so much to say and the rate you manage. Nice work.
@moviebob Would ID4's timing at that brief window when CGI allowed for realistic special-effects portraying things that miniature models couldn't, but was still not mature enough to completely replace the use of miniature models in VFX, thus forcing the VFX department to use the CGI effects sparingly, also have something to do with how much love the film gets?
Actually in the DVD commentaries, it's confirmed Russell married Miguel's mom and adopted Miguel while the two younger siblings are the kids of Russell and Miguel's mom who died offscreen before the film.
You are so wrong about X-Files. When people like Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad), Howard Gordon (Homeland), Bryan Fuller (Hannibal), JJ Abrams (Lost, upcoming Star Wars), David Chase (The Sopranos), etc. all cite the show as one of the most influential tv shows of all time, it couldn't possibly be that bad. That golden age of television we have right now? It owes quite a bit to The X-Files.
Dear Moviebob, I am very grateful and appreciative how your videos show me a perspective I've never before considered as well as giving me an academic crash course in Film Literacy. Merci mille fois!
Katie Baily X Files never aged as well. Trust me, I loved the show in its day, but now it's just not the same. Also the movies, especially the second one, were just not good.
The X-files aged so bad, it people started to realized how bad it was, before it's original run was over. To bad that at that moment they already committed to a movie which became synopsis of the series.
The X-files movie was in no way "pissing" on Independence day. The poster was at Molder's eye level. Unless the poster was 6ft tall, or Molder was arching his piss stream up, there is no way a drop got on that poster. I saw both films in the theater, everyone chuckled during that scene. Not because it was a dig, but because it was a meta reference to as alien invasion film, in an alien invasion film, and at the time Independence day was the most hyped movie ever, you literally couldn't take a piss in and alley without seeing an ID4 poster. Everybody got the joke but Movie Bob.
I didn't know I wanted these vids until I got them. Explaining visual narrative devices, various influences, and message of the screenplay vs execution, social impact both then and now. So many movies I'd like to see covered, like why Spirited Away was a breakthrough, why Anchorman was so often quoted for years, and I'd love to revisit The Italian Job, Silence of the Lambs, Ben Hur, The Great Race, Charlie and the Chocolate factory, Singing in the Rain
WHOA WHOA WHOA What's with all the X-FIles bashing? Are you serious? Yeah, the mythology doesn't work, but it has LOADS of classic episodes of television that still totally hold up. What are you talking about, Bob?
j Hughes I'd love an example. Honestly, I can't remember a single episode from that show, and I watched a fair chunk of it during it's run...mostly because the Simpsons was on right after :/
"Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose" The one that one an Emmy for Outstanding Writing for a Drama series? Just for one? I mean, I could give you a top ten if you like. The X-Files is a stone classic.
Oh, no problem. In no particular order: Jose Chung's From Outer Space Pusher Home (Easily the most terrifying episode, do not watch in the dark) Drive (Written by Breaking Bad creator Vince Gilligan, and starring Brian Cranston) Humbug Bad Blood The Host Small Potatoes Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose Monday
j Hughes Oh man Jose Chung's was THE BEST. Granted, not necessarily indicative of the rest of the show but hilariousy self-aware and smart at the same time! I'd also say the character of Tooms is a solid example of memorable original lore the show created.
I've enjoyed these series so far, but I'm concerned it's just going to be an echo chamber series where you just take broadly liked movies and confirm that they're good. I really hope you have an episode soon where you take a movie and say "Is it really that good? No. Here's why."
Neil Brown That would be stupid. The whole point of "Really That Good" is to examine well-beloved films to find out WHY they are so well-liked on a technical and thematic level. It is a show about positivity and validation in a landscape that seems to be increasingly about negativity and mocking, which is what makes it kind of unique. You want to watch more shows about tearing people's enjoyment down? Good for you, there are a 1000 shows like that around the internet. You are not getting this one though.
I didn't say I don't want Moviebob to not talk about how movies are awesome. So far he's been right that these movies are all great! But it feels like just another circlejerk where everyone just nods their heads and says "yup, that classic is a classic." Some variety would make it much more interesting.
Neil Brown But that is still missing the goddamn point. Take out the focus on positivity and validation of beloved films and RTG is just another review show, no different from any other on the internet. The variety comes from the kind of films he looks at and how they do different things well. Simply alternating between "this is good" and "this is bad" is not any meaningful variety. If focusing on positive stuff is circle jerking to you, then maybe that is what we actually need.
If Moviebob's intent is to have a show where, as you put it, the entire point is "the focus on positivity and validation of beloved films" then his show is pointless besides fan pandering. Some critical analysis from him would be spectacular, and it's definitely something he's done in the past. He's willing to call out movies for not being as great as it could be (remember how awestruck he was at Man of Steel at first), it feels disappointing that he wouldn't continue to do that. You of course can have your opinion on what Moviebob should do in his videos, I just disagree with them.
Neil Brown So you don't think that Bob has been doing any "critical analysis" in his 30+min videos looking at beloved films from multiple angles and perspectives? Solid logic there. You are living proof of why this show needs to exist. "Criticism" is not synonymous with "negativity", and critically analyzing WHY a film has moved so many rather than asking if it SHOULD move that many is not "fan pandering".
I love this movie. It's so much fun even without all that subtext. I didn't realize that it was Will Smith's first real run at an action role, but he already had that charisma I guess.
You're right. This DID get me thinking. I've been itching to create a narrative of this type with a major emphasis on unity overcoming impossible odds. And that subtle camera trick that isolates characters in negative scenes and uses group shots for positive scenes is something I never noticed. I'll have to keep it in mind!
You sure do seem to be mad at the X-Files movie for... a really dumb forgettable joke that nobody cared about. Like, it's kinda hard to keep watching through that part because of how awkwardly angry you come across over such a small, petty thing in a movie nobody cares about or even likely knows exists. I mean, other than those who are watching during the 2 minute pause where you stop reviewing one movie to take a shit on a more obscure, forgotten one.
Goatmon Forced? *Definitely.* Overly long? Sure! Displaying frustration and/or disappointment? Certainly. Angry, though? Have you *ever* been *actually* angry? Because it does not sound like that at all. Use your words... you are typing on a combination dictionary/thesaurus, after all.
Peter S "haHaHa haHaHaHa, That is so fucking funny!" and then he proceeds to rant for the next 90 seconds. That is classic "I'm so angry, I'm going to good-naturedly SCREAM sarcasm at the mic in a way that barely hides my seething frustration"
sloucho84 I saw what you said. I saw the video. I say, for the last time, if you think that is anger you need to get outside and have some real emotions. That ain't it.
I can tell how much effort goes into each one of these videos. I didn't think you could top the one you did on Avengers, but this was just as interesting, if not more so. Big thumbs up from me :D
Vivica A. Fox's character being a stripper seems less to be a subversion of a trope than a blatant excuse to put a woman in a sexy outfit in the movie.
cimmeriusIII Actually, that is one of the only genuinely good subversions in this movie. Okay, most of the characters also, but thematically, the whole globalism / unity thing just isn't really there. The speech itself is basically "America is so fucking awesome that we will save the world, and from now on, everyone else will celebrate our holiday also to honor us".
