Wow seeing this video has put a smile on my face. I'm very happy to see you doing your own top 10 video (and hopefully series) ironically your first episode is about top 10 cavalry, just as mine was :) Unfortunately I could not continue the series as stuff gets in the way, therefore I am grateful to see you continuing/starting the series! Keep doing more videos like this Galu they are a joy to watch! I would also like to take the opportunity and thank you for all the support you gave me when I used to do videos! Keep up the good work!
"They look the best on the list, they come from the best nation, they're objectively the best, but unfortunately they aren't really. They only come second." Never change.
Great video, I loved the way you went about determining the best units, not just by looking at their stats, which is how I imagine the other lists of this nature were compiled. I also appreciate that you managed to stay, mostly, objective throughout, ranking the units as they should be, as opposed to how you would have wanted them to be (*cough* knights of the silver swan,*cough*). Obviously I would have liked the Arthedain Royals to have placed higher, as I love the Northern Dunedain as a faction in DaC & I love the story of Arnor in the lore, & the Arthedain Royal Guard look really good in their old Arnorian plate. So yeah, im also disappointed that my favorite unit wasnt the best, but im glad you kept it professional, as much as I know it pained you to name the Knights of the Silver Swan anything but 1st. Great video Galu, as all your videos are.
It's odd how I have never played DaC and yet watch even videos like this. I love the new video style and can't wait for more videos like this. I'm also so glad that you found a hobby like UA-cam, that can offer you a platform to entertain so many, keep up the good work!
This was a really great change to the video line up you have Galu. I was actually shocked that some of the heavier kataphract units did not perform as well as expected. I will add that numbers 1, 2 and 5 of this listing win for unit design.
Considering that cavalry's main job is to hammer and anvil enemy infantry, at least for the elite cavalry that is, the lighter ones are designed to chase archers/routing units, how these cavalry units perform against each other isn't really a good metric. Especially since some cavalry units have bonuses against cavalry while others don't. If this was their main role than sure this should be very significant, but since it isn't I feel it skewed the results in favor of an attribute that is rarely relevant.
With Rohans royal bodyguard being so mediocre, could you perhaps consider making them a custom bodyguard for Theoden (or another important Rohan character perhaps)? Considering the normal Rohan bodyguard is even worse... Poor Rohan needs some love :c
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Let's not forget there are over 100 cavalry units in DaC and the royal guard were in the top 10. They may not be the best individually but they are right up there. :-)
Also the Royal Guard are faster than at least 75% of the units on this list - it may even just be the Eldarinwe that are faster. That counts for a good deal on the battlefield and suits Rohan's extreme mobility excellently.
Glad to see unit comparisons for DaC. Reminded me of Pixelated Apollo’s top ten cavalry video in the base game a couple of years back. In first place were the Guild-based Teutonic Knights - not because their stats were particularly good, but because their 2nd attack was an armour-piercing mace, which beat out all of the competition. I imagine if the Tirith Aear Knights were given lances, they would have made it much farther. On a second note, I’m glad to see the super-wargs take third. It’s not often you see lancer-class cavalry get some love (just because they’re high-maintenance cycle-charge units that require a lot of focus to handle well. Most players I’ve seen tend to treat their cavalry either as a mop-up crew for routing enemies or cataphract-class cavalry that are thrown in melee and can handle themselves for a little while. Consequently, units in the base game like Demi Lancers, Gendarmes, and French Lancers don’t see much use outside of campaign throwaway units, but cavalry such as Feudal and Chivalric Knights, Broken Lances, and Chapter (Templar, Hospitaller, Santiago, Teutonic) Knights will be used in multiplayer as well as the campaign. Looking forward to future videos like this one!
*_"I imagine if the Tirith Aear Knights were given lances, they would have made it much farther."_* Not necessarily. I think the reason they won against all other cavalry is because of their AP but if they got lances they would lose their AP since lances don't have AP.
Glueless Rug Apologies. I meant that if they were given lances in addition to their present armament, then they would be much better in the listings. The way Arachir structured this video (from what I understand), cavalry performance was based on two factors: 1.) Effectiveness versus spearmen (particularly on the charge). This is the ideal of lancer-class cavalry. 2.) Effectiveness versus other cavalry (on an “even” playing field with a focus on prolonged melee performance). This is the ideal of cataphract-class cavalry. Because the TA Knights have maces with an AP stat, they perform extremely well in instance #2. This is mostly because the best cavalry in the mod are guaranteed to have heavy armor - now negated/halved by the mace. This effect is amplified by the fact that TA Knights are unique in that the only weapon they have is armor piercing. To my knowledge, no other cavalry in the mod have this particular combination of stats. Adversely, because the TA Knights lack a lance primary attack to accompany a mace secondary, their charge is quite weak. This means they underperform in instance #1. Due to the near pike-like qualities of a cavalry lance in a charge, the absence of a lance renders the TA Knights both unable to perform effective morale shocks and severely handicapped when trying to dispose of enemy units swiftly. They are, by nature, a long-lasting heavy cavalry unit that can fill the role of line infantry quite well, even against shock or heavy infantry. Were they to be given a lance in addition, they would be nigh unstoppable except by pikes and stakes. That was my implication.
