This version of the Sound of Silence is the original version by Simon and Garfunkel and the dongs were in the theatrical version and they were much bigger on a 70ft screen.
I remember there was so much nervous laughter in the theater every time Dr. Manhattan showed up. I get what Snyder was going for by having him be naked, but he probably should've just had him wear the speedo for the whole movie. Maybe had a throwaway line where John said he was just wearing it for the sake of keeping up the appearance of decency or something.
The casting for Rorschach was perfect, Jackie Earle Haley looks exactly in the film like the character did in the book, though to be fair practically all of the characters do, the casting and costuming in this film was simply fantastic. And yeah, Kovacs was short, and shorter than his alter ego; when he was captured the police were surprised to find out he was wearing shoe lifts (and it's quite surprising that more masked vigilantes / superheroes aren't known to wear them... if you want to look imposing and superhuman wearing something that makes you look taller seems like the thing to do).
a good example is the movie "Phantasm" where the main antagonist was called the tall man and he was super imposing, especially since they made him wear shoe lifts and suits too small for him even though his actor Angus Scrimm was already quite tall
My first degree was in philosophy, and I loved how Rorschach was a perfect embodiment of Deontology (the Categorical Imperative). "Do your duty, even if the heavens should fall."
Fun fact: all of the American flags in this movie have 51 stars on them, alluding to the fact that in this timeline, Vietnam became the 51st state after Dr. Manhattan won the war for America.
yeah Puerto Rico is next in line to be a US state. Vietnam would have just been another Philippines, basically a US military colony to project American power in south east Asia.
Best line in the movie is "You think I'm locked in here with you. You're wrong. You're locked in with me." I remember getting chills way back when I read that in the graphic novel and it is delivered almost exactly as I heard it in my inner voice. And yes, Rorschach's character was diminutive in the book.
I love that George said "oh he's gonna have a rough time in here" right before finding out no, THEY are going to have a rough time with him in there. Perfect setup for that line.
The long Dr. Manhattan sequence/origin story is probably my favorite single sequence in the movie. The music perfectly aligns with the narrative build up and how he occasionally jumbles the linearity is a nice look into how he's come to see time in general now.
localroger It’s actually a sort of composite of “Pruitt Igoe” and “Prophecies” from the same score (though, in all fairness, “Prophecies” is sort of a coda and shares a lot of similarities with the title track)
Disturbed's version of "The Sound Of Silence" wasn't released until 6 years later from this film's release. That's why. I still prefer their choice because it not only fits the timeframe, it fits the mood. This was the original goth music.
I don't think any film has managed to bring together so many conflicting ideologies. Each character is essentially an archetypal embodiment of a particular moral viewpoint. Rorschach is the deontological absolutist, who adheres to an iron code of black v white. Ozymandias is the rational consequentialist, for whom the ends justify the means. The Comedian is the nihilist, who says nothing matters so might as well revel in the absurdity, and Dr Manhattan the strict determinist who holds that since the position and momentum of every particle in the universe at any given moment is a predetermined event due to the laws of physics, free will is an illusion and debates on morality are pointless since the future is fixed and we have no choice. Yet it somehow does all this without diluting the archetype by making them real people with real flaws, who don't always adhere to their own standard.
They also each embody different mental disorders and personality types: The Comedian has an anti-social personality, Nite Owl an avoidant personality that he can only shed when he wears his costume. Dr. Manhattan embodies schizoid personality disorder. Ozymandias is a textbook narcissist. Rorschach has autistic traits and a borderline personality and he obviously suffers from PTSD.
The characters in this story are ‘original’ to it because when Moore was first writing the story, DC Comics wouldn’t let him us the recently acquired characters from the defunct Charlton Comics that he wanted to use. The characters are still all dark reflections of characters that are these days well established DC characters. Dr Manhattan is based on a character named Captain Atom, Silk Spectre is based on the Phantom Lady, Rorschach is based on the Question, Ozymandias is based on Peter Cannon ‘Thunderbolt’ (actually no longer a DC character), both Night-Owls are based on a series of characters named the Blue Beetle, and probably best known these days the Comedian is based on Peacemaker. The same character that John Cena has been playing in the HBO MAX series to great acclaim. -notes from a giant comic nerd
Yep, glad someone brought that up. DC's Phantom Lady has always been one of my favorite characters. I LOVE the really minor C and D list characters who just show up to fill out pages.
Yes - people usually connect Nite Owl to Batman due to his similar look and style of hero-ing, but he really is Blue Beetle. His owl ship is a literal exact copy of Blue Beetle's Bug ship, only with a beak instead of insect legs.
Honestly looking back on it now, it makes sense that Nite Owl is based off of Dan Garrett and Ted Kord Blue Beetle. Nite Owl's ship looks similar to Ted Kord's as well. I also could now tell that Rorshach and Question are quite similar but the Comedian being Peacemaker didn't dawn on me until now.
WRT the peace not lasting, there’s a scene in the comic where Jon goes back to talk to Adrian and Adrian says “I did the right thing, didn’t I? In the end?” And Jon replies “‘In the end’? Nothing ever ends.” And that’s the whole idea - Adrian got humanity to that one point, but points in time don’t last. So what happens next?
@@davidking498 Yeah., I agree. It's very faithful to the look of the comic, but is a wholly superficial reading of the book which, given that it's one of the best comics of all time, is a crime. I actually tend to like Snyder and I always try to judge adaptations as their own thing, but I can't watch Watchmen. It's too slavish in some ways while missing the core of the story. It also misjudges some things very badly. A big part of the comic is that Dr. Manhattan is the only thing that changed about that world compared to ours. Everything that makes it different to ours is because of Dr. Manhattan. Simone & Goerge were left wondering here how everybody got their abilities, when the point is that they don't have any. They shouldn't be exhibiting preternatural abilities (except, perhaps, for the bullet catch). The fight in the alley should be brutal and rough with their years of training being their only advantage, not slow-motion ballet where they exhibit their superior strength. And no rape scene should be edited to look cool in slow-motion. There's a lot more I could say, but Snyder's style was completely the wrong fit for the story and he's too superficial a filmmaker to adapt something like that.
Nailed it. That line is the thematic ending of the story, the clock strikes 12 and continues around. It's absence in the movie (along with the Black Freighter 'I have a dream...') completely changes the theme.
@@davidking498 Actually he did (Laurie says the line about "Nothing ever ends). He just added the concepts of love, friendship and understanding being present in a world in chaos.
I loved the inclusion of George Carlin in your reaction. For a great movie with George, please watch the 1999 film Dogma. Also starring, Alan Rickman, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Chris Rock and Salma Hayek.
I hear that's actually difficult to find digitally/streaming.¹ That aside, there appears to be a full version available on UA-cam for free right now. Someone uploaded it two years ago, and there it remains. I tried watching it, and it is available to view. . .at least in the US. ··•✺•·· ¹ ─ _"Disney owned Miramax in 1999,"_ Smith answered in a tweet. _"Dogma was catching heat from the Catholic League so Disney let the Weinsteins buy the movie themselves (they still personally own the film). Lionsgate released theatrically & Sony did home video. But Digital didn't EXIST yet when the deal was struck."_
Boy does George have a fixation on body parts and giggling. Almost the response of an adolescent 🤣 So glad that got better with giggling and laughing at everything in their later videos. It's what kept me on their patreon site. 😎
There's an even longer version that includes segments of an animated short film. The actor playing young Rorshach is Zack Snyder's son, who also played a young Leonidas in 300
The Ultimate Cut is available on blu ray. Not only does it include the Tales Of The Black Freighter animation; which has been edited into the film as it is in the novel, there’s further deleted scene that are missing from the directors cut
@@MattKayser it’s definitely one for the fans amongst us. Don’t get me wrong, the theatrical cut was great & Synder’s attention to detail in accurately recreating frames from the novel is incredible. But the Ultimate Cut just turns everything up to 11 & its by far, one of the greatest adaptation of a graphic novel.
@@davidanderson1639 agreed, though I wasn't a big fan of the theatrical version. I should clarify that the Ultimate Cut is the only version I can watch because, after seeing that one, I see no point in going back to the others. It's not a perfect adaptation of the book, and I have my issues with it, but it's the closest we'll ever get. The comic was written as a comic and it'll never get translated exactly to film, with all of the nuances intact, that's impossible... but again, the UC is the closest we'll ever get. I really like it for what it is.
If he treats his family life like he gives them movie roles, some things happened around him begin to really make sense. I’m a father of three and I never ever would write and shoot scenes like this with one of my kids…
"Look upon my blue dong and despair". Even if Manhattan's behavior during sex is understandable rationally for what he is, I'd say that from his partner's point of view there's a human need for undivided attention and sharing that intimacy. It just highlights how far removed he is from our perspective. The graphic novel came out in 1987 and along with Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, it basically coined the whole term "graphic novel". It's a stand-alone story from Alan Moore's point of view (novel, not a franchise), even though decades later other writers made sequels and the tv show. The movie is a surprisingly faithful adaptation although it has to omit a lot of stuff (and change some).
@@technopirate304 I’m not a fan either tbh. Overall the film isn’t my thing. Snyder’s version hits most important story points but misses most of what I love about the original.
Right, Dr. Manhattan is supposed to be symbolic of nuclear weaponry as a whole (hence his name): full of limitless destructive power, but cold and inhumane, unfeeling. Having Laurie try in vain to get him to feel something was Alan Moore's way of scoffing at people who tried to make sense of, or find something good in, nuclear weapons. This movie is absolutely dripping with symbolism.
@@EmperorSmith Since this came out as a 12 issue mini series of comics I agree. Frank Miller's Ronin broke the mold of the old style comics in 83/84. It's popularity ushered in comics like The Dark Knight Returns and Who Watches The Watchmen. I remember them coming out. They were different everything DC and Marvel put out at the time. Independent publishers had already gone to dark and gritty titles just to get followers who were tired of the same old stuff they read every month.
I find it necessary that we take a moment to appreciate an additional layer here. The line that George so fittingly parodied -- "Look upon my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!" -- comes from a poem by Percy Shelley titled... drumroll, please... "Ozymandias." Not sure if he did that on purpose or not, but good show either way 👏👏
One of the best examples of "Super Heroes as humans" stories. Imperfect, morally grey or even dark, different motives. It's a very dark story obviously. Memorable because when this hit, most other comics were Superman / Spiderman pure good guy icons vs the evil bad guys.
If we talking about the comic it's more than that, it's trying to say how ridiculous and dangerous the idea of superheroes it is... the movie is kind of a failure because to some degree it's glorifying superheroes while critisizing them at the same time. I supposed Alan Moore was fed up... his story is not supposed to have those slow motion fightings and Hollywood tricks to please audiences with special effects and frenzy visuals. In order to keep the comic essence the movie should've been much more rough and unpolite with those contradictory aspects. But it's impossible, just imagine a superhero movie without spectacular fights and "cool" suits and gadgets
I feel this world would not handle superheroes well. Don't get me wrong, they'd be championed as strong people or those who can command tremendous forces, but the flip side is the establishment already here. The people who cling to power here would do everything to being down those who would disrupt their rule. Example of the billionaires, who could very well pay news outlets to spin stories in a bad light. Gods would be reprimanded for abandoning those in need, while the people responsible are not held accountable. The mighty torn down for even the slightest mistake. All in all, the last thing this world needs is a superhero.
@@JulioLeonFandinho I mean if the superheroes we see the most of, we have a total asshole (comedian), an insane person (Rorschach), a well intentioned mass murderer (ozymandias), someone who struggles to even relate to humanity (Manhattan), and two normal people who just want to do good (Silk Spectre and Night Owl). I don't think it was trying to glorify them just that Rorschach is so cool people forget just how insane he really is. Also the minutemen (aside from comedian) seemed like regular do-gooders from what little we saw of most of them
@@JulioLeonFandinho the whole point of the Watchmen (the clue is in the name - who watches the watchmen) is that there are no heroes or villains in absolute terms, that's why everyone in the story is fatally flawed. The nearest thing to an actual conventional 'superhero' is Manhattan, who has almost godlike powers - and being godlike has stopped him being able to relate to being human.
@Ben Franklin Isn't he? Seems like a classic twist on the "trolley problem" to me. I still go back on whether he was right or wrong. If the death of everyone is inevitable, as the comic implies, do you let everyone die, or sacrifice millions to save billions? That doesn't feel like a black or white question to me. Either choice is gonna hurt. But I think Id save the billions.
