will do a video testing the gmc hd2024 equivalent to this truck on the gauntlet with both engines and give your opinion which version of new gas gm truck hd is better based on the results and then determine which gm diesel model is better? andrea please settle the debate for good!
Grow up little boy and stop spewing immature disgusting filthy F-words on a public forum! How pathetically unprofessional, disrespectful, uneducated, immoral, and Godless, thus anti-American.
For serious heavy towing theres no replacement for a turbo diesel. However the large majority of the owners of HD trucks never get close to maxing them out or towing as heavy as this, and as a result i think this 6.6 gas will be more than enough for the majority of people. Less upfront cost and way less maintenance/DEF/fuel cost than a diesel.
I guy down my street with a 6.2L F250 tows a good sized 5th wheel! Don’t know how far he goes but it seems to do the job. Oh, and that’s with the 6-speed.
See my comment above. Yes, a diesel engine is superior, and a gas engine takes second place by a sizable power margin. However, a gas engine does the job just fine. The few times with gasoline regret were: Lack of power at an uphill onramp - slow acceleration unless on level ramp. Passing a slow semi on a long steep uphill climb. And, hearing the engine rev to 5,000 to supply the needed torque and power or or to help slow the rig going downhill. I neglected to mention that with record summer heat - 90 degrees plus - the 6 speed transmission temp never exceeded 220 degrees on my 4500 mile trip.
You are 100% right, this truck just took a huge durability hit with this tow. 5k rpm and 240f trans temps! Nothing on any gasser or trans will last doing that. If this was my rig I would have slowed down to 45mph or so so I wasn’t WOT the whole way
Remember this was at altitude with a naturally aspirated engine - no turbo compensation. I think the L8T with the 10-speed is a great option. Plus no DEF. No regeneration BS.
Yes this is a at max of 11,100 feet which is higher than any other highway or interstate in the US. This is not normal everyday towing but an extreme towing stretch for 8 miles. 99% of towing is not even close to this
Yeah to put in into perspective with the power loss of being at 2 miles up this 6.6 was making 90 less HP and 80 ftlbs less than a 5.3L. So really if you had a 5.3L with beefed up components it would tow better than this at normal altitudes.
Switched from a LML duramax to the 6.6 gas. Absolutely love it, I pull a tractor/some heavy things every once in awhile. Great looking truck, gets 14 mpg most of the time and is so much cheaper/more reliable to daily drive. If I pulled a big trailer daily id maybe switch but diesel is just not justifiable for like 90% of what I do.
I have a ‘22 6.6 Gas and couldn’t be happier. I’m in Iowa and don’t have mountains to tow in, so the gas engine works great for me. I also don’t expect it to run like a duramax with 975ft/lbs. I don’t honestly see the 10 speed as a game changer. I do think GM should be offering lower gear ratios though.
Fantastic review! BUT. I purchased a 2022 Silverado 3500HD LT, Dually - Long bed/crew cab with 6.6L gas engine and the 6 speed transmission. Due to Covid GM ordering issues we ordered the LT model adding a bunch of packages to nearly match an LTZ. That approach greatly expedited the delivery date. 98% the same truck without the Z. Delivered price was about $63K. It's just over a year old with 10K miles. We tow a 35 foot fifth wheel weighing about 12,500 lbs loaded. We just finished a 4,500 mile plus camping season, towing from NY State to Bar Harbor ME, Disney World in Florida and then back to Upstate NY. We encountered every imaginable type of road and mountainous area east of the Rockies. Not quite the Gauntlet, but many stretches were similar. The truck performed wonderfully. I always felt stable and in control even in strong wind and on the wash-board roads of I 81 in Pennsylvania. We averaged 8.0 MPG for the 4,500 miles and alternated using 87 and 89 octane. I didn't notice any performance difference. GM even provided a TPMS for the trailer tires, and a wireless rear trailer camera that displays directly on the truck's screen. I grappled with Diesel vs Gas, but glad I saved the $10K differential in cost, have easier maintenance and no need for DEF. At times the engine does rev uncomfortable high under load uphill and when entering the highway. When in trailering mode a tap on the brake pedal downshifts to hold speed going down hill. Another tap and there is another downshift and more aggressive "engine braking" going downhill. However, when the engine revs to 4,500 or 5,000 RPM it's a bit disconcerting. I used this many times in the Blue Ridge Mountains. You didn't emphasize this in your review. Not equivalent to a diesel, but it did hold downhill speed and reduced the need to use the brakes on long downhill runs. The gas engine is smooth and quiet, but does need more torque. Looking back, I'd order it again without reservation. Another item . . . I had many comments along the trip. "Great looking truck and 5th wheel set-up, but it's a gasser and a GM product" . . . There's a pervasive mindset that an HD gas truck is a waste of money. Also, brand loyalty snobs are ubiquitous. It pulls my rig safely and reliably, so my "problem" . . . $mile. I neglected to mention that with record summer heat - 90 degrees plus - the 6 speed transmission temp never exceeded 220 degrees on my 4500 mile trip.
I was looking to purchase a srw Denali 3500 gasser for a 13k 42ft fiver which will be towed less than a dozen times per year. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet cause I’m still considering a DRW, but this would also be my every day driver
The $10k savings will be lost in resale value. The diesel will hold its value much better than the gasser. Gas work trucks are essentially throw away at the end of life
@@tylerhunt891only if you’re one of those people who trades-in and finances every two years. If you’re keeping the truck for 10 years, the lesser maintenance and repair costs, and cheaper purchase price will make up for the difference in resale value. Also, GM gassers tend to be less throwaway than Ford and Ram
Yes, the resale for my gasser will be somewhat less than a similar equipped diesel. Ten to fifteen years from now when I'm ready to sell the difference in value will likely be minimal.
Love my 24' 2500 LT. I tow campers for my business weekly. Already have 8500 miles on it since April and it pulls like a dream. Fuel economy could be better, but it's not all that bad either. Your test is definitely an extreme that 99.9% of people will never have to do, but Im glad you guys do it. Definitely showed that the 6.6 gasser is a great towing machine on normal roads if it can survive the guantlet.
I decided on the LT version 6.6 gas when I purchased in '21 to save myself the added cost for the diesel and LTZ add-ons. I tow a 12,000lb 5th wheel from Northeast Pennsylvania so my elevations are much less and I'm very happy with the capability and the truck overall. I do wish I had the 10spd though.
Be happy that you have a standard 6 speed. It has a much more predictable shift pattern, will last longer, and be much cheaper to replace if anything ever happens.
I recently had a chance to drive a 6.6 gasser with the old 6 speed. I watch all these videos, but you don't fully appreciate it until you experience it. Holy crap was I impressed. That '22 GMC pulled every bit as well as my '99 Cummins used to. I know I'll get hate for that, but it's true.
I have a new 24 GMC AT4 2500 HD 6.6 gas with the 10 spd and it is very similar to my 2004.5 LLY Duramax as far as hp and torque. I have about 91 more HP and only down 46 ft/lb of torque. The LLY Motor for 2004-2006 had 310 HP and 510 ft/lb. The only thing it lacked was a 6spd trans and the larger fuel tank. I sold that in 2018 and bought the new L5P and had nothing but problems. I ditched that in 2023...had so many issues with it, It actually went through the lemon law process it was that bad (that was almost a 2 year process). I got all my money back and ordered the truck I have now and couldn't be happier. My trailer loaded with my 2 seat Can Am is only about 5K lbs so I am still way over as far as the truck I need but I know down the road going to a bigger trailer is not an issue. The last trip I did with my trailer was 727 miles and for the whole trip I got 10 mpg. Not bad.
GM designed the fifth hitch where it is actually behind the rear axle just a bit. What you are missing is that the hitch is still centered in the rear springs because they are longer behind the axle than in front of the axle. That is why you still get the proper weight distribution with the fifth hitch behind the axke but aides in turning clearance.
Great video guys! I help build every type of GM HD trucks with the best people from Local 598 at Flint Assembly, and I enjoy seeing you guys put them through rigorous tests. It’s great to be able to see what our trucks can do, and relay that information back to the folks at work.
These 10 speed transmissions run A LOT warmer than what you're traditionally used to. They use a low viscosity fluid that is designed for higher temps. They mostly did this for cold weather performance and fuel economy. For example, without towing, 200F is where my 2018 F-150 with the 10 speed stays during normal driving. So 243 is completely normal, especially when towing. I have also seen multiple videos where Ford and GM engineers say these trucks can get well above 250 and its still safe to tow with
250°F does seem hot. I know a 550hp Cummins engine in a semi truck maintains around 1,000°F internally. These high temps won't hurt a diesel engine whatsoever, 1,000°F internal temp results in cleaner fuel burn. Normal coolant temperature in a semi is around 180°F
Ford is having a much higher failure rate than the other manufacturers for this very reason. They are specifying a higher than optimal operating temperature range for these transmissions.
I went with a high optioned LT gasser when I bought my 22 2500HD. The 6 speed does plenty well for what I need. I just towed our boat and a full short bed of camping gear 800 miles over labor day weekend and it didn't even skip a beat. I've pulled a 7000lb TT with a bed full of gear through the ozark mountains and was still able to accelerate from 55-70 without even breaking a sweat. The gasser makes a great truck for when you don't tow every day but when you do, you need the extra power and payload capacity that just isn't available in a half ton.
Yet you did that at low elevation, now try doing that out west where you get 6% and 10% grades at 10.000 ft elev. I guarantee you'll be begging for a diesel. But yeah it's fine for that piddle ass boat towing. Try towing a 15,000 5th wheel RV anywhere with that truck and see how you like it. :)😁
@@sdw48erWho GAF? Not all of us "live out west" nor tow and any appreciable elevation. You buy the diesel for 10k extra and deal with all the recurring costs that go along with it.
@@mattwag11 It's tough towing in the mountains in The east too. Like in Tenn. And my 2002 Duramax was never in the shop even one time in 20 years. And so far my 2022 Duramax has never been in the shop either. So I don't know what extra cost you're talking about. But just like He says in the video above they had to slow down to let it cool off, you don't have to do that with a diesel. If it gets hot, you speed up to take the engine to just below redline and it will cool off while driving down the road. Diesel has many advantages over gas engines. One advantage is they last longer and go many more miles than a gas engine. Second they get better gas mileage.
@@sdw48erI guarantee he won’t be “begging” for a diesel. I’ve towed those grades at elevations during my trips with a 10k pound 5th wheel. It’ll do the work as long as you know how to use your truck. Edited cause I read your next comment. You have a 2002 diesel bro, a real diesel, not the EPA garbage filled ones. Keep on trucking 🦾🦾🦾
@@slaytanic921 I hate to see the gas mileage towing a grade with that gasser. Diesels get the same mileage whether you're going 55 or 75. I got ten mpg at 60 mph whether I was going up a 6% grade or flat ground, or 5,000 ft elv. or 10,000 ft elv. That's the advantages of a diesel or gas engine. If gas was better then those several million 18-wheelers would be running gas engines instead of diesel.