Glueless Rug Though they should if you think about it, completely understand why they don;t though lol as fun as it would be to see units getting obliterated in a single charge more than they already do.
I'd greatly like to see this for every unit I've always wondered which was the best cavalry and I too thought the knights of the silver swan was the best so that did come as a shock but of course elven units are the top dog in everything lol. Loved the video and I did like the little transitions between each unit, it was clean, crisp and seamless I guess you could say lol and was overall very well done so good on ya. Can't wait to see the next video on this if you do decide to do the next one and I definitely can't wait to see the next version of DAC I absolutely love DAC and glad to see its still getting regular updates thank you so much for that and have a wonderful day good sir. :)
I dont know if the eldarinwe lancers would lose much if you consider the campaign map in. Yes they are damn expensive bit so are most of these cav units in the list, yes they replenish rather slowly but so do most of these units in this list, but they are available everywhere and thats what most of these cav units lack because they are aor units.
@@PvtRainbow Im not to sure about that you usually have 20+ settlements before the be if you play as the high elves. And at least 12 of them should be at 80+ culture when you can recruit the eldarinwe units. Also every race has that culture "problem" with their elite units so thats not really a downside to one nation seperately since everyone has the same issue.
Please do keep going with this series. It's definitely fun to see how the units from different nations with different combinations of attributes stack up, and also to see who can surprise their way onto a list. I am curious, though, have you thought about how you'll define or split up certain unit types? Things like whether regular archers and crossbowmen will be in separate categories or the same one, or how many different infantry categories there will be (sword/board, spearmen, strike infantry, pikemen/halberdiers)?
Wow, i love it! Everything, thumbnail, the end, this series format, your Dol Amroth enthusiasm, excellent narration, everything! Keep it up Arachír Galu. :)
I've always known that Bolg's Champions are incredible. Love them and playing for OOMM as well. Remember how once Champions evaporated half of full banner Imladris army :)
Wow, imagine how good the Imladris riders (or something like that, Glorfindel's old unit) would have scored. They were like the lancers but on steroids.
I know you have been fiddling with this fof a while now, but perhaps you still wish some feedback. Once you get to Rohan's royal guard on #8, the music may be too loud compared to your speech on earbuds. Of course it may be taste though I figured that you may be interested in testing this. For me it was most obvious when you discussed the royal guard on 8 (4:30) Also: I do think that for your interest, you could check the top 10 when charging into gondor swordsmen which I think may turn around some stuff such as the temple knights result. And of course armour piercing does a lot
This is a great video idea, I can't wait to see it on other unit type. As an idea, I am sure you have a spreadsheet with all the information you said during the video, maybe it would be interesting to have it on the screen at the end so we can have a global view of who beats who, who charge good, etc. Maybe you could do some specific ranking like "What are the best units to take down trolls/balrgos/mumakil" or "what are the best unit to sustain an elite cavalry charge" or things like this. All in all, great video!
Well the serpent guard are comparatively garbage. Harads defence stats in general are quite low but if you take the campaign into account they might break into the top 10
I will say that the Loke Innas Rim should get more credit, maybe not enough to change their ranking as #9, but enough for a shout out. I mean, on the charge they beat out everyone else on spearmen killed up until Bolg's Champions. They're also like solid gold and that's always a plus.
I do agree that they're quite an amazing unit, but their advantage lies more in availability and costs. You can basically field 2 times as much heavy cavalry as any other nation on the list (Barring Khand) and from anywhere too
Really interesting and entertaining video Galu! Any chance you could do a top 10 Heavy Infantry next? I am also rather interested how infantry mass comes into play and what effect not having kill animations have (like dwarves and bree bodyguard).
A point about your methodology, if I may. You say at the start that it is impossible to quantify how much better a cavalry unit is when it is available in four locations compared to six. However, you don't need to quantify this measure, it is about relative ranking. So could it be potentially done by ranking the units based on the number of units that can be trained from fifty turns if the nation held 10 regions (including starting regions)? Tirith Aear Knights come from one location so it is simply how often they can be trained within those fifty turns, whilst Loke Innas Rim can be trained from far more locations and potentially more frequently (I don't know off the top of my head), thus putting them ahead of the Tirith Aear for a campaign availability factor?
No honorable mentions?! Galu you monster! I am somewhat surprised to not see knights of carn dum not appearing on the list. They are also AP and i figured would have trounced the warlords cataracts
I though that warlords Kataphracts would be somewhere between top 7 and top 5 but whats how the game works every unit has its own weakness by the way i really liked this video keep up the great work
They get some bonus points for their pretty good speed and being available everywhere, but there are still better units in a one on one fight. They'll more than get the job done however.
Great video! While the winner did not come as a surprise, it is a bit sad to see, that the pointy ears boyz got this one. Always had mixed feelings about heavy armored for elves, esp. about heavy cav. Happy for the warg riders though - GO GOBLINS! :)
Liked the video, I’d even like to see it with lesser cav...been using the Lorien Lancers recently and although they die quite readily their charges seem ridiculously good for a non-elite unit
I think a lot of the confusion of how effective a unit it is comes from their application in battle, people generally don't charge them headlong into a solid spear unit, so people's opinions will be skewed if they'll always flanking and/or charging heavy and light infantry.
