The Prince of Egypt from Pharaoh's POV
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2022
- In both history and cinema, Pharaoh is made out to be a one-dimensional evil villain, a monster with no conscience. Today, through the classic animated film the Prince of Egypt, we explore his psychology to determine if there's more to him than we might at first assume.
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Another thing to keep in mind is that Ramses is, on top of the insecurity and existential crisis, having to endure the betrayal of the man he once saw as a brother. He knew Moses from infancy. He grew up with him. He was there during Moses’ most vulnerable moments, maybe even helped him through a time or two. He clearly loved Moses to the point where he’s willing to make up a bold-faced lie to pretend the murder everyone clearly saw happen didn’t happen. And what does Moses do? He runs away, comes back decades later and pretty much tells Ramses through his actions: ‘Oh, btw that entire pantheon you’ve devoted your whole life to and to which your country literally cemented its culture around for thousands of years? It’s all lies. Smoke and mirrors. Now let the my people go.’
It’s little wonder he went completely mental at the end.
Yeah I'd think I'd go a bit mental too I think anyone would. You can't just expect someone to reject the gods they grew up deleting it and may have even had some spiritual experiences with those gods just because your brother that left for a few years comes back and decides to tell you that all your beliefs are suddenly wrong.
And also, God shouldn't have told Moses to say exactly that, God should have told Moses: "Look, the Pharaoh won't believe you if you tell him all of the truth. Tell him to either treat the Israelites better, or to let them go. And tell him that if you treat someone like dog shit, their work is gonna be dog shit."
@@gwendolynsnyder463 If god was nice and all knowing he would have done that
@@gwendolynsnyder463 Maybe they could have spun the plagues as the Egyptian's gods siding with the Israelites and condemning their poor treatment? I read somewhere that pretty much all of the plagues line up with a particular Egyptian god's forte (can't remember which gods for which plagues, srry), and in hindsight it would've worked a lot better and for less bloodshed
Do you think maybe God stopped interfering because He just had no chill and dished out disproportionate retribution?
I, as a historian, can say that in real history Ramses always tried to match and surpass the achievements of his father and the rest of the previous pharaohs. In the movie I think he grew up in an insecure way and the only support he had was his brother Moses and in fact he is very happy when he comes back, that's why he feels so frustrated that Moses didn't want to stay with him, but rather go against him and he unloads all his anger with those who have distanced him from his brother: the Israelites
But did it really happen? It’s just a story. There were not a lot of israelite slaves in egypt and there is no evidence of a mass migration. So we should take it with a grain of salt.
@@lilia8545 i said in the movie. Actually there isn't any probe that egyptians used israelites as slaves. They actually had specialised builders
@@lilia8545 there is speculation that Ramses II did take many of his father's monuments for his own
For instance, Seti I built Karnak's Hypostyle Hall, but only engraved half of it. Ramses II engraved the other half with his own cartouches. It's also thought that the Ramesseum may have originally been a monument for Seti I (even though Seti already had his own temple, so I'm unclear on this).
I always felt bad for the Pharaoh. Never good enough for his father, blackmailed by god
Worse, not good enough for The Picard
@@weldonwin What?
@@AlexSDU Seti, the first Pharaoh and Ramses' father, is voiced by Patrick Stuart, AKA Captain Picard AKA THE Picard
@@weldonwin I see. Thank you.
Yeah...definitely feel.bad for the slaveowner. Not the slaves
Baptist born and raised and I grew up with this film. It is still what comes to mind when I picture the story of Moses. Cinematic Therapy did a video on the Prince of Egypt, looking at the relationship between Moses and Ramses and said that from Pharoah's perspective, his brother left and then came back as a member of a strange cult. They also acknowledge Seti's part in Ramses' actions, particularly the "Weak Link" mentality.
Yeah Ramses basically had no free will or choice in this, even when given the choice his already deeply seeded conceptions and convictions about the world would most likely not come off without some therapy and steer him to choose wrongly eitherway. Honestly why didn't god just talked to him personally and really reasoned with his psyche?
@@enzoarayamorales7220 Because Pharaoh still wouldn't have listened to any other god besides the Egyptian pantheon, even if it was the Lord.
@@enzoarayamorales7220 take note that before Seti (Ramases father) existed, there is a good Pharoah who helped Israel in times of hunger all thanks to Joseph the Dreamer. However, the new pharoah after Joseph's death named Seti changed everything because the Israelites became more powerful.
Thus made Seti cause the root of the problem and he betrays the trust that the previous pharoah had once had over Israelites and also including damaging alone his own son's mental stability.
Yet, it is the decision of his own son to follow his footsteps and basically from Moses's POV, he prioritizes his people first before his own brother because Moses chose to look back where he came from. Also, in fact that he chooses between two sides:
If he chooses his brother over Israel- Israelites will continue to suffer during slavery (and that includes infanticide) for years.
If he chooses the many Israel over his brother- Israelites will be freed and has need to accept the truth about reality and the fate of his brother.
Also, Moses even convinced his own brother to let them go so that God will spare them 10 times. And Israel suffered for 40 years (and just imagine that). Israelites dealt way more trauma than Ramases's mental degradation. However, Ramases continues to hurt himself way more after he changed his plan to capture the Israelites during their escape.
Actually, Ramases is also manipulative in a way for Moses to be away from his own brethren, the Israelites. Even Moses communicated with him several times of the truth, therefore, Ramases tragically suffers in the end of the story.
@@flanafton2344 And God was a murderous psychopath no better than Seti or Ramses'. The lasting trauma imposed on the Egyptians for supposedly righteous reasons from the same God who says "thou shall not commit murder"... shows just how shitty both sides are in this conflict. And Moses manipulates Ramses into his decision in the first place by blackmailing him through the death and suffering of the Egyptians. You can really see the relation there... both not above killing and both thinking themselves above morality. Each manipulated by a different idol, yet nevertheless those idols were both false and cruel, uncaring about the people, just in the power they held.
@@js66613 im not into arguments but with God's given free will just made us get into a trap to betray the creator.