I think Ozymandias was a bit miscast, as the actor had an aura of corporate sleazyness where the comic book one had more gentle appearance and was basically mentally, physically and by looks "a perfect man".
And it's ok to call Watchmen a "comic book." It was a comic book before it was collected into a Graphic Novel. It was published in 12 individual issues as a limited series in 1986 and 1987.
Yes, Rorschach in the food line at the prison has one the most bad ass lines ever - " I am not locking here with you, you're locked in here with ME!" What statement.
8:28 "99 Luftballons" is really a very appropriate song for this movie if you read the English translation. Toy helium balloons are released by the singer/narrator, are misidentified by the military on radar and trigger a nuclear war.
I found out about this movie before its release, but knew nothing about it, so I bought the graphic novel. SERIOUSLY one of the best I've ever read. Time Magazine named it as one of the 100 best novels of the 20th century, and rightfully so. . I was not prepared for how dark it was, nor how much of a genius Alan Moore truly is. The director's cut leaves in some great moments that the theatrical version doesn't, so I'm glad you guys watched that one. This is fairly faithful to the source material, except for the act that destroys New York. Which didn't really shift the tone of the ending, just the means. And yes, the sex scene and the blue dongs were all over the theatrical run.
This movie was ahead of its time for sure. Turned the superhero genre on its head and gave us a more mature, adult film with a dark and epic story built around the archetype of the complex characters and their ambiguous moral views.
I love this film, unfortunately many people bashed it as not being a superhero movie. Superheroes don't act that way. I rolled my eyes every time I heard that complaint.
With the exception of Dr Manhattan, none of the characters in the graphic novel had superpowers. They were just really good fighters, and some of them had really good weapons and gadgets. The fact that their movie versions can punch though cement and throw bad guys across a room like ragdolls is mostly down to the fact that Zack Snyder is about as subtle as a bag of rocks. Don't get me wrong - he did a brilliant job translating Moore's story to the big screen, and I doubt any other director could have done it better. But there are several moments in this film where I found myself thinking "You just couldn't help yourself, could you Zack?"
The power levels is one of my two issues with the film, as well as the costumes. Zack made the "normie" heroes almost too cool for school, whereas Gibbons designed them in a decidedly down-to-earth fashion, with most of them looking like talented cosplayers rather than big-budget heroes. But this remains one of my favorite adaptations ever.
The extra power bestowed on the characters in this particular adaptation is one exception I’m mostly ok with(I’ll stress “mostly”). I think Zack did a decent job showing the characters struggle and fail with the morality/responsibility in using those powers better than most any other comic/graphic novel adaptation. I still would have rather seen something closer to the source material but I think for what the film was attempting to do it did better than I had expected it would.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 This is true (he literally catches a bullet in his hand, after all) but even then his abilities are the result of years of intense training and self-discipline, rather than actual superhuman powers. He's about as close to being a superhero as a human can get without actually being one.
The problem with Allan Moore's Comics is that when they are adapted to film, such as the Watchmen and V for Vendetta, large amounts of the subtext is lost. He writes great characters and because of this the films generally become character driven stories. However, all his stories are multi layered satyrs, this movie is a great example, while the message of using violence to stop violence is seen, the message of the violence of the American dream is barely noted.
The biggest example of movies butchering Moore's vision is 'The League of Extraordinary Gentleman'. The graphic novel was a wonderful subversion of 'The Superhero Group' while also being a wonderful homage to Victorian and Edwardian culture. The movie wasn't even a good action flick.
They didn’t use the Disturbed version of “The Sound of Silence” because the movie preceded it by 10 years or so. Also, the Watchmen exist in the DC universe with the likes of Superman and Batman. Nice reaction!
Lmao, that’s not exactly right. They were published by the same company. With Doomsday Clock, I guess you could say that they exist in the same _multiverse._ But saying that they exist in the same universe would be greatly misleading. This is not AT ALL the way history plays out in the standard DC universe. So much so that most characters in Watchmen are pretty much knock-offs of characters that actually do exist in the mainstream DC universe.
@@leonidaslemonis127 I think he was generalizing for CineBinge's benefit, since they're pretty new to all of this. And as you said, he's not technically wrong. Watchmen is published by DC comics & their characters have appeared exclusively in DC comics, particularly in recent years alongside Superman and the rest of the Justice League. And while their inclusion in the main DC continuity via Doomsday Clock is redundant to say the least (given the actual Charlton characters Watchmen is based on exist as well), that is a reality that lies before us lol.
@@jimhashbrowns3874 I believe that was done for money, so DC could keep control of it and not have to pay the creator. I remember hearing something like, though don’t remember the details. It was in the same discussion as Sony making a Fantastic 4 movie, and different studios controlling different parts of the rights to Star Trek, and the whole Sony/Disney Spider-Man nonsense.
@@MP197742 Kind of. ONe needs to remember that watchmen first came out right as the graphic novel trend was hitting its stride. So in the inital idea for watchmen, Moore was going to use actual popular DC characters, but was asked to use his own instead. The agreement was that after so many years after DC was done printing watchmen, Moore and artist Dave Gibson would get all the rights to the property. But then they reprinted The Dark Knight Returns as. a graphic novel, and it sold gangbusters. They then tried it again with Watchmen, to even more success. Thusly, every time they would start reprinting the material for anniversary editions, or collectors editions, and so on, the timeline for Moore and Gibson own the property kept getting pushed back further and further. Not long after the movie came out, DC offered to give them the rights to Watchmen, with the stipulation that would allow DC to continue to make watchmen stories, to which he refused. It should also be noted that Alan Moore has refused any money owed to him from all of his work that has been adapted into movies.
When it comes to superhero deconstructions Watchmen is still the most comprehensive, tackling just about everything about the genre, to the point where the movie can only really cover the broad strokes. "What if superheroes had real personalities and existed in the real world?" What you find is that costumed fighters aren't very well equipped to tackle the messy political problems of the era, and that multi-faceted "real" people don't make very good avatars of virtue that a hero should be. Rorschach and Ozymandias are the two that come closest to being as dedicated to their principles as a classic comic book hero, but in both cases that's also their greatest flaw. Basically, Alan Moore showcases why comics *shouldn't* be too realistic. It can be an interesting side-track, but it also misses the point.
@@fjparasite1172 As if Dr Manhattan would care for things like nationalism no country wold have him. If someone that powerful ever existed he would either grow inpatient with humanity and leave earth like in the movie, graphic novel or he would establish himself as the supreme uncontested ruler of mankind, a true god king. If anything the human race would be better off with him in charge since our current leaders are morons.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE DIRECTORS CUT! The extra 30 minutes really add a level of richness to an already great story, including most importantly Hollis Masons storyline.
There did seem to be 2 basic camps when this came out in theaters. Seems there still are today. The "zomg! dongs!" camp and the "just ignore the dongs" camp.
I remember watching Watchmen and afterwards immediately watching some interviews. I have never had such whiplash as I had after hearing Jackie Earle Haley's (Rorschach's) natural voice. Like I would not even remotely think of them as the same person, while knowing the gruff voice was fake
It kinda makes me wonder why they didn't keep in all those scenes from the book where he talks to people on the street outside his Rorschach persona. It's not like you would have guessed it was him based on the voice, or at least I wouldn't have
You guys should really check out the comic, so many little quirks and nuggets. Even Rorschach's mask has a back story, with a real world connection (a very sad real world connection) I wished they hadn't changed the ending, but if you guys check out the hbo series, you definitely wanna read the book. It goes off the book ending, and not the movie ending, which is quite different.
as a person that loves the book, and actually quite likes this movie a lot. the HBO series is the last thing I want people to watch, it's just...so... so bad.
@@jaybird4038 aliens really don't make sense, considering how stupid powerful Dr. Manhattan is. Its the only part of the GN that is kind of silly and nonsensical. They're going to run tests on it and eventually figure out it isn't the real thing, and Rorschach's journal would help spill the beans. Any solid detective would put the pieces together. Dr. Manhattan destroying multiple cities, including the US one, is a realistic threat within the established world. Especially since he had already appeared unstable on live TV, and took off to Mars. Everyone knows dr. Manhattan really could bring down serious wrath, and many humans already saw him as a god. Its much more cohesive than "random alien squid".
See, so many people view Comedian as "The Villain" - they see the rape scene and go "FUCK THAT GUY! I'M GLAD HE'S DEAD", which is an understandable response. In the very next scene, we see Dr. Manhatten eviscerate some viatnamese villiagers, and people just go "hmm, that seems a little unfair" - but immediately forgive Dr.Manhatten, and never think about it again. Dr Manhatten killed way more people than the Comedian. And people view the Comedian as the villian. The Comedian would find that hilarious. Silk Spectre and Night Owl both get sexual thrills from brutaly beating people while in a costume. Rorsarch is a straight up homophobic psychopath. Osymandias, the 'actual villain', while unbelievably arrogant has the goal of World Peace and preventing a Nuclear apocalypse. That's what The Watchmen does well. Creates moral ambiguity in it's 'Heros & Villains'.
@@Gryffyth_Aurum And he was there, beside Dr.Manhatten, while the Dr killed how many with just a thought? But nobody ever holds Dr Manhatten to account. He made the point "Why did you watch me do it? you could have stopped it and you chose not to". Dr Manhatten chose to allow it. It was within his power to stop it all. And he didn't. That's the 'joke'. The Comedian is undoutedly a villain. The "Joke" is also that he is a government sanctioned "Good Guy". He was the only one of the MinuteMen to keep working for the government after they outlawed Masked Vigilianties. Because they needed him to do their dirty work. He is the square jawed, wise cracking, "make a funny one liner after brutaly killing someone" kind of hero that is the bread & butter of most Superhero comics. The Comedian is the mirror of society, and it hates to look at itself.
And Rorschach is essentially a fascist. There are almost no "good guys" in this movie, and pretty much everyone is damaged on some human level. This book was truly a masterpiece.
Good point. I've seen several reaction to Watchmen and I don't anyone protested what Manhatten did in Vietman. He didn't even need to kill them. He could just teleport them into a jail cell.
@@rrmenton8016 Yes. A total fascist, and certifiably insane - his true identity being "that crazy homeless guy with the 'THE END IS NIGH!" sign". He also had the most unflinching "Good vs Evil" mentality. Which is why, even if world peace could be threatened, he will do what he thinks is the morally "good" thing. Alan Moore really is a genius. Everyone should read the Watchmen comic, it is way better than the film. It does things that are only possibly in the comic book format that elevates the story telling to a whole other level.
Night Owl and Rorschach thinking they had Adrian "monologuing", only to ge gobstopped by the reveal of "I did it thirty-five" minutes ago" really turns the classic comic book trope on its ear.
Having seen this in theaters, I can confirm that some of the blue dongs and the ridiculous sex seen were in it. They also left out a great exchange in the graphic novel. Ozymandias asks Dr. Manhattan if everything he was right because everything worked out in the end and Manhattan says tells him that nothing ever ends and then leaves him to stew on that thought.
I agree that the Manhattan “nothing ever ends” should NOT have been cut. However, your point about the scenes being “ridiculous” is the point. The movie is a satire of movies without winking at the audience. So if you feel like certain parts of it are absurd or ridiculous, then the movie succeeded.
this comic changed comics so much that what may seem mundane ( super heroes with flaws?!?!) was ground breaking. its so fundamental we take it for granted now. especially now ppl dont understand the threat of nuclear war was so scary . imagine the fear around covid but the fact it could fall form the sky and kill u instantly
The key aspect of Dr. Manhattan which is obscured by the film’s reference to “parallel realities” is that Jon’s seeing the future is a prison. Once he’s seen it his free will ceases because his vision of the future is absolutely correct (though he only really sees his own future). So he can’t seemingly interfere as he just now has to watch the events unfold-otherwise he wouldn’t have seen that future. It’s kind of brain breaking when you think about it. The fly in the ointment here though is that Jon’s entire personality seems very passive, and we can’t help but wonder if his seeing the future just played into his already passive nature. Jon’s motivations become super weird too. Is he doing something because he wants to or because he has to? There’s a metatextual element here where he’s essentially aware that he’s caught in an unchangeable narrative-a fictional character who’s aware he’s playing a predetermined script.
The comic is essentially asserting that the story takes place in a deterministic universe where free will does not exist. The characters who are ignorant of their predetermined course of action believe they have free will, but from Dr. Manhattan’s point of view there is no such thing. The story only happens one way-there are no choices involved. Dr. Manhattan can just look a few pages ahead in the story-he can’t change the story.
