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In a previous life, I was an auto elec. One year, I worked for two customers who were preparing for long caravan trips of over 3 months. One couple had a lightweight European van, and the other bought a house on wheels, complete with washing machine. Some time later, they returned home and popped into the workshop for maintenance work. The couple with the lightweight van (towed with an ancient Mazda Ute) reported a brilliant holiday up the Eastern side of our wonderful country. The other couple restricted themselves to day trips out from caravan sites - because the caravan was simply too much of a pain in the arse to move about the place. Lesson learned! Keep the videos coming, John. Great work!
I did a trip up to Qld last weekend, from Sydney every 4th or 5 vehicle had a fucking caravan or a camper at the back! Now here is the rub! Why Arnt they under the same regulations as trucks? As far as 100 kms per hour and they should be restricted to the left lanes as trucks are in certain places? also, they don't have restrictions on driving hours, and they should have. To fill in logbooks
@@kevinduffy6712 They should bring in a regulation (law) that your are required to provide a weighbridge ticket if pulled over by the police when towing a caravan or large boat.
@Auto Expert John Cadogan, while I understand why you said that the vehicle's payload is the most constrained aspect of the loading while towing, there's actually something that's often even more constrained: the rear axle load rating (affectionately known as rear GAWR - rear Gross Axle Weight Rating). It can be a bit difficult to find the front and rear GAWRs these days, but for those who can find them, it's a good idea to do some calculations to make the situation look even more dire. Find the towball weight, then multiply it to account for leverage that unloads the front axle and inconveniently adds it to the rear axle. For an average modern 4X4 wagon, a 3500kg trailer with 350kg ball weight will end up loading the rear axle between 500kg and 520kg. Even when towing with the vehicle otherwise unladen, the rear axle on many vehicles will be so close to its GAWR that it's a good idea for the driver to go on a diet for a few weeks before towing with the maximum permitted ball weight. After all, considering where the driver's torso is in the car, around half of the driver's mass will be taken by the rear axle (give or take a bit). Unless the trailer is balanced well enough to reduce the ball load to, say, 5% of the ATM, a weight distribution hitch is absolutely necessary for most 4X4s with such a heavy trailer. However, that comes with extra risk of cracking the vehicle's chassis and/or that of the trailer. If my calculations are correct, most vehicles will hit the rear GAWR before they reach the GVM or GCM, but this extremely important aspect of towing mass calculation is neglected by nearly all but professional truck drivers.
Just completed 21,000 km towing a 3t caravan with a NW Pajero. Picked it up for $27K with 90,000 km on it. Spent $4K on Lovells suspension upgrade in SA, which made it legal to tow 3t with 300 kg ball weight. Absolutely no issues whatsoever. Great fuel economy sitting in 4th and doing 95 km on the open roads.
John, I write as a British, former shed-dragger, or owner of an acoustically transparent shittoir as you so eloquently call them. Having seen the light and now no longer crapping in a small cupboard, may I say how bloody funny you are? Once again, you are firing on all eight cylinders when it comes to sarcasm (and motoring knowledge). Keep up the good work
If you don't mind an older style vehicle try a Gen 4 Pajero. They shoulder the tow weight well (2500 kg with 250 kg ball load) or (3000 kg with 180 kg ball load). In addition they have a high payload capacity of 775 kg. We old boys love them.
I was test driving a Volvo FM yesterday. 500 horses + 90t payload, you could even tow two of those dreaded vans. Seriously though, not enough people understand vehicle weights, and your doing a great job promoting it. I would suggest just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, try a smaller van or a vehicle that can.
John, I like the irony in the way you heap scorn on toilets in caravans as a distasteful way of carrying treated effluent but don’t mind sleeping within a few feet of a toilet as you do in nearly every hotel/motel I have ever stayed in and just like a caravan you can hear everything your partner or child is doing while using it. Granted the effluent isn’t carried in a sealed container with chemicals that render it almost inert as it is in a caravan. If of course but you are on an upper storey of a motel it’s a lot less convenient than a caravan to just step outside and or air the van for a few minutes. Of course most caravans parks have a toilet block so you don’t even have to use the toilet in the van other than emergencies. I am even willing to bet if you have an ensuite in your bedroom at home it is within a couple of metres of where you sleep all night long with nothing but a 40mm wooden door between yourself and your also quite acoustic port of ablution. I haven’t even mentioned what a cesspool of previous tenants pathogens are waiting for you in each motel room you stay in regardless of how well they are cleaned between occupants. Then there is the lovely air you get to share with a possibly a few hundred other people as the air conditioning pumps more airborne viruses, bacteria, skin particles, hair etc around the hotel for you to breathe, bathe and bonk in. As for the mattresses, let’s just say one ultraviolet light and you have a Jackson Pollock painting, regardless of how much the room costs per night and you know what dust mites prefer to eat. But.. there is room service. Ps I don’t own a van but I have done a lot of camping and staying in both upmarket and cheap motels. Something to be said for isolation, good views and not having hundreds of people sleeping within a few feet of you.
I've had 4 caravans and towed for at least 50,000 klms, always thinking about the poor bastards sharing beds and shithouse after many others. Seems to me that they are jealous.
The LR4 is better at heavy towing than anything else Ive tried up to light trucks. Stability, wheelbase , weight, electronics, handling, 600nm torque, twin turbo. It did win tow car of the year for a decade. Reliability is not an issue in mine.
Nice Video John I drive a 100 Series Landcruiser and a 2016 Hilux twincab, I also tow a 2.5T caravan. Quite frankly, towing the caravan with the Hilux scares me.
For the sake of telling you something you already no doubt know, the mine field of weights goes so much further than discussed. A friend of mine has a 200 series land cruiser as a police vehicle (obviously regional) To get that vehicle across the compliance line, it can be fitted with a bull bar but no winch. Reason being, once fully loaded (i.e 5 occupants and gear) it would exceed the rated loading on the front axle.
Hello John just booked an I30 in for a couple of possible warrenty issues to our local dealership. Told by local dealership workshop that two issues would be two diagnostic fees at $160 each. The local service department is nothing more than an extorsion racket. And they are getting progressively worse.
At Kerb Weight, Prado carries 150 litres of diesel compared with Pajero Sport's 68 litres. An extra 82 litres of fuel safely stowed and weighing around 70kg. That more than makes up for the 60 kg reduced payload over the PS. I'd prefer not to have 4 jerry cans in the back to achieve parity.
Go the ford, cheap and easy to fix! I've owned a 2010 Falcon and surprising to me, has given me next to no problems at all. I'm no Ford lover, but my advice for ongevity is to be sure to service it regulary, maybe more often than required including replacing things more often than required like filters and oils and lubricants as well as replace parts as soon as they show singns of wear. Don't push it and think it will go another 5k km before changing a part as Fords a generally cheaper becuase they are made cheaper and thats where you'll get problems.
A snapped crankshaft is likely to spoil your morning in the ranger. easy to fix on the side of the road at least. Buy a late model 200 series land cruiser, or a 70 series. Its lack of comfort should keep the speed under control. The biggest point I suggest is to drive at a reasonable speed. I was asked how I drive in the snow (in Switzerland, 120k's each way all white roads, each week) answer was "slowly".
Thanks for bringing up the topic of overhang John. When I bought my Triton MR I looked for a towbar that minimised the overhang so as to improve the handling/dynamics while towing, but without success. I removed the rear bumper and purchased a Reese towbar designed for a removed rear bumper which looked like the best option, but with the shortest tongue and tow ball it still sticks out probably 200mm more than it could. Did you look into this when you bought your Triton, or have a view on how close the tow ball can be placed relative to the rear axle given the constraints of the tub / tray and legislation? For what it's worth, I think as long as a full jack-knife still clears the rear corners of the tub from the trailer, then placing the tow ball slightly under the tub would be a good compromise. Would like to here your thoughts from an engineering point of view.
The fact you’re watching this video, tells me you know little about towing. The problem with people these days is they want to google a quick answer I never actually learned anything. In this case, the effects of towing, and the dangers associated with it
And considerable cheaper than a Landcruiser. I saw a 4x4 crew cab at a camping show with a camper body on the back. Looked amazing. Long way to climb up though...
I own and tow with a Paj Sport. I couldn’t agree more with this vid. If I wanted to tow more than 2 tonne, I would go with a V6 min. The Paj just struggles with its 4 cylinder engine when towing over 1.8-2 tonne.