I really dont mind if He is a psychopath or anything else you convince me but I truly respect your perspective but hopefully you guys have a good day ^^
(Pls no arguing here)
The irony of this movie is crystal clear: That admitting that you are wrong is strength (a lesson far to often ignored in society today), and that in trying to be "strong", Ramses ended up weak, in the sense that he was inflexible and unwilling to consider the other way out.
I've studied Ancient Egypt since I was 9. Seti 1 and Ramses the Great were real people, their monuments were how they were remembered. And yes the Pharaoh's believed that when they died they became gods.
But the slaves DID NOT build the structures we all know. Those who did build the monuments, such as the pyramids, were paid workers. There were whole towns built for the workers and their families about 1-5 miles away from the construction sites. The slaves that were in Ancient Egypt typically served in the palace and, while some were mistreated, they were still treated better than most people.
If it were the Ancient Greeks it would be much more cruel and gruesome
Also, there is no evidence there were actually a lot of israelite slaves in egypt. Or that they migrated to israel. Just a story.
@@lilia8545 Can you cite the evidence? I'm curious
I have also done a fair bit of study. And it is to my knowledge that the work camps that we have dug up around the around the pyramids Are taken in conjunction with the hypothesis that such a grand structure would not be built by unpaid and unskilled slaves and that you would require some form of skill the labor and therefore you wouldn't need to pay them.
It is my understanding that The current accepted thing is not proven or could be proved at all there is nothing but mud brick walls that have been buried by sand is a sand for thousands of years left. The only thing that's really being used here as evidence is the thought that you would need skill labor to build it they're just assuming that these structures are where they live and they're just assuming that if they built these structures and they needed skilled labor that they hate these people.
It is to my knowledge that there is no paintings or any hard proof of any kind that these were not slaves. They certainly could have been paid workers but I'm simply here to say that they could have also been slaves and that to push one agenda over the other It is to push some form of ulterior motive because at the end of the day you simply cannot prove one way or the other.
@@lordpowell3788 please read
Thank you for the clearance. Most people do not believe that the Bible is propaganda and a distortion of pure African philosophy that was birthed in the kingdom of Kush.
If these people were enslaved, why would they have 2 Egyptian gods in their identity, ISRAEL ?
IS = Isis/Aset
RA = Sun God
EL = elahim ?
Because the Bible was made in Heliopolis...HELIOS BIBLIOS...HOLY BIBLE.
The corruption of flawless principles supporting basic needs and wants of the the Kemetic natives. The most envied civilization in World History.
Christianity is the only religion which openly admits to drinking the blood of their god, Jesus.
Tell me that's not weird. LMAO
Holding little chips in the air as they say, this is the body and blood of christ.
Constantine and Alexander, thief of Macedonia are to blame for all this.
I'm not religious but I was raised Christian. I grew up with this movie and it's one of the few things I continue to watch now that I'm an adult and atheist. The quality is absolutely amazing in every way. The animation, writing and of course music is all just epic.
But this isn't a veggie tales thing, this movie wasn't made for Christians it was made because its a good story
@@lmads8023 Yet, it was inspired on of Judeo-Christian stories that was aimed for both Jews and Christians.
I'm sorry, are you saying that Christians can't enjoy good stories?
You know the truth, and yet you have forgotten it. You will go to the same hell as Pharoah unless you get right with God. Not being judgemental, just worried about you. Eternity is a long time.
@@RedDawn370 I can't tell if you were trolling just to picture the embodiment of fundamentalist christians or you are one of them...
@@RedDawn370 thanks for the patronizing comment, I will now forget it
I love how people on UA-cam are rediscovering this gem of a film. A true masterpiece that shouldn't ever be forgotten.
The scene when Ramases’ son dies is heartbreaking i felt so bad for him he basically did nothing evil you can feel the anger and grief in that scene
Well said. His father was the one who enslaved the Hebrews and even murdered thousands of babies, but he was not the one having to suffer the consequences. His son, who was pretty much mentally abused and conditioned from a young age, was the one who had to suffer.
Im finally happy someone has the guts to question why a deity punishing his creations just to prove a point is seen as a good thing. When you actually think about it, God often acts like a prom night queen in the bible.
I feel like there are better ways to prove the point god was trying to make in this film without needing to kill anyone.
@@enzoarayamorales7220 well.. he did warn them I mean.. I think even if god told us everything in the universe we would not be able to understand the meaning behind it. Even if it was told to us
@@iwuvpiesgaming9164 That's because all this 💩 is in our minds... There is no evidence of a higher power or any other life forms not of Earth, for that matter.
@@ChineduOpara No evidence but their could be. We don’t know everything on this earth. We are literally just a spec in the universe there’s so much more than we actually know
@@iwuvpiesgaming9164 I agree 100%. And when there's *objective evidence* , we'll know.
I love this movie cause I could tell how hurt the pharaoh is cause Moses was like a brother to him. I just wanted them to be brothers again so bad it was sad
I remember the first time I saw this movie as a child, it was beautiful and moving, and yet when the end came I felt horrible and I never wanted to see it again, it left a terrible impression on me precisely because of some of the things you mention here. The most prominent feeling I had was that the heroes had won, but I couldn't help but feel the way they had won made them no better than their enemies. As an adult I can appreciate this movie a lot more than I could back then, but I still feel that dichotomy of rooting for the heroes while not wanting to be on their side.
Hell! Moses didn't even feel easy about it, which says a lot
As a non-religious non-Christian, THIS FILM IS A MASTERPIECE!!!!! I have learned to appreciate the beauty in great story-telling, even if the story being told is one filled with disaster and tragedy.
But two things have always bothered me:
(1) In the film: Moses should have seen a red-flag when Seti directly told him: "Moses, you will never have to carry a burden like the crown I will pass to Rameses." Moses should have found that odd, because if he was indeed an Egyptian prince, he had every right to inherit the crown if something should happen to his older brother, Ramses.