40:36 - I'm pretty sure Comedian mentioned the names of the two reporters that broke Watergate, and he mentioned them in terms of a job, so I think that Watergate never happened.
the film is a very faithful adaption of the original 12 issue miniseries. There is one major change from the comic that is a bone of contention amongst fans but I'll let you discover that on your own. The graphic novel is well worth your time to read, as well as anything written by Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Swamp Thing, Miracle Man, ect.)
@@pete_lind better seen after reading the Alan Moore issues and keeping in mind the time period the film was produced in. It's pretty cheesy in retrospect.
The film is only faithful in the visuals of the graphic novel. The tone of the story and the overall message is changed, and I don't think the film's version is better.
Rorschach was a badass character but he was also totalitarian in his view of justice. Things were black/white, he didn't believe in grey. His world is harsh, strict, and without mercy. You follow the rules, no exceptions, or you're punished.
@@goldenager59 Kind of funny isn't it. The same motives applied to Rorschach don't work when applied to someone else. If Haven't was beating the hell out of obvious criminals he wouldn't be in the wrong, would he? So was Rorschach right in his totalitarianism? Can the same stark contrast really be applied to all "guilty" he fights? Would Rorschach still be the hero if he killed Jean Valjean?
10:11 The Disturbed one is a cover. Not the original. The one they're playing in this scene is the original from 1965 by Simon & Garfunkel. The Disturbed cover is also from 2015. 6 years after this movie was released in 2009.
A little trivia at the opening sequence, 2:23 when og Nite Owl is punching a guy outside of a theatre, there are people behind, they're the Waynes, so Bruce's parents gets saved, there is no need to Batman to exists in this world. It's amazing.
22:00 when Ozymandias stands before the window, talking about energy policy, the dirigible slowly moves toward the twin towers, then it cuts back and the towers are consumed in clouds. That moment hit really hard when I saw it on the big screen.
With the exception of Sucker Punch and Legend Of The Guardians, the Sept. 11 attacks haunt Zack Snyder's work. He even directed the Budweiser Tribute ad that aired once during Super Bowl XXXVI.
Its interesting you point that out, I hadn't considered it but thinking back to dawn of the deads opening, or the mentality of 300, you kind of make a good point!
The graphic novel this movie came from was meant to deconstruct the nature of "superheroes". If real people had super powers they'd be jsut as flawed, jsut as power-hungry, just as detached, just as mentally ill, just as arrogant or deeply disturbed or trauma-ridden. They'd just have costumes or powers. That's about it. At the time it came out, everyione hailed Alan Moore as one of the comic book industries most gifted writers. Watchmen is pretty brilliant take on the entire genre. He theorized that people or society wouldn't really change, that people with powers or abilities would, depending on a lot of outside circumstances, some would do the right thing, but most of them would be pretty messed up individuals. Good analogy of Rorshach would be theburned out cop who's seen too much and doesnt pull his punches and uses his gun freely on criminals with no reservations whatsoever. A lot of the characters - with the exception of Night Owl and Silk Spectre II - are really messed up individuals. Watchmen won a lot of awards because of how its writer thought outside the box psychologically.
the graphic novel ends differently than the movie and in my opinion the graphic novel works better for the very reason you stated, how long would it last? well in the graphic novel instead of setting up the Manhattan like radiation explosions Ozymandias uses a vastly "different" enemy that the world unites against... and the tv series answers the how long question by showing that Ozymandias routinely reminds the world of that evil by faking small scale reoccurrences that keep the people of the world fearing the return and united
You guys really caught all the nuances between the characters from the very beginning. It's quite nice to watch reactions from people who actually follow the plot.
When they made this movie, they left out one little scene that I think is vital for Adrian. After Rorschach was killed and before Jon left, Adrian and Jon spoke. That conversation (which I wont repeat... if you don't know it, go read it :) ) is so important for Adrian. It is the conversation that changes him from villain to trapped hero in my view.
One of the funniest panels in the graphic novel is when the tip about Rorschach gets called in to the police and the detective taking the call asks "Why would we care about raw shark?"
Alan Moore's masterpiece of writing. The graphic novel was voted one of the 100 Best Novels Of All Time by Time magazine. The film follows the graphic novel quite closely. Oh, the Smiley Face crater on Mars is real - it's name is Galle Crater.
33:14 You can actually buy a mask like his. It's got a special ink that appears and disappears with heat, so it changes designs when you take a breath.
Alan Moore, writer of the graphic novel, was pretty militantly _against_ any film adaptation. He believed that moving it to a different media would completely change the tone -- in print, you can linger on each horrible thing as it happens; it film, it just comes at you as a fire hose. This runs the risk of making horrible brutality seem like a badass fight scene. And he was right. Snyder basically made a panel-by-panel adaptation, with each shot framed and each character posed the same as in the GN. But now, fans of the film tend to like Rorschach, while fans of the GN know him as a monster. FWIW, although Moore was also against any TV adaptation, I think the HBO series actually stays true to the tone and theme of the book. That's mostly because (as a sequel) it can tell a different story, written and shot for TV from the ground up.
@@Vesohag Point taken on the first one, I didn't know that. Personally I think the cinematography, etc, still undercuts the literal text of the script, but maybe that's just me. On the second one, I should rephrase: many if not most fans of the GN, including myself, did enjoy Rorschach as a compelling character -- but recognized him as more of a villain and stand-in archetype for real-life bigoted crusaders. People who watch the movie are more likely to miss that, and just view him as a badass who happens to have a few forgivable character flaws. (There are obviously plenty of exceptions in both readers and viewers, but these are the trends I've seen.)
When my brother saw it in theaters when it came out, some people were getting annoyed with the softcore porn part of the movie. When they started having sex for the bazillionth time, someone yelled out "AGAIN?!" lol I'm glad I missed seeing it on the big screen. The thought of having giant blue wangs swinging around on the big screen is terrifying. :P
@40:34 I don't remember if it was touched on in the movie, but IIRC in the graphic novel The Comedian implied that he killed Woodward and Bernstein to cover up Watergate
"He didn't have to kill the dog". Personally, if I had a big Rott that had acquired a taste for raw human flesh, I would prolly feel the need to put him down.
There is a reason why dogs get put down after they attack people and that they send hunters to kill animals that have attacked people. When an animal acquires that taste and that level of fearlessness towards humans, they are more likely to attack again and this could cause a chain reaction where other animals start to follow suit. I love animals but not to death. I know that they are dangerous and humans should not fuck with wildlife without proper training.
i would say that the characters having superpowers comes from the fact that humans in superhero genre always seem capable of doing superhuman feats through sheer will and training.some characters like batman and daredevil do a lot of crazy shit that's impossible for normal/real humans and its mostly attributed to the fact that the superhero genre is more fantastical than realistic. watchmen is about superheros existing in the real world. how would they effect it and how would they effect the normal people around them. not necessarily about them being realistic or practical. i mean we have a guy who's made out of pure energy and ozymandias is able to catch a bullet.
@@NoHandleGrr I guess I disagree; it kind of depends on your definition of super-powers. I think Ozymandias is a kind of superhuman. He's touted as "the smartest man in the world", and is able to do incredible feats through years of training and transcendental mediation. And taking hallucinogens I guess. He's not godlike in the way that Dr. Manhattan is, but he's a person who has been able to reach the pinnacle of human potential. Catching a bullet is a little beyond just somebody doing something exaggerated because they're a hero. Especially in this universe which is more grounded in some version of reality, he's definitely touted as something extraordinary.
@@NoHandleGrr The way Batman is generally depicted, I would say no, he doesn't have super-powers. He's a clever guy with lots of gadgets, and he's a good fighter, and a master tactician. But he can be overpowered pretty easily by many of the crazier denizens of Gotham City who have actual physical enhancements. He can beat up thugs easily enough, but he usually has to outsmart his more imposing foes. Night Owl II is clearly the Batman analogue. Ozymandias is something else, almost like a Greek demigod.
@@greyambrosia But its not becasue he has "powers". he love for the pharos had him studying all types of ancient ideas and teachings. One of those things was how to unlock the bodies full mental and physical abilities, using pure will. Since he is the world's smartest man, he was able to figure out how to do this. Thats why he was able to catch the bullet. He is literally in top physical and mental form.
This movie always get everybody to think about so many things overlooked of daily life... It's an amazing way to make you want to read the graphic novel.
Army of the Dead was one of the worst movies I have ever seen. I was really looking forward to it since I was a fan of Snyder's earlier stuff like the dawn of the dead remake and 300. I even liked Man of Steel I know a lot of people didnt like that movie so much. But Army of the dead was sooo horribly written and directed that there was nothing that redeemed it. From the first scene when the military convoy gets into that accident caused by road head I knew it was going to suck.
Well, considering he copied this movie and 300 almost to a framefrom their source material, and James Gunn wrote Dawn of the Dead, you should maybe reconsder that opinion.
1:29 I'm old enough to remember catching snippets of the mcloughlin group on TV when I was a kid. Him, Eleanor and Pat Buchanan are perfectly imitated hear. I love that this movie put in so many 80s deep cut references, for us "olds". Much as i dislike some Zack Snyder's other movie's, this director's cut, as well as the one for Dawn of the Dead are awesome.
12:21- I love this conversation. To me this is the convo between to two of the smartest. Ozy, the literal smartest and Comedian, the one who sees what's really going on.
I’m glad they used the original versions of songs in this movie. Especially the original Leonard Cohen version of Hallelujah. Cohen is still criminally underrated in the US, which is a damn shame. Best concert I ever saw.
This was the entire run of the graphic novel, although this actually has a dramatically different ending than the graphic novel/original. Interestingly, the show is (excellent) an *entirely* new story set in the aftermath of the graphic novel's ending. You two would probably really enjoy it. It's very well done and an incredible continuation of a story thought to be concluded ;)
@@michaelconnor1542 it's interesting that you say that about an Alan Moore story, and i now he didn't write the series,but if you read his comics you know his point of view about it
The original graphic novel version of Watchmen was supposed to be a reboot of the Charlton Comics characters which DC had recently bought out, but given the darker tone and content in Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' pitch, the company decided they wanted to keep those characters free of Watchmen's baggage and so the creators reworked them to be OCs with different names and slightly different "powers"/theming - The Question became Rorschach, Blue Beetle II became Nite Owl II, Nightshade became Silk Spectre, Peter Cannon the Thunderbolt became Ozymandias, Captain Atom became Dr Manhattan and Peacemaker (yes, as in John Cena's Peacemaker) became the Comedian. Ironically, while the Charlton heroes have had arcs in the comics since and the Peacemaker show is obviously a big crossover hit, they've largely been supplanted by their Watchman counterparts.
I actually love this movie. I recently read the graphic novel and surprisingly it’s very accurate. The big difference is instead of it being a bunch of bombs made with Dr Manhatten’s energy they made like a faked an alien attack.
@@AbdulrashidSadulaevFan777 well ok fair. The one that stands out to me. It’s been a while since I read it. Much of the dialogue and scenes were the same. I wish they would have fleshed out that psychologist guy like they did in the graphic novel. I know Rorschach burned that one guy alive in his house and didn’t hack him up.
The Disturbed version of Sound of Silence came out in 2015. Watchmen came out in 2009. Not to mention, all the music they're using is of the specific time/era.
When you think about other comics, this is supposed to be a critique with actual psychology behind it. The Batman who chose to keep his weak alternate identity, the punisheresque hero who knows humanity too much to where he knows brutality required to change anything. The Superman who lnows you either do everything or nothing.
I think it's an exploration of various moral philosophies, Comedian = Moral Nihilism, Rorschach = Moral Absolutism, Ozy = Consequentialism, Dr. Manhattan = Existentialism And interesting they all fail to solve the problems ahead of them because of a flaw in their moral system. The Comedian finds he can't truly live without a conscience. Rorschach can't comprise on his morals even to stop a nuclear holocaust. Ozy is the smartest man alive but can't foresee all of the consequences and misses something... Rorschach's journal.
@@styot Actually, in a weird way, Rorschach is the most existential of them all. "Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach."
I'll join what I'm assuming are many, many other comments in saying that now that you've seen the movie and marveled at many of the story ideas, you really owe it to yourself to read the original Graphic Novel by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. It is a seminal work in modern comics and even better than the film.
