Shadows flicker like flame is my favorite spirit. When I first got spirit island I did not know that he was a weaker spirit and simply assumed that he was difficult. I played him over and over again to understand how to win with him consistently, and the time spent playing and mastering him made me love him. I totally agree with your assessment though, he is incredibly weak. I'm glad they've breathed new life into him with the new NI aspect.
Fantastic video. I really like how slowly you go through each spot in your explanation. It’s great to see a breakdown of the aspects. Like you perfectly outlined how sunshine spirit just breaks the spirit and makes it unable to properly function. It’s so strange that the Sunshine innate is not even balanced around poor card plays. You still need 2, 3, and then 4 card plays for each tier of its innate. That definitely should’ve been easier to hit. It is great that Earth and Shadow at least have aspects that make them a bit more playable for people who are fans of those spirits.
These "Final" Tier Lists are definitely my favourite videos of yours so far! I feel like in these ones you are giving much more detail about the biggest weaknesses of each Spirit.
Yes! I'm so happy for this. I've seen your board posts for a couple years, and the rundown on each spirit is what I was hoping for. Can't wait for the rest.
In my experience from "true solo" plays, I would have to take base Earth straight out of the F tier and put it into my own special "Trash Can" tier. At least with Shadows I can yolo fear sprint, but Earth doesn't really do anything against any of the level 6 adversaries so it mostly just loses slowly and painfully. I do think it has slightly better combo potential with teams in multispirit games so putting it a bit higher here seems to make sense :) Though I have given up on the spirit for a long time now, so theoretically there could be some potential that I'm just not willing to see :)
Re: your point about how tier list != fun… If your favorite spirit is low on the tier list, then it's basically just playing at a different difficulty level. That's fine! Feel more proud that you can win consistently (:
I was pretty sure about most of these being here, wasn't 100% whether or not Earth would be seen here or the tier above (purely due to the repeat having combo potential) but I'm not surprised on where it goes. Excited to see the tiers fill out!
im thinking his repeat ability dont usually happen, especially in high level adversary. Earth is better using non threshold major, than playing just to hit his innate.
@@jaydeestrong Yeah in general it's pretty bad and hard to use, I was thinking that it does see use in some very high level combos... but tbh that's actually more likely the might aspect so never mind haha
Awesome, been looking forward to this list for ages! Great first entry, can't wait for the rest. Im *really* surprised to see amorphous as your weakest Shadows, especially below Reach. Amorphous gives an experienced player so much flexibility with targeting and presence management - far more than Reach can (except for placing a presence anywhere during growth). You can constantly break/move your sacred sites around, greatly improving your innate, whilst retaining the improved usage of your other range 0 uniques.
As the personification of Vengenace.... I take personal offense to your choice to include 'how much blight does the spirit take' in the tier list and perceive it as such to be a classist ad-hominem attack towards the particular spirit. Further, from the vengeance perspective, taking more than two blight, instead of being seen as a 'negative,' should instead be viewed as a 'positive.' All spirits in all spirit island games should seek to accept the maximum amount of blight(s) possible on land(s) as allowed by the island card(s). No but more seriously happy this is released and looking forward to the rest.
Great list! Would you ever consider doing a video or posting a list of recommended “fixes” for Spirits in F and D tier? I feel like C and above are ok, but for low powered Spirits do you have any thoughts on simple fixes? I am aware in most cases the aspects are trying to achieve this, but it’s a real shame to think that around 15-20% of the Spirits (including aspects) are an active hindrance on the team. When I say fixes, I’m thinking super simple things that won’t involve adding new components, things like starting with X energy, an auto-proliferation on one of the tracks (or start with it destroyed if that would mess up balance having extra presence on the board), even adding or swapping out a minor power maybe (e.g. sunshine just needs an extra card!) I know some folk are going to say use aspects or just to treat these spirits as “hard mode” but for me I’d like to know the base level of any Spirit is somewhere in C tier, where yes they might have more niche uses but can still be an active part of the team rather than being carried. Just a thought! Keep up the great work
Great video. Sucks that some spirits and their thematic aspects miss the mark. Maybe giving them certain homebrewed additional effects would bump them up a tier or so but I'm not exactly sure what without them being blatantly overpowered
The majority of lower tier spirits are also low complexity, so it's a difficult tightrope to walk. "Do one simple thing that wins games at low difficulties but can't keep up at high difficulties" is not really a design concept that works if you buff it, because if you had a "do one simple thing that wins games at high difficulties" spirit, why learn a "do many complex things that win games at high difficulties if you know exactly when and how to use them well" spirit? It's probably a lesser evil to have spirits you just sort of outgrow as you progress to higher difficulties than to have something like Shadows be powerful enough for its one-dimensional "generate fear, then generate more fear, then generate even more fear" gameplan to give the same results with 1% of the mental effort of something like Fractured.