Except she’s only in her dancer outfit for one scene, and establishing shot showing that she’s dancing, but no one is paying attention to her because of the invasion news. For the rest of the movie she’s fully clothed, usually in layers. The scene in her lingerie lasts less than 30 seconds, and it centers her face, not focusing on body parts like a lot of male gazey scenes.
Good words dude. I've always considered it to be one the greatest B movies. Nice to know I wasnt alone. You're videos are humerous and thoughtful. Thanks.
He started the series explaining there's enough critical and sometimes snobbish deconstruction going on everywhere in pop-culture, and he wants this show to focus on when things go right and why.
Wow, I must say Bob you've convinced me to look at this movie through a new lens. Never thought about it through a global, humanist perspective, great analysis.
I fail to see the problem with the poster scene in the X-Files movie, to be honest. I figured the movies were simply making ironic shoutouts to each other, as there is a scene in Independence Day where someone is on the phone, receiving a report about the alien activity, and in disbelief says something sarcastic like "yeah sure, aliens; look I've seen the X-Files too." These things happen in movies. In the first Nightmare on Elm Street, Nancy is watching Evil Dead on her TV. In Evil Dead 2, Freddy's glove can be seen in Ash's tool shed. A girl watches Critters in Nightmare 3, and in Critters 2 one of the alien bounty hunters almost morphs into Freddy while looking at a Nightmare 2 poster. It's not like Mulder was actually peeing ON the poster. I think you read too much into that particular moment.
Hey Bob, lay off the X-Files. it was really good at...well, it had amazing...but it's story was so...Fine, Gillian Anderson was really hot and it gave us a really great episode of The Simpsons
Maybe I'm wrong, I was a kid in the 90's, but wasn't the X-Files' saving grace that it was sci-fi ("geek shit") presented with the trappings of mystery drama? So it was that geek shit, but didn't feel like it?
@@vidmuncher X-Files has some of the best stand-alone episodes. The mythology arcs didn't work in the end, but the stand-alone episodes absolutely hold up.
I am sitting here with a huge grin on my face. You called it precisely sir. There are only two movies that are capable of doing that to me: Independence Day and Cloud Atlas.
As a non American I always thought it was borderline offensive and also very expected that only U.S. born citizens in movies were allowed to be the heroes and this movie was the poster child of that way of thinking.
Non-american here. I found the theme of "unity" to be undermined by the unspoken subtext of "...with America in charge, as the morally correct leader". To me (and everyone I know) the speech was insanely cringey, and revealed rather too much about how Americans see themselves. In fact, that uncomfortable feeling was my main take away from the movie. Looking at the comments, I think I'm not alone in that.
I completely agree. Every single non-American I've talked to about this movie, even the ones that (for some reason...) enjoyed this movie, see it as an exercise in American jingoism. The notion that "unity" means "following America's lead" is downright offensive. There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about unity in this movie, if you look at it from a non-American perspective. The one line that sums up everything that is wrong with this movie, "Fourth of July will no longer be an American holiday" is a microcosm of how the movie gets this message completely wrong. The unspoken idea is that the world should care about the American template, an American day, and share the American joy and pride because that somehow means uniting. That's not how unity works. Interestingly, the very same line tends to be brought up by most of my American friends as a DEFENSE of the movie. "See, it's not just about America!". No, that's 100% wrong. For all its talk about diversity, the American culture wants diversity on its own terms. In its own way. It's about Americans choosing what they want, deciding what is best, and patting other cultures and nations on the head ("See? We celebrate St. Paddy's! We train yoga! We eat Chinese food! What a melting pot of cultures we are! Do I know anything about the history of Irish struggle for independence? Who cares, have a green beer!" =P). It's shallow and fake, and what America tends to know about the outside world is a brought, theme-park style caricature - like the caricatures of other nations and parts of the world in the movie! The movie presents no non-American central heroes, has the world follow in America's footsteps, shows only what is hurting America as indicative of the problems of the world, and has America save the day. This movie is the most annoying piece of plastic, cheap, toxic and harmful patriotism that I saw until, well, the Michael Bay blockbusters. Which are worse, but barely. Interestingly, all non-Americans I've talked to seem to see it that way, and virtually no Americans I've talked to do (even though most Americans I did talk to about the movie were very smart, very considerate people). That fact is, to me, deeply disturbing. It shows not only that America has a perspective that does not incorporate the realities of the outside world, but also that this perspective seems to be 100% natural for the American attitude. EDIT: and the mind-boggling thing about the movie is that Emmerich is a German, so I'd expect him to see how problematic it is to the deliver the "international" message (provided the message is even MEANT to be in there, which I am not sure the video is right about) in such an insulting way.
This is the most I fun I have ever had watching a review. Just AWESOME this review gave me hardcore feels (partly because of the speech). I am fan of NC and Channel Awesome but being around that negativity all the time can get you down. If UA-cam still had a Star system this would absolutely get 5 star.
Ugh...I thought this was coming out on the 4th and it seems kind of like its only in 144p. Yeah...if you could fix that. EDIT: Huh, last part was wrong after a refresh.
I disagree with Bob's complete dismissal of criticism of the virus plot point as nitpicking for pedants. Plots holes like this can break immersion and take me out of the movie because my brain flags them as stupid. In other words, they can lessen the experience and negatively impact the movie's overall quality. I don't criticise that development because I can't stand anything at all being out of place, but because my brain is saying "That could never happen." Criticism of this or that plot hole doesn't mean I didn't enjoy or appreciate the movie, it just means I wish the stupid hadn't leaped out at me and marred the overall experience. I understand why Bob consistently dismisses criticism of plot holes when it comes to understanding whether a movie holds up or not, and I mostly agree. A movie's internal logic and emotion is vastly more important than how feasible or realistic any particular scene is. But almost anyone can be put off by details being patently wrong in a movie, and the more (and more elementary) the errors in any given film, the higher the chance a member of the audience is going to feel the movie is insulting their intelligence by offering-up nonsense with a straight face. For me, it's not the case that such errors/narrative shortcuts somehow invalidate a movie. But they do risk introducing incongruence between the viewers' own experiences and the movie's portrayal, and this incongruence can create emotional distance between a viewer and the movie.
What I like the most about ID4 (and remember liking back when I saw it as a kid) is the first act with its nice, ominous buildup. After that it's mostly a little too goofy, but there's some good 90's nostalgia to be had.
I was hoping Bob would examine ID4, first and for most pasty it's is really interesting snap shot of the "roaring 90's" and it's natural to see how compares to blockbusters and the image of the USA today. The cheese or cringe at The U.S. saving the world in a film like this released today would be pretty intolerable. However since it was made in the mid 90's, a time when in a lot western countries, the USA wasn't in such poor standing from "soft" globalisation culture power and "hard" military political power. So it worked as a film then and makes for a great cultural sign post. In short, between the end of the Cold War and the invasion in Iraq, the U.S. was pretty much who the average joe would expect/hope to "save the day" and but that's not case anymore.