I was 16 and 17 when this series was printed and it was the second "grown up" comic series I had read; the first being The Dark Knight Returns. Miller and Moore were gods in this time period by the way. I didn't re-read the series as a whole until my 20s and realized wow, I missed a lot reading an issue a month (sometimes longer depending on publishing, or Moore, issues). Reading the series again now or just watching the movie which was a great adaptation (with an altered means to an end ending .. think Stephan King weirdness and you have Moore's original means, but same general outcome for Veidt's plan) just leaves me numb and processing. And that, is a good thing. In the mid-late 80's, this was stand alone 12 issue series, but I haven't really kept up with what they might have retro'd into it since because I thought this was enough.
The 'Watchmen' movie was set in 1985, that was why the original 60's version by Simon & Garfunkel of 'The sound of silence' was used... instead of Disturbed's 2015 cover.
The HBO tv show explains how peace is maintained. Important to know that the TV show follows canon from the comic book and not the movie, so there's slight differences.
The GN is definitely worth a read, it goes into a lot of the history in all different mediums, such as excerpts from Nite Owl 1's book, and Classified Government Documents. I first read this book as an 11 year old, and the moment where Hollis Mason fights the Top-Knots, with flashbacks to his youth, was the last thing I read before I had to go to sleep, and because of it... I couldn't. Crazily, that is one of the scenes missing from the Theatrical Cut!
I was never too happy with the movie's change of Veidt's plan to blame Manhattan, for the reasons you cited and also the fact that he is too tied to the US military up to that point in time, it leaves too much room for the world to blame the US for the attack/enabling Manhattan all those years. The graphic novel takes a very different direction with the plan which makes more sense, but I understand that it would have been harder to fit into the film The TV show, which is great, uses the original plan though, so read up on the original before watching!
That's a weird take. Having read the GN a number of times, and watched the movie several times, the movie ending framing Manhattan makes much more sense than a giant fake squid alien. Manhattan "attacks" multiple major cities, including US cities. Every country notices this. Manhattan already had the power to do it, and all the major super powers know it. They also know he's been acting very unstable, given his TV appearances. As for the hbo show, I don't even know where to begin with that trainwreck bastardization. Its clear Lindeloff never should have had anything to do with it, and had no idea what Watchmen was about. How anyone enjoys it is beyond me. Several characters act nothing like themselves, and are written as such to make a crappy plot take place that takes a big steamy dump on the original story.
@@faded1to3black I agree. Framing Manhattan instead of going the way of having them fear an alien attack using a giant centipede like creature and a massive mind control tactic that put people in fear would have been a bit too much if you get what I mean.
The frontal nudity was in the theatrical release, and the love scene between Dan and Laurie was meant to be funny. 🙂 The movie changes the ending that appears in the limited series (eventually reprinted as a graphic novel) and, honestly, improves on it. However, the TV show continues from the graphic novel ending, and not the film's ending, and takes place a generation later. It's good, too, though. This story was a watershed moment, in U.S. comic-book history. DC decided to release it without the seal of the Comics Code Authority (CCA), even though that would keep it out of the newsracks in grocery stores and pharmacies. They were able to do so, because the direct-sales avenues -- both mail-order and comic shops -- were so widespread, the series could bypass those traditional distribution routes, but still reach a vast market. Watchmen, basically, broke the CCA, and took the shackles off the writers and artists who worked on comics and graphic novels, in the U.S.
9:35 That's actually where the meme came from. 10:00 Because it didn't exist yet, ye gods.
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The graphic novel is a must read if you enjoy the movie. The film, specially this cut, covers pretty much the entire run of the original comic but it has some dramatic changes in the plot. There has been some expanded universe stories which different degrees of quality, but the novel can (and I think should) be read as it's own thing.
all the music relates to the time period events are happening. The Sound of Silence is from the 60s. if you read the graphic novel you will see what an amazing job of casting characters & following the story Snyder did. The only major change is what Viedt did to bring peace. Perhaps Zack thought it was too much. This is my favorite Hero movie. The universe it creates is awesome.
When you were talking about 'how long could peace last?' You have to remember that there would be entire generations of people that grew up with peace, the elder generations would be dead and the younger would know nothing but that. Also it would be generations of prosperity with unlimited energy, I would assume that Veight hoped this would be sufficient building blocks for a long lasting even permanent peace rather than them resuming their squabbles a few decades later.
Watchmen (HBO) is a great mini series. It's a continuation of the graphic novel (different ending from the theatrical release) set in 2019. It's definitely worth a watch!
Great reaction! BTW, Disturbed's cover of Sound of Silence didn't even exist yet at the time of Watchmen. That cover wouldn't exist until 2015. The world was extremely familiar with Simon and Garfunkel's original for over 4 decades when this movie came out.
The Watchmen Series is great but you have to read the graphic novel first since it follows that timeline. Also Alan Moore is psycho genius to come up with changed worlds like this. (Read his Miracleman comic)
You do *not* need to read the graphic novel first. No showrunners in their right mind would make reading a prerequisite, because they're more than happy to give you what you need to enjoy their story.
If I could spend a day having a conversation with anyone who ever lived, my first choice would be Diogenes of Sinop. My second choice would be Alan Moore.
This film came out a long time before Disturbed did their version of sound of Silence... they're also using music from the time period of when the film is set. And yes... the dongs and sex scene were in the theatrical version... I can tell you one thing... seeing it on a cinema screen... that's not an image you can easily wipe from your mind...
I have a real love-hate-relationship with this movie. One the one hand there are scenes I really love - on the other it get's quite a few points fundamentally wrong (in my opinion at least): There is this whole attitude of "Wow, it's a superheromovie for adults, so there must be lots of violence and sex!" The film is way more explicite than the book and I just don't see the point. Watchmen should be hard to watch, because it's a morally grey world with deep messages about what it means to be human, not because there are people exploding in bloody gore all over the screen. It's just too violent for the sake of it, so I can't blame you guys for thinking the watchmen have real superpowers. In the comic it's very clear that (apart from Dr. M of course) they are just broken individuals who play dress up to feel better. The one exeption being Ozymandias, who really saves the world in the end, but becomes a mass murderer in the process. And this is the one point I can't get over: Ozymandias is totaly misscast. The actor really comes across as a plotting supervillain from the start (as you noticed), when he was everything but in the book: In a way he was meant to be the peak of human physical, intellectual and spiritual abilities (maybe like a Lex Luthor-type against Dr Manhattans Superman) But he was also charming, thoughtful and - dare I say - funny at times, so it was a real surprise to see him as the endboss "villain". I would really like to see your opinion on the Watchmen-TV Show, although they somehow managed to do poor old Ozymandias an even bigger disservice. Greetings from Germany!
Absolutely agree about the Ozymandias casting. After Knives Out and Sunshine, I think Chris what's his name (Captain America) wouldve pulled it off pretty well.
In the comic there is practically no physical violence shown till the end, when suddenly in an huge wide shot new york is full of bloody corpses. The movie did the opposit, extrem violence over the entire plot, but a steril clean blue light ball and a whole in the ground.
I don't know, I thought Jeremy Irons did a good job as an old, disillusioned yet still ferociously smart Adrian Veidt. Also, I've always felt the tonal oddity of this film (compared to the source material) is due to the graphic novel being written by a card carrying anarchist who took potshots at every political stripe whereas the film was done by an Ayn Rand loving Objectivist who sanded off all the rough edges that slighted folks like Reagan or Thatcher. The substitution of one RR name reference for another at the end was a bit of a dead giveaway. Also, also - did they spend like a buck ninety-five on the old age makeup for the film? It's literally worse than '80s old age makeup. The absolute worst I've ever seen in a big budget modern film. All that being said, it's a beautiful film (as Snyder's films often are) even if it relies a little heavily on the slo-mo.
@@Coldwater-sw6me Bei 300 konnte man das immerhin noch als Kommentar über Kriegspropaganda lesen - aber wenn er anfängt Rorschach und Nightowl2 zu coolen Actionhelden zu machen hört der Spaß auf. Erinnert mich an die Szene, in der Ozy die Watchmen als Sammel-Actionfiguren vermarkten will...
This version of the Sound of Silence is the original version by Simon and Garfunkel and the dongs were in the theatrical version and they were much bigger on a 70ft screen.
Also the sex scene was in the theatrical cut, just slightly shorter… but definitely mostly in 😂 and also much more detail in a 70ft screen lol
@@NestorCaster - mostly in then out then in then out
That and the disturbed version didn't come out much later.
Yeah…6 foot meat stick was hard to miss…
I remember there was so much nervous laughter in the theater every time Dr. Manhattan showed up. I get what Snyder was going for by having him be naked, but he probably should've just had him wear the speedo for the whole movie. Maybe had a throwaway line where John said he was just wearing it for the sake of keeping up the appearance of decency or something.
The casting for Rorschach was perfect, Jackie Earle Haley looks exactly in the film like the character did in the book, though to be fair practically all of the characters do, the casting and costuming in this film was simply fantastic.
And yeah, Kovacs was short, and shorter than his alter ego; when he was captured the police were surprised to find out he was wearing shoe lifts (and it's quite surprising that more masked vigilantes / superheroes aren't known to wear them... if you want to look imposing and superhuman wearing something that makes you look taller seems like the thing to do).
I love Jackie Earle Haley as The Terror in Amazon's The Tick.
a good example is the movie "Phantasm" where the main antagonist was called the tall man and he was super imposing, especially since they made him wear shoe lifts and suits too small for him even though his actor Angus Scrimm was already quite tall
Alternatively... About imposing....the Dr Manhattan style....no pants...
My first degree was in philosophy, and I loved how Rorschach was a perfect embodiment of Deontology (the Categorical Imperative). "Do your duty, even if the heavens should fall."
But they made him sound all cool and badass rather than monotone and creepy like he's supposed to sound
Fun fact: all of the American flags in this movie have 51 stars on them, alluding to the fact that in this timeline, Vietnam became the 51st state after Dr. Manhattan won the war for America.
And both are still inaccurate, because of the few colonies ("territories") that Usa have
yeah Puerto Rico is next in line to be a US state. Vietnam would have just been another Philippines, basically a US military colony to project American power in south east Asia.
Yeah, sorry, maybe I triggered someone, but I think this kind of remarks fit best in this movie comment section
@@JacopoBasanisi No one was triggered by your comment
@@joshuaortiz2031 And there are the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Best line in the movie is "You think I'm locked in here with you. You're wrong. You're locked in with me." I remember getting chills way back when I read that in the graphic novel and it is delivered almost exactly as I heard it in my inner voice. And yes, Rorschach's character was diminutive in the book.
I love that George said "oh he's gonna have a rough time in here" right before finding out no, THEY are going to have a rough time with him in there. Perfect setup for that line.
The long Dr. Manhattan sequence/origin story is probably my favorite single sequence in the movie. The music perfectly aligns with the narrative build up and how he occasionally jumbles the linearity is a nice look into how he's come to see time in general now.
The music is the title theme from "Koyaanisqatsi," another wonderful movie.
localroger It’s actually a sort of composite of “Pruitt Igoe” and “Prophecies” from the same score (though, in all fairness, “Prophecies” is sort of a coda and shares a lot of similarities with the title track)
I love that scene too but whenver I think of the movie what comes first to mind is the threesome with himself :D
Best part of the movie by far. And probably the best issue in the comic.
Disturbed's version of "The Sound Of Silence" wasn't released until 6 years later from this film's release. That's why. I still prefer their choice because it not only fits the timeframe, it fits the mood. This was the original goth music.
I don't think any film has managed to bring together so many conflicting ideologies. Each character is essentially an archetypal embodiment of a particular moral viewpoint. Rorschach is the deontological absolutist, who adheres to an iron code of black v white. Ozymandias is the rational consequentialist, for whom the ends justify the means. The Comedian is the nihilist, who says nothing matters so might as well revel in the absurdity, and Dr Manhattan the strict determinist who holds that since the position and momentum of every particle in the universe at any given moment is a predetermined event due to the laws of physics, free will is an illusion and debates on morality are pointless since the future is fixed and we have no choice. Yet it somehow does all this without diluting the archetype by making them real people with real flaws, who don't always adhere to their own standard.
They also each embody different mental disorders and personality types: The Comedian has an anti-social personality, Nite Owl an avoidant personality that he can only shed when he wears his costume. Dr. Manhattan embodies schizoid personality disorder. Ozymandias is a textbook narcissist. Rorschach has autistic traits and a borderline personality and he obviously suffers from PTSD.