I couldn't find any posts by you on the Discord about this, but I would love to see a few videos about how you would buff each one of these F and D-tier spirits, and perhaps which nerfs you would give to S-tier ones (whichever they may turn out to be). Something in the vein of those videos explaining the reasoning and goal behind your house rules, and how you'd buff some of the F-tier Power Cards. For example, adding +1 Energy to Shadows's top track, as per Eric's Exploratory version, just to fix the anti-synergy between its Energy Gain and its Aspect-less Special Rule.
It’s spirit island! A fantastic board game about defending the island from the invaders! You play as a powerful spirit and this list is ranking the different spirits you can play as!
Initial comment (more to watch later): Ranking Sunshine River so low is kind of interesting. I feel like Sunshine may be the aspect that causes the biggest nerf to the spirit, but I'm not sure that Sunshine River is _net_ a worse spirit than, say, base Shadows. But maybe you're considering aspects more based on their delta to the base spirit than where the spirit lands. [summary of my view of Sunshine: It's sort of in the Immense Lightning wheelhouse, except maybe it's making another spirit Immense if that's situationally more advantageous; maybe it's too card-dependent and I've just had relatively lucky games with it.]
How I view River is that, the best part about it is Boon of Vigor and ability to easily hit your powerful innate. Sunshine gets rid of both! And since River doesn't get any fear, I think the spirit is a bigger detriment to the team than Shadows.
2 energy per turn to the team is akin to having two top-tier minor powers, so it seems like a strong contribution to me. But my playstyle favors playing into the strengths of other spirits more than most I think. [I also don't reclaim loop with River, so maybe if that's standard play I'm not valuing boon of vigor enough]
Final take on Sunshine: It was the first attempt at "If the spirits has a unique power so strong that you're tempted to reclaim loop it as a strat (the most boring way to play Spirit Island), then there should be an aspect that removes that card" and they didn't realize it should be "replaces that card." For aspects, I think your reaction: "the best part about it is Boon of Vigor and ability to easily hit your powerful innate. Sunshine gets rid of both!" is only valid because the execution was poor. I think some aspects should _definitely_ replace the OP elements of a spirit with some interesting alternative. For me, Sunshine is exciting because it, in principle, makes a bunch of strong Sun-but-no-Water powers accessible to River. But I agree that Sunshine's early game feels real, real bad.
i laughed at "Hey im gonna prove this guy wrong" line. Oh god, I hope my fave Downpour can at least be in Class A hahahaha I also wonder where my other new favorite, Dog God of Dahan, Hearth Virgil gonna land.
While you did say that the list doesn’t correlate to fun factor, I do tend to find the ones down in F tier very boring to play since they are so bad that in games with a real challenge you have no flexibility with them, assuming they can even win at all with the ordering of invader and event cards.
What an interesting video! I love your pace, so many youtube videos in general are rushed. For shadows and earth: woukd a house rule that they can play a bonus presence in the first round boost them enough to enter discussion for d or even c tier?
Oh Shadows...even when you were all we had....we knew.....we knew.....XD Cant wait to see that A/X tier video! My beloved Starlight and Fractured surely MUST be in that video! If not....I can always claim you mislabeled the video they are in :P Good stuff
I actually like base Earth but yeah the rituals draw spam gets repetitive so I do the major T1/T2 strat and try to make it work. I keep rituals draw and year as the 3 cards I play when I want to delay reclaim after playing my major and its 2 cards.