I only recently discovered Moviebob and his "Really That Good" series is what really made him one of my favorite UA-cam channels. I love hearing people talk for an hour about the stuff they like. I'll take a pass on "critics" who exist to just shit on popular things.
You made me completely recategorize Ghostbusters from "decent comedy" to "surprisingly smart lightning in a bottle". And put a finger on why Avengers, with all of it's shortcomings, is still a damn enjoyable film. You even talked me down from my reservations on Die Hard's foundation as a traditionalist white male power fantasy. But this was a bridge too far, Bob. I got nothing out of this one that I hadn't already considered, and I'm still very much in the "ID4 is too simple, too broad" camp. The only revelation I got from this was how snobbish some people apparently were about it, and how defensive other people still are about it. Still, thumbs up, because even when I'm not buying what you're selling, I appreciate the effort.
I feel like you're not looking deep enough. Just about everything Bob has said, I agreed with. It's only broad and simple because you're looking at the film with a broad stroke and a simplistic view. You're only looking at the surface level. Listen again to what Bob said about the characterization, whether it's Jasmine the female love interest who's also a pole-dancer, or President Whitmore who actually showed that he gave a damn about people, including his soldiers ("This isn't happening fast enough - GET THEM OUT OF THERE!"). Or how about that aspect where Judaism instead of Christianity was the predominant religion in the film? That was pretty cool and diverse, or the fact that Russell Casse's family was made up of Mexican mixed race instead of a more traditional American family. Or how about this: the message of unity was further cemented by Jasmine and Steve's wedding (as the metaphor of marriage and unity is pretty clear-cut). In fact, if you think I'm blowing it out of proportion, Constance and David were reunited during said wedding. So really, I think it's a matter of "you see what you want," and that's a quality that should exist in all manner of films.
Lol Bob seemed genually offended by the bit from The X Files. I don't know, I didn't like Independence Day, even when I was a kid but I think the X files was a pretty cool show.
I've always considered ID4 as my favorite "guilty pleasure", and I've watched it dozens of times. But now, after watching your video, I really respect the movie and I think I like it even more. Thanks, Bob!
It didn't carry it's message off well though, like you said, it shot itself in the foot super hard by it's massive nationalism. When viewed from outside the States that slight niggle is a devastating flaw. It's really damn racist when viewed outside America. Cripplingly so. Even Australia, which is becoming increasingly just U.S. Lite in terms of culture, is different enough that the film's intended message vs. shown message is really really jarring.
The film may be all the things you say it is but it is unfortunate that the American jingoism makes the film painfully unwatchable if you are not an American. I can't help but feel that a film that preaches unity and diversity while simultaneously alienating anyone who is not a member of a specific group is by definition a failure.
Why is an American movie being America eccentric a bad thing? And other cultures should not alienate you, I watch and enjoy bollywood films all the time and I am not Indian
I heard the speech. It was incredibly cringeworthy. Even weirder, I was watching it in a cinema with my brother. When the applause came at the end, my brother and I were looking at each other like "wow, the surround sound is awesome!" but then we looked across and there was a big group of American tourists clapping and yelling. It was a real WTF moment, because we were rolling our eyes at how awful the speech was.
Why is it necessary for Bob to include his political views in his videos? I understand he has a great grasp on culture and film obviously, but how does a conspiracy theorist compare to conservatives thinkers and ideologues? Let me guess, Bob wants me to think they're crazy. He wants me to think that criticizers of Obama are all racists. Never mind if his foreign policy is no different than George W. Bush's or his civil liberty track record is horrible. I'll just end my rant. I enjoy his videos but this nonsense has to stop.
Wade Bishop His role in the movie was so small that I honestly had to look it up to remember who he even was. If he's your reason for not liking the movie, then you are hunting for reasons to hate it, and if you have to specifically look for something to dislike, then it's time to just admit that you liked it.
Limbo08 X-Files decided they were gonna be smug and literally piss on someone else’s art, they were begging to get shit on for something that Independence Day didn’t do
I actually just saw your Phantom Menace big picture episode today. Seeing that, and then the "really that good" video makes me kinda hope for a potential "really that bad" episode for movies like The Phantom Menace. Just am idea. Anyway, great stuff as always, Bob.
Awesome. Wow... a 30 minute lecture where I really learned something about a movie that I took for granted. I saw this ON July 4th 12:01AM. I remember how the whole audience cheered and celebrated the destruction of the aliens. I haven't seen that since.
I’ve always read the film as saying that AMERICAN unity was needed to save humanity. Race, religion, class don’t matter we’re all AMERICANS let’s get the world together around our ideas of E Plurbis Unum, declare independence and save humanity. Things that you point out as “undermining the message” only serve to reinforce more America-centric readings. The rest of the world isn’t what the movie is about the movie is about America and our unity. With the rest of the world being over simplified because it’s so much background. That being said the horrendous sequel to Independence Day leans much more heavily on the globalism and replaces the Americana with world building and inane character call backs. It shows that the globalist subtext hidden under the American flag and explosions was probably the original intent. I prefer my reading though because in my eyes at least it represents everything our country in particular continues to need: strength through diversity and unity across all races, religions and social classes. (In the modern day I’d throw political party, gender and sexual orientation as other differences we should overcome as a nation). Making it about the whole of humanity instead of just America undermines the important message I got from the film that we need more then ever in this country.
Bravo! Bravo! Movie Bob you have articulated so well why ID4 should be considered a great film! I have failed to convince my movie snob friends so many times that ID4 is more than a 90s popcorn flick. I'm going to share this so hard on each of their facebooks lol. AGAIN super well done.
While the X files movie is shit, your basically making appeal to success. By that exact same logic, Hatred and Black Opts 2/COD Ghosts are fantastic amazing movies because....they made a lot of money.
Gnomelord0 I don't think so. Many other blockbusters are also very successful because of they're designed to appeal to an international audience, but I don't think they do it in quite the way that Bob just described here. (Also, hi! Fancy seeing you in this comments section. Small world, huh?)
Gnomelord0 There's a difference between box office success and lasting appeal; something that continues to be talked about for generations, and influences future works. I think he was trying to imply ID has the latter where X-Files does not.
Gnomelord0 It would only be an appeal to success if he listed their box office figures side by side and then ended the video. Instead Bob spent 30 minutes listing all the things great about Independence Day that X-Files lacked. And please tell me that was just a terrible joke and not a pathetic attempt at trolling. CoD Blops 2 and hatred should never be mentioned in the same breath when talking about "success". Cod Blops 2 sales count as one of the biggest releases of a single piece of media in history. Hatred is as commercially successful as Depression Quest. I swear "gamers" giving undeserved hand jobs to Hatred are worse than hipsters.
I was and still am a fan of cinema sins, but as soon as you said "nitpick stupid shit is not what we do here" I had a strong desire to watch more of your reviews. eloquent shit sir, extremely well done
I really don't buy all the hand waving, down playing and re-contextualizing Bob does here about the movie's obnoxious American patriotism. Independence day becoming a world holiday sounds more to me like "well, the ever-awesome Americans saved the day nearly single handedly, so it's about time you all did things our way from now on." than what Bob was suggesting. The movie seems more to me like crass US imperialism than an endorsement of unity and equality. Sure, the human race can pull together and win the day, but naturally only if the US is in charge.