(2) In the story: After each of the ten plagues occurs, this phrase appears: "And the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, [etc.]" Exodus 9:12. Is this left vague on purpose? Because I have very different feelings towards God depending on the interpretation.
- As depicted in the film, I can understand Rameses stubbornness/determination not to falter - and he states: "Then let my heart be hardened," as an homage to the scripture - until the last plague happens and it is the most devastating, so Rameses gives in.
- In the scripture, there are moments when it looks like Pharaoh is going to concede, but then the same line happens again, his heart is hardened. If God is directly and purposefully hardening Pharaoh's heart, then I believe God wants to showcase the extent of his power regardless of Pharaoh's willingness to concede. However, if Pharaoh is simply processing each event as they occur, and he comes to the same conclusion every time (he wants to stand his ground), then I can understand how the phrase "God hardened his heart" would be interpreted as "Pharaoh's heart was hardened as a result of God's actions."
It's a fascinating line that has the power to change the entire morality of the story. Of course, interpretations come with agendas, might have to learn Greek and Hebrew to get closer to the intended meaning.
Funny enough, the Bible has MULTIPLE moments where God Himself is the one who hardened people, which is what led to the bad stuff happening, the implication being that the Lord actively WANTED the horrible things to happen so He could set an example.
In fact, in some Bible translations and versions, they can't even decide if God does it OR IF THE DEVIL DOES IT.
The worst part about this movie is that it caused me to realize how wonderful Ralph Fiennes singing voice is and that he hasn't sung in a role since.
Ditto! 👍
Though now that you mention it, I am working on an epic miniseries sequel to "The Great Mouse Detective", which I intend to pitch to Disney when I (hopefully) join their company. ^_^
One of the key points of the sequel is that Ratigan & Fidget have both survived their respective falls, & they reform & team up with Basil & his friends, this incurring the wrath of Ratigan's adoptive father -- the spawn of Satan, the scourge of the animal world, evil fursonified, & the REAL OG world's greatest criminal mind...Mouses Fiennes. 😈
And, if Disney ends up loving my miniseries sequel idea, & subsequently gives it the green light -- wish me luck! -- he's going to sing...more than once. I've written three to four songs for Mouses already! ^_^
Of course, none of this has taken place yet as of the time of posting this. But I nevertheless wanted to share with you. ^_^
A good villain is the hero of their own story, this film is a great reminder of that.
If I recall, the Israelites initially wanted to go into the desert to worship and then they would return. Pharaoh doubted they would be true to their word and disallowed it.
Really good video, It puts the Pharoh into a new perspective. While his and the actions of his father may have been evil, he did what he thought was the correct choices to live up to the standard placed upon him by his kingdom and religion as to being a living god. Moses presenting the contrary to everything he believed in, threatened his rule and faith the egyptians placed in him. Its definetly a sins of the father situation that put him in that position.
Slavery was pretty common back then. Sending all those slaves free would probably have severe economical repercussions. I mean, three thousands years later there were actual wars due to the fact of slavery being abolished.
The whole beef God and Moses had wasn't with the fact that Egypt had slaves, it was the fact that the Hebrews were the ones being enslaved.
I am not defending slavery. I am just saying that slavery was universally practiced back then.
funny enough, i dont remember mention of the slaves building pyramids for the pharoah in the bible, just that they were slaves being abused and tortured. this movie took a lot, and i do mean a lot of creative liberties. plus we do have evidence to suggest that egypt wasnt build by slaves, but workers much like in modern times, as slaves tend to be counter productive.
Yep I was going to say the same. It is much cheaper to pay people to work rather than enslave them. Keep in mind the slaveholder has to feed, clothe and shelther his slaves, whereas payed workers have to do those themselves.
Yup. The workers for Egypt were actually pretty well respected and taken care of.
I think the term slave has been connotated differently over time and back then,it was kind of the same as a servant or a cupbearer
At some point, given enough warnings/chances, it's not unreasonable to question your own beliefs just to make sure you aren't in some funky cult. Just because everyone around you is all in it doesn't mean it's correct or the Truth.
Well the funky cult were both sides
There are fine people on both sides. Both sides.
I love this movie BUT even when I was Christian, I always thought it pretty messed up what God did with the pharaoh, hardening his heart so that he could have an excuse to justify killing many innocent people. Pharaoh was ready to let the people go and God prevented him from doing so which defeated the whole point.
OH, and what is also ironic is that the god of the Israelites, is ok with THEM having slaves and murdering many innocent babies and people so they can take their land.
The same sun that melts wax hardens clay.
Also, the people of Canaan were practicing child sacrifice and slavery on a large scale.
Also, also, Israeli "slavery" is not the same form as what we think of It. Under the law "slavery" was closer to indentured servitude. The servants had rights, if you beat your slave then they were automatically freed under the Law of Moses. If you slept with your servant girl she ceased to be a slave and became your full wife. Her children were free and entitled to a full child's portion of the inheritance.
There is more involved but it would take more time than a single UA-cam comment, or dozens, allows.
@@joshuahogan3475 Among the Israelites the status of the Hebrew slave differed from that of a slave who was a foreigner, alien resident, or settler. A non-Hebrew remained the property of the owner and could be passed on from father to son. A Hebrew slave was to be released in the seventh year of his servitude or in the Jubilee year, depending upon which came first. Both ‘Slave’ groups were given wages and there was a possibility of slave’s becoming wealthy and repurchasing himself. During the time of his servitude the Hebrew slave was to be treated as a hired labourer. The Hebrew law protected slaves from brutalities. A slave was to be given liberty if physical abuse or mistreatment caused permanent harm the the slave. As is the case today, there was certainly individuals that manipulated and found work arounds to these laws, and again as is the case today, we blame and prosecute the person, not the law, for injustice.
Today, I happily admit that this type of labour is not as prevalent nor as necessary everywhere but Many if not all “first world countries” benefit greatly from the indentured servitude practiced in “third world countries”. The “middle class” person is not wearing the clothes made by a “middle class” individual. This is not a guilt, though our future progeny will make it seem like it should be, but an unfortunate truth. It certainly is my hope though that current progress will lead to a less indentured future.
