What the guy said about the apollo seats was actually a lie, the apollo capsule seats could be locked into different positions to allow for more space and maneuverability Indeed the center seat in the apollo capsule could be removed completely and stowed away, and with the lunar module attached, more "real estate" opened up, also taking a lack of gravity into account, an additional dimension of space opens up adding more space Those apollo astronauts had way more space than these chumps made it out to be
@@libertas12 i love space.. I'd be happy to leave earth and never return if I knew the end destination was mars or the moon or orbit or a colony planet
Its hilarious to watch people who know nothing about spaceflight criticizing Orion for having buttons and switches on its control panel. Yeah why on earth would someone want reliable controls that are guaranteed to trigger upon activation and can interface directly with the systems of the vehicle when you can make it 100% touch screen tablet based just because it's "newer"? Maybe we should get rid of steering wheels on cars too, thats old technology, right?
In essence, it's Apollo, but bigger, lighter, and roomier. They've learned the lessons required to have an all around vehicle to go to the moon and Mars, but it's really Apollo. Glad the shuttles are retired, being limited, costly, dangerous space vehicles. They did look cool, but were really impractical for what needs to be accomplished in space.
No way this thing goes to Mars by itself. You need more room. Imagine being cooped up in this with three other guys on a six month journey to Mars. You need more space for storage and better sleeping quarters.
Much sooner than you think. Hopefully. I followed Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and the Space Shuttle programmes. In the 1970s, I was convinced we would have cities on the Moon by the year 2001. I expected myself or my kids to be working on the Moon or LEO by 2018. Disappointed. I hope we can get established out there once more, and kickstart humankind’s expansion to other worlds - as the technologies involved will also make this world a better place - pretty much like past space exploration technologies have done ☺️
How profoundly disappointing. The control panel looks like something out of the 80's with some 50's legacy hardware thrown in for good measure. I do realize there needs to be redundancy and radiation hardening exct and I am a rank ameture. It just seems to me that touch screens and a little newer technology could save weight, time, and money. My new oven looks more high tech and dragon crew seems more like the dircection of the future vs what I saw in this video
To the Moon and back is one thing but that Mars mission will be extremely difficult. The enormous distance and length of time just getting there is just unimaginable. If anything should go wrong outbound that’s a recipe for disaster. We can send machines to Mars and distant planets, no problem. But, a manned mission is entirely different in that a life sustaining environment must be maintained throughout the entire duration. Mars atmosphere is ninety_five percent CO2 and oxygen is a mere trace element. It will take months just to get there and months to return to Earth. Orion is not the Starship Enterprise but we have to start somewhere. I see a very high probability of failure due to the extreme distance, fuel and life support limitations, and the extreme length of time life support must be maintained...
I had to force myself to NOT stop this video before it was over.. As a space faring enthusiast, historian, techno nerd, I am SOOOOOO DISAPPOINTED in NASA right now! This is absolutely pathetic. This is nothing more than an Apollo capsule with new windows. Deep space??? Bring back the shuttle!!! Good God, have we only come this far?? It is incredibly embarrassing to need Russian craft to get to and from the ISS, but if this is NASA's answer... boo. This thing isn't slated to take humans anywhere until the late 2020's …. SpaceX will be doing that in the next couple years!! Thank God for Elon Musk!!!!
Orion is really just a progressive step to reestablish crewed capability to low earth orbit for the United States and for going back to the moon using the same mission profile as Apollo. Beyond that he did mention a "Deep Space Gateway" that Orion will dock with. That's probably where deep space missions to Mars and the asteroids will emanate from once Orion delivers the crew there. Then Orion with its specialized reentry systems is left behind where it will sit and wait while a lighter, specialized spacecraft ferrys the crew to their destination and then back to the Gateway. Then Orion brings the crew back home to earth.
I'm totally with you agwilson! NASA nowadays seems to mutate more to a public relations company with commercials and animations rather than pushing the envelope with new hardware. Well, a nice, pathetic computer animation is so much cheaper than a real flight!
I guess one day all the insight and discoveries that theoretical physicist make in their labs and giant particle accelerators will do away with the current technologies and give man kind a true ability to travel the cosmos. The current state of the art is in essence no different than the first steam train. That is “burn and squirt” This will never “cut the mustard” when it come to the size and distances involved. However I’m sure the work being done and knowledge gained by NASA and the commercial players will play a part though. Let’s hope that man kind survives long enough to put it all to good use.
So, this is it. The best our best and brightest have developed. All of these years, all the decades, the experience, Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, the shuttle, the orbiter, the I.S.S., the EVAs, everything. What the hell are they doing? This is basically an Apollo Command Module. In 1961, no human being had been in Space, within eight years, they were on the Moon! What the hell are they doing?! Where is the daring?! The boldness!? A clear direction! Let's go to Mars!
This, there is nothing innovative about Orion, its just an uprated Apollo capsul. No knew technology no clever design. NASA has had 30 years of experiencw flying space shuttles and 50 years of R&D and the best they come up with us leterally nothing
Exploration 2 module, "Takes humans back to the Moon for the first time since 1972." Unless, of course, SpaceX or the Chinese do it first. Even if Orion does repeat Apollo 8 before BFR is flying, BFR is totally leapfrogging Orion's technology even as we speak. It will be obsolete very shortly after, if not actually before, it ever flies.
They've been working on Orion for well over a DECADE at the point this video was made. I can't believe how basic, unfinished, and crappy it looks. Bare metal and sharp corners everywhere, pipes just slapped onto walls. This is what $20 billion of our tax dollars gets us from Lockheed Martin.
@pjd412 , why would you say only one form will work? So, there can never be any other design of spacecraft? Doesn't the Russian Soyuz bear this out to be false?
I wonder, have you ever considered the possibility of a failure on said touchscreen? If it was all touchscreen, would that not leave the spacecraft uncontrollable? Not to mention, what about an apollo 13-like problem where the astronauts would need to conserve power to make it home safely? digital touchscreen control would just drain the ships' power. Think before you speak.
It doesn't help to make it bigger than it has to be. The launch vehicle can only lift so much weight. A bigger capsule would mean less ability to carry tools, experiments, or rocks back to Earth.
The Orion crew capsule is the most advanced, reusable and good to go crew capsule there is. Why is NASA messing around with SLS ? it is an outdated piece of space junk waiting to happen. Bolt the Orion capsule on top of the Falcon Heavy and bob's your uncle...job done...peace yall.