He probably did thaat because almost all of these cav units destroy light and heavy infantry in 1 charge so you cant compare them perfectly. If you take a spear unit that doesnt die in a single charge you can.
I just wanted to say something unrelated to the topic, but in my last campaign, boromir actually routed in countless battles even tho his morale is locked.
Can we also have a top 10 shock infantry, top 10 pikes and top 10 spears too? Maybe top 10 "monsters" (trolls, troll-men, mumakil, Great Beasts, Ents, Barrow-Wights, Castellans, possibly Wargs etc.)
It would be close to 10 yeah, Rhun has 3,gondor 1,Mordor1,Dwarves have 2,Dorwinion 1,Dale 1,Mirkwood orcs have 1. thats 10 might be 1 or more i missed.
Wow very good video, love to see more. Question: concluding that the cavalry-orientated factions (Rohan, Khand) aren't realy in the top tier of the list, are they going to be 'rebalanced' so that they are. In my opninion a cavalry-rorienteted faction should be in the top of the cavalry-list. I you think otherwise, id love to hear why.
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No because this was literally just which UNIT was the best. Rohan's roster is over 50% cavalry they have AP cavalry, lance cavalry, melee cavalry, cavalry archers and cavalry BG. They are completely a cavalry faction. They are not however a heavy knight faction like Dol Amroth ergo they don't have the best single UNIT but they are the best overall cavalry nation. Khand is a cavalry archer nation and they have amazing cavalry archers, they are not a heavy knight faction et cetera....
I thank you for the answer, it cleared the matter up perfectly. Btw...i've been playing and enjoying DaC for a couple of years now and i'm enjoying your videos weekly for, again, a couple of years now...keep up the amazing work! Cheers and have a great weekend, from a fellow Tolkien-enthousiast who has never reacted to one of your videos before (or any other video for that matter) ^^
Charge only on Gondor spearman without upgrades 10-Khamul Shadowknights 9-Tirith Aear Knights 8-Temple Knights 7-Azog Defilers 6-Knights of the Silver Swan 5-Royal Guard 4-Warlord Katapracht 3-Arthetdain Royal Guard 2-Elderinwe Roque 1-Loke Innas-Rim 4,5 and 6 place are tight at 14%
Were you including general's bodyguards in this also? If you do this for archers it would be interesting to see if the armor piercing of the ND bodyguard makes up for having lesser numbers than the steel-bowmen.
intresting yeah, to test this properly one would have to use many targets with increasing armour value. there has to be one point where the AP outweights the higher amount of arrows. my guess would be an armour stat of like 16-18. you just inspired me to test this out myself in the evening :)
I did this kind of thing by myself for infantry, and the smiths of eregion won every time. However, if you were counting the campaign aspect of the unit I doubt it would even be in the top 10 due to how rare it is.
I need no channel youtube! Sorry, I miss used the word "infantry", I only tested units within the sword, mace, axes and halberd unit type. But regardless, the smiths win against every other unit, no matter what type or purpose.
I need no channel youtube! simple answer, no. and it depends on so many variables that it would be really hard to test properly. I mean, sometimes when in formation, half the unit faces the wrong direction for whatever reason. Imo, pikes are only good vs lightly armoured infantry (any target they can kill quickly basically). that's why a crazy push (by click spamming or using shield wall) into a pike formation can be beneficial if the pike unit lacks the attack to kill your units fast enough.
+Jamaly - Divider and Conqueror It can easily.be tested by seeng the casualties taken by a pike unit defending a set chokepoint against a given unit, and a spear unit with the exact same stats doing the same, and looking at the time they hold and the casualities they inflict.
I like this type of video, especially with the extensive testing. I assume you didn't include missle cavalry in this list and the testing, as they perform a different task. Did you test the cavalry bodyguards as part of this test?
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I didn't include missile cavalry exactly for that reason, they are their own beast. BG sadly don't have enough men per battalion to make a list like this. They get trounced by these superior sized and quality units.
I love this mod, and I adore your videos. Could you please though tell me how do you have your UI designed the way you do? That doesn't come on screen unless you move your mouse around their area?
Tyler Ellis Only on your dreams, of course. Fact is ND is quite overrated and other than their white armored units the iron armored ones(like the Royal Guards) looks average(at best) compared to other nations's elites.
After watching this video I see there there are clearly some problems that need to be worked out. I enjoy playing as Rhûn, but I can't understand how it is that a cavalry with such a high mass stat is so weak, especially for an elite unit. I feel like many of the Elite tier cavalry are in need of some reworking just due to the intended purpose behind the units vs their in game stats.
would be interesting to know how many times you repeated the charge test. not surprised that bolg champs did the best though, even the normal wargs have a devastating charge already.
It's surprising to see Rohan coming in so low, considering that they are a horse people, which, one would think, means they live in the saddle by age 5 like the Mongols and HUn
Like Khand. Both the factions which focus on cavalry ended up relatively low on the list. I have speculated earlier that that is because Khand seem very much a skirmisher / hit-and-run type of cavalry nation. They have the others beat when it comes to speed and if they do not they really ought to have the best horsearchers in the game. Rohan, on the other hand, is more focused on the charge. But they, somewhat like Khand, don't get the same quality of armour nations like Gondor and Imladris do. Therefore, while good, they don't fare well in one-on-ones with the heavier cavalry. I will argue that their units ought to have relatively high offensive stats for their price. And possibly improve their spear units so as to have a better shot at withstanding the cataphracts of the D&C world. As they don't get pikes.