Is that why you call it friends tier?? I really like that, actually. I have friends I occasionally play with who are happy to play difficulty 1 and 2 forever and I've gotten a little bored. Maybe it's time to play the worst spirits in the game so I have to actually think about what I'm doing.
Have you ever tested replacing Boon of Vigor with another card for Sunshine River? I'm curious if there's a minor card that could be used similar to NI aspects that would make Sunshine not quite as bad. Any ideas of which card that could be?
No, but it's something we discussed before we began playtesting NI. For me, Uncanny Melting seems like the most fair card to give, but you could look at any Sun + Water card, any Water card, or any Sun card as a means of replacement. I like Uncanny because it gives the spirit a bit of fear, some blight healing, but doesn't push the spirit over the top. Like healing blight is nice, but not gamebreaking. Giving the spirit a card like one of the below, or even Like calls Like, might be too much. Cards like Elusive Ambushes, Encompassing Ward, or Twilight Fog are likely too strong for the spirit!
I would think than any Sun + Water card would make the aspect a buff that river doesn't need. I'd favor either treating boon of vigor as blank or a Sun-only minor to lean into Sunshine: Enticing Splendor might be nice?
Shadows flicker like flame is my favorite spirit. When I first got spirit island I did not know that he was a weaker spirit and simply assumed that he was difficult. I played him over and over again to understand how to win with him consistently, and the time spent playing and mastering him made me love him. I totally agree with your assessment though, he is incredibly weak. I'm glad they've breathed new life into him with the new NI aspect.
Super excited for the rest of this series! My girlfriend and I just bought JE and have been having a blast, planning to get NI soon!
Fantastic video. I really like how slowly you go through each spot in your explanation. It’s great to see a breakdown of the aspects. Like you perfectly outlined how sunshine spirit just breaks the spirit and makes it unable to properly function. It’s so strange that the Sunshine innate is not even balanced around poor card plays. You still need 2, 3, and then 4 card plays for each tier of its innate. That definitely should’ve been easier to hit.
It is great that Earth and Shadow at least have aspects that make them a bit more playable for people who are fans of those spirits.
These "Final" Tier Lists are definitely my favourite videos of yours so far!
I feel like in these ones you are giving much more detail about the biggest weaknesses of each Spirit.
Yes! I'm so happy for this. I've seen your board posts for a couple years, and the rundown on each spirit is what I was hoping for. Can't wait for the rest.
In my experience from "true solo" plays, I would have to take base Earth straight out of the F tier and put it into my own special "Trash Can" tier. At least with Shadows I can yolo fear sprint, but Earth doesn't really do anything against any of the level 6 adversaries so it mostly just loses slowly and painfully. I do think it has slightly better combo potential with teams in multispirit games so putting it a bit higher here seems to make sense :)
Though I have given up on the spirit for a long time now, so theoretically there could be some potential that I'm just not willing to see :)
Dang I really enjoy the earth spirit but I am usually playing with at least one other person so we can help each other out.
Re: your point about how tier list != fun…
If your favorite spirit is low on the tier list, then it's basically just playing at a different difficulty level. That's fine! Feel more proud that you can win consistently (:
I was pretty sure about most of these being here, wasn't 100% whether or not Earth would be seen here or the tier above (purely due to the repeat having combo potential) but I'm not surprised on where it goes.
Excited to see the tiers fill out!
im thinking his repeat ability dont usually happen, especially in high level adversary.
Earth is better using non threshold major, than playing just to hit his innate.
@@jaydeestrong Yeah in general it's pretty bad and hard to use, I was thinking that it does see use in some very high level combos... but tbh that's actually more likely the might aspect so never mind haha
Awesome, been looking forward to this list for ages! Great first entry, can't wait for the rest.
Im *really* surprised to see amorphous as your weakest Shadows, especially below Reach.
Amorphous gives an experienced player so much flexibility with targeting and presence management - far more than Reach can (except for placing a presence anywhere during growth). You can constantly break/move your sacred sites around, greatly improving your innate, whilst retaining the improved usage of your other range 0 uniques.