Bjorn Worpel _The movie seems more to me like crass US imperialism than an endorsement of unity and equality._ I think it's fair to say that it's both. There's a strain of American idealism (perhaps best embodied by Teddy Roosevelt) that seeks to simultaneously fulfill the promise of the nation's founding, and to induct the rest of the world into it, as well. And to the extent that you view the foundation of America as an extension of broad Enlightenment principles, it doesn't have to be particularly nationalistic.
Bjorn Worpel I feel that way too, but I think that's what Bob was talking about when he covered the film's flaws and pointed out that it was problematic that despite the films alleged intentions, it was still being told from an American perspective.
I remember a cool explanation of the Aliens not having computer security that I read somewhere: since they're a hive mind, the idea that one of their own could deliberately try to screw some of them over, like by hacking their computers, just doesn't occur to them when they're designing their systems. Also would explain why they don't have any kind of security gate on the mothership so Letterman and Hiller just fly right in and don't get scanned or anything.
What th- what are you doing here, Olly???
I know I'm way late here, but wasn't a lot of the humans technology was reverse engineered from the alien craft they found?
@@paulheap1982 Furthermore the aliens were using human satellites to communicate with one another across the planet, meaning that they must have purposefully made their OSes compatible with human technology to do it, in the process giving Dave an opening to exploit with his computer virus. He even says so "just as they used our satellites against us we'll use their signal against them."
Actually what's funny is that even if they had computer security the attack still would have worked. David's attack would have been a day zero attack, which antivirus would not have helped against. Resitriction of privilage may have gotten them however they were linked to the mothership so...
@@paulheap1982 yes
"Smile damn it! It's a movie, not a funeral!"
YES! FUCKING YES! I miss this about movies!
Let us note that given the vast majority of Hollywood being Democrats with an agenda of spreading a global AIDS epidemic by covering up unsafe sex with abortions, drug overdoses, identity group class warfare, and every other form of insanely suicidal self-destructive behavior in order to downsize the population of the world to something small enough for media monopolies to micromanage by Orwellian thought control, it's sort of like expecting some People's Temple mass suicide cult to create Frank Capra's It's a Wonderful Life.
@@jimscribner8314 I think your tinfoil hat slipped, buddy.
The part where you talk about how simplicity is often confused with dumbing down was really an eye opener. Brilliant review.
Kind of goes hand-in-hand with the idea of grim, gritty, depressed "realism" being smarter.
Wow, Bob; you've blown my mind. The idea of mixed race families and religious tolerance being not only widely accepted yet not commented on along with the unification of humanity through perseverance makes ID the most Roddenberry inspired non-Trek movie ever made. Well done.
"Smile, damn it. It's a movie not a funeral.", is a quote I'll keep. :)
Avengers 4: How about some cake?
Yes please, people ask me why I'm so into family/kids films despite being in my mid-20's, this is why. I encounter depressing stuff every time I turn on the news, or see a newspaper, sometimes it's nice to have a film say 'yeah, shit can get really bad, but there's good stuff too'.
docterfantazmo That explains the guy sensei profile picture. Can't argue with you at all
TheWolvesDen
True facts, it's natural/enjoyable to feel melancholy or sad but that's ALL a large chunk of adult media seems to acknowledge and the rest has this real condescending tone whenever it does have a bit of fun. Got to acknowledge that we're not serious, gods forbid people have genuine fun and not act like a bunch of snarky twats.
Its weird in most of my adult intake its probably more jaded but video game intake is the entire joy/fun to balance it out. One thing I appreciate with Movie Bob is his desire to challenge that and makes me reconsider the value of more light hearted films
docterfantazmo I think the last crowd pleaser that just asked us to smile and look at awesome stuff that wasn't a Marvel, Pixar, or Disney movie was Pacific Rim.
KazeAizen Pacific Rim was basically a less stupid version of ID4, odd that Bob didn't bring it up.
"Nitpicking stupid shit is the opposite of what we do here."
Get that on a shirt.
Actually, ironically, he says he doesn't nitpick on stupid shit, because he feels to him, it isn't stupid shit. Like others. To me, I see him as nitpicking stupid shit on the social justice themes very often.
You sir, have made me rethink this movie and how much it has impacted my generation. Thank you. When I first heard of Independence Day: Resurgence I just gave it eye-rolls, but now I am genuinely excited or it.
i thought it was mindless USA! USA! USA! propaganda then and have seen more of the same since.
Phantom9252 sorry to say but the sequel fail! it didn't have any direction beside cliché alien movie
I totally agree. My big concern, however, is how he feels about Emmerich's other films and will he still be thinking the same things about how genius he is.
Too bad it really was an eye roll
Oof 4 years later... didn’t age well..
Dearest Bob, we miss these. I imagine they take a ton of work, but they are so brilliant. 🙏🏾 Please back the original concept concept when you can!
Thank you for this! ID4 was one of the most exciting films I had ever seen as a pre-teen back in '96. The music, effects, dialogue - it was all so exciting. But years later, I believe it still thrills not because of simple nostalgia, but because of, well, basically all the points you've raised. Great job!
and that, Bob, is why you are about the only critic i can take seriously. You really get into it beyond "i like it or hate it". Keep it up.
I can watch this movie over and over, one of my favorite movies when I was young
As a small science communicator, I love the point that big-budget flashy movies like ID4 can help humanity grow. As a storyteller myself, that makes total sense. I know this is from 2015, but you earned a sub and a bell ring. :) Loved your Superman 78 breakdown too.
and with that, I have finished your 'really that good' series so far and honestly, you have genuinely inspired me sir. I'm currently in university studying English literature and I now feel compelled to explore film, so i'm going to add an extra module to my course because you have made it simply fascinating to me, more than any other film analyst I know, thank you
The last 10 minutes talking about feel good, positive movies, how they've been a way of the past, seen really in only the Marvel movies lately - was beautiful and I couldn't agree more.
Damn dude... not only did you say everything that I thought and saw in the film, but you even opened my eyes to to interesting subjects and hidden messages. I 100% agree with everything. I saw this movie with some Naval buddies of mine in Hawaii. and a lot of military went to see it on opening day.... I was never so proud to be serving than when I heard that speech. Grown men cried after that, that's how good it was. Bravo to you.
Take THAT nostalgia critic!
R3GARnator I agree with both reviews. I like what Bob had to say, but it's just too goddamn cheesy for me!
R3GARnator i wish he did one that was not rely that good
JOTARO KUJO
That would be missing the point.
R3GARnator Both of them are correct.. ID is cheesy popcorn movie what isn't good overall in any way, but also it isn't downright bad as it work as exactly what it is.. a popcorn movie!
NC target nostalgia and so it is obvious that he point out all flows what he find.
Bob ask question about what good is in something, and he point out what worked.
And so any of those opinions aren't wrong, just different point of view.