Rohan is more like mass amount of cavalry readily available, but not the elite cavalry. They have a lot of variety of cavalry in all tiers, so you normally have cavalry superiority and if you use the different types of cavalry correctly they have an overwhelming effect. For example you have Skirmiser, Missle, lancers, ap high tier cavalry. With that you can beat almost all units. To fill the ranks you always have pleantiful of Rohan riders and maybe even some scouts that mop up, so your more valuable units can do a more important task. As you can see most Rohan high tier cavalry are more specialized than the cavalry seen on the list.
Correct, what defines Rohan and Khand isn't the stats of their units in, say, a one on one duel but the sheer volume and variety of cavalry they can field. No other factions can even come close to fielding as much cavalry as these two even if the individual units might not be THE best in the game. You know if you come up against these two as enemies you're going to have hordes of horsemen dashing left and right all over the battle map more so than any others.
And overwhealming number of cavalry units has not a direct counter, as the mobility of the units and their charges are hard to defend against. Archers protected by infantry can lure the cavalry to attacks sooner that the enemy wants to.
Nice video i liket it but you need to take in to acount the speed to. The speed is very important coz the main use of the cavalry flanking. For example: The northen dunadeins the main 2 heavy cavalry are the Arthedain royal and the dunadein heavy cav. I found in my experience that the dunadain heavy cav is better than the arthedain royal 90% of the time. they can flank faster, can charge faster can chase unit down faster. So you need to take speed in to calculation coz is is a very important factor.
I cant do anything with speed if the enemy cav rapes mine. This isnt a campaing map thing. If both sides would be players your fast cav would be pretty much worthless. And the arthaidian knights would take out the dunedain ones,so they are better.
Wow seeing this video has put a smile on my face. I'm very happy to see you doing your own top 10 video (and hopefully series) ironically your first episode is about top 10 cavalry, just as mine was :) Unfortunately I could not continue the series as stuff gets in the way, therefore I am grateful to see you continuing/starting the series! Keep doing more videos like this Galu they are a joy to watch! I would also like to take the opportunity and thank you for all the support you gave me when I used to do videos! Keep up the good work!
You guys had a gap between the Elderinwe Lancers on your respective lists. A difference in methodology or stat changes?
"They look the best on the list, they come from the best nation, they're objectively the best, but unfortunately they aren't really. They only come second." Never change.
Can't wait for more videos like this!
"Rise of Gundabad" as the next patch name! Also neat video Galu. Love to see more of this concept!
Top 10 Settlements next! Wealth plus how easy it is to defend.
Yesh!
basically all the major dwarf castles with insane mining hahaha
Top 1 is probably Khazad Dum east with dwarves.
@@lordcorax6918taste my grapeshot xd
Liking the thumbnail. (and the disclaimer at the end)
As a Imladris fan I am very pleased with this list.
Great video, I loved the way you went about determining the best units, not just by looking at their stats, which is how I imagine the other lists of this nature were compiled. I also appreciate that you managed to stay, mostly, objective throughout, ranking the units as they should be, as opposed to how you would have wanted them to be (*cough* knights of the silver swan,*cough*). Obviously I would have liked the Arthedain Royals to have placed higher, as I love the Northern Dunedain as a faction in DaC & I love the story of Arnor in the lore, & the Arthedain Royal Guard look really good in their old Arnorian plate. So yeah, im also disappointed that my favorite unit wasnt the best, but im glad you kept it professional, as much as I know it pained you to name the Knights of the Silver Swan anything but 1st. Great video Galu, as all your videos are.
It's odd how I have never played DaC and yet watch even videos like this. I love the new video style and can't wait for more videos like this.
I'm also so glad that you found a hobby like UA-cam, that can offer you a platform to entertain so many, keep up the good work!
You should play it it's tons of fun.
The Rohan have his elite unit at the 8 place.... damn for a specialized cavalry nation thats hurt.
This was a really great change to the video line up you have Galu. I was actually shocked that some of the heavier kataphract units did not perform as well as expected. I will add that numbers 1, 2 and 5 of this listing win for unit design.
Their advantage is availability and cost. You can easily field 2-3x as much heavy cav in the campaign as Rhun than as many of these other factions.
Considering that cavalry's main job is to hammer and anvil enemy infantry, at least for the elite cavalry that is, the lighter ones are designed to chase archers/routing units, how these cavalry units perform against each other isn't really a good metric. Especially since some cavalry units have bonuses against cavalry while others don't. If this was their main role than sure this should be very significant, but since it isn't I feel it skewed the results in favor of an attribute that is rarely relevant.
With Rohans royal bodyguard being so mediocre, could you perhaps consider making them a custom bodyguard for Theoden (or another important Rohan character perhaps)? Considering the normal Rohan bodyguard is even worse...
Poor Rohan needs some love :c
Let's not forget there are over 100 cavalry units in DaC and the royal guard were in the top 10. They may not be the best individually but they are right up there. :-)
Also the Royal Guard are faster than at least 75% of the units on this list - it may even just be the Eldarinwe that are faster. That counts for a good deal on the battlefield and suits Rohan's extreme mobility excellently.
