That's smart, I often do this in groups when my bike is rolling a bit too well behind somebody, just go upright and you don't have to apply lots of micro-braking.
Just like moto GP racing , as a motorcycle and bicycle enthusiast I can confirm this works very well , I do it on my regular basis.I also use the same rule on the motorcycle for braking on the bicycle, 70% front and 30% rear applying progressively . And for less grip and wet surfaces I recommend releasing a little bit of pressure from the tires , you can apply more power on the brakes without going to die .
A few small pieces of advice I'd like to add: For every ride, before you get on, apply more power to each brake handle than you would during an emergency stop(test front and back separately), and try moving the bike forward and backwards while applying that force. First of all, most of us rarely do emergency stops, so a cable or hose/connector might have a weak spot. It's better to have it blow/snap when you're standing next to the bike, than when you actually need to brake for your life, and the cable/hose says "NOPE!". Secondly when then moving the bike with a lot of force applied, look for play in the brakes/wheels. you'll see/hear/feel it when something's wrong. Just make a habit out of doing it every time before you get on the bike, even after a short stop somewhere. Secondly, if you have cable actuated brakes, have them set up so they start braking early on in the movement of the levers. If a bunch of strands of the brake cable decide to snap, the cable will "stretch", and you might not be able to brake anymore because the levers are at the limit of their movement. The connection between the lever and caliper will still be there, you're just unable to actually use it.
@@johnnunn8688 Of course that can always be the case, yet in my experience most stuff gets damaged when the bike is parked or when doing maintenance. Something might not be tight, something or someone might have bumped into the bike damaging something, and that kinda stuff will present itself with a simple 2-3 second stress test like this. Obviously it's no guarantee nothing will ever happen. I've had multiple times where something failed, or turned out to not be tight while testing it before a ride, but I've never had something like the brakes fail during a ride though. It was a piece of advice from a bike mechanic that maintained my bike when I was young, and it just became a habit. It's one I'm sure has prevented me from running into issues on rides multiple times in the 25-30 or so years since then. It's just a piece of advice that I got 25-30 yrs ago that has worked out really well for me, do with it as you wish.
I actually managed to trigger the Garmin crash warning when coming to a stop from about 60 kph after a descent, so you can stop pretty hard without locking up. One more thing on braking in corners - it doesn't only cause you to skid out, it also shifts weight (pulls you back upright countering you leaning into the corner), so you might go wider than when trusting in your grip and line and make the bend. Or go straight (when the situation allows it), brake and shave off some speed, then turn again roll out of the corner annoyingly slow but upright.
This was immensely helpful to me. I recently had a 'right of passage' fall over my handlebars due to breaking wrong.I've been in my head ever since, worried I'll fall again. I'm hoping with time and educating myself more I can prevent something like that happening again. Thank you for the knowledge you shared.
From 18 to 21 I worked at a 7-11 in Los Angeles. I was heavily in to cycling back then. Now in my mid 50's I use cycling mostly for fitness. One day we got some training videos in from the 7-11 cycling team. One section of the video focused on emergency stops. Learning to slide off the back of that seat and pull those levers hard saved my butt on the street many times.
For real emergency braking I was taught to apply the rear brake VERY lightly - and then apply the front brake as hard as possible. If (when) the rear wheel starts to skid you are at maximum possible braking and about to go over the handlebar. Moving your weight back will help increase braking. Obviously this needs allot of practice but the theoretical maximum for braking on a bike is around 0.65G any more and the rear wheel lifts up. The closer and more consistently you can get to that maximum, the faster you stop.
Surely if you apply the front as hard as possible you’ll go over the handlebars, irrespective of what you do with the rear brake? Or are you saying back off the front brake when the rear starts to skid?
@@Tailspin80 you are using the rear brake as a warning to let you you know before you go over the handlebars. If the rear skids you are approaching the max braking possible. The lighter you apply the rear brake if it skids, the closer to maximum braking and going over so this takes practice!
@@yisraels4555 Yes, it was the advice to apply the front brake as hard as possible I was questioning. Fine if you have old style rim brakes but I have hydraulic disks and would be up and over if I did that.
@@Tailspin80 as hard as possible without skidding the rear wheel. Makes no difference if it is rim or disk brakes. Either way you apply the front brake until the rear just begins to skid. That is the maximum braking power possible. And a properly adjusted rim brake can and will also send you over the handlebars.
I’ve just ridden 37 miles. A fairly decent ride by my standards and after watching this video I used only the front brake. It actually works out better. My ride was faster and I didn’t have any panic moments where I needed to jam them really hard. It was probably one of my most satisfying rides and a little chain issue didn’t derail a good day. Excuse the pun. 🤦♂️
I raced motocross for a few years before I got into road cycling, and I was able to carry over many braking skills, with the most important being 'only brake when it's absolutely necessary'.
I'm glad it was a nice day for ya Si, I don't ride in the rain I'm old and I like staying dry beside rain days I get to do two yoga classes. Seriously you wanna feel better on your bike , practice yoga Hot yoga and don't wuss out go 4x a week. The good thing about yoga you get stronger without the need for large non-aero muscles.
I would love it if you guys could do a video on how to descend fast without fear. I'm one of those riders who is on the brakes when the roads get steep and would love to get over this - knowing it's a psychological issue, but I'm not sure how to get over the fear factor of going very fast.
I think it's also worth noting that using your brakes while riding in a group can be dangerous, especially with a heavy hand. Even pros will call out if they're going to brake hard, and generally it's best to try to modulate your speed via your cadence or your position, or even by gentle nudges, which we also often see in a peloton. There is an etiquette to group riding that includes respecting the fact that people are behind you.