Except MovieBob didn't merely say it wasn't bad, he said it was good. So no they can't both be right.
usually i use youtube vids like white noise in the background while playing games or being out and about, but for these "Really that Good" segments from the GREAT senor MovieBob, i sit and watch the whole thing on through, engaging kickass and i take much from it, great work man :)
I've always liked ID4, but this has really helped me realize why I've always liked it.
Also, it's really impressive that for huge 30-40 min videos Bob is able to keep my impatient arse on the seat the whole time, he's good at staying engaging.
Bro, same! This movie literally brings to life all the little aspects I appreciated about it. Regardless of what they say, the attention to detail in these small things is what makes it my favorite film of all time
I wish you would do a lot more movie reviews of old and new movies, because you are REALLY THAT GOOD. Love the way you break down a movie to its basic form and explain it.
Best memory of this movie? My mate turning to me during the destruction of the Whitehouse and saying: "Do you know how they did that? They used a model"...
And I was thinking they just blew up real buildings and had to rebuild them in movies
Probably one of the best movie reviews I've ever listened to. Well done.
Did there really need to be 2 minutes of shitting on the X Files? I thought this was supposed to be about iD4.
This is the sort of thing that makes me glad to be a subscriber. This carries the intelligence of film analysis that I have grown to both crave and respect from your work. I'm grateful for how much time and effort you've dedicated to your "really that good" series. Another excellent video to add to the collection!
After watching Nostalgia Critic pretty much pans this movie it's really nice to see Moviebob talk about it from a different perspective. Almost make me want to see them have an actual discussion on this movie with their respective opinion.
@2:05 So happy you used that image, K.N.D. was a great show.
how is this under 1000 views???
Bob has intelligent criticism over the so called dumb movies, and this one is great.
Much better than anything from cinema sins or other movie channel on youtube
Great job Movie Bob I really enjoyed watching this video and I liked the format. It's great seeing a longer video as it hits the movie fix better though I did feel you could split the video into a second at 14:18 for a 'next time we'll talk about theme'. Put it out 2 days later, but it's kinda cool to hear you talk for 30 minutes with so much to say and the rate you manage. Nice work.
@moviebob Would ID4's timing at that brief window when CGI allowed for realistic special-effects portraying things that miniature models couldn't, but was still not mature enough to completely replace the use of miniature models in VFX, thus forcing the VFX department to use the CGI effects sparingly, also have something to do with how much love the film gets?
X-Files was just an in-joke. An exchange, since it was also mentioned in Independence Day.
Actually in the DVD commentaries, it's confirmed Russell married Miguel's mom and adopted Miguel while the two younger siblings are the kids of Russell and Miguel's mom who died offscreen before the film.
Some people are "die-hard" purists meaning if tha movie doesn't explicitly say so then it doesn't count|
You are so wrong about X-Files. When people like Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad), Howard Gordon (Homeland), Bryan Fuller (Hannibal), JJ Abrams (Lost, upcoming Star Wars), David Chase (The Sopranos), etc. all cite the show as one of the most influential tv shows of all time, it couldn't possibly be that bad. That golden age of television we have right now? It owes quite a bit to The X-Files.
Dear Moviebob,
I am very grateful and appreciative how your videos show me a perspective I've never before considered as well as giving me an academic crash course in Film Literacy. Merci mille fois!
Did you really need to waste so many minutes dwelling on some stupid Xfiles scene?
Katie Baily I think he did, yeah.
EssThree Yea, it's a physical need.
Katie Baily X Files never aged as well. Trust me, I loved the show in its day, but now it's just not the same. Also the movies, especially the second one, were just not good.
The X-files aged so bad, it people started to realized how bad it was, before it's original run was over. To bad that at that moment they already committed to a movie which became synopsis of the series.
@@Traumglanz Nah, a good deal of the stand-alone episodes still hold up very, very well. It's the mythology stuff that don't hold up.
The X-files movie was in no way "pissing" on Independence day. The poster was at Molder's eye level. Unless the poster was 6ft tall, or Molder was arching his piss stream up, there is no way a drop got on that poster. I saw both films in the theater, everyone chuckled during that scene. Not because it was a dig, but because it was a meta reference to as alien invasion film, in an alien invasion film, and at the time Independence day was the most hyped movie ever, you literally couldn't take a piss in and alley without seeing an ID4 poster. Everybody got the joke but Movie Bob.
Loving this series! Great work Bob!
I didn't know I wanted these vids until I got them. Explaining visual narrative devices, various influences, and message of the screenplay vs execution, social impact both then and now. So many movies I'd like to see covered, like why Spirited Away was a breakthrough, why Anchorman was so often quoted for years, and I'd love to revisit The Italian Job, Silence of the Lambs, Ben Hur, The Great Race, Charlie and the Chocolate factory, Singing in the Rain
"Charlie and the Chocolate factory"
I see what you did there.
WHOA WHOA WHOA
What's with all the X-FIles bashing? Are you serious? Yeah, the mythology doesn't work, but it has LOADS of classic episodes of television that still totally hold up. What are you talking about, Bob?
j Hughes I'd love an example. Honestly, I can't remember a single episode from that show, and I watched a fair chunk of it during it's run...mostly because the Simpsons was on right after :/
"Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose"
The one that one an Emmy for Outstanding Writing for a Drama series? Just for one? I mean, I could give you a top ten if you like. The X-Files is a stone classic.
Sure, go for it. I'm asking sincerely :)
Oh, no problem. In no particular order:
Jose Chung's From Outer Space
Pusher
Home (Easily the most terrifying episode, do not watch in the dark)
Drive (Written by Breaking Bad creator Vince Gilligan, and starring Brian Cranston)
Humbug
Bad Blood
The Host
Small Potatoes
Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose
Monday
j Hughes Oh man Jose Chung's was THE BEST. Granted, not necessarily indicative of the rest of the show but hilariousy self-aware and smart at the same time! I'd also say the character of Tooms is a solid example of memorable original lore the show created.
This is great! Subscribed about 7 minutes in. You're not a small channel, but you need more viewers.
I've enjoyed these series so far, but I'm concerned it's just going to be an echo chamber series where you just take broadly liked movies and confirm that they're good. I really hope you have an episode soon where you take a movie and say "Is it really that good? No. Here's why."
Neil Brown
That would be stupid. The whole point of "Really That Good" is to examine well-beloved films to find out WHY they are so well-liked on a technical and thematic level. It is a show about positivity and validation in a landscape that seems to be increasingly about negativity and mocking, which is what makes it kind of unique. You want to watch more shows about tearing people's enjoyment down? Good for you, there are a 1000 shows like that around the internet. You are not getting this one though.
I didn't say I don't want Moviebob to not talk about how movies are awesome. So far he's been right that these movies are all great! But it feels like just another circlejerk where everyone just nods their heads and says "yup, that classic is a classic." Some variety would make it much more interesting.
Neil Brown
But that is still missing the goddamn point. Take out the focus on positivity and validation of beloved films and RTG is just another review show, no different from any other on the internet. The variety comes from the kind of films he looks at and how they do different things well. Simply alternating between "this is good" and "this is bad" is not any meaningful variety. If focusing on positive stuff is circle jerking to you, then maybe that is what we actually need.