Falcon Heavy is too small to carry the Orion spacecraft to the Moon since Orion weighs 26 tons and Falcon Heavy can at most carry 20 tons to TLI, and of course it will never be human rated so its a non starter just because of that The only rocket big enough to send 26 tons to the Moon is the SLS, which will also be human rated even on the very first launch
Ha ha. Nice. But yea thats one thing pushed since Regan that I know for sure. Anything trump says you got read, because when he says it it loses coherncy. Like the army, split to make the air force it makes sense to ave a dedicated space force to for a while any way. Army corps of engineers, the air force have done lot of civilian missions. Same will most likely go for space forces. And you got to believe such a military force has been considered by India, China, Russia, its logical. Or maybe I've been awake to long. Have a good night.
Um it's 2019 why are they still designing these tiny space capsules?? This is only a few meters larger then the first one. This type of recycling idea is old. Start over technology is way better advanced for you guys to be making these tiny space capsules using the same design from years ago just with fancier equipment. No matter how much you try to credit yourself it looks very much like the same thing they built years ago. Scrap the whole thing build something NEW and bigger it's ridiculous. This like a iPhone add slap a few new things on the phone and market it as NEW .. call Elon
Because space capsules are the safest and easiest design. The shape alone is passively stable during re entry. Re-entry is a big factor in crewed Spacecraft design, the shape of orion keeps the shockwave where most of the heat would be generated during atmospheric entry as far away from the vehicle as possible.
It's all good but when is NASA going to stop talking and start producing results,we shouldn't be hitching rides from the Russians it's beyond embarrassing.
Probably never. They say 2020,.but they must first solve radiation problems,..meantime they find another third belt,.as seen, al this metal goin trough plasma,.hmm to many x-rays, like be in microwave oven,.what to expect? To many CGI and NASA disney animation
You can't even tell the difference between X-rays, microwaves and cosmic rays, so what you think is based only on ignorance of even basic science and is therefore dismissed as garbage.
So, if I understood correctly, in the current position of the capsule before launch, the astronauts are lying on their back, on what is now the pavement of the capsule. Those aluminium parts we see in the video, is where they should put their legs. Right? But wasn't supposed to be 7 astronauts?
6 astronauts. They put their feet on the metal stuff that looks like a mesh. There are two rows of seats. The second row is below the first row (when the capsule is flying horizontally). www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=653&ei=mXSQXNrUMNKl_QbguJ-4CQ&q=orion+spacecraft+interior&oq=Orion+spacec&gs_l=img.1.1.0l10.3369.11509..15106...0.0..0.71.738.13......2....1..gws-wiz-img.....0..35i39.N9dLgHXeLQg#imgdii=JP_xnjUGfB2deM:&imgrc=AxD9DCNvwDEcQM:
@@tmlrobotics5446 HA! Not as currently designed. It was originally designed to land on land where it would not be exposed to salt water. Now .. it will land on the water.
@@tmlrobotics5446 In an article dated August 2, 2018 NASA Administrator Jim BridenstineIn in response to a question about reusability noted that the Orion spacecraft has some potential for reuse. NASA has designed the deep-space capsule such that its avionics and costly computer boxes can be pulled out and put into new spacecraft, and, eventually, the space agency would like to reuse the Orion structure as well. I don't call this wishful thinking that it has "potential" and pulling out parts for use in another spacecraft a "Reusable spacecraft".
Well this capsule design looks so 1970s, maybe they found some old Apollo drawings laying around and dated the DSKY up a bit? Compared with Dragon capsule this capsule look like stone-age. Well 50s ago NASA was superb, but this is whats their finest now? A XXL-Apollo capsule with some flat screens...sure?
In the 2000s they were looking for designs for their CEV and Some proposals looked like mini shuttles but it was ditched because the engineers decided the apollo capsule shape is the best for the type of mission they were going for
Crazy thing is, we went from not even getting off the ground to landing on the moon in the about the same time it has taken from the shuttle retirement to even getting a crew to fly in this thing. Ugh.
That’s easy lol. We had a massive budget for NASA back then and a motivation to keep ourselves competitively on top of our communist enemies in Russia.
Wow, it's way bigger than Apollo, it almost looks like they could have an airlock in the hatchway. Still, there is a romance to Apollo that will never be beat but here's hoping we get back to the moon in not too long
Question... Why do we need a "Gateway" station at the Moon? Surely a command module can dock directly with a lander and the lander can be fuelled independently once it's back in orbit around the Moon. It seems to me that the "gateway" is completely redundant.
@@Studio23Media I understand what you are saying, but how is that possible? A command module will need a crew to get to the "gateway" in the first place and could just as easily orbit the Moon (and more efficiently, quickly and economically) without it. I'm not arguing against a permanent settlement on the Moon, but I am questioning the need for a gateway as necessary or desirable to make a Moon settlement happen. When you analyse the gateway project, there isn't a single thing that the gateway can do which can't be done more efficiently, quickly, safely and/or economically on Earth, in Earth orbit, or on the surface of the Moon.
@@chrisantoniou4366 Again, the idea is to build a small space station in between the Earth and moon. A translunar bus stop of sorts. I admit I am not qualified to criticize the plan, but I thought it seemed unnecessary at first. But at this point, I'm struggling to even be excited about Artemis at all, thanks to that expensive piece of shit rocket.
@@Studio23Media Well, we certainly agree on the SLS... As for being the most expensive rocket, it will be if it ever gets off the ground, but until then it's the biggest white elephant. On a more serious note, I know what the "gateway" intends to achieve, but no one can explain how anything it will be able to do can't be done quicker, more easily, safer, more efficiently and/or cheaper from the Earth's surface, Earth orbit, or on the Moon's surface. Quite literally a useless, expensive and dangerous piece of kit... which is probably why it is the perfect match for SLS... :D
Ok mr aerospace engineer, let us know when you reveal your own design for the world to see...will you use your real name or youtube handle so you can get the press you will deserve... or are you still playing sci-fi games for idea of actual concepts. This is designed for more than a low earth orbit...or did you miss that part of the Orion Program. You can start your design with a craft that can survive reentry and touchdown Where do you want to put a heat "shield" system? in the astronaut's pants ? THIS IS THE RETURNABLE PART of an expandable system. Remember The LEM ?? It wasnt a bowl now was it,FOOL
Agreed. With this Apollo on Steroids NASA took us back to the 60s with a capsule that last flew 5 years ago as a test and is at least 5 years away from its second test.