That also makes "Aero" a joke. Everyone in a group ride spent thousands on the greatest aero bikes...to draft where aero is not a factor at all. Sheesh! Suckers buy $Xx,xxx dollar aero bikes with unadjustable bars, semi-fixed saddles and no chance of putting it right because the parts are made to only fit if they're of the same brand. Not to mention you might pull your...bike out of the car at a race and find something broken or out of whack. Good luck with that. Maybe you forgot you Makita drill to put the wheel on, or an internal wire or some brake plumbing is not functioning..Pack back up and head home to the shop who sold you your Aero gem..They can fix it. Here's a wicked idea:. Keep your light simple bike and just say to your mates. "Hey, you pull. I can't make this old crate go more than about 96% of what you can with your aero gucci.". And then sit on and enjoy ~20% savings of effort..till the last climb...
In my experience, braking skills are better tested when riding off-road, where skids occur at slower speeds and corners are sharper and crashes are generally more forgiving. I remember going 80kph down a busy road and outrunning cars and motorcycles, it was very liberating and scary. I can't remember how many times I fishtailed because my rear brakes go from 70% to 100% by squeezing them harder. I can also agree with not braking in corners, the bike wants to stand up and go straight in corners, and also your field of vision is limited in these places.
Emergency braking, e.g. for suicidal wallabies, or numpties in cars that don't understand right of way, or how fast bikes travel... Wonderful when these happen on the same ride.
1. That’s a good looking bike 2. I tend to do a fair bit of controlled stoppies on both road and mountain bikes. This is pretty effective to slow speed fast and get back on the power.
Great video and great handling skills from the Si twins. Even after 50+ years of riding, this sort of content gives me really useful info to cross check if I’m still doing the most efficient thing and also fantastic comments which deliver even more tips to keep me from pain, injury and disaster!
Here's something to consider:. Disc brake pads are temperature-sensitive. When they're cold they have less grip. When hot, more grip. And, various discs will have different stopping force depending on what the compound is, and they'll heat up at different rates. So, if you ride in UK in winter you'll want pads that are for cold and if you're riding in hot mountains you'll want pads that like to work at very high temps. But, your first hairpin corner, you'll need to apply big force because the brakes will be cold, then 5 miles on, you need less force on the lever, and 6 or 7 miles on, the pads may again change behavior because they've gotten really hot and are beyond their heat range...Also the rotors can/will warp as they get hot. Keep this in mind.
I think that primarily (only?) applies to metallic pads. I've been riding discs with organic pads for over 30,000 miles and never noticed temperature sensitivity.
@@jefferycampbell2243 Sorry Jeffrey, all pads no matter what the material have an optimim temperature range where they're most effective. Usually very soft (relative) pads are more effective when cold but fade when hot. Harder ones have more grip as they get hotter, and don't fade as quickly. I get it why mountain bikes use the disc, but there's no desire in me to pay a significant amount more to buy a bike with inferior qualities and performance issues. If I were getting a salary riding for a team with sponsors who mandated their disc bikes be ridden, well that would be reason to ride one, but I buy and maintain my own bikes..and the latest fads being touted by the bike industry are pretty silly, in my opinion...
Old (motor) bikers saying relating to cornering efficiently comes to mind. In slow out fast. In fast out feet first. Same principle is true for bicycles as well. Very good video by the way. Diolch.
I am so happy you mentioned that front breaks are the bulk of your breaking. You wouldn't believe how many motorcyclists who believe the rear breaks do most of the breaking. I get tired of arguing with them.
Lmao exactly just met a cyclist today who was tryna sell off his bike and his brakes kinda felt wierd I ask him why and he say “well don’t you know that you are supposed to use your rear brakes all the time?” I was speechless bro
Years ago when I was a motorcyclist(aye, pre-ABS) the advice usually was to go 75% front/25% rear when braking, as for braking in a corner maybe not so relevant to rigid forks but deffo on suspension(suppose that could include gravel now as the bike "evolves" (Revolves?!) back to a FS mountain bike with drop bars ) fork was never brake in corners as it causes the steering geometry to change, generally the headtube dives and the front wheel tucks in....crash city....
I remember from motorbiking that if you feather your front brake in a corner you steer outwards but if you do your back brake you steer inwards. I've not noticed the same on my road bike. Maybe it's a geometry thing due to suspension, as you suggest?
Pretty good video. Just a couple things. 1. Wait for the weight, in other words wait for the weight transfer to really make the front brake work, this will load up the front tire and increase the contact patch and the weight will increase the traction. Brakes, especially front brakes, don’t like to be surprised. 2. Water- water is not a lubricant. What’s actually happening is the rain gets in the texture of the surface and floats the tiny debris up to the surface. The debris then is the lubricant. Additionally g load in a turn for a two wheel vehicle is not a concern until 1g is achieved, which happens around 41 degrees of lean angle. Clean wet roadway is going to lower the friction available from 1g to about .08-.09 g. So unless you are leaning the bike to 40 degrees just ride as normal, if the surface is clean and wet. So since lean angle is part of the equation then limiting lean angle is important. When turning use your head to the inside to positively weight the bike. This will allow the bike to remain more upright, which is safer and allows an earlier power delivery, exactly why MotoGP riders have all their body weight to the inside of the motorcycle, no I’m not saying to look like Valentino Rossi, lol, on your bicycle. I am saying do not counter lean your body. Counter leaning feels more secure, because your body is more upright but it causes excessive lean angles of the bike. And most importantly keep your head and eyes up when riding, braking, and turning. No matter what happens keep looking where you want to go and fight to get there !
I'm among the fastest going up in my group and definitely the slowest coming down... :D A couple of crashes going down (with me at fault) really have me worked...
Practice & more practice (+ lots of GCN tips videos!) is key. Confidence can take a while to come back but working on technique & confidence is the best way!
I wish this video was available 8 days earlier before I had was in the mountains of North Carolina. There was a big descent in Boone (segment average uphill of 14.3% and another descent in Seven Devils that I attempted 3 times, finally hitting my fastest IRL road bike speed of 82.6kph. I realize now that I dragged my brakes too much on both descents and could have gone even faster. Full disclosure: I did do it safely, staying on my side of the road, and made sure that there were no vehicles that I would catch up to.