Glad to see unit comparisons for DaC. Reminded me of Pixelated Apollo’s top ten cavalry video in the base game a couple of years back. In first place were the Guild-based Teutonic Knights - not because their stats were particularly good, but because their 2nd attack was an armour-piercing mace, which beat out all of the competition. I imagine if the Tirith Aear Knights were given lances, they would have made it much farther.
On a second note, I’m glad to see the super-wargs take third. It’s not often you see lancer-class cavalry get some love (just because they’re high-maintenance cycle-charge units that require a lot of focus to handle well. Most players I’ve seen tend to treat their cavalry either as a mop-up crew for routing enemies or cataphract-class cavalry that are thrown in melee and can handle themselves for a little while.
Consequently, units in the base game like Demi Lancers, Gendarmes, and French Lancers don’t see much use outside of campaign throwaway units, but cavalry such as Feudal and Chivalric Knights, Broken Lances, and Chapter (Templar, Hospitaller, Santiago, Teutonic) Knights will be used in multiplayer as well as the campaign.
Looking forward to future videos like this one!
I think that it is save to say that if the Tirith Aer Knights were to be given lances they are the best cavalry in DaC :)
*_"I imagine if the Tirith Aear Knights were given lances, they would have made it much farther."_*
Not necessarily. I think the reason they won against all other cavalry is because of their AP but if they got lances they would lose their AP since lances don't have AP.
Glueless Rug Apologies. I meant that if they were given lances in addition to their present armament, then they would be much better in the listings.
The way Arachir structured this video (from what I understand), cavalry performance was based on two factors:
1.) Effectiveness versus spearmen (particularly on the charge). This is the ideal of lancer-class cavalry.
2.) Effectiveness versus other cavalry (on an “even” playing field with a focus on prolonged melee performance). This is the ideal of cataphract-class cavalry.
Because the TA Knights have maces with an AP stat, they perform extremely well in instance #2. This is mostly because the best cavalry in the mod are guaranteed to have heavy armor - now negated/halved by the mace. This effect is amplified by the fact that TA Knights are unique in that the only weapon they have is armor piercing. To my knowledge, no other cavalry in the mod have this particular combination of stats.
Adversely, because the TA Knights lack a lance primary attack to accompany a mace secondary, their charge is quite weak. This means they underperform in instance #1. Due to the near pike-like qualities of a cavalry lance in a charge, the absence of a lance renders the TA Knights both unable to perform effective morale shocks and severely handicapped when trying to dispose of enemy units swiftly.
They are, by nature, a long-lasting heavy cavalry unit that can fill the role of line infantry quite well, even against shock or heavy infantry. Were they to be given a lance in addition, they would be nigh unstoppable except by pikes and stakes. That was my implication.
Glueless Rug Though they should if you think about it, completely understand why they don;t though lol as fun as it would be to see units getting obliterated in a single charge more than they already do.
Loving the transitions 😆
I'd greatly like to see this for every unit I've always wondered which was the best cavalry and I too thought the knights of the silver swan was the best so that did come as a shock but of course elven units are the top dog in everything lol. Loved the video and I did like the little transitions between each unit, it was clean, crisp and seamless I guess you could say lol and was overall very well done so good on ya. Can't wait to see the next video on this if you do decide to do the next one and I definitely can't wait to see the next version of DAC I absolutely love DAC and glad to see its still getting regular updates thank you so much for that and have a wonderful day good sir. :)
I love this unbiased display by Galu. You know it killed him putting the elves above dol amroth.
I was playing dol guldur campaign the last few months. So proud to se my boys make the top 10.
I dont know if the eldarinwe lancers would lose much if you consider the campaign map in. Yes they are damn expensive bit so are most of these cav units in the list, yes they replenish rather slowly but so do most of these units in this list, but they are available everywhere and thats what most of these cav units lack because they are aor units.
spirit959ful however does take like 17 real life years to get your elven culture up to 75% or whatever the number is to recruit them!
@@PvtRainbow Im not to sure about that you usually have 20+ settlements before the be if you play as the high elves. And at least 12 of them should be at 80+ culture when you can recruit the eldarinwe units. Also every race has that culture "problem" with their elite units so thats not really a downside to one nation seperately since everyone has the same issue.
you can get around low replenishment but conquering lots of settlements.
Surprised that the Elder Pathfinders didn't make it. Their charge is insane.
I imagine their fragility (no shield, mediocre armour) would hold them back a bit. Their crazy speed would go some way to making up for it however.
you know they are not in this game right? as they are not lore accurate
The are, but in DaC they ride a horse.
@@amandafranks5108 More than half the units in DaC are not lore accurate.
Please do keep going with this series. It's definitely fun to see how the units from different nations with different combinations of attributes stack up, and also to see who can surprise their way onto a list.
I am curious, though, have you thought about how you'll define or split up certain unit types? Things like whether regular archers and crossbowmen will be in separate categories or the same one, or how many different infantry categories there will be (sword/board, spearmen, strike infantry, pikemen/halberdiers)?