Yes
Have you read the comic? I like your analysis.
That's an interesting insight. Knowing Alan Moore, you are probably as close to his creative motivation as any of us mere mortals can get.
@@brycephiilips2716 I understand the book and film greatly too, not just @Michael Buick.
Btw George....the extra long censorship of the..."reveal"...of Dr. Manhattan is A+ comedy lmao
The characters in this story are ‘original’ to it because when Moore was first writing the story, DC Comics wouldn’t let him us the recently acquired characters from the defunct Charlton Comics that he wanted to use. The characters are still all dark reflections of characters that are these days well established DC characters. Dr Manhattan is based on a character named Captain Atom, Silk Spectre is based on the Phantom Lady, Rorschach is based on the Question, Ozymandias is based on Peter Cannon ‘Thunderbolt’ (actually no longer a DC character), both Night-Owls are based on a series of characters named the Blue Beetle, and probably best known these days the Comedian is based on Peacemaker. The same character that John Cena has been playing in the HBO MAX series to great acclaim.
-notes from a giant comic nerd
I had no idea peacemaker was based on the comedian makes sense. But damn that's awesome.
@@insertgenericusernamehere2402Peacemaker came first, Comedian was based on Peacemaker.
Yep, glad someone brought that up. DC's Phantom Lady has always been one of my favorite characters. I LOVE the really minor C and D list characters who just show up to fill out pages.
Yes - people usually connect Nite Owl to Batman due to his similar look and style of hero-ing, but he really is Blue Beetle. His owl ship is a literal exact copy of Blue Beetle's Bug ship, only with a beak instead of insect legs.
Honestly looking back on it now, it makes sense that Nite Owl is based off of Dan Garrett and Ted Kord Blue Beetle. Nite Owl's ship looks similar to Ted Kord's as well. I also could now tell that Rorshach and Question are quite similar but the Comedian being Peacemaker didn't dawn on me until now.
WRT the peace not lasting, there’s a scene in the comic where Jon goes back to talk to Adrian and Adrian says “I did the right thing, didn’t I? In the end?” And Jon replies “‘In the end’? Nothing ever ends.” And that’s the whole idea - Adrian got humanity to that one point, but points in time don’t last. So what happens next?
shame Snyder didn't understand the work
@@davidking498 Yeah., I agree. It's very faithful to the look of the comic, but is a wholly superficial reading of the book which, given that it's one of the best comics of all time, is a crime.
I actually tend to like Snyder and I always try to judge adaptations as their own thing, but I can't watch Watchmen. It's too slavish in some ways while missing the core of the story.
It also misjudges some things very badly. A big part of the comic is that Dr. Manhattan is the only thing that changed about that world compared to ours. Everything that makes it different to ours is because of Dr. Manhattan. Simone & Goerge were left wondering here how everybody got their abilities, when the point is that they don't have any. They shouldn't be exhibiting preternatural abilities (except, perhaps, for the bullet catch). The fight in the alley should be brutal and rough with their years of training being their only advantage, not slow-motion ballet where they exhibit their superior strength.
And no rape scene should be edited to look cool in slow-motion.
There's a lot more I could say, but Snyder's style was completely the wrong fit for the story and he's too superficial a filmmaker to adapt something like that.
Nailed it. That line is the thematic ending of the story, the clock strikes 12 and continues around. It's absence in the movie (along with the Black Freighter 'I have a dream...') completely changes the theme.
I think they didn't add that scene from comic because it would have spoiled the reveal of Rorschach's journal in the newspaper office.
@@davidking498 Actually he did (Laurie says the line about "Nothing ever ends). He just added the concepts of love, friendship and understanding being present in a world in chaos.
I loved the inclusion of George Carlin in your reaction. For a great movie with George, please watch the 1999 film Dogma. Also starring, Alan Rickman, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Chris Rock and Salma Hayek.
Great movie
Definitely +1 for Dogma
I hear that's actually difficult to find digitally/streaming.¹ That aside, there appears to be a full version available on UA-cam for free right now. Someone uploaded it two years ago, and there it remains. I tried watching it, and it is available to view. . .at least in the US.
··•✺•··
¹ ─ _"Disney owned Miramax in 1999,"_ Smith answered in a tweet. _"Dogma was catching heat from the Catholic League so Disney let the Weinsteins buy the movie themselves (they still personally own the film). Lionsgate released theatrically & Sony did home video. But Digital didn't EXIST yet when the deal was struck."_
@@CaesiusX Yeah, it is actually a really good upload, surprisingly. I own the dvd, but that is definitely pretty hard to find nowadays.
Please react to Dogma. Very underrated film
Boy does George have a fixation on body parts and giggling. Almost the response of an adolescent 🤣 So glad that got better with giggling and laughing at everything in their later videos. It's what kept me on their patreon site. 😎
The intro of this film is among some of the best I've seen.
Snyder does amazing openings
Agreed!
@@Darkpara1Just wish his Batman and Superman were better instead of "try-hard edgelord"
There's an even longer version that includes segments of an animated short film. The actor playing young Rorshach is Zack Snyder's son, who also played a young Leonidas in 300
The Ultimate Cut is available on blu ray. Not only does it include the Tales Of The Black Freighter animation; which has been edited into the film as it is in the novel, there’s further deleted scene that are missing from the directors cut
@@davidanderson1639 that's the only version I can watch.
@@MattKayser it’s definitely one for the fans amongst us. Don’t get me wrong, the theatrical cut was great & Synder’s attention to detail in accurately recreating frames from the novel is incredible. But the Ultimate Cut just turns everything up to 11 & its by far, one of the greatest adaptation of a graphic novel.
@@davidanderson1639 agreed, though I wasn't a big fan of the theatrical version. I should clarify that the Ultimate Cut is the only version I can watch because, after seeing that one, I see no point in going back to the others. It's not a perfect adaptation of the book, and I have my issues with it, but it's the closest we'll ever get. The comic was written as a comic and it'll never get translated exactly to film, with all of the nuances intact, that's impossible... but again, the UC is the closest we'll ever get. I really like it for what it is.
If he treats his family life like he gives them movie roles, some things happened around him begin to really make sense. I’m a father of three and I never ever would write and shoot scenes like this with one of my kids…
"Look upon my blue dong and despair".
Even if Manhattan's behavior during sex is understandable rationally for what he is, I'd say that from his partner's point of view there's a human need for undivided attention and sharing that intimacy. It just highlights how far removed he is from our perspective.
The graphic novel came out in 1987 and along with Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, it basically coined the whole term "graphic novel". It's a stand-alone story from Alan Moore's point of view (novel, not a franchise), even though decades later other writers made sequels and the tv show. The movie is a surprisingly faithful adaptation although it has to omit a lot of stuff (and change some).
@@technopirate304 I’m not a fan either tbh. Overall the film isn’t my thing. Snyder’s version hits most important story points but misses most of what I love about the original.
Right, Dr. Manhattan is supposed to be symbolic of nuclear weaponry as a whole (hence his name): full of limitless destructive power, but cold and inhumane, unfeeling. Having Laurie try in vain to get him to feel something was Alan Moore's way of scoffing at people who tried to make sense of, or find something good in, nuclear weapons. This movie is absolutely dripping with symbolism.
Alan Moore insists that he writes "Comic Books" and not graphic novels.
@@EmperorSmith Since this came out as a 12 issue mini series of comics I agree.
Frank Miller's Ronin broke the mold of the old style comics in 83/84.
It's popularity ushered in comics like The Dark Knight Returns and Who Watches The Watchmen.
I remember them coming out. They were different everything DC and Marvel put out at the time. Independent publishers had already gone to dark and gritty titles just to get followers who were tired of the same old stuff they read every month.
I find it necessary that we take a moment to appreciate an additional layer here.
The line that George so fittingly parodied -- "Look upon my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!" -- comes from a poem by Percy Shelley titled... drumroll, please... "Ozymandias."
Not sure if he did that on purpose or not, but good show either way 👏👏
One of the best examples of "Super Heroes as humans" stories. Imperfect, morally grey or even dark, different motives. It's a very dark story obviously. Memorable because when this hit, most other comics were Superman / Spiderman pure good guy icons vs the evil bad guys.
If we talking about the comic it's more than that, it's trying to say how ridiculous and dangerous the idea of superheroes it is... the movie is kind of a failure because to some degree it's glorifying superheroes while critisizing them at the same time.
I supposed Alan Moore was fed up... his story is not supposed to have those slow motion fightings and Hollywood tricks to please audiences with special effects and frenzy visuals. In order to keep the comic essence the movie should've been much more rough and unpolite with those contradictory aspects. But it's impossible, just imagine a superhero movie without spectacular fights and "cool" suits and gadgets
I feel this world would not handle superheroes well. Don't get me wrong, they'd be championed as strong people or those who can command tremendous forces, but the flip side is the establishment already here. The people who cling to power here would do everything to being down those who would disrupt their rule. Example of the billionaires, who could very well pay news outlets to spin stories in a bad light.
Gods would be reprimanded for abandoning those in need, while the people responsible are not held accountable. The mighty torn down for even the slightest mistake. All in all, the last thing this world needs is a superhero.
@@JulioLeonFandinho I mean if the superheroes we see the most of, we have a total asshole (comedian), an insane person (Rorschach), a well intentioned mass murderer (ozymandias), someone who struggles to even relate to humanity (Manhattan), and two normal people who just want to do good (Silk Spectre and Night Owl). I don't think it was trying to glorify them just that Rorschach is so cool people forget just how insane he really is. Also the minutemen (aside from comedian) seemed like regular do-gooders from what little we saw of most of them
@@JulioLeonFandinho the whole point of the Watchmen (the clue is in the name - who watches the watchmen) is that there are no heroes or villains in absolute terms, that's why everyone in the story is fatally flawed. The nearest thing to an actual conventional 'superhero' is Manhattan, who has almost godlike powers - and being godlike has stopped him being able to relate to being human.
The best thing about this story is that there is no clear villain. Everybody believes they are right, and everybody is, at least partially.
That's the villain thing, look at Thanos, the riddler the think they're right they got their own reasoning that's makes a good villain
@Ben Franklin he stopped the nuclear war tho. He's a Goddamn hero lol
@Ben Franklin Isn't he? Seems like a classic twist on the "trolley problem" to me. I still go back on whether he was right or wrong. If the death of everyone is inevitable, as the comic implies, do you let everyone die, or sacrifice millions to save billions? That doesn't feel like a black or white question to me. Either choice is gonna hurt. But I think Id save the billions.
Also, everyone is wrong, _at least partially._
I think Ozymandias was a bit miscast, as the actor had an aura of corporate sleazyness where the comic book one had more gentle appearance and was basically mentally, physically and by looks "a perfect man".
And it's ok to call Watchmen a "comic book." It was a comic book before it was collected into a Graphic Novel. It was published in 12 individual issues as a limited series in 1986 and 1987.
Yes, Rorschach in the food line at the prison has one the most bad ass lines ever - " I am not locking here with you, you're locked in here with ME!" What statement.
8:28 "99 Luftballons" is really a very appropriate song for this movie if you read the English translation.
Toy helium balloons are released by the singer/narrator, are misidentified by the military on radar and trigger a nuclear war.
And being from the early 80s it fits quite well in the ambience of the movie.
I found out about this movie before its release, but knew nothing about it, so I bought the graphic novel. SERIOUSLY one of the best I've ever read. Time Magazine named it as one of the 100 best novels of the 20th century, and rightfully so.
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I was not prepared for how dark it was, nor how much of a genius Alan Moore truly is. The director's cut leaves in some great moments that the theatrical version doesn't, so I'm glad you guys watched that one. This is fairly faithful to the source material, except for the act that destroys New York. Which didn't really shift the tone of the ending, just the means.
And yes, the sex scene and the blue dongs were all over the theatrical run.
This movie was ahead of its time for sure. Turned the superhero genre on its head and gave us a more mature, adult film with a dark and epic story built around the archetype of the complex characters and their ambiguous moral views.
I love this film, unfortunately many people bashed it as not being a superhero movie. Superheroes don't act that way. I rolled my eyes every time I heard that complaint.
With the exception of Dr Manhattan, none of the characters in the graphic novel had superpowers. They were just really good fighters, and some of them had really good weapons and gadgets. The fact that their movie versions can punch though cement and throw bad guys across a room like ragdolls is mostly down to the fact that Zack Snyder is about as subtle as a bag of rocks. Don't get me wrong - he did a brilliant job translating Moore's story to the big screen, and I doubt any other director could have done it better. But there are several moments in this film where I found myself thinking "You just couldn't help yourself, could you Zack?"