There is more nuance to those biblical stories, and is worth the read, if it means gaining salvation.
I think that the reason God had hardened Pharaoh's heart is that previously, Pharaoh had proven to not want to let them go; saying he would and then changing his mind. Us Christians belief God is very patient, but I think that Pharaoh tested God's patience so much that God was fed up with this guy and wanted him either gone or humiliated (idk if Pharaoh died with his army or not in the Sea)
As for allowing slavery, go reexamine it. And as for murdering people for land, that is called war. Idk if it's a war crime today to murder babies (which it probably is) but it wasn't then, and ig it was probably
a) Vengeance as the Canaanites had been doing child sacrifices and murdering people, causing a metaphorical stain on the land
b) Had those babies been left to grow up, they may have caused future problems for Israel. As we can see, Israel didn't kill everyone there, and left some groups and nations to live. Further down the line, that caused them some issues. Now am I saying that child murder is okay in this day and age? No. But I'm trying to provide reasons as to why it happened then, what with my limited understanding.
I’m glad this movie was made with intention of being a good film rather than biblical touting mumbo jumbo.
Truly incredible animation and acting.
Thats what makes it such a good Abrahamic movie I wish more did something like this.
@@Demicleas nah... lot of folks are safer and saner as-is...
@@seand.g423 what? You would prefer gathers pond or something? You have weird taste.
Not really it's full on biblical propaganda.
I’m a muslim and we always watched this. Moses is also our prophet same thing for the jews. They took inspiration from all the Abrahamic books
Egypt was not built by slavery. Most of their structures were built voluntarily or as a form of tax. Those uneducated workers can learn new skills when they join for the public works that Egypt builds and those workers then spread the skills they learned to their community when they return home. It wasn't just pyramids they built public buildings, roads, farms and granaries. Its just that the pyramids were the only things that survived.
This is like when I first learned about cults. I thought, what about the children that will grow up in that community. Growing up conditioned to believe that your community leader is a God. Saving these children and telling them our version of the truth would be like Pharoah's situation. It'll be like asking the person to drop everything he/she was tought from birth and believe your words instead. Everything you say to try and convince that person will only confirm his beliefs further because the cult leader has already placed ideas on their minds like example evil and non believers will always claim that I'M wrong and will try their best to tempt you.
So to answer answer the question what I would do if I were in Pharaoh's sandals?Well, that time I would be "aware" of the presence of other Gods. Seeing the sea split can be very convincing especially that I, a God, can't even split a pond. That'll convince me that whoever helped Moses was a stronger God. So I'd let them go.
But then that would make me think, if that God is all powerful, why can't it kill me instead? Why go through all this circus magic. I lost my son because of this. So it's an all out war now!
I'll send my army to the other side. Have that rebellious brother of mine executed on site. Something I should have done myself back when he and my court magicians where having a show down. And have the rest of them march back to my kingdom. 😆
And then your army drowns in the red sea. D'oh!
@@Angelalex242 If I'll say I'll cross my army by ships, you're just going to say God is going to do this and that... this won't end. 🤣
@@DanBrianGerona True enough. But I think the idea is, you can't beat the God who decided how many breaths you would take and how many beats your heart would take before you were born. For thus is it written in the New Testament: Matthew 10:28 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
An overlooked part of this story is this. It's God who hardens Pharaoh's heart. In the scriptures, Pharaoh wishes to let them go many times, but changes his mind when God hardens his heart each time. This was ordained to be this way, apparently, as God displays his might and sovereignty to the Israelites who come to accept his as their only god (there were Israelites who came to accept Egyptian gods as their own for varying reasons). This was ordained and was actually revealed to Abraham in a vision centuries before.
It makes Pharaoh's position all the more sympathetic, as from a biblical viewpoint, he was only a puppet in the divine grand scheme of things. A chess piece to teaching the Israelites a "lesson" before they were freed.
Edit: I am no longer responding to your circular, long ass think pieces. Cry about it at church on Sunday
and that's the main problem i have with this kind of films, they purpotedly try to put the enemies of God in a bad light as possible...
@@zanir2387 Well, that's how the bible is written. If anything, The Prince of Egypt allows us to see Pharaoh in a different light and we can draw our own conclusions for how he is portrayed. You don't get the sense that Moses is completely correct and you can sympathise with them both. If you think of it, many of God's enemies can be sympathised with, down to Judas the betrayer.
This Is a lie his hearts was always hardened he has free will.
@@trinaruto7231 Exodus 9:12 "But the Lord HARDENED the heart of Pharaoh, and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses".
READ your Bible before you accuse people of lying.
God also told Abraham that his descendants would be enslaved and would leave Egypt with "great possessions" in the vision of the Abrahamaic covenant in Genesis chapter 15. God ordained it that way, centuries before that Pharaoh was born. NONE of this is "free will"
@@Hammie_Hammie God know all action because all action have already been done. Pharaoh with his free will hardened his own heart and god give him permission to do so.
This is dreamworks's best movie
Thank you for that video🖤 love to hear someone is sharing a thought of how deep this theme runs in the movie
I was a young and very enthusiastic atheist when I watched that movie. I only watched it once, didn't think it was that great a film, thought the animation was amazing, and got really angry at a supposedly all-powerful god that was willing to kill innocent children to achieve their own ends.
I'm pretty sure I suffered some kind of trauma from my childhood when I believed in God and in divine punishment. I know I've not been able to watch The Good Place because I got so upset watching the first few minutes of the first episode.
I feel like you need more learning a bit deeper...
@@RandomBeing101 or maybe they don't because they've admitted that they were scarred by religion?
@@RandomBeing101 Dude, no.
@@Moszan I don't see how...
It is ok, you don't have to see anything that triggers you. Just live your life and be happy dear.
I was always kind of on Pharaoh's side after the plagues. I mean...is God really doing anyone a favor by making it look like these easily killable people are causing all this bad stuff? Like what would happened if Pharaoh decided screw it and just genocides all the hebrews? In my opinion, poor planning on God's part.