Wow, i love it! Everything, thumbnail, the end, this series format, your Dol Amroth enthusiasm, excellent narration, everything! Keep it up Arachír Galu. :)
Very nice, really like this type of Video. Continue your good work
I've always known that Bolg's Champions are incredible. Love them and playing for OOMM as well. Remember how once Champions evaporated half of full banner Imladris army :)
Wow, imagine how good the Imladris riders (or something like that, Glorfindel's old unit) would have scored. They were like the lancers but on steroids.
True that. Absolutely beastly. Too bad they were scrapped from the game
I know you have been fiddling with this fof a while now, but perhaps you still wish some feedback. Once you get to Rohan's royal guard on #8, the music may be too loud compared to your speech on earbuds. Of course it may be taste though I figured that you may be interested in testing this. For me it was most obvious when you discussed the royal guard on 8 (4:30)
Also: I do think that for your interest, you could check the top 10 when charging into gondor swordsmen which I think may turn around some stuff such as the temple knights result. And of course armour piercing does a lot
Temple Knights do poorly on the charge because they don't have lances.
You really made effort on determining the best, good work!
I would very much enjoy more videos such as this! Great work!
"Top 10 Settlements next! Wealth plus how easy it is to defend."
x2 :)
Very entertaining please do more!
Good to watch with cup of tea
I have been dreaming about you doing something like this! Thank you!
Amazing as always - keep it up man - every time i watch a Video I just get the urge to play again
This is a great video idea, I can't wait to see it on other unit type.
As an idea, I am sure you have a spreadsheet with all the information you said during the video, maybe it would be interesting to have it on the screen at the end so we can have a global view of who beats who, who charge good, etc.
Maybe you could do some specific ranking like "What are the best units to take down trolls/balrgos/mumakil" or "what are the best unit to sustain an elite cavalry charge" or things like this.
All in all, great video!
Cool! I miss BigFellow's Top 10's, glad to see you're taking them on yourself now that he's stopped!
Anything you put out is gold. Keep it up !
Love the video! Love the way you tested the units.
This was so good. We need more of these videos
This is a great series idea!!!
*cries in whatever language the haradrim speak*
Well the serpent guard are comparatively garbage. Harads defence stats in general are quite low but if you take the campaign into account they might break into the top 10
They really have the best mid tier cav tho, and the most cost efficent.
Nice video, I would suggest maybe slowing the camera a bit as you show the troop because zipping past them was a little dizzying, thanks!
Yeah I agree in watching it back. :) Next time I will.
Loved this video, look foreward to more!
I will say that the Loke Innas Rim should get more credit, maybe not enough to change their ranking as #9, but enough for a shout out. I mean, on the charge they beat out everyone else on spearmen killed up until Bolg's Champions.
They're also like solid gold and that's always a plus.
I do agree that they're quite an amazing unit, but their advantage lies more in availability and costs. You can basically field 2 times as much heavy cavalry as any other nation on the list (Barring Khand) and from anywhere too
Really interesting and entertaining video Galu! Any chance you could do a top 10 Heavy Infantry next? I am also rather interested how infantry mass comes into play and what effect not having kill animations have (like dwarves and bree bodyguard).
Would love to see this for each unit class. Excited to see the dwarves dominatw the infantry!
Yessss, this is just what I was expecting!
A point about your methodology, if I may. You say at the start that it is impossible to quantify how much better a cavalry unit is when it is available in four locations compared to six. However, you don't need to quantify this measure, it is about relative ranking. So could it be potentially done by ranking the units based on the number of units that can be trained from fifty turns if the nation held 10 regions (including starting regions)? Tirith Aear Knights come from one location so it is simply how often they can be trained within those fifty turns, whilst Loke Innas Rim can be trained from far more locations and potentially more frequently (I don't know off the top of my head), thus putting them ahead of the Tirith Aear for a campaign availability factor?
Great vid. No Carn Dum Knights? Would have thought they could tank Gondor infantry.
No honorable mentions?! Galu you monster! I am somewhat surprised to not see knights of carn dum not appearing on the list. They are also AP and i figured would have trounced the warlords cataracts
Which faction sre they)
@@zaki6548 remnants of angmar
Well done, sir. The Elves on top once again. Perfect. Top five Horse Archers perhaps next time?
This was great! Proper experiments to reaolve the nagging about balance.
These videos are going to be very popular
These videos are great!! Keep doing them
I though that warlords Kataphracts would be somewhere between top 7 and top 5 but whats how the game works every unit has its own weakness by the way i really liked this video keep up the great work
They get some bonus points for their pretty good speed and being available everywhere, but there are still better units in a one on one fight. They'll more than get the job done however.
Great video! While the winner did not come as a surprise, it is a bit sad to see, that the pointy ears boyz got this one. Always had mixed feelings about heavy armored for elves, esp. about heavy cav. Happy for the warg riders though - GO GOBLINS! :)
The Noldor crafted and wore extremely high quality armour, second only to the Dwarves, so yes that's to be expected.
This is elven propaganda
*fake news*
great video my man!
Liked the video, I’d even like to see it with lesser cav...been using the Lorien Lancers recently and although they die quite readily their charges seem ridiculously good for a non-elite unit
Would love to see more of these. Nay, I demand more of these.
I think a lot of the confusion of how effective a unit it is comes from their application in battle, people generally don't charge them headlong into a solid spear unit, so people's opinions will be skewed if they'll always flanking and/or charging heavy and light infantry.