I ride street motorcycle as well (think motogp) if you need to bleed off some speed in a corner you can also trail brake by gently applying the rear brake
@1:30, Si says it’s important to know which is your front brake (squeezing left lever) and which is your back brake (squeezing right lever). Only for later squeezing them vice versa 🤣. Joking of course. Great vid 👍
Next video can you show us how to preform emergency urination without dismounting? Also looking fly Si guy. All black bike though... cmon bro you got more flare then that !
Nice info, As a new back to bicycling rider (2 months now) It took me a few miles to get used to my bicycle's brakes, coming from a lifetime of motorcycle riding where the brakes are the opposite, on a motorcycle the front brake is on the right side of handlebar. I know my bike has good brakes because on my commute to work a car backed out of a driveway in front of me the driver never looked in my direction and the same thing happened to me on the way home, normal day. I noticed when I got my new bike home the back brake felt vague the front was good, had to do a little adjusting to get it right for me, I got rim brakes so it was an easy task.
@@MarkRiddellRacing I was referring to going from motorcycles to bicycles, on a motorcycle the front brake is on the right, the left is the clutch lever. I have been riding motorcycles most of my life so it took a few miles for me to get my brain wired using my bicycle controls, my bike has front/left.
Thank you for all this valuable information on this video! I was afraid that this UA-cam channel is going very bad because of the lack of valuable info in the last couple of videos, but this one it's VERY GOOD! GOOD LUCK!
I sometimes aproach corners with too much speed, so I lower my center of mass like im descending, while constantly braking to shave off any aerodinamic speed gain, and also modulating brakes to achive better weight distribution in order to have more grip on the front wheel. Its high adrenaline manouver, cause brakes must stay applied all the way till the end of corner in order not to cause any disturbance in cornering forces. Its scarry cause we asess corners by how fast we can coast them (it looks imposible), key is not to look in front where youre going, but instead focus on how tight radius you need to achieve by looking sideways at distance to the outer edge.
Ellen Noble was featured in a previous video. She mentioned applying both brakes before the corner and using only the rear while turning. That tip helped my descending so much
In America it is common for the left lever to activate the front brake, and the right lever to do the same with the rear brake. In Europe it's the other way around. Learning that fact almost cost me a crash. Do check which lever is which, specially before riding a bike unfamiliar to you.
I've got cable operated discs on my winter bike, it's frightening. It WILL NOT stop. I've literally had smoke pouring off them on a few steep descents before now
** push down as you apply your brakes for extra traction. yes, you can only "push down" for a breif moment but by doing it right you can brake harder. practice by slaming your brakes as if to lock both wheels and just stamp down on the bike and see if you wheels slide, or not.
Now in my area the powers to be like putting stop signs at the bottom of a descent. So don't go too fast otherwise you might get broadsided by a car if you go past the stop sign.
I spent a summer working in USA i rode a mtb off road and i didnt know the brakes are the different way round from here in the UK... yes straight over the handlebars lol
after many years I still don't have confidence to do emergency front brake. simply unable to control body weight and react not in panic fashion. anyway for cornering if need control, I only use rear brake to lightly tracing the route and out of corner.
I started using disc brakes on mountain bikes and quickly learned to minimize front braking to avoid the front wheel sliding out in loose conditions. When I started riding discs on my road bike, I realized I was using too much rear brake when the rear pads wore out and the front were still like new. To "break" this habit, I tried riding an entire week using ONLY the front brake. It did the trick, I quickly gained front brake confidence. This also increased my rear tire tread life by 50% without any noticeable loss in front tire tread life.
Would be good to see a series where you take a novice rider, who is mid 30s-40, not over weight but relatively unfit, who works 9-5 with a family and see if they too can become a decent rider. Basically someone like me 🥴😂
The old ”motorcycle trick” works well too under sudden, heavy braking. A dab on the front brake to settle the bike down and then a full squeeze on both brake leavers. And fellow rim brake cyclist: use the right brakepads if you got carbon wheels. Ride safe everybody👍☀️
Cool, but how about winter cycling? What is the optimal weight balance when the road is snowy or icy, and what effect does the choice of tires have? I guess the rule is then to break early if there's a chance that you might need to slow down in a bit.
When Si is cornering, his body is leaning in the corner while is head is 'heading' outside of the corner (3:52). Why is that? From my 🏍 days, I've learnered to lean into a corner with my whole body, including the head on the 🚲.
I need a Rim brake. I have yet to find a good Disc bike I am bigger they seem to fail on me but the only way my old rim brake bike ever failed was thru theft! I have my sons Trek in my garage $286 bought back in 2004 it is a total tank! My 2020 Talon $889 lost two rear bubs which caused me to loose two derailers and my brakes failed which a caused a nasty accident, My Specialized disc brake model just fell apart spoke always failed rebuilt my wheels several times and again bearing failures through out. My Rocky mountain was the best of the bunch but the frame broke. All these issues have root problems and the source of these issue id the Disc brake system that is weaker by design! I had none of these failures with my rim bikes! I do light trails combined with black top 20 milers 5 times a week I think I am close to the average rider.
So this comment is from a crazy person. LOL Me. I have disc brakes on my bike I have completely removed the disc and caliper and cable from the rear as they have been messed up for at least four or five months I'm used to riding on only my front brakes and I race up hills down hills right through the city traffic I find myself never missing the back brakes..... I have my my front adjusted so they will not lock up. I am on a gravel bike with street tires all I ride is pavement. And I generally ride the same routes all the time I always have an exit plan. And I definitely ride at speed. Definitely not for the faint of heart I've got plenty of crashes under my belt until you're okay with it.
You should always have two independent breaking systems, you might not feel like your brakes are gonna fail but that one time it does it'll be nice to have a pair. Drive safe!