If Moviebob's intent is to have a show where, as you put it, the entire point is "the focus on positivity and validation of beloved films" then his show is pointless besides fan pandering. Some critical analysis from him would be spectacular, and it's definitely something he's done in the past. He's willing to call out movies for not being as great as it could be (remember how awestruck he was at Man of Steel at first), it feels disappointing that he wouldn't continue to do that. You of course can have your opinion on what Moviebob should do in his videos, I just disagree with them.
Neil Brown
So you don't think that Bob has been doing any "critical analysis" in his 30+min videos looking at beloved films from multiple angles and perspectives? Solid logic there. You are living proof of why this show needs to exist. "Criticism" is not synonymous with "negativity", and critically analyzing WHY a film has moved so many rather than asking if it SHOULD move that many is not "fan pandering".
I love this movie. It's so much fun even without all that subtext. I didn't realize that it was Will Smith's first real run at an action role, but he already had that charisma I guess.
Moviebob's X-Files jab at the beginning just comes off as mean spirited. Otherwise, good review.
You're right. This DID get me thinking. I've been itching to create a narrative of this type with a major emphasis on unity overcoming impossible odds. And that subtle camera trick that isolates characters in negative scenes and uses group shots for positive scenes is something I never noticed. I'll have to keep it in mind!
You sure do seem to be mad at the X-Files movie for... a really dumb forgettable joke that nobody cared about.
Like, it's kinda hard to keep watching through that part because of how awkwardly angry you come across over such a small, petty thing in a movie nobody cares about or even likely knows exists.
I mean, other than those who are watching during the 2 minute pause where you stop reviewing one movie to take a shit on a more obscure, forgotten one.
Goatmon Forced? *Definitely.* Overly long? Sure! Displaying frustration and/or disappointment? Certainly. Angry, though? Have you *ever* been *actually* angry? Because it does not sound like that at all. Use your words... you are typing on a combination dictionary/thesaurus, after all.
Peter S "haHaHa haHaHaHa, That is so fucking funny!" and then he proceeds to rant for the next 90 seconds. That is classic "I'm so angry, I'm going to good-naturedly SCREAM sarcasm at the mic in a way that barely hides my seething frustration"
sloucho84 It's still not anger. You really need a dictionary to go along with your emotional states, apparently.
Peter S And you need to understand subtext apparently. I summed it up pretty well, I thought.
sloucho84 I saw what you said. I saw the video. I say, for the last time, if you think that is anger you need to get outside and have some real emotions. That ain't it.
I can tell how much effort goes into each one of these videos. I didn't think you could top the one you did on Avengers, but this was just as interesting, if not more so. Big thumbs up from me :D
Vivica A. Fox's character being a stripper seems less to be a subversion of a trope than a blatant excuse to put a woman in a sexy outfit in the movie.
cimmeriusIII Actually, that is one of the only genuinely good subversions in this movie. Okay, most of the characters also, but thematically, the whole globalism / unity thing just isn't really there. The speech itself is basically "America is so fucking awesome that we will save the world, and from now on, everyone else will celebrate our holiday also to honor us".
Except she’s only in her dancer outfit for one scene, and establishing shot showing that she’s dancing, but no one is paying attention to her because of the invasion news. For the rest of the movie she’s fully clothed, usually in layers. The scene in her lingerie lasts less than 30 seconds, and it centers her face, not focusing on body parts like a lot of male gazey scenes.
Good words dude. I've always considered it to be one the greatest B movies. Nice to know I wasnt alone. You're videos are humerous and thoughtful. Thanks.
I've watched a couple of these ... I'm wondering, are there any where he admits that something *was not* that good?
He started the series explaining there's enough critical and sometimes snobbish deconstruction going on everywhere in pop-culture, and he wants this show to focus on when things go right and why.
Wow, I must say Bob you've convinced me to look at this movie through a new lens. Never thought about it through a global, humanist perspective, great analysis.
I fail to see the problem with the poster scene in the X-Files movie, to be honest. I figured the movies were simply making ironic shoutouts to each other, as there is a scene in Independence Day where someone is on the phone, receiving a report about the alien activity, and in disbelief says something sarcastic like "yeah sure, aliens; look I've seen the X-Files too."
These things happen in movies. In the first Nightmare on Elm Street, Nancy is watching Evil Dead on her TV. In Evil Dead 2, Freddy's glove can be seen in Ash's tool shed. A girl watches Critters in Nightmare 3, and in Critters 2 one of the alien bounty hunters almost morphs into Freddy while looking at a Nightmare 2 poster.
It's not like Mulder was actually peeing ON the poster. I think you read too much into that particular moment.
Just discovered your channel; excellent video, excellent analysis. Excited to see more, thank you much!
Hey Bob, lay off the X-Files. it was really good at...well, it had amazing...but it's story was so...Fine, Gillian Anderson was really hot and it gave us a really great episode of The Simpsons
Maybe I'm wrong, I was a kid in the 90's, but wasn't the X-Files' saving grace that it was sci-fi ("geek shit") presented with the trappings of mystery drama? So it was that geek shit, but didn't feel like it?
@@vidmuncher X-Files has some of the best stand-alone episodes. The mythology arcs didn't work in the end, but the stand-alone episodes absolutely hold up.
I am sitting here with a huge grin on my face. You called it precisely sir. There are only two movies that are capable of doing that to me: Independence Day and Cloud Atlas.
As a non American I always thought it was borderline offensive and also very expected that only U.S. born citizens in movies were allowed to be the heroes and this movie was the poster child of that way of thinking.
Only just found this channel - this video was incredibly thought provoking and transformative for me. Thanks!
Non-american here. I found the theme of "unity" to be undermined by the unspoken subtext of "...with America in charge, as the morally correct leader". To me (and everyone I know) the speech was insanely cringey, and revealed rather too much about how Americans see themselves. In fact, that uncomfortable feeling was my main take away from the movie. Looking at the comments, I think I'm not alone in that.
I completely agree. Every single non-American I've talked to about this movie, even the ones that (for some reason...) enjoyed this movie, see it as an exercise in American jingoism. The notion that "unity" means "following America's lead" is downright offensive. There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about unity in this movie, if you look at it from a non-American perspective.
The one line that sums up everything that is wrong with this movie, "Fourth of July will no longer be an American holiday" is a microcosm of how the movie gets this message completely wrong. The unspoken idea is that the world should care about the American template, an American day, and share the American joy and pride because that somehow means uniting. That's not how unity works. Interestingly, the very same line tends to be brought up by most of my American friends as a DEFENSE of the movie. "See, it's not just about America!".
No, that's 100% wrong. For all its talk about diversity, the American culture wants diversity on its own terms. In its own way. It's about Americans choosing what they want, deciding what is best, and patting other cultures and nations on the head ("See? We celebrate St. Paddy's! We train yoga! We eat Chinese food! What a melting pot of cultures we are! Do I know anything about the history of Irish struggle for independence? Who cares, have a green beer!" =P). It's shallow and fake, and what America tends to know about the outside world is a brought, theme-park style caricature - like the caricatures of other nations and parts of the world in the movie!