He probably did thaat because almost all of these cav units destroy light and heavy infantry in 1 charge so you cant compare them perfectly. If you take a spear unit that doesnt die in a single charge you can.
Cracking video my dude 🙏
Good to see Bolgs Boys up there, one can do wonders with them in the campain
Looking forward to archers, attack infanty, spearman, lancers etc
Top 5 spots all elven units in archery maybe more 😂
Heh at least the top 7, then I bet you're going to have Steelbowmen and Hearth Guard just behind.
Wargs in general are terrifying on the charge. I've seen them obliterate high-tier archer units with a handful of charges.
It would be cool to also have top 10 worst it's always fun to hear units being torn apart
I just wanted to say something unrelated to the topic, but in my last campaign, boromir actually routed in countless battles even tho his morale is locked.
Can we also have a top 10 shock infantry, top 10 pikes and top 10 spears too? Maybe top 10 "monsters" (trolls, troll-men, mumakil, Great Beasts, Ents, Barrow-Wights, Castellans, possibly Wargs etc.)
LOVED IT BRO
This is pretty amazing.
Awesome, Would love to See Top 10 Halberd Units next Although i think Rhun Bodyguards or Barding Hird would take top spot.
Heh. I'm not sure there even are 10 halberd units.
@@feelingpine9123 With almost two and a half dozen factions, most of which have around three dozen unit types?
There are very few halberd units, yes
It would be close to 10 yeah, Rhun has 3,gondor 1,Mordor1,Dwarves have 2,Dorwinion 1,Dale 1,Mirkwood orcs have 1. thats 10 might be 1 or more i missed.
Wow very good video, love to see more. Question: concluding that the cavalry-orientated factions (Rohan, Khand) aren't realy in the top tier of the list, are they going to be 'rebalanced' so that they are. In my opninion a cavalry-rorienteted faction should be in the top of the cavalry-list. I you think otherwise, id love to hear why.
No because this was literally just which UNIT was the best. Rohan's roster is over 50% cavalry they have AP cavalry, lance cavalry, melee cavalry, cavalry archers and cavalry BG. They are completely a cavalry faction. They are not however a heavy knight faction like Dol Amroth ergo they don't have the best single UNIT but they are the best overall cavalry nation. Khand is a cavalry archer nation and they have amazing cavalry archers, they are not a heavy knight faction et cetera....
I thank you for the answer, it cleared the matter up perfectly. Btw...i've been playing and enjoying DaC for a couple of years now and i'm enjoying your videos weekly for, again, a couple of years now...keep up the amazing work! Cheers and have a great weekend, from a fellow Tolkien-enthousiast who has never reacted to one of your videos before (or any other video for that matter) ^^
Army of the Dead ? , Thanks great short video.
Charge only on Gondor spearman without upgrades
10-Khamul Shadowknights
9-Tirith Aear Knights
8-Temple Knights
7-Azog Defilers
6-Knights of the Silver Swan
5-Royal Guard
4-Warlord Katapracht
3-Arthetdain Royal Guard
2-Elderinwe Roque
1-Loke Innas-Rim
4,5 and 6 place are tight at 14%
I would suggest doing the tests in a MP game, so you can make sure the units are doing what you want them to. You get to control the units properly.
I really want to see top 10 archers, as I love archer-focused nations
It'd be elves all the way lol. You'd have to exclude elves all together in order to make an interesting vid
Were you including general's bodyguards in this also? If you do this for archers it would be interesting to see if the armor piercing of the ND bodyguard makes up for having lesser numbers than the steel-bowmen.
intresting yeah, to test this properly one would have to use many targets with increasing armour value. there has to be one point where the AP outweights the higher amount of arrows.
my guess would be an armour stat of like 16-18. you just inspired me to test this out myself in the evening :)
the cav bodyguards are low in number so they definitely can't fight an elite cav unit with 40-60 riders ;)
The top mercenary unit would be also entertaining. Could give a direction to focus on as any nation needing a little more umph in their roster.
Sons of the Fallen.
Top 10 anime betrayals when?
I did this kind of thing by myself for infantry, and the smiths of eregion won every time. However, if you were counting the campaign aspect of the unit I doubt it would even be in the top 10 due to how rare it is.
I say unfantr is meaningless without looking at categories and their intended porpouse separately.
I need no channel youtube! Sorry, I miss used the word "infantry", I only tested units within the sword, mace, axes and halberd unit type. But regardless, the smiths win against every other unit, no matter what type or purpose.
+TheLastCasualty What I would like to see tested is if pikes are truly as monstrous as claimed.
I need no channel youtube! simple answer, no. and it depends on so many variables that it would be really hard to test properly. I mean, sometimes when in formation, half the unit faces the wrong direction for whatever reason.
Imo, pikes are only good vs lightly armoured infantry (any target they can kill quickly basically). that's why a crazy push (by click spamming or using shield wall) into a pike formation can be beneficial if the pike unit lacks the attack to kill your units fast enough.
+Jamaly - Divider and Conqueror It can easily.be tested by seeng the casualties taken by a pike unit defending a set chokepoint against a given unit, and a spear unit with the exact same stats doing the same, and looking at the time they hold and the casualities they inflict.