One comment about the downhill portion. I own a 2022 2500hd with the 6spd. If you apply the brakes lightly for a time (in tow/haul Mode) the transmission will downshift and reduce your speed. If you apply the brakes like you seem to in the video the reduce your speed quicker the transmission doesn't have time to react. I tow my 39' 5th wheel and use this to slow down the truck on grades etc. It is similar to using the manual shift button without having to shift it into manual. I know its not the gauntlet but it works well on the hills of the northeast.
Copied from owners Manual, pg. 240; Tow/Haul Mode Grade Braking Tow/Haul Mode Grade Braking is only enabled while the Tow/Haul Mode is selected and the vehicle is not in the Range Selection Mode. Tow/Haul Mode Grade Braking assists in maintaining desired vehicle speeds when driving on downhill grades by using the engine and transmission to slow the vehicle
So if I understand the numbers, this gasser is about $75k with options? Holy moly. 🤯 My 2021 Allison/Duramax was only $71! LTZ, 3500. Cost of new trucks are insane.
At that point might as well just buy a diesel. I know I found one of the new Denali Ultimate recently for around $92 and getting quite a bit fancier truck and you can only get the Duramax in the Ultimate.
I own a 24 6.6 gas with gm allison. Pulled 8,000 lb travel trailer 500 miles to beach. Many hills through Tn and Alabama and hardly tell it was behind me
Really good video. Truck is super nice. But the presentation improvement and video quality in general was impressive. The conversation was natural informative and well filmed. Nice job.
In the diesel vs gas debate, the one topic that you havent covered is reliability. And I am talking about the entire truck, but primarily the emissions systems that come with the diesel. I had a cummins powered ram and loved it..... right up to travelling fully loaded in the middle of the night and the middle of the state when the truck gave me the 150 mile countdown because of a DEF problem. I had my entire family and it was a close call on whether I could make it home or not. I learned later that there are parameters that limit the derate so you can make it to your destination. But I didnt know it that night. After a hassle to get it into the dealer, they shrugged their shoulders and said they couldnt find anything wrong. I pay to run platinum DEF to avoid these problems. It didnt matter. The net is full of similar stories where DEF issues ruin vacations etc. That was enough for me, I sold the truck and went back to gas. Coming up on 25K miles with zero issues on the gas rig. Gas is ole reliable at this point. Diesel is running on the ragged edge due to emissions. I would love to see kind of an investigative piece on diesel emissions issues. Does running a diesel truck, with all of the benefits, come with a price beyond what you paid for it??? Inquiring minds want to know.
I agree, I have a 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Crew Cab Long Bed SLE 4x4 6.0l gasser. Truck does great, 50k miles never been in the shop bought it brand new. Just got back from California towed 2 cars on a 36' flat bed gooseneck trailer probably around 16-17k pounds to Colorado went over this exact pass actually, I live in north eastern CO. Truck handled it great other than going 25 mph at the top of the hill but trans stayed cooler around 225 at the top. Even in 110 degree whether through Nevada truck never over heated nor trans. Don't mistake it, people don't NEED diesels, they want diesels, unless you're really towing 16-17k+ there's no point to them. And you're right emissions systems are complicated and expensive. I can buy a new motor cheaper than someone can buy a new emissions setup. I wouldn't own a diesel unless it was pre-emissions. I do have a 2014 Chevy Cruze 2.0l turbo diesel, tuned deleted and straight piped good car I think 187k miles on it now nothing too major in repairs. But that car will do mid 50's on the highway. At 100 mph it'll get about 33 mpg. Drove that car from Colorado to Kentucky doing 100 mpg basically the entire way because speeding is fun, made good time, 15 hours or so straight never shut it off, only filled up 1 full tank, then a little extra fuel at the end never had an issue never stopped working never over heated. I'd trust that car even pushing 200k miles to drive to Europe and back if they made a bridge long enough. I'm not a diesel hater I just won't drive anything with emissions. Also have a 92 2.4l turbo diesel Hilux Surf, right hand drive pretty cool had EGR, that was deleted even.
Mine left the dealer lot, crossed the street , went through an immediate weight reduction, zero issues, immediate mpg and tq increase, and done safely. Oohhh and the dealer 3 months later paid me mad cash for some of the emission components for another customers broken down pos, long as I bring it to them there was never a warranty issue on the truck. My next truck will be deleted before the plastic come off the seats.
@panthermartin7784 I'm not anti delete don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't bet on being able to keep a deleted truck around for the next 10 years. You'll be spending a lot of money on getting everything put back on lol. That's an expensive way to go.
We run all 6.6L gassers for our service body fleet. Our trucks never tow but they take a lot of payload. The engine is simple and torquey. Unless you need to max tough, hard to justify the diesel costs.
I bought a 2024 2500 gasser. Coming from a diesel, this makes more sense for me now. I only tow a 9500 pound camper 3 to 4 times a year on vacation and it does it very easily. The diesel will always beat out the gasser, but for me it didn’t make sense to pay the up charge plus all the additional maintenance of a diesel just to tow a few times a year. So this is all situational.
Exactly my situation, sold my 2019 High Country Duramax, have a 2024 Midnight edition gasser on order as we speak. Can't wait to get it. Regens drove me nuts as I daily drive and tow a handful of times a year. Just couldn't justify the diesel not to mention diesels don't like short trips.
@@mattwag11 I love the 19 body style and seats. Your '24 seats are smaller and much much harder. I sold my 20 Denali 2500 due to the shit seats. Not sure why GM wont make a better seat
Thanks for the video! Everyone was asking for the new GM 10 Spd Diesel versus gas on the 2024. I think this video is a great comparison and speaks for itself. This was the video we all waited for 💪🏼
Great show guys, seeing you two traveling that stretch of highway brought back memories of me on that same stretch way back in the early 80's driving a 1975 4 door dually, 454 4 speed 410 gears, pulling a 35' single wheel three axle trailer, I dont remember the gvw etc. but I do know I ran 26,000lb plates and I always meet or exceeded that weight every run, I dont remember fuel mileage being quite as bad as yours, but my memory well that's another story, and I never timed any uphill runs even though I'm sure yours is faster, but as I look back I wasn't in that big of a hurry and was grateful to make it to the top. Thanks TFL
Next you guys should test the 7.3 Ford and the 6.4 Hemi with the same trailer weight (or as close as you can get for those trucks' respective ratings).
They did run those trucks up the Ike already earlier this year. I won't spoil the results for you but I'll tell you that the Ford is a beautiful blue color, and the Ram I believe was grey. I know the Ford they were towing a horse trailer that was about 2k lbs heavier. I believe the Ram had the same trailer.
Had a 2020 hemi ram bighorn crew 4x4 that claims to tow 11,750 with the 5.7L Hemi and I believe it will easily start the load rolling because of the gearing in the 8 Speed transmission and the 3.9x gear ratio, but I am not sure the temperatures of the transmission or the engine could handle it without modifications.
Transmission temps is why I installed the missing transmission cooler on my '19 Tundra that for some reason Toyota decided to remove. I just towed all of my stuff in a cargo trailer to Alaska and didn't want to toast the transmission in the middle of nowhere in Canada on the way. Even still I saw pan temps in the 220's and TC temps in the 250's on some of the climbs on the Alcan. Can't imagine what they would have been without the cooler.
The transmission temp isn’t an issue. Remember the Ford engineer said the transmission can run at 250 all day and GM and Ford use the same transmission.
It's not quite the same transmission. As I understand the light duty 10 speeds were co-developed, and share considerable parts, but the heavy duty transmissions each manufacturer took that knowledge and went off to develop their own. I think a few teardown videos have shown some quite different internal workings between them.
The 6.6 gasser with the Allison transmission will likely be a good fit for lots of towing needs. The nearly $10K in savings over the diesel is significant.
I can't help but think though that a Duramax engine would last much longer than a gas engine, as diesels usually do, therefore making it well worth it in the long run. Then again how many people do 600k+ miles
You should buy the diesel if you are towing this heavy very often. Not like most people that have a diesel and tow a couple times a year with their 5k lbs boat or camper. Also you have to consider how long you will be keeping the truck.. remember after the warranty expires diesel engines are stupid expensive to repair. You can usually replace the entire gas engine for what it costs to do just some fairly minor work on a diesel.
Great video, TFL team. Love the truck and the awesome testing you guys do in the mountains of Colorado, my backyard. I’m hoping to own a Silverado HD here soon. My plans with it, towing heavy trailers across the country, definitely the Duramax 3500 dually is the best option. Towing and hauling light loads for shorter distances, gasser is a good option as well. Duramax is my favorite, but I do have a soft spot for the gasser. Great job, as always, Chevrolet.
So for everyone saying the 10 speeds in the Silverado is the same as the Ford 10 speed… It was in fact a joint venture between Allison and Ford; however, other than the bell housing, they are totally different. Ford outsourced all of their internals to the lowest bidder, Allison kept them in house. The clutch mount bolts in the Ford were made by a different company than the one who made the clutch mounts. The bolts are a bit too small, so the excessive clunking in the Ford correlates to this flaw, causing the loud clunking and thumping sound. I have learned all kinds of info about this from Ford dealers as I have a 2022 F 250 Godzilla currently getting its second transmission in 29,000 miles!
Great test guys!! I think this really shows how tough this test actually is. Also, if you don’t tow heavy on a weekly basis, I would 100% choose the gas. On the other hand, the diesels have the most problems when you’re just putting around town, so if you buy a diesel, make sure you work it hard.
Diesels are made to work long hard miles. Short light hauls are very hard on a diesel. For example driving to work a few miles every day without a trailer
Exactly. One of my subs has a newer Duramax and has a CEL on because he doesn’t tow with the truck. Dealer told him the same thing. The diesel is built to work and needs to be pushed in order to perform. Driving unloaded around town is NOT good for them.
The height of this trailer cannot be ignored when looking at the MPG. For example a heavy for my F-150 TT that had a tall wall front pulled so much different on the highway vs a more aerodynamic TT. Around town where there was little aerodynamic effect and that heavy flat front trailer towed with ease. Unless climbing hilly, towing tall/heavy and doing this regularly I would save your money and go gas. Great test!
Ive had both the 6.6 gas and the 6.6 duramax in a Chevy 2500 that tows a lot and even in Texas, towing 14,000lbs frequently, the gas engine just didnt cut it. Its ok for an occasional tow with that much weight as itll get you where you need to go but its really weak when getting up to speed on the highway. I dont regret switching back to a deisel at all.
I work/daily drive the 2024 GMC 2500hd pro version of this truck with about an additional 1000lbs including my tools and a lift gate and have to say in the last month this truck has been pretty solid. the mountains haven't been to troublesome at all my only real complaint has been with mpg. But honestly solid motor/transmission combo for a work truck
The biggest problem with using a gas engine to pull one of these trailers is trying to get gas at a station in a sea if cars all around you and how close the pumps are together. It’s much easier to go to a truck stop where it’s designed for long trailers.