The movie presents no non-American central heroes, has the world follow in America's footsteps, shows only what is hurting America as indicative of the problems of the world, and has America save the day. This movie is the most annoying piece of plastic, cheap, toxic and harmful patriotism that I saw until, well, the Michael Bay blockbusters. Which are worse, but barely.
Interestingly, all non-Americans I've talked to seem to see it that way, and virtually no Americans I've talked to do (even though most Americans I did talk to about the movie were very smart, very considerate people). That fact is, to me, deeply disturbing. It shows not only that America has a perspective that does not incorporate the realities of the outside world, but also that this perspective seems to be 100% natural for the American attitude.
EDIT: and the mind-boggling thing about the movie is that Emmerich is a German, so I'd expect him to see how problematic it is to the deliver the "international" message (provided the message is even MEANT to be in there, which I am not sure the video is right about) in such an insulting way.
Michael Sporzynski
Support the death of humanity
Do the right thing
This was the best morning cup of coffee I've had in a while! Thank you!
This is the most I fun I have ever had watching a review. Just AWESOME this review gave me hardcore feels (partly because of the speech). I am fan of NC and Channel Awesome but being around that negativity all the time can get you down. If UA-cam still had a Star system this would absolutely get 5 star.
WOOOOOOOOOO!!
Great episode, Bob!
Ugh...I thought this was coming out on the 4th and it seems kind of like its only in 144p. Yeah...if you could fix that.
EDIT: Huh, last part was wrong after a refresh.
***** It's literally just uploaded, it takes about 30-60 minutes to render higher resolutions. Just fyi for folks who don't know.
I'm going to admit that Barry moment from American Dad is one of my favorite things ever.
I disagree with Bob's complete dismissal of criticism of the virus plot point as nitpicking for pedants. Plots holes like this can break immersion and take me out of the movie because my brain flags them as stupid. In other words, they can lessen the experience and negatively impact the movie's overall quality. I don't criticise that development because I can't stand anything at all being out of place, but because my brain is saying "That could never happen." Criticism of this or that plot hole doesn't mean I didn't enjoy or appreciate the movie, it just means I wish the stupid hadn't leaped out at me and marred the overall experience. I understand why Bob consistently dismisses criticism of plot holes when it comes to understanding whether a movie holds up or not, and I mostly agree. A movie's internal logic and emotion is vastly more important than how feasible or realistic any particular scene is. But almost anyone can be put off by details being patently wrong in a movie, and the more (and more elementary) the errors in any given film, the higher the chance a member of the audience is going to feel the movie is insulting their intelligence by offering-up nonsense with a straight face. For me, it's not the case that such errors/narrative shortcuts somehow invalidate a movie. But they do risk introducing incongruence between the viewers' own experiences and the movie's portrayal, and this incongruence can create emotional distance between a viewer and the movie.
Brilliant series, Bob! Please keep them coming! Thanks!
I like Bob
19:10 brilliant.
this channel is a new fav for sure
Your "dismissive laugh" is unbelievably unpleasant to listen to.
Not gonna lie, that joke was kinda over-long
What I like the most about ID4 (and remember liking back when I saw it as a kid) is the first act with its nice, ominous buildup. After that it's mostly a little too goofy, but there's some good 90's nostalgia to be had.
So "the most universally understood" is the same thing as "the most American"? Nice.
Petr Onderka
Support the death of humanity
Do the right thing
This is the best. Thank you so much for this series and this enthusiasm.
I was hoping Bob would examine ID4, first and for most pasty it's is really interesting snap shot of the "roaring 90's" and it's natural to see how compares to blockbusters and the image of the USA today.
The cheese or cringe at The U.S. saving the world in a film like this released today would be pretty intolerable. However since it was made in the mid 90's, a time when in a lot western countries, the USA wasn't in such poor standing from "soft" globalisation culture power and "hard" military political power. So it worked as a film then and makes for a great cultural sign post.
In short, between the end of the Cold War and the invasion in Iraq, the U.S. was pretty much who the average joe would expect/hope to "save the day" and but that's not case anymore.
I only recently discovered Moviebob and his "Really That Good" series is what really made him one of my favorite UA-cam channels.
I love hearing people talk for an hour about the stuff they like. I'll take a pass on "critics" who exist to just shit on popular things.
You made me completely recategorize Ghostbusters from "decent comedy" to "surprisingly smart lightning in a bottle". And put a finger on why Avengers, with all of it's shortcomings, is still a damn enjoyable film. You even talked me down from my reservations on Die Hard's foundation as a traditionalist white male power fantasy.
But this was a bridge too far, Bob. I got nothing out of this one that I hadn't already considered, and I'm still very much in the "ID4 is too simple, too broad" camp. The only revelation I got from this was how snobbish some people apparently were about it, and how defensive other people still are about it.
Still, thumbs up, because even when I'm not buying what you're selling, I appreciate the effort.
I feel like you're not looking deep enough. Just about everything Bob has said, I agreed with. It's only broad and simple because you're looking at the film with a broad stroke and a simplistic view. You're only looking at the surface level.
Listen again to what Bob said about the characterization, whether it's Jasmine the female love interest who's also a pole-dancer, or President Whitmore who actually showed that he gave a damn about people, including his soldiers ("This isn't happening fast enough - GET THEM OUT OF THERE!"). Or how about that aspect where Judaism instead of Christianity was the predominant religion in the film? That was pretty cool and diverse, or the fact that Russell Casse's family was made up of Mexican mixed race instead of a more traditional American family.
Or how about this: the message of unity was further cemented by Jasmine and Steve's wedding (as the metaphor of marriage and unity is pretty clear-cut). In fact, if you think I'm blowing it out of proportion, Constance and David were reunited during said wedding.
So really, I think it's a matter of "you see what you want," and that's a quality that should exist in all manner of films.
This is an utterly excellent deconstruction of this film.
Lol Bob seemed genually offended by the bit from The X Files. I don't know, I didn't like Independence Day, even when I was a kid but I think the X files was a pretty cool show.
I've always considered ID4 as my favorite "guilty pleasure", and I've watched it dozens of times. But now, after watching your video, I really respect the movie and I think I like it even more. Thanks, Bob!
It didn't carry it's message off well though, like you said, it shot itself in the foot super hard by it's massive nationalism. When viewed from outside the States that slight niggle is a devastating flaw. It's really damn racist when viewed outside America. Cripplingly so. Even Australia, which is becoming increasingly just U.S. Lite in terms of culture, is different enough that the film's intended message vs. shown message is really really jarring.
You put my feelings for this movie into intelligible words. One of my most favourite movies of all time.
I miss this Bob, really that good, in my opinion, is his best work by far, now everything he does is so uber political is honestly exhausting…
The film may be all the things you say it is but it is unfortunate that the American jingoism makes the film painfully unwatchable if you are not an American. I can't help but feel that a film that preaches unity and diversity while simultaneously alienating anyone who is not a member of a specific group is by definition a failure.
