Rolling your Ankles into the New Turn: Whats it all about 🤷♂️
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- Опубліковано 21 гру 2023
- Do you want to improve your carving?
Ski Dad TV is here to help!
How do I roll my ankles into the turn?
Here are Slow Motion Videos of Knee and Ankle Roll, showing proper ski technique
How do I carve with my knees and Ankles?
Simply roll them into the turn
The Knee and Ankle roll in skiing is a common move and should be mastered by every individual. Here is some ski coaching on how and why.
How to Carve Skiing Advanced
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Hi Joe, watching this video maybe 3-4 times and I think I got what you saying. Before I was a little confused about what exactly ankle rolling is. And I think I got it this time. So ankle rolling is then you apply gradual pressure at the top of the turn and when you pick up the speed that early edge change and pressure gets skipped to being light by using more ski pop which gives you the ability to change your edges in the air, so you don't use your energy, you just relax and change edges then you sort of aim your skis to the apex . As you land your legs act like spring and pressure mainly appears from
your mass so the time that you apply pressure becomes way sorter. Funny but as I get tired I start to ski this way more without understanding what's actually happening. Not in the the way that I completely don't have I clue but in the way it right way of skiing or bad. Great stuff, thanks for your videos again!
Love your attitude, top content
Just found this channel - just excellent! Thank you :)
Your best presentation😀
Thank you, very interesting aspect for me.
Thank you
As speed increases, and slope angle steepens, using only knee angulation is no longer enough to resist forces- you have to use separation and add hip angulation.
thanks❤
As you've noted in previous videos, the best World Cup and Olympic ski racers don't simply continue to roll their ankles through turns on steeps at high speed. They use a variety of moves in transition to generate or control speed (e.g. extension, leg pump, absorption, roll up, jump switch, feather, butter, stivot) with the goal of being strong from apex through clean completion of the turn. If the best in the world "feather" or "butter" at speed on steeps to control speed and set up clean completions, then I agree with your point that it's not a reasonable expectation for recreational skiers to continue to "roll their ankles" as their only technique when speed and pitch increases. So I believe your suggestion is to practice rolling ankles, but also practice jump switch, feather, butter, etc. to be able to adapt to terrain and still have clean completions as it gets steeper.
Yes! You boil it down perfectly
In racing, Stivot turns are used for direction change to maintain a high line, not to control speed. Turns on the steeps are often set too tightly to blast through with a pure carve. A stivot at the top of the turn minimizes speed loss while gaining the required direction change. Here's Marco Odermatt demonstrating... ua-cam.com/video/ofusjB5fL2E/v-deo.html
I think all of the ski deviation moves (stivot, butter, feather) control speed. Sometimes that “control” is simply to keep you from speeding up. Not necessarily to slow down.
"Lead Change" and "Pop!" - that's some ol' school stuff right there!
Respect 😊
Old school is wrong. You should stivot, and control speed early in the turn, and them maintain proper technique from the fall line into the next turn.
@@shooter7a I can’t speak to where you went to school, that’s what you were doing back in the 80’s
“How many ski instructors does it take to change a lightbulb…”
Another great video no one "talks" about floating skis in the transition all the way to fall line. I mean everyone does it but good to see someone mention
Harb has for a long time. Joe will probably disagree, but I see a lot of what Harb teaches in his skiing. For example, Joe talks about coming up and over at the transition, IMO a carryover from up unweighting back in the days of 210cm straight skis. However, I don't see much of an up move as a shortening of the downhill leg which brings both legs to a flexed position, unweights the skis, creates the "float", moving to turning in the opposite direction.
Joe has opened my mind to using rotary at the top of the turn on steeper terrain. Personally, I see the next step in my skiing adding this idea. I am thinking marrying Harb"s and Joe's ideas as the answer.
great daddy.........greetings from chile
I have skied La Parva and Coralco some day I will post the Ski Dad visits Chile video!
So you went through the whole video and did not say what you would do on a steeper run.
Maybe he wanna show us in another video? :)
I lifted my feet, rotated the skis into the fall line, then pressured.
I have other videos explicitly discussing strategies and techniques on steeper terrain. Please take a look.
got it@@skidadTV . So you are saying you don't actually do a nice C-shape turn. If I understand correctly, lifting your feet and rotating the skis would create more like a half z in before the fall line, and perhaps a rounder half C shape in the second half of the turn?