That was never the point though. God did what he did as punishment towards Pharaoh and his people. God gave them free will, meaning they also had a choice to either stop, or continue ignoring his command. If God decided to just kill them all immediately, then. He would be taking away their free will. There would be no lesson learned from the entire event if he had done that. Also comparing a humans mind to God's is very foolish. We are talking about the creator of the space, time, the very concept of language itself. God's ways are not our ways as it says in the Bible. I would like to think that the creator would know better than his creation. Also God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, meaning there would have been no way for Pharaoh to just say "screw it" and slaughter anybody without God knowing.
@@jakeblitzcoffie4859 I get that, but isn't God also supposed to be loving? I feel like he kind of just...tortured the Egyptians, even the ones who didn't own a hebrew slave or had no control over it. Also, killing all the first borns...those are children who did nothing, yet they have to suffer. Why? Also uh, if God was so concerned about freeing the Hebrews then in his infinite power he could've just made them appear somewhere. I get it doesn't 'teach them a lesson' but I feel like that could've been done later on if anything.
@@outtolunch9216 Yeah, I get where your coming from. Who knows why God does what he does. All I know is that his way of thinking isn't the same as our way of thinking.
@@jakeblitzcoffie4859 Ya that's fair. I believe in something different from the hebrew God, but I do see the justification that God doesn't think how we do. Have a great day! :)
I was a christian before and i remember in religion class, our teacher talked about this topic. Me and few other children were actually horrifed when our teacher told us that the innocent children were killed by a god, the god which we were taught was merciful. We as children could somewhat understand why god was angry but when we asked on why innocent children were killed off in such a brutal way, our teacher just told us that "it was because they were a part of the god's judgement". Honestly watching the movie it reminded me just how cruel a god can be when they are serious about their own goal.
As a kid i was actually happy that God does indeed destroy his enemies who fail yo repent in their ignorance, its not even begging for mercy when in their free will their degeneracy speaks for themselves.
@@tryhardf844 I don't want to say that god himself can't be merciful but why do innocent children and people have to die because of ignorance of their leader?
@@tryhardf844 why do most believes aleays dodge the question? Is it ok to kill innocent children?
@@archnebula i feel you
Wow, what a lovely video. The hypothetical question is such a cool thing to think about. You posed it marvelously I had so much fun watching this video. I’m going to think about this when I rewatch the movie again for the first time in years tomorrow.
Finally someone does a video on this and Yh dreamworls best movie of all time
Ballsy video, Bro. Glad to see that you guys are still putting out quality content.
Watch it get taken down for supposedly doing the spouting...
Good break down. I was raised 1st with "The 10 Commandments", Then later the "Prince of Egypt", Then "Joseph Prince of Dreams" the prequel to Prince of Egypt. All good movies. It really is a matter of perspective. Know that Seti and Rameses are a totally different Dynasty from when the Israelites arrived. They had no idea who they were truly dealing with like the previous dynasty did. Thus being men of the world did what men of the world do. Make gods of themselves. Thus slowly and really pissing off the real God. But is was not all bad for Rameses. After Israel left, he became one Egypt's best pharaoh's.
Egyptian guard, “Do you care if it falls?”
Egyptian guard #2, “What?”
Egyptian guard, “The Egyptian Empire?”
Egyptian guard #2, “Screw it.”
In defense of Pharaoh he’s not any worse than god.
at least Pharaoh didn't kill a guy for having strong 'pull-out game'.
Underrated indeed, animation and story is superb
Ten Gods of Egypt. Ten Plagues showing the death of those gods.
Also,
Following the sixth plague, however, Pharaoh seems to lose his nerve and God steps in, hardening his heart for him. “And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh,” Exodus 9:12
Yes, God is very pushy on how he wants things to happen.
There's a lot of things you don't know about, whatever you might say.
@@RandomBeing101 Same applies to you
It's not really a bad guy if you're basically the leader of one of the most powerful civilizations in human history to have some random desert dwelling goat herder roll up on to you and start telling you what to do
This is pretty much lucky Pharaoh didn't just have him arrested and beaten to death by his gurads in a near by court yard
It's sad that Moses was forced to do what he did
@@feistybearproductions6478 God a dick for setting it all up
Pharaoh really should have relinquished his pride after the meteors or the fiery ice firing down from the sky thats for sure although ı seriously felt saddened by the death of his Son
To this very day as a 30 year old that scene tugs at by heart .. Innocent boy
@@JayNit2 agreed
Great video as always. I don't always agree with you, but I always value your ability to consider a matter in a way that I didn't, and thus, improve however slightly, and not definitely, but hopefully, my ability to think, and reason, and have empathy for an adversary. Thanks. Humanity First!
I love when the algorithm shows me such interesting videos
The thing that ticks me off, is God flat out tells Moses " I will harden his heart, and he will not listen..." That's on God, not Pharaoh God hardened his heart. I don't blame Pharaoh at all.
He says that in the bible, not in the movie
@@feistybearproductions6478 he says it in the movie, too.
@@Batkoku He says" But Pharaoh will not listen"
@@feistybearproductions6478 hmmm..honestly it's been a long while since I've watched it. Have to re-visit that. Feet to the fire I would say he said that.
I sympathised him since childhood, I've never looked at him like he's bad or whatever. I love complex morally ambiguous/gray characters.
If anybody noticed also, despite everything, Ramses never laid a finger on Moses. Not that it justifies his actions, he was an awful person in this movie, but he clearly had unconditional love for Moses his brother. He was abusive though but despite it all I noticed he never once tried to harm, enslave, kill Moses directly.
i would ask the Egyptian gods for a sign, a counter to the israil god's plagues
but if there is no sign, no counter, no divine act in my favor? "i guess the blood of gods has dried out with me or maybe it dried up long ago and we just never realised it... your people are free to go, as i have much to do not as a God but as a King"
but if there is an act in counter to there god then "it seems we are in a stalemate, let the gods in the heavens settle this brother and whoever's god or gods is the victor we shall follow"
Oh man that would be a cool movie. I'd call it clash of the gods as a wink wink nudge nudge to clash of the titans.