I had Pakistani and Indian friends at the time who loved the film.
Why is an American movie being America eccentric a bad thing? And other cultures should not alienate you, I watch and enjoy bollywood films all the time and I am not Indian
I am an Indian and my friends and i enjoyed this film. We were too young to care about jingoism.
I heard the speech. It was incredibly cringeworthy. Even weirder, I was watching it in a cinema with my brother. When the applause came at the end, my brother and I were looking at each other like "wow, the surround sound is awesome!" but then we looked across and there was a big group of American tourists clapping and yelling. It was a real WTF moment, because we were rolling our eyes at how awful the speech was.
I LOVED Independence Day! I still do, watch it whenever it is on cable.
the X-files part sounded like a butthurt fan "getting back" at those meanies who don't like his favorite series
So the 90´s didn´t suck after all.
Great work Bob!
Why is it necessary for Bob to include his political views in his videos? I understand he has a great grasp on culture and film obviously, but how does a conspiracy theorist compare to conservatives thinkers and ideologues?
Let me guess, Bob wants me to think they're crazy. He wants me to think that criticizers of Obama are all racists. Never mind if his foreign policy is no different than George W. Bush's or his civil liberty track record is horrible.
I'll just end my rant. I enjoy his videos but this nonsense has to stop.
WingStopExpress12 someone else's nonsense has to stop? Because u said so? Gtfoh
As a growing film maker, I always learn a lot from this series. Yep, you are really that good!
Worst part of the whole movie was that Adam Baldwin had to be in it. granted its a small role but that guy thrives on ruining things.
Wade Bishop eh, there was nothing wrong with his role in this, so whatever
Wade Bishop His role in the movie was so small that I honestly had to look it up to remember who he even was. If he's your reason for not liking the movie, then you are hunting for reasons to hate it, and if you have to specifically look for something to dislike, then it's time to just admit that you liked it.
And?.....You're implying that's a bad thing.Because let me tell you it's not.
***** "Recently"? The show is over 10 years old!
***** Oh, you're one of /those/ people.
i love that "noone's perfect" line
Great video, however, the intro was abit to smug for this series, I thought we were here to have fun?
Limbo08 X-Files decided they were gonna be smug and literally piss on someone else’s art, they were begging to get shit on for something that Independence Day didn’t do
I actually just saw your Phantom Menace big picture episode today. Seeing that, and then the "really that good" video makes me kinda hope for a potential "really that bad" episode for movies like The Phantom Menace. Just am idea. Anyway, great stuff as always, Bob.
But what about Boomer ?
Boomer. Will. Live!
Awesome. Wow... a 30 minute lecture where I really learned something about a movie that I took for granted. I saw this ON July 4th 12:01AM. I remember how the whole audience cheered and celebrated the destruction of the aliens. I haven't seen that since.
You laugh like Mandark.....
+InMaTeofDeath
Bob's dismissive laugh is the most unpleasant sound I've ever heard.
I’ve always read the film as saying that AMERICAN unity was needed to save humanity. Race, religion, class don’t matter we’re all AMERICANS let’s get the world together around our ideas of E Plurbis Unum, declare independence and save humanity. Things that you point out as “undermining the message” only serve to reinforce more America-centric readings. The rest of the world isn’t what the movie is about the movie is about America and our unity. With the rest of the world being over simplified because it’s so much background. That being said the horrendous sequel to Independence Day leans much more heavily on the globalism and replaces the Americana with world building and inane character call backs. It shows that the globalist subtext hidden under the American flag and explosions was probably the original intent. I prefer my reading though because in my eyes at least it represents everything our country in particular continues to need: strength through diversity and unity across all races, religions and social classes. (In the modern day I’d throw political party, gender and sexual orientation as other differences we should overcome as a nation). Making it about the whole of humanity instead of just America undermines the important message I got from the film that we need more then ever in this country.
We get it, Bob. You don't like X-Files. Move on a bit faster next time.
Character arcs, cause having your protagonists grow, change, and self actualize over the course of a story makes for satisfying story telling.
Wow. You gave more thought to this movie than anyone involved in it did.
Bravo! Bravo! Movie Bob you have articulated so well why ID4 should be considered a great film! I have failed to convince my movie snob friends so many times that ID4 is more than a 90s popcorn flick. I'm going to share this so hard on each of their facebooks lol. AGAIN super well done.
While the X files movie is shit, your basically making appeal to success. By that exact same logic, Hatred and Black Opts 2/COD Ghosts are fantastic amazing movies because....they made a lot of money.
Gnomelord0 And by universal, you mean "American"
Gnomelord0 I don't think so. Many other blockbusters are also very successful because of they're designed to appeal to an international audience, but I don't think they do it in quite the way that Bob just described here.
(Also, hi! Fancy seeing you in this comments section. Small world, huh?)
Gnomelord0 There's a difference between box office success and lasting appeal; something that continues to be talked about for generations, and influences future works. I think he was trying to imply ID has the latter where X-Files does not.
Gnomelord0 It would only be an appeal to success if he listed their box office figures side by side and then ended the video. Instead Bob spent 30 minutes listing all the things great about Independence Day that X-Files lacked.
And please tell me that was just a terrible joke and not a pathetic attempt at trolling. CoD Blops 2 and hatred should never be mentioned in the same breath when talking about "success". Cod Blops 2 sales count as one of the biggest releases of a single piece of media in history. Hatred is as commercially successful as Depression Quest. I swear "gamers" giving undeserved hand jobs to Hatred are worse than hipsters.
Gnomelord0 Recognisible landmarks. Empire State, White House (you know the one based on Roman/Greek architecture, the milestones of western culture).
I was and still am a fan of cinema sins, but as soon as you said "nitpick stupid shit is not what we do here" I had a strong desire to watch more of your reviews. eloquent shit sir, extremely well done
I really don't buy all the hand waving, down playing and re-contextualizing Bob does here about the movie's obnoxious American patriotism. Independence day becoming a world holiday sounds more to me like "well, the ever-awesome Americans saved the day nearly single handedly, so it's about time you all did things our way from now on." than what Bob was suggesting.
The movie seems more to me like crass US imperialism than an endorsement of unity and equality. Sure, the human race can pull together and win the day, but naturally only if the US is in charge.
Bjorn Worpel Exactly.
Bjorn Worpel Bob addresses this in the review...
Bjorn Worpel _The movie seems more to me like crass US imperialism than an endorsement of unity and equality._
I think it's fair to say that it's both. There's a strain of American idealism (perhaps best embodied by Teddy Roosevelt) that seeks to simultaneously fulfill the promise of the nation's founding, and to induct the rest of the world into it, as well. And to the extent that you view the foundation of America as an extension of broad Enlightenment principles, it doesn't have to be particularly nationalistic.
Bjorn Worpel You forgot the part where he says it's suggesting an idealised America, not the one that exists in the real world.
Bjorn Worpel I feel that way too, but I think that's what Bob was talking about when he covered the film's flaws and pointed out that it was problematic that despite the films alleged intentions, it was still being told from an American perspective.
This was a well thought out and insightful analysis. Good job Bob.