The top of the turn does not need to be perfectly carved, by lifting the feet and rotating I get that part of the turn done faster and get to a strong position from apex to completion.
The turn shape looks more like a comma
I think it’s more like using the rebound force when you pick up the speed, it will “shoot” the feet across underneath your body. Think more like you retract your feet and edging on the other side, you don’t have to roll the ankles and they are already in place if this makes any sense. I believe you can still roll your ankles on steeper terrains if you are making big turns and the speed at transition is slower, so you have time. Check his edge angle around 2:32 , he retract the legs using the rebound and extend out, the feet are already there.
Awesome, and you nailed my flat to steep terrain issue. I to can rock Success, but I want to have the hard carve on the bottom of Big Stick! Middle of Solid Muldoon is easy to roll and carve, but I need the next level. Future video???? Keep them coming
Nice turns man.
Do you ever notice a difference (or think about the difference) between turns where you drive your inside hand in front of your inside hip…as opposed to when you let it drift and fall behind your inside hip? It’s mainly at the end of your turns.
I tend to purposely use my inside hand as a rudder and drive it into the snow which helps me keep that hand at (or in front of) my hip. I think it helps with keeping me in a stacked position and prevents shoulder rotation…I think.
I don’t think about my hands much. I like the flowy style of letting them swing
Your videos have helped me a lot, especially with directing my limited focus to the end of my turns (to think about finishing the J shape rather than the entire S), and I've found your instruction straightforward to understand and novel in its framing of advice/lessons both old and new.
In this video specifically, I want to ask about the lead change you mention at the end. Is this something you're mentioning as something we should aim for, or just pointing out as an indication of our ski/edge change? I'm curious since I've seen elsewhere that an inside ski tip lead should be minimized.
I point it out as something you do on the flats with a knee ankle roll. However on a pitch or with increased speed it should be minimized
Seems like many of the comments and questions are addressed in your earlier video "Base Skiing part 3"? If the goal is clean completions, then this video seems simple to understand. As pitch and speed increase, and it becomes more challenging to roll the ankles in the same way as you might on flats, then use any of the "exotic moves" you describe in Base Skiing Part 3 video to generate or control speed, as long as the technique used is before the apex of the turn (and the apex of the turn is above and outside the "gate", unless you're carrying speed from a steep onto a flat, in which case apex can be at or below the "gate"). So basically, as pitch and speed increase, use any of the moves in your bag of tricks to control speed so that apex is in the correct spot, allowing you to ride the lower part of the turn into a clean completion? Your explanation in this video seems very understandable and effective to me, in the context of the Base Skiing philosophy you describe in earlier videos. Thanks, the content is great!
Nailed it
On the flats, the body can do all the crossover forward move while feet and skis stay fully engaged with snow. On the steeps, the body crossover forward move happens AND the feet and skis displace laterally and redirect (steer) while not pressured. Full edge engagement and pressure begin around the fall line.
You nailed it @johnbarnhart7174
they are pressured reverse hip rotation
Man…I wish I lived near you. ……..what I would pay for some one-on-one coaching throughout the ski season. 🙂
Send me video and I’ll take a look
That is very nice skiing and explanation !
btw, I noticed some thing "strange" with your left hand and elbow : the hand going backward and elbow going upward...your right side is ok and you should copy it to be even :)
I had similar problem long time ago. For me, all was about the tonic/relax process and how to not tighten my periphical muscle (here shoulders)...
Thank you @magnificoas388
I do not worry about my arms, my core is strong and the arm movement is personal style. As long as it’s not effecting my feet and skis I will roll with it
I think most people would agree with what works on a green slope may not work 100% on a blue. I definately got a lot out of your other videos especially on the golden spiral... I had to re draw all of my ski notes....
Sorry but I am not able to see your change in what you are doing different as you move to steeper terrain. Less ankle roll and more what? Please explain! Thanks
Lift the feet and rotate skis into the turn
May I ask you beginner question. Are you actively putting pressure on the edges by pressing them down into snow with your feet, somewhat like doing pushing the floor down when you are getting up from the squat in the gym.
I am asking because my lines in the snow are never deep like I see in your videos.
To get the deeper trenches I am pushing outside towards the edges of the trail. This push is against the G Forces from the centripetal forces of the carving ski.
Are you saying, on flat, body across skis and on steep, skis under body?