I suppose that high tech red hat the guy was wearing protects the astronauts from cosmic rays? No, I get it. I have seen them talk that the Orion capsule is only a transfer vehicle from Earth to the vehicle used to travel to Mars. That vehicle will land on Mars and the centre of that separates while on Mars to blast off to travel all the way back to Earth. Aparently actual NASA engineers want the astronauts to come back home. Unlike private industry that have been designing a one way trip. I can't wait to see what NASA comes up for x-ray cosmic protection by the 2030's, the theoretical time-line of the actual mission. The only viable way is to have a central vehicle core wrapped in heavy thick lead or surrounded by 6 feet of concrete or their drinking water. This design is basically what nuclear submarines use to protect people that man them. So far all they say is it's too expensive to transfer all that weight into Earth orbit. Getting off of Mars would be difficult as well. They sure don't explain this very well. I know all this money that has gone into Orion works well for goiing back to the Moon. There is water on the Moon. Maybe that's how it will happen? Sounds likely to me.
Want to spend a month in that with five or six other people and a porta-potty? In the meantime, Elon Musk is building two Starships each of which will take a hundred people in their own private rooms, to the moon or Mars for less cost than this upgraded Apollo costs to launch. So, IF this thing is ever flyable, we'll have three capsules, Orion, Dragon 2, and whatever Boeing's thing is called. Each carries 7 people max and does about the same thing. Do we really need three versions of the same ship? And why is Orion taking so long? They started developing it way before Dragon or even Boeing's thing. I know this: If it ever does fly, it'll fly on a Falcon 9.
With camera systems having panoramic multi views seems obsolete to putting windows on crafts nowadays. Thinking can be compromised by orbiting debris in space. Just my thoughts!!
Ok, my only question: How come Orion still has lots of physical switches while Crew Dragon has a streamlined touchscreen console that takes up less space?
Orion started developememt many years ago, probably over a decade ago. I don't know how much has changed since it last flew 6 and a half years ago, but peobably mostly the same
This is so cool! Thanks for uploading such a insightful tour of the orion! I've been watching all of the nasa stuff on youtube as research for my space comic! Maybe it'll inspire future astronauts !
Been looking forward to seeing it fly since 2011. Looks like Dragon and Starliner are going to beat Orion to the punch of being the first crewed orbital spacecraft to launch from America since STS-135.
The question I couldn’t help asking when watching this: so decades of engineering, beautiful spacecraft, one flight and you’re going to throw it away, then build another one, throw that one away, and so on?
garbage, poor astronaut they barely have space , the seats remembered me to torture chair and the control board is based from 90s shuttle style , old technology , i hated it from first look.
The shuttle killed alot of people, a marvel of engineering but dangerous. Orion is safer. NASA didn't have much of a choice, the government forced them to.
I would rather pay $50 or $100 to get a 'near real' space flight simulator experience which will not only show me the views of earth from the stratosphere but also views of low orbit fly-by, touchdown on moon, mars and other space wonders. You can make a real size replica of a non flying space capsule - starliner, both interior and exterior, keep it on a mount inside a big elliptical shaped room whose walls and floor are created with ultra high definition infinity view screens mimicking "out of window" 3 dimensional realistic views e.g. space horizon, close up of earth, moon, mars, comets etc in the same way space travelers view it from inside the spacecraft window. With mechanical movements of the craft, pre-recorded scenes and sounds you can recreate the same experience one gets in space i.e. the launch - in flight and touchdown (barring zero gravity) in the same way as actual space flight. #spaceForEveryone Mix of VR (recordings) and Actual reality (sitting inside dummy but moving craft ) creating most realistic space flight experience
if i could live 100 years more, i would ask you to come give me a knock, just to tell me its been postponed for another 5 years by the time nasa figure this out cows will really be able to jump over the moon!!!!
The shuttle design was expensive and built to stay that way possibly retired for that and many more reasons but another was the cargo bay carried many things to space we’ll never know about. The Apollo design was for carrying personnel not equipment and has already tested to be a reliable vehicle with an escape design unlike the shuttles. I find this very interesting but I’m not intrigued enough to get into any STS it’s high risk any way you slice it once you leave earths surface.
This is an increased Apollo capsule for going to orbit (whatever low or high) and returning to Earth the old fashioned way. It may be also reusable. But to claim that this is a “spacecraft” for deep space exploration to me sounds more like a marketing gag. It might be “spacy” but in no way provide for what is required for long term missions. Why would you design a spacecraft with all the earth re-entry features? It is much more easy to design a separate craft for such purpose, which is then only used in space. No, this is just a capsule to go to orbit and return to Earth, maybe go to moon. Flying to Mars with such a can I can’t imagine.
All points well taken. It's like on Apollo. Why take all the propellants and consumables for the return trip and the heat shield and the parachutes down to the lunar surface only to have to lift them back up into lunar orbit again? I suspect Orion is really just a progressive step to reestablish crewed capability to low earth orbit for the United States and for going back to the moon using the same mission profile as Apollo. Beyond that he did mention a "Deep Space Gateway" that Orion will dock with. That's probably where deep space missions to Mars and the asteroids will emanate from once Orion delivers the crew there. Then Orion with its specialized reentry systems is left behind where it will sit and wait while a lighter, specialized spacecraft ferrys the crew to their destination and then back to the Gateway. Then Orion brings the crew back home to earth.
Great question from Hermann and great answer you provided. Makes sense. I was thinking the same thing...this craft would be very unrealistic for long durations. I searched for for a video to see what was inside Orion and found this....expected to see excersize equipment and maybe a mini bar lol. After years of seeing my heros at NASA erode away while the public interest is in shallow crap like the Kardashians and whatever Trump tweeted last night it is nice to see at least some baby steps toward something big again.
i'm sorry, but you all missed the point slightly. Whether you go to the Moon or Mars, you have to take your Reentry-vehicle with you. At least to the orbit around your destination, from where you take a specialized landing craft. But once you are on your way back, you are entering earths atmosphere with extremely high speeds. Orion is designed to withstand the long duration of such a mission into deep space AND to withstand the reentry phase. Therefor it is fair to say it is a space craft for deep space missions.