@@bullerfugl I here you. I probably will when I rebuild the bike I just went and did my downhill. I think I still need taller gears I still spin out around 35 mph. I never touch my brakes on that I just try to get as aero as I can and when I start coming back up the hill I just let go to bars sit up put my hands behind my neck and breathe in that basically slows me down if I need to squeeze the brakes they work fine they will not lock up I just adjusted them them before I left on this trip
Basically a video that MTBers have been watching since a decade ago. But then again, it’s good that road cyclists (and bikes) are finally catching up to mtb. Many of these techniques are only applicable because road bikes finally have disc brakes which allow for the fine modulation needed to execute these techniques.
I’d like to know in which circumstances do we need to use the front/rear break in different ratio. I tend to pull both levers with same amount of power, but someone told me this is not the case every time.
When you're braking hard, especially descending, your front wheel is pushed into the road whilst your back wheel is pulled up from the road (even if it doesn't lift up). If you put the same force into your back brake the wheel will skid.
Not sure if the intention to brake or not actually counts as technique. What you can take away is that there's only time for a one call. Not braking and then panicking on the levers is probably worse than any other option.
It would have been a good discussion point to talk about some of the various concerns with disc brakes overheating and locking up. I believe there have been a number of pro crashes as a result?
Debo estar equivocado (capaz que no es así); pero noté que el freno trasero lo usan en el lado derecho de la bicicleta, asumo que tiene que ver con el lado de la carretera que se usa en el Reino Unido!... 🤔
This bike was really easy to assemble ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
I drive bikes and motorcycles. And its frustrating when some bike brakrs are inverted (right lever for rear). It causes me to be confused which brake I should ease on. Does anyone have this problem? And why did they invert them in the first place?
@@miladne1092 perhaps they 'duno' the 'froggies' drives on the right hand side of the road ; whilst the 'britons' use the left hand side of theirs roads : hence the real reason theirs break systems are opposite ( for important hand signaling to the others road users ) Which one is your county ( by the way) ?
Never ride (or drive for that matter) operating a vehicle faster than you can both see *AND* stop in time. Suggest mountain biking for cross training to all road cyclists not just for the exercise value but also for the bike control skills which are 3x as important as on a road bike.
It's like doing a wheelie in reverse, also called an endo. In a wheelie, you put high torque through the back wheel and the front tyre pops up. When you brake hard, it puts a lot of force through your front wheel and increases the friction there, meaning you can brake harder before losing traction.
Because when you brake the weight shifts to the front (you can see that better on vehicles with suspension - cars, motorcycles, etc. - the nose dives once brakes are applied) getting more traction and more braking power can be transfered. the rear wheel on the contrary looses much of its braking power because it gets light and simply skids. for that same reason, apart from rim brakes on a bike, most vehicles have siginificantly better brakes (larger discs, more brake caliper pistons, etc.) on the front compared to the rear. big power is simply not needed there because the front does the most amount of work.
Where will you be going on your next ride to practice and apply these top tips?
To a vineyard just for a few samplers so brakes will be useful on the way back.
Sounds like we have homework !
My levers have got too much travel …. I need to adjust them first. Time to look up one of your other vids.
On my commute to work.
@@bikecommuter24 me too, massive downhill right from my porch.
On Zwift 😉
If you need to shave off a little bit of speed on descents, get less aero. Using your body as a wind break will skim off a couple of km/h.
That's smart, I often do this in groups when my bike is rolling a bit too well behind somebody, just go upright and you don't have to apply lots of micro-braking.
Exactly its literally common sense
@@khalilsart8189 So are physics. 😇
Just like moto GP racing , as a motorcycle and bicycle enthusiast I can confirm this works very well , I do it on my regular basis.I also use the same rule on the motorcycle for braking on the bicycle, 70% front and 30% rear applying progressively . And for less grip and wet surfaces I recommend releasing a little bit of pressure from the tires , you can apply more power on the brakes without going to die .
Just don't brake while you're standing on the pedals. Keep the weight low
A few small pieces of advice I'd like to add:
For every ride, before you get on, apply more power to each brake handle than you would during an emergency stop(test front and back separately), and try moving the bike forward and backwards while applying that force.
First of all, most of us rarely do emergency stops, so a cable or hose/connector might have a weak spot. It's better to have it blow/snap when you're standing next to the bike, than when you actually need to brake for your life, and the cable/hose says "NOPE!".
Secondly when then moving the bike with a lot of force applied, look for play in the brakes/wheels. you'll see/hear/feel it when something's wrong. Just make a habit out of doing it every time before you get on the bike, even after a short stop somewhere.
Secondly, if you have cable actuated brakes, have them set up so they start braking early on in the movement of the levers. If a bunch of strands of the brake cable decide to snap, the cable will "stretch", and you might not be able to brake anymore because the levers are at the limit of their movement. The connection between the lever and caliper will still be there, you're just unable to actually use it.
But your hose test might turn out to be the last high pressure test, before it blows during your ride 🤷♂️.
@@johnnunn8688 Of course that can always be the case, yet in my experience most stuff gets damaged when the bike is parked or when doing maintenance. Something might not be tight, something or someone might have bumped into the bike damaging something, and that kinda stuff will present itself with a simple 2-3 second stress test like this. Obviously it's no guarantee nothing will ever happen. I've had multiple times where something failed, or turned out to not be tight while testing it before a ride, but I've never had something like the brakes fail during a ride though.
It was a piece of advice from a bike mechanic that maintained my bike when I was young, and it just became a habit. It's one I'm sure has prevented me from running into issues on rides multiple times in the 25-30 or so years since then.
It's just a piece of advice that I got 25-30 yrs ago that has worked out really well for me, do with it as you wish.
Good tips!
@@esenel92, tongue in cheek 😀.
@@johnnunn8688 I kinda figured as much, but these days online you can never be sure (or how other people might interpret it) 😂
I actually managed to trigger the Garmin crash warning when coming to a stop from about 60 kph after a descent, so you can stop pretty hard without locking up. One more thing on braking in corners - it doesn't only cause you to skid out, it also shifts weight (pulls you back upright countering you leaning into the corner), so you might go wider than when trusting in your grip and line and make the bend. Or go straight (when the situation allows it), brake and shave off some speed, then turn again roll out of the corner annoyingly slow but upright.