Most truck stops have RV lanes now and usually the regular car gas lanes are much larger at truck stops. I just avoid regular gas stations and never have any issues
Bingo! This is exactly right. I was, frankly, a little disappointed in this performance, and the "economy". I expected more. Would have hated to see the transmission temps if the truck had been loaded to its max rated towing weight! I suspect that Andre would have pulled off the road to cool it down, which is a fail to me. I do wonder what Allison thinks of this design that they left to Ford/GM to do and rubber-stamped it (OK, not exactly, but it's not a true Allison)
2.5 things: First, If possible, do a second test with a 30ft Travel Trailer and see how it does/compares. Second, I wish they would force induct the gas engine to get a better comparison to the diesels. There was a time when the diesel was not turbo charged. That would make it more apples-to-apples comparison. Keep up the great content, I enjoy it!
With the extreme expense of both the diesel engine up charge, the fuel costs and the extra costs of diesel maintenance, no matter how more efficient they are it becomes harder and harder to justify buying one…unless you tow and tow heavy and often like once or twice a week, it doesn’t appear to make financial sense to spend 70-80k for even a basic spec diesel truck
Yes if you are buying a truck to keep forever diesel makes no since, even given the longevity…. Which is less and less real these days. Even if a diesel lives longer than a gas (which is no longer the given it used to be) it’s gonna take a helluva lot more money to achieve. If you cycle into a new truck Avery couple years and can afford the initial ante of the extra cost, sure the diesel makes sense. You’ll carry your ante forward with each exchange, and get most of it back when you get off the ride.
@upshifter5316 I have a shop and have repaired several diesels with 200k miles or a little less that needed repairs that were more than gasoline crate motor would cost. I'm not counting diesel fuel system repairs for water or DEF poisoning. I don't see the HD gas motor trucks with issues at 200k. No track record on the GM 6.6 at 200k that I've serviced. I have counseled countless customers that don't tow to get gasoline next time. Some listen and they usually drop to 1/2 tons.
Except you get all that up charge back when you sell or trade the truck, the diesel has almost double the warranty of the gas engines, and the diesel can do more and do everything better.
@@jimmyaber5920 My work has a fleet of ~20 F550s, we had 2 gas trucks and the rest were diesel. Management thought we didn't need the cost of the diesel. Anyway the two gassers are both on engine number 3 at roughly 5000 engine hours. 2022 model year trucks. Lifters fail and kill them every time. We have diesel F550s from 2011 that are still on the original engine coming up on 20k hours. If you work these trucks hard the gassers die.
Absolutely love your gauntlet Andre! Your partner did amazing also, thank you for your information and incredible personality. You are the reason I watch the channel
A great video on basically reaffirming that you need to pick the right tool for the job that you need done. It would have great to see a break even analysis between the gas vs diesel for a few different scenarios. Frequent, long drives, and high elevation will always lend itself to having a diesel for better performance but there are probably use cases where it makes negligible differences.
Their is no break even with the diesel. I’ve talked to fleet operators and they tell me that the diesel costs more to buy, own and operate and you don’t get it back on resale. (10k to buy 6k back on resale). You buy the diesel for just one reason. You want or need the power. There is no economic argument for a diesel.
If you want to tow 50% of the rated tow rating you should just get a diesel or something bigger. Sure on the flats you might be fine, but hit a mountain and you will be staring at the gauges, who wants to do that on vacation?
@@atodaso1668 I mean I have a 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Crew Cab Long Bed SLE 4x4 6.0l gasser, towed a 36' Gooseneck Lamar flat bed trailer, duel dually axles on it here from Colorado to California about 1k miles, picked up 2 cars that are probably about 5k a piece, so combined weight I'd imagine is at least 16 or 17k pounds maybe even pushing 18k, trucks only rated for 13.7k. Drove it back home no issues another 1k miles went over this same pass in the video trans only hit 225 at the peak before the tunnel but I was keeping it reasonable wasn't trying to push the truck that much. Trucks at 50k miles handled it no problem even at 110 degrees towing that weight outside Vegas it never over heated. Flat ground the trans was running 160-180 typically. I can replace my motor and my transmission for cheaper than you can replace the emissions system on a diesel, and I'd have a new trans and motor for another 300k miles lol. Then again my truck runs everything Amsoil, front and rear dif, transfer case, transmission, engine oil and coolant is all Amsoil, only liquid that's not Amsoil is brake fluid. So maybe that just makes everything more efficient. I'd never roast my trans to 240+ degrees I really try not to get much over 220. Even with my similar 36' 2005 Montana Fifth wheel gvwr on that is 14.3k usually loaded around the 12-13k pound range I've gone over the pass and never hit over the 220s. I don't think GM did a very good job with this truck or they were just pushing it too hard, either way if you wanted to tow heavy with it in extreme conditions like that a couple hundred bucks in an external trans cooler would be a wise upgrade. Diesels are great, love them, but unless you live in a place with no emissions I'd never own a modern diesel really just not worth the head ache. Replace a 3 and 5 and 6k dollar part every couple years you'll wish you had a gas truck. And the Governments not going to get any les strict on that stuff, if I bought a new truck in 2023 I'd want it to last 20 years to justify the cost, that's 2043, everything's going to be electric by that point or something else and there's going to be no more deleting most likely, that's just how it goes. 2003 we didn't even have emissions, 2023 we have them and can kinda silently delete them, 2043 you'll either be in electric or forced to keep emissions systems going and that's an expensive battle.
@ 17:10 (Duramax / 10-speed) 8 min, 6 sec & 3.6 mpg (but it's a different trailer than the other two tests) @ 17:45 (2020 6.6 gas / 6-speed) 11 min, 53 sec & 2.4 mpg @ 23:50 (2024 6.6 gas / 10-speed) 10 min, 4 sec & 2.3 mpg (but they said it would have been under 10 min if a truck had not been in their way)
Ventilated seats are an absolute must have for long hauls in the increasingly hot temperatures across the USA nowadays. It's only going to get worse, so COOLED and Ventilated seats are actually needed, and should be made available in every trim level. When it's over 100F and you have to cross Texas, they make life better.
I have a 6.7 Cummins in a 2022 Ram 2500 (G56 manual and 3.73 gears) and a 2022 F-250 Tremor with the 7.3 Godzilla. I have absolutely no issues with either one of them towing my 9000 lb travel trailer (just used the Tremor to tow the trailer from North Dakota to Sacramento) and averaged about the same fuel economy. Going down even the steepest mountain passes I never had to touch the brakes because the 10 speed would down shift keeping me at the speed I had the cruise control set at.
This was the video I needed. Just bought a 2023 2500 HD Gasser w/ the 6 speed and was concerned about towing a future 5th wheel but half the weight of the one you tested. This made me feel better about my purchase. I still love deisels though :)
I own an 22 model 2500 LT8 gas truck and pull a tandem axle trailer with a Polaris 1000xp heavy lifted and hunting gear to Ohio from NC multiple times a year! My buddy has f350 6.7 pulling same load and our fuel mileage is same. We pull mountains most of the 9 hr trip and although not super heavy weight the gasser will service most weekend warriors camping, pulling equipment etc under most conditions.
You guys need to manually hold the gears when driving downhill. Guaranteed you could do that whole downhill drive without a single brake application if you just put the gear shifter in L and used the + - buttons to hold the trucks speed below 60.
Great content as always! Love to see you go back to Ike with a Ford Superduty 7.3L and see how it would do with same trailer and weight - Regardless - I have a 3619 ATC and a 2022 F-350 Tremor 6.7L with 10 speed and that is a great combination - I also run a GenY 5" offset ball moving hitch back like GM does and swapped the 5er out for a Reese Goosebox 20k - which is an amazing towing combo. In addition my truck has 37.5x12.5x18 tires, Carli E-Venture suspension, full spring pack, air bags and 60 gallon S&B tank and to me it makes for the ultimate on/off/tow rig - I have over 600 miles of tow range with the S&B - that is my favorite upgrade! Thanks for the great information flow!
I tow a 14,400 lbs , 37 ft. 5th wheel for 15 years with a 2002 Silverado Duramax long bed, single axle. Never had the wind push me anywhere. And we were carrying cargo that put us a 16,000 lbs. But I ran Royal Purple in the eng. Royal purple in the transmission, Royal Purple in the rear differencial. Never had a problem in 20 years of owning that truck. Traded it in on a 2022 Silverado crew-cab, long-bed, Duramax, dually, and love it. Btw I have to say that my 02 was not stock. KN air cleaner, Magnaflow Exaust, and Edge Atitude with juice programer that I ran in tow mowed giving me 40 extral hp, and 125 more llbs of torqure. Climbed 11,000 ft. 6% grade pass at 55 mph. towing that load with no problems. I would never use a gas eng for towing in the mountains because of the terrible gas miles and lack of hp at high elevation. If you own a Duramax long enough, you'll pay for it with the gas mileage savings.
How ever, and this is my experience with my 2015 duramax. The cost of my brake downs, with all sync. lube included, far outway the price of the gas extra. Nox sensors def heaters, glow plugs, no one gets away from eventual replacement of these. Great vid. Towing all the time, yep diesel. Reg. everyday use, gas.
@TFLtruck You need to find a 7.3L Godzilla w/ 10spd and pull this SAME trailer & weight up the IKE (same ambient temperatures) for a real world comparison for those comparing the GM 6.6L L8T w/ 10L1000 'Allison' to the 7.3L Godzilla w/ 10R140. The previous 7.3L tested trailer had very low wind resistance compared to the trailer tested here.
I have a 2024 and I know my camper is only 7000 lbs but the highest temperature I’ve seen on my transmission is 186 degrees and that was in in hills of Arkansas some 7% grades.
Great video and very entertaining. Not all that relevant for me as I tow a 6,900 lb bumper pull trailer with a Silverado 1500 5.3. Still fun to see how the bigger trucks with a huge load do it. For what it is worth, my truck and trailer work great! I use a Weigh Safe WDH and it literally tows like it is on rails, as some might say. The truck is all stock. No cold air, no Borla exhaust (although they sound great). Typically three people and tools, etc., in the back. Near max payload but well within max towing capacity. Very pleased with my third 5.3 even after three 6.2 Escalades.
I had a 2000 Silverado with the 5.3. Towed a 6000lb TT up over 200,000 miles and it still ran like a top. Traded it in on a 2500 HD Duramax when the rear hard brake line burst under the cab. Loved that truck! I hated to get rid of it but wanted more truck and don’t have the space to store an extra truck.
I have a little overkill. I pull a 28’ toy hauler with a 2020 6.6,Duramax Denali HD and love it. It’s like pulling a pop up camper. There’s just me and the wife and we don’t have a need to pull a house behind us. We just load up the bike and go. The fuel mileage is wonderful compared to what I was getting with the 6.0 2018 Chev 2500 Gas.
Just went through two 68rfe transmisions in the last two years. I love driving my diesel trucks and have been for the last 6 years. But with the current EPA standards forcing manufacturers to use performance and reliability degrading components (EGR, DPF, DEF) and Ram trucks being the sole hosts for the Cummins engine and the fact that they refuse to either fix or get rid of their trash 68RFE transmission. Im seriously considering a gasser, Im only pulling about 5k pounds so any half-ton truck is good to go, also with the light off-roading that I do, the responsiveness of a gas powered truck will be much welcome.