The power levels is one of my two issues with the film, as well as the costumes. Zack made the "normie" heroes almost too cool for school, whereas Gibbons designed them in a decidedly down-to-earth fashion, with most of them looking like talented cosplayers rather than big-budget heroes.
But this remains one of my favorite adaptations ever.
The extra power bestowed on the characters in this particular adaptation is one exception I’m mostly ok with(I’ll stress “mostly”). I think Zack did a decent job showing the characters struggle and fail with the morality/responsibility in using those powers better than most any other comic/graphic novel adaptation.
I still would have rather seen something closer to the source material but I think for what the film was attempting to do it did better than I had expected it would.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 This is true (he literally catches a bullet in his hand, after all) but even then his abilities are the result of years of intense training and self-discipline, rather than actual superhuman powers. He's about as close to being a superhero as a human can get without actually being one.
Came here to say EXACTLY this!
@@beageler I enjoyed that scene. I understand why it works for some and not others. But I do stand by it.
The Dr Manhattan origin sequence gives me chills every single time.
one of the only good parts
The problem with Allan Moore's Comics is that when they are adapted to film, such as the Watchmen and V for Vendetta, large amounts of the subtext is lost. He writes great characters and because of this the films generally become character driven stories. However, all his stories are multi layered satyrs, this movie is a great example, while the message of using violence to stop violence is seen, the message of the violence of the American dream is barely noted.
The biggest example of movies butchering Moore's vision is 'The League of Extraordinary Gentleman'. The graphic novel was a wonderful subversion of 'The Superhero Group' while also being a wonderful homage to Victorian and Edwardian culture.
The movie wasn't even a good action flick.
They didn’t use the Disturbed version of “The Sound of Silence” because the movie preceded it by 10 years or so. Also, the Watchmen exist in the DC universe with the likes of Superman and Batman. Nice reaction!
Lmao, that’s not exactly right. They were published by the same company. With Doomsday Clock, I guess you could say that they exist in the same _multiverse._ But saying that they exist in the same universe would be greatly misleading. This is not AT ALL the way history plays out in the standard DC universe. So much so that most characters in Watchmen are pretty much knock-offs of characters that actually do exist in the mainstream DC universe.
Well….a couple years ago, the Watchmen were brought into the main DC continuity. Not sure if it’s still a thing, I lost interest kinda quick.
@@leonidaslemonis127 I think he was generalizing for CineBinge's benefit, since they're pretty new to all of this. And as you said, he's not technically wrong. Watchmen is published by DC comics & their characters have appeared exclusively in DC comics, particularly in recent years alongside Superman and the rest of the Justice League. And while their inclusion in the main DC continuity via Doomsday Clock is redundant to say the least (given the actual Charlton characters Watchmen is based on exist as well), that is a reality that lies before us lol.
@@jimhashbrowns3874 I believe that was done for money, so DC could keep control of it and not have to pay the creator. I remember hearing something like, though don’t remember the details. It was in the same discussion as Sony making a Fantastic 4 movie, and different studios controlling different parts of the rights to Star Trek, and the whole Sony/Disney Spider-Man nonsense.
@@MP197742 Kind of. ONe needs to remember that watchmen first came out right as the graphic novel trend was hitting its stride. So in the inital idea for watchmen, Moore was going to use actual popular DC characters, but was asked to use his own instead. The agreement was that after so many years after DC was done printing watchmen, Moore and artist Dave Gibson would get all the rights to the property. But then they reprinted The Dark Knight Returns as. a graphic novel, and it sold gangbusters. They then tried it again with Watchmen, to even more success. Thusly, every time they would start reprinting the material for anniversary editions, or collectors editions, and so on, the timeline for Moore and Gibson own the property kept getting pushed back further and further. Not long after the movie came out, DC offered to give them the rights to Watchmen, with the stipulation that would allow DC to continue to make watchmen stories, to which he refused. It should also be noted that Alan Moore has refused any money owed to him from all of his work that has been adapted into movies.
When it comes to superhero deconstructions Watchmen is still the most comprehensive, tackling just about everything about the genre, to the point where the movie can only really cover the broad strokes.
"What if superheroes had real personalities and existed in the real world?"
What you find is that costumed fighters aren't very well equipped to tackle the messy political problems of the era, and that multi-faceted "real" people don't make very good avatars of virtue that a hero should be. Rorschach and Ozymandias are the two that come closest to being as dedicated to their principles as a classic comic book hero, but in both cases that's also their greatest flaw.
Basically, Alan Moore showcases why comics *shouldn't* be too realistic. It can be an interesting side-track, but it also misses the point.
If a Manhattan existed the country that had him would be pretty much unstoppable.
@@fjparasite1172 As if Dr Manhattan would care for things like nationalism no country wold have him. If someone that powerful ever existed he would either grow inpatient with humanity and leave earth like in the movie, graphic novel or he would establish himself as the supreme uncontested ruler of mankind, a true god king. If anything the human race would be better off with him in charge since our current leaders are morons.
@@joshuaortiz2031 he is literally a superpowered pushover that does what he is told either by politicians or Comedian. He's a follower not a leader.
@@fjparasite1172 He's only that way at first he wises up and decides to do his own thing at the end of the film.
Or One Punch Man 😅
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE DIRECTORS CUT! The extra 30 minutes really add a level of richness to an already great story, including most importantly Hollis Masons storyline.
I would really like to see George’s reaction to the movie “Big Trouble in Little China”
And then "Escape from new york" - just to showcase kurt russells range
That's a good one. Or Tombstone, he was great in that too
There did seem to be 2 basic camps when this came out in theaters. Seems there still are today. The "zomg! dongs!" camp and the "just ignore the dongs" camp.
It's worth reading about Alan Moore's history with the adaptations of his work, just for context.
I remember watching Watchmen and afterwards immediately watching some interviews. I have never had such whiplash as I had after hearing Jackie Earle Haley's (Rorschach's) natural voice. Like I would not even remotely think of them as the same person, while knowing the gruff voice was fake
It kinda makes me wonder why they didn't keep in all those scenes from the book where he talks to people on the street outside his Rorschach persona. It's not like you would have guessed it was him based on the voice, or at least I wouldn't have
You guys should really check out the comic, so many little quirks and nuggets. Even Rorschach's mask has a back story, with a real world connection (a very sad real world connection) I wished they hadn't changed the ending, but if you guys check out the hbo series, you definitely wanna read the book. It goes off the book ending, and not the movie ending, which is quite different.
as a person that loves the book, and actually quite likes this movie a lot. the HBO series is the last thing I want people to watch, it's just...so... so bad.
@@Codemaster1138 Can’t deny the soundtrack was awesome though. I still listen to it from time to time while I’m doing chores.
Agreed... The book ending is way better, he doesn't set it up to blame Manhattan. Aliens are a way better set up.
@@jaybird4038 aliens really don't make sense, considering how stupid powerful Dr. Manhattan is. Its the only part of the GN that is kind of silly and nonsensical. They're going to run tests on it and eventually figure out it isn't the real thing, and Rorschach's journal would help spill the beans. Any solid detective would put the pieces together. Dr. Manhattan destroying multiple cities, including the US one, is a realistic threat within the established world. Especially since he had already appeared unstable on live TV, and took off to Mars. Everyone knows dr. Manhattan really could bring down serious wrath, and many humans already saw him as a god. Its much more cohesive than "random alien squid".
@@Codemaster1138 agreed. The HBO series was a dumpster fire.
In this universe Rorschach saved Bruce Wane's parents preventing the creation of Batman.
And Batman was a character in the 40s?
See, so many people view Comedian as "The Villain" - they see the rape scene and go "FUCK THAT GUY! I'M GLAD HE'S DEAD", which is an understandable response. In the very next scene, we see Dr. Manhatten eviscerate some viatnamese villiagers, and people just go "hmm, that seems a little unfair" - but immediately forgive Dr.Manhatten, and never think about it again.
Dr Manhatten killed way more people than the Comedian. And people view the Comedian as the villian. The Comedian would find that hilarious.
Silk Spectre and Night Owl both get sexual thrills from brutaly beating people while in a costume. Rorsarch is a straight up homophobic psychopath.
Osymandias, the 'actual villain', while unbelievably arrogant has the goal of World Peace and preventing a Nuclear apocalypse.
That's what The Watchmen does well. Creates moral ambiguity in it's 'Heros & Villains'.
Nah, the comedian was rapin and killin in Vietnam. So that makes him worse and the villain.
@@Gryffyth_Aurum And he was there, beside Dr.Manhatten, while the Dr killed how many with just a thought?
But nobody ever holds Dr Manhatten to account.
He made the point "Why did you watch me do it? you could have stopped it and you chose not to". Dr Manhatten chose to allow it. It was within his power to stop it all. And he didn't. That's the 'joke'.
The Comedian is undoutedly a villain. The "Joke" is also that he is a government sanctioned "Good Guy". He was the only one of the MinuteMen to keep working for the government after they outlawed Masked Vigilianties. Because they needed him to do their dirty work. He is the square jawed, wise cracking, "make a funny one liner after brutaly killing someone" kind of hero that is the bread & butter of most Superhero comics. The Comedian is the mirror of society, and it hates to look at itself.
And Rorschach is essentially a fascist. There are almost no "good guys" in this movie, and pretty much everyone is damaged on some human level. This book was truly a masterpiece.
Good point. I've seen several reaction to Watchmen and I don't anyone protested what Manhatten did in Vietman. He didn't even need to kill them. He could just teleport them into a jail cell.
@@rrmenton8016 Yes. A total fascist, and certifiably insane - his true identity being "that crazy homeless guy with the 'THE END IS NIGH!" sign".
He also had the most unflinching "Good vs Evil" mentality. Which is why, even if world peace could be threatened, he will do what he thinks is the morally "good" thing.
Alan Moore really is a genius. Everyone should read the Watchmen comic, it is way better than the film. It does things that are only possibly in the comic book format that elevates the story telling to a whole other level.
Night Owl and Rorschach thinking they had Adrian "monologuing", only to ge gobstopped by the reveal of "I did it thirty-five" minutes ago" really turns the classic comic book trope on its ear.
Having seen this in theaters, I can confirm that some of the blue dongs and the ridiculous sex seen were in it.
They also left out a great exchange in the graphic novel. Ozymandias asks Dr. Manhattan if everything he was right because everything worked out in the end and Manhattan says tells him that nothing ever ends and then leaves him to stew on that thought.
And Ozy's shadow on the wall echos the 'nulcear war' shadows that graffiti artists have been spraying on wall all through the movie...
to be fair, the "ridiculous" sex scene it's in the comic... the movie has other more relevant issues
I agree that the Manhattan “nothing ever ends” should NOT have been cut. However, your point about the scenes being “ridiculous” is the point. The movie is a satire of movies without winking at the audience. So if you feel like certain parts of it are absurd or ridiculous, then the movie succeeded.
@@Iknowthelaw13 Just because it's "the point", doesn't mean it helps the movie.
@@JulioLeonFandinho It doesn't make them NOT ridiculous just cuz they were in the comic too.
this comic changed comics so much that what may seem mundane ( super heroes with flaws?!?!) was ground breaking. its so fundamental we take it for granted now.
especially now ppl dont understand the threat of nuclear war was so scary . imagine the fear around covid but the fact it could fall form the sky and kill u instantly
The key aspect of Dr. Manhattan which is obscured by the film’s reference to “parallel realities” is that Jon’s seeing the future is a prison. Once he’s seen it his free will ceases because his vision of the future is absolutely correct (though he only really sees his own future). So he can’t seemingly interfere as he just now has to watch the events unfold-otherwise he wouldn’t have seen that future. It’s kind of brain breaking when you think about it. The fly in the ointment here though is that Jon’s entire personality seems very passive, and we can’t help but wonder if his seeing the future just played into his already passive nature. Jon’s motivations become super weird too. Is he doing something because he wants to or because he has to? There’s a metatextual element here where he’s essentially aware that he’s caught in an unchangeable narrative-a fictional character who’s aware he’s playing a predetermined script.
The comic is essentially asserting that the story takes place in a deterministic universe where free will does not exist. The characters who are ignorant of their predetermined course of action believe they have free will, but from Dr. Manhattan’s point of view there is no such thing. The story only happens one way-there are no choices involved. Dr. Manhattan can just look a few pages ahead in the story-he can’t change the story.