Me too. I have had to switch it off and that is just coming up to traffic lights.
@@bjmullan Must have been some kind of firmware glitch that's long been fixed, though... had it once or twice in 2019 but never again since then.
This was immensely helpful to me. I recently had a 'right of passage' fall over my handlebars due to breaking wrong.I've been in my head ever since, worried I'll fall again. I'm hoping with time and educating myself more I can prevent something like that happening again. Thank you for the knowledge you shared.
From 18 to 21 I worked at a 7-11 in Los Angeles. I was heavily in to cycling back then. Now in my mid 50's I use cycling mostly for fitness. One day we got some training videos in from the 7-11 cycling team. One section of the video focused on emergency stops. Learning to slide off the back of that seat and pull those levers hard saved my butt on the street many times.
For real emergency braking I was taught to apply the rear brake VERY lightly - and then apply the front brake as hard as possible. If (when) the rear wheel starts to skid you are at maximum possible braking and about to go over the handlebar. Moving your weight back will help increase braking. Obviously this needs allot of practice but the theoretical maximum for braking on a bike is around 0.65G any more and the rear wheel lifts up. The closer and more consistently you can get to that maximum, the faster you stop.
Very clear thanks 👍
Surely if you apply the front as hard as possible you’ll go over the handlebars, irrespective of what you do with the rear brake? Or are you saying back off the front brake when the rear starts to skid?
@@Tailspin80 you are using the rear brake as a warning to let you you know before you go over the handlebars. If the rear skids you are approaching the max braking possible. The lighter you apply the rear brake if it skids, the closer to maximum braking and going over so this takes practice!
@@yisraels4555 Yes, it was the advice to apply the front brake as hard as possible I was questioning. Fine if you have old style rim brakes but I have hydraulic disks and would be up and over if I did that.
@@Tailspin80 as hard as possible without skidding the rear wheel. Makes no difference if it is rim or disk brakes. Either way you apply the front brake until the rear just begins to skid. That is the maximum braking power possible. And a properly adjusted rim brake can and will also send you over the handlebars.
I’ve just ridden 37 miles. A fairly decent ride by my standards and after watching this video I used only the front brake. It actually works out better. My ride was faster and I didn’t have any panic moments where I needed to jam them really hard. It was probably one of my most satisfying rides and a little chain issue didn’t derail a good day. Excuse the pun. 🤦♂️
No need to apologize. If people don’t like it, that’s the brakes. 😂
I raced motocross for a few years before I got into road cycling, and I was able to carry over many braking skills, with the most important being 'only brake when it's absolutely necessary'.
I'm glad it was a nice day for ya Si, I don't ride in the rain I'm old and I like staying dry beside rain days I get to do two yoga classes. Seriously you wanna feel better on your bike , practice yoga Hot yoga and don't wuss out go 4x a week. The good thing about yoga you get stronger without the need for large non-aero muscles.
I would love it if you guys could do a video on how to descend fast without fear. I'm one of those riders who is on the brakes when the roads get steep and would love to get over this - knowing it's a psychological issue, but I'm not sure how to get over the fear factor of going very fast.
This is me too! I just can't seem to stop myself from doing it. Would also love a video with tips on how to overcome it!
I think it's also worth noting that using your brakes while riding in a group can be dangerous, especially with a heavy hand. Even pros will call out if they're going to brake hard, and generally it's best to try to modulate your speed via your cadence or your position, or even by gentle nudges, which we also often see in a peloton. There is an etiquette to group riding that includes respecting the fact that people are behind you.
That also makes "Aero" a joke. Everyone in a group ride spent thousands on the greatest aero bikes...to draft where aero is not a factor at all. Sheesh! Suckers buy $Xx,xxx dollar aero bikes with unadjustable bars, semi-fixed saddles and no chance of putting it right because the parts are made to only fit if they're of the same brand. Not to mention you might pull your...bike out of the car at a race and find something broken or out of whack. Good luck with that. Maybe you forgot you Makita drill to put the wheel on, or an internal wire or some brake plumbing is not functioning..Pack back up and head home to the shop who sold you your Aero gem..They can fix it.
Here's a wicked idea:. Keep your light simple bike and just say to your mates. "Hey, you pull. I can't make this old crate go more than about 96% of what you can with your aero gucci.". And then sit on and enjoy ~20% savings of effort..till the last climb...
In my experience, braking skills are better tested when riding off-road, where skids occur at slower speeds and corners are sharper and crashes are generally more forgiving. I remember going 80kph down a busy road and outrunning cars and motorcycles, it was very liberating and scary. I can't remember how many times I fishtailed because my rear brakes go from 70% to 100% by squeezing them harder. I can also agree with not braking in corners, the bike wants to stand up and go straight in corners, and also your field of vision is limited in these places.
Emergency braking, e.g. for suicidal wallabies, or numpties in cars that don't understand right of way, or how fast bikes travel... Wonderful when these happen on the same ride.
1. That’s a good looking bike
2. I tend to do a fair bit of controlled stoppies on both road and mountain bikes. This is pretty effective to slow speed fast and get back on the power.
Great video and great handling skills from the Si twins. Even after 50+ years of riding, this sort of content gives me really useful info to cross check if I’m still doing the most efficient thing and also fantastic comments which deliver even more tips to keep me from pain, injury and disaster!
Here's something to consider:. Disc brake pads are temperature-sensitive. When they're cold they have less grip. When hot, more grip. And, various discs will have different stopping force depending on what the compound is, and they'll heat up at different rates.
So, if you ride in UK in winter you'll want pads that are for cold and if you're riding in hot mountains you'll want pads that like to work at very high temps.