@@3gunslingers Thanks Keyboard Runner for your points, which I actually noticed also on the NASA commercials. However, I don't get the logic. "I have to take the reentry vehicle with me...", why that? "on your way back, you are entering earths atmosphere with extremely high speeds...", why that? For sure, on the way back to Earth, you have to reenter an Earth orbit but what is forcing you to enter directly Earth atmosphere? Is it not possible to enter a high Earth orbit, then decelerate from to a low Earth orbit, e.g. let's say to dock at the ISS? From there then you could make a controlled landing back to Earth with any available vehicle, not only Orion. Did I overlook something? "Orion is designed to withstand the long duration of such a mission into deep space...", so what? I think even in the NASA commercials you can see that you still need a lot of other equipment for long duration flights and then imagine 4 astronauts living in such a cramped vehicle on their way to e.g. Mars, that's not really fit for the purpose.
@@3gunslingers - It's true that that is how they did it on the Apollo missions. They took the reentry components with them to lunar orbit and back and just immediately reentered by using aerodynamic braking to slow down. But it didn't necessarily have to be done like that. A specialized reentry vehicle could have been left parked in earth orbit and then a specialized ferry spacecraft could have been sent to the moon and back. Of course that would have meant that extra propellants would have to be carried aboard the ferry spacecraft to slow it down and drop it back into earth orbit so it could rendezvous and dock with the reentry vehicle. Exactly how you do anything in space depends on the calculations you make involving the spacecraft's weight and the weight of the propellants. For a moon mission it's probably better to just haul all the reentry components to the moon and back so you can just immediately reenter. This is what they decided to do on Apollo and it is probably what they will do for Orion missions to the moon. However for deep space missions it may turn out to be more efficient to do it differently. There is mention in the video of a "Deep Space Gateway" that Orion will dock with somewhere in the vicinity of the moon. It might make more sense weight-wise to leave the reentry vehicle there and use a specialized ferry vehicle to go from the gateway to deep space and then come back to the gateway again and transfer to the reentry vehicle. All that depends on how the calculations turn out.
I really like that the seats can fold up to give them more space.
Yes. The one thing, why I would never want to go to space is the lack of space.
@@libertas12so many things about space travel give me anxiety I would need like my body weight in xanax for a year long trip.
I dont want to imagine how compact will be the toilet.
@@libertas12
What the guy said about the apollo seats was actually a lie,
the apollo capsule seats could be locked into different positions to allow for more space and maneuverability
Indeed the center seat in the apollo capsule could be removed completely and stowed away, and with the lunar module attached, more "real estate" opened up,
also taking a lack of gravity into account, an additional dimension of space opens up adding more space
Those apollo astronauts had way more space than these chumps made it out to be
@@libertas12 i love space.. I'd be happy to leave earth and never return if I knew the end destination was mars or the moon or orbit or a colony planet
Why does this have onl 10 000 views? it's so interesting to see the interior of this space craft
yes
The minority is not ignorant.
Definitely 👍
Because people don't care about these types of interesting things anymore
This thing looks like an antique compared to the Space x Dragon.
That actually a good thing
Its hilarious to watch people who know nothing about spaceflight criticizing Orion for having buttons and switches on its control panel.
Yeah why on earth would someone want reliable controls that are guaranteed to trigger upon activation and can interface directly with the systems of the vehicle when you can make it 100% touch screen tablet based just because it's "newer"?
Maybe we should get rid of steering wheels on cars too, thats old technology, right?
That was AWESOME! Healthy Sarcasm at its best. Hats off to you, sir.
Finally a good comment
In essence, it's Apollo, but bigger, lighter, and roomier. They've learned the lessons required to have an all around vehicle to go to the moon and Mars, but it's really Apollo. Glad the shuttles are retired, being limited, costly, dangerous space vehicles. They did look cool, but were really impractical for what needs to be accomplished in space.
50 years later Apollo with screens, real advanced…. Smh
No way this thing goes to Mars by itself. You need more room. Imagine being cooped up in this with three other guys on a six month journey to Mars. You need more space for storage and better sleeping quarters.
Too bad it costs $8 billion and a disposable rocket to get this thing into space. That's unacceptable in 2022.
@@Studio23Media 🤓
@@njengakim They will have additional habitat module, which I think will increase their space at least thrice
Today is sept 14,2018....,,when will this fly to orbit with men ? I'm 66. Get it going.
Gary Pugh lool
Probably not until after 2020
2023 is the year + 1.......... decade. LMFAO
I'm 54 and watched the moon landing in '69. I'm still waiting for NASA to get that far again... Elon's people will leave the light on for them.....
Much sooner than you think. Hopefully. I followed Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and the Space Shuttle programmes. In the 1970s, I was convinced we would have cities on the Moon by the year 2001. I expected myself or my kids to be working on the Moon or LEO by 2018. Disappointed. I hope we can get established out there once more, and kickstart humankind’s expansion to other worlds - as the technologies involved will also make this world a better place - pretty much like past space exploration technologies have done ☺️
I call this Educational Quality Content
i call this misleading education and nasa magic,.i surpised, i cant see scotch tape
I call this "A guy who I wouldn't trust to sweep a floor correctly" explains the inside of a claustrophobic death trap.
How profoundly disappointing. The control panel looks like something out of the 80's with some 50's legacy hardware thrown in for good measure. I do realize there needs to be redundancy and radiation hardening exct and I am a rank ameture. It just seems to me that touch screens and a little newer technology could save weight, time, and money. My new oven looks more high tech and dragon crew seems more like the dircection of the future vs what I saw in this video
To the Moon and back is one thing but that Mars mission will be extremely difficult. The enormous distance and length of time just getting there is just unimaginable. If anything should go wrong outbound that’s a recipe for disaster. We can send machines to Mars and distant planets, no problem. But, a manned mission is entirely different in that a life sustaining environment must be maintained throughout the entire duration. Mars atmosphere is ninety_five percent CO2 and oxygen is a mere trace element. It will take months just to get there and months to return to Earth. Orion is not the Starship Enterprise but we have to start somewhere. I see a very high probability of failure due to the extreme distance, fuel and life support limitations, and the extreme length of time life support must be maintained...
If NASA needs some "live ballast" to test these with, sign me up!