40:36 - I'm pretty sure Comedian mentioned the names of the two reporters that broke Watergate, and he mentioned them in terms of a job, so I think that Watergate never happened.
the film is a very faithful adaption of the original 12 issue miniseries. There is one major change from the comic that is a bone of contention amongst fans but I'll let you discover that on your own.
The graphic novel is well worth your time to read, as well as anything written by Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Swamp Thing, Miracle Man, ect.)
They should watch Swamp Thing , nice Wes Craven movie from 1982 (its still on YT) , he did that 2 years before Nightmare on elms street .
@@pete_lind better seen after reading the Alan Moore issues and keeping in mind the time period the film was produced in. It's pretty cheesy in retrospect.
Moore warped me in a good way in the mid to late 80s. That crazy ol' hermit will always be a hero to me.
@@bghammock same same 🤪
The film is only faithful in the visuals of the graphic novel. The tone of the story and the overall message is changed, and I don't think the film's version is better.
Rorschach was a badass character but he was also totalitarian in his view of justice. Things were black/white, he didn't believe in grey. His world is harsh, strict, and without mercy. You follow the rules, no exceptions, or you're punished.
Inspector Javert's sort of hero, then? 🤔 😕
@@goldenager59 Kind of funny isn't it. The same motives applied to Rorschach don't work when applied to someone else. If Haven't was beating the hell out of obvious criminals he wouldn't be in the wrong, would he? So was Rorschach right in his totalitarianism? Can the same stark contrast really be applied to all "guilty" he fights?
Would Rorschach still be the hero if he killed Jean Valjean?
yet somehow he seems to be the most liked by people. People just love that wish fulfillment of someone punishing the wicked.
I mean he is also the only one advocating for truth and free will. So there’s that 🤷🏾♂️😂😂👍🏾✌🏾
@@B-DadLike the Comedian... He's... Divisive. But at least he's a bit more likable.
10:11 The Disturbed one is a cover. Not the original. The one they're playing in this scene is the original from 1965 by Simon & Garfunkel. The Disturbed cover is also from 2015. 6 years after this movie was released in 2009.
A little trivia at the opening sequence, 2:23 when og Nite Owl is punching a guy outside of a theatre, there are people behind, they're the Waynes, so Bruce's parents gets saved, there is no need to Batman to exists in this world. It's amazing.
22:00 when Ozymandias stands before the window, talking about energy policy, the dirigible slowly moves toward the twin towers, then it cuts back and the towers are consumed in clouds. That moment hit really hard when I saw it on the big screen.
With the exception of Sucker Punch and Legend Of The Guardians, the Sept. 11 attacks haunt Zack Snyder's work. He even directed the Budweiser Tribute ad that aired once during Super Bowl XXXVI.
Its interesting you point that out, I hadn't considered it but thinking back to dawn of the deads opening, or the mentality of 300, you kind of make a good point!
The graphic novel this movie came from was meant to deconstruct the nature of "superheroes". If real people had super powers they'd be jsut as flawed, jsut as power-hungry, just as detached, just as mentally ill, just as arrogant or deeply disturbed or trauma-ridden. They'd just have costumes or powers. That's about it. At the time it came out, everyione hailed Alan Moore as one of the comic book industries most gifted writers. Watchmen is pretty brilliant take on the entire genre. He theorized that people or society wouldn't really change, that people with powers or abilities would, depending on a lot of outside circumstances, some would do the right thing, but most of them would be pretty messed up individuals. Good analogy of Rorshach would be theburned out cop who's seen too much and doesnt pull his punches and uses his gun freely on criminals with no reservations whatsoever. A lot of the characters - with the exception of Night Owl and Silk Spectre II - are really messed up individuals. Watchmen won a lot of awards because of how its writer thought outside the box psychologically.
the graphic novel ends differently than the movie and in my opinion the graphic novel works better for the very reason you stated, how long would it last? well in the graphic novel instead of setting up the Manhattan like radiation explosions Ozymandias uses a vastly "different" enemy that the world unites against... and the tv series answers the how long question by showing that Ozymandias routinely reminds the world of that evil by faking small scale reoccurrences that keep the people of the world fearing the return and united
You guys really caught all the nuances between the characters from the very beginning. It's quite nice to watch reactions from people who actually follow the plot.
One of my friends is in this movie. She played Rorschach's mom. You can see her @ 24:18.
"I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me." is still the hardest line I've ever heard in anything.
George: Knows Ozymandias was named after the Pharoah Ramses II.
Also George: "That's a lot of blue dongs."
When they made this movie, they left out one little scene that I think is vital for Adrian. After Rorschach was killed and before Jon left, Adrian and Jon spoke. That conversation (which I wont repeat... if you don't know it, go read it :) ) is so important for Adrian. It is the conversation that changes him from villain to trapped hero in my view.
You got that right
Rorschach is my favorite part of this movie, and the actor who plays him, Jackie Earl Haley, is highly underrated.
One of the funniest panels in the graphic novel is when the tip about Rorschach gets called in to the police and the detective taking the call asks "Why would we care about raw shark?"
Alan Moore's masterpiece of writing. The graphic novel was voted one of the 100 Best Novels Of All Time by Time magazine. The film follows the graphic novel quite closely. Oh, the Smiley Face crater on Mars is real - it's name is Galle Crater.
33:14 You can actually buy a mask like his. It's got a special ink that appears and disappears with heat, so it changes designs when you take a breath.
Alan Moore, writer of the graphic novel, was pretty militantly _against_ any film adaptation. He believed that moving it to a different media would completely change the tone -- in print, you can linger on each horrible thing as it happens; it film, it just comes at you as a fire hose. This runs the risk of making horrible brutality seem like a badass fight scene.
And he was right. Snyder basically made a panel-by-panel adaptation, with each shot framed and each character posed the same as in the GN. But now, fans of the film tend to like Rorschach, while fans of the GN know him as a monster.
FWIW, although Moore was also against any TV adaptation, I think the HBO series actually stays true to the tone and theme of the book. That's mostly because (as a sequel) it can tell a different story, written and shot for TV from the ground up.
Amen and well said
To be fair, I love Alan Moore but he is a giant pain in the ass, dude is never satisfied about anything.
@@Vesohag Yeah I think we all realized Rorschach is fucked up but so is pretty much everyone else in this world.
@@Vesohag Might have to reread the novel again though, been a while and still one of my favorite
@@Vesohag Point taken on the first one, I didn't know that. Personally I think the cinematography, etc, still undercuts the literal text of the script, but maybe that's just me.
On the second one, I should rephrase: many if not most fans of the GN, including myself, did enjoy Rorschach as a compelling character -- but recognized him as more of a villain and stand-in archetype for real-life bigoted crusaders. People who watch the movie are more likely to miss that, and just view him as a badass who happens to have a few forgivable character flaws. (There are obviously plenty of exceptions in both readers and viewers, but these are the trends I've seen.)
The irony that Doctor Manhattan literally turned Rorschach into a giant Rorshach.....
The theatrical version definitely included the blue dongs and the sex scene. It was a bit surprising, to say the least.
When my brother saw it in theaters when it came out, some people were getting annoyed with the softcore porn part of the movie. When they started having sex for the bazillionth time, someone yelled out "AGAIN?!" lol
I'm glad I missed seeing it on the big screen. The thought of having giant blue wangs swinging around on the big screen is terrifying. :P
It's interesting how human beings being blown up into pieces of meat manages not to shock as much as a penis.
@40:34 I don't remember if it was touched on in the movie, but IIRC in the graphic novel The Comedian implied that he killed Woodward and Bernstein to cover up Watergate
The Sound of Silence cover by Disturbed came out 6 years after this movie.
And all the music they licensed was recorded before the movie's *setting* in 1985.
The Disturbed version of The Sound of Silence did not exist when this movie was made
"He didn't have to kill the dog". Personally, if I had a big Rott that had acquired a taste for raw human flesh, I would prolly feel the need to put him down.
Exactly. Although that dog is just as much a victim as anyone else, it would still need to be put down for the common good.
There is a reason why dogs get put down after they attack people and that they send hunters to kill animals that have attacked people. When an animal acquires that taste and that level of fearlessness towards humans, they are more likely to attack again and this could cause a chain reaction where other animals start to follow suit. I love animals but not to death. I know that they are dangerous and humans should not fuck with wildlife without proper training.
Lol yeah, put that beast down. Goes to show that people care less about their own and more about... Animals.
Yes. In the graphic novel Rorschach was short. They mentioned he had lifts in his shoes to make him seem taller.
i would say that the characters having superpowers comes from the fact that humans in superhero genre always seem capable of doing superhuman feats through sheer will and training.some characters like batman and daredevil do a lot of crazy shit that's impossible for normal/real humans and its mostly attributed to the fact that the superhero genre is more fantastical than realistic.
watchmen is about superheros existing in the real world. how would they effect it and how would they effect the normal people around them. not necessarily about them being realistic or practical. i mean we have a guy who's made out of pure energy and ozymandias is able to catch a bullet.
@@NoHandleGrr in the comic ozymandias catches the bullet after he reveals his plan. wouldn't you call that a superhuman feat.
@@NoHandleGrr I guess I disagree; it kind of depends on your definition of super-powers. I think Ozymandias is a kind of superhuman. He's touted as "the smartest man in the world", and is able to do incredible feats through years of training and transcendental mediation. And taking hallucinogens I guess. He's not godlike in the way that Dr. Manhattan is, but he's a person who has been able to reach the pinnacle of human potential. Catching a bullet is a little beyond just somebody doing something exaggerated because they're a hero. Especially in this universe which is more grounded in some version of reality, he's definitely touted as something extraordinary.
@@NoHandleGrr The way Batman is generally depicted, I would say no, he doesn't have super-powers. He's a clever guy with lots of gadgets, and he's a good fighter, and a master tactician. But he can be overpowered pretty easily by many of the crazier denizens of Gotham City who have actual physical enhancements. He can beat up thugs easily enough, but he usually has to outsmart his more imposing foes.
Night Owl II is clearly the Batman analogue. Ozymandias is something else, almost like a Greek demigod.
@@greyambrosia But its not becasue he has "powers". he love for the pharos had him studying all types of ancient ideas and teachings. One of those things was how to unlock the bodies full mental and physical abilities, using pure will. Since he is the world's smartest man, he was able to figure out how to do this. Thats why he was able to catch the bullet. He is literally in top physical and mental form.
This movie always get everybody to think about so many things overlooked of daily life... It's an amazing way to make you want to read the graphic novel.
After seeing Dawn of the Dead, 300 and this, I was a full-fledged Snyder fan. That opening credits sequence was absolutely amazing.
@@aerthreepwood8021 Hack Snyder? Really good film maker but he should never write his own films
@Memoquin Facts. Dawn of the dead was written by someone else, (might've been James gunn, if I recall) and that movie turned out awesome.
Army of the Dead was one of the worst movies I have ever seen. I was really looking forward to it since I was a fan of Snyder's earlier stuff like the dawn of the dead remake and 300. I even liked Man of Steel I know a lot of people didnt like that movie so much. But Army of the dead was sooo horribly written and directed that there was nothing that redeemed it. From the first scene when the military convoy gets into that accident caused by road head I knew it was going to suck.
Well, considering he copied this movie and 300 almost to a framefrom their source material, and James Gunn wrote Dawn of the Dead, you should maybe reconsder that opinion.
@@Memoquin Yep, Zack "The Hack" Snyder.
one of my all time favourites! though happy the thumbnail cut off where it did :P
Rorschach is such a brilliant character for sure.
1:29 I'm old enough to remember catching snippets of the mcloughlin group on TV when I was a kid. Him, Eleanor and Pat Buchanan are perfectly imitated hear. I love that this movie put in so many 80s deep cut references, for us "olds". Much as i dislike some Zack Snyder's other movie's, this director's cut, as well as the one for Dawn of the Dead are awesome.
The SNL spoof of The McLaughlin Group with Dana Carvey is hilarious.
Its been a long time since I read it, but I dont remember the mcloughlin group specifically being in the book. I could be wrong.
12:21- I love this conversation. To me this is the convo between to two of the smartest. Ozy, the literal smartest and Comedian, the one who sees what's really going on.
I’m glad they used the original versions of songs in this movie. Especially the original Leonard Cohen version of Hallelujah. Cohen is still criminally underrated in the US, which is a damn shame. Best concert I ever saw.