But, your first hairpin corner, you'll need to apply big force because the brakes will be cold, then 5 miles on, you need less force on the lever, and 6 or 7 miles on, the pads may again change behavior because they've gotten really hot and are beyond their heat range...Also the rotors can/will warp as they get hot.
Keep this in mind.
This explains why so many crashes with road disc now vs rim - inconsistent braking feel based on temp.
I think that primarily (only?) applies to metallic pads. I've been riding discs with organic pads for over 30,000 miles and never noticed temperature sensitivity.
@@jefferycampbell2243 Sorry Jeffrey, all pads no matter what the material have an optimim temperature range where they're most effective. Usually very soft (relative) pads are more effective when cold but fade when hot. Harder ones have more grip as they get hotter, and don't fade as quickly.
I get it why mountain bikes use the disc, but there's no desire in me to pay a significant amount more to buy a bike with inferior qualities and performance issues. If I were getting a salary riding for a team with sponsors who mandated their disc bikes be ridden, well that would be reason to ride one, but I buy and maintain my own bikes..and the latest fads being touted by the bike industry are pretty silly, in my opinion...
Old (motor) bikers saying relating to cornering efficiently comes to mind.
In slow out fast. In fast out feet first.
Same principle is true for bicycles as well.
Very good video by the way.
Diolch.
Thx! 👌tips! Practice 3 till 10 of august ‘22 on holiday in Limburg, the Netherlands and Belgium.
I am so happy you mentioned that front breaks are the bulk of your breaking. You wouldn't believe how many motorcyclists who believe the rear breaks do most of the breaking. I get tired of arguing with them.
Lmao exactly just met a cyclist today who was tryna sell off his bike and his brakes kinda felt wierd I ask him why and he say “well don’t you know that you are supposed to use your rear brakes all the time?” I was speechless bro
Years ago when I was a motorcyclist(aye, pre-ABS) the advice usually was to go 75% front/25% rear when braking, as for braking in a corner maybe not so relevant to rigid forks but deffo on suspension(suppose that could include gravel now as the bike "evolves" (Revolves?!) back to a FS mountain bike with drop bars ) fork was never brake in corners as it causes the steering geometry to change, generally the headtube dives and the front wheel tucks in....crash city....
I remember from motorbiking that if you feather your front brake in a corner you steer outwards but if you do your back brake you steer inwards. I've not noticed the same on my road bike. Maybe it's a geometry thing due to suspension, as you suggest?
Pretty good video. Just a couple things.
1. Wait for the weight, in other words wait for the weight transfer to really make the front brake work, this will load up the front tire and increase the contact patch and the weight will increase the traction. Brakes, especially front brakes, don’t like to be surprised.
2. Water- water is not a lubricant. What’s actually happening is the rain gets in the texture of the surface and floats the tiny debris up to the surface. The debris then is the lubricant. Additionally g load in a turn for a two wheel vehicle is not a concern until 1g is achieved, which happens around 41 degrees of lean angle. Clean wet roadway is going to lower the friction available from 1g to about .08-.09 g. So unless you are leaning the bike to 40 degrees just ride as normal, if the surface is clean and wet.
So since lean angle is part of the equation then limiting lean angle is important. When turning use your head to the inside to positively weight the bike. This will allow the bike to remain more upright, which is safer and allows an earlier power delivery, exactly why MotoGP riders have all their body weight to the inside of the motorcycle, no I’m not saying to look like Valentino Rossi, lol, on your bicycle. I am saying do not counter lean your body. Counter leaning feels more secure, because your body is more upright but it causes excessive lean angles of the bike.
And most importantly keep your head and eyes up when riding, braking, and turning. No matter what happens keep looking where you want to go and fight to get there !
I’ve always thought of my front brakes as only for when I need to stop really quickly. I’ll have to practice with them now
I'm among the fastest going up in my group and definitely the slowest coming down... :D
A couple of crashes going down (with me at fault) really have me worked...
Practice & more practice (+ lots of GCN tips videos!) is key. Confidence can take a while to come back but working on technique & confidence is the best way!
@@gcn True! Thanks.
Same, I am light so descents are a bit scary at times, but climbing a breeze...😊
Same. Shame to lose the gains. I need to become my own shrink 😂
It would be interesting to hear Manon compare and contrast braking/cornering technique on a road bike vs in a car
I wish this video was available 8 days earlier before I had was in the mountains of North Carolina. There was a big descent in Boone (segment average uphill of 14.3% and another descent in Seven Devils that I attempted 3 times, finally hitting my fastest IRL road bike speed of 82.6kph. I realize now that I dragged my brakes too much on both descents and could have gone even faster. Full disclosure: I did do it safely, staying on my side of the road, and made sure that there were no vehicles that I would catch up to.
You guys have me learning new things all the time. Thanks very much 😀 👍 😊
Nice to see Connor and Si doing another video together
I ride street motorcycle as well (think motogp) if you need to bleed off some speed in a corner you can also trail brake by gently applying the rear brake
@1:30, Si says it’s important to know which is your front brake (squeezing left lever) and which is your back brake (squeezing right lever). Only for later squeezing them vice versa 🤣. Joking of course. Great vid 👍
It differs between the US and the UK. Personally I hate the Us system
@@miladne1092 I was waiting for that reply 🤣. Perhaps Si was just being bilingual, as he was filming in Wales 🤣
@@miladne1092 I've learnt something new today!
I am requesting a double payment for Simon for this video! He works 200% doing commentary and demonstrations at the same time! 🙃
Next video can you show us how to preform emergency urination without dismounting?
Also looking fly Si guy. All black bike though... cmon bro you got more flare then that !
Nice info,
As a new back to bicycling rider (2 months now) It took me a few miles to get used to my bicycle's brakes, coming from a lifetime of motorcycle riding where the brakes are the opposite, on a motorcycle the front brake is on the right side of handlebar.
I know my bike has good brakes because on my commute to work a car backed out of a driveway in front of me the driver never looked in my direction and the same thing happened to me on the way home, normal day.