I had to force myself to NOT stop this video before it was over.. As a space faring enthusiast, historian, techno nerd, I am SOOOOOO DISAPPOINTED in NASA right now! This is absolutely pathetic. This is nothing more than an Apollo capsule with new windows. Deep space??? Bring back the shuttle!!! Good God, have we only come this far?? It is incredibly embarrassing to need Russian craft to get to and from the ISS, but if this is NASA's answer... boo. This thing isn't slated to take humans anywhere until the late 2020's …. SpaceX will be doing that in the next couple years!! Thank God for Elon Musk!!!!
Orion is really just a progressive step to reestablish crewed capability to low earth orbit for the United States and for going back to the moon using the same mission profile as Apollo. Beyond that he did mention a "Deep Space Gateway" that Orion will dock with. That's probably where deep space missions to Mars and the asteroids will emanate from once Orion delivers the crew there. Then Orion with its specialized reentry systems is left behind where it will sit and wait while a lighter, specialized spacecraft ferrys the crew to their destination and then back to the Gateway. Then Orion brings the crew back home to earth.
Maybe Musk can save even more time and re purpose that rescue submarine he built. Ha ha ha.
So you think the Space shuttle could land on the moon or mars? I didn't know they had a runway on the Moon ahaahaha You are killing me.
I'm totally with you agwilson! NASA nowadays seems to mutate more to a public relations company with commercials and animations rather than pushing the envelope with new hardware. Well, a nice, pathetic computer animation is so much cheaper than a real flight!
you are so right....
Nope! Too small for even an hour. This is for women and men braver than me.
@Good Krypollo I could do it I think
I could survive 120 years in there
I guess one day all the insight and discoveries that theoretical physicist make in their labs and giant particle accelerators will do away with the current technologies and give man kind a true ability to travel the cosmos.
The current state of the art is in essence no different than the first steam train. That is “burn and squirt”
This will never “cut the mustard” when it come to the size and distances involved.
However I’m sure the work being done and knowledge gained by NASA and the commercial players will play a part though.
Let’s hope that man kind survives long enough to put it all to good use.
Engineers with limited volcabulary. The word he's looking for (in the first minute or so) is "Ergonomics" !
So, this is it. The best our best and brightest have developed. All of these years, all the decades, the experience, Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, the shuttle, the orbiter, the I.S.S., the EVAs, everything. What the hell are they doing? This is basically an Apollo Command Module. In 1961, no human being had been in Space, within eight years, they were on the Moon! What the hell are they doing?! Where is the daring?! The boldness!? A clear direction! Let's go to Mars!
This, there is nothing innovative about Orion, its just an uprated Apollo capsul. No knew technology no clever design. NASA has had 30 years of experiencw flying space shuttles and 50 years of R&D and the best they come up with us leterally nothing
Russians still use Soyuz, Apollo is a tried and true design
Exploration 2 module, "Takes humans back to the Moon for the first time since 1972." Unless, of course, SpaceX or the Chinese do it first. Even if Orion does repeat Apollo 8 before BFR is flying, BFR is totally leapfrogging Orion's technology even as we speak. It will be obsolete very shortly after, if not actually before, it ever flies.
0:28 “human factors Experiments” Translation: we’re in the process of idiot-proofing the capsule.
I would never want to go into space as I couldn’t tolerate the poor toilet/ shower facilities.
This video rocks!!!
Amazing that someone that is so space illiterate is a managing editor of a space publication.
That dude is kneeling down. I don't know how 4 people can fit in there not going crazy.
Interesting they can make larger windows so strong, what are they made of ?
Lol “on the mars”
This is kind of disappointing. When I was a kid I thought that we’d have Sci-Fi style ships by now. We are progressing very slowly.
They've been working on Orion for well over a DECADE at the point this video was made. I can't believe how basic, unfinished, and crappy it looks. Bare metal and sharp corners everywhere, pipes just slapped onto walls. This is what $20 billion of our tax dollars gets us from Lockheed Martin.
This is just a training mockup for the astronauts to train in, thats why its so bear bones, the actual spacecraft interior is much more complete
A very nice apollo capsule 😎
Seriously. That's basically what this is. 50 years later, we're back where we started.
@pjd412 , why would you say only one form will work? So, there can never be any other design of spacecraft? Doesn't the Russian Soyuz bear this out to be false?
@@colinmontgomery5492 The Russian soyuz reentry module is the same shape just smaller.
It's almost identical to it
@@adamanderson3042, they both have bluff re-entry portions, but I would not describe the Soyuz module as conical.
Good lord replace all that crap with a touch screen. NASA design is crap, that craft looks like it's from 1985
I wonder, have you ever considered the possibility of a failure on said touchscreen? If it was all touchscreen, would that not leave the spacecraft uncontrollable? Not to mention, what about an apollo 13-like problem where the astronauts would need to conserve power to make it home safely? digital touchscreen control would just drain the ships' power. Think before you speak.
After so many decades with so many advances we build a capsule just slightly bigger than the original one ...
Were did you spend your money ?
It doesn't help to make it bigger than it has to be. The launch vehicle can only lift so much weight. A bigger capsule would mean less ability to carry tools, experiments, or rocks back to Earth.
How will you survive trip to Mars in something so small. it’s like they went backwards from the space shuttle.
Disappointing!
It's a command module. On a trip to Mars, it would be the command center for a large, modular vessel.
@@niallkinsella2687 yeah, sort of like a space station that can travel to mars
Mmmm. Its the same as the Apollo capsule. No one could survive more than a couple of days in that without going crazy.
@@digdougedy Its meant to dock to a habitation module for interplanetary or long duration flights.
I wonder if Howard Wolowitz built the toilet?
The Orion crew capsule is the most advanced, reusable and good to go crew capsule there is. Why is NASA messing around with SLS ? it is an outdated piece of space junk waiting to happen. Bolt the Orion capsule on top of the Falcon Heavy and bob's your uncle...job done...peace yall.
Falcon Heavy is too small to carry the Orion spacecraft to the Moon since Orion weighs 26 tons and Falcon Heavy can at most carry 20 tons to TLI, and of course it will never be human rated so its a non starter just because of that
The only rocket big enough to send 26 tons to the Moon is the SLS, which will also be human rated even on the very first launch
Where to put the cannons for the Space Force?
You watch too much Star Trek. hahhaha
No out dated Cannons will be used in space force. Particle Energy beams and Nuclear fusion will be use?