If you are out driving the highways all the time yes get the diesel but if are only towing 5-6 times a year then get the gaser. I have seen so many disappointed diesel owners with all 3 big boys because they just don't put enough highway miles on and the emissions system just gets clogged all the time. As far as the cost of the extra 10 thou for the motor extra maintenance and higher price for fuel over gas it will take you a minimum of 8 years to reap the cost-benefit of the diesel motor
This is exactly right, I had a diesel prior to my new truck, which is the gas 2500, and the cost of the diesel outweighs the benefits if you're not towing often enough.
Dont forget the diesel part where your def tank heater goes out in the winter and your truck doesn't start so you tow it, and then you get it fixed and a month later the DPF is clogged and you are limited to 25mph max speed :)
In their June 10, 2017 video ("2017 Chevy Silverado HD 2500 Takes on the Super Ike Gauntlet"), the 2500HD/L96 6.0L gas engine managed to pull a 13.5k lb trailer (although it had a lot less frontal area than the trailer in this test) in 10 min, 21 sec.
It all depends on how often you tow, how heavy you tow, how far you tow, and conditions you tow in. Towing heavy, thru the mountains, you have to buy a diesel. But if you are a contractor hauling a few miles across town, even if heavy, you can do gas, especially if you are empty or small payload the rest of the time.
I'd definitely go with the gas. A little slower and less efficient up the side of a mountain. Saves you $10k up front, don't have to find diesel or Urea, don't have to worry about extreme low temps, don't have to worry about a $5k filter...
Diesels are incredibly impractical for most people. They have their purposes which are towing ultra heavy and towing ultra heavy at high elevation. Everything else though, gas engine is the way to go.
Guys, I have been using gaser's for years towing heavy. What I do is downshift the transmission, which will use the engine to slow you down on downhill runs. The gas engine can be used to slow down the truck, and does not cause any problems with brake fade. You just need to watch your RPM's.
As many gears as these newer vehicles have, I see no functional reason to not lock the torque converter while climbing for better efficiency and lower temps. The only reason I can think of that they perhaps don't is if the torque converter clutch can't handle the engine's full torque output.
In the 6 speed days it locked at the top of each gear and full lock at 45 which is nice to towing heavy at low speed aka hauling hay or anhydrous wagons and seed tenders they thought of the farmers and construction workers 10 years ago
Back in 2020, TFL did the Ike with the new 2020 F-250 with the 7.3L gasser. It crushed this new Silverado. It towed a 16,000lb 40FT horse trailer and did it in 8 min 42 sec.
Great video and great truck, I love the 6.6 gas 10 speed. I put a set of timbrens on my Chevy 2500 HD, they really helped with the squat for a gas burner. I would say it did better than what the 3.75 stars y’all gave it I would go higher.
@@dboatright2497 The better option is just buy the 1 ton gas truck. They don't ride any worse, mine has 4k pounds of payload more than anyone would ever need.
Have had my 2024 2500LT for one year this month. Went with gas as figured enough for my 7500lb travel trailer. Has been great with exception of rough 7-8 upshift that dealer says has no solution for. LT with safety and trailering options is the best bang for $ in my opinion. Went with gas as can fill up anywhere and not anywhere close to max load in my usage.
I think if you're towing over 10k lbs regularly, especially in terrain like this, just get a diesel. I have a 2024 gasser Sierra 3500, and towing my 27' travel trailer this summer over one 25-mile stretch with a 4,000' elevation gain the max transmission temp I saw was 203 with an outside temp of 100, so I was happy with that!
@@screddot7074not normally. Normally I’m right around 16-20 with a 6.7 Cummins . But if it can handle 35k mostly safely then 20 will be super safe. I also tow about 6k all the time with an old 5.4 ram 250 gasser from 91
yes ford has the edge at least on paper at the moment, Ram/cummins will come out with something in the next couple years that will match and or beat. and the staight 6 has more low end torque, and tends to be more reliable for people who haul long distances all the time. @@sultangris8063
I dont see an oil temp. But you guys are slowly getting better and pointing out the gauges. Lets face it, we really dont care much about anything else if we are destroying anything. So we REALY REALLY REALLY REALLY want all the temp information on all the tests from here on out, wrote on paper and tracked. THANK YOU
In the real world wouldn’t you manually lock out the higher gears and make the transmission work for you on the down hill vs waiting for the computer to figure it out and down shift ?? I don’t tow much, or heavy or the Ike gauntlet so just curious? I know it’s a test but in theory could you manually get that brake application down (obviously respecting trans temp and RPM’s)
I believe they do it this way to remove any driver skill input. This show cases the vehicle’s capabilities not the drivers and allows for better comparison of the vehicles.
Torque isn't the whole story, but I'm still astonished at how even the first gen 3.0 duramax is making the same torque as this 6.6 gasser. I think it would be cool to see a slightly bigger version of the inline 6 duramax shoved into a 2500 chassis. I love my 1500 LM2, but I would 100% upgrade to a slightly bigger version.
Big gas V8s are stupid in heavy towing applications and I'll never be convinced otherwise. There's a reason big rigs run large-displacement inline six diesels.
It isn’t hard to understand. This engine (and other HD gas v8s) are much more reliable and simpler than the 3.0 duramax, have no turbos, and have less maintenance costs. Most people that buy HD trucks buy them for payload, not for towing super heavy trailers constantly. If they did, they’d buy the diesel. But for occasional heavy towing they do great, with no def or emissions garbage and WAY cheaper running costs and purchase price. I have a new Godzilla with 4.30 gears. I towed a dump trailer with crushed limestone weighing a total of 11-12,000 pounds back and forth from my house and the gravel pit. It did excellent and moved the load great.
@@theglowcloud2215 Big rigs used to also be gas engines, and there's a reason that 18 and 22 speed transmissions exist. Diesel tech really didn't start taking off until the 90s and early 2000's. Gas engines do just fine you just have to be patient and don't expect to do 80 mph up 7% grades because that's stupid.
@@theglowcloud2215 I’d say big gas engines are stupid in “often, long distance” heavy towing. I pull trailers weighing up to 15,000 pounds with my Godzilla and it does awesome, but I don’t pull them on 1,000 mile trips or up the Ike Guantlet. Right tool for the right job.
With a 10 speed transmission the ten speed Gas should have the Option to get 4:10’s & 4:30’s I had 4:30 gears in my tundra with a 6 speed transmission it only turned 2300 Rpm @ 80 mph and still got 17/18 on the highway
The diesel costs $9500 more than the 6.6 gasser. You can buy a lot of fuel for that. No more often than most people are going to tow a max trailer load over the the Ike, the gasser will do fine. Or maybe spend about $5000 of those dollars and put a turbo system on the 6.6L gasser, then you wouldn't have to buzz the engine at 5000 rpm all the way up the hill.
Or maybe don’t rev the engine so high trying to race up the mountain and just take you time and downshift the trans and pull the hill at slower speeds and save your money.
@@callofdutyguy9 They were only doing 45 mph up the hill and still had to rev the engine at 4800 rpm. If they did what you say, they would have been in the slow lane with the semis doing 30 mph.
@@andyharman3022 if it’s ok for a semi with double digit liter Turbo diesel to do 30mph. Why should a significantly smaller and lighter duty vehicle have to go any faster?
I studied trucks for a year I wanted more luxury, and gas I had diesel in the past cannot justify that extra 9500 to 10,000 dollars for a diesel truck that most campers only pull about 7-8 times a year. I’m all over my gas 2024 Chevy 2500 Z71 LTZ love it. Her name is The Beast
Get Solderstick at 20% OFF with the discount code "TFL20" at www.solderstick.com/sale
Just ordered mine. I’ve been wanting to buy these for awhile and now I had a reason.
will do a video testing the gmc hd2024 equivalent to this truck on the gauntlet with both engines and give your opinion which version of new gas gm truck hd is better based on the results and then determine which gm diesel model is better? andrea please settle the debate for good!
Grow up little boy and stop spewing immature disgusting filthy F-words on a public forum!
How pathetically unprofessional, disrespectful, uneducated, immoral, and Godless, thus anti-American.
For serious heavy towing theres no replacement for a turbo diesel. However the large majority of the owners of HD trucks never get close to maxing them out or towing as heavy as this, and as a result i think this 6.6 gas will be more than enough for the majority of people. Less upfront cost and way less maintenance/DEF/fuel cost than a diesel.
They're great on the plains or rolling hills but towing through the mountains really requires a diesel.
Well I am doubtful that you actually save any on fuel I think the diesel is probably better
I guy down my street with a 6.2L F250 tows a good sized 5th wheel! Don’t know how far he goes but it seems to do the job. Oh, and that’s with the 6-speed.
See my comment above. Yes, a diesel engine is superior, and a gas engine takes second place by a sizable power margin. However, a gas engine does the job just fine. The few times with gasoline regret were: Lack of power at an uphill onramp - slow acceleration unless on level ramp. Passing a slow semi on a long steep uphill climb. And, hearing the engine rev to 5,000 to supply the needed torque and power or or to help slow the rig going downhill. I neglected to mention that with record summer heat - 90 degrees plus - the 6 speed transmission temp never exceeded 220 degrees on my 4500 mile trip.
You are 100% right, this truck just took a huge durability hit with this tow. 5k rpm and 240f trans temps! Nothing on any gasser or trans will last doing that. If this was my rig I would have slowed down to 45mph or so so I wasn’t WOT the whole way
Be interesting to see the 6.8 and 7.3 from Ford with this same trailer.
7.3 would crush it
@@propertypreparedness6846 that already did
And the Ram 6.4 Hemi, to round out the comparisons.
More HP doesn't mean better.
GMs always have had more efficient and more reliable drive trains.
@@philllsxga.7737 "GMs always have had more efficient and more reliable drive trains." Except in this case.
Remember this was at altitude with a naturally aspirated engine - no turbo compensation. I think the L8T with the 10-speed is a great option. Plus no DEF. No regeneration BS.
Yes this is a at max of 11,100 feet which is higher than any other highway or interstate in the US. This is not normal everyday towing but an extreme towing stretch for 8 miles. 99% of towing is not even close to this
Yeah to put in into perspective with the power loss of being at 2 miles up this 6.6 was making 90 less HP and 80 ftlbs less than a 5.3L. So really if you had a 5.3L with beefed up components it would tow better than this at normal altitudes.
No DEF, and no DEF system and the problems that come along with it. :-/
No expensive oil and more expensive parts!
@@Nick-sx6jmYeah, not quite.
Switched from a LML duramax to the 6.6 gas. Absolutely love it, I pull a tractor/some heavy things every once in awhile. Great looking truck, gets 14 mpg most of the time and is so much cheaper/more reliable to daily drive. If I pulled a big trailer daily id maybe switch but diesel is just not justifiable for like 90% of what I do.
I have a ‘22 6.6 Gas and couldn’t be happier. I’m in Iowa and don’t have mountains to tow in, so the gas engine works great for me. I also don’t expect it to run like a duramax with 975ft/lbs. I don’t honestly see the 10 speed as a game changer. I do think GM should be offering lower gear ratios though.
Kase is a natural. Very pleasant to watch the two of you hit the target on everything!