This was the entire run of the graphic novel, although this actually has a dramatically different ending than the graphic novel/original. Interestingly, the show is (excellent) an *entirely* new story set in the aftermath of the graphic novel's ending. You two would probably really enjoy it. It's very well done and an incredible continuation of a story thought to be concluded ;)
ua-cam.com/video/ut3QkuarFsA/v-deo.html
I thought the show was fantastic.
@@michaelconnor1542 interesting that you would say that, knowing the kind of people in the show who are the bad guys.
@@michaelconnor1542 Yes, that's a pretty revealing comment. You might want to re-watch the show while looking in a mirror.
@@michaelconnor1542 it's interesting that you say that about an Alan Moore story, and i now he didn't write the series,but if you read his comics you know his point of view about it
The original graphic novel version of Watchmen was supposed to be a reboot of the Charlton Comics characters which DC had recently bought out, but given the darker tone and content in Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' pitch, the company decided they wanted to keep those characters free of Watchmen's baggage and so the creators reworked them to be OCs with different names and slightly different "powers"/theming - The Question became Rorschach, Blue Beetle II became Nite Owl II, Nightshade became Silk Spectre, Peter Cannon the Thunderbolt became Ozymandias, Captain Atom became Dr Manhattan and Peacemaker (yes, as in John Cena's Peacemaker) became the Comedian. Ironically, while the Charlton heroes have had arcs in the comics since and the Peacemaker show is obviously a big crossover hit, they've largely been supplanted by their Watchman counterparts.
I actually love this movie. I recently read the graphic novel and surprisingly it’s very accurate. The big difference is instead of it being a bunch of bombs made with Dr Manhatten’s energy they made like a faked an alien attack.
That's far for being the big difference lol
@@AbdulrashidSadulaevFan777 well ok fair. The one that stands out to me. It’s been a while since I read it. Much of the dialogue and scenes were the same. I wish they would have fleshed out that psychologist guy like they did in the graphic novel. I know Rorschach burned that one guy alive in his house and didn’t hack him up.
The Disturbed version of Sound of Silence came out in 2015. Watchmen came out in 2009. Not to mention, all the music they're using is of the specific time/era.
When you think about other comics, this is supposed to be a critique with actual psychology behind it. The Batman who chose to keep his weak alternate identity, the punisheresque hero who knows humanity too much to where he knows brutality required to change anything. The Superman who lnows you either do everything or nothing.
I think it's an exploration of various moral philosophies, Comedian = Moral Nihilism, Rorschach = Moral Absolutism, Ozy = Consequentialism, Dr. Manhattan = Existentialism
And interesting they all fail to solve the problems ahead of them because of a flaw in their moral system. The Comedian finds he can't truly live without a conscience. Rorschach can't comprise on his morals even to stop a nuclear holocaust. Ozy is the smartest man alive but can't foresee all of the consequences and misses something... Rorschach's journal.
@@styot Actually, in a weird way, Rorschach is the most existential of them all.
"Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach."
I'll join what I'm assuming are many, many other comments in saying that now that you've seen the movie and marveled at many of the story ideas, you really owe it to yourself to read the original Graphic Novel by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. It is a seminal work in modern comics and even better than the film.
I was 16 and 17 when this series was printed and it was the second "grown up" comic series I had read; the first being The Dark Knight Returns. Miller and Moore were gods in this time period by the way. I didn't re-read the series as a whole until my 20s and realized wow, I missed a lot reading an issue a month (sometimes longer depending on publishing, or Moore, issues). Reading the series again now or just watching the movie which was a great adaptation (with an altered means to an end ending .. think Stephan King weirdness and you have Moore's original means, but same general outcome for Veidt's plan) just leaves me numb and processing. And that, is a good thing. In the mid-late 80's, this was stand alone 12 issue series, but I haven't really kept up with what they might have retro'd into it since because I thought this was enough.
The 'Watchmen' movie was set in 1985, that was why the original 60's version by Simon & Garfunkel of 'The sound of silence' was used... instead of Disturbed's 2015 cover.
The HBO tv show explains how peace is maintained. Important to know that the TV show follows canon from the comic book and not the movie, so there's slight differences.
The GN is definitely worth a read, it goes into a lot of the history in all different mediums, such as excerpts from Nite Owl 1's book, and Classified Government Documents.
I first read this book as an 11 year old, and the moment where Hollis Mason fights the Top-Knots, with flashbacks to his youth, was the last thing I read before I had to go to sleep, and because of it... I couldn't. Crazily, that is one of the scenes missing from the Theatrical Cut!
if uou want to see a great Jackie Earl Hailey performance (Rorschack), watch Little Children. You could also watch the original Bad News Bears
@12:33 Niteowl keeps Rorschach back like, "Easy, buddy."
Would be great to see you react to Unbreakable. One of the best superhero movies.
On a TV in a background of a shot, The Outer Limits episode "The Architects of Fear" is playing. The basic plot for this movie came from that episode.
I was never too happy with the movie's change of Veidt's plan to blame Manhattan, for the reasons you cited and also the fact that he is too tied to the US military up to that point in time, it leaves too much room for the world to blame the US for the attack/enabling Manhattan all those years.
The graphic novel takes a very different direction with the plan which makes more sense, but I understand that it would have been harder to fit into the film
The TV show, which is great, uses the original plan though, so read up on the original before watching!
That's a weird take. Having read the GN a number of times, and watched the movie several times, the movie ending framing Manhattan makes much more sense than a giant fake squid alien. Manhattan "attacks" multiple major cities, including US cities. Every country notices this. Manhattan already had the power to do it, and all the major super powers know it. They also know he's been acting very unstable, given his TV appearances.
As for the hbo show, I don't even know where to begin with that trainwreck bastardization. Its clear Lindeloff never should have had anything to do with it, and had no idea what Watchmen was about. How anyone enjoys it is beyond me. Several characters act nothing like themselves, and are written as such to make a crappy plot take place that takes a big steamy dump on the original story.
Dethtones...I see you dont get it at all
@@davidking498 lol. Sure. What ever you say.
@@faded1to3black I agree. Framing Manhattan instead of going the way of having them fear an alien attack using a giant centipede like creature and a massive mind control tactic that put people in fear would have been a bit too much if you get what I mean.
The TV show was garbage.
The comic mini series this film is based on was placed on Time magazine’s list of top 100 literary works of the 20th century.
The frontal nudity was in the theatrical release, and the love scene between Dan and Laurie was meant to be funny. 🙂
The movie changes the ending that appears in the limited series (eventually reprinted as a graphic novel) and, honestly, improves on it.
However, the TV show continues from the graphic novel ending, and not the film's ending, and takes place a generation later. It's good, too, though.
This story was a watershed moment, in U.S. comic-book history. DC decided to release it without the seal of the Comics Code Authority (CCA), even though that would keep it out of the newsracks in grocery stores and pharmacies. They were able to do so, because the direct-sales avenues -- both mail-order and comic shops -- were so widespread, the series could bypass those traditional distribution routes, but still reach a vast market.
Watchmen, basically, broke the CCA, and took the shackles off the writers and artists who worked on comics and graphic novels, in the U.S.
9:35 That's actually where the meme came from.
10:00 Because it didn't exist yet, ye gods.
The graphic novel is a must read if you enjoy the movie. The film, specially this cut, covers pretty much the entire run of the original comic but it has some dramatic changes in the plot. There has been some expanded universe stories which different degrees of quality, but the novel can (and I think should) be read as it's own thing.
lmao 19:45 the length of the blur you used, you're killing me
After this you should watch Sucker Punch just for the fantasy scenes
"I'm not locked in here with you .... YOU'RE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!"
Perspective is a powerful thing.
all the music relates to the time period events are happening. The Sound of Silence is from the 60s.
if you read the graphic novel you will see what an amazing job of casting characters & following the story Snyder did. The only major change is what Viedt did to bring peace. Perhaps Zack thought it was too much.
This is my favorite Hero movie. The universe it creates is awesome.
When you were talking about 'how long could peace last?' You have to remember that there would be entire generations of people that grew up with peace, the elder generations would be dead and the younger would know nothing but that. Also it would be generations of prosperity with unlimited energy, I would assume that Veight hoped this would be sufficient building blocks for a long lasting even permanent peace rather than them resuming their squabbles a few decades later.
Watchmen (HBO) is a great mini series. It's a continuation of the graphic novel (different ending from the theatrical release) set in 2019. It's definitely worth a watch!
That series is an insult to the source material. Absolute garbage.
Great reaction!
BTW, Disturbed's cover of Sound of Silence didn't even exist yet at the time of Watchmen. That cover wouldn't exist until 2015. The world was extremely familiar with Simon and Garfunkel's original for over 4 decades when this movie came out.
The Watchmen Series is great but you have to read the graphic novel first since it follows that timeline. Also Alan Moore is psycho genius to come up with changed worlds like this. (Read his Miracleman comic)
I don't think it is needed to read the novel, the movie gives you enough of a idea of the history to follow the series.
You do *not* need to read the graphic novel first.
No showrunners in their right mind would make reading a prerequisite, because they're more than happy to give you what you need to enjoy their story.
If I could spend a day having a conversation with anyone who ever lived, my first choice would be Diogenes of Sinop. My second choice would be Alan Moore.
Maybe I should have said should read it since the squids make more sense and it's also a better view into the characters
This film came out a long time before Disturbed did their version of sound of Silence... they're also using music from the time period of when the film is set.
And yes... the dongs and sex scene were in the theatrical version... I can tell you one thing... seeing it on a cinema screen... that's not an image you can easily wipe from your mind...
I have a real love-hate-relationship with this movie. One the one hand there are scenes I really love - on the other it get's quite a few points fundamentally wrong (in my opinion at least): There is this whole attitude of "Wow, it's a superheromovie for adults, so there must be lots of violence and sex!" The film is way more explicite than the book and I just don't see the point. Watchmen should be hard to watch, because it's a morally grey world with deep messages about what it means to be human, not because there are people exploding in bloody gore all over the screen. It's just too violent for the sake of it, so I can't blame you guys for thinking the watchmen have real superpowers. In the comic it's very clear that (apart from Dr. M of course) they are just broken individuals who play dress up to feel better. The one exeption being Ozymandias, who really saves the world in the end, but becomes a mass murderer in the process. And this is the one point I can't get over: Ozymandias is totaly misscast. The actor really comes across as a plotting supervillain from the start (as you noticed), when he was everything but in the book: In a way he was meant to be the peak of human physical, intellectual and spiritual abilities (maybe like a Lex Luthor-type against Dr Manhattans Superman) But he was also charming, thoughtful and - dare I say - funny at times, so it was a real surprise to see him as the endboss "villain".
I would really like to see your opinion on the Watchmen-TV Show, although they somehow managed to do poor old Ozymandias an even bigger disservice.
Greetings from Germany!
Absolutely agree about the Ozymandias casting. After Knives Out and Sunshine, I think Chris what's his name (Captain America) wouldve pulled it off pretty well.
In the comic there is practically no physical violence shown till the end, when suddenly in an huge wide shot new york is full of bloody corpses. The movie did the opposit, extrem violence over the entire plot, but a steril clean blue light ball and a whole in the ground.
I don't know, I thought Jeremy Irons did a good job as an old, disillusioned yet still ferociously smart Adrian Veidt. Also, I've always felt the tonal oddity of this film (compared to the source material) is due to the graphic novel being written by a card carrying anarchist who took potshots at every political stripe whereas the film was done by an Ayn Rand loving Objectivist who sanded off all the rough edges that slighted folks like Reagan or Thatcher. The substitution of one RR name reference for another at the end was a bit of a dead giveaway. Also, also - did they spend like a buck ninety-five on the old age makeup for the film? It's literally worse than '80s old age makeup. The absolute worst I've ever seen in a big budget modern film. All that being said, it's a beautiful film (as Snyder's films often are) even if it relies a little heavily on the slo-mo.
Vor allem Rorschachs glorifizierung finde ich besorgniserregend… Past aber zu allem was Snyder sonst noch raushaut.
@@Coldwater-sw6me Bei 300 konnte man das immerhin noch als Kommentar über Kriegspropaganda lesen - aber wenn er anfängt Rorschach und Nightowl2 zu coolen Actionhelden zu machen hört der Spaß auf. Erinnert mich an die Szene, in der Ozy die Watchmen als Sammel-Actionfiguren vermarkten will...