😂
Ha ha. Nice. But yea thats one thing pushed since Regan that I know for sure. Anything trump says you got read, because when he says it it loses coherncy. Like the army, split to make the air force it makes sense to ave a dedicated space force to for a while any way. Army corps of engineers, the air force have done lot of civilian missions. Same will most likely go for space forces. And you got to believe such a military force has been considered by India, China, Russia, its logical. Or maybe I've been awake to long. Have a good night.
@@theundead1600 Isn't a Space Force a violation of the Outer Space Treaty of 1967? No space based weapon systems it says.
Is too simple! But if apollo work i think this is gona work too
To the moon yes, to mars no.
Is that dude's head that big or is that a toy hard hat?
Going to the moon is waste of time - "Done that".
It is so 20th century, so yesteryear...
Um it's 2019 why are they still designing these tiny space capsules?? This is only a few meters larger then the first one. This type of recycling idea is old. Start over technology is way better advanced for you guys to be making these tiny space capsules using the same design from years ago just with fancier equipment. No matter how much you try to credit yourself it looks very much like the same thing they built years ago. Scrap the whole thing build something NEW and bigger it's ridiculous. This like a iPhone add slap a few new things on the phone and market it as NEW .. call Elon
Tiny? This space craft is 5m in diameter and 7m long
Because space capsules are the safest and easiest design. The shape alone is passively stable during re entry. Re-entry is a big factor in crewed Spacecraft design, the shape of orion keeps the shockwave where most of the heat would be generated during atmospheric entry as far away from the vehicle as possible.
They already did... it was called the space shuttle.
Second, you need a light spacecraft to actually send humans practically to the moon
It's all good but when is NASA going to stop talking and start producing results,we shouldn't be hitching rides from the Russians it's beyond embarrassing.
Agreed….enough already. Its getting kind of pathetic.
Well, we could go a lot faster if we were to increase space funding to 1960's levels like NASA had for Apollo. Try writing to your congressmen.
Pay up...it isnt free.
The results is the Orion capsule ready to be tested.
Tests are necessary.
Yes!, Yes when are we going to reverse yet another fail Obama policy by sending this in to space?
space x is years ahead
nasa espacial é d+ amo todos os filmes queria trabalhar lá.
Probably never. They say 2020,.but they must first solve radiation problems,..meantime they find another third belt,.as seen, al this metal goin trough plasma,.hmm to many x-rays, like be in microwave oven,.what to expect? To many CGI and NASA disney animation
You can't even tell the difference between X-rays, microwaves and cosmic rays, so what you think is based only on ignorance of even basic science and is therefore dismissed as garbage.
The controls operate the Reaction Control System.
So, if I understood correctly, in the current position of the capsule before launch, the astronauts are lying on their back, on what is now the pavement of the capsule. Those aluminium parts we see in the video, is where they should put their legs. Right?
But wasn't supposed to be 7 astronauts?
6 astronauts. They put their feet on the metal stuff that looks like a mesh. There are two rows of seats. The second row is below the first row (when the capsule is flying horizontally).
www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=653&ei=mXSQXNrUMNKl_QbguJ-4CQ&q=orion+spacecraft+interior&oq=Orion+spacec&gs_l=img.1.1.0l10.3369.11509..15106...0.0..0.71.738.13......2....1..gws-wiz-img.....0..35i39.N9dLgHXeLQg#imgdii=JP_xnjUGfB2deM:&imgrc=AxD9DCNvwDEcQM:
Originally 6 astronauts for ISS missions but that was cancelled in favour of commercial crew in 2010.
Will the Orion capsule be reusable?
yes
@@tmlrobotics5446 HA! Not as currently designed. It was originally designed to land on land where it would not be exposed to salt water. Now .. it will land on the water.
@@TheFiscallySound still designed to be reusable
@@tmlrobotics5446 In an article dated August 2, 2018 NASA Administrator Jim BridenstineIn in response to a question about reusability noted that the Orion spacecraft has some potential for reuse. NASA has designed the deep-space capsule such that its avionics and costly computer boxes can be pulled out and put into new spacecraft, and, eventually, the space agency would like to reuse the Orion structure as well.
I don't call this wishful thinking that it has "potential" and pulling out parts for use in another spacecraft a "Reusable spacecraft".
Yes, It can be dropped many times from a C 130.
Nice looking microwave
Well this capsule design looks so 1970s, maybe they found some old Apollo drawings laying around and dated the DSKY up a bit? Compared with Dragon capsule this capsule look like stone-age. Well 50s ago NASA was superb, but this is whats their finest now? A XXL-Apollo capsule with some flat screens...sure?
In the 2000s they were looking for designs for their CEV and Some proposals looked like mini shuttles but it was ditched because the engineers decided the apollo capsule shape is the best for the type of mission they were going for
Crazy thing is, we went from not even getting off the ground to landing on the moon in the about the same time it has taken from the shuttle retirement to even getting a crew to fly in this thing. Ugh.
That’s easy lol. We had a massive budget for NASA back then and a motivation to keep ourselves competitively on top of our communist enemies in Russia.
Wow, it's way bigger than Apollo, it almost looks like they could have an airlock in the hatchway.
Still, there is a romance to Apollo that will never be beat but here's hoping we get back to the moon in not too long
It's never leaving the ground with crew.
It all looks so spartin and primative even!
I hope all who travel in this are safe!
Primitive? How so?
Es muy pequeña para un viaje a Marte .
Dante Bregan Por eso usarán algo más para Marte.
Why are they using a capsule instead of something like a new version of the space shuttle?
You can't land the space shuttle on the Moon or the Mars.
@@autumn702 neither with this one...
It was too heavy to actually go to the moon, its heat shirld was not strong enough and it was not as safe as orion
Question... Why do we need a "Gateway" station at the Moon? Surely a command module can dock directly with a lander and the lander can be fuelled independently once it's back in orbit around the Moon. It seems to me that the "gateway" is completely redundant.
The idea is to have a more permanent "command module," as the goal is to establish permanent settlement on the moon.
@@Studio23Media I understand what you are saying, but how is that possible? A command module will need a crew to get to the "gateway" in the first place and could just as easily orbit the Moon (and more efficiently, quickly and economically) without it. I'm not arguing against a permanent settlement on the Moon, but I am questioning the need for a gateway as necessary or desirable to make a Moon settlement happen.
When you analyse the gateway project, there isn't a single thing that the gateway can do which can't be done more efficiently, quickly, safely and/or economically on Earth, in Earth orbit, or on the surface of the Moon.