Like him better then mr truck
Fantastic review! BUT. I purchased a 2022 Silverado 3500HD LT, Dually - Long bed/crew cab with 6.6L gas engine and the 6 speed transmission. Due to Covid GM ordering issues we ordered the LT model adding a bunch of packages to nearly match an LTZ. That approach greatly expedited the delivery date. 98% the same truck without the Z. Delivered price was about $63K. It's just over a year old with 10K miles. We tow a 35 foot fifth wheel weighing about 12,500 lbs loaded. We just finished a 4,500 mile plus camping season, towing from NY State to Bar Harbor ME, Disney World in Florida and then back to Upstate NY. We encountered every imaginable type of road and mountainous area east of the Rockies. Not quite the Gauntlet, but many stretches were similar. The truck performed wonderfully. I always felt stable and in control even in strong wind and on the wash-board roads of I 81 in Pennsylvania. We averaged 8.0 MPG for the 4,500 miles and alternated using 87 and 89 octane. I didn't notice any performance difference. GM even provided a TPMS for the trailer tires, and a wireless rear trailer camera that displays directly on the truck's screen. I grappled with Diesel vs Gas, but glad I saved the $10K differential in cost, have easier maintenance and no need for DEF. At times the engine does rev uncomfortable high under load uphill and when entering the highway. When in trailering mode a tap on the brake pedal downshifts to hold speed going down hill. Another tap and there is another downshift and more aggressive "engine braking" going downhill. However, when the engine revs to 4,500 or 5,000 RPM it's a bit disconcerting. I used this many times in the Blue Ridge Mountains. You didn't emphasize this in your review. Not equivalent to a diesel, but it did hold downhill speed and reduced the need to use the brakes on long downhill runs. The gas engine is smooth and quiet, but does need more torque. Looking back, I'd order it again without reservation. Another item . . . I had many comments along the trip. "Great looking truck and 5th wheel set-up, but it's a gasser and a GM product" . . . There's a pervasive mindset that an HD gas truck is a waste of money. Also, brand loyalty snobs are ubiquitous. It pulls my rig safely and reliably, so my "problem" . . . $mile. I neglected to mention that with record summer heat - 90 degrees plus - the 6 speed transmission temp never exceeded 220 degrees on my 4500 mile trip.
I was looking to purchase a srw Denali 3500 gasser for a 13k 42ft fiver which will be towed less than a dozen times per year. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet cause I’m still considering a DRW, but this would also be my every day driver
The $10k savings will be lost in resale value. The diesel will hold its value much better than the gasser. Gas work trucks are essentially throw away at the end of life
@@tylerhunt891only if you’re one of those people who trades-in and finances every two years. If you’re keeping the truck for 10 years, the lesser maintenance and repair costs, and cheaper purchase price will make up for the difference in resale value. Also, GM gassers tend to be less throwaway than Ford and Ram
Yes, the resale for my gasser will be somewhat less than a similar equipped diesel. Ten to fifteen years from now when I'm ready to sell the difference in value will likely be minimal.
Good to see someone have first hand experience the a L8t dually, I’ve been super interested
It’s great you guys are doing RV towing! More of this please!
Thank you for watching.
I’ll second this. Love to see you using more RVs for testing.
Agreed
Love my 24' 2500 LT. I tow campers for my business weekly. Already have 8500 miles on it since April and it pulls like a dream. Fuel economy could be better, but it's not all that bad either. Your test is definitely an extreme that 99.9% of people will never have to do, but Im glad you guys do it. Definitely showed that the 6.6 gasser is a great towing machine on normal roads if it can survive the guantlet.
I decided on the LT version 6.6 gas when I purchased in '21 to save myself the added cost for the diesel and LTZ add-ons. I tow a 12,000lb 5th wheel from Northeast Pennsylvania so my elevations are much less and I'm very happy with the capability and the truck overall. I do wish I had the 10spd though.
Be happy that you have a standard 6 speed. It has a much more predictable shift pattern, will last longer, and be much cheaper to replace if anything ever happens.
@@Lamtitude why will it last longer?
@@vicenteochoa6498 there’s less that can go wrong with it and it’s already been proven to be reliable.
If you ever do it need replaced I bet you could probably slap a 10 speed in it. The computer might need adjusted and maybe some other adapters
@@vicenteochoa6498 6 speed is a much simpler design, less parts, proven design
I recently had a chance to drive a 6.6 gasser with the old 6 speed. I watch all these videos, but you don't fully appreciate it until you experience it. Holy crap was I impressed. That '22 GMC pulled every bit as well as my '99 Cummins used to. I know I'll get hate for that, but it's true.
I have a new 24 GMC AT4 2500 HD 6.6 gas with the 10 spd and it is very similar to my 2004.5 LLY Duramax as far as hp and torque. I have about 91 more HP and only down 46 ft/lb of torque. The LLY Motor for 2004-2006 had 310 HP and 510 ft/lb. The only thing it lacked was a 6spd trans and the larger fuel tank. I sold that in 2018 and bought the new L5P and had nothing but problems. I ditched that in 2023...had so many issues with it, It actually went through the lemon law process it was that bad (that was almost a 2 year process). I got all my money back and ordered the truck I have now and couldn't be happier. My trailer loaded with my 2 seat Can Am is only about 5K lbs so I am still way over as far as the truck I need but I know down the road going to a bigger trailer is not an issue. The last trip I did with my trailer was 727 miles and for the whole trip I got 10 mpg. Not bad.
GM designed the fifth hitch where it is actually behind the rear axle just a bit. What you are missing is that the hitch is still centered in the rear springs because they are longer behind the axle than in front of the axle. That is why you still get the proper weight distribution with the fifth hitch behind the axke but aides in turning clearance.
Great video guys! I help build every type of GM HD trucks with the best people from Local 598 at Flint Assembly, and I enjoy seeing you guys put them through rigorous tests. It’s great to be able to see what our trucks can do, and relay that information back to the folks at work.
Those trucks are garbage
I guess you're not building anything right now, your union is on strike
@@user-uj3zk2cx8t…and yet here you are. Trolling is quite unbecoming and immature 🙄
@@RoadieWingZZ yup here I am. Get over it
Awesome, you'll be building my truck soon. Midnight Edition 2500 LT gasser, do a good job please.
Nothing like starting your weekend with Saturday morning coffee, and the IKE Gauntlet! Thx guys!
Except a Saturday morning beer! 🍺
These 10 speed transmissions run A LOT warmer than what you're traditionally used to. They use a low viscosity fluid that is designed for higher temps. They mostly did this for cold weather performance and fuel economy. For example, without towing, 200F is where my 2018 F-150 with the 10 speed stays during normal driving. So 243 is completely normal, especially when towing. I have also seen multiple videos where Ford and GM engineers say these trucks can get well above 250 and its still safe to tow with
Whoah, that seems really hot.
Can extra coolers be connected to these things?
250°F does seem hot. I know a 550hp Cummins engine in a semi truck maintains around 1,000°F internally. These high temps won't hurt a diesel engine whatsoever, 1,000°F internal temp results in cleaner fuel burn. Normal coolant temperature in a semi is around 180°F
Different 10 speed
Ford is having a much higher failure rate than the other manufacturers for this very reason. They are specifying a higher than optimal operating temperature range for these transmissions.
Articulate, insightful and not cringy or awkward, Kase is the best thing to happen to TFL Studios.
Kase is a great addition. Put of the new talent, he is the best, in my opinion.
I agree....hands down the best of all the new additions.
yeah i dunno about that lol
@@BikerJim74That’s ok.
I went with a high optioned LT gasser when I bought my 22 2500HD. The 6 speed does plenty well for what I need. I just towed our boat and a full short bed of camping gear 800 miles over labor day weekend and it didn't even skip a beat. I've pulled a 7000lb TT with a bed full of gear through the ozark mountains and was still able to accelerate from 55-70 without even breaking a sweat. The gasser makes a great truck for when you don't tow every day but when you do, you need the extra power and payload capacity that just isn't available in a half ton.
Yet you did that at low elevation, now try doing that out west where you get 6% and 10% grades at 10.000 ft elev. I guarantee you'll be begging for a diesel. But yeah it's fine for that piddle ass boat towing. Try towing a 15,000 5th wheel RV anywhere with that truck and see how you like it.
:)😁
@@sdw48erWho GAF? Not all of us "live out west" nor tow and any appreciable elevation. You buy the diesel for 10k extra and deal with all the recurring costs that go along with it.
@@mattwag11 It's tough towing in the mountains in The east too. Like in Tenn. And my 2002 Duramax was never in the shop even one time in 20 years. And so far my 2022 Duramax has never been in the shop either. So I don't know what extra cost you're talking about. But just like He says in the video above they had to slow down to let it cool off, you don't have to do that with a diesel. If it gets hot, you speed up to take the engine to just below redline and it will cool off while driving down the road. Diesel has many advantages over gas engines.
One advantage is they last longer and go many more miles than a gas engine. Second they get better gas mileage.
@@sdw48erI guarantee he won’t be “begging” for a diesel. I’ve towed those grades at elevations during my trips with a 10k pound 5th wheel. It’ll do the work as long as you know how to use your truck.
Edited cause I read your next comment. You have a 2002 diesel bro, a real diesel, not the EPA garbage filled ones. Keep on trucking 🦾🦾🦾
@@slaytanic921 I hate to see the gas mileage towing a grade with that gasser.
Diesels get the same mileage whether you're going 55 or 75. I got ten mpg at 60 mph whether I was going up a 6% grade or flat ground, or 5,000 ft elv. or 10,000 ft elv. That's the advantages of a diesel or gas engine. If gas was better then those several million 18-wheelers would be running gas engines instead of diesel.
One comment about the downhill portion. I own a 2022 2500hd with the 6spd. If you apply the brakes lightly for a time (in tow/haul Mode) the transmission will downshift and reduce your speed. If you apply the brakes like you seem to in the video the reduce your speed quicker the transmission doesn't have time to react. I tow my 39' 5th wheel and use this to slow down the truck on grades etc. It is similar to using the manual shift button without having to shift it into manual. I know its not the gauntlet but it works well on the hills of the northeast.
Thanks for posting this. Is this mentioned anywhere from GM? In the user manual maybe?
Copied from owners Manual, pg. 240;
Tow/Haul Mode Grade Braking
Tow/Haul Mode Grade Braking is only
enabled while the Tow/Haul Mode is
selected and the vehicle is not in the Range
Selection Mode.
Tow/Haul Mode Grade Braking assists in
maintaining desired vehicle speeds when
driving on downhill grades by using the
engine and transmission to slow the vehicle
So if I understand the numbers, this gasser is about $75k with options? Holy moly. 🤯 My 2021 Allison/Duramax was only $71! LTZ, 3500. Cost of new trucks are insane.
Ya. Screw these prices. I picked up a 21 duramax LTZ for 59,000 with 48k on it about 3 months ago. Truck was in excellent condition.
Looked at 2016 duramax 3500 dully. They want 57k for a 7 year old truck coming up on 90k miles. Nuts
@@shanebrown2963wayyyy too many miles on it
Hell cost more than a big rig
At that point might as well just buy a diesel. I know I found one of the new Denali Ultimate recently for around $92 and getting quite a bit fancier truck and you can only get the Duramax in the Ultimate.