Ski dad. Yes. Right but what to do on a steeper pitch?
Pivot, slide, stivot…. All my other videos talk about the more applicable techniques
So what do you think you’re doing when it gets steeper? I for one always roll, no matter how steep. It may not be critical to get you into the next turn when things get steeper and faster because the ski’s energy “throws” you into the next turn as soon as you release. However, your feet and ankles still need to roll to be in the correct position when your edges engage in the next turn. In a high energy slalom turn you may roll your feet and ankles while you’re in the air but roll your must.
Man, I love all these instructor types with their unsolicited critiques of your skiing... they might have more precise PSIA arm/wrist technique, but 99% sure as hell dont "SKI" better than you!
Otherwise known as "The Phantom Move" because we can't see the inside ski lift in real time. Slow motion camera work comes to the rescue. I have been explaining this to anybody who cares to listen since I first noticed a slow mow of Lindsey Vonn skiing Slalom at Levi in maybe 2012? Another excellent video Ski Dad, right on the money. One of the best exponents of "The Phantom Move" is the Japanese skier Miku Kuriyama, here what you see in real time is not real, as with several aspects of skiing, it's an illusion. Slow mow gives us the real insight. Enjoy: ua-cam.com/video/GbSXDx2QwOg/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Homie’s dead serious
Question: If there is no accentuated rolling and (as I would interprete) in result no early pressure on the new outside ski, how do you manage to get the pressure later in the turn? Do you built up a "landing-platform" in direction of the apex of the turn? Is it correct to think of trying to move to a "line" instead of concentrating on the transition - as you explained in the video "Keep your feet underneath you"...??? Looking forward to your answer 😉
I simply push to the outside of the trail. By remaining balanced the load on the outside ski increases as I come across the hill due to the increase in resistance to gravity
@@skidadTV Thank you! Hope, you enjoy/enjoyed your trip to the alps 👍😉
Ankle roll on flater or slower. What technique takes over on steeper / faster?
I believe it’s a secret
same comment. It would be great if you could tell us what you do on the steeps after you abandon the ankle roll
Guys all my other videos are about the steeps, take a look
@@raulradovitzky8181 elite skiers stivot.
Lift & tilt
Yup
Only blue runs I can roll in good carvs with that technique but when things get steeper my speed control staying in a carv goes to poop. Don’t mind going fast but in a course I would suffer.
That is where feathering comes into play
If "there is no forward movement into the turn" why are the tail of your skis raised from the ground? And why you show a strong forward movement in every turn?
Using the word you are defining in the definition is a fallacy, just like the forward “move” into the turn…
@@skidadTV ok so how do you define the forward move you do in order to raise the tail of the skis?
I’m lifting my heels under stable hips. More flexibility of the knee.
Like a tuck jump, the hip can stay stable while the feet get closer to your COM
@LoSkiBum my hips are static in the for aft plane through transition. That is my statement
what’s the slalom ski length?
165
It looks like youre shuffling more on the steeps. I wonder if you shuffled less, you would be quicker to roll ur ankles on steeper terrain
If i am not Rolling my Ankles into the New Turn, Then what am i doing? catching air?
Catching air in a controlled manner…
A simple lift of the feet, maybe a tail feather, butter or Stivot
good vid, dude. solid ski advice. recommendation: turn the music down a little to match the same volume level as your voice would make it a better vid) :) thanks & keep 'em coming
I agree, thank you for the feedback!
So…awesome skiing but…who built that stairway?😂😂😂
You talk about "deviation" at the steeper places but for me it is not visible. Deviation for me means that the skis run into different directions, but your skis do not do this. What I can is than you press down the tip of the new inside ski and this lifts up the tale of it, which is a very good thing to do, especially if you pull back this ski simultaneously, which I think you probably do, only you just do not tell us about it. The goal is to not let the new inside ski get too much of a ski-lead too early int the new turn and also to not let the two skis deviate. Am I wrong?
I am talking about deviating the skis into the fall line. Lifting the tails and rotating the skis down the hill before pressure
Its your waist, Dad
?
What about your hands, you drop a hand on almost the end of every turn.
As long as the skis are working properly in the snow hands don’t matter
rolling your ankles to init the turn is NOT more limiting. Not doing it is. This is a question of finesse. you need to finesse the turn entry so that yes the ankles engage and carve the ski but not quite enough to edge lock. A small amount of skidding will slow you down drastically while upside down above the apex. This is in fact one of the secrets to keeping your speed down on the steeps.