Hi John, people like you with you're views on caravanning are seriously missing out and I bet you've never even tried it. If you enjoy sleeping in a bed that has had all sorts of weirdos doing god knows what in, by all means book a hotel. And don't think for a minute just because you pay top dollar for a nice hotel that the sheets are clean. Not to mention what people put in the kettle! I know people who have worked in some and what they tell me has put me off hotels forever. You cant beat a road-trip towing a van in Australia and people that don't like it have never done it. There's so much to see in this country that you can't from a plane flight and sometimes you need to venture off the bitumen to stay in the best spots and meet real people. I renovated a 20 year old pop top and all up it cost me $38,000 and that includes a spacious full ensuite so you don't need to spend $78k on a van. The wife loves it as she has her own toilet that no-one else has used and her own clean bed. We've taken our kids to USA, Europe and countless holidays to the Gold coast staying in hotels and my now 21 year old son still says the trip towing our van to Darwin and back from Melbourne when he was 12 is his favourite trip. Quality time with the kids in the car and in the van was priceless.
I want to tow my dads boat back to SA from Qld, so I've been watching quite keenly on towing large loads. Ie 3t. No it is not that heavy, I want something that is so competent and safe.
Definatley agree with 2 ton for your triton. With my pk ranger near enough to its GVM of 3 ton I'm comfortable with about 2.5 ton but I don't think I want any more behind as I would be over GCM to begin with and to be legal I would have the towed load out weigh the vehicle which I don't like the idea of if shit hits the fan.
John. Here is the fun one for me. You spend 75k for a porta potty on wheels. Too visit Australia.. silly question.. you don't want to stay in Hotel or Motel.. to save money.. Um err, 97% of Modern caravan park, have cabins available. How many cabins could you stay in for 75k? And there is no rego or maintenance required.. Of track for night or two. Just take a 2 bed Swag. And camp stove.. But everyone is a snob now..
@@MrEtnorb yep. It's a false economy.. buy Yaris. A swag.. for non camp sites. Less fuel, bugger all rego crap.. it's funnier that people do the Grey Nomad stuff. Too get away from people and the Modern world. But stay in caravan parks and want wifi..
Park your $75k+ caravan and $75k+ tow vehicle in a term deposit, earning 4,75%. Add to that about $30 per 100kmh in fuel savings. Add to that caravan park site fees at "X" ($30?) Add to that 4X4 maintenance and caravan repairs (?). You start to come up with a pretty compelling number that makes you think twice about washing your own dirty linen and emptying your portaloo. My Father did the "lap", years ago. It was a mug's game then.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 my mate, fellow disability pensioner. Has a old 1981 Jimny.. has been buzzing around around Australia for 3 years.. haa swag, for off grid camping. Has fridge in back for Cold Beer.. Stays in cabins at caravan parks.. his overheads are f all.. Another mate, look at me and how rich I am. Bought a Isuzu, and a $85k portta potty. Umn err they have run out of finance, due to car, and caravan repairs.. they keep having to refinance what they have.. just the registration and insurance costs are enormous.. buy a Yaris and swag. And tour around Australia for bugger all. When you land at a caravan park. Huge car and portta potty. You use the same amenities..
Just did a trip to Perth and back from Melbourne with a Triton and a 21 foot van, im now looking at a Ram or a Chev and if i could pass the boss id buy a second hand Kenworth and put a couple of dirt bikes on the back and tow the van with that., but there was one thing that I noticed was there was a few Rams and after talkig with them they were getting about 20 l per 100 ks and they were all happy with there Rams
The main reason people keep asking this same question is because the pajero sport is the best value vehicle out there capable of doing this sort of towing and the 2500kg is really the lightest ATM caravan out there capable of comfortably housing a common family of 4. The great australian dream isn't owning your own home anymore. It's being able to tow a caravan around the country at a reasonable price and still be legal!😉 Keep up the good fight John! You are sharing life saving knowledge.
I think you'd have to admit you are fighting a losing battle in your opposition to Caravans. Maybe in terms of the dynamics, you should advocate "fifth wheels" as a solution?
Isn't it going to great when our car parks, national parks, van parks and roads are packed with ridiculously sized 5th wheelers and their equally over the top yank tow vehicles......it's coming though.
A vote here for keeping it below 2200kg. The Toyota Fortuner is a good option for these weights. Heaps of power and torque 150 kw and 500nm. Best option is sell the van get a fridge chair, canister stove and use cabins and take a tent for when accommodation is an issue.
However, it’s a Toyota and if it’s a diesel they can’t even design the piston right. The around 2004-2014 D4D engine suffered cracked pistons. I’m on my second engine now. No, the pistons are not genuine Toyota. They had 7 attempts to get it right. Freedom of information in the US will show all owners were compensated. Also everywhere in the world except Australia…so, be careful and set aside $12,000-$20,000 depending is you choose a reconditioned exchange engine or Genuine long motor from Toyota (yes, the crap pistons are in this engine as well). So not only is the reco engine stronger but cheaper…go figure. Sometimes you don’t get what you pay for.
Being Australian you have to love someone putting shit on a pastime alot of people like and being funny at the same and good advice for all conflicting I know but that's why U listen
I don’t know but it is only me thinking that maybe John doesn’t like caravans much? It’s pretty subtle but the enmity is definitely there if you listen hard.
I have one word for the " Grand Tour " concept . UNIMOG ( with Epedition Body ) . Doesn't go fast , 90 kmh flat knacker and 70 or 80 is more comfortable , but it WILL go ANYWHERE at all , with the House ON BOARD .
After towing a 2.7t van with a Prado, i do not recommend it, engine runs out of puff going up hills, stability is poor, overall scary drive. I have since upgraded to a Y62 patrol and it is like chalk and cheese, enough power to climb any hill at any speed and feels 100% more stable on the road, fuel use while towing is comparable aswell(only while towing)
Grenadier 871 kgs payload with 3500 tow capacity 7000 kgs total train weight .short distance from axil to tow ball Tow better than most if not all 4x4s No dont own one as i like a pick up for trade stuff but if they ever make one i will be tempted
Kudos John, I doubt I would have the discipline to restrain myself from commenting about dumping two "Loads" simultaneously, in a Jayco Starcraft 18,55-3 Touring!
The best car for towing heavy loads is a truck. In the right configuration for towing, the tow hitch to axle distance is less than a ute or 4x4. They have heavy springs from the factory as well as dual rear wheels. The brakes are better specified for the job, as is the diff, the gearbox and the engine (regardless of power). An added bonus is that they are competitively priced with utes/4X4's and the resale values are insane when it comes time to moving it on. Service intervals are often less frequent, as well. And it is much easier reversing a trailer with a light truck than it is with a ute or 4X4. Between your choice of vehicles and the ease with which you operate it, you'll have everyone else in the caravan park wondering why they were born so incredibly stupid.
@@Wonka_Tonka I'm not versed in the in and outs of light trucks, these days. I used to operate both a Toyota Dyna and a Mitsubishi Canter, but that was over 30 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
@@hectorkidds9840 That is definitely the reputation. "Carneys" tow caravans year in and year out using light trucks with sprung hitches. I've only ever spoken to one of them regarding the subject and it was his opinion that the sprung hitch solved the problem. It's always best to do your own research, though.
Great information but you forgot to do same GXL comparison with LC200/LC300. GXL Prado kerb weight with 150L fuel 2365kg ie 665kg payload, Landcruiser LC200 with 138L 2740kg ie payload 610kg, Landcruiser LC300 with 110L 2580kg ie payload 700kg. Your Mitsubishi Pajero sport which you failed to note is 60mm less width, smaller track, less wheel base etc. Close on payload but half fuel capacity so in the outback you need to take on more weight with containers of fuel. We have a Prado (had Landcruiser LC200 but fuel bill too much for 90% time) and tow a 2600kg caravan but because of brake upgrades, suspension upgrades, bull bar etc. the car does weight more than van all up. Also you failed to mention the law of caravans over 2000kg must be fitted with sway control, breakaway units and many other tech which nulls your points of sway and yaw on caravans. You keep having ago, pointing 20year old tech in caravans but fail to mention the safety systems, however you do beard stroke about vehicle safety system upgrades. PLS do a look at the technology in 2500kg average caravan. I do agree if your doing a lot of towing which will only be max few hours per if your doing the lap just do the GCM mods and brake updates you won’t regret it. Get the dealer to do them there for there done under warranty.