Our 2500 had 6.6 gazer has limited engine braking along with the Allison 10 speed. Works well
I own a 24 6.6 gas with gm allison. Pulled 8,000 lb travel trailer 500 miles to beach. Many hills through Tn and Alabama and hardly tell it was behind me
Really good video. Truck is super nice. But the presentation improvement and video quality in general was impressive. The conversation was natural informative and well filmed. Nice job.
In the diesel vs gas debate, the one topic that you havent covered is reliability. And I am talking about the entire truck, but primarily the emissions systems that come with the diesel. I had a cummins powered ram and loved it..... right up to travelling fully loaded in the middle of the night and the middle of the state when the truck gave me the 150 mile countdown because of a DEF problem. I had my entire family and it was a close call on whether I could make it home or not. I learned later that there are parameters that limit the derate so you can make it to your destination. But I didnt know it that night. After a hassle to get it into the dealer, they shrugged their shoulders and said they couldnt find anything wrong. I pay to run platinum DEF to avoid these problems. It didnt matter. The net is full of similar stories where DEF issues ruin vacations etc. That was enough for me, I sold the truck and went back to gas. Coming up on 25K miles with zero issues on the gas rig. Gas is ole reliable at this point. Diesel is running on the ragged edge due to emissions. I would love to see kind of an investigative piece on diesel emissions issues. Does running a diesel truck, with all of the benefits, come with a price beyond what you paid for it??? Inquiring minds want to know.
@xfactor
Thank you for the real world comparison from an owner’s experience!
I agree, I have a 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Crew Cab Long Bed SLE 4x4 6.0l gasser. Truck does great, 50k miles never been in the shop bought it brand new. Just got back from California towed 2 cars on a 36' flat bed gooseneck trailer probably around 16-17k pounds to Colorado went over this exact pass actually, I live in north eastern CO. Truck handled it great other than going 25 mph at the top of the hill but trans stayed cooler around 225 at the top. Even in 110 degree whether through Nevada truck never over heated nor trans.
Don't mistake it, people don't NEED diesels, they want diesels, unless you're really towing 16-17k+ there's no point to them. And you're right emissions systems are complicated and expensive. I can buy a new motor cheaper than someone can buy a new emissions setup. I wouldn't own a diesel unless it was pre-emissions. I do have a 2014 Chevy Cruze 2.0l turbo diesel, tuned deleted and straight piped good car I think 187k miles on it now nothing too major in repairs. But that car will do mid 50's on the highway. At 100 mph it'll get about 33 mpg. Drove that car from Colorado to Kentucky doing 100 mpg basically the entire way because speeding is fun, made good time, 15 hours or so straight never shut it off, only filled up 1 full tank, then a little extra fuel at the end never had an issue never stopped working never over heated. I'd trust that car even pushing 200k miles to drive to Europe and back if they made a bridge long enough. I'm not a diesel hater I just won't drive anything with emissions. Also have a 92 2.4l turbo diesel Hilux Surf, right hand drive pretty cool had EGR, that was deleted even.
Mine left the dealer lot, crossed the street , went through an immediate weight reduction, zero issues, immediate mpg and tq increase, and done safely. Oohhh and the dealer 3 months later paid me mad cash for some of the emission components for another customers broken down pos, long as I bring it to them there was never a warranty issue on the truck.
My next truck will be deleted before the plastic come off the seats.
@panthermartin7784 I'm not anti delete don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't bet on being able to keep a deleted truck around for the next 10 years. You'll be spending a lot of money on getting everything put back on lol. That's an expensive way to go.
Just delete it and all the problems go away.
We run all 6.6L gassers for our service body fleet. Our trucks never tow but they take a lot of payload. The engine is simple and torquey. Unless you need to max tough, hard to justify the diesel costs.
I bought a 2024 2500 gasser. Coming from a diesel, this makes more sense for me now. I only tow a 9500 pound camper 3 to 4 times a year on vacation and it does it very easily. The diesel will always beat out the gasser, but for me it didn’t make sense to pay the up charge plus all the additional maintenance of a diesel just to tow a few times a year. So this is all situational.
Exactly my situation, sold my 2019 High Country Duramax, have a 2024 Midnight edition gasser on order as we speak. Can't wait to get it. Regens drove me nuts as I daily drive and tow a handful of times a year. Just couldn't justify the diesel not to mention diesels don't like short trips.
@@mattwag11 I love the 19 body style and seats. Your '24 seats are smaller and much much harder. I sold my 20 Denali 2500 due to the shit seats. Not sure why GM wont make a better seat
I’ve read all the comments on this entire thread. This comment sums it all up perfectly for me.
Thanks for the video! Everyone was asking for the new GM 10 Spd Diesel versus gas on the 2024. I think this video is a great comparison and speaks for itself. This was the video we all waited for 💪🏼
Great show guys, seeing you two traveling that stretch of highway brought back memories of me on that same stretch way back in the early 80's driving a 1975 4 door dually, 454 4 speed 410 gears, pulling a 35' single wheel three axle trailer, I dont remember the gvw etc. but I do know I ran 26,000lb plates and I always meet or exceeded that weight every run, I dont remember fuel mileage being quite as bad as yours, but my memory well that's another story, and I never timed any uphill runs even though I'm sure yours is faster, but as I look back I wasn't in that big of a hurry and was grateful to make it to the top. Thanks TFL
Got to love those old 454s they may not have been fast but they got the job done
Next you guys should test the 7.3 Ford and the 6.4 Hemi with the same trailer weight (or as close as you can get for those trucks' respective ratings).
Please!! Do it!!
They did run those trucks up the Ike already earlier this year. I won't spoil the results for you but I'll tell you that the Ford is a beautiful blue color, and the Ram I believe was grey. I know the Ford they were towing a horse trailer that was about 2k lbs heavier. I believe the Ram had the same trailer.
Had a 2020 hemi ram bighorn crew 4x4 that claims to tow 11,750 with the 5.7L Hemi and I believe it will easily start the load rolling because of the gearing in the 8 Speed transmission and the 3.9x gear ratio, but I am not sure the temperatures of the transmission or the engine could handle it without modifications.
@@B.V.LuminousSeems relevant.
Transmission temps is why I installed the missing transmission cooler on my '19 Tundra that for some reason Toyota decided to remove. I just towed all of my stuff in a cargo trailer to Alaska and didn't want to toast the transmission in the middle of nowhere in Canada on the way. Even still I saw pan temps in the 220's and TC temps in the 250's on some of the climbs on the Alcan. Can't imagine what they would have been without the cooler.
The transmission temp isn’t an issue. Remember the Ford engineer said the transmission can run at 250 all day and GM and Ford use the same transmission.
It's not quite the same transmission. As I understand the light duty 10 speeds were co-developed, and share considerable parts, but the heavy duty transmissions each manufacturer took that knowledge and went off to develop their own. I think a few teardown videos have shown some quite different internal workings between them.
Ford transmissions built much stronger there a video comparing ford and chevyt
The 6.6 gasser with the Allison transmission will likely be a good fit for lots of towing needs. The nearly $10K in savings over the diesel is significant.
I can't help but think though that a Duramax engine would last much longer than a gas engine, as diesels usually do, therefore making it well worth it in the long run. Then again how many people do 600k+ miles
The only thing Allison is the spelling the emblem.
@@GlobbsThe engine is only one variable in a modern diesel power train…
You should buy the diesel if you are towing this heavy very often. Not like most people that have a diesel and tow a couple times a year with their 5k lbs boat or camper.
Also you have to consider how long you will be keeping the truck.. remember after the warranty expires diesel engines are stupid expensive to repair. You can usually replace the entire gas engine for what it costs to do just some fairly minor work on a diesel.
Yeah I once knew a chick who's husband went out and bought a big F250 to tow his... bass boat. Like, bro. A 4Runner could tow that boat.
Great video, TFL team. Love the truck and the awesome testing you guys do in the mountains of Colorado, my backyard.
I’m hoping to own a Silverado HD here soon. My plans with it, towing heavy trailers across the country, definitely the Duramax 3500 dually is the best option. Towing and hauling light loads for shorter distances, gasser is a good option as well. Duramax is my favorite, but I do have a soft spot for the gasser.
Great job, as always, Chevrolet.
Good video.... I'm so glad my 2018 L5P with 146,000 is paid for.
So for everyone saying the 10 speeds in the Silverado is the same as the Ford 10 speed…
It was in fact a joint venture between Allison and Ford; however, other than the bell housing, they are totally different.
Ford outsourced all of their internals to the lowest bidder, Allison kept them in house.
The clutch mount bolts in the Ford were made by a different company than the one who made the clutch mounts. The bolts are a bit too small, so the excessive clunking in the Ford correlates to this flaw, causing the loud clunking and thumping sound.
I have learned all kinds of info about this from Ford dealers as I have a 2022 F 250 Godzilla currently getting its second transmission in 29,000 miles!
Great test guys!!
I think this really shows how tough this test actually is.
Also, if you don’t tow heavy on a weekly basis, I would 100% choose the gas. On the other hand, the diesels have the most problems when you’re just putting around town, so if you buy a diesel, make sure you work it hard.
Diesels are made to work long hard miles. Short light hauls are very hard on a diesel. For example driving to work a few miles every day without a trailer
Exactly. One of my subs has a newer Duramax and has a CEL on because he doesn’t tow with the truck. Dealer told him the same thing. The diesel is built to work and needs to be pushed in order to perform. Driving unloaded around town is NOT good for them.
The height of this trailer cannot be ignored when looking at the MPG. For example a heavy for my F-150 TT that had a tall wall front pulled so much different on the highway vs a more aerodynamic TT. Around town where there was little aerodynamic effect and that heavy flat front trailer towed with ease. Unless climbing hilly, towing tall/heavy and doing this regularly I would save your money and go gas. Great test!
Ive had both the 6.6 gas and the 6.6 duramax in a Chevy 2500 that tows a lot and even in Texas, towing 14,000lbs frequently, the gas engine just didnt cut it. Its ok for an occasional tow with that much weight as itll get you where you need to go but its really weak when getting up to speed on the highway. I dont regret switching back to a deisel at all.
I work/daily drive the 2024 GMC 2500hd pro version of this truck with about an additional 1000lbs including my tools and a lift gate and have to say in the last month this truck has been pretty solid. the mountains haven't been to troublesome at all my only real complaint has been with mpg. But honestly solid motor/transmission combo for a work truck
Please do the 100 mile loop MPG test with this truck unladen.
Kase and Andre make a great team with these videos. The best duo in my opinion. Well done.
The biggest problem with using a gas engine to pull one of these trailers is trying to get gas at a station in a sea if cars all around you and how close the pumps are together. It’s much easier to go to a truck stop where it’s designed for long trailers.
Most truck stops have RV lanes now and usually the regular car gas lanes are much larger at truck stops. I just avoid regular gas stations and never have any issues
Bingo! This is exactly right. I was, frankly, a little disappointed in this performance, and the "economy". I expected more. Would have hated to see the transmission temps if the truck had been loaded to its max rated towing weight! I suspect that Andre would have pulled off the road to cool it down, which is a fail to me. I do wonder what Allison thinks of this design that they left to Ford/GM to do and rubber-stamped it (OK, not exactly, but it's not a true Allison)
Good point
2.5 things:
First, If possible, do a second test with a 30ft Travel Trailer and see how it does/compares.