Can't wait to see your oppinion on Darkfire Shadows
As the personification of Vengenace.... I take personal offense to your choice to include 'how much blight does the spirit take' in the tier list and perceive it as such to be a classist ad-hominem attack towards the particular spirit. Further, from the vengeance perspective, taking more than two blight, instead of being seen as a 'negative,' should instead be viewed as a 'positive.' All spirits in all spirit island games should seek to accept the maximum amount of blight(s) possible on land(s) as allowed by the island card(s).
No but more seriously happy this is released and looking forward to the rest.
Great list! Would you ever consider doing a video or posting a list of recommended “fixes” for Spirits in F and D tier? I feel like C and above are ok, but for low powered Spirits do you have any thoughts on simple fixes? I am aware in most cases the aspects are trying to achieve this, but it’s a real shame to think that around 15-20% of the Spirits (including aspects) are an active hindrance on the team.
When I say fixes, I’m thinking super simple things that won’t involve adding new components, things like starting with X energy, an auto-proliferation on one of the tracks (or start with it destroyed if that would mess up balance having extra presence on the board), even adding or swapping out a minor power maybe (e.g. sunshine just needs an extra card!)
I know some folk are going to say use aspects or just to treat these spirits as “hard mode” but for me I’d like to know the base level of any Spirit is somewhere in C tier, where yes they might have more niche uses but can still be an active part of the team rather than being carried.
Just a thought! Keep up the great work
Great video. Sucks that some spirits and their thematic aspects miss the mark. Maybe giving them certain homebrewed additional effects would bump them up a tier or so but I'm not exactly sure what without them being blatantly overpowered
The majority of lower tier spirits are also low complexity, so it's a difficult tightrope to walk. "Do one simple thing that wins games at low difficulties but can't keep up at high difficulties" is not really a design concept that works if you buff it, because if you had a "do one simple thing that wins games at high difficulties" spirit, why learn a "do many complex things that win games at high difficulties if you know exactly when and how to use them well" spirit? It's probably a lesser evil to have spirits you just sort of outgrow as you progress to higher difficulties than to have something like Shadows be powerful enough for its one-dimensional "generate fear, then generate more fear, then generate even more fear" gameplan to give the same results with 1% of the mental effort of something like Fractured.
I couldn't find any posts by you on the Discord about this, but I would love to see a few videos about how you would buff each one of these F and D-tier spirits, and perhaps which nerfs you would give to S-tier ones (whichever they may turn out to be).
Something in the vein of those videos explaining the reasoning and goal behind your house rules, and how you'd buff some of the F-tier Power Cards.
For example, adding +1 Energy to Shadows's top track, as per Eric's Exploratory version, just to fix the anti-synergy between its Energy Gain and its Aspect-less Special Rule.
Another great video! Learned a lot from all of your content and I'm really curious to see the rest of this list.
Excellently communicated! Thank you for the content and o love the disclaimer
why is this in my recommended? no clue what this is. Why did I watch it all?
It’s spirit island! A fantastic board game about defending the island from the invaders! You play as a powerful spirit and this list is ranking the different spirits you can play as!
11:00 River (Sunshine Aspect)
14:35 Shadow
18:37 Earth
21:07 Earth (Resilience Aspect)
21:51 Shadow (Amorphous Aspect)
22:37 Shadow (Reach Aspect)
Initial comment (more to watch later): Ranking Sunshine River so low is kind of interesting. I feel like Sunshine may be the aspect that causes the biggest nerf to the spirit, but I'm not sure that Sunshine River is _net_ a worse spirit than, say, base Shadows. But maybe you're considering aspects more based on their delta to the base spirit than where the spirit lands.
[summary of my view of Sunshine: It's sort of in the Immense Lightning wheelhouse, except maybe it's making another spirit Immense if that's situationally more advantageous; maybe it's too card-dependent and I've just had relatively lucky games with it.]
How I view River is that, the best part about it is Boon of Vigor and ability to easily hit your powerful innate.
Sunshine gets rid of both! And since River doesn't get any fear, I think the spirit is a bigger detriment to the team than Shadows.