@@chrisantoniou4366 Again, the idea is to build a small space station in between the Earth and moon. A translunar bus stop of sorts. I admit I am not qualified to criticize the plan, but I thought it seemed unnecessary at first. But at this point, I'm struggling to even be excited about Artemis at all, thanks to that expensive piece of shit rocket.
@@Studio23Media Well, we certainly agree on the SLS... As for being the most expensive rocket, it will be if it ever gets off the ground, but until then it's the biggest white elephant.
On a more serious note, I know what the "gateway" intends to achieve, but no one can explain how anything it will be able to do can't be done quicker, more easily, safer, more efficiently and/or cheaper from the Earth's surface, Earth orbit, or on the Moon's surface. Quite literally a useless, expensive and dangerous piece of kit... which is probably why it is the perfect match for SLS... :D
Ok, well done NASA. Who is getting this capsule into space?
Mr Musk or the Russians?
Neither...it will launch on NASA's own new Space Launch System rocket.
The space program continues its technological reversal-low earth orbit with the shuttle and now back to the goldfish bowl space craft....
Ok mr aerospace engineer, let us know when you reveal your own design for the world to see...will you use your real name or youtube handle so you can get the press you will deserve... or are you still playing sci-fi games for idea of actual concepts. This is designed for more than a low earth orbit...or did you miss that part of the Orion Program. You can start your design with a craft that can survive reentry and touchdown Where do you want to put a heat "shield" system? in the astronaut's pants ? THIS IS THE RETURNABLE PART of an expandable system. Remember The LEM ?? It wasnt a bowl now was it,FOOL
@@dgrantreiter LEM?
Lunar excursion module.
Agreed. With this Apollo on Steroids NASA took us back to the 60s with a capsule that last flew 5 years ago as a test and is at least 5 years away from its second test.
I suppose that high tech red hat the guy was wearing protects the astronauts from cosmic rays? No, I get it. I have seen them talk that the Orion capsule is only a transfer vehicle from Earth to the vehicle used to travel to Mars. That vehicle will land on Mars and the centre of that separates while on Mars to blast off to travel all the way back to Earth. Aparently actual NASA engineers want the astronauts to come back home. Unlike private industry that have been designing a one way trip. I can't wait to see what NASA comes up for x-ray cosmic protection by the 2030's, the theoretical time-line of the actual mission. The only viable way is to have a central vehicle core wrapped in heavy thick lead or surrounded by 6 feet of concrete or their drinking water. This design is basically what nuclear submarines use to protect people that man them. So far all they say is it's too expensive to transfer all that weight into Earth orbit. Getting off of Mars would be difficult as well. They sure don't explain this very well. I know all this money that has gone into Orion works well for goiing back to the Moon. There is water on the Moon. Maybe that's how it will happen? Sounds likely to me.
"Translational hand controllers", instead of "joy-sticks". Typical bureaucratic crap.
Golly Jee Whiz? Ain't gonna happen. Going back to the moon I mean.
I guess I gotta be the guy. It's really kind of underwhelming, 50+ years since we walked on the moon and that's it?
Will the astronauts wear a red helmet like this guy?
It's 2022 right now and I heard they were launching a live stream of the sls launching to the moon in Sept,8 2022
Wow this was a really fantastic video. I always wondered how the orion capsule looks like from the inside. Thanks for providing quality content
Want to spend a month in that with five or six other people and a porta-potty? In the meantime, Elon Musk is building two Starships each of which will take a hundred people in their own private rooms, to the moon or Mars for less cost than this upgraded Apollo costs to launch. So, IF this thing is ever flyable, we'll have three capsules, Orion, Dragon 2, and whatever Boeing's thing is called. Each carries 7 people max and does about the same thing. Do we really need three versions of the same ship? And why is Orion taking so long? They started developing it way before Dragon or even Boeing's thing. I know this: If it ever does fly, it'll fly on a Falcon 9.
Yeh ok
whens the next test flight
Q3 2020
*Q4
Sucks this thing won't fly again till 2025. Ridiculous.
🇧🇷
What if The Orion Capsules Failed In Space Due To Apollo 13
Those sharp and hard things ...nobody would want to get tumbling
no cushions on the seats? crews can sit on the pad for hours waiting to launch
Same all same just a little shinier.
And the taxpayers have been billed 17 billion so far to develop that stupid little capsule . Truly incredible
With camera systems having panoramic multi views seems obsolete to putting windows on crafts nowadays. Thinking can be compromised by orbiting debris in space. Just my thoughts!!
Cameras add weight, which make the spacecraft heavier, and therefore you need a bigger rocket.
Ok, my only question: How come Orion still has lots of physical switches while Crew Dragon has a streamlined touchscreen console that takes up less space?
Orion started developememt many years ago, probably over a decade ago.
I don't know how much has changed since it last flew 6 and a half years ago, but peobably mostly the same
physical switches are much safer than digital ones, in case of an emergency like apollo 13, they dont need power to use them
Switches are much more desirable imo, especially for redundancy if screens go offline
This is so cool! Thanks for uploading such a insightful tour of the orion! I've been watching all of the nasa stuff on youtube as research for my space comic! Maybe it'll inspire future astronauts !
Nice but Dragon is much better.
Deep space gate way?
Been looking forward to seeing it fly since 2011. Looks like Dragon and Starliner are going to beat Orion to the punch of being the first crewed orbital spacecraft to launch from America since STS-135.
And you’d be right
Starliner yet to do it but will do crewed flight before Orion
We went from an Ordutal Capsule to a fleet of Space Shuttles back to an orbital capsule again. "Progress"?
There's a reason they returned to the capsule design. Remember Columbia? You want that to happen again? NASA certainly doesn't.
Do they have an SCE to AUX switch?
lol if you think any human is ever going back to the moon anytime soon..
It’s all fake EARTHS FLAT
😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The question I couldn’t help asking when watching this: so decades of engineering, beautiful spacecraft, one flight and you’re going to throw it away, then build another one, throw that one away, and so on?
V 14 ikr but at least the capsule is reusable :)
@@a7xgh442 No! Not as currently designed. It is now going to be exposed to salt water when it lands.
TheFiscallySound oh oops
@@TheFiscallySound They will be eventually reusable, its confirmed.
Orion is pretty much second reusable american space capsule
garbage, poor astronaut they barely have space , the seats remembered
me to torture chair and the control board is based from 90s shuttle style , old technology , i hated it from first look.