@@Mouldyturnip75 adding a few interesting facts which JC may of not mentioned. We chose Prado due to fuel tank capacity, serviceability, reliability, payload after GVM upgrade and fuel economy when we werent towing. At towing it’s 17L/100km, LC200 was 19L/100Km. Normal driving is 9.5L/100kM, LC200 was 12L/100km.
@@bushmagpie3312 your justification is what JC is about. Beard strokers using underpowered mid-size SUV and dual-crap utes for heavy loads, thumping their chest for the virtues of their choice of tow vehicle. A drop in a bucket difference in fuel use between the two Toyota's. Plenty of modern vans without sway control, which isn't a fail-safe when things get a little wobbly. Safe travels all the same. All the best.
@@Mouldyturnip75 if the caravan is over 2000kg and doesn’t have the safety then it’s an illegal trailer/caravan and won’t be licensed. Name a vehicle which has 150L fuel with spare tyre and payload of 650kg+ ? Value for money it came out on top due the reliability, serviceability access to parts and can get it repaired anywhere in AUSTRALIA outback.
@@bushmagpie3312 breakaway is mandatory. Electronic brake control is mandatory on 2t or more. ESC is optional on many, is gaining adoption as standard equipment. Enjoy your travels.
I think you do a first rate / excellent job of giving advice on complex topics like this JC, and explaining the complexities in detail of the engineering / physics aspects involved. I’m just wondering how many of your viewers can actually follow / understand sometimes all the individual nuances of every aspect tho? 🤷♂️ Might not it aid you in your explanations occasionally if you had maybe a easel with big sheets of butchers paper or indeed even a white board to sketch out these aspects in pictographic form maybe? It’s just a suggestion - the old “picture is worth 1000 words” routine. For vehicle stability while towing - maybe a model on a treadmill tethered at the front and adjust the loads on the trailer fore or aft to induce instability in yaw and so on? I guess it could maybe be done with slides from MS PowerPoint for eg, but that sounds like a lot more work than a sketch on butchers paper tho. So I guess what I’m saying is more visual aids and less jibber jabber? 😜😂 I’m just thinking that perhaps those viewers with less engineering backgrounds might find it easier if you paint by pictures is all. Most folks can only grasp 3 new ideas in any given day & often there’s a string of new concepts in your explanations for the vipers to comprehend, digest, understand, & remember in order to follow you all the way to your sound logical outcomes. With the millennials of today who struggle to comprehend anything longer than a tweet, I sometimes question their ability to follow a reasoned logical debate I guess. Again feel free to ignore my suggestion, what your already doing is obviously working - so maybe “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” is the better course of action. 😉👍
If buying a SUV wagon brand new, to tow a 2.5T caravan, I would consider: VW Touareg 210 diesel, Defender D300, Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series, Ford Everest V6, Ineos Grenadier diesel, Y62 Patrol. These are the vehicles that would be on my primary consideration. But probably get a Prado 150 Series, simply because it can be had with a factory 150 litre fuel capacity depending on the spec.
average adult weight of 110kg x2 220kg 150-180 kg of ankle biters 360 kg in trailer you be borderline on or over your weight limit on your car license for gcm john at 2,5 ton cruiser (v8) and van at 4.5 ton your gcm without humans or cargo stands at 7 ton +400kg (human) 250kg crap in car, 350-500 kg in the van metric ton+
I want to know why caravans can't be built with an axle at either end. This would eliminate the stability issues. It would also allow for a 'low slung' design between the axles, creating room for storage or otherwise, which would lower the centre of gravity, further improving stability. Essentially, build caravans as dog trailers as opposed to pig trailers.
They can be built that way but because you then have to link two separate axles the chassis or unibody would have to be much stronger to support itself from sagging in the middle. Also the front axle would need a turntable which adds more weight. Due to the towing limits of the average caravanners tow vehicle this would make caravans too heavy for the size of accommodation to weight ratio. 30 years ago health and safety etc was not as concerned as it is now and you made your choices and ran the risks. These days you cannot step out the house without someone in a vis vest raining Regulations upon you. People now have more disposable income but a seemingly inverse proportioned amount of common sense. Back when my Dad drove the Cortina with a 14ft caravan we were around 2.2T gross train weight. Now you have a lot of people riding around at 6T train weight but reliant on stability programs to keep things straight. Perhaps a carbon fibre monocoque dog caravan would be light enough but who could afford it?
If you're going to tow more than maybe 30% of the weight of the tow vehicle or over maybe 1000KG just get a truck and use a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch. I don't have much use for light duty pickups (do own 5 HD ones), but "bumper pull" is just wrong if you're towing significant weight. 1/2T pickups usually have exaggerated tow ratings. None of them really tow over 2500 KG well. For that you need a 3/4T or 1T. I tow often and anywhere from 500KG to 12000KG. I've been doing this for over 60 years. And the other thing that matters is DO NOT BE STUPID! Don't overload, don't push the dynamic limits of your rig.
Thanks John, While certainly agreeing with you regarding limiting the size of your ATAS to under 2000Kg. If you were looking to spend the dosh would forking out for a Chevy Silverado etc. , over a 300 series, make any sense if you were going to pull over 2500Kg? Asking for a friend.
I've towed with 100s, 200s and 79s and am a landcruiser fan boy through and through. However after purchasing an older F250 many moons ago, you can't beat a leaf sprung rear US 250/2500 vehicle. Chassis thickness, wheelbase, diffs etc all engineered for the job.
Hi John , you must be paid royalties from Mitsubishi the way you keep pumping up the Pajero Sport. The Prado payload is actually 705kgs (2023 GXL) not 605 as you say AND don't forget that's taking into consideration the 130ltr tank is full so if it has the same amount of fuel as the Pajero sport (68ltrs) you actually pick up another 60 odd kilos so you can end up with 100-160kgs more load capacity and still have the same amount of fuel left as the Pajero Sport. And the power to weight ratio is actually 7% not 4%- big difference. I also wonder why you don't mention the Fortuner? It has 15% more power to weight ratio than the Pajero Sport and better load capacity. (610kgs) It also weighs more which is better for towing a heavy van which you always say and has a tried and true more powerful engine (500Nm v 430NM) If you see the tow test done by Paul Maric from Car Expert the Fortuner and Prado towed the 2800kg load much better than the Pajero Sport. Google it. Have you got something against Toyotas??
Toyota fan-boy much? Big T is objectively the most misleading and deceptive carmake in Australia, and Prado is the perennial softcock LandCruiser. Toyota is also arguably the most environmentally reprehensible carmaker.
I’d suggest the best tow vehicle for that 2500kg caravan would be a Discovery 4, Discovery 5, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport or Defender without question.
Probably a Zeekr 001 EV? Not sure about the towing capacity but with 1,000km range on a single charge it should be able to go the distance. Hopefully they bring it to Aus.
Car manufacturers make up a number for towing capacity ie: 2500kg/3000kg/3500kg knowing full well that the motor is not designed to cope pulling weights - soooo when someone is towing and they blow up a motor …… they are covered 🤔
Ssangyong Rexton Ultimate. Excellent capacity and $55k on the road with an excellent interior and good warranty (7 years unlimited k's). 2.2 Diesel with 202bhp and 441nm. Fully loaded with the only thing lacking being SatNav (but has carplay etc). 3.5T towing with sway control and the vehicle weighs ~2.2T. Body on frame, 4WD (with low range) and a full-size spare. I've only had it for 3 weeks but am loving so far and the forums seem to be happy. Also, it's tens of thousands cheaper than most of the competition.
You should see how the farmers in South Korea (Gangwondo I'm looking at you) treat those things. They are tough as hell although everything plastic will break on them in 5 years.
In Australia I thought the best towing platform was a barmaid down to dingo piss 🤣 I kidd I kidd, love me some 'stralia! Love the shirt btw, quite fitting, so to speak, for the vid
Depends on speed,distance, road conditions. Drive to the conditions. Although once, when I was driving 68 ton B-doubles, I was told by middle manager drop kick, that I should be able to get the same trip times through heavy traffic,roundabouts and mixed highway/urban conditions as he could in his HSV V8 commodore. Go figure. The larger the combination of vehicle and trailer, the more care and attention needs to be taken. Even then, the center of gravity of the load, the width etc all comes into the equation of how to travel safely. I have a road registered off road bike with nobby tyres......I dont ride it on wet sealed roads if it can be avoided, those tyres just dont grip well under those conditions. There is a universal "catch all" in law called Duty of Care........know what you are doing, and dont do stupid things that endanger yourself or others........following orders etc IS NOT AN EXCUSE.