Second, I wish they would force induct the gas engine to get a better comparison to the diesels. There was a time when the diesel was not turbo charged. That would make it more apples-to-apples comparison.
Keep up the great content, I enjoy it!
Good comparison guys. I’m glad I got the 2024 GMC Sierra diesel. We are headed to Colorado next week.
With the extreme expense of both the diesel engine up charge, the fuel costs and the extra costs of diesel maintenance, no matter how more efficient they are it becomes harder and harder to justify buying one…unless you tow and tow heavy and often like once or twice a week, it doesn’t appear to make financial sense to spend 70-80k for even a basic spec diesel truck
Yes if you are buying a truck to keep forever diesel makes no since, even given the longevity…. Which is less and less real these days.
Even if a diesel lives longer than a gas (which is no longer the given it used to be) it’s gonna take a helluva lot more money to achieve.
If you cycle into a new truck Avery couple years and can afford the initial ante of the extra cost, sure the diesel makes sense. You’ll carry your ante forward with each exchange, and get most of it back when you get off the ride.
@upshifter5316 I have a shop and have repaired several diesels with 200k miles or a little less that needed repairs that were more than gasoline crate motor would cost. I'm not counting diesel fuel system repairs for water or DEF poisoning. I don't see the HD gas motor trucks with issues at 200k. No track record on the GM 6.6 at 200k that I've serviced. I have counseled countless customers that don't tow to get gasoline next time. Some listen and they usually drop to 1/2 tons.
That’s almost price for a base model lol
Except you get all that up charge back when you sell or trade the truck, the diesel has almost double the warranty of the gas engines, and the diesel can do more and do everything better.
@@jimmyaber5920 My work has a fleet of ~20 F550s, we had 2 gas trucks and the rest were diesel. Management thought we didn't need the cost of the diesel.
Anyway the two gassers are both on engine number 3 at roughly 5000 engine hours. 2022 model year trucks. Lifters fail and kill them every time. We have diesel F550s from 2011 that are still on the original engine coming up on 20k hours.
If you work these trucks hard the gassers die.
Finally GM matches the 8.1 2003 truck! But my trans ran 150....
GM could have made a. Functional air scoop for the gas like a cold air in take
Andre is awesome, per usual!
Absolutely love your gauntlet Andre! Your partner did amazing also, thank you for your information and incredible personality. You are the reason I watch the channel
A great video on basically reaffirming that you need to pick the right tool for the job that you need done. It would have great to see a break even analysis between the gas vs diesel for a few different scenarios. Frequent, long drives, and high elevation will always lend itself to having a diesel for better performance but there are probably use cases where it makes negligible differences.
Their is no break even with the diesel. I’ve talked to fleet operators and they tell me that the diesel costs more to buy, own and operate and you don’t get it back on resale. (10k to buy 6k back on resale). You buy the diesel for just one reason. You want or need the power. There is no economic argument for a diesel.
If you want to tow 50% of the rated tow rating you should just get a diesel or something bigger. Sure on the flats you might be fine, but hit a mountain and you will be staring at the gauges, who wants to do that on vacation?
@@atodaso1668 I mean I have a 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Crew Cab Long Bed SLE 4x4 6.0l gasser, towed a 36' Gooseneck Lamar flat bed trailer, duel dually axles on it here from Colorado to California about 1k miles, picked up 2 cars that are probably about 5k a piece, so combined weight I'd imagine is at least 16 or 17k pounds maybe even pushing 18k, trucks only rated for 13.7k. Drove it back home no issues another 1k miles went over this same pass in the video trans only hit 225 at the peak before the tunnel but I was keeping it reasonable wasn't trying to push the truck that much. Trucks at 50k miles handled it no problem even at 110 degrees towing that weight outside Vegas it never over heated. Flat ground the trans was running 160-180 typically. I can replace my motor and my transmission for cheaper than you can replace the emissions system on a diesel, and I'd have a new trans and motor for another 300k miles lol.
Then again my truck runs everything Amsoil, front and rear dif, transfer case, transmission, engine oil and coolant is all Amsoil, only liquid that's not Amsoil is brake fluid. So maybe that just makes everything more efficient. I'd never roast my trans to 240+ degrees I really try not to get much over 220. Even with my similar 36' 2005 Montana Fifth wheel gvwr on that is 14.3k usually loaded around the 12-13k pound range I've gone over the pass and never hit over the 220s. I don't think GM did a very good job with this truck or they were just pushing it too hard, either way if you wanted to tow heavy with it in extreme conditions like that a couple hundred bucks in an external trans cooler would be a wise upgrade.
Diesels are great, love them, but unless you live in a place with no emissions I'd never own a modern diesel really just not worth the head ache. Replace a 3 and 5 and 6k dollar part every couple years you'll wish you had a gas truck. And the Governments not going to get any les strict on that stuff, if I bought a new truck in 2023 I'd want it to last 20 years to justify the cost, that's 2043, everything's going to be electric by that point or something else and there's going to be no more deleting most likely, that's just how it goes. 2003 we didn't even have emissions, 2023 we have them and can kinda silently delete them, 2043 you'll either be in electric or forced to keep emissions systems going and that's an expensive battle.
Nice book, I read the first couple sentences. I got as far as you were staring at the gauges lol @@dedalliance1
@ 17:10 (Duramax / 10-speed) 8 min, 6 sec & 3.6 mpg (but it's a different trailer than the other two tests)
@ 17:45 (2020 6.6 gas / 6-speed) 11 min, 53 sec & 2.4 mpg
@ 23:50 (2024 6.6 gas / 10-speed) 10 min, 4 sec & 2.3 mpg (but they said it would have been under 10 min if a truck had not been in their way)
Absolutely love this channel!
Ventilated seats are an absolute must have for long hauls in the increasingly hot temperatures across the USA nowadays. It's only going to get worse, so COOLED and Ventilated seats are actually needed, and should be made available in every trim level. When it's over 100F and you have to cross Texas, they make life better.
Awesome.. Case rocking the Ike! Well done young man!
Thanks for the comparison. I love my Duramax. It would be very difficult to go back to gas.
I have a 6.7 Cummins in a 2022 Ram 2500 (G56 manual and 3.73 gears) and a 2022 F-250 Tremor with the 7.3 Godzilla. I have absolutely no issues with either one of them towing my 9000 lb travel trailer (just used the Tremor to tow the trailer from North Dakota to Sacramento) and averaged about the same fuel economy. Going down even the steepest mountain passes I never had to touch the brakes because the 10 speed would down shift keeping me at the speed I had the cruise control set at.
@@dundonrl, Ram hasn’t offered the G56 since the 2018 models, so unless you did a complete swap (doubtful), you’re not being truthful.
@@CornFed_3 Whoops.. meant 2012, sorry..
This was the video I needed. Just bought a 2023 2500 HD Gasser w/ the 6 speed and was concerned about towing a future 5th wheel but half the weight of the one you tested. This made me feel better about my purchase. I still love deisels though :)
You only need as much truck as you intend on towing. Not everyone needs a diesel. That comes from a 40 yr diesel mech.
@@lawrencefiebig2033 appreciate the comment. thank you
I plan on getting a Sierra Denali 3500 to tow a 13,000 pound trailer that’s 42 feet long
The Diablo motor! 6.6 engine with 6 brake applications.
hahaha !!😂... 👹👺
Or maybe call it the “Beast Mark” or just “The Beast”…😂
I own an 22 model 2500 LT8 gas truck and pull a tandem axle trailer with a Polaris 1000xp heavy lifted and hunting gear to Ohio from NC multiple times a year! My buddy has f350 6.7 pulling same load and our fuel mileage is same. We pull mountains most of the 9 hr trip and although not super heavy weight the gasser will service most weekend warriors camping, pulling equipment etc under most conditions.
Nice review… for a non-forced induction engine. That’s very respectable.
And much faster than the previous generation truck.
You guys need to manually hold the gears when driving downhill. Guaranteed you could do that whole downhill drive without a single brake application if you just put the gear shifter in L and used the + - buttons to hold the trucks speed below 60.
Great content as always! Love to see you go back to Ike with a Ford Superduty 7.3L and see how it would do with same trailer and weight - Regardless - I have a 3619 ATC and a 2022 F-350 Tremor 6.7L with 10 speed and that is a great combination - I also run a GenY 5" offset ball moving hitch back like GM does and swapped the 5er out for a Reese Goosebox 20k - which is an amazing towing combo. In addition my truck has 37.5x12.5x18 tires, Carli E-Venture suspension, full spring pack, air bags and 60 gallon S&B tank and to me it makes for the ultimate on/off/tow rig - I have over 600 miles of tow range with the S&B - that is my favorite upgrade! Thanks for the great information flow!
That’s the truck and lift I want. What kinda mileage are you getting towing and not towing on 37’s?
I tow a 14,400 lbs , 37 ft. 5th wheel for 15 years with a 2002 Silverado Duramax long bed, single axle. Never had the wind push me anywhere. And we were carrying cargo that put us a 16,000 lbs. But I ran Royal Purple in the eng. Royal purple in the transmission, Royal Purple in the rear differencial.
Never had a problem in 20 years of owning that truck. Traded it in on a 2022 Silverado crew-cab, long-bed, Duramax, dually, and love it. Btw I have to say that my 02 was not stock. KN air cleaner, Magnaflow Exaust, and Edge Atitude with juice programer that I ran in tow mowed giving me 40 extral hp, and 125 more llbs of torqure. Climbed 11,000 ft. 6% grade pass at 55 mph. towing that load with no problems. I would never use a gas eng for towing in the mountains because of the terrible gas miles and lack of hp at high elevation. If you own a Duramax long enough, you'll pay for it with the gas mileage savings.
How ever, and this is my experience with my 2015 duramax. The cost of my brake downs, with all sync. lube included, far outway the price of the gas extra. Nox sensors def heaters, glow plugs, no one gets away from eventual replacement of these. Great vid. Towing all the time, yep diesel. Reg. everyday use, gas.
that was a great comparrison especially with the historical data from the other trucks too!
@TFLtruck You need to find a 7.3L Godzilla w/ 10spd and pull this SAME trailer & weight up the IKE (same ambient temperatures) for a real world comparison for those comparing the GM 6.6L L8T w/ 10L1000 'Allison' to the 7.3L Godzilla w/ 10R140. The previous 7.3L tested trailer had very low wind resistance compared to the trailer tested here.
I have a 2024 and I know my camper is only 7000 lbs but the highest temperature I’ve seen on my transmission is 186 degrees and that was in in hills of Arkansas some 7% grades.
Great video and very entertaining. Not all that relevant for me as I tow a 6,900 lb bumper pull trailer with a Silverado 1500 5.3. Still fun to see how the bigger trucks with a huge load do it. For what it is worth, my truck and trailer work great! I use a Weigh Safe WDH and it literally tows like it is on rails, as some might say. The truck is all stock. No cold air, no Borla exhaust (although they sound great). Typically three people and tools, etc., in the back. Near max payload but well within max towing capacity. Very pleased with my third 5.3 even after three 6.2 Escalades.