Even as a teen I sided with Ranses the Pharaoh. There's a part of the bible, I don't remember if it was included in the movie, but it reads something like: "And let his heart (the Pharaoh's) be hardened, thus a way to learn." Or something wihin that context, that heavily implies the war Ranses was fighting was rigged since the beginning, because God already arranged The Pharaoh to not believe, to not listen to his brother, to see fire falling from the sky and not gape in disbelief. The poor guy had no chance.
i readed that part too.
@@zanir2387 I reeeededed that part too
slavery
there's a part in the plagues song where rameses sings "then let my heart be hardened" which is probly a nod to that. this movie is so clever!
Not to mention that God also made the Pharaoh go after the Hebrews simply to further show his power.
"Remember Cain and Abel? In the Bible the two brothers made offerings to God. Abel offered the lord some lamb chops, Cain gave him some weetabix or some shit. Naturally, God liked Abel's offering a lot more, so Cain dis-abeled his brother by murdering him with a fucking rock. God was very unhappy with Cain - for killing his brother? Nah, God didn't give a shit about that; Cain's crime was killing his brother, and then having the audacity to lie to God. In the Bible, God punishes Cain to wander the Earth. In Vampire The Masquerade, God punishes Cain...by giving him superpowers."
God: CAIN. FOR CRIMES AGAINST YOUR CREATOR AND YOUR FELLOW MAN, I SENTENCE YOU TO IMMORTALITY. YOU ALSO GET SUPER SPEED (bing!) AND SUPER STRENGTH (bing!) YOU CAN ALSO TURN INVISIBLE...UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO POLYMORPH AS WELL? SOMETIMES I LIKE TO TURN INTO A BURNING BUSH AND SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF MOSÉS.”
hey hey people...
You do realize that you're not making sense, right?
@@RandomBeing101 Guess you've never watched SethTzeentach before, huh?
Throw on his review for Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines and enjoy the show. 🦞🥃
I'd like to think God is a Synthetik Engineer main. Why? He/It is Insane and Unhinged
This (and A Little Princess) is a movie one of my best friends and i watch together, around 1 - 2x a month. There was a symphony that came to Toronto and performed the music from this movie... my best friend didn't know beforehand (her grandmother would make her go to the symphony soooo many times a year) and took her brother instead of me. it's been years... and it still hurts. Great vid btw!
Thanks Alysia 😁
Odd how God always seems to need a middle man when dealing with humans
because we have fallen and were separated from him.
@Luis guzman torrente Me thinks doth protest too much.
@@daveanthony7431 in dragon ball , the main character was able to communicate from the after life with his living family and friends with the help of a mid level God he trained under , he would put his hand on the deity shoulder and the deity would use himself like a radio , using physick power , allowing the hero to talk directly into the minds of his living family and friends.
This was used many times!
But your god relies on means of communication no more advanced than what is within the technology knowledge of humans at any point in time.
Word of mouth and books!
So your god is dumber than a middle aged manga creater
No, it's not that he needs that, it's that he WANTS that. He wants to use us to do good and see us grow stronger from our experiences. Yes he could do it all himself, he is God after all, but then we don't grow or learn anything meaningful.
@@jakeblitzcoffie4859 dose that include WW1 & WW2 the Holocaust , bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki vitamin war , and Iraq and Afghanistan
** Egypt didn't use slaves to erect their monuments. It was a state program that every able bodied person was required to participate in between the planting and harvesting seasons.
The killing of a generation isn't justifiable by any stretch, but it is understandable. Slaves are always a looming threat without the proper control, so genocide is unfortunately one of the insane solutions you could do. However the best solution is to never even have slaves in the first place... at the very least not that many.
Still technically have to outnumber you to be worth having...
But yeah, maybe not Sparta-level...
i never watched the movie myself but it looks interesting .
if i where the Pharaoh and saw a good deal of people wanting to go free insted of risking a up riseing of some kind i would give them one last command .[ build a tomb worthy of a god and your people shale be freed ]
that way egypt grows and with little to no cost to his country and the people will have earned there freedom .
4:48 More recently the historical record is being re-examined. Archaeological findings have shown the pyramids, monuments, and the like, were built by a paid, well fed and skilled workforce.¹
I'm not an expert, I just had a number really amazing articles and papers thrust before my eyes by my archaeologists daughter. 😏🤷🏼♂️
*EDIT:* That said, I still really like watching _The Ten Commandments_ from time to time, and this film is an absolute gem!
··•✺•··
¹ ─ Again, I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall that it was also believed to be _seasonal._
The Israelite slaves weren't building pyramids, they were building houses. It's pretty clear that they were making mud bricks (not used in pyramids).
@@KlingonCaptain So they were still slaves its just that the roman or future jewish writers most likely embelished the story or something to make it seem worst still bad but yeah.
@@greatninja2590The story of Exodus is a fabrication. The Hebrews were just a group of canaanites that developed their religion to differentiate themselves from their neighbors, and make themselves feeel superior. Most of their traditions (circumcision, restrictions on pork, etc) were developed for that purpose.
The story of Exodus was a combination of the stories of Sargon of Akkad and Hammarabbi, but changed to make Hebrews a special group.
There was also a bit of racism involved, claiming the achievements of the Egyptians as their own with the implication that the Egyptians couldn't have made those achievements. This is the same kind of thought process that creationists in the US apply when they claim that the mounds and monuments in the Americas were created by an extinct fictional race of white giants.
The story of Noah is a similar fabrication, based on another story.
There was a particular flood around the city of shuruppak where a man and his livestock were washed out to sea on their river boat. The man survived and this became a popular story to share around the middle east (the Epic of Atra-Hasis). The story got exaggerated over time to a world-wide flood, and the Hebrews took that version of the story and rewrote it for their culture.
Another interesting note about the Epic of Atra-Hasis is that it was written into later editions of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the Epic of Atra-Hasis by hundreds of years.