I noticed when I got my new bike home the back brake felt vague the front was good, had to do a little adjusting to get it right for me, I got rim brakes so it was an easy task.
Guess you’re not in UK? Our bikes are front / left.
@@MarkRiddellRacing
I was referring to going from motorcycles to bicycles, on a motorcycle the front brake is on the right, the left is the clutch lever. I have been riding motorcycles most of my life so it took a few miles for me to get my brain wired using my bicycle controls, my bike has front/left.
@@bikecommuter24 hey man I’m a biker too, riding 20 years. Stay safe! Rubber side down.
@@MarkRiddellRacing 👍
Thank you for all this valuable information on this video! I was afraid that this UA-cam channel is going very bad because of the lack of valuable info in the last couple of videos, but this one it's VERY GOOD! GOOD LUCK!
Watched it and gave kudos despite I’m a fixed gear rider
Really appreciate these top tips with braking.
Happy to help!
I sometimes aproach corners with too much speed, so I lower my center of mass like im descending, while constantly braking to shave off any aerodinamic speed gain, and also modulating brakes to achive better weight distribution in order to have more grip on the front wheel. Its high adrenaline manouver, cause brakes must stay applied all the way till the end of corner in order not to cause any disturbance in cornering forces. Its scarry cause we asess corners by how fast we can coast them (it looks imposible), key is not to look in front where youre going, but instead focus on how tight radius you need to achieve by looking sideways at distance to the outer edge.
nice sailing over that cow stop @8:20
That Canyon is an absolute weapon 😍
can you add perhaps a part two episode how to best break when descending, a straight and a curved road?
He just did!
Ellen Noble was featured in a previous video. She mentioned applying both brakes before the corner and using only the rear while turning. That tip helped my descending so much
@@leftylum u can use both in the turn, just dont press em to hard
In America it is common for the left lever to activate the front brake, and the right lever to do the same with the rear brake. In Europe it's the other way around. Learning that fact almost cost me a crash. Do check which lever is which, specially before riding a bike unfamiliar to you.
Yes, very important to know which is which given they're not always the same!
I didn't know this!
One more reason I need to bring my own bike to my next trip!
I wish you guys would have released this video yesterday as I watch this injury in bed.
more of these please
we are all people, but in two countries,
Cycling is a hobby for you, but for me this bicycle is a dream... 😔😔😔😔
I would argue rules are not meant to be broken. Records are meant to be broken. Rules are just broken.
I've got cable operated discs on my winter bike, it's frightening. It WILL NOT stop. I've literally had smoke pouring off them on a few steep descents before now
One Si should have had a goatee, denoting him as the Evil Twin! Please implement in future.
** push down as you apply your brakes for extra traction. yes, you can only "push down" for a breif moment but by doing it right you can brake harder.
practice by slaming your brakes as if to lock both wheels and just stamp down on the bike and see if you wheels slide, or not.
Apply both brakes at once in a smooth and controlled way
Very useful, thank you!
Glad it was helpful Alina!
Now in my area the powers to be like putting stop signs at the bottom of a descent. So don't go too fast otherwise you might get broadsided by a car if you go past the stop sign.
Rumour has it that Si is still descending even now.
Well done video!
Thanks Len!
I spent a summer working in USA i rode a mtb off road and i didnt know the brakes are the different way round from here in the UK... yes straight over the handlebars lol
Should've tested them before you ride. 😅
So that's why you were around Llangattock and Dardy in South Wales lol
after many years I still don't have confidence to do emergency front brake. simply unable to control body weight and react not in panic fashion. anyway for cornering if need control, I only use rear brake to lightly tracing the route and out of corner.
I started using disc brakes on mountain bikes and quickly learned to minimize front braking to avoid the front wheel sliding out in loose conditions. When I started riding discs on my road bike, I realized I was using too much rear brake when the rear pads wore out and the front were still like new. To "break" this habit, I tried riding an entire week using ONLY the front brake. It did the trick, I quickly gained front brake confidence. This also increased my rear tire tread life by 50% without any noticeable loss in front tire tread life.
Would be good to see a series where you take a novice rider, who is mid 30s-40, not over weight but relatively unfit, who works 9-5 with a family and see if they too can become a decent rider. Basically someone like me 🥴😂
The old ”motorcycle trick” works well too under sudden, heavy braking. A dab on the front brake to settle the bike down and then a full squeeze on both brake leavers. And fellow rim brake cyclist: use the right brakepads if you got carbon wheels. Ride safe everybody👍☀️
No, always front brake just before the rear, this loads the front tyre, which is around 70% of your braking force.
Thanks for the correction John. It was a few years since I took my mc license. I got it mixed up. 😅
I almost don't brake too. Actually my technique is just the same like yours. Probably many off us have that technique.
Si could always use those glasses as airbrakes 😁
For those really critical braking situations, don't forget to deploy your drogue chute.
Cool, but how about winter cycling? What is the optimal weight balance when the road is snowy or icy, and what effect does the choice of tires have? I guess the rule is then to break early if there's a chance that you might need to slow down in a bit.
There are a ton of presenters nowadays, but we still need a couple of Simons for this video just to tell him that he has nice glasses 🥴😂
Why aren’t people using tap braking is beyond me. That is the most natural way to brake on a bike.
When Si is cornering, his body is leaning in the corner while is head is 'heading' outside of the corner (3:52). Why is that? From my 🏍 days, I've learnered to lean into a corner with my whole body, including the head on the 🚲.
Can you use cadence breaking on bikes?
Slow with the rear, stop with the front works for me.