You are saying skidding a carved turn is a secret technique and not just an unskilled carved turn?
It’s no secret, and it takes skill to do it well
@@keim3548 I don't think its a "secret" but if you want speed control on the steeps, using it above the apex is key. Yes there is a big difference between skilled skidding and unintended skidding. by the way, pivoting your skis above the apex is not skidding, that is just pivoting and does not control your speed.
@@Dewdman42correct. Use a STIVOT. What ski dad seems to be suggesting is that when the pitch or speed gets to be more than we can handle, we give up on proper technique, and revert to old style skiing where all the work was done late in the turn.
@@shooter7a no a stivot is absolutely NOT what I was talking about and not even remotely close to what SkiDad was demonstrating in this video. A stivot is more of a pivot then it is a skidded carve. The two things are miles apart. A skidded carve fundamentally is not using any steering or pivoting of any kind, it simply does not achieve absolute edge lock. the ability to carve a round turn shape but with micro amounts of skidding is what achieves maximum speed control in non-racing scenarios, on the steeps, etc. Stivoting is something else entirely If we're talking bout racing tactics, which its not clear to me at all from the video that we are specifically talking about race tactics, but if we are, then stivot very well might be preferable because the goal there is get down the hill as fast "as possible" even if some slowing down is required in certain situations, so a very slight stivot and jam onto the line to carve out the bottom very well may be strategically more interesting, but it is most definitely not the most effective way to control your speed. This video was about using the ankles more and he made a comment that is "more limiting" due to loss of control on the steeps...I'm simply saying...that is point blank a wrong statement, unless we are talking specially about racing where you might actually slow down too much!
next video should be about hand position, which you should improve
You don't rotate enough, Dad
You are extending and throwing your upper body into the new turn which creates unbalance. This forces you to place too much weight on the inside ski and scissor it forward in a crunched up stance. From this position you can't develop a tight radius turn after the fall line for speed control.
Are you even watching the skiing?
Yes. It's your weight and body position at the end of the turn. You are limited to fast fall line skiing and not being able to execute speed control and direction change by bending the outside ski at the end of the turn. As an exercise, skiing slowly, at the end of the turn try carving until you are facing up hill in balance.
You truly lost me in the what to do on steeper runs. A lot of what to do on greens, but confusing as to technique on steeps. Please slow down, and clarify. Thanks
Lift the tails of the skis and rotate.
@@skidadTV Just the simple lift of the tails allows easy rotation! Got it!
I've commented before. You could get more out of the inside ski by getting it to same angle as outside ski. In short, get knees apart. On these easy groomers think about initiating or aiming turn with inside knee, away from outside knee.
Ugh, the internet ski technique police can't just keep it to themselves. His shins look parallel, and both skis are leaving a clean arc. I just don't see what you're talking about. This is high-level skiing.
Nice skiing but try with a wider stance and more patience trough the turns, try to think each turn is done when your tips look up the mountain.
He's doing fine with his style of skiing, are you trying to get him to ski back up hill?
No, you are not "rolling your ankles" when skiing like in the video. "Rolling your ankles" means you ACTIVATE that joint. You can do that movement when wearing regular shoes. But your ankles cannot operate laterally any longer when they are blocked inside your ski boot. You think you are rolling your ankles, but actually you are rolling them in the same way as you roll your boots, the nails of your feet, your feet, the paint of your boots, your skis...
Another uninformed statement from you regarding ankles.
@@Skedawg88
you are ignorant my dear: wear a good boot, fasten it correctly and try to roll your ankles. ..if you can.
@@claudiozanella256 I suggest you read the latest PSIA alpine manual, or consult with a professional skier. Sorry, but the video you posted of your skiing only confirms you’re unknowledgeable; If your turns had been of larger radius you could have rolled an ankle on one ski.
@@Skedawg88
by a real skier? My dear I got shout-outs from austrian chairlifts some years ago when I was younger! I would like to see how you ski
@@Skedawg88
People writing PSIA manuals do not know phisics, they do not know that skiing is possible due to the formula F=MA . It is only due to ACCELERATIONS that you can get FORCES that enable you to turn your skis. They do not know that it is thanks to a pression of the skis on the snow they can start making a diagonal in front of your body. Of course if you allow the lower part of your body to do so...