@@chrishakala528 no one in the bible is real until king David beyond
It’s hard to say what one would do in someone else’s shoes, especially in someone whose shoes wandered in another time, place and culture so far removed.
I’m of a rather practical and logical mindset. I think that I, if I was convinced I was of a holy lineage, would probably opt to eliminate the source of the problem before things got so far out of hand. Ramses actually had far more patience than I probably would’ve had. "Would their ‘God’ come to their aid if they were all dead?" Would probably be a question that would pass my mind before getting 2-3 plagues in. From my current view of things, I wouldn’t enslave nor kill another human being, aside from in self defense for the latter part. But if I was indeed an Egyptian Pharaoh, I’d make Seti look like a pushover and clean the slate, most likely.
Awesome take
hey generation films i love your the top 6 space marines | best space marine series video my request can you do a top 10 power armor in series from video game and movie feat halo starship troopers
Its beyond high quality. Its hands down one of the best animated films EVER. MADE. and one of the most well handled films ever made. Its literally top tier
When a tribe refused to kneel to Ghengis Khan, he ordered every man taller than a wagons axle be put to death
I always wondered why God hardened his heart and could have chosen less sadistic methods.
*Grabs popcorn*
The bible version of the pharaoh is even more of a tragic character in that he is merely a pawn in the wrath of Mose's god.
He intends to let the israelites go free twice before the final plague, but god revokes pharoah's free will in both instances and forces him to not let them go.
No he doesn’t what are you even talking about 😂😂
Being Objective, if I was the Pharaoh of that day when the Sahara was Green and the Egyptian Empire extends from the West to the East of all of North African continent. I would be sceptical of Moses's warning and consult with the Priests and even warn them that I know my Brother and if his warning is fulfilled (The First Plague) I will immediately set the Hebrew people free at the cost of my Sovereignty as the Pharaoh so my father's legacy can live on.
I choose a third course: to free the Hebrews, but gradually; first enacting protections to improve their conditions, then decreeing they be paid for their work and allowed to hold property, and finally, when their material condition under me is not much different than any of my subjects, removing that final technical difference, and granting them the freedom to stay or go as they please. Some will go, but some will stay, and thus enough will remain to keep my kingdom strong.
A good answer but you're chancing that they put their grievances behind them, that they won't desire retribution for sins that cannot be undone.
@@GenerationFilms - The ones who don't want to forgive probably won't stay. The ones who stay will be more likely to be willing to compromise.
Nice perspective 🙂 👍
You seem to have forgotten that there was a mechanism that God put in place that even would have saved the Egyptians from the plague of the firstborn.
The Egyptians didn't know that tho only the slaves knew that because Moses told them. You can't agree to a plan you don't fucking know about
"You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim, but to your people, freedom is just as essential as air, and without it, there is no life."
so cool man
This is one of the only films that were approved to play during "movie time" while in Catholic School growing up.
Bro really killed thousands and mfs still feel bad💀
Well, I as Pharao would have simply said: "Well, lets return to the true, old ways: fair labor by free people who dont have work otherwise before the harvest, everyone gets paid with beer - everybody happy! Well, except for Moses! He had enogh if he is already talking with bushes"
Acts of evil are often misunderstood.
Like Vlad the impaler? I mean he's litteraly called the impailer.
@@Demicleas dont the people under his rule loved him?
I rewatched the moive again with my younger brother and this time I felt so hard for pharoh. And it was so hard to watch because of that. But that stubbornness got him. He was set in the ways of his people. And wasn't feeling the change and he had his reasons( he reminds me of those people who are so set in something that's actually toxic but they don't realize that it is and you just can not change their mind) Ofc he thought he was doing what was right for his people and after finally becoming the king his father needs him to be. His brother comes back. And not for him but for his rag-tag slaves? Sheeesh. He's hurt.
Tbh I would free the Issriltes. Especially with the way the places hit. If their God could do that. Why not. If I'm going to be the butt of my father's shame. What else have I got to lose? Or really befor that I'd talk to Moses. Like my man has changed. What's he been through to be like this? And the plages. Them things were causing my people to suffer. I'm out the moment the locasts came. I can't Handel bugs like that. Take them and Go. I don't need slaves. Slaves? What slaves. I'm finding locasts in my food. I'm done Your God can have my worship and praise. Top of the food chain. 💀
the bible itself says that pharaoh relented and told moses to leave around the third or fourth plague but god "hardened" his heart and made him say no over and over. finally when god didn't bother hardening pharaoh's heart, god instead made pharaoh and his followers chase the israelites only to have them drown! And that's a loving and compassionate god, one that wants more and more brutal revenge on your enemies
@this city is really a city i guess it depends on the edition of the bible, the one I read had god forcing pharaoh to charge down, hardenig his heart or something
You know, in our Hebrew language there is a proverb that says "There is no bad person, there is a person that bad to him" (hope I wrote it well) And it's true, it's not that Ramses was a bad person, he just went through a lot! Being an heir and king is a nightmare job! And the only person he loved so much all his life hurt him so much! Personally, I also saw Moses as the bad in the story. I mean, like,so you disagree with Ramses, But you were everything to each other, so at least consider words! At least show that you appreciate what you had. He just caused Ramses to perish in more pain despite his (Moshe's) good intentions.
I am a Christian and was raised, I can't help but wonder about the writers of the old testament and the context.
Learning about ancient cultures and philosophy can help.
Greatest film to have ever been made
I always like stories where it is easy to imagine either side being the good or bad side depending on your perspective.
Honestly, when I watched this movie, there wasn’t any good guy or bad guy on either side. I mean, there is a lot of redeeming opportunities for the pharaoh. What drove him mad in my POV was that his (adopted) brother/friend ran away from him, the death of his father, and losing his only child.
nice take
@Generation Films: need to make a historical nitpick, and absolve Seti from ordering enslavement and killing... As his rule was too brief for him to having been in charge. Likely the same for his father Rameses I, founder of the 19th Dynasty. On the other hand, Horemheb, last of the 18th, was known for his violent reaction to the legacy of the Amarna period, that had seen Egypt almost torn apart when the Pharaoh, Akhenaten, tried to impose a monotheistic religion... Whose symbol appears in the film during Moses' dream of the killing of the children.