Big_Fellow1 should approve this video ;)
How long did it take you to make this? Btw amazing video
Too long. :P
Love this! Top 10 Mercenary Units?
I like this type of video, especially with the extensive testing. I assume you didn't include missle cavalry in this list and the testing, as they perform a different task. Did you test the cavalry bodyguards as part of this test?
I didn't include missile cavalry exactly for that reason, they are their own beast. BG sadly don't have enough men per battalion to make a list like this. They get trounced by these superior sized and quality units.
Thanks for the clarifications. The low number in the bodyguards make sense, as they are normally just a slightly improved Cavalry unit.
I love this mod, and I adore your videos. Could you please though tell me how do you have your UI designed the way you do? That doesn't come on screen unless you move your mouse around their area?
Great video Galu. Looks should have factored in to give the swan knights the edge. Jk
Ethan Nowaski Ha! If looks were the judge, the Arthedain Royal Guard would have just won outright:-)
Gorlaran Oronra Lol! just no. Even the Eldarinwë and Loke-Innas Rim looks better than Arthedain.
Excuse me...Beorning Riders.
Glueless Rug, Eldarinwe got nothing on Arthedain Royal guard, swan knights close call.
Tyler Ellis Only on your dreams, of course. Fact is ND is quite overrated and other than their white armored units the iron armored ones(like the Royal Guards) looks average(at best) compared to other nations's elites.
After watching this video I see there there are clearly some problems that need to be worked out. I enjoy playing as Rhûn, but I can't understand how it is that a cavalry with such a high mass stat is so weak, especially for an elite unit. I feel like many of the Elite tier cavalry are in need of some reworking just due to the intended purpose behind the units vs their in game stats.
Campaign factors aren't taken into account here. If they were the innas rim would be way higher up the list.
More videos like this please !
Do more of these! :D
what was the battle map that the start and end battle was on?
Amon Hen. :) It is rarely ever seen in game so I thought I'd give it some love.
Top marks. Just one question: When's the next one?
Hopefully next week. I have done about 50% of what I need to and I hope to nail the rest this weekend. :)
i see this as a problem, ¿cavalry faction don't get the best cavalry? :/
would be interesting to know how many times you repeated the charge test. not surprised that bolg champs did the best though, even the normal wargs have a devastating charge already.
Size 62.5? There’s sixty two wargs and half of a warg?
Maybe they ran out of wargs and it's a goblin on foot.
Maybe top ten ranger units could be next?
Has the Royal Guard horse been fixed?
Please do a test and see which faction has the best Faction Leader bodyguards.
Excellent!
It's surprising to see Rohan coming in so low, considering that they are a horse people, which, one would think, means they live in the saddle by age 5 like the Mongols and HUn
Like Khand. Both the factions which focus on cavalry ended up relatively low on the list. I have speculated earlier that that is because Khand seem very much a skirmisher / hit-and-run type of cavalry nation. They have the others beat when it comes to speed and if they do not they really ought to have the best horsearchers in the game.
Rohan, on the other hand, is more focused on the charge. But they, somewhat like Khand, don't get the same quality of armour nations like Gondor and Imladris do. Therefore, while good, they don't fare well in one-on-ones with the heavier cavalry. I will argue that their units ought to have relatively high offensive stats for their price. And possibly improve their spear units so as to have a better shot at withstanding the cataphracts of the D&C world. As they don't get pikes.
Rohan is more like mass amount of cavalry readily available, but not the elite cavalry. They have a lot of variety of cavalry in all tiers, so you normally have cavalry superiority and if you use the different types of cavalry correctly they have an overwhelming effect. For example you have Skirmiser, Missle, lancers, ap high tier cavalry. With that you can beat almost all units. To fill the ranks you always have pleantiful of Rohan riders and maybe even some scouts that mop up, so your more valuable units can do a more important task. As you can see most Rohan high tier cavalry are more specialized than the cavalry seen on the list.
Correct, what defines Rohan and Khand isn't the stats of their units in, say, a one on one duel but the sheer volume and variety of cavalry they can field. No other factions can even come close to fielding as much cavalry as these two even if the individual units might not be THE best in the game. You know if you come up against these two as enemies you're going to have hordes of horsemen dashing left and right all over the battle map more so than any others.
And overwhealming number of cavalry units has not a direct counter, as the mobility of the units and their charges are hard to defend against. Archers protected by infantry can lure the cavalry to attacks sooner that the enemy wants to.
only charge? speed and staying power are also important
Very surprised to see the Defilers take 3rd!
Nice video i liket it but you need to take in to acount the speed to.
The speed is very important coz the main use of the cavalry flanking.
For example:
The northen dunadeins the main 2 heavy cavalry are the Arthedain royal and the dunadein heavy cav.
I found in my experience that the dunadain heavy cav is better than the arthedain royal 90% of the time. they can flank faster, can charge faster can chase unit down faster.
So you need to take speed in to calculation coz is is a very important factor.
I cant do anything with speed if the enemy cav rapes mine. This isnt a campaing map thing. If both sides would be players your fast cav would be pretty much worthless. And the arthaidian knights would take out the dunedain ones,so they are better.
Should we expect the Knights of the Silver Swan to get a buff in the next release? ;)
Hell yes!