If you enjoy sleeping in a bed that has had all sorts of weirdos doing god knows what in, by all means book a hotel. And don't think for a minute just because you pay top dollar for a nice hotel that the sheets are clean. Not to mention what people put in the kettle! I know people who have worked in some and what they tell me has put me off hotels forever. You cant beat a road-trip towing a van in Australia and people that don't like it have never done it. There's so much to see in this country that you cant from a hotel and sometimes you need to venture off the bitumen! I renovated a 20 year old pop top and all up it cost me $38,000 and that includes a spacious full ensuite so you don't need to spend $78k on a van. The wife loves it as she has her own toilet that no-one else has used and her own clean bed.
Why haven't Australians taken to goosneck trailers (or 5th wheel caravans). The first time I tried a goosneck trailer was a revelation. Alternatively what about adding another axle, such as the Trailer Toad or Automated Safety Hitch (both are on UA-cam). You get an extra set of brakes, and there is zero towball townload on your truck/ute.
City slickers should have to do a driver training course for the outback and pass a towing test before being allowed to cross Stralia with their portable “boodware”.
JC it’s time to promote caravan ESC. Cost about $1k and you save around $70 per annum on insurance. Wouldn’t be without it. Yep I can activate my rv brakes manually and I’m trained to act quickly but why wouldn’t you spend the dough to be safe.
Love the comment about taxi drivers! Have to agree some of the worst drivers I have ever been with were taxi drivers and they all did that, even on wet roads.
Maybe, we just need to drive to conditions. In the sixties, they knew towing a van was dangerous at anything over 50mph (80kph). Maybe, we need to slow down. John, could you do a video on the positive safety effects of towing at 95kph, 90kph, 85kph 80kph - including money saving due to less wind drag. Otherwise, we aren't seeing anything that hasn't already been discussed at length.
Things have come a long way since the 60s. If you can't safely travel above 90k with any vehicle with today's modern tech you should not be on the road at all.
THANK YOU FOR VIDEO LOOK AT LIGHT TRUCK SIZE LIKE NPS 250 AS PRICE SAME MOST OVER TOW TRANSPORT FOR 2500KG LOAD ONLY STAY HARD TOP ROADS IN TRAVEL AROUND AUSTRALIA
Why don't they make caravans with one wheel per corner, like truck trailers? Is it just because people can't reverse it or you need a truck license to tow it?
A major cause of caravan and tug roll overs is gray nomads stacking everything high in their vans(to save bending down) Resulting in high cog, once you hit the gravel siding it’s game over That info came from Exmouth emergency rescue
John, when I was a kid in Uk the fair visited every year. With their vehicular collection there were a few conventional caravans but the larger ones were mostly the 4 wheeled steering front bogey type. Not sure if this makes them pig or dog trailers. Why are there no caravans designed with undercarriages of this type. Please explain my not, eg, pros and cons of this type of trailer/caravan.
Dosent help that all new caravans are very heavy compared to older 80/90s models. I have an older 1990 jaco 12ft StarCraft weight 750kg tare. Easy tow with RAV4. Modern day equivalent is like 1600kg tare. Too heavy and an upgrade to a larger tow vehicle needed.
JOHN just a quick question why have you not included a Mahindra twin cab 4x4 in any of your tests or videos. I am on my second one ,they punch well above their weight when towing and they are hard to kill. Fuel economy not quite as good as the others at twice the price
The Yanks figured this out a long time ago. Unfortunately, fifth wheeler caravans are hard to find in Australia, and even hard to sell when you're finished your lap.
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In a previous life, I was an auto elec. One year, I worked for two customers who were preparing for long caravan trips of over 3 months. One couple had a lightweight European van, and the other bought a house on wheels, complete with washing machine. Some time later, they returned home and popped into the workshop for maintenance work. The couple with the lightweight van (towed with an ancient Mazda Ute) reported a brilliant holiday up the Eastern side of our wonderful country. The other couple restricted themselves to day trips out from caravan sites - because the caravan was simply too much of a pain in the arse to move about the place. Lesson learned! Keep the videos coming, John. Great work!
I did a trip up to Qld last weekend, from Sydney every 4th or 5 vehicle had a fucking caravan or a camper at the back!
Now here is the rub!
Why Arnt they under the same regulations as trucks?
As far as 100 kms per hour and they should be restricted to the left lanes as trucks are in certain places?
also, they don't have restrictions on driving hours, and they should have.
To fill in logbooks
@@kevinduffy6712 They should bring in a regulation (law) that your are required to provide a weighbridge ticket if pulled over by the police when towing a caravan or large boat.
@@brucemckenna7035 They should be going over the weigh in motion scales at truck rms truck checking stations and be pulled in at the mobile ones
@Auto Expert John Cadogan, while I understand why you said that the vehicle's payload is the most constrained aspect of the loading while towing, there's actually something that's often even more constrained: the rear axle load rating (affectionately known as rear GAWR - rear Gross Axle Weight Rating). It can be a bit difficult to find the front and rear GAWRs these days, but for those who can find them, it's a good idea to do some calculations to make the situation look even more dire. Find the towball weight, then multiply it to account for leverage that unloads the front axle and inconveniently adds it to the rear axle. For an average modern 4X4 wagon, a 3500kg trailer with 350kg ball weight will end up loading the rear axle between 500kg and 520kg. Even when towing with the vehicle otherwise unladen, the rear axle on many vehicles will be so close to its GAWR that it's a good idea for the driver to go on a diet for a few weeks before towing with the maximum permitted ball weight. After all, considering where the driver's torso is in the car, around half of the driver's mass will be taken by the rear axle (give or take a bit). Unless the trailer is balanced well enough to reduce the ball load to, say, 5% of the ATM, a weight distribution hitch is absolutely necessary for most 4X4s with such a heavy trailer. However, that comes with extra risk of cracking the vehicle's chassis and/or that of the trailer. If my calculations are correct, most vehicles will hit the rear GAWR before they reach the GVM or GCM, but this extremely important aspect of towing mass calculation is neglected by nearly all but professional truck drivers.
Just completed 21,000 km towing a 3t caravan with a NW Pajero. Picked it up for $27K with 90,000 km on it. Spent $4K on Lovells suspension upgrade in SA, which made it legal to tow 3t with 300 kg ball weight. Absolutely no issues whatsoever. Great fuel economy sitting in 4th and doing 95 km on the open roads.
John, I write as a British, former shed-dragger, or owner of an acoustically transparent shittoir as you so eloquently call them. Having seen the light and now no longer crapping in a small cupboard, may I say how bloody funny you are? Once again, you are firing on all eight cylinders when it comes to sarcasm (and motoring knowledge). Keep up the good work
If you don't mind an older style vehicle try a Gen 4 Pajero. They shoulder the tow weight well (2500 kg with 250 kg ball load) or (3000 kg with 180 kg ball load).
In addition they have a high payload capacity of 775 kg.
We old boys love them.
Gen 4's are hands down the best all-around 4wd. A true sleeper.
I own an NW Pajero, it's been brilliant towing my 1.6 ton caravan, don't even know it's there.
I was test driving a Volvo FM yesterday. 500 horses + 90t payload, you could even tow two of those dreaded vans. Seriously though, not enough people understand vehicle weights, and your doing a great job promoting it. I would suggest just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, try a smaller van or a vehicle that can.
You’re doing a great job too
There are truck drivers that do not have a clue about vehicle mass limits, and dimensions etc.
Yuck
@@kevinduffy6712 you're not wrong, they also have issues sizing vehicles and engine size/power requirements for the jobs they want it to do.
@@skillsrev not that long back on the m7 there was 2 caravans arse over head heading north 5 kms between them
John, I like the irony in the way you heap scorn on toilets in caravans as a distasteful way of carrying treated effluent but don’t mind sleeping within a few feet of a toilet as you do in nearly every hotel/motel I have ever stayed in and just like a caravan you can hear everything your partner or child is doing while using it. Granted the effluent isn’t carried in a sealed container with chemicals that render it almost inert as it is in a caravan.