I need a Rim brake. I have yet to find a good Disc bike I am bigger they seem to fail on me but the only way my old rim brake bike ever failed was thru theft! I have my sons Trek in my garage $286 bought back in 2004 it is a total tank! My 2020 Talon $889 lost two rear bubs which caused me to loose two derailers and my brakes failed which a caused a nasty accident, My Specialized disc brake model just fell apart spoke always failed rebuilt my wheels several times and again bearing failures through out. My Rocky mountain was the best of the bunch but the frame broke. All these issues have root problems and the source of these issue id the Disc brake system that is weaker by design! I had none of these failures with my rim bikes! I do light trails combined with black top 20 milers 5 times a week I think I am close to the average rider.
I do need to be braver I tend to break on long downhills cause I don’t want to go that fast
So this comment is from a crazy person. LOL Me. I have disc brakes on my bike I have completely removed the disc and caliper and cable from the rear as they have been messed up for at least four or five months I'm used to riding on only my front brakes and I race up hills down hills right through the city traffic I find myself never missing the back brakes..... I have my my front adjusted so they will not lock up. I am on a gravel bike with street tires all I ride is pavement. And I generally ride the same routes all the time I always have an exit plan. And I definitely ride at speed. Definitely not for the faint of heart I've got plenty of crashes under my belt until you're okay with it.
You should always have two independent breaking systems, you might not feel like your brakes are gonna fail but that one time it does it'll be nice to have a pair. Drive safe!
@@bullerfugl I here you. I probably will when I rebuild the bike I just went and did my downhill. I think I still need taller gears I still spin out around 35 mph. I never touch my brakes on that I just try to get as aero as I can and when I start coming back up the hill I just let go to bars sit up put my hands behind my neck and breathe in that basically slows me down if I need to squeeze the brakes they work fine they will not lock up I just adjusted them them before I left on this trip
Where was this filmed?
Basically a video that MTBers have been watching since a decade ago.
But then again, it’s good that road cyclists (and bikes) are finally catching up to mtb. Many of these techniques are only applicable because road bikes finally have disc brakes which allow for the fine modulation needed to execute these techniques.
I’d like to know in which circumstances do we need to use the front/rear break in different ratio. I tend to pull both levers with same amount of power, but someone told me this is not the case every time.
When you're braking hard, especially descending, your front wheel is pushed into the road whilst your back wheel is pulled up from the road (even if it doesn't lift up). If you put the same force into your back brake the wheel will skid.
@@DavidWhiteOfFleet oh it makes sense! even though it’s gonna be difficult to change a habit, thank you :)
Damn, if this video came out a few days earlier, Nicole Frain wouldn't have injured Martha Cavalli.
Not sure if the intention to brake or not actually counts as technique. What you can take away is that there's only time for a one call. Not braking and then panicking on the levers is probably worse than any other option.
That was a horrible crash!
Does it include bike lock
Surprised you didn't cover how to brake while going down a long descent while you were going down a long descent.
Is there safety gear other than helmet that we can wear in case things do go wrong? I wasn’t sure.
Should I make it to the end of the video, would I know what glasses are you wearing?
what speed do you have?
Is there any chances of having a road bike party 4?
It would have been a good discussion point to talk about some of the various concerns with disc brakes overheating and locking up. I believe there have been a number of pro crashes as a result?
Body positioning ??
Debo estar equivocado (capaz que no es así); pero noté que el freno trasero lo usan en el lado derecho de la bicicleta, asumo que tiene que ver con el lado de la carretera que se usa en el Reino Unido!... 🤔
This bike was really easy to assemble ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
Hey my cycle goes upto 30 kmph it brakes well
I drive bikes and motorcycles. And its frustrating when some bike brakrs are inverted (right lever for rear). It causes me to be confused which brake I should ease on.
Does anyone have this problem?
And why did they invert them in the first place?
In France right lever is always for rear
@@axelrannou2156 yes, but do you know why?
@@miladne1092 they drive on different sides of the road 9:26 9:26 9:26
@@manuelluis5456 it was 10 month ago and no detailed answers i got, shame, nobody reads.
@@miladne1092 perhaps they 'duno' the 'froggies' drives on the right hand side of the road ; whilst the 'britons' use the left hand side of theirs roads : hence the real reason theirs break systems are opposite ( for important hand signaling to the others road users )
Which one is your county ( by the way) ?
Now I know why my parents say don't Squeeze the brakes too hard only in an emergency
The only brakes I need are rim brakes
RIP
Thanks for sharing 😴
Never ride (or drive for that matter) operating a vehicle faster than you can both see *AND* stop in time.
Suggest mountain biking for cross training to all road cyclists not just for the exercise value but also for the bike control skills which are 3x as important as on a road bike.
Finally a video with sheep. 2 Sheep!
Why exactly does your front brake bring you to a halt quicker than the back?
It's like doing a wheelie in reverse, also called an endo. In a wheelie, you put high torque through the back wheel and the front tyre pops up. When you brake hard, it puts a lot of force through your front wheel and increases the friction there, meaning you can brake harder before losing traction.
Because when you brake the weight shifts to the front (you can see that better on vehicles with suspension - cars, motorcycles, etc. - the nose dives once brakes are applied) getting more traction and more braking power can be transfered. the rear wheel on the contrary looses much of its braking power because it gets light and simply skids. for that same reason, apart from rim brakes on a bike, most vehicles have siginificantly better brakes (larger discs, more brake caliper pistons, etc.) on the front compared to the rear. big power is simply not needed there because the front does the most amount of work.
Gloves
why is your quick realse out it should be folded in to the frame
The distaste I have for Si's sunglasses must be the same feeling he has for zip ties or chain keepers.
ok
Does Conor crash more than other GCN presenters? His COG is high, does that mean he takes more tumbles?
We recently discussed this in the office and decided Alex is the crashiest presenter!
That's because I'm always skidding
None of this matters when your discs lock and you skid out......rim brakes ftw
None of this matters when your rim brakes are ineffective in torrential rain and you crash…..disc brakes ftw
@@dh7314 lol yeah for every time we all ride in "torrential rain"
@@powerrod1657 like discs locking
Pro using disc brakes: **lose traction**
Ironic
Ok, what sheep-based shenanigans have I missed?