2 energy per turn to the team is akin to having two top-tier minor powers, so it seems like a strong contribution to me. But my playstyle favors playing into the strengths of other spirits more than most I think. [I also don't reclaim loop with River, so maybe if that's standard play I'm not valuing boon of vigor enough]
Final take on Sunshine: It was the first attempt at "If the spirits has a unique power so strong that you're tempted to reclaim loop it as a strat (the most boring way to play Spirit Island), then there should be an aspect that removes that card" and they didn't realize it should be "replaces that card."
For aspects, I think your reaction: "the best part about it is Boon of Vigor and ability to easily hit your powerful innate. Sunshine gets rid of both!" is only valid because the execution was poor. I think some aspects should _definitely_ replace the OP elements of a spirit with some interesting alternative. For me, Sunshine is exciting because it, in principle, makes a bunch of strong Sun-but-no-Water powers accessible to River. But I agree that Sunshine's early game feels real, real bad.
i laughed at "Hey im gonna prove this guy wrong" line.
Oh god, I hope my fave Downpour can at least be in Class A hahahaha
I also wonder where my other new favorite, Dog God of Dahan, Hearth Virgil gonna land.
Let’s gooo!
I might have missed it but why is this called your “final” list? Not planning on any updates until there are new spirits?
Going back to yearly lists and I explain it in the last video! Looks like I forgot to mention it here!
While you did say that the list doesn’t correlate to fun factor, I do tend to find the ones down in F tier very boring to play since they are so bad that in games with a real challenge you have no flexibility with them, assuming they can even win at all with the ordering of invader and event cards.
I'm so excited for this videos
What an interesting video! I love your pace, so many youtube videos in general are rushed. For shadows and earth: woukd a house rule that they can play a bonus presence in the first round boost them enough to enter discussion for d or even c tier?
Now i want to play some level 6 adversaries with those last 3...
Oh Shadows...even when you were all we had....we knew.....we knew.....XD
Cant wait to see that A/X tier video! My beloved Starlight and Fractured surely MUST be in that video! If not....I can always claim you mislabeled the video they are in :P
Good stuff
Fractured is definitely x. It's arguably the best spirit in the game. Starlight, I dunno, but it shouldn't be lower than a.
Looking forward to this… I have been for months!
Here we go
The hype is real! ❤
- Can the spirit create isolation pockets?
- Mentions other spirits over Finder.
RR still hates Finder. :(
I actually like base Earth but yeah the rituals draw spam gets repetitive so I do the major T1/T2 strat and try to make it work. I keep rituals draw and year as the 3 cards I play when I want to delay reclaim after playing my major and its 2 cards.
Wooo!!!
Is that why you call it friends tier?? I really like that, actually. I have friends I occasionally play with who are happy to play difficulty 1 and 2 forever and I've gotten a little bored. Maybe it's time to play the worst spirits in the game so I have to actually think about what I'm doing.
How different would a true solo or 2 spirit tier list really look? Id assume itd be quite similar but any notable jumps you think would happen?
Too much to detail in one post. Somethings would chance others would not.
Could you share your tiermaker template please? It looks better than the ones I've found so far.
I will with the final video in a few days!
Have you ever tested replacing Boon of Vigor with another card for Sunshine River? I'm curious if there's a minor card that could be used similar to NI aspects that would make Sunshine not quite as bad. Any ideas of which card that could be?
No, but it's something we discussed before we began playtesting NI.
For me, Uncanny Melting seems like the most fair card to give, but you could look at any Sun + Water card, any Water card, or any Sun card as a means of replacement.
I like Uncanny because it gives the spirit a bit of fear, some blight healing, but doesn't push the spirit over the top. Like healing blight is nice, but not gamebreaking. Giving the spirit a card like one of the below, or even Like calls Like, might be too much.
Cards like Elusive Ambushes, Encompassing Ward, or Twilight Fog are likely too strong for the spirit!
I would think than any Sun + Water card would make the aspect a buff that river doesn't need. I'd favor either treating boon of vigor as blank or a Sun-only minor to lean into Sunshine: Enticing Splendor might be nice?
What about river if you dont use the aspect card?
That's in another video :)