If of course but you are on an upper storey of a motel it’s a lot less convenient than a caravan to just step outside and or air the van for a few minutes. Of course most caravans parks have a toilet block so you don’t even have to use the toilet in the van other than emergencies. I am even willing to bet if you have an ensuite in your bedroom at home it is within a couple of metres of where you sleep all night long with nothing but a 40mm wooden door between yourself and your also quite acoustic port of ablution.
I haven’t even mentioned what a cesspool of previous tenants pathogens are waiting for you in each motel room you stay in regardless of how well they are cleaned between occupants.
Then there is the lovely air you get to share with a possibly a few hundred other people as the air conditioning pumps more airborne viruses, bacteria, skin particles, hair etc around the hotel for you to breathe, bathe and bonk in. As for the mattresses, let’s just say one ultraviolet light and you have a Jackson Pollock painting, regardless of how much the room costs per night and you know what dust mites prefer to eat.
But.. there is room service.
Ps I don’t own a van but I have done a lot of camping and staying in both upmarket and cheap motels. Something to be said for isolation, good views and not having hundreds of people sleeping within a few feet of you.
Nice
Spot on mate.
You forgot the bed lice
I've had 4 caravans and towed for at least 50,000 klms, always thinking about the poor bastards sharing beds and shithouse after many others. Seems to me that they are jealous.
Well said Gill!
I hope Pete has a friggin awesome touring holiday
I recon He will sell the whole fucking shebang when he gets to where he is going?
And buy a airline ticket back.
The LR4 is better at heavy towing than anything else Ive tried up to light trucks. Stability, wheelbase , weight, electronics, handling, 600nm torque, twin turbo. It did win tow car of the year for a decade. Reliability is not an issue in mine.
I have a 2014 RR Sport - that too is a great tow car, with plenty of spare load capacity in the car. tows very well indeed
Nice Video John
I drive a 100 Series Landcruiser and a 2016 Hilux twincab, I also tow a 2.5T caravan.
Quite frankly, towing the caravan with the Hilux scares me.
For the sake of telling you something you already no doubt know, the mine field of weights goes so much further than discussed. A friend of mine has a 200 series land cruiser as a police vehicle (obviously regional) To get that vehicle across the compliance line, it can be fitted with a bull bar but no winch. Reason being, once fully loaded (i.e 5 occupants and gear) it would exceed the rated loading on the front axle.
Crikey's
Hello John just booked an I30 in for a couple of possible warrenty issues to our local dealership. Told by local dealership workshop that two issues would be two diagnostic fees at $160 each. The local service department is nothing more than an extorsion racket. And they are getting progressively worse.
What's an I30?
At Kerb Weight, Prado carries 150 litres of diesel compared with Pajero Sport's 68 litres. An extra 82 litres of fuel safely stowed and weighing around 70kg. That more than makes up for the 60 kg reduced payload over the PS. I'd prefer not to have 4 jerry cans in the back to achieve parity.
pajero sports no better than a challanger, great but budget as.... i cant do more than 4hours in it...light rigid and hard seats
buying a new prado after 160,000km in the mitsi
Go the ford, cheap and easy to fix! I've owned a 2010 Falcon and surprising to me, has given me next to no problems at all. I'm no Ford lover, but my advice for ongevity is to be sure to service it regulary, maybe more often than required including replacing things more often than required like filters and oils and lubricants as well as replace parts as soon as they show singns of wear. Don't push it and think it will go another 5k km before changing a part as Fords a generally cheaper becuase they are made cheaper and thats where you'll get problems.
A snapped crankshaft is likely to spoil your morning in the ranger. easy to fix on the side of the road at least. Buy a late model 200 series land cruiser, or a 70 series. Its lack of comfort should keep the speed under control. The biggest point I suggest is to drive at a reasonable speed. I was asked how I drive in the snow (in Switzerland, 120k's each way all white roads, each week) answer was "slowly".
The issue here is the term “reasonable” speed.
Your idea of reasonable is guaranteed to be different to others.
Thanks for bringing up the topic of overhang John. When I bought my Triton MR I looked for a towbar that minimised the overhang so as to improve the handling/dynamics while towing, but without success. I removed the rear bumper and purchased a Reese towbar designed for a removed rear bumper which looked like the best option, but with the shortest tongue and tow ball it still sticks out probably 200mm more than it could. Did you look into this when you bought your Triton, or have a view on how close the tow ball can be placed relative to the rear axle given the constraints of the tub / tray and legislation? For what it's worth, I think as long as a full jack-knife still clears the rear corners of the tub from the trailer, then placing the tow ball slightly under the tub would be a good compromise. Would like to here your thoughts from an engineering point of view.
Bla Bla Bla, just answer the question.
He’s incapable of that, too busy being sarcastic and trying to be a smart arse.
Sounds like you two puppets are caravaners 😮
This bloke is a proper flog!
Haha that was my reaction but the guy has got his style and his viewers seems to love it
The fact you’re watching this video, tells me you know little about towing. The problem with people these days is they want to google a quick answer I never actually learned anything. In this case, the effects of towing, and the dangers associated with it
I have a ford f350 great for towing and surprisingly economical
My Isuzu NPR 45/155 4500kgs towing standard 👍
And considerable cheaper than a Landcruiser. I saw a 4x4 crew cab at a camping show with a camper body on the back. Looked amazing. Long way to climb up though...
@georgekaplan6451 yeah they are pretty awesome I was looking at one at Isuzu when I got my truck serviced
Thanks for that 23 minutes and 39 seconds, entertaining as always. I look forward to your next preeesentation with great eagerness.
I believe the best machine to tow a caravan is a Kubota tractor and it must be towed off road.
Tugboat is my favourite: artificial reef.
Yes. Tow the caravan off the road, un hitch, and leave it there.
I own and tow with a Paj Sport. I couldn’t agree more with this vid.
If I wanted to tow more than 2 tonne, I would go with a V6 min. The Paj just struggles with its 4 cylinder engine when towing over 1.8-2 tonne.
the pb challanger is solid at 3 tonne , 1.7t excavator on 16ft 990kg 3.2t trailer....
My recommendation...
The India Pacific... or
The Ghan...
Hook the 4WD on the back.
Hi John, people like you with you're views on caravanning are seriously missing out and I bet you've never even tried it. If you enjoy sleeping in a bed that has had all sorts of weirdos doing god knows what in, by all means book a hotel. And don't think for a minute just because you pay top dollar for a nice hotel that the sheets are clean. Not to mention what people put in the kettle! I know people who have worked in some and what they tell me has put me off hotels forever. You cant beat a road-trip towing a van in Australia and people that don't like it have never done it. There's so much to see in this country that you can't from a plane flight and sometimes you need to venture off the bitumen to stay in the best spots and meet real people. I renovated a 20 year old pop top and all up it cost me $38,000 and that includes a spacious full ensuite so you don't need to spend $78k on a van. The wife loves it as she has her own toilet that no-one else has used and her own clean bed.
We've taken our kids to USA, Europe and countless holidays to the Gold coast staying in hotels and my now 21 year old son still says the trip towing our van to Darwin and back from Melbourne when he was 12 is his favourite trip. Quality time with the kids in the car and in the van was priceless.
My 1984 chevrolet crew cab dually 454 3500 does a pretty good job.
I want to tow my dads boat back to SA from Qld, so I've been watching quite keenly on towing large loads. Ie 3t.
No it is not that heavy, I want something that is so competent and safe.
Definatley agree with 2 ton for your triton. With my pk ranger near enough to its GVM of 3 ton I'm comfortable with about 2.5 ton but I don't think I want any more behind as I would be over GCM to begin with and to be legal I would have the towed load out weigh the vehicle which I don't like the idea of if shit hits the fan.
John. Here is the fun one for me. You spend 75k for a porta potty on wheels. Too visit Australia.. silly question.. you don't want to stay in Hotel or Motel.. to save money..
Um err, 97% of Modern caravan park, have cabins available. How many cabins could you stay in for 75k? And there is no rego or maintenance required..
Of track for night or two. Just take a 2 bed Swag. And camp stove..
But everyone is a snob now..
And throw in the $50,000+ cost of the car so there is $125,000 which at $500/night=250 nights of luxury dry accommodation.
@@MrEtnorb yep. It's a false economy.. buy Yaris. A swag.. for non camp sites. Less fuel, bugger all rego crap.. it's funnier that people do the Grey Nomad stuff. Too get away from people and the Modern world. But stay in caravan parks and want wifi..