As a certain UA-cam serial channel host is fond to say, the past is the worst.
There is no defense when you go against The Almighty.
It's just an unfortunate event realy. I mean though the Pharoah is at fault for the death of his son and other people, it was his job to do so in honor of his father who is corrupt. I guess that's what hapens when you refuse to do the right thing just to please your destiny your father has passed down to you. You care more about your father's legacy than your people. He had it coming, but it's a tragic one that you can't help but feel bad for him since he's still wrapped around his dad's fingers even after his death
I mixed Sabaton's Final Solution with Prince of Egypt
The saddest thing about Pharaoh was that he was clearly trying to let the Israelites go, but God would not let him.
For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
(Romans 9:17-18)
It wasn’t even his fault that he opposed God: God hardened his heart so that he would act against him. That way he can show Egypt whose boss.
That’s not what it meant-
Don't fogett, Pharao (never named in the Bible) wanted to let them go multiple times, but god always hartened his heart and changed his will. God activly took pharaos free will, to keep the Israelites longer enslaved and then changed paharos mind to go after them. It's a silly story and rather evil.
Also Isralites weren't slaves in Egypt.
The Israelites were slaves?
It had to happen this way.. the blood of the lamb on the doors as a symbol of salvation. Otherwise we would have never understood the prophecy that God gave us about a lamb coming to save us, which at the end was Jesus that through his blood shed on the cross saved us from sin. Same happened to the lambs that were sacrificed that night, their blood painted on the doors saved the Israelites. Don’t you understand ?
Do not forget that some time before Joseph rises to second after Pharaoh and essentially enslaves all of Egypt and attempts to raise his own people.
So they kind of proved them right.
One of the best parts of this whole movie is that it is incredibly true to the Bible and does not take liberties that contrast with it in showing how the Pharaoh would view the situation. Really a great work of art.
Gundam videos would be as great as the Star Wars videos
long after Moses had already given up on him, Ramses still called him brother
“once i called you brother”
“you who i call brother”
Please make videos on the gundam series
I second this!
...at some point, common sense must prevail. Hardening your heart against a God raising burning hail on you is not common sense. Know when to fold em, as they say in gambling.
Some respect
Hey American Ben. Hope you’re keeping hydrated in your closet. Thank you for another great video.
Wow
1. From Seth's view in the movie:if iraelite birthrate is the danger (possible population displacement) , why not exile them in the first place? Or exile only the surplus, by only allowing a certain number of them in each community? That would've solved the issue without threat to ones authority.
2. According to the source material(Bible) Pharaoh didn't even have a choice, because he was mind controlled by big G so he could prove his d... power over the Egyptian gods.
3. Reminder that this whole story is fiction and there isn't a shred of archaeological evidence for any of this.
Yup the whole thing is fiction and has not a shread of evidence to back it up. If a that whole thing happened it would of been written about everywhere yet there's nothing written at all.
@@lunawolfheart336 Was that an attempt at sarcasm or actual agreement?
As much as I love this movie, I highly doubt that the Pharaoh of the Exodus was Rameses. If anything, the Pharaoh was most likely one of the Hyksos who invaded Egypt after the Middle Kingdom Era and before the New Kingdom Era.
I say that because the thing about being a slave among actual Egyptians isn't the same form of slavery we think of today. Egyptians still had to treat their slaves well because to abuse them went against their principles of Ma'at. Also, a slave could own their own piece of land, have their own homes, marry and raise their own children with the children being allowed to have their childhood.
Also, it would seem that during the tail end of the Middle Kingdom Era, there was a time where Egypt had TWO kings. One that was Egyptian from the Upper Kingdom and the other likely being Canaanite of the Lower Kingdom. This is basically the 13th Dynasty and the 14th Dynasty sharing Egypt at the same time.
Very soon after this, the Hyksos invaded and brought with their iron and chariots. I firmly believe that once the Hyksos took over all of Egypt, they must have imposed their own ways of life to some degree and likely became tyrants.
It just makes the most sense to be because even among Egyptians, a slave or a servant could take their Masters to court and even hope to win their case. They could report them for abuse and even rape because Egyptians believe that only Justice kept the forces of Chaos that they were so terrified of in check.
I don't know whether or not it was a Hyskos ruler or not but I totally agree that it probably wasn't Ramesses who was the pharaoh of exodus.
The reason is that he was one of the greatest Pharaoh's, and the pharaoh who Moses spoke to was one who suffered plagues, loss of slaves and loss of some military in the sea. That would have been a pharaoh under whom there was a big decline in status for Ancient Egypt, and Ramesses was definitely not that, as far as we know
@@RanjitSingh-em7lx The reason I strongly think it was a Hyksos ruler was because Egypt didn't have chariots until they invaded. I think back to the Bible and if I am not mistaken it is said that Pharaoh chased after the Hebrews on chariots which werebthen swallowed up by the sea.
Now, I do take into account that the Bible has been translated over and over again for centuries and much of it could have been mistranslated or had stuff added on years after the event. But if we are to take it at face value, then the only thing that makes sense to me alongside all the previous stuff I mentioned then Hyksos seems the most logical explanation.
WAIT DAUGHTER I THOUGHT THAT WAS HS WIFE!!!!
I love this movie because you don’t have to be religious to enjoy it! I’m agnostic and I LOVE this movie. Def in the top five. The animation is stunning and the story of beautiful.
3:19 true, there is never a need to kill or murder. There isn’t a need for slaves either.
How can the Jews be sure that their God is not the Demonic Dragon Lizard of the Dinosaur Era !?
Hahahahahahaha what
@@wolfkitty42 Evidence that YHWH was a Dragon
If he were a dragon, I'd convert immediately
No I’m just like first off what’s the dragon lizard second which era???