I had a 2000 Silverado with the 5.3. Towed a 6000lb TT up over 200,000 miles and it still ran like a top. Traded it in on a 2500 HD Duramax when the rear hard brake line burst under the cab. Loved that truck! I hated to get rid of it but wanted more truck and don’t have the space to store an extra truck.
Love ya kase great adventure bud. I’m proud of you.
I have a little overkill. I pull a 28’ toy hauler with a 2020 6.6,Duramax Denali HD and love it. It’s like pulling a pop up camper. There’s just me and the wife and we don’t have a need to pull a house behind us. We just load up the bike and go. The fuel mileage is wonderful compared to what I was getting with the 6.0 2018 Chev 2500 Gas.
Case needs a cowboy hat. He can be the mini Mr. TrucK
Kase wearing a cowboy hat would be...well, kinda hard to picture! I'm actually surprised to see him wearing a ball cap. That's not usually his style.
Andre is the Slavic Mr Truck
Just went through two 68rfe transmisions in the last two years. I love driving my diesel trucks and have been for the last 6 years. But with the current EPA standards forcing manufacturers to use performance and reliability degrading components (EGR, DPF, DEF) and Ram trucks being the sole hosts for the Cummins engine and the fact that they refuse to either fix or get rid of their trash 68RFE transmission. Im seriously considering a gasser, Im only pulling about 5k pounds so any half-ton truck is good to go, also with the light off-roading that I do, the responsiveness of a gas powered truck will be much welcome.
And I wholeheartedly believe the 6 speed does grade shifting better than the new 10 speed does.
Agreed
I agree also.
If you are out driving the highways all the time yes get the diesel but if are only towing 5-6 times a year then get the gaser. I have seen so many disappointed diesel owners with all 3 big boys because they just don't put enough highway miles on and the emissions system just gets clogged all the time. As far as the cost of the extra 10 thou for the motor extra maintenance and higher price for fuel over gas it will take you a minimum of 8 years to reap the cost-benefit of the diesel motor
This is exactly right, I had a diesel prior to my new truck, which is the gas 2500, and the cost of the diesel outweighs the benefits if you're not towing often enough.
Mr truck has lost so much weight he looks so much younger!
I know , he looked almost like a teenager riding shotgun with andre
Bah ha ha
Dont forget the diesel part where your def tank heater goes out in the winter and your truck doesn't start so you tow it, and then you get it fixed and a month later the DPF is clogged and you are limited to 25mph max speed :)
@@ParkerPochant they have two. It’s happened to me twice. Still starts and runs, just has a code/light.
It depends how long are you plan to keep it. Diesel is heavy ($9500 option) but the exhaust braking will come in handy
In their June 10, 2017 video ("2017 Chevy Silverado HD 2500 Takes on the Super Ike Gauntlet"), the 2500HD/L96 6.0L gas engine managed to pull a 13.5k lb trailer (although it had a lot less frontal area than the trailer in this test) in 10 min, 21 sec.
82 miles on a 36 gallon tank at 2.3 mpg. Luckily gas stations are not to far apart in Colorado
This hill is 8 miles, after you get to the top it is 50 miles to Denver all down hill getting 20+ mpg
It all depends on how often you tow, how heavy you tow, how far you tow, and conditions you tow in. Towing heavy, thru the mountains, you have to buy a diesel. But if you are a contractor hauling a few miles across town, even if heavy, you can do gas, especially if you are empty or small payload the rest of the time.
I'd definitely go with the gas. A little slower and less efficient up the side of a mountain. Saves you $10k up front, don't have to find diesel or Urea, don't have to worry about extreme low temps, don't have to worry about a $5k filter...
Diesels are incredibly impractical for most people. They have their purposes which are towing ultra heavy and towing ultra heavy at high elevation. Everything else though, gas engine is the way to go.
Guys, I have been using gaser's for years towing heavy. What I do is downshift the transmission, which will use the engine to slow you down on downhill runs. The gas engine can be used to slow down the truck, and does not cause any problems with brake fade. You just need to watch your RPM's.
It must have been running with the torque converter unlocked that whole run with the pedal floored to build up that much heat.
As many gears as these newer vehicles have, I see no functional reason to not lock the torque converter while climbing for better efficiency and lower temps. The only reason I can think of that they perhaps don't is if the torque converter clutch can't handle the engine's full torque output.
In the 6 speed days it locked at the top of each gear and full lock at 45 which is nice to towing heavy at low speed aka hauling hay or anhydrous wagons and seed tenders they thought of the farmers and construction workers 10 years ago
No it's due to low line pressures on the 10 speed Allison. This is trans slip 'as designed' per GM.
Back in 2020, TFL did the Ike with the new 2020 F-250 with the 7.3L gasser. It crushed this new Silverado. It towed a 16,000lb 40FT horse trailer and did it in 8 min 42 sec.
Great video and great truck, I love the 6.6 gas 10 speed. I put a set of timbrens on my Chevy 2500 HD, they really helped with the squat for a gas burner. I would say it did better than what the 3.75 stars y’all gave it I would go higher.
Timbrens help with a load but they’re a double-whammy when empty. 😣
@@dguileynot really, empty I have roughly 3/4” of gap.
@@dguileya better solution would be a rear active suspension setup that only assists under load
@@dguiley put spacer’s on it made a difference
@@dboatright2497 The better option is just buy the 1 ton gas truck. They don't ride any worse, mine has 4k pounds of payload more than anyone would ever need.
Have had my 2024 2500LT for one year this month. Went with gas as figured enough for my 7500lb travel trailer. Has been great with exception of rough 7-8 upshift that dealer says has no solution for. LT with safety and trailering options is the best bang for $ in my opinion. Went with gas as can fill up anywhere and not anywhere close to max load in my usage.
Great review Case and Andre!!!
I think if you're towing over 10k lbs regularly, especially in terrain like this, just get a diesel. I have a 2024 gasser Sierra 3500, and towing my 27' travel trailer this summer over one 25-mile stretch with a 4,000' elevation gain the max transmission temp I saw was 203 with an outside temp of 100, so I was happy with that!
Should do a similar test with All three of the big diesels but loaded up to 35,000 pounds.
Do you tow 35,000 pounds?
@@screddot7074not normally. Normally I’m right around 16-20 with a 6.7 Cummins . But if it can handle 35k mostly safely then 20 will be super safe.
I also tow about 6k all the time with an old 5.4 ram 250 gasser from 91
Ford is untouchable, Cummins is the slowest and the loudest.
yes ford has the edge at least on paper at the moment, Ram/cummins will come out with something in the next couple years that will match and or beat. and the staight 6 has more low end torque, and tends to be more reliable for people who haul long distances all the time. @@sultangris8063
@@sultangris8063that new Duramax is up there with the Ford. They’re both impressive.
I dont see an oil temp. But you guys are slowly getting better and pointing out the gauges. Lets face it, we really dont care much about anything else if we are destroying anything. So we REALY REALLY REALLY REALLY want all the temp information on all the tests from here on out, wrote on paper and tracked. THANK YOU
GM you need to 4:10 gear the 6.6 gasser. It is lugging too much with the tall 3:73.
I would like to see the f150 2.7 turbo v6 vs Chevy Silverado 2.7 turbo four cylinder towing test !!! Great video
Kayce and Andrea do the best videos great duo! 👍
Call it the Oil Burner! I have one and since it was new it burns oil like crazy. Seems like something all new Gas engine are doing.
How many brake pads can you buy, for $9000.00?
About 10 brake jobs front and rear
In the real world wouldn’t you manually lock out the higher gears and make the transmission work for you on the down hill vs waiting for the computer to figure it out and down shift ??
I don’t tow much, or heavy or the Ike gauntlet so just curious? I know it’s a test but in theory could you manually get that brake application down (obviously respecting trans temp and RPM’s)
Not only that but with interest, you are paying more than 9k
I believe they do it this way to remove any driver skill input. This show cases the vehicle’s capabilities not the drivers and allows for better comparison of the vehicles.
@brians.1357 I manually shift my gas auto tranny I like to be in control of it.
Should definitely be said this is absolutely a stress test for a gas truck like this big time
Torque isn't the whole story, but I'm still astonished at how even the first gen 3.0 duramax is making the same torque as this 6.6 gasser. I think it would be cool to see a slightly bigger version of the inline 6 duramax shoved into a 2500 chassis. I love my 1500 LM2, but I would 100% upgrade to a slightly bigger version.
Big gas V8s are stupid in heavy towing applications and I'll never be convinced otherwise. There's a reason big rigs run large-displacement inline six diesels.
It isn’t hard to understand. This engine (and other HD gas v8s) are much more reliable and simpler than the 3.0 duramax, have no turbos, and have less maintenance costs. Most people that buy HD trucks buy them for payload, not for towing super heavy trailers constantly. If they did, they’d buy the diesel. But for occasional heavy towing they do great, with no def or emissions garbage and WAY cheaper running costs and purchase price. I have a new Godzilla with 4.30 gears. I towed a dump trailer with crushed limestone weighing a total of 11-12,000 pounds back and forth from my house and the gravel pit. It did excellent and moved the load great.
@@theglowcloud2215 Big rigs used to also be gas engines, and there's a reason that 18 and 22 speed transmissions exist. Diesel tech really didn't start taking off until the 90s and early 2000's. Gas engines do just fine you just have to be patient and don't expect to do 80 mph up 7% grades because that's stupid.
@@theglowcloud2215 I’d say big gas engines are stupid in “often, long distance” heavy towing. I pull trailers weighing up to 15,000 pounds with my Godzilla and it does awesome, but I don’t pull them on 1,000 mile trips or up the Ike Guantlet. Right tool for the right job.
A 5.2l straight 6 turbo. About 400hp and 700ft lb.
That’s all that’s needed. Don’t need 500hp/1050tq.
With a 10 speed transmission the ten speed Gas should have the Option to get 4:10’s & 4:30’s I had 4:30 gears in my tundra with a 6 speed transmission it only turned 2300 Rpm @ 80 mph and still got 17/18 on the highway
The diesel costs $9500 more than the 6.6 gasser. You can buy a lot of fuel for that. No more often than most people are going to tow a max trailer load over the the Ike, the gasser will do fine. Or maybe spend about $5000 of those dollars and put a turbo system on the 6.6L gasser, then you wouldn't have to buzz the engine at 5000 rpm all the way up the hill.
Or maybe don’t rev the engine so high trying to race up the mountain and just take you time and downshift the trans and pull the hill at slower speeds and save your money.
@@callofdutyguy9 They were only doing 45 mph up the hill and still had to rev the engine at 4800 rpm. If they did what you say, they would have been in the slow lane with the semis doing 30 mph.
@@andyharman3022 if it’s ok for a semi with double digit liter Turbo diesel to do 30mph. Why should a significantly smaller and lighter duty vehicle have to go any faster?
I studied trucks for a year I wanted more luxury, and gas I had diesel in the past cannot justify that extra 9500 to 10,000 dollars for a diesel truck that most campers only pull about 7-8 times a year. I’m all over my gas 2024 Chevy 2500 Z71 LTZ love it. Her name is The Beast
This kid seems pretty sharp. I like him much better than Roman or Tommy for truck stuff.