@@MrEtnorb I’m no van fan but you have to consider the resale value of this gear. Makes the sums more palatable.
Park your $75k+ caravan and $75k+ tow vehicle in a term deposit, earning 4,75%.
Add to that about $30 per 100kmh in fuel savings. Add to that caravan park site fees at "X" ($30?) Add to that 4X4 maintenance and caravan repairs (?).
You start to come up with a pretty compelling number that makes you think twice about washing your own dirty linen and emptying your portaloo.
My Father did the "lap", years ago. It was a mug's game then.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 my mate, fellow disability pensioner. Has a old 1981 Jimny.. has been buzzing around around Australia for 3 years.. haa swag, for off grid camping. Has fridge in back for Cold Beer..
Stays in cabins at caravan parks.. his overheads are f all..
Another mate, look at me and how rich I am. Bought a Isuzu, and a $85k portta potty. Umn err they have run out of finance, due to car, and caravan repairs.. they keep having to refinance what they have.. just the registration and insurance costs are enormous.. buy a Yaris and swag. And tour around Australia for bugger all. When you land at a caravan park. Huge car and portta potty. You use the same amenities..
Dear John, old circus wagons had 2 axels and 4 wheels, carriages had/ have the same or similar setup. Why are caravans fitted with only 2?
I always take the eggs out from outside in to ensure the best stability of the carton.
I thought it was just me! My wife says I'm "special" 😂
😂😂same
Just did a trip to Perth and back from Melbourne with a Triton and a 21 foot van, im now looking at a Ram or a Chev and if i could pass the boss id buy a second hand Kenworth and put a couple of dirt bikes on the back and tow the van with that., but there was one thing that I noticed was there was a few Rams and after talkig with them they were getting about 20 l per 100 ks and they were all happy with there Rams
Thanks John for the info you make a lot of sense van size it a substitute for something that's lacking in some people anatomy, Cheers Mate
Could we have your honest opinion of caravans
The main reason people keep asking this same question is because the pajero sport is the best value vehicle out there capable of doing this sort of towing and the 2500kg is really the lightest ATM caravan out there capable of comfortably housing a common family of 4.
The great australian dream isn't owning your own home anymore. It's being able to tow a caravan around the country at a reasonable price and still be legal!😉
Keep up the good fight John! You are sharing life saving knowledge.
The beard strokers are going to love that vid John
I'm almost convinced to shave mine off.
Clearly one of the ex's bitched his arse off in a van years ago!
I think you'd have to admit you are fighting a losing battle in your opposition to Caravans. Maybe in terms of the dynamics, you should advocate "fifth wheels" as a solution?
No, they're even worse. They're an incredibly stupid kludge to get around some (also incredibly stupid) legislation in the USA.
Isn't it going to great when our car parks, national parks, van parks and roads are packed with ridiculously sized 5th wheelers and their equally over the top yank tow vehicles......it's coming though.
@@tadstertrolley7770I agree, however I have a home-made 15ft gooseneck. Best towing trailer I have ever towed.
A vote here for keeping it below 2200kg. The Toyota Fortuner is a good option for these weights. Heaps of power and torque 150 kw and 500nm. Best option is sell the van get a fridge chair, canister stove and use cabins and take a tent for when accommodation is an issue.
However, it’s a Toyota and if it’s a diesel they can’t even design the piston right.
The around 2004-2014 D4D engine suffered cracked pistons.
I’m on my second engine now.
No, the pistons are not genuine Toyota.
They had 7 attempts to get it right.
Freedom of information in the US will show all owners were compensated. Also everywhere in the world except Australia…so, be careful and set aside $12,000-$20,000 depending is you choose a reconditioned exchange engine or Genuine long motor from Toyota (yes, the crap pistons are in this engine as well). So not only is the reco engine stronger but cheaper…go figure. Sometimes you don’t get what you pay for.
@Martin Lang Toyota have never made a good diesel engine . Always had issues over the last 30 years.
Go back 30 years and find a 12ht or a 2h and you would eat hat
Heaps of power and torque......is that heaps? Um, no.
I wouldn’t call 150kW heaps of power. Inadequate I’d suggest. The torque figure is adequate.
Jeep grand cherokee is my pick, suv has short axel to tow hitch and has a weight of 2400kg, and v6 deisal 300hp
Love my 2019 MU-X . Isuzu engines are bullet proof!
Except for the turbos. My 2019 is on it’s third by 60,000km. One more and it’s going. Such a shame as I like the car.
Surely a RAM or Silverado or similar would be the way to go for towing something 2.5T+
Three choices for genuine safety 1) Isuzu NPS 300 (NOT the DMAX), 2) Hino 300 817 or 3) Fuso FGB71
Can add the HD American trucks too. (Ram 2500 cummins/Chev 2500 duramax/F250350 twins ect)
That's actually the sort of thing I was expecting John to suggest.
However, Isuzu NPS 300 has lap-only seat belts (3 in the crew cab), which are so dangerous they were banned many years ago for passenger vehicles.
@@MichaelCsikos😂😂 for touring,,, i wouldnt drive my nqr 450 600km, insane idea
@@audoinxr6372definatly 6.6duramax or 7.2powerstroke .... i had a gmc 3500 6.5td best tow ever
Being Australian you have to love someone putting shit on a pastime alot of people like and being funny at the same and good advice for all conflicting I know but that's why U listen
Its getting a bit tired now, i get great pleasure on hanging shit on 79 series owners but i take a break every now and then
I don’t know but it is only me thinking that maybe John doesn’t like caravans much? It’s pretty subtle but the enmity is definitely there if you listen hard.
I had not noticed
I have one word for the " Grand Tour " concept . UNIMOG ( with Epedition Body ) .
Doesn't go fast , 90 kmh flat knacker and 70 or 80 is more comfortable , but it WILL go ANYWHERE at all , with the House ON BOARD .
Been crunching these numbers for my old man, we have come down to the Y62, Cruiser, Previous gen Disco.
Disco 4 is a towing beast and has great payload. Disco 5 even better.
How about Range Rover with V8 Deisel?
Range/landrovers are great vehicles...the 40% of the time they aren't in for repairs
Disco parts hard to find in the outback
@@michaelhermans4753 not relevant to the discussion.
My Sheila did the research, we need a truck💪
My Sheila, did the research, I need a divorce 😂
@@eamonnleonard9162 My Tiffany divorced me…found a Bruce with a bigger truck💪
My Sheila did the research. She gave me the bullet whilst the children still had some social security age left in them.
After towing a 2.7t van with a Prado, i do not recommend it, engine runs out of puff going up hills, stability is poor, overall scary drive.
I have since upgraded to a Y62 patrol and it is like chalk and cheese, enough power to climb any hill at any speed and feels 100% more stable on the road, fuel use while towing is comparable aswell(only while towing)
Agreed, they are cheap to buy and mine has been extremely reliable.
Grenadier 871 kgs payload with 3500 tow capacity 7000 kgs total train weight .short distance from axil to tow ball
Tow better than most if not all 4x4s
No dont own one as i like a pick up for trade stuff but if they ever make one i will be tempted
What about the Y62 patrol?
Nissan is dead in Australia, so not even considered.
Latest version is also circa 2015 tech.
Kudos John, I doubt I would have the discipline to restrain myself from commenting about dumping two "Loads" simultaneously, in a Jayco Starcraft 18,55-3 Touring!
The best car for towing heavy loads is a truck. In the right configuration for towing, the tow hitch to axle distance is less than a ute or 4x4. They have heavy springs from the factory as well as dual rear wheels. The brakes are better specified for the job, as is the diff, the gearbox and the engine (regardless of power).
An added bonus is that they are competitively priced with utes/4X4's and the resale values are insane when it comes time to moving it on. Service intervals are often less frequent, as well. And it is much easier reversing a trailer with a light truck than it is with a ute or 4X4.
Between your choice of vehicles and the ease with which you operate it, you'll have everyone else in the caravan park wondering why they were born so incredibly stupid.
What would you suggest like a Iveco or hino ?
Lots more ground clearance in the 4x4 models too.
Caravan A frames are too flexible to cope well with time behind a truck and crack after a while, unless you use a shock absorber hitch.
@@Wonka_Tonka I'm not versed in the in and outs of light trucks, these days. I used to operate both a Toyota Dyna and a Mitsubishi Canter, but that was over 30 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
@@hectorkidds9840 That is definitely the reputation. "Carneys" tow caravans year in and year out using light trucks with sprung hitches. I've only ever spoken to one of them regarding the subject and it was his opinion that the sprung hitch solved the problem. It's always best to do your own research, though.