Learn more about space engineering it before hating it.
4:50 nice windows, earth rise?
Let's see if they fake it again.
This shit ever going to get off the ground?
Russia: right that down right that down
Disgusting NASA retired the shuttle, and leaving us years without a manned space vehicle
The shuttle killed alot of people, a marvel of engineering but dangerous. Orion is safer. NASA didn't have much of a choice, the government forced them to.
I am not hyped about space x anymore... However Thats what space x introduced in 2012. Computer flown with human interaction.
I would rather pay $50 or $100 to get a 'near real' space flight simulator experience which will not only show me the views of earth from the stratosphere but also views of low orbit fly-by, touchdown on moon, mars and other space wonders. You can make a real size replica of a non flying space capsule - starliner, both interior and exterior, keep it on a mount inside a big elliptical shaped room whose walls and floor are created with ultra high definition infinity view screens mimicking "out of window" 3 dimensional realistic views e.g. space horizon, close up of earth, moon, mars, comets etc in the same way space travelers view it from inside the spacecraft window. With mechanical movements of the craft, pre-recorded scenes and sounds you can recreate the same experience one gets in space i.e. the launch - in flight and touchdown (barring zero gravity) in the same way as actual space flight. #spaceForEveryone Mix of VR (recordings) and Actual reality (sitting inside dummy but moving craft ) creating most realistic space flight experience
Im excited for the future
I think we'll be talking Starship when going to mars. This is certainly dependent on continued trajectory of success with Starship.
if i could live 100 years more, i would ask you to come give me a knock, just to tell me its been postponed for another 5 years by the time nasa figure this out cows will really be able to jump over the moon!!!!
The shuttle design was expensive and built to stay that way possibly retired for that and many more reasons but another was the cargo bay carried many things to space we’ll never know about. The Apollo design was for carrying personnel not equipment and has already tested to be a reliable vehicle with an escape design unlike the shuttles. I find this very interesting but I’m not intrigued enough to get into any STS it’s high risk any way you slice it once you leave earths surface.
This is an increased Apollo capsule for going to orbit (whatever low or high) and returning to Earth the old fashioned way. It may be also reusable. But to claim that this is a “spacecraft” for deep space exploration to me sounds more like a marketing gag. It might be “spacy” but in no way provide for what is required for long term missions. Why would you design a spacecraft with all the earth re-entry features? It is much more easy to design a separate craft for such purpose, which is then only used in space.
No, this is just a capsule to go to orbit and return to Earth, maybe go to moon. Flying to Mars with such a can I can’t imagine.
All points well taken. It's like on Apollo. Why take all the propellants and consumables for the return trip and the heat shield and the parachutes down to the lunar surface only to have to lift them back up into lunar orbit again? I suspect Orion is really just a progressive step to reestablish crewed capability to low earth orbit for the United States and for going back to the moon using the same mission profile as Apollo. Beyond that he did mention a "Deep Space Gateway" that Orion will dock with. That's probably where deep space missions to Mars and the asteroids will emanate from once Orion delivers the crew there. Then Orion with its specialized reentry systems is left behind where it will sit and wait while a lighter, specialized spacecraft ferrys the crew to their destination and then back to the Gateway. Then Orion brings the crew back home to earth.
Great question from Hermann and great answer you provided. Makes sense. I was thinking the same thing...this craft would be very unrealistic for long durations. I searched for for a video to see what was inside Orion and found this....expected to see excersize equipment and maybe a mini bar lol. After years of seeing my heros at NASA erode away while the public interest is in shallow crap like the Kardashians and whatever Trump tweeted last night it is nice to see at least some baby steps toward something big again.
i'm sorry, but you all missed the point slightly.
Whether you go to the Moon or Mars, you have to take your Reentry-vehicle with you. At least to the orbit around your destination, from where you take a specialized landing craft.
But once you are on your way back, you are entering earths atmosphere with extremely high speeds.
Orion is designed to withstand the long duration of such a mission into deep space AND to withstand the reentry phase.
Therefor it is fair to say it is a space craft for deep space missions.
@@3gunslingers
Thanks Keyboard Runner for your points, which I actually noticed also on the NASA commercials. However, I don't get the logic. "I have to take the reentry vehicle with me...", why that? "on your way back, you are entering earths atmosphere with extremely high speeds...", why that? For sure, on the way back to Earth, you have to reenter an Earth orbit but what is forcing you to enter directly Earth atmosphere? Is it not possible to enter a high Earth orbit, then decelerate from to a low Earth orbit, e.g. let's say to dock at the ISS? From there then you could make a controlled landing back to Earth with any available vehicle, not only Orion. Did I overlook something?
"Orion is designed to withstand the long duration of such a mission into deep space...", so what? I think even in the NASA commercials you can see that you still need a lot of other equipment for long duration flights and then imagine 4 astronauts living in such a cramped vehicle on their way to e.g. Mars, that's not really fit for the purpose.
@@3gunslingers - It's true that that is how they did it on the Apollo missions. They took the reentry components with them to lunar orbit and back and just immediately reentered by using aerodynamic braking to slow down. But it didn't necessarily have to be done like that. A specialized reentry vehicle could have been left parked in earth orbit and then a specialized ferry spacecraft could have been sent to the moon and back. Of course that would have meant that extra propellants would have to be carried aboard the ferry spacecraft to slow it down and drop it back into earth orbit so it could rendezvous and dock with the reentry vehicle.
Exactly how you do anything in space depends on the calculations you make involving the spacecraft's weight and the weight of the propellants. For a moon mission it's probably better to just haul all the reentry components to the moon and back so you can just immediately reenter. This is what they decided to do on Apollo and it is probably what they will do for Orion missions to the moon. However for deep space missions it may turn out to be more efficient to do it differently. There is mention in the video of a "Deep Space Gateway" that Orion will dock with somewhere in the vicinity of the moon. It might make more sense weight-wise to leave the reentry vehicle there and use a specialized ferry vehicle to go from the gateway to deep space and then come back to the gateway again and transfer to the reentry vehicle. All that depends on how the calculations turn out.
Great video, thank you! My only complaint is the shaky part in beginning...I'd love to see that part of the capsule in focus
"*high pitched* great!"
seats look really uncomfortable
They gonna use this as a submarine to provide another episode on taxpayers ....what a joke