Great information but you forgot to do same GXL comparison with LC200/LC300.
GXL Prado kerb weight with 150L fuel 2365kg ie 665kg payload, Landcruiser LC200 with 138L 2740kg ie payload 610kg, Landcruiser LC300 with 110L 2580kg ie payload 700kg.
Your Mitsubishi Pajero sport which you failed to note is 60mm less width, smaller track, less wheel base etc. Close on payload but half fuel capacity so in the outback you need to take on more weight with containers of fuel.
We have a Prado (had Landcruiser LC200 but fuel bill too much for 90% time) and tow a 2600kg caravan but because of brake upgrades, suspension upgrades, bull bar etc. the car does weight more than van all up.
Also you failed to mention the law of caravans over 2000kg must be fitted with sway control, breakaway units and many other tech which nulls your points of sway and yaw on caravans.
You keep having ago, pointing 20year old tech in caravans but fail to mention the safety systems, however you do beard stroke about vehicle safety system upgrades.
PLS do a look at the technology in 2500kg average caravan. I do agree if your doing a lot of towing which will only be max few hours per if your doing the lap just do the GCM mods and brake updates you won’t regret it. Get the dealer to do them there for there done under warranty.
Justifys buying a Prado. 😂😂
@@Mouldyturnip75 adding a few interesting facts which JC may of not mentioned. We chose Prado due to fuel tank capacity, serviceability, reliability, payload after GVM upgrade and fuel economy when we werent towing. At towing it’s 17L/100km, LC200 was 19L/100Km.
Normal driving is 9.5L/100kM, LC200 was 12L/100km.
@@bushmagpie3312 your justification is what JC is about. Beard strokers using underpowered mid-size SUV and dual-crap utes for heavy loads, thumping their chest for the virtues of their choice of tow vehicle. A drop in a bucket difference in fuel use between the two Toyota's.
Plenty of modern vans without sway control, which isn't a fail-safe when things get a little wobbly.
Safe travels all the same. All the best.
@@Mouldyturnip75 if the caravan is over 2000kg and doesn’t have the safety then it’s an illegal trailer/caravan and won’t be licensed.
Name a vehicle which has 150L fuel with spare tyre and payload of 650kg+ ?
Value for money it came out on top due the reliability, serviceability access to parts and can get it repaired anywhere in AUSTRALIA outback.
@@bushmagpie3312 breakaway is mandatory. Electronic brake control is mandatory on 2t or more.
ESC is optional on many, is gaining adoption as standard equipment.
Enjoy your travels.
I think you do a first rate / excellent job of giving advice on complex topics like this JC, and explaining the complexities in detail of the engineering / physics aspects involved.
I’m just wondering how many of your viewers can actually follow / understand sometimes all the individual nuances of every aspect tho? 🤷♂️
Might not it aid you in your explanations occasionally if you had maybe a easel with big sheets of butchers paper or indeed even a white board to sketch out these aspects in pictographic form maybe?
It’s just a suggestion - the old “picture is worth 1000 words” routine.
For vehicle stability while towing - maybe a model on a treadmill tethered at the front and adjust the loads on the trailer fore or aft to induce instability in yaw and so on?
I guess it could maybe be done with slides from MS PowerPoint for eg, but that sounds like a lot more work than a sketch on butchers paper tho.
So I guess what I’m saying is more visual aids and less jibber jabber? 😜😂
I’m just thinking that perhaps those viewers with less engineering backgrounds might find it easier if you paint by pictures is all.
Most folks can only grasp 3 new ideas in any given day & often there’s a string of new concepts in your explanations for the vipers to comprehend, digest, understand, & remember in order to follow you all the way to your sound logical outcomes.
With the millennials of today who struggle to comprehend anything longer than a tweet, I sometimes question their ability to follow a reasoned logical debate I guess.
Again feel free to ignore my suggestion, what your already doing is obviously working - so maybe “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” is the better course of action. 😉👍
If buying a SUV wagon brand new, to tow a 2.5T caravan, I would consider: VW Touareg 210 diesel, Defender D300, Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series, Ford Everest V6, Ineos Grenadier diesel, Y62 Patrol. These are the vehicles that would be on my primary consideration. But probably get a Prado 150 Series, simply because it can be had with a factory 150 litre fuel capacity depending on the spec.
problem is John the bush bashing caravans are are coming in 4-4.5 ton at 23 foot in length, not old standard of just on or over 2 ton
One word: Truck.
average adult weight of 110kg x2 220kg 150-180 kg of ankle biters 360 kg in trailer you be borderline on or over your weight limit on your car license for gcm john
at 2,5 ton cruiser (v8) and van at 4.5 ton your gcm without humans or cargo stands at 7 ton
+400kg (human) 250kg crap in car, 350-500 kg in the van metric ton+
Hang on just a minute…. Did John Cadogan just recommend the Ford V6 that uses AdBlue as his preferred tourer?
I want to know why caravans can't be built with an axle at either end. This would eliminate the stability issues. It would also allow for a 'low slung' design between the axles, creating room for storage or otherwise, which would lower the centre of gravity, further improving stability. Essentially, build caravans as dog trailers as opposed to pig trailers.
To add, such a configuration would greatly reduce the downball load, again, improving stability.
They can be built that way but because you then have to link two separate axles the chassis or unibody would have to be much stronger to support itself from sagging in the middle. Also the front axle would need a turntable which adds more weight. Due to the towing limits of the average caravanners tow vehicle this would make caravans too heavy for the size of accommodation to weight ratio. 30 years ago health and safety etc was not as concerned as it is now and you made your choices and ran the risks. These days you cannot step out the house without someone in a vis vest raining Regulations upon you. People now have more disposable income but a seemingly inverse proportioned amount of common sense. Back when my Dad drove the Cortina with a 14ft caravan we were around 2.2T gross train weight. Now you have a lot of people riding around at 6T train weight but reliant on stability programs to keep things straight. Perhaps a carbon fibre monocoque dog caravan would be light enough but who could afford it?
John for non 4wd towing, Wouldnt a truck be better ? Iveco or Hino
Why not a 4WD truck?
@@trput3824 any suggestion? I dont have HR but looking for some ideas
If you're going to tow more than maybe 30% of the weight of the tow vehicle or over maybe 1000KG just get a truck and use a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch. I don't have much use for light duty pickups (do own 5 HD ones), but "bumper pull" is just wrong if you're towing significant weight.
1/2T pickups usually have exaggerated tow ratings. None of them really tow over 2500 KG well. For that you need a 3/4T or 1T.
I tow often and anywhere from 500KG to 12000KG. I've been doing this for over 60 years. And the other thing that matters is DO NOT BE STUPID! Don't overload, don't push the dynamic limits of your rig.
Thanks John,
While certainly agreeing with you regarding limiting the size of your ATAS to under 2000Kg. If you were looking to spend the dosh would forking out for a Chevy Silverado etc. , over a 300 series, make any sense if you were going to pull over 2500Kg? Asking for a friend.
A silverado or ram world be way better for towing, but introduce a whole host of other problems due to the sheer size of the fricken things.
I've towed with 100s, 200s and 79s and am a landcruiser fan boy through and through.
However after purchasing an older F250 many moons ago, you can't beat a leaf sprung rear US 250/2500 vehicle. Chassis thickness, wheelbase, diffs etc all engineered for the job.
Hi John , you must be paid royalties from Mitsubishi the way you keep pumping up the Pajero Sport. The Prado payload is actually 705kgs (2023 GXL) not 605 as you say AND don't forget that's taking into consideration the 130ltr tank is full so if it has the same amount of fuel as the Pajero sport (68ltrs) you actually pick up another 60 odd kilos so you can end up with 100-160kgs more load capacity and still have the same amount of fuel left as the Pajero Sport. And the power to weight ratio is actually 7% not 4%- big difference. I also wonder why you don't mention the Fortuner? It has 15% more power to weight ratio than the Pajero Sport and better load capacity. (610kgs) It also weighs more which is better for towing a heavy van which you always say and has a tried and true more powerful engine (500Nm v 430NM) If you see the tow test done by Paul Maric from Car Expert the Fortuner and Prado towed the 2800kg load much better than the Pajero Sport. Google it.
Have you got something against Toyotas??
Toyota fan-boy much? Big T is objectively the most misleading and deceptive carmake in Australia, and Prado is the perennial softcock LandCruiser. Toyota is also arguably the most environmentally reprehensible carmaker.
I’d suggest the best tow vehicle for that 2500kg caravan would be a Discovery 4, Discovery 5, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport or Defender without question.
Seconded.
Would have loved to hear your take on Toyota Fortuner in this vid. Love your work John.
Probably a Zeekr 001 EV? Not sure about the towing capacity but with 1,000km range on a single charge it should be able to go the distance. Hopefully they bring it to Aus.
get an ml320 or gl320 merc, they can tow 3500 and still have a full car of gvm, same with post 2011 x5 bmw's.
Car manufacturers make up a number for towing capacity ie: 2500kg/3000kg/3500kg knowing full well that the motor is not designed to cope pulling weights - soooo when someone is towing and they blow up a motor
…… they are covered 🤔
Or even an iveco daily? Van or ute, heaps of room. I think they even do a 4x4. However, probably wouldn't need it if ya not going off road.
You can't resell a nights accommodation in a motel, but you can resell your van when you are finished with it.
What if you're finished with it before you buy it? (In other words, in my case...)
Ssangyong Rexton Ultimate. Excellent capacity and $55k on the road with an excellent interior and good warranty (7 years unlimited k's). 2.2 Diesel with 202bhp and 441nm. Fully loaded with the only thing lacking being SatNav (but has carplay etc). 3.5T towing with sway control and the vehicle weighs ~2.2T. Body on frame, 4WD (with low range) and a full-size spare. I've only had it for 3 weeks but am loving so far and the forums seem to be happy. Also, it's tens of thousands cheaper than most of the competition.
So that’s 1.3t towing capacity
@@Big_Yin crap, really?
You should see how the farmers in South Korea (Gangwondo I'm looking at you) treat those things. They are tough as hell although everything plastic will break on them in 5 years.
I’m sure the outback aboriginal communities have spare parts
In Australia I thought the best towing platform was a barmaid down to dingo piss 🤣 I kidd I kidd, love me some 'stralia! Love the shirt btw, quite fitting, so to speak, for the vid
I'm tipping the numero uno design change to new Triton will be reducing the length of that lever between rear axle and towball.
Depends on speed,distance, road conditions. Drive to the conditions. Although once, when I was driving 68 ton B-doubles, I was told by middle manager drop kick, that I should be able to get the same trip times through heavy traffic,roundabouts and mixed highway/urban conditions as he could in his HSV V8 commodore. Go figure. The larger the combination of vehicle and trailer, the more care and attention needs to be taken. Even then, the center of gravity of the load, the width etc all comes into the equation of how to travel safely. I have a road registered off road bike with nobby tyres......I dont ride it on wet sealed roads if it can be avoided, those tyres just dont grip well under those conditions. There is a universal "catch all" in law called Duty of Care........know what you are doing, and dont do stupid things that endanger yourself or others........following orders etc IS NOT AN EXCUSE.
Great stories and explanation of all the pros and cons John. Got to agree with the fact that $78k would buy a lot of nights at the Grand Hyatt.
Not everyone wants to stay in fancy hotels. Some like the outdoors and exploring this great country of ours.
You cant resell your motel accommodation.
Except there is no Hyatt (or similar) on the Geat Central Road or the Tanami Track or anywhere other than population centres.
If you enjoy sleeping in a bed that has had all sorts of weirdos doing god knows what in, by all means book a hotel. And don't think for a minute just because you pay top dollar for a nice hotel that the sheets are clean. Not to mention what people put in the kettle! I know people who have worked in some and what they tell me has put me off hotels forever. You cant beat a road-trip towing a van in Australia and people that don't like it have never done it. There's so much to see in this country that you cant from a hotel and sometimes you need to venture off the bitumen! I renovated a 20 year old pop top and all up it cost me $38,000 and that includes a spacious full ensuite so you don't need to spend $78k on a van. The wife loves it as she has her own toilet that no-one else has used and her own clean bed.
Why haven't Australians taken to goosneck trailers (or 5th wheel caravans). The first time I tried a goosneck trailer was a revelation. Alternatively what about adding another axle, such as the Trailer Toad or Automated Safety Hitch (both are on UA-cam). You get an extra set of brakes, and there is zero towball townload on your truck/ute.
@@Australiacalling I have driven a lot with one in the USA and they are wonderful.
City slickers should have to do a driver training course for the outback and pass a towing test before being allowed to cross Stralia with their portable “boodware”.
So should country bumpkins, but at least us city folk can spell. Boodware😂😂😂 try “Boudoir” dopey.
I love the caravan hate John. Always cracks me up.
So how big a winch do I need to get the Shitoir on the back of the Kenworth Semi?
John , you should start your own Lemon Caravan site, People all over Australia are buying dodgy caravans, I think you would agree
My Sheila’s ordered a truck💪
JC it’s time to promote caravan ESC. Cost about $1k and you save around $70 per annum on insurance. Wouldn’t be without it. Yep I can activate my rv brakes manually and I’m trained to act quickly but why wouldn’t you spend the dough to be safe.
Love the comment about taxi drivers! Have to agree some of the worst drivers I have ever been with were taxi drivers and they all did that, even on wet roads.
Maybe, we just need to drive to conditions. In the sixties, they knew towing a van was dangerous at anything over 50mph (80kph).
Maybe, we need to slow down. John, could you do a video on the positive safety effects of towing at 95kph, 90kph, 85kph 80kph - including money saving due to less wind drag. Otherwise, we aren't seeing anything that hasn't already been discussed at length.
Things have come a long way since the 60s. If you can't safely travel above 90k with any vehicle with today's modern tech you should not be on the road at all.
THANK YOU FOR VIDEO
LOOK AT LIGHT TRUCK SIZE LIKE NPS 250 AS PRICE SAME MOST OVER TOW TRANSPORT FOR 2500KG LOAD ONLY STAY HARD TOP ROADS IN TRAVEL AROUND AUSTRALIA
I have a Chevy Duramax, and tow two swags....ride is sweet.
Why don't they make caravans with one wheel per corner, like truck trailers? Is it just because people can't reverse it or you need a truck license to tow it?
What is this “CARD” thing you always do? There if nothing at which the arrows point at. 🤷🏻♂️
A major cause of caravan and tug roll overs is gray nomads stacking everything high in their vans(to save bending down)
Resulting in high cog, once you hit the gravel siding it’s game over
That info came from Exmouth emergency rescue
Amarok V6 190 kw 580 nm with 5 pack leaf spring is perfect.
hey jc. i'm not sure "empty ball mass" means what you think it does.
Best thing about buying a TRUCK, not a ute, is that you don't need the caravan at all - have a camper body put on the truck chassis.
You're a Word Smith Comrade!
I’m on a budget and I’m thinking a 100 series and a camper trailer
John, when I was a kid in Uk the fair visited every year. With their vehicular collection there were a few conventional caravans but the larger ones were mostly the 4 wheeled steering front bogey type. Not sure if this makes them pig or dog trailers. Why are there no caravans designed with undercarriages of this type. Please explain my not, eg, pros and cons of this type of trailer/caravan.
Those would be dog trailers. The two main reasons are cost and they're much harder to reverse because of the extra pivot point.
A standard caravan is a pig trailer. The dog has an axle (or two+) at each end.
How did the Ming Mols get replaced by the balls trimmers and VPNs on this fine channel ? 🤔
3bratsGrey nomads? Have to agree about using something bigger/heavier for 2.5T van.
Dosent help that all new caravans are very heavy compared to older 80/90s models. I have an older 1990 jaco 12ft StarCraft weight 750kg tare. Easy tow with RAV4. Modern day equivalent is like 1600kg tare. Too heavy and an upgrade to a larger tow vehicle needed.
JOHN just a quick question why have you not included a Mahindra twin cab 4x4 in any of your tests or videos. I am on my second one ,they punch well above their weight when towing and they are hard to kill. Fuel economy not quite as good as the others at twice the price
yes they are hard to kill but they also kill you more easily !
Prado with GVM upgrade. Job done
A gooseneck hitch gets the load over the rear axle and eliminates yaw and sway
You need a gooseneck van hitch
The Yanks figured this out a long time ago. Unfortunately, fifth wheeler caravans are hard to find in Australia, and even hard to sell when you're finished your lap.